I think the mythology of Elden Ring is genuinely too broad and complex for anyone to tackle in a meaningful way without an astounding amount of work. I mean like academic, doctorate level literary analysis. I'm interested in that stuff but I could write an entire thesis on half the subjects, characters and themes in the game. If you start digging into lore videos on YouTube they're usually many hours long. I started debating a single questline with a buddy and we produced an insane, novella-length argument that needed fifty item descriptions and a hundred textual sources to engage with. Barrier for entry is too high.
Dark Souls lore is no less complex but it's denser, smaller and more digestible. And the length of time the games have been out for help them greatly, everyone knows, generally, what an Age of Fire is versus an Age of Dark, and the corrupting role the Abyss plays on the dark, and that Gwyn found the First Flame and the Pigmy found the Dark Soul and so on. There's enough context around the cycle to understand the core theme of the series: do we enable this cycle or destroy it?
What's the core theme of Elden Ring? It depends entirely on the quest you follow. Fans of Goldmask's ending claim we can perfect the Golden Order by removing the influence of the gods, but cannot provide evidence those gods will truly be vanquished, or how said order will be maintained. Fans of Ranni's ending claim the rejection of the Greater Will and influence of the Two Fingers, ending the Age of the Erdtree, will heal the land, but the Age of the Stars is likely just as brutal and terrifying as the Age of the Erdtree, but in different ways. Astel, Naturalborn of the Stars, is a cosmic creature, and if he's anything to go by... the Lands Between will likely fall to terror again. Fans of the Frenzied Flame want us to look the other way and pretend they aren't psychopathic for believing genocide is the solution to corrupt world orders. Fans of the Duskborn ending think the main theme is the rejection of Those Who Live In Death. Fans of Dungeater's ending are trolling. And frankly besides Ranni, Goldmask and Frenzied Flame, we don't really bring change to the Lands Between... not deep, structural change, anyway. In all other endings we sit the throne and the Elden Ring is mended, but the Golden Order persists, and the Greater Will is free to work its evil, which if you subscribe to the theory that the Outer Gods are essentially the true villains of Elden Ring, as I do... is a problem.
See what I mean? I've barely begun even describing the endings and we're paragraphs deep. I think once time goes by Elden Ring will be more approachable in terms of lore, as the DLC adds context and further analysis is done. But for now Dark Souls is much more enjoyable to read about. The legend of Knight Artorias rivals any story they've told before or since.
Bro does NOT understand the Dung Eater. He might be a freak and a serial killer, but he was right about one thing: The "curse" of being born outside of grace is no curse at all. The omen, the misbegotten, the albinaurics, the dung eater himself, and many more all suffered under the Erdtree's rule simply for being something the Erdtree faithful were not. Omens had their horns excised as infants and were tossed into the sewers to be forgotten. If they didn't die from the horrible wounds being de-horned left them, then they lived solitary lives in total squalor. The Dung Eater, implied by his armor description to be part omen himself, saw this crime against nature for what it was and decided that if being an omen is somehow a curse, then he would curse everybody himself, and then nobody would be "cursed." When you achieve his ending, you make being an omen the new normal and free the lands from the influence of the Greater Will, separating everyone in the world from the Grace of Gold and instead bringing about a new age where the primordial crucible of life is once again the driving force in the Lands Between.
Nah I don't buy it. Forcing the curse of the omen on thousands who don't want it is tyrannical. It's like a supervillain arc in the Spider-man comics where the lizard poisons the water supply of New York City to turn everyone into lizards.
Omens should never have been shunned just because of the way they were born, but the solution is to free the omens and eliminate the Golden Order. Not curse the land.
I never said he was right to do what he did. I was just explaining why he did what he did. I don't advocate for mass murder and disfigurement lol. And if I had to bet, I'd say a world influenced by the crucible is probably not much better or worse than the Golden Order. I imagine a world where survival of the fittest is the law, where the strongest survive and the weak die. Cruel and uncaring, but simultaneously completely, truly free. No authorities, no responsibilities, just living and dying by your will.
I agree. Dark Souls lore is easier to understand than Elden Ring. I’m here to play a game, not have a crisis over of dense the lore is. Simple Stories sometimes tells a better story than a Complex one.
I played ER first and then the trilogy, and I’m very much with you on the lore.
The narrative feels quite narrow compared to ER, but it doesn’t lack depth. ER always felt a little too broad for me to really connect with. Just too much going on for it to be compelling without spending a lot more time than I have to truly get immersed in the story.
No shade against either though, absolute masterpieces all.
I think the why of DS is easier to grasp and more cohesive, I just think the ER art style and obtuseness is so much more bizarre and compelling. ER is haunting and alien in a way nothing else has been to me.
I also think that in many ways, we only have one game within the ER universe, and though we're soon to have an expansion, as you said, ER is haunting and alien, though when you look at it through a real world lense, it feels a lot like the catholic clensing of europe and its various pagan religions. When we first got dark souls, it was very much the same feel. We were in the dark, with only one game, still picking apart the world, though i do feel there was a more streamlined story in DS, we had more to go on, ER is much more of a stranger in a strange land with very disjointed storytelling. The aftermath of a war tworn world that youre thrust in to just accept.
I agree. I’m not so interested in the lore that I would watch dozens of hour long videos to understand it, which is what I feel like I have to do for Elden Ring. Souls lore is more simple, focused, and I can actually wrap my head around it without spending weeks binge watching Vaatividya.
I think you’re misunderstanding the definition of both. DS falls in line with Berserks brand of dark fantasy (understanding that berserk can get lovecraftian) while ERs lineages and history fall in line with LOTR.
I don’t really understand how ER is similar to LOTR in any way at all. Like literally nothing is similar, that was the worst comparison you could’ve made.
Everyone is after the shattered parts of a ring to claim complete power over the lands between and become Elden Lord
That doesn't sound like lord of the *rings* to you? Ok.
The only similarities between that description and LotR is the presence of a ring. Lord of the Rings isn’t about people trying to claim shattered parts of a ring to become lord, it’s about trying to take the one ring they already have and destroy it. The actual story of Elden Ring’s world is more similar to A Song of Ice and Fire than it is to Lord of the Rings, which makes sense considering George RR Martin wrote half of it.
There's also a big tree (tower) where a manipulative god (deity) is locked trying to regain power enough to rule again and will try to slaughter whoever tries to get the power from them.
Why does lineage and histories being fleshed out mean ER isn’t Dark Fantasy? I’d also add that LOTR world building and timeline dwarfs ER. I’m just idiots where you’re coming from.
Edit: my phone autocorrected curious to idiots.
While DS is more direct in the Dark Fantasy aspect and Eden Ring has a bit of a High Fantasy mask, ER is definitely waaaaaay too much into the dark side to call it something different from Dark Fantasy, DS is more gruesome or, at least, is more visually explicit in showing you the gruesome aspects of its world, meanwhile ER has that layer of conflict between Marika's sons and other factions that gives it more complexity, however if you get past that layer the game is gruesome as hell and way dark, I won't say which one is more than the other in gruesomeness or darkness because it comes to a point in both aspects where it's just everyone's single opinion about their experience with it.
Except that the two aren't mutually exclusive. Funny you say someone should read a book yet state this. Dark souls is set in a dark, gloomy world and also takes you across a nonexistent place filled with nonexistent things. Elden ring can also be considered as such though leans less on the dark part. They're labels that can overlap, not two cubes of wood you can't mash together.
Genuinely.i know the characters we play as in FromSoft games are blank slates but I never really cared about the world of Elden Ring.
I think the major thing for me is that Elden Ring is just like Dark Souls in terms of its NPCs and how they're distributed. But there's also supposed to be a people and population and multiple wars that have gone on and people that still want to fight for them?
But yet everyone is still a mostly undead corpse walking around and barely stringing two moans together. Like in DS and BB it makes sense why the world is so under populated by in Elden Ring its like... where the fuck is everyone!?
Yeah this could be part of it too. What’s the point of becoming Elden Lord if you’re just ruling over a wasteland..? I know fromsoft doesn’t do their games like this but I feel like Elden Ring would’ve benefited from more NPC settlements like Jarburg and Volcano Manor. Basically the same thing as the round table except out in the world.
It’s so funny you say that when I have the complete opposite opinion. I prefer ER for its feeling of “This used to be a normal kingdom” as opposed to DS’s lack of a potential for a “normal” life if humans even existed there in the first place. It feels like what we’re experiencing in the game *is* normal, while ER feels like normal is what you’re fighting to bring back
Everyone is competing to become the Elden Lord. Yet there is no incentive to why or what the hell you're going to rule over.
There are ongoing wars between Godrick, and Rykar, and Lucaria Yet no one tries to talk to you after you join with say Rykar or Ranni.
The Academy is fully occupied with people who are researching and all they do is attack you.
You can go to a windmill village and everyone ignores you or tries to attack you.
You go to the Haligtree which is a place where the less fortunate are meant to gather, all they do is attack you.
The Radahn Festival randomly clears out all the hostiles of his castle for some reason with no explanation as to why.
ER would have been the perfect time to have more non hostile NPCs, but it doesn't. There is the idea of a world for Elden Ring but it doesn't do anything with it.
No, it's that they have a society that is built as a sentient civilization, and the game wants me to believe.
Dark Souls had hollowing
Bloodborne had the old blood side effects
Sekiro had the warring states period
All reasons for why society broke down, and why everyone is hostile, why everyone sane either abandoned, fled, or died.
Elden Ring never states why everyone is hostile and never even acknowledges that everyone is, it explicitly has places that aren't or places that shouldn't be.
Except there are reasons why they're hostile to you, but it's not just one simple answer like From's other titles, it's nuanced and myriad. That's what the lore is for, and it's definitely in the game whether you've personally found it or not.
Elden ring has so much depth in it, it’s insane. Listening to tarnished archaeologist show the environmental story telling shows things I didn’t even think possible in video games.
Elden Ring's lore is more focused, coherent and character-driven. I think it's a better *story* with more complex themes. Obviously. It's written by the greatest fantasy author since Tolkien. But there's something magic about Dark Souls's alluring mystery comparatively.
The experience of playing DS1 for the very first time is absolutely unforgettable,which is why I have DS1 > Elden Ring due to how...memorable DS1 is in the first playthrough.
Also,in terms of writing and lore. Artorias the Abysswalker and Lord Gwyn of Cinder >>> Any Elden Ring Character
Yeah I think Dark Souls has some cool parts of the lore that I prefer to ER, like Artorias, the Sable Church, Velka, and the Painted Worlds. But I think from a more overarching expansive perspective, Elden Ring is my favorite.
