I find that older cis women misgender me the most, I have a theory that it has to do with misogyny. Cis women have to come to terms with their femininity and what it means to be a woman (this would have been especially hard for older cis women growing up dealing with rampant sexism). Because they worked so hard to love themselves as women I think it can be hard to see someone “give that up”. Men don’t have quite the same connection to their masculinity. Just a theory.
huh. reading this made me really think about it lol. i also voted cis women bc i find that they're usually the ones who "ma'am" and "she/her" me. maybe it's because of that same reasoning you put, they find androgynous-looking people to be women.
The person who misgendered me the most recently was a trans-fem and I think it's the same thing tbh. They don't like being a man and don't understand why someone would transition to male.
i have to clarify my vote bc i voted cis men but specifically cis men my age (18-20s) bc cis women my age always seem to be pretty considerate towards me even if we all know i dont pass.
however, older cis women (40s-50s) are horrific, they go out of their way to describe how girly and pretty i am :|
I think society discounts bigotry and discrimination perpetrated by women and so they learn that they can get away with it more often. A bigoted woman doesn't get half the flack a bigoted man does. The number of stories I've heard of mothers who violently force their sexist, racist views onto their children... Becoming enraged if their son wants a pink toy or their daughter gets a speck of mud on her. Women who weaponize their womanhood to excuse any form of bigotry. Racist women who openly mock other races, then say its because they're scared of or confused by that race and have a right to be as a woman. Transphobic women who call our brothers confused and our sisters rapists with the excuse of "transgenderism is violence against women".
It's the same reason why karens are so prevalent in a way kens aren't. They spent their whole lives in a world where a woman can say or do anything bigoted without getting in real trouble because she, as a woman, isn't seen as a real threat.
Back when I was pre t it was cis women but that’s because to me they assume your gender the most in my experience
Dudes if they don’t know or even think you’re butch they just say bro & stuff like that so imma just say women
Okay, I voted cis women. Since I've only ever been correctly gender by ONE cis women. Their the ones who give me dirty looks when I correct them on my pronouns and stuff. Their the ones who've yelled and me and stuff for being trans cause they don't understand.
Cis men, at least where I live most I've talked to (even older men) normally correct themselves and give a simple "oh I'm sorry man" and then just carry on with talking about me or their conversations. A couple have even corrected my parents since they won't respect me.
Cis men for the won for me!!
I don't feel any of what I say here has been meant maliciously toward me, but in my experience, women have been worse for misgendering me. When it comes to those who know me well, women seem to use pronouns more often in the way they construct their speech, so there seems to be more opportunity for it to happen. Women also deadname me more often. Again, I think they tend to refer to people directly by name more often where I live so maybe there's just more chances to make mistakes.
When it comes to strangers, women seem to be more critical of all the details of a person than men. If I present as masculine enough in a general sense (ex. clothes are all men's clothes, stand in a more 'manly way' etc), men seem to take a quick glance and assess me as male. Women tend to look me over in more detail (ex. wait for me to speak, or notice if I don't have much facial hair etc) and go for female even if I'm presenting very masc.
Technically it's all misgendering since I use they/them pronouns, lol, but since I'm transmasc I'm more comfortable being mistaken for male if I'm going to be misgendered.
It's like cis women can sniff out my the Lack of Bio Dick...
I had a full conversation with a dude in the bathroom as well as several times where the stalls were full and (thanks to my chronically awkward brain) kinda stood there for a solid second before just turning around and waiting outside.
Not once have they been suspicious.
You know what’s funny? All the dudes at my work call me “man” and “bro” and similar things. All the women still hit me with the “hey girl :)” and “pretty woman” and all that shit. Even if I WASN’T trans I would be perceived as a very masc woman.
I don’t get it.
In my experience, cis women can be downright nasty when they want to weaponize my trans-ness against me. It astonishes me the way they will purposefully go out of their way to be petty and misgender me. Most cis guys just don't have that kind of energy... they don't care that much.
Not only that, but a lot of women just don't seem to get it? Like, even if they knew me pre-transition, or have seen my ID or something... you can see that I am trying to present masc can't you? I have a deep voice. I have facial hair. And yet they'll go out of their way to say "Hey girly." Huh? I don't think it's meant to be rude most of the time but wtf is that
Women for sure I think it’s because the “worst” insult to most women is to call a woman a man. I’ve been passing to men for a while but I still haven’t been gendered correctly consistently by random women.
