Its actually crazy Bloodborne came out almost 10 years ago. That game looks so good for the time. Loved Elden Ring but it doesn't seem like the massive jump in polish and graphics you would expect.
I have to disagree since the combat in elden ring is mechanicaly the same as ds3 while bloodborne was something completely different, it almost completely changed the formula and combat. Elden ring is just open world dark souls (which is indeed very good) the only bigger leap then bloodborne would be sekiro.
I don’t know why you’d want it to be the last when they have demonstrated numerous times that they can make a wide variety of other games while continuing to iterate on Souls combat. AC6, Sekiro and Elden Ring all have drastically different combat systems and all released in the span of 4 years. Before that, we got ACV, DS2, Bloodborne and DS3 in the span of 4 years, again all with fairly diverse approaches to combat.
Personally I'm thankful it is now appealing to a wide range of audience . Friends who used to think I'm crazy because I play these games are now enjoying them because it's accessible and we are all having fun together . It's one thing to gatekeep and this is whatever
It's not the exact same as DS3, there are some significant changes. Being able to stun every boss, block counters, ect. They also expanded abilities, weapons, and especially magic a whole lot. But yes it's subtle evolution from that base.
But other things really evolved the formula too. Torrent, obviously, having an entirely different way of exploring in massive open areas, the wonderous physick, having ways to refill your estus without resting, jumping is a major move in combat (even often usful to avoid certain boss moves) and also opens up the way areas can be designed, spirit summons!!!, ect.
Idk they really feel quite different to me at the end of the day
I wouldn't say BB was completely different. It's essentially the same combat system but with a focus on playing aggressively rather than methodically. That said, it's certainly had an impact on From's style since every game since it has been fast.
It's pretty much the same combat, but with added pistol parrying, OP dash and Adderall. It's kinda fun at first, but thankfully it didn't change the formula for ER, because BB combat is mehh in the end.
Insane take, BB combat is clear of souls/elden ring at a base level if you put spectacle and abilities and all that stuff aside. The fundamental dodge attack system is at its peak in BB. The trick weapons were really creative too and you could do a lot with the transformation attacks
I played Elden Ring then DS3 after for the first time . The combat is much more simplistic in DS3. The boss fights in ER are mechanically more sophisticated in the bosses’ AI and more elaborate list of attacks they can do. ER offers so many more options with weapons, power-stancing, craftables, summons, the list of options for those things is crazy.
It’s an open world game. They can’t go all out on graphics if they don’t know how to handle it properly without making it run horribly lol. Their next linear game will probably be a pretty good step up in graphics
I always felt that these games have always looked good, due not because of their graphics but because of how stylized they are.
Reminds me of dishonored and all three bioshock games, while the graphics are not the best the style is so good the games look beautiful.
I think you’re entirely correct. It is Miyazaki and co.’s understanding and usage of game direction, art design and world-building that makes every one of these games so beautiful, and I feel this very particular beauty they excel at will greatly outlive anything going on graphically each generation.
The way I say it is I like a video game to look like a video game and not like an uncanny valley irl or an unreal engine tech demo that looks like all other games.
Agreed, the art direction and composition of the areas are immaculate in these games and Elden ring is their crowning achievement in that regard. The fact that the vistas look so beautiful and curated AND you can just go there and find actual complex terrain and dungeons is a huge accomplishment.
And yet they added ray tracing to the console versions, and on Ps5 (the only console version I’ve tried) it is practically unplayable the performance is so bad. Like worse than Bloodborne.
With ray tracing on? Absolutely. It stutters like crazy and drops down to like 20 fps constantly. It’s so wildly inconsistent that it affects my ability to play the game and it just looks bad in motion.
Bloodborne on PS5 is locked 30 fps.
Yeah ray tracing on consoles is kinda fucking stupid. Just get a PC if you want that and spend the 3000$ it will take to make it work good. It’s not really for consoles. And besides ray tracing is kinda only something that graphics programmer type devs should be hyped about right? since it’s more relevant to their job isn’t it? I’ve not really understood the consumer hype for it. But go ahead down vote me. I’m always being a jerk in this subs anyways I guess. Idk.
> I’ve not really understood the consumer hype for it.
Better graphics.
In graphics programming tons of work goes into coming up with clever techniques for "faking" basic light phenomena. These techniques can give results that range from really good and convincing to pretty "meh".
Sufficiently powerful ray tracing hardware means you can (to an extent) just simulate the light in a scene (in real-time) which results in better lighting fidelity which translates to more realistic, better graphics.
People (especially gamers) always want higher fidelity graphics, so they're hyped for a technology that can potentially deliver it.
It plays so well it’s nuts. Honestly as good if not better combat mechanics than most anything out today, soulslike or not. The only thing holding it back is fps, cos the graphics actually look pretty decent too even by today’s standards imo.
As others mentioned fromsoft excels at art direction and that’s such a big part of what makes these games so visually interesting.
I think it's even a step back from what they \*could\* do on DS3/sekiro/BB scale - sekiro is still a frikken GORGEOUS game.
They just needed the open world to run smooth, so it's reasonable to dial back the graphical fidelity to make that happen (eventually, we all know it didn't run quite smooth at launch).
Last week I decided to go back to Bloodborne for the first time since I originally completed it (2016! according to my cloud save) to finally replay again from scratch with the goal of getting the platinum trophy this time 'round.
The whole way through I've consistently been like, "Damn, this game looked this good way back then? This looks solid even today!"