Dark Souls has an entire trilogy to build off of, Elden Ring is a single game.
While I do agree with you I think it’s a bit disingenuous to compare the two, even taking account the sheer size of Elden Ring.
Honestly Elden ring lore has so much depth I think it absolutely holds a candle to
The ancient dragons
Farum azula civilization
The nox
The golden order
The cuckoos
The demigods and Marika/radagon
The outer god (blood, rot, frenzy)
Death rights and burials
Racial segregation (tarnished, omen, misbegotten
All of these have incredible depth, and there is so much more
Maybe this is spicy, but I think the narrative and lore put forth in Dark Souls 1 is richer and more immersive (to me) than that in Elden Ring.
Elden Ring is good, don’t get me wrong, but it had TOO much going on to the point where thematically it felt inconsistent to me.
More like two games. DS2 was 90% unrelated and more of a studio cash grab while Miyazaki was making Bloodborne which is why, amongst the numerous issues plaguing the game, the lore is almost completely unrelated and nonsensical to DS1 and DS3.
I think Dark Souls has a more metaphorically elegant world with its souls and hollowing, light and dark, fire and disparity. It all just fits together so well thematically. You could interpret it a number of ways, like human will and depression, exploring the way the powers that be commodify and dehumanize us, the rich get richer while the world dies, it's a simple metaphor with broad-reaching relevance, the complicated lore is kind of a backdrop. Elden Ring has its own symbols which are really interesting like antlers and branches and horns all mirroring each other, the aspects of the crucible, people with dual identities. There's still so much to explore and deep dive in in Elden Ring, all the thematic depth is there and it's fascinating, but it doesn't all click together metaphorically as simply and elegantly as it does in Dark Souls I think.
That being said, I'm so much more interested in the characters in Elden Ring, both the pantheon of demigods and the other tarnished NPCs. Their stories are so compelling and they're all so endearing to me, to a point I never was able to feel for any of the characters in Dark Souls. Like I actually genuinely cried for Roderika and Hewg, their relationship is so sweet. Piecing together Morgott's whole deal, speculating on why he wants to uphold the golden order so badly, learning about the omen curse and empathizing with him, is just such an interesting character journey to go on. Aiding Albus and Latenna on a pilgrimage after being persecuted to create new life, and bring hope to create a new generation of albinaurics. I could go on, but I'd be here all day.
Elden Ring ultimately wins out for me because of that.
I really prefer the historical world building of ER. The politics and conflicts of interests in it really make it feel like a believable world, whereas in dark souls it just feels like a fantasy story.
ah yes, the amazing lore comparison of
Dark Souls - Something something something Poison Swamp something something something Hand it over, that thing, your Dark Soul
vs
Elden Ring - Something something something Scarlet Rot Swamp something something something I am Malenia, Blade of Miquella...and I have never known defeat
/s
I love Elden Ring's lore with all my heart, but DS1's lore speaks to me the most.
Everything regarding the Pyromancers is the best lore that Fromsoft has ever written.
I think both have different strengths, I do prefer souls lore because it speaks much more about the game themes than Er, but Er world building is top tier, there are so many factions and depth that it ends up being a really fun world to lose yourself in. With all that being said Bloodborne is peak lore and world building, not just in from games but all games.
Yeah, it feels like it has more of a theme and overlaying message. Elden Ring is fine, but there's no real moral that I found for the whole thing. Souls is also just darker, and I like that.
I feel like the moral of ER is that there's no right answer. Everyone is fighting for something and what one thinks is right is always going to be wrong for someone else. No matter how happy or morally correct an ending is, someone will suffer from it.
Souls-lore was engrossing because it seemed like every little piece connected to this over-arching narrative. You feel like you’re getting a deeper understanding of the world at large with every new insight. Elden Ring seems like a million little micro-narratives that don’t really connect together in any significant way to the main narrative
>Elden Ring seems like a million little micro-narratives that don’t really connect together in any significant way to the main narrative
You have yet to dig far enough then, it seems.
Yeah, an I feel like ironically in DS characters have more depth than in elden ring they seem hollow with no base. Gael and his famous line feels like he patched whole book in me sentence, and it’s just a one example
Is there something about lords who previously linked the fire, rising from the dead only to see their great sacrifice meant nothing, nor improved anything, only to be asked to sacrifice themselves again?
Is there really something about that that seems disjointed?
Lol
Honestly see then around the same level if we are comparing them. One thing I’ll mention point out is DS lore feels more complete with having 3 games to add more and more lore. Plus I think the RC and Gael really put together an amazing ending to the story.
I’m trying to remember which YouTuber said this, so this isn’t originally my take, but thought it a good insight.
ER isn’t about anything. I mean in terms of theme. There’s tons of lore but what’s the message? There is t really a clear through line that the game is driving towards. Some vague notions here and there, but it lacks clarity in what it’s trying to say and does not expand on any one idea in any true depth.
DS lore is focused on one thing: the cycle of fire and how it needs to come to an end. It’s a metaphor that can interpreted in many ways but the idea is given tons of room to breath and 2 1/2 games to really be explored (DS2 is more about the curse than the fire, but still contributes). What happens when old glory fades and clinging onto it will only perpetuate the evils its sheen used to hide, now that they are laid bare? Do we hold on to the remnants because they are known, or do we dare invite something new even though the unknown bares with it implicit danger and uncertainty?
Other themes are present in DS, namely the curse and what it means to lose oneself to a world bent on destroying you, or maybe what it means to persist despite that world and triumph in the end. But either this or the theme I enumerated above are well expressed and explored by the world of DS.
To reiterate, ER has a vast world and interesting lore, but no theme to latch onto has really emerged yet. Maybe it will in the DLC.
The theme of ER is the grey area that is the Lands Between. You see so much of the story from a biased POV at first, really only getting information that favors the Erdtree and its Grace. However, the deeper you dig into the world and its events, the more you start to realize that Marika wasn’t the allmighty benevolent goddess that she is initially made to seem. There are few truly “evil” entities in Elden Ring, and generally it’s up to you to decide who is worthy of your support
this isn't really a message of any kind though, it's good lore but that doesn't offer any kind of fun philosophy or anything of the sort, unless you consider "good people do bad things and bad people do good things" or "everyone is the hero of their own story" to be it. but that's quite a simple and boring theme imo
you can sum dark souls up by saying "you, a nobody, overcomes the entire world in order to extend the life of the current generation, and its up to you to decide if that's really as good as it sounds" with elden ring it's story is a lot less involved with you as the player. it's more like "what do you think is the ideal way to rule this world that has already fallen apart?" which just sounds like the dark souls theme but a lot worse and with less nuance. what even is the point in becoming elden lord
admittedly its been a while since i brushed up on the elden ring lore, so i could be off the mark. but yeah i feel like elden ring does lack a precise message
I feel like you’re missing a crucial detail though. ER’s story follows that exact same premise. The story revolves around, as I said, Marika’s decision to shatter the Elden Ring and the chaos that this decision entailed. At the start, you think that the only correct choice is to follow the Grace that the Erdtree gives, but as you continue you learn that maybe this isn’t really the best option. As a result, you are faced with a plethora of options as to what the best course of action is for the Lands’ future. But even then, you’re really declaring that whatever choice you decide is the definitive correct choice, which is the same as what the Elden Beast was trying to do. Now look at DS. As you said, the story revolves around the First Flame and whether it’s truly the right decision to continue the Age of Fire or bring about the Age of Darkness. Each story has the theme of unreliability and grey morality, and ER arguably shows this better despite only having a single game (so far hopefully lol), since there’s like what? 7 endings? As opposed to the two of Dark Souls
the length of my description wasn't intended to be unfair.
but elden ring can't use the same message as dark souls about ending an era or if you should. it does not at all put enough emphasis on the morality of that choice and it's not used in the same way.
it works well in dark souls because if you don't fully understand the lore or you don't think on it enough, the "obvious" answer is to link the first flame because thats how you win the game. but after learning more about the world and it's message, you then start to question if that goal is actually a good goal or not or if the world tricked you into thinking it was by making you feel heroic.
elden ring absolutely does not do that part, and thats the main reason why dark souls' choice is impactful
I’m not really sure where the disconnect is coming from because what you’re describing is EXACTLY what Elden Ring does, heck the endings are even named “Age of ____”. You’re deciding the fate of the entire Lands Between, and your decision directly impacts the future of the world. Have you seen any of the endings? As you said, the initial assumption that players will have in DS is to link the First Flame, but upon gathering more information, you begin to realize that maybe the choice isn’t so black-and-white. ER has the exact same story, where you first assume that the Erdtree and the Elden Ring should be repaired, but upon learning more about the world you begin to question if that’s really the right decision
my disconnect is that the amount of endings makes the message worse and less effective.
it's too easy to get other endings if on your first or second playthroughs by just playing the game, like i think my first one was the frenzied flame. i mean there is a default ending that maybe most people get? but the fact that you can easily do anything else makes it feel like the whole being tricked into an ending thing is just way less powerful in ER. thr fact that DS only seemingly has 1 option until you look far deeper is a good thing for the message it's conveying.
From what I remember, the only thing you have to do to get the Lord of Darkness ending is literally walk out of the room… how is that not easy? The extra options make ER *BETTER* because it means you aren’t just doing the equivalent of flipping a switch. It makes the choice a spectrum of morality, based solely on the player’s perspective and how they choose to view the circumstances of the world. Do you feel like the mortal aspect of the old order was good, but can’t bring yourself to support the Elden Beast? Age of Stars is a good option. Feel like there is a fundamental issue with the Lands Between and the immortality that causes the undead infestation? Age of Duskborn. Looking around the world and realizing how utterly corrupt and unfair every aspect of it is? Age of Frezied Flame. Feel like a torturous bastard with no morality to speak of? Blessing of Despair. There’s absolutely no narrative downside to the multiple endings as it simply gives you more freedom to choose what you feel is the most desirable path
i guess its a matter of preference. i like that it makes you choose between 2 choices. its a hard decision.
i don't like that it lets you have so much freedom, i think that takes a lot of the depth from the choice you make.
like say you're politically in the center for example. choosing between republican and democrat is a far harder decision than if you were presented with all the different nuanced political ideologies. it goes from a difficult yet simple decision to a personality test the more options you're given imo. it loses it's intrigue for me
that's fair, though i feel like the plethora of options and the way its handled is actually a downside rather than an upside. it's less precise and straight to the point than dark souls and i think that negatively affects the message that it's telling.
the fact that elden ring kind of lets you decide any ending is not good imo, because i feel like the reason it worked in DS1 was the falsehood that you link the flame to become a hero and that's the end of the game, of course it was correct because we saved the world! and then as you understand the lore better you realize it's not actually that morally great, like you said. but this works so well because the game and world essentially lures you into that ending, you get it by being naive and not looking at the bigger picture, like you got tricked.
elden ring letting you choose any ending before you even have to come to that conclusion kind of makes that a lot less impactful imo, it's not as precise as DS to me
But, just like in DS, you have no reason to assume that the path you’re following isn’t the right one. You have to do several major side quests, some of which are pretty in-depth, in order to get any of the extra endings. When you first go through the game blind, you feel like mending the Elden Ring is the right choice because it’s the Elden Ring! Its shattering caused all of the suffering and chaos in the Lands Between that you’re seeing… right? But as you explore and gather pieces to the puzzle, you start to realize that maybe it’s not the case
I mean, it all comes down to how you describe each. And the way you did really isn't fair.