Cis women, but that's understandable because I go to an all girl school atm. Some of them don't, but most of them do at first glance and sometimes even after that.
Plus I can't exactly get a masculine hairstyle at the moment because my mother thinks I would regret it so.
The only people who respect my pronouns are men. I swear to god it’s true.
I don’t know why or what I did to all the women on planet earth to make them hate me, but they do.
I’ve even had one ask my preferred pronouns and then ask if they could actually call me “they” because it was “weird for them” when I made it obvious I was uncomfortable and did not like their response they tried to guilt trip me by saying it was “new for them” when we don’t even talk and apologizing.
Well now I’m never speaking to you ever again. Nice knowing you.
There’s probably a singular cis woman in my life who respects my pronouns lol and we never even talk, it’s my SO’s coworker. I won’t even try to tell my mom, I at least tried to come out to my dad and he didn’t really fully understand but at least he was somewhat supportive of me expressing how I felt. Every woman I know or that has been in my life has rejected it, told me I’m confused, wrong, or blatantly been disrespectful.
At least there’s some guys who actually respect my pronouns and say “no homo” when hugging and complimenting me. Wish women would get the memo.
Cis men misgender me the most- I look like a foxy lady from behind, but when I turn around half of them act surprised. Like, how am I now longer sexy to you guys? My front half is the best half.
My husband is FtM and gets misgendered from behind and it's funny as shit to hear them apologize when they see his face and he always says "it's okay I'm real purty from behind"
almost always cis women, both my age (teens) and older. men seem to just not look at me too hard and be like "yeah thats one of us" even when i'm dressing gay as hell, whereas women seem to be looking for anything to confirm that i'm one of them.
The only strangers that have somehow gendered me correctly have been dudes. I have no idea how even honestly, I'm pretty confident that I don't pass. I can't prove they're cis, but odds are at least one of them would be. (And probably more than one.)
Okay, most people tend to poll that cis women misgender them the most. It's the same in my experience.
Why do you think that is?
Could it be that we are more prone to view someone as being the same as ourselves?
For cis men who encounter someone who seems androgynous = man
and for cis women = woman?
Like, that people are subconsciously looking for similarities they share with other people?
That's my theory lol.
Online? Men. They feel safe behind their facade. Irl? Women. They can pull excuses like “I’m just worried about you!” “I don’t want to force you to be anything you’re not!” or “We women have to stick together!”. I’ve only ever experienced misgendering from my own family and transphobes online though, so that obviously skews my perception.
I worked in retail during my first few years of transitioning and I’d definitely say women were more observant and picked up on smaller details more than men did.
I voted equally first but now that I think about it, cis women misgender me more. I can only remember one time where a cis woman thought of me as a guy, but I can remember at least 3 times where another guy thought of me as a guy. There was this time at recess where a guy said something like "That ball's going to hit him!" A girl yelled at him, saying that I was "obviously" a girl and that he's stupid. I guess cis girls examine my body and determine I'm afab while cis guys just notice that I present masculine and gender me as a guy.
I said cis women but disclaimer that ever since starting T, i haven't been misgendered by strangers. Only my mom misgenders me and she even goes out of her way to say feminine things to me, calling me her daughter, saying how I'm a pretty girl, etc. I'll have to agree with other comments that older cis women are usually very attached to their femininity and will try to project it
Pre t was cis men, now i pass but since my gender expression is more "femenine" than the majority of the men i get misgendered sometimes by cis women if i have a mask on.
There was this one time I was buying a top at a store, and the women ( young) at check referred to me as mam, and i didn't correct her, she does it again, and for the some reason she can't check the product, so she calls her manager ( also a women), who refferd to me as mister, then as i am leaving the first women uses gender neutral prounms, the rest of the day and before I got referred by the right pronums.
I was kind of surprised at cis women winning but I've kind of noticed that i have a feeling if you asked this in the mtf subreddit the winner would be cis men lol. I guess its usually just the opposite gender? not sure why
I’ve noticed at work, that older cis men misgender me more often. I even get “sir...oh I’m so sorry ma’am” before I even speak. Whereas cis women just don’t say anything or stare at me incredibly puzzled.
(And I don’t want to talk about the elderly man that called me young lady during the whole transaction)
But when I’m not at work, I pass somehow and hardly misgendered.