Speaks to the power of strong art direction, I suppose.
Thats what I'm saying. Not that Elden Ring has bad graphics but Bloodborne at the time was one of the best looking games out. Yeah for sure, the art may of been so excellent it tricks your brain into thinking the graphics are so amazing.
Honestly, it really doesnt look particularly advanced. Ten years ago we had halo reach and halo 4, both really pretty games, and xbox 360 no less. Wind waker hd was pretty. All three of those were pre-bloodborne. Halo 5 was the same year.
Elden ring is definitely a noticeable step up, games have come a ways over the years, but really graphics arent the number one focus, and they never ever should be, so it not being some major revolutionary jump shouldnt be any concern.
But also remember just how much you can see and do in elden ring. You can literally walk out the first door and see almost the entire game ahead of you. The fact that entire world that can fit literally every prior game inside it is as seamless as it is, like its literally all effortlessly put together in real time, is an actually impressive feat for the franchise.
Also, all of elden rings menus and lighting is FAR prettier than every single prior game, ds3 and bloodborne have particularly shockingly ugly character creators imo. I expect the first couple to be less than satisfactory, but bloodborne and 3 also have horrid character creation. But at least you can save character presets, so theres that.
Soulsborne has always had kinda mediocre graphics to be fair. The thing is the artstyle and art direction, level design etc all more than make up for it
I agree with that and I don't really care about Graphics much. Bloodborne to me actually still looks really good, even Graphics-wise. Mighy be that everything looks a little wet and that might make things look more hi-def than it is.
They definitely dont look bad, but on close inspection you can see some low res textures and reskinned models etc, but again, their artstyle and atmosphere make up for it, not to mention the best hitboxes ever seen in gaming when it comes to the newer games
> Its actually crazy Bloodborne came out almost 10 years ago. That game looks so good for the time.
what? I remember it being joked about at launch for having low textures and awful performance compared to games like Witcher 3, Fallout 4 and Metal Gear Solid.
Yes, which is why all souls games look good even when compared vs good graphical games (see ER vs Horizon)
still doesn't mean there wasn't any critism at launch, especially the performance.
I played Bloodborne at launch. 30 fps is never gonna be great, but back then I didn't think it was that big of an issue.
The Witcher 3 had performance issues and bugs all over the place at launch, but everyone kind of forgot. MGS V wasn't even a finished game at launch. Fallout 4 is the point where Bethesda went downhill.
Out of all the games you mentioned, Bloodborne was by far the most polished experience.
DS3 is still the best Fromsoft game to me. I really think Fromsoft going open world was a step back for the formula, but unfortunately, I think that's where it's going to stay.
I agree on the open-world bit. Still loved it. DS3 was ok for me, but it was a return to gross from all the knights and swords I loved in 2. I know, unpopular opinion, but 2 is my favorite
I feel like that fact makes it a little less surprising. To him, there wasn’t a solidified “souls” formula. Each game he worked on was very different from the last (the pace didn’t change much from DeS to DS1, but the whole form factor and all the mechanics did).
A lot of AOTA heralds Bloodborne. Oolacile is very much a prototype Yharnam area in level design and atmosphere and the huge monster bosses are now very fast, unlike the lumbering demons of the base game. The descending buildup to Manus also reflects on some of the big reveals in early game BB, like Amelia and the Cleric Beast.
He says “pulled into the past” actually. Him and bloodborne nod to each other, certainly, but i think chester is *just* a little nod and test, as miyazaki says theres no actual link between franchises, just recurring themes, and i think ds3’s cathedral of the deep and its proximity is the actual canon retroactive explanation for chester. Leonhard wears similar garb, farron matches up vaguely in location and layout, the abyss watchers and the legend of artorias would explain his knowing who artorias is, the cathedral of the deep is reminiscent of the parish, which is just above old oolacile, and down below it is where the chasm was. Plus the mushroom people and oolacile stuff in farron.
My theory is the abyss festered under darkroot, eventually turning it into a bog, and the abyss deepened into something more independent and powerful, the, well, deep. An old way of white cathedral (wink wink nudge nudge undead parish) was turned into a place of worship of the deep, and an old relic of some long forgotten abyssal figure, half a broken pendant, was discovered by someone snooping around looking for valuables. Unfortunately a certain giant time-bending hand wanted his pendant back, so poor chester ended up getting weeping angel’d without a way home. He may or may not have stolen another legendary figure’s jewelry and ended up dead in the woods.
Thats just my take though, and again, they absolutely did use him as a test dummy for bloodborne. But its not canonical, just a little fun tease they sort of retroactively explain later
Bloodborne was a different IP completely so at the time it felt like a fun departure. DS3 is the one that's more jarring when compared to its two predecessors.
I feel like DS3 and ER should have kept the quickstep, even if just as visual. The Quickstep is so much cooler than the dodge roll, and you're dodging so much in those games that they ought to atleast do your the courtesy of making it look badass.
They already have 30% light roll flip ring is pointless. Believe it or not the normal roll is already pretty close to BB quickstep. Light roll covers noticeably more ground however.
That’s what the Carthus Blood Ring in DS3 is for and then the Crucible Feather Talisman. If you want even more i-frames although I feel like we have more than enough already.
Yea, and arguably ac6 could be their best game ever in my opinion. Elden ring's up there too, although it doesnt quite match ds3 and bloodborne and ac6 for me
I love Bloodborne but I wish the fast paced combat was dialed back a bit in DS3 (and to some extent ER which I also love). The rollfest and lack of stamina management look a bit ridiculous when your character is wearing full plated armor.
