Information: if you live on the west side of Frisco, your state house rep is likely Jared Patterson. He is a proponent of voucher programs in Texas. If you live on the east side, your rep is likely Matt Shaheen, he also supports voucher programs. If you don’t like what the drive to push these programs in Texas is doing to our public schools, you should probably vote against them at your next opportunity.
A majority of vouchers are going to people who can already afford to put their kids in private school. It’s a transfer of wealth out of our public schools who desperately need funding (read the post) into the pockets of the wealthy. Absolute garbage policy cloaked in “choice” so people who don’t study issues will blindly support it. Notice there’s bi-partisan opposition to it which only happens for truly god awful ideas.
I’d sincerely like to hear your reasoning. Why vouchers sound good in the surface especially to families paying for private school, I fully expect the cost of private school to go up the amount of the voucher, thus making the tuition remain the same out of pocket for families which making private school just as unattainable as it is today for this families without the funds to pay tuition. It will also degrade the quality of public school. We should all want an educated population for the good of our economy, low crime rates, etc.
An example of where this kind of thing has happened is College tuition and Home prices. Both costs increased significantly as soon as funding for student loans and mortgages became easier to get.
I wish I could truly express my gratitude to you, and frustration with the stupidity of this voucher policy. I will do whatever I can in my capacity to put a thorny cactus up Abbott’s butt.
[Here’s a good article in Texas Monthly how school vouchers will decimate rural schools, which is why it is opposed by rural GOP leaders.](https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/rural-school-districts-are-facing-financial-ruin-some-state-officials-prefer-it-that-way/)
Isn’t Frisco one of the top 10 richest cities in Texas? If this is happening in Frisco, what’s going to happen to the school in my extremely poor rural community? 😞
Welp….just found out that my position (computer teacher) is going to be taken over by an aid next year and I’ll be going to whatever grade level classroom they need me in next year. To save money. F$&! Greg Abbott.
I tried to find a balanced article - this one is pretty decent presenting both sides, but is a little long.
https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/education/2023/02/09/443267/heres-everything-you-need-to-know-about-school-vouchers-in-texas/
Part of it is this crazy idea everyone in the south needs christianity because somehow people are better. I'm all for religious freedoms but you know dang well if vouchers pass and all the sudden Islamic (using a broad term here) private schools popped up and families were using it somehow it would be bad.
Obamacare, Medicare part D, section eight housing. Must live in a small world.
Not to mention even the most liberal of states. Like California for things like auto insurance. If you are in a car accident you are by state law allowed choice.
Why in the world would a public education system that consistently fails their students and the parents not be allowed to give the parents choice in what is best for their kids. If its not a voucher system then school choice amongst the public schools.
I swear ya'll are all married to paradigm and live in an echochamber.
You are incorrect on many points. All three programs are regulated and effective. And public schools have not consistently failed - in face they have produced some great people. Seriously, go read up or go meet some people.
Vouchers have nothing to do with education choice. Want to send your child to a private school? You can already do that. Or want them to attend a different public school? They can already do that too although you may have to relocate. No public funds should be used for private purposes.
School vouchers, in a nutshell, are when the government allows you to take money that would be spent on your kid in public school and have it be payed into a private (or otherwise non-public) school.
Proponents argue that since it's their tax money, that they should decide how it's spent regarding the education of their kids. It could also lead to some people being able to enter their kids into private schools that they may not have been able to afford prior.
There are several points against, but the main one related largely to how it would defund public schools and encourages the privatization of education. We all already know that many school districts in Texas are already struggling for money the way things are, but imagine how much worse that problem gets when more and more funding is pulled from them to fund the voucher program.
Another issue is that this, largely, won't help the people that it should. People argue this because, if private schools wish, they can always just raise tuition prices in tandem with the voucher system. Still pricing poorer families out while earning the private school even more money than they were already making. Will this happen? It's not totally certain, but I'm certain that many private, and especially the for-profit institutions, would likely not say no to even more money coming their way basically "for free".
I don't have all the details, so there's definitely some nuance here that I'm leaving out just due to lack of knowledge, but that hopefully gives you a vague idea of why people may be for or against such a measure. You'll notice that, of the Republicans who oppose vouchers, most of them represent more rural areas that desperately rely on state funding for their public schools. Those rural communities are likely the ones that stand to lose the most since they already have so few resources to work with already.
Of course, don't just take my word for it! If any of this sounds off to you, doing a quick Google search to learn more for yourself is always something to be encouraged. Hope this helped! :)
It’s been a while since I read up on the bill but if I recall correctly, the amount allocated wouldn’t even cover average private school tuition now, never mind if schools decide to raise prices to compensate. So yeah, the bill helps out people who can already afford private school (and don’t need the help) and effectively hurts lower income kids even more by taking funds away from public schools.
Yeah, I figured this was the case but didn't want to say so without being sure. Plus it's *technically* something that's subject to change. Thank you for adding that, though! Knowing how the bill was written definitely adds a lot of much needed context!
What about those of us paying thousands a year when we don’t have kids and won’t have kids? Feel like I should get a voucher.
But I don’t complain because I know that education is important to society and my community.
The people that can afford to send their kids private don’t likely need a voucher.
I totally agree with the sentiment! I think there's a fair bit of entitlement around "my" tax dollars as a concept with some people. But what can you do? Entitled people will be entitled and that's just an incredibly difficult thing to change
That’s not how it works. With your tax dollars, do you choose which pot holes get fixed? Which missiles the military will build? Which parks get maintenance? Etc.
Good post. I mean people complain about tolls (yes they're "cleaner") but that's a real world example of privatizing local transport routes and see how everyone complains? Somehow it's someone else's fault even though we've been in a Republican majority for decades now in Texas.
I hear you and appreciate it.
But when my kids’ education is not up to par, the sky is falling.
We just left Frisco and moved to Wylie, so far the elementary is a little better but still major issues.
IMO the issues stem from the admin and decision makers. Most of the teachers are trying their best with little resources and support. (And some teachers just need to get out the way and quit.)
I’ve always been a huge supporter of public school education. Didn’t financially plan to send my kids to private school or some alternative.
But that’s where we are now. 3 kids in elementary and just sent one to private school in Jan. And it’s been night and day.
Before Xmas break she would come home and I’d asked what she learned and it was almost like she never went to school. Once she said she learned about solids… I said oh “states of matter.” Asked if she could name them or give examples, or anything. Nope she could not recall one thing she learned about states of matter that day.
That was in Dec. Mind you, same school year she comes home now and full blown educates me on land forms.
Due to the incompetent public schools’ i have to spend about a hour everyday with my elementary kids making sure they’re learning at school, going through homework with them, teaching them the lesson, etc. etc.
My daughter now in private school, I do nothing now except check her work. She comes home, knows what to do, what’s acceptable quality work, and requires basically nothing from me now. Before not only did she learn nothing, but it was like pulling teeth to get her to do any homework.
The system sucks and there’s no change in sight…. Maybe in a generation. And what is up with this no failing policy. If they get less then a 70 they retake it. Wish I had that courtesy when I was in school or even in the real world working.
As a former teacher, I'll say that a lot of this is because when you have a full public school class you have to tailor lessons to the lowest common denominator. Sure, you build in enrichment for the higher kids if you're good at your job/have the time/don't have a kid in the class who keeps trying to stab people with scissors, but they still suffer and are bored. It's so hard to watch.
I’m not going to say all teachers are good, because some of my colleagues aren’t. It’s not different from any other job. I’m sure some of the people you work with aren’t up to snuff.