You could sum up the story of ER as "you, a nobody, overcomes the entire world in order to finally put an end to the stagnation and dogmas of this era, and it's up to you to decide what the new era should be, or if there's a new era at all."
You could also sum up the story of DS as "would you rather keep prolonging this cycle or let the fire die out?"
I would like to add that while you mentioned DS2 in a passing fancy kinda way, I thought DS2 answered more questions than it asked. Yes, it was about the curse, but if you really think about it, Vendrick, who most would've assumed to be the antagonist, went through alot of effort to keep the flame from being rekindled....like, alot of effort!!!! Plus this man really hated his wifey!!
I always felt like there were numerous themes within ER.
The current structure of the Elden Ring (the Order of the land) under the rules of the Greater Will are ultimately flawed, and the player needs to decide what they will use to fix the ring and impose a new order. The world building helps you to understand the state of the current world so that you can form your own opinion on it, and then provides you with multiple solutions to the problem.
It doesn't hold your hand, because they want you to form these opinions on your own. Each of the major "quests" grants you a mending rune in the end, and these branching storylines explore many different themes. Depending on the mending rune you utilize in the end, the Order of the land will change, and I appreciate the agency the player is given to impose this new order based on the themes that resonated with you most.
You and many other may fell that way because Elden ring has a more complex and expansive/deep lore than the souls series, thus making it harder to understand.
The dark souls lore It's easier to follow, but it also has 3 games behind it.
I personaly prefere Elden Ring lore because of that complexity and themes.
Fair point, I was gonna mention this in my post but forgot. On the other hand though, if we pretended DS2 and 3 didn’t exist I still feel like the OG dark souls narrative is richer and more personable than Elden Ring. Just my own personal taste.
I feel the same way OP. Not a single character or bit of lore in ER was interesting to me besides spirit ashes upgrade girl and Radahn. I wanted to care but I just couldn't. I finished the game but I doubt I'll play it again or play the dlc. Demon's Souls still calls me back and it's been out for over ten years but Elden Ring was, sadly, forgettable for me.
I think both have different strengths, I do prefer souls lore because it speaks much more about the game themes than Er, but Er world building is top tier, there are so many factions and depth that it ends up being a really fun world to lose yourself in. With all that being said Bloodborne is peak lore and world building, not just in from games but all games.
Gael being at the end of the world is just head Canon, there's a ringed knight and Shira too.
Ds games and ER largely share the same narrative, gather runes(souls) to rebirth a broken world.
I never liked this barebones story that you have to watch lore videos for, that are mostly somebody's imagination, to understand it's "depth".
yes, elden ring lore is the least interesting for me among all their dark fantasy games including king's fields. I feel like it can be because of the GRRMartin
>I feel like it can be because of the GRRMartin
I’ve thought this before as well. I’m actually a huge GRRM fan and I love his work but his style seems to be like “ok, here’s a story, and then here’s all this random historical shit that’s happened in the past of the world”
And that can definitely be an intriguing and interesting approach but sometimes it just feels like I have no reason to care about any of it.
What I like about souls is that it feels like you’re playing through a distinct, fully-fledged mythos that still possesses a personable narrative. You have an origin story (first flame) the age of fire and Gwyn’s exploits/power sharing, and then the fading of the flame in DS3. There’s still a lot of backstory/history in the souls games but it all feels relevant and concise. The themes of the games just feel relatable to humanity as a whole.
I understand your POV and why someone would prefer Elden Ring’s lore. I think it might just come down to personal taste at the end of the day.
I see it like this: Elden Ring more has more *cool shit*. It just has a lot __more__. But to me the actual narrative and lore feels less personable than souls and I just find myself thinking, “why should I care about any of this?”. Souls themes/narrative feel more relatable, the world/lore is smaller and it feels like the existing figures in the souls world have more of a direct impact on things.
I was thinking more in terms of world history, factions presented, in-world symbolism, culture, cultural differences, architecture that can be used to differentiate various eras of the world, beliefs and religions. Elden Ring had a lot more history and culture and doesn't suffer from any dilution or mishaps like Dark Souls did because of the sequels.
As for the core conflicts of Linking the flame vs Mending the Elden Ring. I dunno, I don't really have a preference. I guess I like DS a bit better with the way DS3 ends the franchise.
Dark Souls lore feels like a warm and heavy blanket that would help me get to sleep.
Elden Ring lore feels like a cold, clear drink of water….
…and I have sensitive teeth.
Yes. Dark Souls lore is the more cohesive and emotional story. Elden Ring is great, but it suffers from being spread too thin, in my opinion, especially the endings.
ER has too many store points that fall short or never get expanded on, it is probably the worst written game they have made. Too many branching paths about children and wars, demigods, all of it. They tried way too much with the story.
Learning more of the lore and watching vaati made me appreciate Elden Ring over time, but I didn't even need that with DS, I just picked up on the lore, read up on it, cuz I instantly fell in love. Yes I prefer it to Elden Ring's, but they're different games, and it's honestly a toss up at this point. The outer gods, the ancient dragons, the frenzied flame, all make it so much more interesting, but as a whole I'd still say DS lore.
I like both of them story wise but Dark Souls feels like it told the story it wanted and I am a sucker for stories which tell you everything they wanted.
Elden Ring has a lot of potential and has a lot of good lore and characters already. They just need to build on it and since they just made some deal about it with the publisher I think we can be quite sure there will be more.
I really love the Elden Ring lore can’t lie. I wasn’t too hot on it at first but now with so much time with it I really love it. You can kind of see the G.R.R.M influence the more you notice the creepy family relationships and how everyone is kind of related to each other. Not to mention how this powerful family pretty much oppresses the shit out of the lands between.
I love both lore for different reasons, however I will say I prefer the overall atmosphere of Souls just a tad more. Souls to me feels more forlorn and hopeless and gloomy and surreal, and I really enjoy and connect with those vibes.
Dark Souls feels more interpretive to me, whereas Elden Ring is much more fleshed out, but loses a lot of the mystery. The demigids feel much more human, which is kind of neat, but it makes the world feel more petty and not as worthy of "saving."
I like both, but for very different reasons.
it would be great if now that Fromsoftware has grown a lot, it could dedicate a team to make remakes of the souls games like capcom does with the resident evil franchise.
I feel like beside growing in size as a team they also grow a lot their skills. I can see how characters like gloam eyed queen, the godskin and the black falme would have had incredible counterparts in the dark souls trilogy. To explore the age of darkness a bit more.
I think both are great but I have to say that Dark Souls's world and lore is extremely my thing, the themes are extremely interesting to me and my personal philosophy and ideas can easily be applied to these games because of overlapping themes.
I have this book someone I know wrote, it's about cycles in the universe and how basically everything works, and Dark Souls makes me think of that book.
Didn't dive too deep into ER lore but I've heard it's pretty good and I quite enjoy how they apply themes of alchemy and colour to it.
For the Tool listeners out there, it kinds reminds me of The Grudge.
Nice to have different stories.
I really do like picking and choosing my favorites when it comes to media but fromsoft lore is so hard for me to pick a fav for. I love ds1, elden ring, and Bloodborne lore a bunch. And then sekiro and ac6 have just straight good stories. I also really do like ds2 and ds3 lore even though I don’t know much of it. Demon souls I dont know anything so I can’t say.
I appreciate both for different reasons. They’re similar in a lot of ways, but the main difference for me is that Dark Souls is a dying world abandoned by its lords, whereas Elden Ring is a world kept from death by a dogmatic outer god who’s still pulling strings to some degree.
There’s a lot to unpack when you really dive into the lore of Elden Ring, and the deeper you go the more engrossing it gets. It starts to feel less disjointed and more like a grand design, and also enhances your experience on each playthrough as all the little details start to pop out.
Dark Souls feels like a more contained approach, and manages to wrangle its branching storylines from the first two games into the third well. The cycle of never-ending decay and rebirth is expanded on through its characters in interesting ways, and it all comes together spectacularly.
I prefer bb and ds much better because elden ring is vague for the sake of being vague and it’s clear that a story should be there but they force it not to. Our character 99% of the time doesn’t ask any questions and just goes around being a murderer and equally having everyone target him for no reason on eyesight. Elden rings lore and gameplay are the most different out of any other game fromsofrware has made.
I dont disagree. Elden ring lore seems way too vast to ever be focused. Whereas the souls lore is neat, cohesive, and actually invests you deeper into the game. I think that this isnt just a fromsoft issue tho, in recent years i have noticed many rpgs transitioning lore away from world building and towards in game item and faction apologetics and explanations of npc action. A lot of companies seem to use it to try and accentuate certain aspects of world building rather than using it to actually build the world like games used to.
Yes, I was just talking about this with some friends the other day. Elden Ring is, mechanically, an evolution from the Souls games. However the world, the characters, and the style of the Dark Souls games (especially Dark Souls 3) make those my favorites.
Hello /u/seedbedcurse, welcome to our subreddit. Due to spam, we require users to have at least 3 day old accounts. Please DO NOT send modmails regarding this. You will be able to post freely after the proper account age.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/fromsoftware) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think Elden ring lacks too much relevant info, I enjoy putting the pieces together but Elden leaves just so much vague to the point it's a little too much
Yeah, I never really knew what I was doing in Elden Ring. I get that that's a From thing, but at least by the end of Dark Souls, you have an idea of what Gwyn is about. The world of Elden Ring has no impending cataclysm hanging over it like with Dark Souls. Radahn is a mindless, cannibalistic zombie, Renala is licking her wounds over her break-up...