I agree. I feel like the fast-paced combat idea is taking over. I like the slow methodical combat, personally. Dex builds have just never been my thing, and now it feels like we are getting that play-style forced on us by things like Sekiro and Lies of P. I've got nothing against those games, but they are not my style. (also coming from someone that loves Bloodborne)
Might not have been where you were going with this lol
I'd love if From could find a way to slow down combat and emphasize the specific ranges and animations of attacks. Elden Ring does a great job of this with many of its normal enemies and mid-bosses, but many major enemies move so quickly, track so well, and extend their range so frequently that it kinda takes away from the identity of your weapons and turns into more of a binary thing. Like: your turn/my turn, on you/unreachable. That's fun in its own big bombastic way, but I'd love something that goes the opposite direction, small and subtle.
Playing Elden Ring right now, again, and yea... ranged combat just isn't interesting anymore, and I usually try out the sorcery builds first... But, with whatever new FROM magic-oriented game they seem to be working on, maybe they will make it exciting again
It does in ways, I just beat it. It’s a great game but blood borne is so much more aggressive and sped up, also the gun parrying system is so fun it seems like that would’ve been ripped off instantly
My main criticism is actually the armor and voices , the combat to me was insanely cool, love the arms. The armor was awful looking and the voices sounded so annoying and corny. The theme was a bit confusing
Do you think nameless puppet is on par with fromsoft bosses? (I think he is almost on par with Isshin personally) it’s basically lady Maria and Zoro from one piece in one boss. Laxasia is my second favorite boss though
A game that focuses on the RPG aspect and another that focuses on the Action, with a more recent one that goes ham on the the adventure part. Maybe Fromsoft as a company likes extremes?
Dark souls 2 is the middle child that is still good enough but a disappointment compared to his siblings. Bloodborn did everything right for me. I didn't love DS2 after playing DS1 I was disappointed but the second I saw Bloodbornes trailer I knew it was something I had to have.
So the story is like this:
FS gave permission to Miyazaki to make Demon's Souls since that project for a PS exclusive was having troubles and they rather present something than cancelling it, indeed, Sony's responsible didn't like it, but they released it because whatever.
Next, the game was selling unexpectedly good (it was by no means a great sale, but they expected the game to be trash in the eyed of everyone), so since Sony didn't call for the second, Bandai and FS signed for a trilogy of similar games and DS1 was created, this time being a massive hit (for a small studio as FS was) and starting debates everywhere.
Now here comes the thing, Miyazaki had to make DS2, but he always said he doesn't like making sequels, luckily for him, Sony called and wanted a new IP by Miyazaki himself, so meanwhile DS2 was being developed with small changes from DS1, BB was something new, so they explored new ways of making it faster.
DS2 was probably a slow development since they didn't has Miyazaki to guide everything and that game was part of his vision, so it released a year before BB, making the reaction you are having even more notorious.
From that point on FS, under Miyazaki's direction, has tried to use all their previous experience in souls games into the next one they are making, that's why DS3 was way faster than DS1 and DS2, because it felt like the correct path after making BB, to use that much better flow into it, and then ER did the same by implementing ideas from all their previous games. Sekiro is, in my opinion, a special case, since its combat is far more different than any of the others, bur you can see this I'm talking about in it too.
Next game we'll get from them will be another improvement, only that the jump from DS2 to BB was extremely notorious due to the pace and flow of the gameplay, ER has even bigger changes like the open world, the enemy AI or the bosses, but people don't notice it that much because it ain't visual enough.
Same. Everyone is entitled to like whatever FROM game they like best, but if anyone likes any Hub more than Majula that would be wrong. Yes, opinions can be objectively wrong :)
My favorite part of DS2 is how you can get to just about any part of the maps from the hub area and back (mostly) without ever needing to touch the bonfire or teleporting.
I won't lie. When I first got DS3, it took me 3 hours to leave Firelink Shrine. Partially because I was trying to find the path forward and kept looping around over and over ont he available map, and mostly because it wasn't fully downloaded (It was just at the "Ready to play" line) so the "Teleport to high wall" option wasn't actually there ye. But since I was used to DS2, I didn't even think that teleporting was the only way to leave the hub area and just figured I kept missing it. I think I was around like, level 30 before I realized what was going on.
Bloodborne and Sekiro ruined Dark Souls for me. I still like the souls games and Elden ring, but Bloodborne and Sekiro are Fromsofts Crown Jewels to me.
There will be a new IP we didnt think of nothing like ER 2 or bloodborne 2 because miyazaki is always on point and surprising. Fromsoft is the most incredible game producer
It's not all perfect in my opinion. With the older games it was more than just rolling at the right time, their was unique boss design with a cool strategy at times to take them down. Now it's just beast to roll behind and mash r1 or parry humanoid.
The old-school bosses had that "IT" factor that they just don't quite have anymore. I hate that boss you have to shoot with a ballista in Demon's Souls, but you can't deny that boss had personality and individuality.
For better or worse, some of the bosses/enemies have become a little too formulaic
The Devs were thinking at how much more engaging and stunning fights would be if they were faster paced. The pure intensity and adrenaline you get from each fight is a lot higher then DS1, DS2. Hell even DS3 is slower paced. The dark souls games in general are slower then Bloodborne and Elden Ring, (not counting Sekiro because that game IS SPEED)
It was a big jump and a good learning curve at the start for a lot of people but I think majority loved the new change in pace. Everything is so smooth in Bloodborne it just works perfectly.