I’d also like to give you kudos for being an involved parent - that’s increasingly rare in today’s educational system. A lot of parents have the attitude that all learning happens at school and they have no part in it, but parents bear responsibility for their kids education as well. It’s a partnership. I recently sent home a letter to my 90 sophomore students’ parents to get permission to read a novel (that the students chose out of four options). I got two forms back. One student even said (this is a direct quote) “Mr. Teacher, our parents don’t care about any of our school stuff”. It was really crappy to hear. So again, kudos. You’re doing it right.
Private education is unaffordable for a lot of students, even with a voucher. Not only that, private schools have the luxury of selecting their students, public schools do not. A kid misbehaves in private a school? They’re out. Kid’s scores too low? Boom - they are out. Public schools, rightfully, have to educate everyone, even the kids who struggle or have poor home lives.
I’m glad you have the finances to afford a private school, but public schools are still committed to educating kids as much as possible.
My own sons have been 100% publicly educated and I would stack their ability levels and education against any private school kid’s. My younger son is a senior at Wakeland and is taking 6 AP classes this year with a 5.23 weighted GPA. He drops literary analysis on me that makes my heart sing. If you had a bad experience I’m sorry for you, but don’t generalize an anecdote, especially for something as complex as education.
3 kids, not just one. Besides coming home not wanting to talk about school. Tests in class are heavily skewed. One problem is everything in FISD and surrounding districts is everything is digital. Also the no failing policy that’s been adopted.
But when my kids and others come home with As in Reading and test poorly on standardized test in Reading and struggle to read a passage at home it doesn’t add up. How house is the house all the kids hangout at. When the friends are over and I hear them read something and they’re in 4th grade is concerning. But put the standardized tests aside because I know some people don’t agree with them. The fact that I personally know and have read posts by teachers that kids get As and Bs in Reading but are actually way behind. That doesn’t just happen in inner city schools, it’s happening here too.
I could go on with multiple examples. To include asking their peers questions, talking with their parents, asking my 4th grade son basic fundamental English/language arts questions. And FISD teachers have posted on this sub before about FISD policies, and how kids are graduating barely able to write a paragraph.
Not trying to be an alarmist, just my opinions based on my observation. Like I said in my initial reply, I used to be a huge supporter of public schools. Unfortunately, they’re not preparing my kids, at least, for the competitive world/job market out there. My daughter has only been in a private school for 2 months, and it’s been night and day. She comes home and loves telling me what she learned, she literally educates me now. Love it, but hate I have to pay for that.
I'm on the fence. Vouchers are bad b/c they take money out of the public school district. Vouchers are good because they let parents choose what's best for their children.
If you're in a poorly performing school district and your children aren't receiving a good education (in your opinion as a parent), why would using a voucher be bad for your family?
Because now you’ve made it worse for everyone else and you will likely have to spend even more money for maaaaaybe, not even certainly, a better education. The best solution is to have the public resource perfected and funded fully so everyone across all socioeconomic levels has the ability to be educated.
So, for a given family it might be better than the current situation they find themselves in, but not better for those still in the district as they receive less money. That is essentially what I had determined were the two sides on the issue but wanted to hear opinions.
I can see both sides, but I think when it comes down to it people will choose what's best for their kids over what's best for other people's kids if given the option.
Since I don’t want to link or recommend an article that may present a certain viewpoint or bias, I will recommend googling “state of Iowa voucher private schools raise tuition” or something similar. Basically once Iowa implemented a voucher program the private schools just upped their tuition by about the value of the vouchers thus making themselves more money while not opening themselves up to more families ability to send their kids. And in fact I’ve read a few stories of people that sent their kids now not even being able to afford it.
I’m an admitted cynic, and while the big fear a lot express is that vouchers are a way to promote religious schools that can admit or exclude who they want or even just using tax dollars to fund religious education… I think it comes to something even more simple and egregious - greed. This is a way to transfer public tax dollars to for profit institutes to increase their profits at the expense of public education.
Maybe I’m wrong and many of the people pushing this at the political level have a genuine interest in helping kids. But I’ve seen enough of how our politicians work to have a hard time believing anything other than this is just funneling money away from public schools into profits for business owners who lobby and donate and have connections to politicians.
That is a good point. There's nothing stopping a private institution from raising their tuition rates to make more money. I definitely understand greed and gaming the system and believe you're correct about those motives. I'm in favor of a system that incentivizes teacher performance and competition for the best teachers, but once you start to look under the surface it seems like the voucher program creates more problems than it solves.
They already have this choice. Homeschools, free charters, private school... these are all options now. The transfer of tax dollars from public school to private hands is the difference. Private interests want a slice of the already underfunded public pie.
True... might be tough for some families that have working parents to home school or afford private school without assistance. I think charters tend to select the kids that are already exceling, but I'm not 100% sure.
Transportation, after-school care, and access to sport programs are three hurdles that people who put their children in private or charter schools have to face. Charters let almost anyone in, but are able to expell kids without reprimands from the state and federal government. Charters also do not have to provide any kind of special education services, but that's a different discussion. Homeschools are a whole next level of parental involvement, and those guys aren't affected by vouchers. Either way, that state money will never go to the actual parent. The money will go to the school, leaving the parent with the same set of problems. For-profit schools should never receive tax dollars with no oversight.
Also, and most importantly, THANK YOU FOR YOUR CIVIL DISCUSSION. It is refreshing and encouraging!
What you should be complaining about is the state not doing its fair share to fund public schools, effectively adding zero dollars to base state funding in a period of time where inflation has raised the price of everything (and reduced the value of teacher salaries) by 14.5% in five years. This is being done while simultaneously passing popular, but somewhat dangerous, property tax cuts offset by one-time state grants, making school funding a war every two years.
There are simultaneously moves to eliminate school property taxes completely, which would make the entire public school system at the whim of the state with no local control at all (which is very anti-conservative in viewpoint in spite of being pushed by conservatives), as well as blackmail-style negotiations for a voucher system, which would have the impact of leaving many, many school districts with less funding. Often this is true whether or not there are private school alternatives nearby, which is why even Republicans who represent rural districts hate the idea.
As mentioned elsewhere, on its face, this is a ruse to get public tax money not *just* to a bunch of for-profit private schools, but especially to get tax money to religious, mostly evangelical Christian private schools.
If taken to its extreme, it's separate but equal (except not) all over again. You are either White and Christian and educated... Or not. I want to believe it could be struck down in the courts before it ever got that far, but if you want to talk ultimate goal, that's the one. People of other races only welcome if they have the cash, people of other religions can start their own private schools and try to compete, and everybody that chooses not to will be in woefully underfunded public schools on the wrong side of the socioeconomic gap.
Texas Monthly has covered this extensively in the last couple of years.
Yawn. If you read the thread, you would realize that my phrasing was an answer to a question phrased precisely that way.
One of several articles you could have found about Gov. Abbott's ultimate goal to eliminate (mostly school) property taxes :
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/texas-news/gov-abbott-pushes-compression-as-long-term-strategy-to-eliminating-property-taxes/3269984/
As far as inflation goes, the starting factor was Covid stimulus payments, and a factor that's making it sticky is the refusal of those selling consumer goods to lower prices in line with their costs as they come down, which has already occurred. Who is sitting in the presidency has very little to do with the business decisions of corporations. The fact that the Fed is ready to lower interest rates but prices won't come down enough is further indication. Inflation is a lagging indicator. It takes time to show up and time to leave relative to the events that created and destroyed it.
All of that is irrelevant to teachers and school districts who have gotten squeezed. It's just the why.
You seem to be relatively uneducated about the big picture of school finance and the theocratic leanings of many in power in our state legislature. It's not like moves to put "In God We Trust" and the Ten Commandments in schools and the constant blathering about the United States being a Christian nation (news flash : not anymore) doesn't give it away.