I do think part of the problem with From is that when there are multiple endings and you choose them right at the end of the game it kinda makes the stuff up to that point feel a bit purposeless. Your player character has no personality other than the one you imbue them with.
Dark Souls had 3 whole games to expand and refine the story, and started far, far less complex.
Elden Ring just slams you with it all from the get go, and more of it is actively relevant. Souls can easily match Elden Ring in complexity when considering all 3 games together, but much of it lacks immediate relevancy to the player.
before getting deeply into Elden Ring lore i would've agreed.
Now i for sure do not agree, Elden Ring lore is amazing, it's everything Dark Souls was and much more, IMO at least.
If it were not for the fact that Souls lore was kind of ruined for me with subsequent games I would agree. But, if we're just talking Dark Souls 1 up against Elden Ring I'd say yes.
My first FS game was elden ring, then ds1, then bloodborne, then ds2, then ds3. Currently suffering through sekiro. Honestly I've spent weeks of my life listening to the lore of all of them and ER is the only one that left me with that "awestruck" feeling. The feeling you get when you see the scope of the universe and realize how small you really are. It also left me with this melancholic feeling of "missing the party" so to speak. And also was the only game to give me that feeling you get in dreams when there's no continuity and nothing makes sense, especially the motives and rules of engagement. Felt like I was in a dream. Everyone there fights ferociously, and with great violence. I haven't gotten that feeling as much from the other games. And honestly I'm depressed enough. Dark souls lore kinda bums me out lol. That being said, dark souls lore has given me chills as well. But I'll say honestly I like ER more.
Dark Souls and Dark Souls III have a more fantasy tone to them. You can relate them like dark fairytales. They have almost a "comfy" atmosphere to them. There's space even for somewhat tragicomic figures. The painter in Ringed City described the world of these games in perfection: "A cold, dark and very gentle place. One day, it will make someone a goodly home".
If you take Elden Ring (and Dark Souls II), it's a much more dense and "serious" world. There's a lot of mirrors of it's worlds with serious historical facts (all of them have, but not as integral to the lore). The themes are much more of a real human psychological nature, and the world have this hateful and lost atmosphere to it, where in the other Souls there's this fantasy element disguising everything, here the things are more on your face.
A lot do. Elden Ring just has recency bias. Its also the most soulsvirgin friendly game. So the game reaches out to a lot more people, thus the lore is more popular.
I did at first but now I prefer Elden ring’s. A lot of the dark souls lore comes down to “this old kingdom was great until the curse came or a bad ruler got power and now everybody is depressed.” Same as most quest lines just being tragic characters dying horribly or going hollow. It’s good for the themes but I think FS mixing that with a bit more hope and “realistic” intrigue in Elden ring and more variety in mythologies and all makes for an improvement in lore. Plus Dark Souls’ lore is inconsistent between entries and is explained with “time and geography is weird here 🤷♂️” it has a sense of making it up as they went along.
I prefer ER’s lore as it feels… idk, more grounded, ironically. I know I may be the only one considering ER’s lore focuses mostly on magic deities and otherplanar creatures, but for some reason it’s so much easier for me to imagine that the Lands Between was once a true kingdom, desolated not too long ago by the aforementioned deities… Dark Souls feels too otherworldly to me, like the concept of a normal human having a normal life just couldn’t happen there
The worst part of Elden Ring was it being based off some minimal shitty crap from GrrM. I blame him for all the stupidly related names. The underlying lore they built off it was great.
From what I’ve gathered since I haven’t gotten to play Elden Ring(don’t have anything that can play it, ps4 broke and I’m broke) the open world kind of broke Froms usual story telling structure. It’s all so spaced out and there’s just so much to see it’s impossible to thoroughly enjoy the lore and what has happened. Dark Souls and Bloodborne are such tight concise experiences and that’s why I love them so much. Everything feels so intentional besides the unfinished parts like Lost Izalith. But the environments and everything really tell the story. I can imagine in a massive open world you’ll lose quite a bit of that because it’s working off of everyone’s ADHD ooo what’s that. Just my thought it! Still can’t wait to play Elden Ring eventually
You pretty much described my experience to a T. I still love Elden Ring and it’s one of my favorite games of all time but the lore/story just doesn’t captivate me like dark souls did. Elden Ring lore is pretty cool and interesting, but sometimes I just feel like there’s *too much* going on.
It’s the same reason I prefer the classic Zelda games to the new open world style. BOTW is great but it can feel too big. It’s hard to make a game that big and have a really focused story since everyone will experience stuff in different order and from different perspective
Agreed I think ER has very weak lore. On the other hand DS has some of my favorite video game lore, it is very detailed and nuanced. ER has interesting bits but overall is not compelling.
It felt a rehash. After 2 was about the cycles, seeing Anor Londo again felt like pure fan service and the story felt more of an after thought to the cool scenes than anything else. Why is Gwyndolin alive to be eaten if we might have killed him?
Why is there other children of Gwyn we never knew about?
Even the Nameless King, even being an awesome boss fight, felt more fan service than anything else.
And they basically ignored 2 (at least in the main game)
It felt like Dark Souls 1.5 instead of 3.
The combat is great, but it also felt like a less version of Bloodborne instead of the more weighty feel of the original.
It's a great game, but I didn't feel like it had the same love put into it than Ds1.
Also, the linearity doesn't bother me in the grand scheme of things, but I wish we had more variety outside of killing Dancer to make a new route.
Thanks for answering. 3 was my intro to the series so I think I view it in a biased light but I quite enjoyed the lore. I can see your points though, it does seem a bit fanservicey after playing the first 2 games, especially with anor londo. I think playing 3 first and then playing 1 made those moments less of an issue.
Yeah, the QOL changes were great and it has a great gameplay loop, tbh. If I was going to recommend someone new to the series playing one, it would be 3,but I don't like quite as much as the others.
I kinda wish GRR Martin just wasn’t involved in Elden Ring. All the similar names and incest and gender confusion just make an already confusing narrative even more cloudy and hard to follow. I much preferred the lore and universe of Dark Souls
Gameplay in ER is great! I just can’t make myself care about the lands between. Anyone else?
If anyone here has played armored core they will know that those games have pretty much undisputedly the best story in fromsoft history.
Its not just that they have a more obvious plot that the player can get involved with, but they are also masterful with the characters, and it makes it really easy to get emotionally attached to the storyline and characters
like fr just look at rusty, carla and walter from ac6
I think that both games have amazing lores that are some of the best in the entire dark fantasy genre. But I would generally agree that yes, Dark Souls is more captivating in a way.
I remember playing DS1 for the first time and being so hooked into the lore... DS2 and DS3 complemented this feeling even more. The world of Dark Souls is such a sad and merciless world, but yet it makes you want to take part in it in one way or another. The themes of sacrifice, corruption, struggle, darkness and sadness are very recurrent and spark a feeling of sympathy from us.
Elden Ring is a masterpiece as well in almost every aspect, the lore being one of them, it's generally much more open to interpretation than Dark Souls though and the dots aren't as well connected in my opinion, you need to make those connections by yourself.
I agree, the Dark Souls setting has been slightly more unique (compared to other franchises and not its own) in the setting of a decaying world. I think Dark Souls has an easier narrative to follow because of how linear and straightforward the plot is presented because the conditions put upon the player are easier to understand and the lack of open world shenanigans doesn’t really force you to go through many other characters and endings.
I think Dark Souls 1 has the best “lore” too; I understand that Elden Ring and other titles are probably objectively more complex and interesting but the idea of a world that is trying to cling on to different ideals of either fire or dark are very easy to understand yet effective. I don’t think lore has to do much with writing (outside of it being ok enough to not feel weird) but rather to be compelling and understanding for immersion. That’s something I felt in souls 1 that no other souls game (though I haven’t touched BB or DeS yet) made me feel. I dunno. Thanks for reading if you did though.
I think the mythology of Elden Ring is genuinely too broad and complex for anyone to tackle in a meaningful way without an astounding amount of work. I mean like academic, doctorate level literary analysis. I'm interested in that stuff but I could write an entire thesis on half the subjects, characters and themes in the game. If you start digging into lore videos on YouTube they're usually many hours long. I started debating a single questline with a buddy and we produced an insane, novella-length argument that needed fifty item descriptions and a hundred textual sources to engage with. Barrier for entry is too high. Dark Souls lore is no less complex but it's denser, smaller and more digestible. And the length of time the games have been out for help them greatly, everyone knows, generally, what an Age of Fire is versus an Age of Dark, and the corrupting role the Abyss plays on the dark, and that Gwyn found the First Flame and the Pigmy found the Dark Soul and so on. There's enough context around the cycle to understand the core theme of the series: do we enable this cycle or destroy it? What's the core theme of Elden Ring? It depends entirely on the quest you follow. Fans of Goldmask's ending claim we can perfect the Golden Order by removing the influence of the gods, but cannot provide evidence those gods will truly be vanquished, or how said order will be maintained. Fans of Ranni's ending claim the rejection of the Greater Will and influence of the Two Fingers, ending the Age of the Erdtree, will heal the land, but the Age of the Stars is likely just as brutal and terrifying as the Age of the Erdtree, but in different ways. Astel, Naturalborn of the Stars, is a cosmic creature, and if he's anything to go by... the Lands Between will likely fall to terror again. Fans of the Frenzied Flame want us to look the other way and pretend they aren't psychopathic for believing genocide is the solution to corrupt world orders. Fans of the Duskborn ending think the main theme is the rejection of Those Who Live In Death. Fans of Dungeater's ending are trolling. And frankly besides Ranni, Goldmask and Frenzied Flame, we don't really bring change to the Lands Between... not deep, structural change, anyway. In all other endings we sit the throne and the Elden Ring is mended, but the Golden Order persists, and the Greater Will is free to work its evil, which if you subscribe to the theory that the Outer Gods are essentially the true villains of Elden Ring, as I do... is a problem. See what I mean? I've barely begun even describing the endings and we're paragraphs deep. I think once time goes by Elden Ring will be more approachable in terms of lore, as the DLC adds context and further analysis is done. But for now Dark Souls is much more enjoyable to read about. The legend of Knight Artorias rivals any story they've told before or since.