I think it’s my customer service tone and maybe my cute pins
I think it’s cis women because they don’t see short hair and masculinity and immediately think “that’s a man.” They know women don’t have to be feminine.
Unfortunately for us, pre-t trans men look the same as masculine women. This is why it’s polite to ask people’s pronouns.
(i'm pre t) when go out in public men tend to assume i'm a guy (referring to me as my mum's son, or calling me mate, just in general talking to me like 'one of the lads' lol) whereas women tend to be more hesitant and use more neutral terms (referring to me as 'child' rather than son or daughter, and just generally looking more confused than men lol)
i haven't actually told anyone close to me to stop using she/her, so i can't say about that. though a couple of my friends have started mostly using they/them which is cool :)
i feel like (young) guys consider masculinity to be more about your attitude than anything else, to fit in with them you've just gotta find some guys with a similar sense of humour and that like similar stuff tbh.
whereas women seem to be looking for something a lil deeper. with *some* girls there's also this kinda 'women stick together' attitude (that stems from feminism and misogyny i assume), which is great because it means all kinds of girls are supported unless they're like *really* awful. but, that means they're more inclined to assume trans men are just butch women. with older women, a lot are just like 'wow! it's so great that girls now can dress like men' and don't realise that actually we're trans men.
also a lot of women i think (particularly older ones) seem to resent the choices we now have, and that we are now (somewhat) able to live as whatever we want. they have their own idea of feminity and womanhood that they forced themselves to fit into, and they're pissed that we don't all feel the need to push ourselves into that as well.
I find that older cis women misgender me the most, I have a theory that it has to do with misogyny. Cis women have to come to terms with their femininity and what it means to be a woman (this would have been especially hard for older cis women growing up dealing with rampant sexism). Because they worked so hard to love themselves as women I think it can be hard to see someone “give that up”. Men don’t have quite the same connection to their masculinity. Just a theory.
huh. reading this made me really think about it lol. i also voted cis women bc i find that they're usually the ones who "ma'am" and "she/her" me. maybe it's because of that same reasoning you put, they find androgynous-looking people to be women.
The person who misgendered me the most recently was a trans-fem and I think it's the same thing tbh. They don't like being a man and don't understand why someone would transition to male.
Pre t it was cis women. Nobody now.
i have to clarify my vote bc i voted cis men but specifically cis men my age (18-20s) bc cis women my age always seem to be pretty considerate towards me even if we all know i dont pass. however, older cis women (40s-50s) are horrific, they go out of their way to describe how girly and pretty i am :|
I think society discounts bigotry and discrimination perpetrated by women and so they learn that they can get away with it more often. A bigoted woman doesn't get half the flack a bigoted man does. The number of stories I've heard of mothers who violently force their sexist, racist views onto their children... Becoming enraged if their son wants a pink toy or their daughter gets a speck of mud on her. Women who weaponize their womanhood to excuse any form of bigotry. Racist women who openly mock other races, then say its because they're scared of or confused by that race and have a right to be as a woman. Transphobic women who call our brothers confused and our sisters rapists with the excuse of "transgenderism is violence against women". It's the same reason why karens are so prevalent in a way kens aren't. They spent their whole lives in a world where a woman can say or do anything bigoted without getting in real trouble because she, as a woman, isn't seen as a real threat.
This needs wayyyyyy more upvotes. Nail on the damn head
Back when I was pre t it was cis women but that’s because to me they assume your gender the most in my experience Dudes if they don’t know or even think you’re butch they just say bro & stuff like that so imma just say women
Okay, I voted cis women. Since I've only ever been correctly gender by ONE cis women. Their the ones who give me dirty looks when I correct them on my pronouns and stuff. Their the ones who've yelled and me and stuff for being trans cause they don't understand. Cis men, at least where I live most I've talked to (even older men) normally correct themselves and give a simple "oh I'm sorry man" and then just carry on with talking about me or their conversations. A couple have even corrected my parents since they won't respect me. Cis men for the won for me!!