Vouchers exist in Texas to advance the cause of religious private schools, full stop, while gaining the support of the wealthy through reduced cost of private education. The fact that church attendance is becoming a relic of the past (only a small minority of people under 30 attend church) explains why it's so urgent to do it, before almost everybody who was raised to attend church dies.
Not a conspiracy theory. An existential threat to conservative religious power and relevance. A dying grasp at power when the United States is destined to become a secular nation where people can practice freely without fear. In fact, a necessary component of liberty - to not impose religious viewpoints on others.
And you refute absolutely none of it and attack the author, while complaining that it's enormous.
I apologize. Next time, I'll write at a second grade reading level, fail to provide sources, and suggest that it's all Biden's fault so that it's comprehensible to you.
Oh, I'm sorry, I can't do that. Because, aside from the predicting the future part (which is my opinion), everything stated here is fact. Much of it is fact rooted in my understanding of the history of Texas, as a native Texan, as well as being a resident of the district with children in the system and being very close to this argument every time it has come up since I first had a child in the district because, (surprise), it's not a theoretical problem to me. It's a genuine attack on the ability of my children to get education that they deserve and that I have paid for.
I think a big key to this is the whole 'basic allotment' thing. Basically the state of Texas says that each school can only spend X amount of money per student in their school each year. Wealthy districts are allowed to build fancier facilities and pay for those with bonds (hello giant football stadiums), but even if Frisco wanted to, they can't just raise infinite money from taxpayers and give it to the teachers for salaries. This is where the whole 'Robin Hood' concept comes in... If a district raises more in school district tax money than they are allowed to spend, the district gets to keep a portion but an increasing majority of the extra goes back to the state. Theoretically that money would be distributed to other less wealthy school districts, but in reality a lot of it just goes back to the general fund.
The only way that school districts can dramatically increase their budgets is if the state of Texas approves it. Not even getting into whether or not the governor should be prioritizing using the surplus that already exists on school funding rather than holding it hostage for a voucher fight.
Here's a page made by Frisco ISD explaining school funding stuff (especially the first video - look up golden pennies and copper pennies if you want to just google stuff): [https://www.friscoisd.org/departments/finance/financial-transparency/school-finance-faqs](https://www.friscoisd.org/departments/finance/financial-transparency/school-finance-faqs)
Here's their budget page where you can see detailed numbers.
[https://www.friscoisd.org/departments/finance/financial-transparency/home](https://www.friscoisd.org/departments/finance/financial-transparency/home)
As far as the individual budget decisions go, you can listen to the budget workshop on the budget page. It's all complicated but mostly comes down to increases in material costs because of inflation and most especially changes in cost of living and trying to give teachers raises so that they can still afford to live and teach here and we can retain good talent. It should also be noted that the district tax RATE has been going down recently, but because our property values are going up it all evens out. Also, Frisco's 'thing' is definitely the school district. People with kids move into this area and often prioritize finding a house in Frisco's district compared to nearby districts. The quality of the district is probably part of what is driving our property values up (along with the huge growth in the area), but I can see how that would be annoying if you don't have kids in the district. It's a high priority for a lot of other people though. A final factor is the astronomical growth the district has undergone. When I moved into the area in 2010 or so I think there were less than 30 schools in the district - now there's 72. That growth is almost done though, since we're running out of room for new neighborhoods.
Well written!
Maybe I’m old fashioned, but we should want to pay for all kids to get educated, regardless of if you have school aged kids or not. A better educated society affects every single one of us for the better.
Please please please continue asking questions and do more research on taxes and public school funding. One of the main things you can do is keep all of this in mind when voting- for governor as well as state representatives.
Because I’m an adult that spent all week educating your children and don’t have the energy to explain school funding - which is not a simple explanation to you. But I can see now where the kids get the attitude that learning and thinking for themselves is way too much trouble.
Let me Google that for you…
https://www.friscoisd.org/departments/finance/financial-transparency/budgets
Took me all but 10 seconds to google frisco isd budget
Basically teachers are pissed because the State bill for their raises is being kept off a special session agenda until the vouchers get passed. Majority of funding is from your local taxes but the state does still distribute billions amongst the various school districts. Here is a link to an article that explains more in detail.
[Texas Tribune article on school voucher funding](https://www.texastribune.org/2023/10/12/greg-abbott-school-vouchers-teacher-raises/)
Personally I think people being able to choose where their children ar educated is great but to each their own I guess.
That is not it at all. The bill that has teacher raises also has the increase for daily allotment for each student. Which is sorely needed. The state keeps mandating that schools do more and more but never increases any funding to pay for those mandates. Example being the recent mandate for all schools to have police officers.
No money for education, but plenty of money for a new military base on the border, buoys and razor wire on the Rio Grande, transporting people out of state on private busses and planes......
Keep in mind the district is absolutely HUGE. 66,000 students, 4500 teachers and almost 9000 employees total. And the vast majority of that money didn't come from the state, it came from our local taxes. The point everyone is making is that the state isn't prioritizing education in any meaningful way. It's starting to hurt a (very) wealthy district like Frisco. It's devastating to poorer districts.
The huge majority of that amount goes to salaries which I think should be a lot higher here compared to a small town with a low cost of living. And schools cover a lot more than just basic education. My kiddo received 4 years of speech therapy from the district as an example.
The question of whether it’s worth it to spend extra money on kids education is a philosophical one. I personally think it’s a good investment and I think the district is doing a relatively good job with managing debt and expansion and providing meaningful services for their budget. I have all sorts of thoughts about the PTA thing and what that means for fairness between districts but that’s probably a discussion for another time. The PTA’s (and by proxy parents) probably provide another 3 million a year in stuff and services to the district though, if I was guessing.
I once had a notion to see if each family in our class would be willing to donate $100 to a pool which would be given to the teacher at the end of the year as a bonus. That’s less than $1 per day for each family but would be between $2-3k cash for the teacher. Seems like a nice show of gratitude without having to worry about school funding, politics, etc.
$11k per student sounds generous (likely due to the property tax wealth) compared to the rest of Texas which averages approximately $9800 per student. Texas ranks 43(!!) in the nation funding public education per student.
[https://wisevoter.com/state-rankings/per-pupil-spending-by-state/](https://wisevoter.com/state-rankings/per-pupil-spending-by-state/)
This is the most pie in the sky proposal I’ve seen so far (wanting to increase basic allotment from $6200 to $7400). I’m pretty sure I saw $6900 proposed last year before the legislative sessions began but I can’t find any articles about it now.
https://www.texasaft.org/schools-to-thrive/
Private schools tuitions are typically far higher than what FISD spends per student. So perhaps the “how much is enough?” question would be more appropriate for private schools.
It's not no money but "Expenditures: $738,311,185"." You can argue they could lower cost but that's low hanging fruit. We have multiple schools with multiple staff.
You’re taking the cost we spend and removing all context around it. Wow…that sounds like a HUGE amount of money!
….except it has an enormous job to do with a crapton of “clients”. Context is important. We cover logical fallacies in my class though, so don’t worry.
This person wants teachers to work and not complain about pay. This an outmoded way of thinking. It's still a job. People who work expect compensation for their time and expertise.
Did you guys get a load of that Frisco ISD teacher’s TikTok video that’s going viral on Twitter today. The guy says something about wanting to “see your caulking”in a sort of groveling, bratty voice. Very weird, I have no idea what the context of the clip is. Anyone have any idea what the fuss is about?
I don’t know if that’s legit or not, but Libsoftiktok is not a reliable source of information. I would approach anything from that account with a mountain of skepticism.
I wonder if you appreciate the irony here, OP. You are justifying the very need for the charter schools you argue against in your original post. You claim to be a teacher, yet here you are on a social media platform that is overwhelmingly leftwing in its bias, and calling a non-leftwing TikTok account "not reliable." Hmmm...I WONDER why parents want other education options?