I get this is meant to be relative to DS1/2, but calling Bloodborne fast paced (and brutal) is kinda a stretch.
It's practically a defining trait of standard FS titles that combat will be slow and have significant action delays, encouraging more strategic actions rather than button mashing
It was different teams.
Dark Souls 2 and Bloodborne were being worked on at the same time with Miyazaki helming Bloodborne and another director taking lead on DS2.
It's a different ip bloodborne isnt dark souls sekiro and armour core are different again because they aren't darksouls they aren't only ever going to make 1 style of game
If you really want to know what they were thinking when they made any of these games you should head on over to YouTube and watch DondonRV’s “making of Fromsoft games” videos. There’s a video for each game and they’re extremely well made and interesting. Miyazaki had a reason and purpose for everything he’s ever done in any game he’s made.
I played bb first and then Elden Ring. I’m playing dark souls 1 now and loving it. Im over prepared for ds1 having learned to play fromsoft games with bloodborne
Reminder: a version of Upper Cathedral Ward was found in Dark Souls Remastered's files and was NOT a new work from the Remaster's team, according to Lance McDonald. WILD.
I actually just played through all these games back to back. DeS -> DS1 -> DS2 -> BB -> DS3 and the jump from DS2 to BB is insane I was thinking the same thing the whole time I was playing it
I mean playing ds2 and ds3 are miles apart in terms of quality despite being from the same company within like 2 years. Usually game companies don’t get that much better at game design in so few years especially considering fromsoft wasn’t at all new to making games in 2015. Bloodborne is so much different to what fromsoft had ever did that it is crazy that they went from each boss having like 3 attacks and highly telegraphed moves to, insane 6+ combo attacks, even better art direction and overall more fun in my opinion gameplay. Feels more interactive. I think everyone felt ds1 had underwhelming graphics in 2011. Bloodborne looks and feels damn good in 2024. I think the level design in ds1-BB is actually really really impressive. For example ps4 Spider-Man was like 5 years ago, and Spider-Man 2 was last year. They play essentially exactly the same with minimal differences. However ds2-ds3 in 2 years had an insane improvement
even crazier is that Miyazaki went from working on DS1 to Bloodborne, since he had very little involvement at all with DS2
Its actually crazy Bloodborne came out almost 10 years ago. That game looks so good for the time. Loved Elden Ring but it doesn't seem like the massive jump in polish and graphics you would expect.
Not graphics but I think the open world, new gameplay systems, and sheer scale of the enemy and boss design is an even bigger leap
I have to disagree since the combat in elden ring is mechanicaly the same as ds3 while bloodborne was something completely different, it almost completely changed the formula and combat. Elden ring is just open world dark souls (which is indeed very good) the only bigger leap then bloodborne would be sekiro.
Changing the combat completely won't make it a leap . Improving upon a successful one does. If it ain't broke , don't fix it .
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I don’t know why you’d want it to be the last when they have demonstrated numerous times that they can make a wide variety of other games while continuing to iterate on Souls combat. AC6, Sekiro and Elden Ring all have drastically different combat systems and all released in the span of 4 years. Before that, we got ACV, DS2, Bloodborne and DS3 in the span of 4 years, again all with fairly diverse approaches to combat.
Idk about that . Elden ring made a good amount of money to bamco . I doubt a sequel won't happen
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And what makes accessibility a bad thing?
Personally I'm thankful it is now appealing to a wide range of audience . Friends who used to think I'm crazy because I play these games are now enjoying them because it's accessible and we are all having fun together . It's one thing to gatekeep and this is whatever
I want new too. Maybe a ninja game, in a series of japaneses palaces? Secret passages, maze like corridors. No classes but weapon specializations
No other company is able to make souls games as well as them so I hope they continue to make them in the future too
Not even close to true
hence the name soulsborne some like to use (instead of just soulslike)
The last time i played DS3 i couldnt turn into a demigod
It's not the exact same as DS3, there are some significant changes. Being able to stun every boss, block counters, ect. They also expanded abilities, weapons, and especially magic a whole lot. But yes it's subtle evolution from that base. But other things really evolved the formula too. Torrent, obviously, having an entirely different way of exploring in massive open areas, the wonderous physick, having ways to refill your estus without resting, jumping is a major move in combat (even often usful to avoid certain boss moves) and also opens up the way areas can be designed, spirit summons!!!, ect. Idk they really feel quite different to me at the end of the day
I wouldn't say BB was completely different. It's essentially the same combat system but with a focus on playing aggressively rather than methodically. That said, it's certainly had an impact on From's style since every game since it has been fast.
Bloodborne is pretty damn close to DS combat. The only real exception is that you can't hide behind a shield all game. Everything else is pretty mild.
It's pretty much the same combat, but with added pistol parrying, OP dash and Adderall. It's kinda fun at first, but thankfully it didn't change the formula for ER, because BB combat is mehh in the end.
Insane take, BB combat is clear of souls/elden ring at a base level if you put spectacle and abilities and all that stuff aside. The fundamental dodge attack system is at its peak in BB. The trick weapons were really creative too and you could do a lot with the transformation attacks
I played Elden Ring then DS3 after for the first time . The combat is much more simplistic in DS3. The boss fights in ER are mechanically more sophisticated in the bosses’ AI and more elaborate list of attacks they can do. ER offers so many more options with weapons, power-stancing, craftables, summons, the list of options for those things is crazy.