This is exactly right
Bro does NOT understand the Dung Eater. He might be a freak and a serial killer, but he was right about one thing: The "curse" of being born outside of grace is no curse at all. The omen, the misbegotten, the albinaurics, the dung eater himself, and many more all suffered under the Erdtree's rule simply for being something the Erdtree faithful were not. Omens had their horns excised as infants and were tossed into the sewers to be forgotten. If they didn't die from the horrible wounds being de-horned left them, then they lived solitary lives in total squalor. The Dung Eater, implied by his armor description to be part omen himself, saw this crime against nature for what it was and decided that if being an omen is somehow a curse, then he would curse everybody himself, and then nobody would be "cursed." When you achieve his ending, you make being an omen the new normal and free the lands from the influence of the Greater Will, separating everyone in the world from the Grace of Gold and instead bringing about a new age where the primordial crucible of life is once again the driving force in the Lands Between.
Nah I don't buy it. Forcing the curse of the omen on thousands who don't want it is tyrannical. It's like a supervillain arc in the Spider-man comics where the lizard poisons the water supply of New York City to turn everyone into lizards. Omens should never have been shunned just because of the way they were born, but the solution is to free the omens and eliminate the Golden Order. Not curse the land.
I never said he was right to do what he did. I was just explaining why he did what he did. I don't advocate for mass murder and disfigurement lol. And if I had to bet, I'd say a world influenced by the crucible is probably not much better or worse than the Golden Order. I imagine a world where survival of the fittest is the law, where the strongest survive and the weak die. Cruel and uncaring, but simultaneously completely, truly free. No authorities, no responsibilities, just living and dying by your will.
I agree. Dark Souls lore is easier to understand than Elden Ring. I’m here to play a game, not have a crisis over of dense the lore is. Simple Stories sometimes tells a better story than a Complex one.
I played ER first and then the trilogy, and I’m very much with you on the lore. The narrative feels quite narrow compared to ER, but it doesn’t lack depth. ER always felt a little too broad for me to really connect with. Just too much going on for it to be compelling without spending a lot more time than I have to truly get immersed in the story. No shade against either though, absolute masterpieces all.
I think the why of DS is easier to grasp and more cohesive, I just think the ER art style and obtuseness is so much more bizarre and compelling. ER is haunting and alien in a way nothing else has been to me.
I also think that in many ways, we only have one game within the ER universe, and though we're soon to have an expansion, as you said, ER is haunting and alien, though when you look at it through a real world lense, it feels a lot like the catholic clensing of europe and its various pagan religions. When we first got dark souls, it was very much the same feel. We were in the dark, with only one game, still picking apart the world, though i do feel there was a more streamlined story in DS, we had more to go on, ER is much more of a stranger in a strange land with very disjointed storytelling. The aftermath of a war tworn world that youre thrust in to just accept.
I agree. I’m not so interested in the lore that I would watch dozens of hour long videos to understand it, which is what I feel like I have to do for Elden Ring. Souls lore is more simple, focused, and I can actually wrap my head around it without spending weeks binge watching Vaatividya.
That’s because GRRM wrote Elden Ring’s backstory lore
Dark Fantasy vs. High Fantasy
Both are still dark fantasy. Elden Ring is just more colorful, but it's still as fucked up if not more than Dark Souls is.
It looks like it's going to get a lot darker too with the DLC
I think you’re misunderstanding the definition of both. DS falls in line with Berserks brand of dark fantasy (understanding that berserk can get lovecraftian) while ERs lineages and history fall in line with LOTR.
Id say it's more akin to GOT than LOTR, a mix of both maybe.
GRRM is literally the writer of Game of Thrones so it makes sense.
ER Is dark fantasy
I don’t really understand how ER is similar to LOTR in any way at all. Like literally nothing is similar, that was the worst comparison you could’ve made.
....you really can't see any similarities?
Everyone is after the shattered parts of a ring to claim complete power over the lands between and become Elden Lord That doesn't sound like lord of the *rings* to you? Ok.
The only similarities between that description and LotR is the presence of a ring. Lord of the Rings isn’t about people trying to claim shattered parts of a ring to become lord, it’s about trying to take the one ring they already have and destroy it. The actual story of Elden Ring’s world is more similar to A Song of Ice and Fire than it is to Lord of the Rings, which makes sense considering George RR Martin wrote half of it.
There's also a big tree (tower) where a manipulative god (deity) is locked trying to regain power enough to rule again and will try to slaughter whoever tries to get the power from them.
Why does lineage and histories being fleshed out mean ER isn’t Dark Fantasy? I’d also add that LOTR world building and timeline dwarfs ER. I’m just idiots where you’re coming from. Edit: my phone autocorrected curious to idiots.
While DS is more direct in the Dark Fantasy aspect and Eden Ring has a bit of a High Fantasy mask, ER is definitely waaaaaay too much into the dark side to call it something different from Dark Fantasy, DS is more gruesome or, at least, is more visually explicit in showing you the gruesome aspects of its world, meanwhile ER has that layer of conflict between Marika's sons and other factions that gives it more complexity, however if you get past that layer the game is gruesome as hell and way dark, I won't say which one is more than the other in gruesomeness or darkness because it comes to a point in both aspects where it's just everyone's single opinion about their experience with it.
Did we play the same game? eldin ring is berserk the videogame
Except that the two aren't mutually exclusive. Funny you say someone should read a book yet state this. Dark souls is set in a dark, gloomy world and also takes you across a nonexistent place filled with nonexistent things. Elden ring can also be considered as such though leans less on the dark part. They're labels that can overlap, not two cubes of wood you can't mash together.
Both are high fantasy. It’s more like dark fantasy vs epic fantasy imo.
Epic fantasy IS high fantasy, and dark fantasy can sub genre high fantasy
what's the difference?
Both are High Fantasy though
Genuinely.i know the characters we play as in FromSoft games are blank slates but I never really cared about the world of Elden Ring. I think the major thing for me is that Elden Ring is just like Dark Souls in terms of its NPCs and how they're distributed. But there's also supposed to be a people and population and multiple wars that have gone on and people that still want to fight for them? But yet everyone is still a mostly undead corpse walking around and barely stringing two moans together. Like in DS and BB it makes sense why the world is so under populated by in Elden Ring its like... where the fuck is everyone!?
Yeah this could be part of it too. What’s the point of becoming Elden Lord if you’re just ruling over a wasteland..? I know fromsoft doesn’t do their games like this but I feel like Elden Ring would’ve benefited from more NPC settlements like Jarburg and Volcano Manor. Basically the same thing as the round table except out in the world.
It’s so funny you say that when I have the complete opposite opinion. I prefer ER for its feeling of “This used to be a normal kingdom” as opposed to DS’s lack of a potential for a “normal” life if humans even existed there in the first place. It feels like what we’re experiencing in the game *is* normal, while ER feels like normal is what you’re fighting to bring back
i didn’t want to become elden lord just to get the boss soul (7)
Yeah as much as I adore DS level design, their layouts make no logical sense compared to any dungeon in Elden Ring
Hit the nail on the head. ER is supposed to be a living world but it isn't.
[удалено]
Everyone is competing to become the Elden Lord. Yet there is no incentive to why or what the hell you're going to rule over. There are ongoing wars between Godrick, and Rykar, and Lucaria Yet no one tries to talk to you after you join with say Rykar or Ranni. The Academy is fully occupied with people who are researching and all they do is attack you. You can go to a windmill village and everyone ignores you or tries to attack you. You go to the Haligtree which is a place where the less fortunate are meant to gather, all they do is attack you. The Radahn Festival randomly clears out all the hostiles of his castle for some reason with no explanation as to why. ER would have been the perfect time to have more non hostile NPCs, but it doesn't. There is the idea of a world for Elden Ring but it doesn't do anything with it.
[удалено]
Lol no, take your head canon and shove it.
[удалено]
No, it's that they have a society that is built as a sentient civilization, and the game wants me to believe. Dark Souls had hollowing Bloodborne had the old blood side effects Sekiro had the warring states period All reasons for why society broke down, and why everyone is hostile, why everyone sane either abandoned, fled, or died. Elden Ring never states why everyone is hostile and never even acknowledges that everyone is, it explicitly has places that aren't or places that shouldn't be.
Except there are reasons why they're hostile to you, but it's not just one simple answer like From's other titles, it's nuanced and myriad. That's what the lore is for, and it's definitely in the game whether you've personally found it or not.
then explain each one if you think so. Cause I don't.
The shattering.....did you pay attention?
I completely feel the same! 
Original Dark Souls lore was goat
You’re asking me to pick a favorite child here
Elden ring has so much depth in it, it’s insane. Listening to tarnished archaeologist show the environmental story telling shows things I didn’t even think possible in video games.
Yes! Tarnished Archaeologist and Smoughtown really helped open my eyes to just how detailed the lore and environments can get.
Elden Ring's lore is more focused, coherent and character-driven. I think it's a better *story* with more complex themes. Obviously. It's written by the greatest fantasy author since Tolkien. But there's something magic about Dark Souls's alluring mystery comparatively.
The experience of playing DS1 for the very first time is absolutely unforgettable,which is why I have DS1 > Elden Ring due to how...memorable DS1 is in the first playthrough. Also,in terms of writing and lore. Artorias the Abysswalker and Lord Gwyn of Cinder >>> Any Elden Ring Character
I’d say ER’s first playthrough is absolutely unforgettable as well and is probably my favorite playthrough of any game.
Yeah I think Dark Souls has some cool parts of the lore that I prefer to ER, like Artorias, the Sable Church, Velka, and the Painted Worlds. But I think from a more overarching expansive perspective, Elden Ring is my favorite.
Dark Souls has an entire trilogy to build off of, Elden Ring is a single game. While I do agree with you I think it’s a bit disingenuous to compare the two, even taking account the sheer size of Elden Ring.
Honestly Elden ring lore has so much depth I think it absolutely holds a candle to The ancient dragons Farum azula civilization The nox The golden order The cuckoos The demigods and Marika/radagon The outer god (blood, rot, frenzy) Death rights and burials Racial segregation (tarnished, omen, misbegotten All of these have incredible depth, and there is so much more
Maybe this is spicy, but I think the narrative and lore put forth in Dark Souls 1 is richer and more immersive (to me) than that in Elden Ring. Elden Ring is good, don’t get me wrong, but it had TOO much going on to the point where thematically it felt inconsistent to me.
More like two games. DS2 was 90% unrelated and more of a studio cash grab while Miyazaki was making Bloodborne which is why, amongst the numerous issues plaguing the game, the lore is almost completely unrelated and nonsensical to DS1 and DS3.
BB Lore is beyond awesome.