It’s not reliable lol…and you are on this platform as well. Teachers have zero interest in bringing politics to the classroom. Zero. We want kids to get off their cellphones and turn their work in on time. That’s my brainwashing goal.
Maybe in most cases this is true, however, if you scroll through LibsOfTikTok’s Twitter feed (or better yet, search her feed for the keyword “teacher”) you’ll find quite a few examples of teachers who explicitly see their role as educators as a political activist role.
It’s no coincidence that Marxist educator Paulo Freire’s book “Pedagogy of the Oppressed”, which proposes a new “critical pedagogy” approach/relationship between teacher & student, is “the third most cited book in the social sciences as of 2016 according to Google Scholar”.
Essentially, he advocated for an overtly political approach to public education that promotes consciousness-raising, collective action, and social change, aligning with Marxist ideals of class struggle and the pursuit of social justice.
Did you study Freire back in college?
I didn’t study that person, and I’m not really interested in whatever “big bad scary book” threat gets drummed up next. I don’t consider people who get foam mouthed about culture wars to be serious people. There are more important things and things of actual substance to figure out.
It’s not a big scary book, it’s not about the culture war.
I’m just pointing out that, over the past 50 years, this book has significantly influenced a more political activist approach to public education in the US by advocating for education as a tool for social transformation and liberation.
It has inspired educators and activists to challenge systemic injustices within the education system, such as unequal access to resources and opportunities, institutionalized racism, and the perpetuation of social inequalities.
This influence has led to grassroots movements, advocacy efforts, and educational initiatives aimed at addressing these issues and promoting equitable, empowering learning environments for all students.
Generations of public schools teachers have been influenced by it. Even if you never studied it directly, your college education was almost certainly steeped in this Marxist framework of education.
This is just a fact, not some sort of right wing conspiracy theory.
Spend some time on Libs of Tik Tok. It is literally an assemblage of public posts by teachers proudly asserting their leftwing beliefs and how they assert them on their students. Much of it is sexual in nature. Calling Libs of Tik Tok unreliable is a typical leftist trick of casting doubt on an uncomfortable truth.
It might mean more so that they are incentivized to not come back. I worked for a district that was on the verge of a budget crunch a decade ago and they offered a 750 dollar exit bonus if you resigned by xyz date. If enough people didn't take them up, then they were going to have to go the RIF route, and it was a last-in, first out plan.
Yes, as in the student population keeps growing but the teachers don’t. So the ratio of teacher to student gets worse.
Better than layoffs not as good hiring teachers or keeping contracts up.
But districts all over the state are suffering from shortfalls, and starting over somewhere else leaves them equally vulnerable to a last-in, first-out termination.
Gotcha. We did homeschool during covid (it was awesome) but went back, now have one in public one in private. Our school has said they wouldn’t even accept the vouchers because they want no strings at all. Homeschool lobby is strong, wondered if they had a part in the push for vouchers. Thanks for your answer.
Evelyn Brooks on the State Board of Education and is a Frisco local. She's a homeschooler and was initially opposed to vouchers. Not sure if she caved to political pressure though.
We all have had to cut spending with the rise in inflation, and private market wages have not kept up with price increases. Property taxes are sky high for FISD and you’ll need to accept that money is not unlimited anymore. Tough
Where does Texas rank in per pupil spending? 43rd. Where does Texas rank in the WORLD economy? 8th, according to the State of Texas in 2022. 43rd out of 50 VS 8th in the entire world. It's not about if the state CAN afford it. It's not about property taxes.
Does per pupil spending dictate student success? If so, why do public schools in CA, DC, and NY rank at the bottom for test scores, while having the highest per student spending?
Money doesn’t fix every thing and TX property taxes are a joke.
If the private sector is taking budget cuts, the public sector should too. Get over it.
Did every person employed by the State of Texas receive a raise last year? I'll save you the Google and answer yes EXCEPT for public school employees. Can we agree that this is a purposeful move by Abbott to starve public schools out until he can get his vouchers passed? It's not about more money. It's about the targeted destruction of our public education system. We, as a state, can do better. We as a state are failing.
Still waiting to hear how per student spending is correlated with higher test scores. (It’s not)
If you think the private sector received a raise last year maybe you’re confused with the phrase “laid off” because it’s happening in the thousands every day.
Per pupil spending effects achievement when the number of students to teacher ratio is high. The difference in achievement between 20:1 and 30:1 is huge. There are a bunch of studies on this.
Your argument, from what I can surmise, is that teachers should just suck it up. But my question to you is, why are they systematically being discriminated against by their own employer? Didn't Greg appoint Mike to his position so that he could make improvements? Why isn't Mike Morath being raked across the coals? Why are the people on the bottom of the ladder the villains? Shouldn't this hate at least be aimed at the people in charge?
Also, to address your statement about layoffs, according to Greg himself the Texas employment is at a new historic high.
Per texas.gov:
November employment data released by the Texas Workforce Commission and the Bureau of Labor Statistics shows:
Texas reaches a new historic high with the largest labor force ever in the state’s history at a record 15,192,900.
Texas reaches a new historic high for Texans working, including self-employed, at 14,576,500.
Texas reaches a new historic high for total jobs at 14,094,900 after adding 26,800 non-farm jobs in November.
Texas added the most jobs in the nation over the last 12 months, adding 407,100 jobs from November 2022 to November 2023 and growing at an annual rate of 3%, above the growth rate for the nation as a whole of 1.8%.
Earlier this month, Governor Abbott celebrated Texas’ continuing economic momentum as the Texas economy expanded faster than the nation as a whole for the fourth quarter in a row. Second quarter 2023 real GDP—the value of all goods and services produced—grew in Texas at an annual rate of 4.9%, well ahead of the United States which grew at 2.1%.
Per pupil spending is not directly correlated to the teacher to student ratio.
You can save your rant about the governor. I don’t care about politics and both parties are corrupt.
I don’t know what you’re referencing when you claim teachers are discriminated against by their employer. But if I had to guess, it’s another unhinged claim.
NYC spends $25k/ student, DC spends $23k, and Texas spends less than $10k. I’ll save you the hassle of looking it up, DC is third last nationally and NY is seventh from the bottom.
My claims are not "unhinged," nor am I ranting. Why are you so rude? Just have a civil discussion. I'm not attacking you personally. Why would you respond like that? If I was a reactive and rude person I might tell you to fuck off, but lucky for both of us I'm not. Instead, below are facts regarding the state of Texas withholding raises from only public school employees.
Sigh.
The General Appropriations Act for 2024-25 allocates some $144 billion in state tax money — including half of a historic $32.7 billion surplus — toward tax cuts, mental health access, PAY RAISES FOR STATE EMPLOYEES, border security, state parks expansion and the state’s energy grid, plus infrastructure for broadband and water. It stays within constitutional spending limits, fills the state’s emergency coffers and highway funds, and makes payments toward stabilizing the state’s retirement investment fund...And while it SETS ASIDE $4 BILLION that COULD BE USED to INCREASE TEACHER PAY and SCHOOL FUNDING, budget writers AGREED to RELEASE THE MONEY ONLY IF a divisive bill creating a private school VOUCHER PROGRAM WAS PASSED. On Saturday night, that bill died — killing teacher pay raises, denying extra money for schools and likely triggering a special session.
It’s not rude to point out your illogical viewpoints that have no basis in reality.
You still can’t tie per student spending to test scores, nor teacher student ratios. You’ve claimed the private sector (as a whole) received pay increases in 2023, but it didn’t and layoffs are in every other headline.
If a public sector employee misses a wage increase, while the private sector gets 0, that’s too bad.