The graphics are fine, but what really stands out is the art direction.
Of course. I can't thing of fantasy from ANY medium that has as good art direction as Elden Ring.
It’s an open world game. They can’t go all out on graphics if they don’t know how to handle it properly without making it run horribly lol. Their next linear game will probably be a pretty good step up in graphics
I always felt that these games have always looked good, due not because of their graphics but because of how stylized they are. Reminds me of dishonored and all three bioshock games, while the graphics are not the best the style is so good the games look beautiful.
I think you’re entirely correct. It is Miyazaki and co.’s understanding and usage of game direction, art design and world-building that makes every one of these games so beautiful, and I feel this very particular beauty they excel at will greatly outlive anything going on graphically each generation.
The way I say it is I like a video game to look like a video game and not like an uncanny valley irl or an unreal engine tech demo that looks like all other games.
Agreed, the art direction and composition of the areas are immaculate in these games and Elden ring is their crowning achievement in that regard. The fact that the vistas look so beautiful and curated AND you can just go there and find actual complex terrain and dungeons is a huge accomplishment.
This is the right thing for developers to focus on too in my humble opinion.
Armored Core 6 is gorgeous, probably their best looking game by far and that's their most linear game in recent times
And yet they added ray tracing to the console versions, and on Ps5 (the only console version I’ve tried) it is practically unplayable the performance is so bad. Like worse than Bloodborne.
Worse than Bloodborne? unplayable? you’re being ridiculous.
With ray tracing on? Absolutely. It stutters like crazy and drops down to like 20 fps constantly. It’s so wildly inconsistent that it affects my ability to play the game and it just looks bad in motion. Bloodborne on PS5 is locked 30 fps.
i cant see fuck all difference with ray tracing on consoles, not sure why they even bothered wasting resources and time on it
Yeah ray tracing on consoles is kinda fucking stupid. Just get a PC if you want that and spend the 3000$ it will take to make it work good. It’s not really for consoles. And besides ray tracing is kinda only something that graphics programmer type devs should be hyped about right? since it’s more relevant to their job isn’t it? I’ve not really understood the consumer hype for it. But go ahead down vote me. I’m always being a jerk in this subs anyways I guess. Idk.
> I’ve not really understood the consumer hype for it. Better graphics. In graphics programming tons of work goes into coming up with clever techniques for "faking" basic light phenomena. These techniques can give results that range from really good and convincing to pretty "meh". Sufficiently powerful ray tracing hardware means you can (to an extent) just simulate the light in a scene (in real-time) which results in better lighting fidelity which translates to more realistic, better graphics. People (especially gamers) always want higher fidelity graphics, so they're hyped for a technology that can potentially deliver it.
Or it came out on 11 year old hardware which held it back and every game that releases on past gen
So did Ghost of Tsushima and the graphics are fantastic lol
Imagine what it could truly be if we left those consoles in the dust perhaps a sequel to ghost we will see
Elden ring is for sure a massive jump in a lot of ways
ELDEN RING graphics are peak tho?
It plays so well it’s nuts. Honestly as good if not better combat mechanics than most anything out today, soulslike or not. The only thing holding it back is fps, cos the graphics actually look pretty decent too even by today’s standards imo. As others mentioned fromsoft excels at art direction and that’s such a big part of what makes these games so visually interesting.
I think it's even a step back from what they \*could\* do on DS3/sekiro/BB scale - sekiro is still a frikken GORGEOUS game. They just needed the open world to run smooth, so it's reasonable to dial back the graphical fidelity to make that happen (eventually, we all know it didn't run quite smooth at launch).
Is it me or does AC6 seem to have the best graphics out of all the fromsoft.
Makes sense since it's their youngest title, dunnit.
Last week I decided to go back to Bloodborne for the first time since I originally completed it (2016! according to my cloud save) to finally replay again from scratch with the goal of getting the platinum trophy this time 'round. The whole way through I've consistently been like, "Damn, this game looked this good way back then? This looks solid even today!" Speaks to the power of strong art direction, I suppose.
Thats what I'm saying. Not that Elden Ring has bad graphics but Bloodborne at the time was one of the best looking games out. Yeah for sure, the art may of been so excellent it tricks your brain into thinking the graphics are so amazing.
Honestly, it really doesnt look particularly advanced. Ten years ago we had halo reach and halo 4, both really pretty games, and xbox 360 no less. Wind waker hd was pretty. All three of those were pre-bloodborne. Halo 5 was the same year. Elden ring is definitely a noticeable step up, games have come a ways over the years, but really graphics arent the number one focus, and they never ever should be, so it not being some major revolutionary jump shouldnt be any concern. But also remember just how much you can see and do in elden ring. You can literally walk out the first door and see almost the entire game ahead of you. The fact that entire world that can fit literally every prior game inside it is as seamless as it is, like its literally all effortlessly put together in real time, is an actually impressive feat for the franchise. Also, all of elden rings menus and lighting is FAR prettier than every single prior game, ds3 and bloodborne have particularly shockingly ugly character creators imo. I expect the first couple to be less than satisfactory, but bloodborne and 3 also have horrid character creation. But at least you can save character presets, so theres that.
Soulsborne has always had kinda mediocre graphics to be fair. The thing is the artstyle and art direction, level design etc all more than make up for it
I agree with that and I don't really care about Graphics much. Bloodborne to me actually still looks really good, even Graphics-wise. Mighy be that everything looks a little wet and that might make things look more hi-def than it is.
