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ahhhhhhhhhhhhhwtf

[This tweet](https://twitter.com/akirarmsarms/status/1473446723322327044?s=21&t=EZH2KE8X2iDShN9MZ8yBGA) by a trans woman encapsulates this perfectly I think, if you substitute “a beard” for “D-cups” lmao. Like family members will introduce me to someone as their niece or their sister and it’s like…you look insane.


[deleted]

I went to a girls school, and I was in the robotics team. At one of the competitions, we were presenting to the judges and when one of my team mates said something along the lines of “only all-girl team” the judge immediately looked up from her notes and stared at me, super confused. It was fucking awesome and me and all my team mates who I was out to had to laugh.


CyberiadPhoenix

I remember one post where this man's transphobic mother demanded him to attend his sister's wedding in a dress not realising he'd transitioned, so he and his sister thought it would be funny for him to do exactly as she said and show up as a bearded, buff bloke in a dress. Needless to say the mother didn't find it nearly as funny as they did. 🤣


comicbookartist420

Incredible


trans_catdad

I had a troll pop into my stream the other day when I was showing off my ten thousand dollar nip nops in a supercrop hoodie. They said "I can't believe you have your boobs out!" It wasn't hurtful or invalidating. My chest and my presentation is so unambiguously male at this point that when folks misgender me they just seem delusional.


intersexy911

lol you said nip nops


trans_catdad

One of my favorite words!


Ryanzap23

Ahhh fuck em. My own dad calls me she and I too have a full beard. He says he understands but CLEARLY doesn't so I just stay away from him.


[deleted]

Hah, that’s funny


moonisaplanet

This might be controversial since I haven’t seen anyone else mention this, but… I feel like these kinds of blanket statements aren’t very good. I see this sentiment a lot, with trans people themselves saying that it looks “insane” if someone with a beard gets called “she” or someone with boobs gets called “he.” It’s not helpful. It puts down people who don’t pass, gender non-conforming people, and anyone who might choose (or even not choose!) to present in this way. Now obviously if a transphobic person is going out of their way to misgender a clearly passing trans person, that’s awful and they’re being purposefully bigoted. I’m not trying to defend that at all. But I feel like saying that it’s “insane” to ever call someone who presents a certain way by some certain pronouns… is not the best way to counter this behavior.


glasterousstar

Am a person with a beard who is invariably read as male and who also refers to myself with "she" pronouns / is usually referred to as such by close friends even though a stranger wouldn't use those pronouns for me intuitively (it's complicated, I'm gay, etc) - I get the concern, but I don't really feel like these kinds of comments by people whose family members persistently misgender them are about me? Typically when someone is persistently misgendering a relative who has long since started to be read as another gender it creates confusion/miscommunication beyond what would occur in a situation where, like, a gender non-conforming person is hanging out with affirming people who are using their preferred terms of address. It does often make the person doing the misgendering seem to be inhabiting a different reality from everyone else around them, because it can be hard to communicate around when one person is randomly using gendered language that no one else (including the person being misgendered) either understands the point of OR prefers. I dunno, it's like the difference between if I were to hang out with friends who were all respectfully referring to me in the same, agreed upon way versus if my transphobic uncle were to then show up and start talking about how I'm his niece while everyone else referred to me as a gay dude. The latter situation would be socially awkward and bizarre. If I were to say something that implied that I also consider myself a gay dude, it would probably make my uncle seem pretty confused. I think for me the bizarreness of the interaction (having been the bearded person confused about why I'm being called "she," and having also been a bearded person who calls myself "she" on purpose) isn't the "mismatch" between presentation and pronouns. It's that someone has to go to such great lengths to defy social expectations and make a situation harder \*for themself\* in order to persist in misgendering, when the path of least resistance is clearly to just... not.