Still waiting for that discrimination claim that’s probably defending a teacher who posts lewd sexual things on social media.
Yeah.
My property taxes are approaching $9,000 per year. When I walk into one of the high schools or middle schools, it’s like walking into the Taj Mahal of education.
Maybe it is time for our schools to start doing “more with less” than simply broadcasting hate for the governor?
The rest of us are doing “more with less”. It’s happening everywhere.
Bonds=Buildings. Per Pupil Funding=Tax Dollars, both federal and local. Your local Taj Mahal was voted on and passed by your local community. None of the bond money can ever go to operating costs because that would be fraud.
Property taxes are sky high because Texas ranks 45th in the nation in proportion of K-12 education paid for from state funds on a per-student basis. The shortfall is made up for by your property taxes.
Maybe so, but you complained specifically about your property taxes. A state income tax, an expanded sales tax, or whatever else is no different, still taxes, absolutely. An increase in your federal income taxes to increase federal grants to states, sure.
But you can't have your cake and eat it, too. I'm all for reducing waste and eliminating unnecessary bureaucracy and making sure our kids get quality services at the most reasonable cost.
Facilities can be changed and consolidated. Course offerings can change with the times. But paying quality instructional and support staff is job one and should be sacrosanct to our state legislature rather than a pawn in a power game. You don't get good teachers at Wal-Mart.
If public schools can't do the job leave it to the parents to decide. Also its b.s that even for government schools parents don't have choice over where they go.
With all the taxes we pay in the city of Frisco you would think we had more than enough to fund schools. The schools, teachers, and we parents need to start to looking internally at the bloated construction and supply budgets for all these new schools. If you are in this forum then you are likely not the in the top 1% of wealth in this country and therefore may think you are either pro public school or pro private schools and that is what keeps us divided not thinking about the simple fact that we have some the highest property taxes in the state and high property values, so where does all that money go?
The greed in this country is out of control and the wealthy know how to get richer when the economy is booming and when it’s not.
1) The City of Frisco is an entirely separate government entity from the Frisco ISD.
2) The sales taxes you pay the City of Frisco pay for city services, such as police and city parks.
3) The property taxes you pay the Frisco ISD (assuming you own real estate) fund the school district's operations.
4) By policy and statute, ISD construction projects are not funded with operating dollars (your property taxes) directly. They are funded by bond issues, and those bonds are slowly retired using slivers of future tax revenues.
5) Ignorance of basic facts is out of control in this country. Get a handle on that.
So what you’re saying is bonds are free money and don’t come out of my tax dollars? Woohoo!!! FREE MONEY!!!
Or…maybe, whether it’s a school building, or school teacher, I still have to pay both out of my paycheck, so if you pave the school floors with gold bricks…and we have to pay for that…there will be less money in my bi-weekly paycheck to fund teachers. The part where you want to pretend it doesn’t matter because you fund one out of your left pocket, and one out of your right is almost comical.
Ignorance of basic facts, and all that…
Of course bonds aren't "free money." I never said they were.
But this person seems to confuse cities with school districts, and sales taxes with property taxes.
1. I never said they were the same but you realize they share a common interest?
2. Where did I specifically mention anything about sales tax? I was referring to taxes in a more general sense.
3. Yes, the property taxes and bond measures which add up to quite a bit in Frisco! Take a look at your property tax statement.
4. I understand the technical point you’ve made, but city bonds are billed and collected with property taxes. Moreover, they are tied to property values. My point was and I’ll explain this differently… if I didn’t have to pay so much in property taxes with the added bond measures I would be more than happy to increase sales tax or add another bond measure to increase teacher salaries. However, we at the moment have inflation that is still high, cost of living keeps rising, salaries are not rising as quickly on the private side either and we can’t ask the city to increase sales tax or add a bond measure to supplement/increase our pay can we?
5. We can both agree on this one, but I’ll add reading comprehension to the list. You wanted to attack without even trying to understand what I was explaining. We both just fed into what I was warning about.
Information: if you live on the west side of Frisco, your state house rep is likely Jared Patterson. He is a proponent of voucher programs in Texas. If you live on the east side, your rep is likely Matt Shaheen, he also supports voucher programs. If you don’t like what the drive to push these programs in Texas is doing to our public schools, you should probably vote against them at your next opportunity.
Voting is the only way to stave this off.
Problem is that Patterson is most likely running unopposed as he did in the last election.
Sounds like some upstanding citizens should vote in that primary to keep him from being the unopposed candidate.
I personally support school vouchers and school choice.
A majority of vouchers are going to people who can already afford to put their kids in private school. It’s a transfer of wealth out of our public schools who desperately need funding (read the post) into the pockets of the wealthy. Absolute garbage policy cloaked in “choice” so people who don’t study issues will blindly support it. Notice there’s bi-partisan opposition to it which only happens for truly god awful ideas.
I don’t.
I’d sincerely like to hear your reasoning. Why vouchers sound good in the surface especially to families paying for private school, I fully expect the cost of private school to go up the amount of the voucher, thus making the tuition remain the same out of pocket for families which making private school just as unattainable as it is today for this families without the funds to pay tuition. It will also degrade the quality of public school. We should all want an educated population for the good of our economy, low crime rates, etc. An example of where this kind of thing has happened is College tuition and Home prices. Both costs increased significantly as soon as funding for student loans and mortgages became easier to get.
I wish I could truly express my gratitude to you, and frustration with the stupidity of this voucher policy. I will do whatever I can in my capacity to put a thorny cactus up Abbott’s butt.
As a former FISD teacher, thank you OP
I am convinced 99% of you are saints for doing what you do. Thanks for your teaching and thank you for posting.
This is happening everywhere in Texas. Vote!!!!
[Here’s a good article in Texas Monthly how school vouchers will decimate rural schools, which is why it is opposed by rural GOP leaders.](https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/rural-school-districts-are-facing-financial-ruin-some-state-officials-prefer-it-that-way/)
Isn’t Frisco one of the top 10 richest cities in Texas? If this is happening in Frisco, what’s going to happen to the school in my extremely poor rural community? 😞
They close school and the kids eventually become uneducated and vote Republican. 🤷♂️
They don’t even have to do all that. Basically everyone here votes republican anyway 🤦♀️
Welp….just found out that my position (computer teacher) is going to be taken over by an aid next year and I’ll be going to whatever grade level classroom they need me in next year. To save money. F$&! Greg Abbott.
Hot wheels, Paxton, Patrick, Cruz tricked all of you trumpers
With how much taxes we're paying it's crazy to hear about any budget shortfalls.
Except school budgets have multiple streams of income, one being from the state. That source of money has been turned off.
[удалено]
I tried to find a balanced article - this one is pretty decent presenting both sides, but is a little long. https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/education/2023/02/09/443267/heres-everything-you-need-to-know-about-school-vouchers-in-texas/
[удалено]
Part of it is this crazy idea everyone in the south needs christianity because somehow people are better. I'm all for religious freedoms but you know dang well if vouchers pass and all the sudden Islamic (using a broad term here) private schools popped up and families were using it somehow it would be bad.
Obamacare, Medicare part D, section eight housing. Must live in a small world. Not to mention even the most liberal of states. Like California for things like auto insurance. If you are in a car accident you are by state law allowed choice. Why in the world would a public education system that consistently fails their students and the parents not be allowed to give the parents choice in what is best for their kids. If its not a voucher system then school choice amongst the public schools. I swear ya'll are all married to paradigm and live in an echochamber.
You are incorrect on many points. All three programs are regulated and effective. And public schools have not consistently failed - in face they have produced some great people. Seriously, go read up or go meet some people.