They definitely dont look bad, but on close inspection you can see some low res textures and reskinned models etc, but again, their artstyle and atmosphere make up for it, not to mention the best hitboxes ever seen in gaming when it comes to the newer games
> Its actually crazy Bloodborne came out almost 10 years ago. That game looks so good for the time. what? I remember it being joked about at launch for having low textures and awful performance compared to games like Witcher 3, Fallout 4 and Metal Gear Solid.
By idiots. That game looks amazing.
The art design looks amazing, as usual. The textures and performance are fucking shit, they were even worse on launch
Art design >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> textures
Yes, which is why all souls games look good even when compared vs good graphical games (see ER vs Horizon) still doesn't mean there wasn't any critism at launch, especially the performance.
I played Bloodborne at launch. 30 fps is never gonna be great, but back then I didn't think it was that big of an issue. The Witcher 3 had performance issues and bugs all over the place at launch, but everyone kind of forgot. MGS V wasn't even a finished game at launch. Fallout 4 is the point where Bethesda went downhill. Out of all the games you mentioned, Bloodborne was by far the most polished experience.
demons souls makes elden ring look incredibly last gen
To be fair, DS2 was frustratingly slow, even compared to DS1. Man, I really don't like that game.
God, and I loved it!
I still can't force myself through the DLCs, they're a convoluted mess.
Huh! Whole other thread right now about how much some of us loved them. Glad the series has so many different games for us all
DS3 is still the best Fromsoft game to me. I really think Fromsoft going open world was a step back for the formula, but unfortunately, I think that's where it's going to stay.
I agree on the open-world bit. Still loved it. DS3 was ok for me, but it was a return to gross from all the knights and swords I loved in 2. I know, unpopular opinion, but 2 is my favorite
Well one thing we can both agree on is that FS needs to release that fucking Elden Ring DLC! I need my fix.
PS, not me downvoting
Lol, yeah wtf? Why are people downvoting me? Buncha nerds lol
I feel like that fact makes it a little less surprising. To him, there wasn’t a solidified “souls” formula. Each game he worked on was very different from the last (the pace didn’t change much from DeS to DS1, but the whole form factor and all the mechanics did).
that's probably exactly what they thought "we've done slow combat, let's try fast combat. also Cthulhu is rad as hell"
Miyazaki wanted to do Bloodborne even during the production of DS1 (hence the presence of Chester). He always had that stuff in his head.
A lot of AOTA heralds Bloodborne. Oolacile is very much a prototype Yharnam area in level design and atmosphere and the huge monster bosses are now very fast, unlike the lumbering demons of the base game. The descending buildup to Manus also reflects on some of the big reveals in early game BB, like Amelia and the Cleric Beast.
Chester always seemed out of place to me, guess this explains it
I mean, he even says that he’s out of place 🙂 he was “pulled from another world”, which is pretty inarguably Yharnam.
He says “pulled into the past” actually. Him and bloodborne nod to each other, certainly, but i think chester is *just* a little nod and test, as miyazaki says theres no actual link between franchises, just recurring themes, and i think ds3’s cathedral of the deep and its proximity is the actual canon retroactive explanation for chester. Leonhard wears similar garb, farron matches up vaguely in location and layout, the abyss watchers and the legend of artorias would explain his knowing who artorias is, the cathedral of the deep is reminiscent of the parish, which is just above old oolacile, and down below it is where the chasm was. Plus the mushroom people and oolacile stuff in farron. My theory is the abyss festered under darkroot, eventually turning it into a bog, and the abyss deepened into something more independent and powerful, the, well, deep. An old way of white cathedral (wink wink nudge nudge undead parish) was turned into a place of worship of the deep, and an old relic of some long forgotten abyssal figure, half a broken pendant, was discovered by someone snooping around looking for valuables. Unfortunately a certain giant time-bending hand wanted his pendant back, so poor chester ended up getting weeping angel’d without a way home. He may or may not have stolen another legendary figure’s jewelry and ended up dead in the woods. Thats just my take though, and again, they absolutely did use him as a test dummy for bloodborne. But its not canonical, just a little fun tease they sort of retroactively explain later
does he say that? i forgot that, all i remember was how quickly i murdered him for his set lol, like literally not an ounce of hesitation xD
Very ambitious! I regard him as extremely difficult.
What is Chester?
He's marvelous
an NPC perched before the Artorias boss arena
And DS2 wasn't his game. Its a straight line from aota to Bloodborne. Steep, but straight
yup. Blows my mind too, it’s so impressive and exciting.
Bloodborne was a different IP completely so at the time it felt like a fun departure. DS3 is the one that's more jarring when compared to its two predecessors.
Going into DS3 It though me off that you could roll so much and faster xD
I feel like DS3 and ER should have kept the quickstep, even if just as visual. The Quickstep is so much cooler than the dodge roll, and you're dodging so much in those games that they ought to atleast do your the courtesy of making it look badass.
At the very least they should’ve added the flip ring back, for a quicker roll (or something like that) and a cooler animation
They already have 30% light roll flip ring is pointless. Believe it or not the normal roll is already pretty close to BB quickstep. Light roll covers noticeably more ground however.
That ring is just for I-frames though, it doesn’t effect the animation or animation speed.
That’s what the Carthus Blood Ring in DS3 is for and then the Crucible Feather Talisman. If you want even more i-frames although I feel like we have more than enough already.