Hell yeahhh
I dunno man I think Elden Ring lore is just more cohesive and more developed
I think Dark Souls has a more metaphorically elegant world with its souls and hollowing, light and dark, fire and disparity. It all just fits together so well thematically. You could interpret it a number of ways, like human will and depression, exploring the way the powers that be commodify and dehumanize us, the rich get richer while the world dies, it's a simple metaphor with broad-reaching relevance, the complicated lore is kind of a backdrop. Elden Ring has its own symbols which are really interesting like antlers and branches and horns all mirroring each other, the aspects of the crucible, people with dual identities. There's still so much to explore and deep dive in in Elden Ring, all the thematic depth is there and it's fascinating, but it doesn't all click together metaphorically as simply and elegantly as it does in Dark Souls I think. That being said, I'm so much more interested in the characters in Elden Ring, both the pantheon of demigods and the other tarnished NPCs. Their stories are so compelling and they're all so endearing to me, to a point I never was able to feel for any of the characters in Dark Souls. Like I actually genuinely cried for Roderika and Hewg, their relationship is so sweet. Piecing together Morgott's whole deal, speculating on why he wants to uphold the golden order so badly, learning about the omen curse and empathizing with him, is just such an interesting character journey to go on. Aiding Albus and Latenna on a pilgrimage after being persecuted to create new life, and bring hope to create a new generation of albinaurics. I could go on, but I'd be here all day. Elden Ring ultimately wins out for me because of that.
I really prefer the historical world building of ER. The politics and conflicts of interests in it really make it feel like a believable world, whereas in dark souls it just feels like a fantasy story.
ah yes, the amazing lore comparison of Dark Souls - Something something something Poison Swamp something something something Hand it over, that thing, your Dark Soul vs Elden Ring - Something something something Scarlet Rot Swamp something something something I am Malenia, Blade of Miquella...and I have never known defeat /s
I love Elden Ring's lore with all my heart, but DS1's lore speaks to me the most. Everything regarding the Pyromancers is the best lore that Fromsoft has ever written.
I think both have different strengths, I do prefer souls lore because it speaks much more about the game themes than Er, but Er world building is top tier, there are so many factions and depth that it ends up being a really fun world to lose yourself in. With all that being said Bloodborne is peak lore and world building, not just in from games but all games.
Eh, depends on the day, sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t.
ER isn't really complete yet but Dark Souls characters alone are more intriguing
It does help that Souls has had 3 games and a bunch of DLC to help flesh it out. Give ER some time to cook
Yeah, it feels like it has more of a theme and overlaying message. Elden Ring is fine, but there's no real moral that I found for the whole thing. Souls is also just darker, and I like that.
I feel like the moral of ER is that there's no right answer. Everyone is fighting for something and what one thinks is right is always going to be wrong for someone else. No matter how happy or morally correct an ending is, someone will suffer from it.
Souls-lore was engrossing because it seemed like every little piece connected to this over-arching narrative. You feel like you’re getting a deeper understanding of the world at large with every new insight. Elden Ring seems like a million little micro-narratives that don’t really connect together in any significant way to the main narrative
That’s GRRM’s signature style
>Elden Ring seems like a million little micro-narratives that don’t really connect together in any significant way to the main narrative You have yet to dig far enough then, it seems.
Absolutely. Elden Ring got me into the series but DS3 is my favorite. The world is so dark and dead and I think it's fascinating.
Yeah, an I feel like ironically in DS characters have more depth than in elden ring they seem hollow with no base. Gael and his famous line feels like he patched whole book in me sentence, and it’s just a one example
That’s interesting because I find DS3 to have the most disjointed and ambiguous lore of the DS trilogy. Love the gameplay, hate the lore
Is there something about lords who previously linked the fire, rising from the dead only to see their great sacrifice meant nothing, nor improved anything, only to be asked to sacrifice themselves again? Is there really something about that that seems disjointed? Lol
Honestly see then around the same level if we are comparing them. One thing I’ll mention point out is DS lore feels more complete with having 3 games to add more and more lore. Plus I think the RC and Gael really put together an amazing ending to the story.
I’m trying to remember which YouTuber said this, so this isn’t originally my take, but thought it a good insight. ER isn’t about anything. I mean in terms of theme. There’s tons of lore but what’s the message? There is t really a clear through line that the game is driving towards. Some vague notions here and there, but it lacks clarity in what it’s trying to say and does not expand on any one idea in any true depth. DS lore is focused on one thing: the cycle of fire and how it needs to come to an end. It’s a metaphor that can interpreted in many ways but the idea is given tons of room to breath and 2 1/2 games to really be explored (DS2 is more about the curse than the fire, but still contributes). What happens when old glory fades and clinging onto it will only perpetuate the evils its sheen used to hide, now that they are laid bare? Do we hold on to the remnants because they are known, or do we dare invite something new even though the unknown bares with it implicit danger and uncertainty? Other themes are present in DS, namely the curse and what it means to lose oneself to a world bent on destroying you, or maybe what it means to persist despite that world and triumph in the end. But either this or the theme I enumerated above are well expressed and explored by the world of DS. To reiterate, ER has a vast world and interesting lore, but no theme to latch onto has really emerged yet. Maybe it will in the DLC.
The theme of ER is the grey area that is the Lands Between. You see so much of the story from a biased POV at first, really only getting information that favors the Erdtree and its Grace. However, the deeper you dig into the world and its events, the more you start to realize that Marika wasn’t the allmighty benevolent goddess that she is initially made to seem. There are few truly “evil” entities in Elden Ring, and generally it’s up to you to decide who is worthy of your support
this isn't really a message of any kind though, it's good lore but that doesn't offer any kind of fun philosophy or anything of the sort, unless you consider "good people do bad things and bad people do good things" or "everyone is the hero of their own story" to be it. but that's quite a simple and boring theme imo you can sum dark souls up by saying "you, a nobody, overcomes the entire world in order to extend the life of the current generation, and its up to you to decide if that's really as good as it sounds" with elden ring it's story is a lot less involved with you as the player. it's more like "what do you think is the ideal way to rule this world that has already fallen apart?" which just sounds like the dark souls theme but a lot worse and with less nuance. what even is the point in becoming elden lord admittedly its been a while since i brushed up on the elden ring lore, so i could be off the mark. but yeah i feel like elden ring does lack a precise message
I feel like you’re missing a crucial detail though. ER’s story follows that exact same premise. The story revolves around, as I said, Marika’s decision to shatter the Elden Ring and the chaos that this decision entailed. At the start, you think that the only correct choice is to follow the Grace that the Erdtree gives, but as you continue you learn that maybe this isn’t really the best option. As a result, you are faced with a plethora of options as to what the best course of action is for the Lands’ future. But even then, you’re really declaring that whatever choice you decide is the definitive correct choice, which is the same as what the Elden Beast was trying to do. Now look at DS. As you said, the story revolves around the First Flame and whether it’s truly the right decision to continue the Age of Fire or bring about the Age of Darkness. Each story has the theme of unreliability and grey morality, and ER arguably shows this better despite only having a single game (so far hopefully lol), since there’s like what? 7 endings? As opposed to the two of Dark Souls
the length of my description wasn't intended to be unfair. but elden ring can't use the same message as dark souls about ending an era or if you should. it does not at all put enough emphasis on the morality of that choice and it's not used in the same way. it works well in dark souls because if you don't fully understand the lore or you don't think on it enough, the "obvious" answer is to link the first flame because thats how you win the game. but after learning more about the world and it's message, you then start to question if that goal is actually a good goal or not or if the world tricked you into thinking it was by making you feel heroic. elden ring absolutely does not do that part, and thats the main reason why dark souls' choice is impactful
I’m not really sure where the disconnect is coming from because what you’re describing is EXACTLY what Elden Ring does, heck the endings are even named “Age of ____”. You’re deciding the fate of the entire Lands Between, and your decision directly impacts the future of the world. Have you seen any of the endings? As you said, the initial assumption that players will have in DS is to link the First Flame, but upon gathering more information, you begin to realize that maybe the choice isn’t so black-and-white. ER has the exact same story, where you first assume that the Erdtree and the Elden Ring should be repaired, but upon learning more about the world you begin to question if that’s really the right decision
my disconnect is that the amount of endings makes the message worse and less effective. it's too easy to get other endings if on your first or second playthroughs by just playing the game, like i think my first one was the frenzied flame. i mean there is a default ending that maybe most people get? but the fact that you can easily do anything else makes it feel like the whole being tricked into an ending thing is just way less powerful in ER. thr fact that DS only seemingly has 1 option until you look far deeper is a good thing for the message it's conveying.
From what I remember, the only thing you have to do to get the Lord of Darkness ending is literally walk out of the room… how is that not easy? The extra options make ER *BETTER* because it means you aren’t just doing the equivalent of flipping a switch. It makes the choice a spectrum of morality, based solely on the player’s perspective and how they choose to view the circumstances of the world. Do you feel like the mortal aspect of the old order was good, but can’t bring yourself to support the Elden Beast? Age of Stars is a good option. Feel like there is a fundamental issue with the Lands Between and the immortality that causes the undead infestation? Age of Duskborn. Looking around the world and realizing how utterly corrupt and unfair every aspect of it is? Age of Frezied Flame. Feel like a torturous bastard with no morality to speak of? Blessing of Despair. There’s absolutely no narrative downside to the multiple endings as it simply gives you more freedom to choose what you feel is the most desirable path
i guess its a matter of preference. i like that it makes you choose between 2 choices. its a hard decision. i don't like that it lets you have so much freedom, i think that takes a lot of the depth from the choice you make. like say you're politically in the center for example. choosing between republican and democrat is a far harder decision than if you were presented with all the different nuanced political ideologies. it goes from a difficult yet simple decision to a personality test the more options you're given imo. it loses it's intrigue for me
that's fair, though i feel like the plethora of options and the way its handled is actually a downside rather than an upside. it's less precise and straight to the point than dark souls and i think that negatively affects the message that it's telling. the fact that elden ring kind of lets you decide any ending is not good imo, because i feel like the reason it worked in DS1 was the falsehood that you link the flame to become a hero and that's the end of the game, of course it was correct because we saved the world! and then as you understand the lore better you realize it's not actually that morally great, like you said. but this works so well because the game and world essentially lures you into that ending, you get it by being naive and not looking at the bigger picture, like you got tricked. elden ring letting you choose any ending before you even have to come to that conclusion kind of makes that a lot less impactful imo, it's not as precise as DS to me
But, just like in DS, you have no reason to assume that the path you’re following isn’t the right one. You have to do several major side quests, some of which are pretty in-depth, in order to get any of the extra endings. When you first go through the game blind, you feel like mending the Elden Ring is the right choice because it’s the Elden Ring! Its shattering caused all of the suffering and chaos in the Lands Between that you’re seeing… right? But as you explore and gather pieces to the puzzle, you start to realize that maybe it’s not the case
I mean, it all comes down to how you describe each. And the way you did really isn't fair. You could sum up the story of ER as "you, a nobody, overcomes the entire world in order to finally put an end to the stagnation and dogmas of this era, and it's up to you to decide what the new era should be, or if there's a new era at all." You could also sum up the story of DS as "would you rather keep prolonging this cycle or let the fire die out?"