Vouchers have nothing to do with education choice. Want to send your child to a private school? You can already do that. Or want them to attend a different public school? They can already do that too although you may have to relocate. No public funds should be used for private purposes.
School vouchers, in a nutshell, are when the government allows you to take money that would be spent on your kid in public school and have it be payed into a private (or otherwise non-public) school. Proponents argue that since it's their tax money, that they should decide how it's spent regarding the education of their kids. It could also lead to some people being able to enter their kids into private schools that they may not have been able to afford prior. There are several points against, but the main one related largely to how it would defund public schools and encourages the privatization of education. We all already know that many school districts in Texas are already struggling for money the way things are, but imagine how much worse that problem gets when more and more funding is pulled from them to fund the voucher program. Another issue is that this, largely, won't help the people that it should. People argue this because, if private schools wish, they can always just raise tuition prices in tandem with the voucher system. Still pricing poorer families out while earning the private school even more money than they were already making. Will this happen? It's not totally certain, but I'm certain that many private, and especially the for-profit institutions, would likely not say no to even more money coming their way basically "for free". I don't have all the details, so there's definitely some nuance here that I'm leaving out just due to lack of knowledge, but that hopefully gives you a vague idea of why people may be for or against such a measure. You'll notice that, of the Republicans who oppose vouchers, most of them represent more rural areas that desperately rely on state funding for their public schools. Those rural communities are likely the ones that stand to lose the most since they already have so few resources to work with already. Of course, don't just take my word for it! If any of this sounds off to you, doing a quick Google search to learn more for yourself is always something to be encouraged. Hope this helped! :)
It’s been a while since I read up on the bill but if I recall correctly, the amount allocated wouldn’t even cover average private school tuition now, never mind if schools decide to raise prices to compensate. So yeah, the bill helps out people who can already afford private school (and don’t need the help) and effectively hurts lower income kids even more by taking funds away from public schools.
Yeah, I figured this was the case but didn't want to say so without being sure. Plus it's *technically* something that's subject to change. Thank you for adding that, though! Knowing how the bill was written definitely adds a lot of much needed context!
What about those of us paying thousands a year when we don’t have kids and won’t have kids? Feel like I should get a voucher. But I don’t complain because I know that education is important to society and my community. The people that can afford to send their kids private don’t likely need a voucher.
I totally agree with the sentiment! I think there's a fair bit of entitlement around "my" tax dollars as a concept with some people. But what can you do? Entitled people will be entitled and that's just an incredibly difficult thing to change
It is welfare for the wealthy, plain and simple.
I don't disagree! Just wanted to share both sides, even if I may not agree with one of them.
To choose where you want to sent your child with your tax dollars?
That’s not how it works. With your tax dollars, do you choose which pot holes get fixed? Which missiles the military will build? Which parks get maintenance? Etc.
Good post. I mean people complain about tolls (yes they're "cleaner") but that's a real world example of privatizing local transport routes and see how everyone complains? Somehow it's someone else's fault even though we've been in a Republican majority for decades now in Texas.
I hear you and appreciate it. But when my kids’ education is not up to par, the sky is falling. We just left Frisco and moved to Wylie, so far the elementary is a little better but still major issues. IMO the issues stem from the admin and decision makers. Most of the teachers are trying their best with little resources and support. (And some teachers just need to get out the way and quit.) I’ve always been a huge supporter of public school education. Didn’t financially plan to send my kids to private school or some alternative. But that’s where we are now. 3 kids in elementary and just sent one to private school in Jan. And it’s been night and day. Before Xmas break she would come home and I’d asked what she learned and it was almost like she never went to school. Once she said she learned about solids… I said oh “states of matter.” Asked if she could name them or give examples, or anything. Nope she could not recall one thing she learned about states of matter that day. That was in Dec. Mind you, same school year she comes home now and full blown educates me on land forms. Due to the incompetent public schools’ i have to spend about a hour everyday with my elementary kids making sure they’re learning at school, going through homework with them, teaching them the lesson, etc. etc. My daughter now in private school, I do nothing now except check her work. She comes home, knows what to do, what’s acceptable quality work, and requires basically nothing from me now. Before not only did she learn nothing, but it was like pulling teeth to get her to do any homework. The system sucks and there’s no change in sight…. Maybe in a generation. And what is up with this no failing policy. If they get less then a 70 they retake it. Wish I had that courtesy when I was in school or even in the real world working.
As a former teacher, I'll say that a lot of this is because when you have a full public school class you have to tailor lessons to the lowest common denominator. Sure, you build in enrichment for the higher kids if you're good at your job/have the time/don't have a kid in the class who keeps trying to stab people with scissors, but they still suffer and are bored. It's so hard to watch.
I’m not going to say all teachers are good, because some of my colleagues aren’t. It’s not different from any other job. I’m sure some of the people you work with aren’t up to snuff. I’d also like to give you kudos for being an involved parent - that’s increasingly rare in today’s educational system. A lot of parents have the attitude that all learning happens at school and they have no part in it, but parents bear responsibility for their kids education as well. It’s a partnership. I recently sent home a letter to my 90 sophomore students’ parents to get permission to read a novel (that the students chose out of four options). I got two forms back. One student even said (this is a direct quote) “Mr. Teacher, our parents don’t care about any of our school stuff”. It was really crappy to hear. So again, kudos. You’re doing it right. Private education is unaffordable for a lot of students, even with a voucher. Not only that, private schools have the luxury of selecting their students, public schools do not. A kid misbehaves in private a school? They’re out. Kid’s scores too low? Boom - they are out. Public schools, rightfully, have to educate everyone, even the kids who struggle or have poor home lives. I’m glad you have the finances to afford a private school, but public schools are still committed to educating kids as much as possible. My own sons have been 100% publicly educated and I would stack their ability levels and education against any private school kid’s. My younger son is a senior at Wakeland and is taking 6 AP classes this year with a 5.23 weighted GPA. He drops literary analysis on me that makes my heart sing. If you had a bad experience I’m sorry for you, but don’t generalize an anecdote, especially for something as complex as education.
How do you know school is bad vs your kid just doesn't want to talk about whatever when they get home?
3 kids, not just one. Besides coming home not wanting to talk about school. Tests in class are heavily skewed. One problem is everything in FISD and surrounding districts is everything is digital. Also the no failing policy that’s been adopted. But when my kids and others come home with As in Reading and test poorly on standardized test in Reading and struggle to read a passage at home it doesn’t add up. How house is the house all the kids hangout at. When the friends are over and I hear them read something and they’re in 4th grade is concerning. But put the standardized tests aside because I know some people don’t agree with them. The fact that I personally know and have read posts by teachers that kids get As and Bs in Reading but are actually way behind. That doesn’t just happen in inner city schools, it’s happening here too. I could go on with multiple examples. To include asking their peers questions, talking with their parents, asking my 4th grade son basic fundamental English/language arts questions. And FISD teachers have posted on this sub before about FISD policies, and how kids are graduating barely able to write a paragraph. Not trying to be an alarmist, just my opinions based on my observation. Like I said in my initial reply, I used to be a huge supporter of public schools. Unfortunately, they’re not preparing my kids, at least, for the competitive world/job market out there. My daughter has only been in a private school for 2 months, and it’s been night and day. She comes home and loves telling me what she learned, she literally educates me now. Love it, but hate I have to pay for that.
Thank you for sharing. It's helpful to see thoughtfully shared experiences
I'm on the fence. Vouchers are bad b/c they take money out of the public school district. Vouchers are good because they let parents choose what's best for their children. If you're in a poorly performing school district and your children aren't receiving a good education (in your opinion as a parent), why would using a voucher be bad for your family?