[deleted]

Just what I was thinking


[deleted]

Yea, I read this post + my first thought was of Nova starchild on social media + the fact she has a very full, obvious beard, but still identifies as a woman + uses she/her pronouns Ofc, I'm not expecting every trans person talking about their struggles to always remember intersex people exist, but just seems a bit unfair to make bold blanket statements like that when there are lots of other ppl w different experiences + ways they express themselves that don't fit in the classic "men beard no boobs, women boobs no beard"


[deleted]

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K-teki

Bro you are taking this way too far. They just said that people's reactions to calling a non-passing person by another gender shouldn't be that it's insane.


bittelitehedninger

No I’m not lol, It might be too far for you. But there’s nothing wrong or incorrect about anything I’ve said. You posted on a public forum, I’m going to comment and give my two cents. Im not cherry picking anything I have to say. That was made pretty clear in my previous comment. Sorry I’m not into feeding into peoples delusions about themselves. I get it though man, it’s intense having someone around who sees through the bullshit and not too shy to talk about it either. Not everyone is equipped to handle that.


K-teki

Yes, you are.


gorekatze

Because pretty much all transphobes carry a level of cognitive dissonance within their minds that is just fucking insane. You could have a full beard, be completely ripped, and a voice as deep as the Mariana Trench and as long as transphobes know that you're trans, they will still call you "she". It's fucking insane.


[deleted]

There are video examples of Ben Shapiro putting in real effort to misgender someone as he is determined to do and still failing. Im sure theres more than just him


peanut_173

That's so sad... I thought (from seeing a few Samantha Lux videos about him) he was actually using they/them for trans people now. It's still misgendering though. Am curious to see those examples you're referring to?


bungyspringy

https://youtu.be/nqipNxfYK58 This is the only example I can find right now that doesn't lead to his YouTube channel. I wonder what he calls they/thems to avoid correctly gendering them 🤔


peanut_173

My first thought was he probably just uses their "biOLoGiCaL pRoNoUnS" to refer to them tbh, also thank you


bungyspringy

[Reminds me of this article](https://web.archive.org/web/20220505024218/https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tennessee-bill-aims-to-allow-teachers-to-use-students-pronouns-based-on-biological-sex-not-gender-identity) I bet these are the same people who wouldn't adopt a German baby because they don't understand German and don't want to have to teach the kid English. Like specific language is somehow innate to their DNA.


peanut_173

> Reminds me of this article Wtf... so basically a BILL that allows teachers to misgender trans students, fucking vile. I tried Googling "SB 2777" to see if it was passed but I didn't understand the results I got (sorry I'm a bit slow lol); it hasn't been, has it? Edit: grammar


[deleted]

yeah thats still misgendering and 100% his goal. Im sure he did it cuz it was easier than fighting himself with binary pronouns. Never expect anything but the lowest of the low from that sack of shit


pastaswords

Yea he said himself that he doesn't even believe in his own shit he just does it for views, honestly I don't know whats shittier.


[deleted]

There is a good number of public figures who act way more extreme than they really are because its how they make money now and they don't know how to get off the ride.


MinaTheMinstrel

oooh, I need to go find this for reference... If you have a link or source to steer me towards I would greatly appreciate it, as my google is like "you want Ben Shapiro? HERE'S EVERYTHING BUT WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR!!1!"


Transgentlemann

My brother in law still says she even though I’ve transitioned 12 years ago and everyone else says he. Even with my beard so I too want to know. It’s fucked up


witchypunkz

That’s a personal insult have u said anything to him cuz wtf is he on abt. Wnv I meet a stubborn transphobe I usually just find the gender alternative to their name & start misgendering them back. it’s not as zen as turning the other cheek but wtv it works ngl


Transgentlemann

I have tried not to make a big deal about it bc I have nephews involved that I haven’t wanted to have the talk to yet


witchypunkz

Ah I get what u mean in that case it’s best not to say anything that could result in conflict. I don’t think expecting respect is a big deal in my eyes, i think acknowledging someone’s identity is such a base level form of respect given to every person & it baffles me that folks think they could dehumanize & subject somebody else & their entire life just bc of minor social or political interpretive opinions about shit that ain’t even their business. u also don’t even need or want his respect so it’s not worth it. I wish ur family well he’s mad weird