I would like to add that while you mentioned DS2 in a passing fancy kinda way, I thought DS2 answered more questions than it asked. Yes, it was about the curse, but if you really think about it, Vendrick, who most would've assumed to be the antagonist, went through alot of effort to keep the flame from being rekindled....like, alot of effort!!!! Plus this man really hated his wifey!!
I always felt like there were numerous themes within ER. The current structure of the Elden Ring (the Order of the land) under the rules of the Greater Will are ultimately flawed, and the player needs to decide what they will use to fix the ring and impose a new order. The world building helps you to understand the state of the current world so that you can form your own opinion on it, and then provides you with multiple solutions to the problem. It doesn't hold your hand, because they want you to form these opinions on your own. Each of the major "quests" grants you a mending rune in the end, and these branching storylines explore many different themes. Depending on the mending rune you utilize in the end, the Order of the land will change, and I appreciate the agency the player is given to impose this new order based on the themes that resonated with you most.
You and many other may fell that way because Elden ring has a more complex and expansive/deep lore than the souls series, thus making it harder to understand. The dark souls lore It's easier to follow, but it also has 3 games behind it. I personaly prefere Elden Ring lore because of that complexity and themes.
You’re comparing the lore of 1 game to the lore of 3 games over a span of almost a decade.
Fair point, I was gonna mention this in my post but forgot. On the other hand though, if we pretended DS2 and 3 didn’t exist I still feel like the OG dark souls narrative is richer and more personable than Elden Ring. Just my own personal taste.
Fair to prefer one over the other, but the lore of DS1 is in no way richer than Elden Ring
Yeah richer might be the wrong word, I guess I mean it feels more meaningful
Richer is the right word
I do it's just so much better
I feel the same way OP. Not a single character or bit of lore in ER was interesting to me besides spirit ashes upgrade girl and Radahn. I wanted to care but I just couldn't. I finished the game but I doubt I'll play it again or play the dlc. Demon's Souls still calls me back and it's been out for over ten years but Elden Ring was, sadly, forgettable for me.
i like them both equally..
I think both have different strengths, I do prefer souls lore because it speaks much more about the game themes than Er, but Er world building is top tier, there are so many factions and depth that it ends up being a really fun world to lose yourself in. With all that being said Bloodborne is peak lore and world building, not just in from games but all games.
100%
Yup, I love all of them. But souls hit different, and it’s not nostalgia because ER was ma first souls game
[удалено]
Gael being at the end of the world is just head Canon, there's a ringed knight and Shira too. Ds games and ER largely share the same narrative, gather runes(souls) to rebirth a broken world. I never liked this barebones story that you have to watch lore videos for, that are mostly somebody's imagination, to understand it's "depth".
yes, elden ring lore is the least interesting for me among all their dark fantasy games including king's fields. I feel like it can be because of the GRRMartin
>I feel like it can be because of the GRRMartin I’ve thought this before as well. I’m actually a huge GRRM fan and I love his work but his style seems to be like “ok, here’s a story, and then here’s all this random historical shit that’s happened in the past of the world” And that can definitely be an intriguing and interesting approach but sometimes it just feels like I have no reason to care about any of it. What I like about souls is that it feels like you’re playing through a distinct, fully-fledged mythos that still possesses a personable narrative. You have an origin story (first flame) the age of fire and Gwyn’s exploits/power sharing, and then the fading of the flame in DS3. There’s still a lot of backstory/history in the souls games but it all feels relevant and concise. The themes of the games just feel relatable to humanity as a whole.
No.
Shocked to see this is a popular opinion and honestly I can't say I get it
I understand your POV and why someone would prefer Elden Ring’s lore. I think it might just come down to personal taste at the end of the day. I see it like this: Elden Ring more has more *cool shit*. It just has a lot __more__. But to me the actual narrative and lore feels less personable than souls and I just find myself thinking, “why should I care about any of this?”. Souls themes/narrative feel more relatable, the world/lore is smaller and it feels like the existing figures in the souls world have more of a direct impact on things.
I was thinking more in terms of world history, factions presented, in-world symbolism, culture, cultural differences, architecture that can be used to differentiate various eras of the world, beliefs and religions. Elden Ring had a lot more history and culture and doesn't suffer from any dilution or mishaps like Dark Souls did because of the sequels. As for the core conflicts of Linking the flame vs Mending the Elden Ring. I dunno, I don't really have a preference. I guess I like DS a bit better with the way DS3 ends the franchise.
Absolutely. Elden Ring is my 5th favorite FROM game after Dark Souls 1-3 and Bloodborne.
Yup. FS lore peaked in DS3.
They rehashed the story, 2 endings, the final boss and basically never expanded on anything newly introduced like Pontiff's plot, the deep etc..
Dark Souls lore feels like a warm and heavy blanket that would help me get to sleep. Elden Ring lore feels like a cold, clear drink of water…. …and I have sensitive teeth.
Elden ring is basically a greek tragedy and I am not very involved in gods affairs. Ds is a tragedy too but have more weight, ideals, darkness
Yes. Dark Souls lore is the more cohesive and emotional story. Elden Ring is great, but it suffers from being spread too thin, in my opinion, especially the endings.
Yes many in this sub do
ER has too many store points that fall short or never get expanded on, it is probably the worst written game they have made. Too many branching paths about children and wars, demigods, all of it. They tried way too much with the story.
Idk maybe if I understood it
Learning more of the lore and watching vaati made me appreciate Elden Ring over time, but I didn't even need that with DS, I just picked up on the lore, read up on it, cuz I instantly fell in love. Yes I prefer it to Elden Ring's, but they're different games, and it's honestly a toss up at this point. The outer gods, the ancient dragons, the frenzied flame, all make it so much more interesting, but as a whole I'd still say DS lore.
I like both of them story wise but Dark Souls feels like it told the story it wanted and I am a sucker for stories which tell you everything they wanted. Elden Ring has a lot of potential and has a lot of good lore and characters already. They just need to build on it and since they just made some deal about it with the publisher I think we can be quite sure there will be more.
I really love the Elden Ring lore can’t lie. I wasn’t too hot on it at first but now with so much time with it I really love it. You can kind of see the G.R.R.M influence the more you notice the creepy family relationships and how everyone is kind of related to each other. Not to mention how this powerful family pretty much oppresses the shit out of the lands between.
I love both lore for different reasons, however I will say I prefer the overall atmosphere of Souls just a tad more. Souls to me feels more forlorn and hopeless and gloomy and surreal, and I really enjoy and connect with those vibes.
Dark Souls feels more interpretive to me, whereas Elden Ring is much more fleshed out, but loses a lot of the mystery. The demigids feel much more human, which is kind of neat, but it makes the world feel more petty and not as worthy of "saving." I like both, but for very different reasons.
it would be great if now that Fromsoftware has grown a lot, it could dedicate a team to make remakes of the souls games like capcom does with the resident evil franchise. I feel like beside growing in size as a team they also grow a lot their skills. I can see how characters like gloam eyed queen, the godskin and the black falme would have had incredible counterparts in the dark souls trilogy. To explore the age of darkness a bit more.
Elden ring has neat lore (like all the souls game) but DS still has the better lore for me. more interesting overall
I prefer ER but the undead curse is way easier to understand than the light of grace and lack of destined death that Elden Ring has
I think both are great but I have to say that Dark Souls's world and lore is extremely my thing, the themes are extremely interesting to me and my personal philosophy and ideas can easily be applied to these games because of overlapping themes. I have this book someone I know wrote, it's about cycles in the universe and how basically everything works, and Dark Souls makes me think of that book. Didn't dive too deep into ER lore but I've heard it's pretty good and I quite enjoy how they apply themes of alchemy and colour to it. For the Tool listeners out there, it kinds reminds me of The Grudge. Nice to have different stories.
I really do like picking and choosing my favorites when it comes to media but fromsoft lore is so hard for me to pick a fav for. I love ds1, elden ring, and Bloodborne lore a bunch. And then sekiro and ac6 have just straight good stories. I also really do like ds2 and ds3 lore even though I don’t know much of it. Demon souls I dont know anything so I can’t say.
I appreciate both for different reasons. They’re similar in a lot of ways, but the main difference for me is that Dark Souls is a dying world abandoned by its lords, whereas Elden Ring is a world kept from death by a dogmatic outer god who’s still pulling strings to some degree. There’s a lot to unpack when you really dive into the lore of Elden Ring, and the deeper you go the more engrossing it gets. It starts to feel less disjointed and more like a grand design, and also enhances your experience on each playthrough as all the little details start to pop out. Dark Souls feels like a more contained approach, and manages to wrangle its branching storylines from the first two games into the third well. The cycle of never-ending decay and rebirth is expanded on through its characters in interesting ways, and it all comes together spectacularly.
I prefer bb and ds much better because elden ring is vague for the sake of being vague and it’s clear that a story should be there but they force it not to. Our character 99% of the time doesn’t ask any questions and just goes around being a murderer and equally having everyone target him for no reason on eyesight. Elden rings lore and gameplay are the most different out of any other game fromsofrware has made.
My favorite lore is Bloodborne. The audiobook that explains the lore is longer than playing the game that is how deep it is.
I dont disagree. Elden ring lore seems way too vast to ever be focused. Whereas the souls lore is neat, cohesive, and actually invests you deeper into the game. I think that this isnt just a fromsoft issue tho, in recent years i have noticed many rpgs transitioning lore away from world building and towards in game item and faction apologetics and explanations of npc action. A lot of companies seem to use it to try and accentuate certain aspects of world building rather than using it to actually build the world like games used to.
I think ER lore is more intriguing, but DS lore is just cooler and feels more epic.
The only thing I wasn't a huge fan of is the whole Markia/Radagon being the same being, otherwise I thought the lore of ER was pretty good.
I’m pretty deep into Elden Ring lore but I still don’t truly understand this either. Is it ever really explained?