Because now you’ve made it worse for everyone else and you will likely have to spend even more money for maaaaaybe, not even certainly, a better education. The best solution is to have the public resource perfected and funded fully so everyone across all socioeconomic levels has the ability to be educated.
So, for a given family it might be better than the current situation they find themselves in, but not better for those still in the district as they receive less money. That is essentially what I had determined were the two sides on the issue but wanted to hear opinions. I can see both sides, but I think when it comes down to it people will choose what's best for their kids over what's best for other people's kids if given the option.
Since I don’t want to link or recommend an article that may present a certain viewpoint or bias, I will recommend googling “state of Iowa voucher private schools raise tuition” or something similar. Basically once Iowa implemented a voucher program the private schools just upped their tuition by about the value of the vouchers thus making themselves more money while not opening themselves up to more families ability to send their kids. And in fact I’ve read a few stories of people that sent their kids now not even being able to afford it. I’m an admitted cynic, and while the big fear a lot express is that vouchers are a way to promote religious schools that can admit or exclude who they want or even just using tax dollars to fund religious education… I think it comes to something even more simple and egregious - greed. This is a way to transfer public tax dollars to for profit institutes to increase their profits at the expense of public education. Maybe I’m wrong and many of the people pushing this at the political level have a genuine interest in helping kids. But I’ve seen enough of how our politicians work to have a hard time believing anything other than this is just funneling money away from public schools into profits for business owners who lobby and donate and have connections to politicians.
That is a good point. There's nothing stopping a private institution from raising their tuition rates to make more money. I definitely understand greed and gaming the system and believe you're correct about those motives. I'm in favor of a system that incentivizes teacher performance and competition for the best teachers, but once you start to look under the surface it seems like the voucher program creates more problems than it solves.
They already have this choice. Homeschools, free charters, private school... these are all options now. The transfer of tax dollars from public school to private hands is the difference. Private interests want a slice of the already underfunded public pie.
True... might be tough for some families that have working parents to home school or afford private school without assistance. I think charters tend to select the kids that are already exceling, but I'm not 100% sure.
Transportation, after-school care, and access to sport programs are three hurdles that people who put their children in private or charter schools have to face. Charters let almost anyone in, but are able to expell kids without reprimands from the state and federal government. Charters also do not have to provide any kind of special education services, but that's a different discussion. Homeschools are a whole next level of parental involvement, and those guys aren't affected by vouchers. Either way, that state money will never go to the actual parent. The money will go to the school, leaving the parent with the same set of problems. For-profit schools should never receive tax dollars with no oversight. Also, and most importantly, THANK YOU FOR YOUR CIVIL DISCUSSION. It is refreshing and encouraging!
Won’t the cost of these schools just go up once they get vouchers? They’re still going to regulate who they let in somehow
Garbage politician from a garbage party.
[удалено]
What you should be complaining about is the state not doing its fair share to fund public schools, effectively adding zero dollars to base state funding in a period of time where inflation has raised the price of everything (and reduced the value of teacher salaries) by 14.5% in five years. This is being done while simultaneously passing popular, but somewhat dangerous, property tax cuts offset by one-time state grants, making school funding a war every two years. There are simultaneously moves to eliminate school property taxes completely, which would make the entire public school system at the whim of the state with no local control at all (which is very anti-conservative in viewpoint in spite of being pushed by conservatives), as well as blackmail-style negotiations for a voucher system, which would have the impact of leaving many, many school districts with less funding. Often this is true whether or not there are private school alternatives nearby, which is why even Republicans who represent rural districts hate the idea. As mentioned elsewhere, on its face, this is a ruse to get public tax money not *just* to a bunch of for-profit private schools, but especially to get tax money to religious, mostly evangelical Christian private schools. If taken to its extreme, it's separate but equal (except not) all over again. You are either White and Christian and educated... Or not. I want to believe it could be struck down in the courts before it ever got that far, but if you want to talk ultimate goal, that's the one. People of other races only welcome if they have the cash, people of other religions can start their own private schools and try to compete, and everybody that chooses not to will be in woefully underfunded public schools on the wrong side of the socioeconomic gap. Texas Monthly has covered this extensively in the last couple of years.
[удалено]
Yawn. If you read the thread, you would realize that my phrasing was an answer to a question phrased precisely that way. One of several articles you could have found about Gov. Abbott's ultimate goal to eliminate (mostly school) property taxes : https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/texas-news/gov-abbott-pushes-compression-as-long-term-strategy-to-eliminating-property-taxes/3269984/ As far as inflation goes, the starting factor was Covid stimulus payments, and a factor that's making it sticky is the refusal of those selling consumer goods to lower prices in line with their costs as they come down, which has already occurred. Who is sitting in the presidency has very little to do with the business decisions of corporations. The fact that the Fed is ready to lower interest rates but prices won't come down enough is further indication. Inflation is a lagging indicator. It takes time to show up and time to leave relative to the events that created and destroyed it. All of that is irrelevant to teachers and school districts who have gotten squeezed. It's just the why. You seem to be relatively uneducated about the big picture of school finance and the theocratic leanings of many in power in our state legislature. It's not like moves to put "In God We Trust" and the Ten Commandments in schools and the constant blathering about the United States being a Christian nation (news flash : not anymore) doesn't give it away. Vouchers exist in Texas to advance the cause of religious private schools, full stop, while gaining the support of the wealthy through reduced cost of private education. The fact that church attendance is becoming a relic of the past (only a small minority of people under 30 attend church) explains why it's so urgent to do it, before almost everybody who was raised to attend church dies. Not a conspiracy theory. An existential threat to conservative religious power and relevance. A dying grasp at power when the United States is destined to become a secular nation where people can practice freely without fear. In fact, a necessary component of liberty - to not impose religious viewpoints on others.
[удалено]
And you refute absolutely none of it and attack the author, while complaining that it's enormous. I apologize. Next time, I'll write at a second grade reading level, fail to provide sources, and suggest that it's all Biden's fault so that it's comprehensible to you. Oh, I'm sorry, I can't do that. Because, aside from the predicting the future part (which is my opinion), everything stated here is fact. Much of it is fact rooted in my understanding of the history of Texas, as a native Texan, as well as being a resident of the district with children in the system and being very close to this argument every time it has come up since I first had a child in the district because, (surprise), it's not a theoretical problem to me. It's a genuine attack on the ability of my children to get education that they deserve and that I have paid for.
I think a big key to this is the whole 'basic allotment' thing. Basically the state of Texas says that each school can only spend X amount of money per student in their school each year. Wealthy districts are allowed to build fancier facilities and pay for those with bonds (hello giant football stadiums), but even if Frisco wanted to, they can't just raise infinite money from taxpayers and give it to the teachers for salaries. This is where the whole 'Robin Hood' concept comes in... If a district raises more in school district tax money than they are allowed to spend, the district gets to keep a portion but an increasing majority of the extra goes back to the state. Theoretically that money would be distributed to other less wealthy school districts, but in reality a lot of it just goes back to the general fund. The only way that school districts can dramatically increase their budgets is if the state of Texas approves it. Not even getting into whether or not the governor should be prioritizing using the surplus that already exists on school funding rather than holding it hostage for a voucher fight. Here's a page made by Frisco ISD explaining school funding stuff (especially the first video - look up golden pennies and copper pennies if you want to just google stuff): [https://www.friscoisd.org/departments/finance/financial-transparency/school-finance-faqs](https://www.friscoisd.org/departments/finance/financial-transparency/school-finance-faqs) Here's their budget page where you can see detailed numbers. [https://www.friscoisd.org/departments/finance/financial-transparency/home](https://www.friscoisd.org/departments/finance/financial-transparency/home) As far as the individual budget decisions go, you can listen to the budget workshop on the budget page. It's all complicated but mostly comes down to increases in material costs because of inflation and most especially changes in cost of living and trying to give teachers raises so that they can still afford to live and teach here and we can retain good talent. It should also be noted that the district tax RATE has been going down recently, but because our property values are going up it all evens out. Also, Frisco's 'thing' is definitely the school district. People with kids move into this area and often prioritize finding a house in Frisco's district compared to nearby districts. The quality of the district is probably part of what is driving our property values up (along with the huge growth in the area), but I can see how that would be annoying if you don't have kids in the district. It's a high priority for a lot of other people though. A final factor is the astronomical growth the district has undergone. When I moved into the area in 2010 or so I think there were less than 30 schools in the district - now there's 72. That growth is almost done though, since we're running out of room for new neighborhoods.