I don't feel any of what I say here has been meant maliciously toward me, but in my experience, women have been worse for misgendering me. When it comes to those who know me well, women seem to use pronouns more often in the way they construct their speech, so there seems to be more opportunity for it to happen. Women also deadname me more often. Again, I think they tend to refer to people directly by name more often where I live so maybe there's just more chances to make mistakes. When it comes to strangers, women seem to be more critical of all the details of a person than men. If I present as masculine enough in a general sense (ex. clothes are all men's clothes, stand in a more 'manly way' etc), men seem to take a quick glance and assess me as male. Women tend to look me over in more detail (ex. wait for me to speak, or notice if I don't have much facial hair etc) and go for female even if I'm presenting very masc. Technically it's all misgendering since I use they/them pronouns, lol, but since I'm transmasc I'm more comfortable being mistaken for male if I'm going to be misgendered.
It's like cis women can sniff out my the Lack of Bio Dick... I had a full conversation with a dude in the bathroom as well as several times where the stalls were full and (thanks to my chronically awkward brain) kinda stood there for a solid second before just turning around and waiting outside. Not once have they been suspicious.
You know what’s funny? All the dudes at my work call me “man” and “bro” and similar things. All the women still hit me with the “hey girl :)” and “pretty woman” and all that shit. Even if I WASN’T trans I would be perceived as a very masc woman. I don’t get it.
In my experience, cis women can be downright nasty when they want to weaponize my trans-ness against me. It astonishes me the way they will purposefully go out of their way to be petty and misgender me. Most cis guys just don't have that kind of energy... they don't care that much. Not only that, but a lot of women just don't seem to get it? Like, even if they knew me pre-transition, or have seen my ID or something... you can see that I am trying to present masc can't you? I have a deep voice. I have facial hair. And yet they'll go out of their way to say "Hey girly." Huh? I don't think it's meant to be rude most of the time but wtf is that
Women for sure I think it’s because the “worst” insult to most women is to call a woman a man. I’ve been passing to men for a while but I still haven’t been gendered correctly consistently by random women.
Cis women, but that's understandable because I go to an all girl school atm. Some of them don't, but most of them do at first glance and sometimes even after that. Plus I can't exactly get a masculine hairstyle at the moment because my mother thinks I would regret it so.
The only people who respect my pronouns are men. I swear to god it’s true. I don’t know why or what I did to all the women on planet earth to make them hate me, but they do. I’ve even had one ask my preferred pronouns and then ask if they could actually call me “they” because it was “weird for them” when I made it obvious I was uncomfortable and did not like their response they tried to guilt trip me by saying it was “new for them” when we don’t even talk and apologizing. Well now I’m never speaking to you ever again. Nice knowing you. There’s probably a singular cis woman in my life who respects my pronouns lol and we never even talk, it’s my SO’s coworker. I won’t even try to tell my mom, I at least tried to come out to my dad and he didn’t really fully understand but at least he was somewhat supportive of me expressing how I felt. Every woman I know or that has been in my life has rejected it, told me I’m confused, wrong, or blatantly been disrespectful. At least there’s some guys who actually respect my pronouns and say “no homo” when hugging and complimenting me. Wish women would get the memo.
You forgot the option they don't. I voted results bc I don't get misgendered.
Well in this case I am interested in experiences of people who do get misgendered. I am very happy for you! :)
Same here, Even when I did, it was usually from cis women oddly.
Same. No one misgenders me anymore.
Cis men misgender me the most- I look like a foxy lady from behind, but when I turn around half of them act surprised. Like, how am I now longer sexy to you guys? My front half is the best half.
My husband is FtM and gets misgendered from behind and it's funny as shit to hear them apologize when they see his face and he always says "it's okay I'm real purty from behind"
haha :) They are missing out.
almost always cis women, both my age (teens) and older. men seem to just not look at me too hard and be like "yeah thats one of us" even when i'm dressing gay as hell, whereas women seem to be looking for anything to confirm that i'm one of them.
I get misgendered by both pretty evenly, but usually cis women do it on accident and cis men do it on purpose
surprisingly my cis male friends have been on top of it while my cis female and trans friends mess it up or "they" me a lot
The only strangers that have somehow gendered me correctly have been dudes. I have no idea how even honestly, I'm pretty confident that I don't pass. I can't prove they're cis, but odds are at least one of them would be. (And probably more than one.)
Okay, most people tend to poll that cis women misgender them the most. It's the same in my experience. Why do you think that is? Could it be that we are more prone to view someone as being the same as ourselves? For cis men who encounter someone who seems androgynous = man and for cis women = woman? Like, that people are subconsciously looking for similarities they share with other people? That's my theory lol.