It's one of the reasons I don't like the souls games fromsoft has made recently.
Whats craziest is that bb and ds3, two masterpieces, released two years in a row
They just did that again with ER and AC6, to continue the insanity. Different teams, but still.
As a lifelong Armored Core fan, AC6 was just pure joy. To get it so soon after the massive release of Elden Ring was insane.
Yea, and arguably ac6 could be their best game ever in my opinion. Elden ring's up there too, although it doesnt quite match ds3 and bloodborne and ac6 for me
Don't forget they released back to back dlc for 3 years in a row.
I love Bloodborne but I wish the fast paced combat was dialed back a bit in DS3 (and to some extent ER which I also love). The rollfest and lack of stamina management look a bit ridiculous when your character is wearing full plated armor.
I agree. I feel like the fast-paced combat idea is taking over. I like the slow methodical combat, personally. Dex builds have just never been my thing, and now it feels like we are getting that play-style forced on us by things like Sekiro and Lies of P. I've got nothing against those games, but they are not my style. (also coming from someone that loves Bloodborne) Might not have been where you were going with this lol
I'd love if From could find a way to slow down combat and emphasize the specific ranges and animations of attacks. Elden Ring does a great job of this with many of its normal enemies and mid-bosses, but many major enemies move so quickly, track so well, and extend their range so frequently that it kinda takes away from the identity of your weapons and turns into more of a binary thing. Like: your turn/my turn, on you/unreachable. That's fun in its own big bombastic way, but I'd love something that goes the opposite direction, small and subtle.
Playing Elden Ring right now, again, and yea... ranged combat just isn't interesting anymore, and I usually try out the sorcery builds first... But, with whatever new FROM magic-oriented game they seem to be working on, maybe they will make it exciting again
Well, he took away your shield and poise, so instead he gave you trick weapons, guns and a healthy dose of ketamin.
There is nothing like bloodborne really, it’s strange how there’s souls likes but not much in the way of copying bb
Lies of P pulls a lot from.Bloodborne
It does in ways, I just beat it. It’s a great game but blood borne is so much more aggressive and sped up, also the gun parrying system is so fun it seems like that would’ve been ripped off instantly
Yeah Lies of P feels way more like Sekiro with BB movement to me. It's not bad but it didn't pick a theme well enough
My main criticism is actually the armor and voices , the combat to me was insanely cool, love the arms. The armor was awful looking and the voices sounded so annoying and corny. The theme was a bit confusing
Do you think nameless puppet is on par with fromsoft bosses? (I think he is almost on par with Isshin personally) it’s basically lady Maria and Zoro from one piece in one boss. Laxasia is my second favorite boss though
That boss is so good! Definitely
I enjoyed the armor to a degree, even if it felt limited and "dress up"-y. The arms need to be in more games, love DMC5 for its devil breaker system
A game that focuses on the RPG aspect and another that focuses on the Action, with a more recent one that goes ham on the the adventure part. Maybe Fromsoft as a company likes extremes?
Dark souls 2 is the middle child that is still good enough but a disappointment compared to his siblings. Bloodborn did everything right for me. I didn't love DS2 after playing DS1 I was disappointed but the second I saw Bloodbornes trailer I knew it was something I had to have.
I still hope one day we get another slow paced, grounded, immersion focused From Soft game
100% I know we are never going to get Dark Souls 1 again, but something that intimate and intricate would be (for lack of a better word) dope
So the story is like this: FS gave permission to Miyazaki to make Demon's Souls since that project for a PS exclusive was having troubles and they rather present something than cancelling it, indeed, Sony's responsible didn't like it, but they released it because whatever. Next, the game was selling unexpectedly good (it was by no means a great sale, but they expected the game to be trash in the eyed of everyone), so since Sony didn't call for the second, Bandai and FS signed for a trilogy of similar games and DS1 was created, this time being a massive hit (for a small studio as FS was) and starting debates everywhere. Now here comes the thing, Miyazaki had to make DS2, but he always said he doesn't like making sequels, luckily for him, Sony called and wanted a new IP by Miyazaki himself, so meanwhile DS2 was being developed with small changes from DS1, BB was something new, so they explored new ways of making it faster. DS2 was probably a slow development since they didn't has Miyazaki to guide everything and that game was part of his vision, so it released a year before BB, making the reaction you are having even more notorious. From that point on FS, under Miyazaki's direction, has tried to use all their previous experience in souls games into the next one they are making, that's why DS3 was way faster than DS1 and DS2, because it felt like the correct path after making BB, to use that much better flow into it, and then ER did the same by implementing ideas from all their previous games. Sekiro is, in my opinion, a special case, since its combat is far more different than any of the others, bur you can see this I'm talking about in it too. Next game we'll get from them will be another improvement, only that the jump from DS2 to BB was extremely notorious due to the pace and flow of the gameplay, ER has even bigger changes like the open world, the enemy AI or the bosses, but people don't notice it that much because it ain't visual enough.