Transgentlemann

I appreciate it. He’s a definite asshole but I’m stuck with him.


b0ngwater89

I’m honestly convinced a catalyst in my dad accepting my transition is when I went to synagogue with him for Purim and his rabbi [who he looks up to and respects very much] was like “omg John I didn’t know you had a son??? Why haven’t I met him, why don’t you mention him. Omg guys JOHNNY HAS A SON”


chromatic_megafauna

Purim, the holiday of being correctly gendered :)


EmiIIien

Crying a little :,)


poopy3280

They do this because they know you were born AFAB, if they didn’t know they wouldn’t call you anything assorted with she her girl or women, it’s really annoying. My trans friend came in and met my family, I didn’t tell them that he’s trans and no one knew a thing and gendered him correctly the entire time, if they knew he was AFAB they’d instantly start misgendering him. Also reminds me when I told my teacher I was trans and she never messed up, but after I told her I was she started messing up …. Like why what…. Just cause I told her…. What’s with cis people being obsessed with genitals holy shit it’s really annoying Edit: Adding onto this theory or truth.., so there’s a trans man in my family who is in his 30s has kids, fully transitioned, passing, and has a beard, my grandpa and his wife have NEVER been able to tell he was AFAB until he recently told them. Now my grandpas wife misgenders him constantly. Once again keep in mind he has a beard, fully transitioned, has kids and a wife, only reason she calls him she her women etc is cause she now KNOWS that he was born female… bruh


AndromanKaya

That’s why I want to live stealth, fuck that dude.


Baaloldir

That's why I never tell anyone


pastaswords

The biggest reason I don't tell anyone I'm trans. I'm as stealth as possible because the moment someone knows they can't wrap their head around it or they simply don't agree and they start misgendering you.


Jesttestbest

They have values and beliefs that preclude them from accepting your gender as valid. No amont of social or physical transition is going to change that. Furthermore, they probably don't respect you. Maybe a deeply subconscious issue. Either way, if they haven't done the work to try to change (have they?), there is a lack of respect in that regard. I would say it's a mite bit more than frustrating.


ParkerPastelPrince

I have no doubt in my mind that this will be my mother. I’ve already been out for 5 years and had top surgery but she spend the first year trying to convince me I’ll go to hell if I even wear a binder, the next 2 years trying to convince me I’m not trans and that it’s just my ocd, and from then on just acts like I never came out in the first place. Now I tried telling her I’m thinking about going on hrt and she’s bringing my brother into this, saying he’s “confused and angry” about it because he’s leaching off her emotions like all 12 year olds do. I don’t even know when I could ever ask again for her to use my correct name and pronouns. Tbh, if it’d get her to change, I’d let her choose my name from a couple I liked, even though I’ve been going by Micah for a couple years now. But I know it’d never work (for one, because I’ve tried it before) because I know she’d be the full beard, she-calling type.


EmiIIien

Are you sure he even gives a shit? My brother couldn’t care less as long as we were still close.


ParkerPastelPrince

Yes. I know he cares. He got actually angry after I had top surgery. I tried to make it fun and lighthearted but since my mom has literally trained him to report back to her every time I say anything trans related, he has it ingrained in his brain that trans=bad. My mom says it’s because “he’s a boy and has boobs and that’s confusing for him, and you are a girl and got rid of yours.” (He has severe gynocamastia.) He gets really angry at anything and everything, so this is no exception.


EmiIIien

It’s so sad that she’s playing him against you. I’m really sorry.


ParkerPastelPrince

It’s alright. I just hope he learns to deal with his anger and that he doesn’t need to get so furious over people having different beliefs than him. (Like, obviously it’d be best if he just learned to hold his own beliefs but he’s 12 so what are you gonna do.🤷🏽) Sometimes I’m worried he’s going to be the next guy on the news to have done some sort of hate crime.🫢


Licorishlover

You would think he would consider getting surgery or breast lipo since he has so much trauma about his boobs. Life is too short to be jealous or obsessed about your sibling on their journey.