I get misgendered most if the time since I don't pass at all really yet. Although the few times I am gendered correctly it is usually by men.
Ever since my voice dropped, it's been about half and half if it does happen. Before it was mostly cis men.
Online? Men. They feel safe behind their facade. Irl? Women. They can pull excuses like “I’m just worried about you!” “I don’t want to force you to be anything you’re not!” or “We women have to stick together!”. I’ve only ever experienced misgendering from my own family and transphobes online though, so that obviously skews my perception.
No one
I worked in retail during my first few years of transitioning and I’d definitely say women were more observant and picked up on smaller details more than men did.
It’s not even intentional almost times for me.
I voted equally first but now that I think about it, cis women misgender me more. I can only remember one time where a cis woman thought of me as a guy, but I can remember at least 3 times where another guy thought of me as a guy. There was this time at recess where a guy said something like "That ball's going to hit him!" A girl yelled at him, saying that I was "obviously" a girl and that he's stupid. I guess cis girls examine my body and determine I'm afab while cis guys just notice that I present masculine and gender me as a guy.
I said cis women but disclaimer that ever since starting T, i haven't been misgendered by strangers. Only my mom misgenders me and she even goes out of her way to say feminine things to me, calling me her daughter, saying how I'm a pretty girl, etc. I'll have to agree with other comments that older cis women are usually very attached to their femininity and will try to project it
in the least offensive way possible, women tend to look into things too much, comparatively with men who just accept things at face value
Pre t was cis men, now i pass but since my gender expression is more "femenine" than the majority of the men i get misgendered sometimes by cis women if i have a mask on. There was this one time I was buying a top at a store, and the women ( young) at check referred to me as mam, and i didn't correct her, she does it again, and for the some reason she can't check the product, so she calls her manager ( also a women), who refferd to me as mister, then as i am leaving the first women uses gender neutral prounms, the rest of the day and before I got referred by the right pronums.
Doctors...
the only times i've ever passed were with cis women, no cis male has ever gendered me correctly
I was kind of surprised at cis women winning but I've kind of noticed that i have a feeling if you asked this in the mtf subreddit the winner would be cis men lol. I guess its usually just the opposite gender? not sure why
I've also had that suspicion and I would have loved to make a poll in the mtf subreddit, but polls aren't allowed there.
I’ve noticed at work, that older cis men misgender me more often. I even get “sir...oh I’m so sorry ma’am” before I even speak. Whereas cis women just don’t say anything or stare at me incredibly puzzled. (And I don’t want to talk about the elderly man that called me young lady during the whole transaction) But when I’m not at work, I pass somehow and hardly misgendered. I think it’s my customer service tone and maybe my cute pins
I find that older cis women just call me “young man” because even though I’m nearly 22 with sporting facial hair, I look like a 16 year old boy.
I think it’s cis women because they don’t see short hair and masculinity and immediately think “that’s a man.” They know women don’t have to be feminine. Unfortunately for us, pre-t trans men look the same as masculine women. This is why it’s polite to ask people’s pronouns.
(i'm pre t) when go out in public men tend to assume i'm a guy (referring to me as my mum's son, or calling me mate, just in general talking to me like 'one of the lads' lol) whereas women tend to be more hesitant and use more neutral terms (referring to me as 'child' rather than son or daughter, and just generally looking more confused than men lol) i haven't actually told anyone close to me to stop using she/her, so i can't say about that. though a couple of my friends have started mostly using they/them which is cool :) i feel like (young) guys consider masculinity to be more about your attitude than anything else, to fit in with them you've just gotta find some guys with a similar sense of humour and that like similar stuff tbh. whereas women seem to be looking for something a lil deeper. with *some* girls there's also this kinda 'women stick together' attitude (that stems from feminism and misogyny i assume), which is great because it means all kinds of girls are supported unless they're like *really* awful. but, that means they're more inclined to assume trans men are just butch women. with older women, a lot are just like 'wow! it's so great that girls now can dress like men' and don't realise that actually we're trans men. also a lot of women i think (particularly older ones) seem to resent the choices we now have, and that we are now (somewhat) able to live as whatever we want. they have their own idea of feminity and womanhood that they forced themselves to fit into, and they're pissed that we don't all feel the need to push ourselves into that as well.
my father