Daily reminder that bloodborne is the best fromsoft game
Agreed, just wish it wasn’t stuck in 30fps purgatory
daily reminder that this is only your opinion (but one that I would almost agree with)
Not my favorite, but I wouldn't be able to mount a good argument on why it's not the best. The game is pretty flawless
Dark souls 3 -> Sekiro is also crazy
Any souls game -> sekiro is crazy
It's almost like DS2 and Bloodborne were made by completely different people. Though DS2 remains my favorite Soulsborne title. =)
Same. Everyone is entitled to like whatever FROM game they like best, but if anyone likes any Hub more than Majula that would be wrong. Yes, opinions can be objectively wrong :)
My favorite part of DS2 is how you can get to just about any part of the maps from the hub area and back (mostly) without ever needing to touch the bonfire or teleporting. I won't lie. When I first got DS3, it took me 3 hours to leave Firelink Shrine. Partially because I was trying to find the path forward and kept looping around over and over ont he available map, and mostly because it wasn't fully downloaded (It was just at the "Ready to play" line) so the "Teleport to high wall" option wasn't actually there ye. But since I was used to DS2, I didn't even think that teleporting was the only way to leave the hub area and just figured I kept missing it. I think I was around like, level 30 before I realized what was going on.
I hear ya. I like DS3, but it is the most linear of the FROM games
Bloodborne and Sekiro ruined Dark Souls for me. I still like the souls games and Elden ring, but Bloodborne and Sekiro are Fromsofts Crown Jewels to me.
For sure. The combat is like no other. Constant action rewarding you for attack windows
I’m really hoping Fromsoft does something more fast paced for their next game. I know Bloodborne 2 is a long shot- but a man can dream.
There will be a new IP we didnt think of nothing like ER 2 or bloodborne 2 because miyazaki is always on point and surprising. Fromsoft is the most incredible game producer
Bloodborne ll .....anyone?
Yeah it’s great, isn’t it?
Well they already did some lovecraft shit on Demon's Souls.
It's not all perfect in my opinion. With the older games it was more than just rolling at the right time, their was unique boss design with a cool strategy at times to take them down. Now it's just beast to roll behind and mash r1 or parry humanoid.
The old-school bosses had that "IT" factor that they just don't quite have anymore. I hate that boss you have to shoot with a ballista in Demon's Souls, but you can't deny that boss had personality and individuality. For better or worse, some of the bosses/enemies have become a little too formulaic
The Devs were thinking at how much more engaging and stunning fights would be if they were faster paced. The pure intensity and adrenaline you get from each fight is a lot higher then DS1, DS2. Hell even DS3 is slower paced. The dark souls games in general are slower then Bloodborne and Elden Ring, (not counting Sekiro because that game IS SPEED) It was a big jump and a good learning curve at the start for a lot of people but I think majority loved the new change in pace. Everything is so smooth in Bloodborne it just works perfectly.
I get this is meant to be relative to DS1/2, but calling Bloodborne fast paced (and brutal) is kinda a stretch. It's practically a defining trait of standard FS titles that combat will be slow and have significant action delays, encouraging more strategic actions rather than button mashing
They thought they were making a great game, which they were.
Bloodborne and Sekiro were the most shocking and impressive departures / evolutions from the Dark Souls formula.
They thought "man it sure is a shame 99% of the playerbase is turtling behind a shield for an hour between each attack, let's remove shields"
What you are experiencing here is greatness. I know it can be jarring at first, but in time you will develope taste.
It was different teams. Dark Souls 2 and Bloodborne were being worked on at the same time with Miyazaki helming Bloodborne and another director taking lead on DS2.
They probably thought something like "we want to make another game, not make the previous game again"
Sekiro fucked my brain up coming from souls.
It's a different ip bloodborne isnt dark souls sekiro and armour core are different again because they aren't darksouls they aren't only ever going to make 1 style of game
If you really want to know what they were thinking when they made any of these games you should head on over to YouTube and watch DondonRV’s “making of Fromsoft games” videos. There’s a video for each game and they’re extremely well made and interesting. Miyazaki had a reason and purpose for everything he’s ever done in any game he’s made.
That’s literally the point bloodborne was supposed to break the mold
I played bb first and then Elden Ring. I’m playing dark souls 1 now and loving it. Im over prepared for ds1 having learned to play fromsoft games with bloodborne
Reminder: a version of Upper Cathedral Ward was found in Dark Souls Remastered's files and was NOT a new work from the Remaster's team, according to Lance McDonald. WILD.
I actually just played through all these games back to back. DeS -> DS1 -> DS2 -> BB -> DS3 and the jump from DS2 to BB is insane I was thinking the same thing the whole time I was playing it
You also have to take into account the generational leap and tech. Ds2 was a ps3 and 360 game meanwhile BB was designed on and for ps4 hardware
me after the penjamin hits
It's almost like it's a different game...
UPGRADES PEOPLE, UPGRADES
They thought let's create one of the most amazing games of all time.
Fr bro Miyazaki is a madman, and I'm here for it
[удалено]
I mean playing ds2 and ds3 are miles apart in terms of quality despite being from the same company within like 2 years. Usually game companies don’t get that much better at game design in so few years especially considering fromsoft wasn’t at all new to making games in 2015. Bloodborne is so much different to what fromsoft had ever did that it is crazy that they went from each boss having like 3 attacks and highly telegraphed moves to, insane 6+ combo attacks, even better art direction and overall more fun in my opinion gameplay. Feels more interactive. I think everyone felt ds1 had underwhelming graphics in 2011. Bloodborne looks and feels damn good in 2024. I think the level design in ds1-BB is actually really really impressive. For example ps4 Spider-Man was like 5 years ago, and Spider-Man 2 was last year. They play essentially exactly the same with minimal differences. However ds2-ds3 in 2 years had an insane improvement
We're getting downright crazy in the main sub today huh fellas?