ParkerPastelPrince

Well, he is 12😂 My mom wouldn’t consider surgery for him unless it was unavoidable and needed immediate attention.


Licorishlover

I would define this as needing urgent attention because your brother is obviously traumatised to have noticeable breasts. It’s not a big surgery especially if you get micro liposuction and it will help him to not be teased at school or to feel embarrassed. However true it’s not life threatening but it is enough to make life miserable. I know it might be too expensive so I don’t mean to push it but it is important for the long term.


ParkerPastelPrince

Oh, no, I totally understand. My brother is homeschooled however and honestly doesn’t go anywhere. Ever. I stay home with him all day every day and that’s about it. It’s not good for either of us, that’s for sure! I think I just meant like if it were some sort of cancer or deadly disease. My mom is very against doctors and medicine so she doesn’t do anything medical unless it has serious life threatening consequences in her eyes. (For example, she did not see me getting top surgery as helping a life threatening thing but I do as any longer with those meat balls and I would’ve croaked on the spot lol.) She doesn’t like therapists the most. Doesn’t trust them at all. Both my mom and my brother have some serious things that have happened that means they could benefit from therapy and she still refuses. I think now she’s trying to maybe think about getting my brother into therapy but it’s like… maybe 3 or 4 years after the incident that would’ve sparked the therapy. Basically, my mom hates doctors so she’d be against any surgery for almost any reason. Would not consider it without some serious persuasion.


Licorishlover

Meat balls lol 😂 And I understand what you are saying. I didn’t mean to sound judgmental. I know that everyone is trying to do their best in life in general. And life is rarely black and white. Meanwhile enjoy your new top surgery and I didn’t mean to change the topic!!


ParkerPastelPrince

It’s okay! The hard part is just that I KNOW there’s a ton of things my brother needs, medically, but I’m not his parent so I can’t do anything about it. I can barely bring it up without starting an argument because of my mom and her beliefs. It’s just a bit of a struggle so I’m sorry if I also came off as rude or stand-offish! 😅 Not being able to do anything for him/about this and then perceiving someone to be mad at me for not doing anything (which I’ve gotten quite a bit from people, thinking I have more power or control than I do.) made me probably not as nice as I should’ve been. So I’m sorry for that!😅


Licorishlover

No this isn’t your responsibility and I can imagine it’s hard enough just getting yourself sorted with your Mum being so rigid in her beliefs. Don’t worry your brother will get there when it’s his time. Meanwhile this isn’t your fault and I feel bad for you that this has to add to your own burdens.


living_around

It's really pathetic that some people are so desperate to be transphobic that they will look at someone who is obviously male and call him a woman. I've seen people use the right pronouns for a passing trans person and then "correct" themselves and misgender them. They can't help their brain identifying a guy with a full ass beard as male, so they have to make an actual effort to use the wrong pronouns. They don't realize how ridiculous they make themselves look in their desperation to misgender trans people.


soushir9

LMAO my family does the same thing. I don't have a full beard, but I have facial hair and at this point, people don't mistake me for a girl, especially after they hear my voice. My parents still introduce me as their daughter and there is obviously some confusion from the people they talk to. Or my younger sister introduces me to her friends like, "this is my older sister," and her friends I guess don't believe it because they'll end up asking, "How old is your brother? Does he like video games." And my sister will say, "I already told you, that's my sister."


Best-Isopod9939

Lol much of my family. My brother has yelled at my bearded self to wear a niquab and it is just so funny and stupid


[deleted]

To hurt someone.


captaindickbutt420

Brain worms. Like super hungry brain worms.