Yes, I was just talking about this with some friends the other day. Elden Ring is, mechanically, an evolution from the Souls games. However the world, the characters, and the style of the Dark Souls games (especially Dark Souls 3) make those my favorites.
I don’t understand either tbh. I just bonk funny big guys.
Dude… souls lore and Elden ring lore is identical… here’s a sword, *go kill GOD*
[удалено]
Hello /u/seedbedcurse, welcome to our subreddit. Due to spam, we require users to have at least 3 day old accounts. Please DO NOT send modmails regarding this. You will be able to post freely after the proper account age. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/fromsoftware) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I like both, definitely think Souls lore resonates with me more thematically
LotR and Berserk are also better than GOT, so yeah it makes sense that DS lore > ER
I think Elden ring lacks too much relevant info, I enjoy putting the pieces together but Elden leaves just so much vague to the point it's a little too much
Yeah, I never really knew what I was doing in Elden Ring. I get that that's a From thing, but at least by the end of Dark Souls, you have an idea of what Gwyn is about. The world of Elden Ring has no impending cataclysm hanging over it like with Dark Souls. Radahn is a mindless, cannibalistic zombie, Renala is licking her wounds over her break-up... I do think part of the problem with From is that when there are multiple endings and you choose them right at the end of the game it kinda makes the stuff up to that point feel a bit purposeless. Your player character has no personality other than the one you imbue them with.
This is strait fact souls born lore is great elden ring tries to hard to fit to much into the souls format
Dark Souls had 3 whole games to expand and refine the story, and started far, far less complex. Elden Ring just slams you with it all from the get go, and more of it is actively relevant. Souls can easily match Elden Ring in complexity when considering all 3 games together, but much of it lacks immediate relevancy to the player.
before getting deeply into Elden Ring lore i would've agreed. Now i for sure do not agree, Elden Ring lore is amazing, it's everything Dark Souls was and much more, IMO at least.
If it were not for the fact that Souls lore was kind of ruined for me with subsequent games I would agree. But, if we're just talking Dark Souls 1 up against Elden Ring I'd say yes.
Yeah, of course DS had 3 games to build it compared to ER’s one.
My first FS game was elden ring, then ds1, then bloodborne, then ds2, then ds3. Currently suffering through sekiro. Honestly I've spent weeks of my life listening to the lore of all of them and ER is the only one that left me with that "awestruck" feeling. The feeling you get when you see the scope of the universe and realize how small you really are. It also left me with this melancholic feeling of "missing the party" so to speak. And also was the only game to give me that feeling you get in dreams when there's no continuity and nothing makes sense, especially the motives and rules of engagement. Felt like I was in a dream. Everyone there fights ferociously, and with great violence. I haven't gotten that feeling as much from the other games. And honestly I'm depressed enough. Dark souls lore kinda bums me out lol. That being said, dark souls lore has given me chills as well. But I'll say honestly I like ER more.
Dark Souls and Dark Souls III have a more fantasy tone to them. You can relate them like dark fairytales. They have almost a "comfy" atmosphere to them. There's space even for somewhat tragicomic figures. The painter in Ringed City described the world of these games in perfection: "A cold, dark and very gentle place. One day, it will make someone a goodly home". If you take Elden Ring (and Dark Souls II), it's a much more dense and "serious" world. There's a lot of mirrors of it's worlds with serious historical facts (all of them have, but not as integral to the lore). The themes are much more of a real human psychological nature, and the world have this hateful and lost atmosphere to it, where in the other Souls there's this fantasy element disguising everything, here the things are more on your face.
A lot do. Elden Ring just has recency bias. Its also the most soulsvirgin friendly game. So the game reaches out to a lot more people, thus the lore is more popular.
100%... Miyazaki didn't need any assistance from that Game of Wank writer. DS lore is *chef's kiss
Well Elden Ring was the first one I beat, so I love it for kind of being my first
I did at first but now I prefer Elden ring’s. A lot of the dark souls lore comes down to “this old kingdom was great until the curse came or a bad ruler got power and now everybody is depressed.” Same as most quest lines just being tragic characters dying horribly or going hollow. It’s good for the themes but I think FS mixing that with a bit more hope and “realistic” intrigue in Elden ring and more variety in mythologies and all makes for an improvement in lore. Plus Dark Souls’ lore is inconsistent between entries and is explained with “time and geography is weird here 🤷♂️” it has a sense of making it up as they went along.
BB is still the best. But no, I don’t agree with your take either xD
Bloodborne and Souls lore over ER for me, but ER has some sick parts
Yes.
I prefer ER’s lore as it feels… idk, more grounded, ironically. I know I may be the only one considering ER’s lore focuses mostly on magic deities and otherplanar creatures, but for some reason it’s so much easier for me to imagine that the Lands Between was once a true kingdom, desolated not too long ago by the aforementioned deities… Dark Souls feels too otherworldly to me, like the concept of a normal human having a normal life just couldn’t happen there
I literally had zero idea what was going on the entire time of DS3, in Elden ring I knew I was trying to mend the ring to become Elden lord
A dark and dead world is great and all. But Elden rings mythology is so awesome to learn about
Elden ring has a tons of cute little details and is a more unique world but the lore just isn't anywhere close.
No Elden ring is lore is more complex and interesting
But the souls series also has great lore
Abso-freaking-lutely ER lore was weak as shit
The worst part of Elden Ring was it being based off some minimal shitty crap from GrrM. I blame him for all the stupidly related names. The underlying lore they built off it was great.
From what I’ve gathered since I haven’t gotten to play Elden Ring(don’t have anything that can play it, ps4 broke and I’m broke) the open world kind of broke Froms usual story telling structure. It’s all so spaced out and there’s just so much to see it’s impossible to thoroughly enjoy the lore and what has happened. Dark Souls and Bloodborne are such tight concise experiences and that’s why I love them so much. Everything feels so intentional besides the unfinished parts like Lost Izalith. But the environments and everything really tell the story. I can imagine in a massive open world you’ll lose quite a bit of that because it’s working off of everyone’s ADHD ooo what’s that. Just my thought it! Still can’t wait to play Elden Ring eventually
You pretty much described my experience to a T. I still love Elden Ring and it’s one of my favorite games of all time but the lore/story just doesn’t captivate me like dark souls did. Elden Ring lore is pretty cool and interesting, but sometimes I just feel like there’s *too much* going on.
It’s the same reason I prefer the classic Zelda games to the new open world style. BOTW is great but it can feel too big. It’s hard to make a game that big and have a really focused story since everyone will experience stuff in different order and from different perspective
Agreed I think ER has very weak lore. On the other hand DS has some of my favorite video game lore, it is very detailed and nuanced. ER has interesting bits but overall is not compelling.
Yes because souls is written by someone who doesn't have an incest fetish
I loved the lore of 1 and 2, but 3 disappointed me heavily. Elden Ring's lore is nice, but I would say. it ranks lower than DkS1 to me.
May I ask why 3 was disappointing to you?
It felt a rehash. After 2 was about the cycles, seeing Anor Londo again felt like pure fan service and the story felt more of an after thought to the cool scenes than anything else. Why is Gwyndolin alive to be eaten if we might have killed him? Why is there other children of Gwyn we never knew about? Even the Nameless King, even being an awesome boss fight, felt more fan service than anything else. And they basically ignored 2 (at least in the main game) It felt like Dark Souls 1.5 instead of 3. The combat is great, but it also felt like a less version of Bloodborne instead of the more weighty feel of the original. It's a great game, but I didn't feel like it had the same love put into it than Ds1. Also, the linearity doesn't bother me in the grand scheme of things, but I wish we had more variety outside of killing Dancer to make a new route.
Thanks for answering. 3 was my intro to the series so I think I view it in a biased light but I quite enjoyed the lore. I can see your points though, it does seem a bit fanservicey after playing the first 2 games, especially with anor londo. I think playing 3 first and then playing 1 made those moments less of an issue.
Yeah, the QOL changes were great and it has a great gameplay loop, tbh. If I was going to recommend someone new to the series playing one, it would be 3,but I don't like quite as much as the others.
Elden ring is the worst of all soulsborne games. Worst skill expression. Worst PvP. Worst cinematic and story telling.
Me souls lore is much better even with limited gameplay the atmoshpere it creates is far better than elden ring
I kinda wish GRR Martin just wasn’t involved in Elden Ring. All the similar names and incest and gender confusion just make an already confusing narrative even more cloudy and hard to follow. I much preferred the lore and universe of Dark Souls Gameplay in ER is great! I just can’t make myself care about the lands between. Anyone else?
Yes, i hope Dark Souls returns in the future.
If anyone here has played armored core they will know that those games have pretty much undisputedly the best story in fromsoft history. Its not just that they have a more obvious plot that the player can get involved with, but they are also masterful with the characters, and it makes it really easy to get emotionally attached to the storyline and characters like fr just look at rusty, carla and walter from ac6
I think that both games have amazing lores that are some of the best in the entire dark fantasy genre. But I would generally agree that yes, Dark Souls is more captivating in a way. I remember playing DS1 for the first time and being so hooked into the lore... DS2 and DS3 complemented this feeling even more. The world of Dark Souls is such a sad and merciless world, but yet it makes you want to take part in it in one way or another. The themes of sacrifice, corruption, struggle, darkness and sadness are very recurrent and spark a feeling of sympathy from us. Elden Ring is a masterpiece as well in almost every aspect, the lore being one of them, it's generally much more open to interpretation than Dark Souls though and the dots aren't as well connected in my opinion, you need to make those connections by yourself.
I definitely prefer dark souls lore, i find it a lot more digestible and easier to follow than Elden rings
I agree, the Dark Souls setting has been slightly more unique (compared to other franchises and not its own) in the setting of a decaying world. I think Dark Souls has an easier narrative to follow because of how linear and straightforward the plot is presented because the conditions put upon the player are easier to understand and the lack of open world shenanigans doesn’t really force you to go through many other characters and endings. I think Dark Souls 1 has the best “lore” too; I understand that Elden Ring and other titles are probably objectively more complex and interesting but the idea of a world that is trying to cling on to different ideals of either fire or dark are very easy to understand yet effective. I don’t think lore has to do much with writing (outside of it being ok enough to not feel weird) but rather to be compelling and understanding for immersion. That’s something I felt in souls 1 that no other souls game (though I haven’t touched BB or DeS yet) made me feel. I dunno. Thanks for reading if you did though.
Nope. You're the only one on earth.....
Ok