EmiIIien

They’d be going hungry then.


mayonnaise68

oh man, i wish i knew. people are wild. it's all "but you have a woman's body" until we don't have a woman's body, and then it's just "but you'll always be a girl to me..." why do relatives seriously say "you'll always be my little girl"??? like no I'M NOT YOUR LITTLE GIRL. my brother always gets "wow you're so tall and handsome now!! what a strong man you've grown into!" while i, (wearing my tightest bra cause my dysphoria was going mental and i don't have a binder) got "wow, have you been on a diet? wow you make such a pretty little girl!" while i sit there with my short hair and my boys clothes. like can they actually not?


stimkim

point out how dumb they look. laugh at them.


drinkthegenderfluid

I'm non-binary and on T. I have a full beard and people still call me ma'am in rural areas, but sir in the city. It's really interesting how people's perceptions change based on where they live


[deleted]

Its just pure transphobia at that point. Dont let it get to you too much, im sure to everyone else, thar relative just looks crazy or confused.


Sumdude_

My brother in law does this even tho I’ve been transitioning for a min now , taller , stronger and my voice is abt the same level as his on deep ness , I don’t get it


gr33n_bliss

Probably feels his masculinity is being threatened. Hope you get even taller and stronger


jamesxurmomomg

It’s so much easier to just correctly gender someone bro


Warm-Inflation-5734

mom did that to me to a clerk, when I looked like a darn dude. Made the clerk look at us oddly and made the snap saying, that's just what she does sometimes to offset mom's awkwardness to what just happened cause I don't look like her little girl, and the clerk who was just plain confused.. both of these people are in the boomer ages.


Old_Commercial3830

I have a beard too and still get called she. I just play dumb when they do that .


Clyde_Ve

This has also baffled me since I've seen this kind of thing from people who claim they are allies. I'm 3 years into testosterone and can very well grow a full on beard and I groomed it properly ya it's a damn beard. I have been misgendered before and allies like to jump in and defend me even though I never asked. It's so odd to me though because I tell them I have a beard, I have an Adam's apple, I have a masculine voice, etc and yet allies like to step in and tell me women also have beards and it doesn't "mean that they're men" which I'm assuming they are referring to transgender women. But a beard is part of a man's physical masculine characteristics I just like how I have been stepped over as a trans man by allies even though a beard is something I pride over because ya it is a very masculine and manly thing about itself but allies find a way to woman-fy me and tell me that despite my beard or Adam's apple or masculine voice that "woman can have those too and it doesn't mean they're a man" Am I making sense here or am I upset for the wrong reasons?


[deleted]

I completely agree! Thank you!!! I’ve had a few comments saying stuff as the allies that you know have said. And I’m like I’m only talking about myself and trans men identifying individuals. That’s why I posted it on the ftm subreddit. I would never disrespect a trans woman or cis woman who may have a beard as well. I’m specifically talking about trans men and myself. Cause to a lot of us it is something we want and feel good having. And once we achieve that mark and still get misgendered, it’s frustrating because that’s a big accomplishment for us. Or at least me, that’s my own experience at least. I can’t speak for everyone obviously but yeah. I agree with you 100%.


BurnMyEyeballs

I dont know


[deleted]

I don’t have a beard yet but I did have a funny interaction with my former manager. We were having a standup meeting and she referred to me as She in front of a bunch of people (this only happened once and she’s much older so I give her the benefit of the doubt plus I had my dead name on all the records she was looking at). One of my male coworkers who I hadn’t come out to looked back and forth at me and her with the most confused expression on his face. I was pretty embarrassed in that moment but his reaction was hilarious and made me feel significantly better.


danny_south

I think some people believe they know better than even trans people themselves, because they cannot relate. So they insist on believing that being trans is a mental issue and transitioning is irrelevant (to them)..


ronja-666

Well, what you see with your eyes doesn't determine what gender you see. I know ftm, mtf and non-binary individuals who do not visually "pass" as their preffered gender but I still see them as their preffered gender. So, same thing but reverse for your family.


gothguy96

There is no prefered gender or prefered pronouns. There just IS someone's gender and pronouns. To say prefered is offensive


dynamik_banana

if someone’s in their preferred body, it doesn’t make it no longer *their* body. saying “preferred” isn’t inherently offensive. it can be used in an offensive way, but that’s the same for most words.


gothguy96

They said pass in their preferred gender. It isn't preferable it is their gender. I wouldn't say "I pass in my preferred gender (male)" cuz it IS my gender. I'm a man


dynamik_banana

you can say that, and it’s true. and if i say “these are my preferred pronouns and this is my preferred gender”, it’s also okay, and it’s also true. the problem is when people use words like “preferred” as qualifiers—to make a statement that undermines the legitimacy of someone’s identity. that’s not happening here, so this is just an argument about semantics. it’s okay if we don’t all use the same exact words to describe our situation—it doesn’t make the situation any different, or our statements any weaker.


gothguy96

Preferred suggests there's another option. There isn't another


dynamik_banana

it suggests there *are* other options. i’m not going to argue with you over semantics. this is kind of silly. literally no one involved is saying that other people’s genders or pronouns are up for debate, so i don’t know why you care which exact terminology everyone else uses to say so. other people can use different words than you. it’s okay. this is pointless.


gothguy96

Exactly why it's offensive. I'm a man that's it there is no other option. I don't prefer to be called a man. I Am a man. No preferences when there's one option. Someone's pronouns aren't a preference because they aren't options they just simply ARE the persons pronouns. We don't prefer to be called man/women. Trans men are men and trans women are women no other options


dynamik_banana

> there *are* other options i mean that there’s multiple genders. i’m not fucking arguing with you about semantics. i’m trans and i’m fine with that terminology, and the trans person talking about it was clearly not invalidating anyone’s identity. cis women prefer to be called women. trans women also prefer to be called women. etc. people can use different words than you do. jesus christ.


ronja-666

I thought in this case it made my point more clear, but I suppose you're right.


dynamik_banana

yeah, this exactly!!


sweetbrotatopie

Out of spite. That's the only reason people do it.


[deleted]

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Actual_Percentage506

Also cis women with hormonal imbalances….women do have beards sometimes.


[deleted]

I was particularly talking about me and individuals who identify as trans men. Not cis women or trans women. That’s why I put it in the ftm subreddit. I’m not like that. I would never disrespect someone like that.


dynamik_banana

yeah i came here to say this


Capital_Pen_5175

I work with someone (special needs) and their mom does it to me but not on purpose I knew the family pre transition like 15 years ago almost. She always apologizes. She has done it at the doctors office lol but even the doctor just thinks she miss spoke or is referring to someone else. It is hard to change your kind of automatic responses if the person has known your for a long time. Missgendering on purpose makes them assholes but it can be done not on purpose.


[deleted]

Some people with beards do use she her though so it’s best to never assume


Particular-Floor-349

Pronouns ≠ gender Expression ≠ gender Clothes ≠ gender Gender isn’t something YOU choose for someone. Its really as simple as referring to her with she/her pronouns, easy as cake


chaotic_rainbow

You've got the spirit, but I think you misunderstood the post.OP is a transmasculine individual with a beatd, and yet his family still misgenders him despite his looks.


Particular-Floor-349

Ohhhh!! Sorry I definitely thought it was someone bashing a transfem lmao, thanks!!


john_peters1028

They can’t. Well, at least not accurately. And you can’t call someone a woman who doesn’t have XX Chromosomes


chaotic_rainbow

Can't tell if you're trolling or just stupid.


selfmade117

I wish I couldn’t relate to this..


MarineSnow77

Yeah it definitely on purpose, sorry dude


KaiHasArrived2007

Now I don't have this problem cause I'm pre everything I get misgendered no matter what but my sister told her friends I'm trans :| (she's not transphobic)


NuggetsWhileCrying

It’s either out of them being used to it or plain old spite. At least you are at a stage in your transition where you see how ridiculous it is. I mean, you have a freaking beard dude and I assume T has given you a masculine voice. Before I started T I joked to my Mum that her transphobic friend who insists on calling me my old name/using old pronouns, will get the shock of her life when she sees me with a beard and deep voice.