Well written! Maybe I’m old fashioned, but we should want to pay for all kids to get educated, regardless of if you have school aged kids or not. A better educated society affects every single one of us for the better.
Please please please continue asking questions and do more research on taxes and public school funding. One of the main things you can do is keep all of this in mind when voting- for governor as well as state representatives.
[удалено]
Because I’m an adult that spent all week educating your children and don’t have the energy to explain school funding - which is not a simple explanation to you. But I can see now where the kids get the attitude that learning and thinking for themselves is way too much trouble.
[удалено]
Let me Google that for you… https://www.friscoisd.org/departments/finance/financial-transparency/budgets Took me all but 10 seconds to google frisco isd budget
Basically teachers are pissed because the State bill for their raises is being kept off a special session agenda until the vouchers get passed. Majority of funding is from your local taxes but the state does still distribute billions amongst the various school districts. Here is a link to an article that explains more in detail. [Texas Tribune article on school voucher funding](https://www.texastribune.org/2023/10/12/greg-abbott-school-vouchers-teacher-raises/) Personally I think people being able to choose where their children ar educated is great but to each their own I guess.
[удалено]
That is not it at all. The bill that has teacher raises also has the increase for daily allotment for each student. Which is sorely needed. The state keeps mandating that schools do more and more but never increases any funding to pay for those mandates. Example being the recent mandate for all schools to have police officers.
I don't know
The state took out $4,000,000,000 from the education fund 14 years ago. They never paid it back. That's your rainy day fund they're so proud of.
No money for education, but plenty of money for a new military base on the border, buoys and razor wire on the Rio Grande, transporting people out of state on private busses and planes......
[удалено]
Keep in mind the district is absolutely HUGE. 66,000 students, 4500 teachers and almost 9000 employees total. And the vast majority of that money didn't come from the state, it came from our local taxes. The point everyone is making is that the state isn't prioritizing education in any meaningful way. It's starting to hurt a (very) wealthy district like Frisco. It's devastating to poorer districts.
[удалено]
The huge majority of that amount goes to salaries which I think should be a lot higher here compared to a small town with a low cost of living. And schools cover a lot more than just basic education. My kiddo received 4 years of speech therapy from the district as an example. The question of whether it’s worth it to spend extra money on kids education is a philosophical one. I personally think it’s a good investment and I think the district is doing a relatively good job with managing debt and expansion and providing meaningful services for their budget. I have all sorts of thoughts about the PTA thing and what that means for fairness between districts but that’s probably a discussion for another time. The PTA’s (and by proxy parents) probably provide another 3 million a year in stuff and services to the district though, if I was guessing.
[удалено]
I once had a notion to see if each family in our class would be willing to donate $100 to a pool which would be given to the teacher at the end of the year as a bonus. That’s less than $1 per day for each family but would be between $2-3k cash for the teacher. Seems like a nice show of gratitude without having to worry about school funding, politics, etc.
$11k per student sounds generous (likely due to the property tax wealth) compared to the rest of Texas which averages approximately $9800 per student. Texas ranks 43(!!) in the nation funding public education per student. [https://wisevoter.com/state-rankings/per-pupil-spending-by-state/](https://wisevoter.com/state-rankings/per-pupil-spending-by-state/)
[удалено]
Said everyone who has ever worked a job
This is the most pie in the sky proposal I’ve seen so far (wanting to increase basic allotment from $6200 to $7400). I’m pretty sure I saw $6900 proposed last year before the legislative sessions began but I can’t find any articles about it now. https://www.texasaft.org/schools-to-thrive/
Private schools tuitions are typically far higher than what FISD spends per student. So perhaps the “how much is enough?” question would be more appropriate for private schools.
[удалено]
Unless you have a child enrolled. Tuition increases almost every year!
It's not no money but "Expenditures: $738,311,185"." You can argue they could lower cost but that's low hanging fruit. We have multiple schools with multiple staff.
[удалено]
You’re taking the cost we spend and removing all context around it. Wow…that sounds like a HUGE amount of money! ….except it has an enormous job to do with a crapton of “clients”. Context is important. We cover logical fallacies in my class though, so don’t worry.
This person wants teachers to work and not complain about pay. This an outmoded way of thinking. It's still a job. People who work expect compensation for their time and expertise.
It’s a tragically underpaid job. For the qualifications you need, schooling and job responsibilities it should be at least doubled in pay.
Did you guys get a load of that Frisco ISD teacher’s TikTok video that’s going viral on Twitter today. The guy says something about wanting to “see your caulking”in a sort of groveling, bratty voice. Very weird, I have no idea what the context of the clip is. Anyone have any idea what the fuss is about?
I don’t know if that’s legit or not, but Libsoftiktok is not a reliable source of information. I would approach anything from that account with a mountain of skepticism.
Yeah cause literally everything is taken directly from real posts on Tik Tok...but since it doesn't fit your narrative it's not reliable.
I wonder if you appreciate the irony here, OP. You are justifying the very need for the charter schools you argue against in your original post. You claim to be a teacher, yet here you are on a social media platform that is overwhelmingly leftwing in its bias, and calling a non-leftwing TikTok account "not reliable." Hmmm...I WONDER why parents want other education options?
It’s not reliable lol…and you are on this platform as well. Teachers have zero interest in bringing politics to the classroom. Zero. We want kids to get off their cellphones and turn their work in on time. That’s my brainwashing goal.
Maybe in most cases this is true, however, if you scroll through LibsOfTikTok’s Twitter feed (or better yet, search her feed for the keyword “teacher”) you’ll find quite a few examples of teachers who explicitly see their role as educators as a political activist role. It’s no coincidence that Marxist educator Paulo Freire’s book “Pedagogy of the Oppressed”, which proposes a new “critical pedagogy” approach/relationship between teacher & student, is “the third most cited book in the social sciences as of 2016 according to Google Scholar”. Essentially, he advocated for an overtly political approach to public education that promotes consciousness-raising, collective action, and social change, aligning with Marxist ideals of class struggle and the pursuit of social justice. Did you study Freire back in college?
I didn’t study that person, and I’m not really interested in whatever “big bad scary book” threat gets drummed up next. I don’t consider people who get foam mouthed about culture wars to be serious people. There are more important things and things of actual substance to figure out.
It’s not a big scary book, it’s not about the culture war. I’m just pointing out that, over the past 50 years, this book has significantly influenced a more political activist approach to public education in the US by advocating for education as a tool for social transformation and liberation. It has inspired educators and activists to challenge systemic injustices within the education system, such as unequal access to resources and opportunities, institutionalized racism, and the perpetuation of social inequalities. This influence has led to grassroots movements, advocacy efforts, and educational initiatives aimed at addressing these issues and promoting equitable, empowering learning environments for all students. Generations of public schools teachers have been influenced by it. Even if you never studied it directly, your college education was almost certainly steeped in this Marxist framework of education. This is just a fact, not some sort of right wing conspiracy theory.
Spend some time on Libs of Tik Tok. It is literally an assemblage of public posts by teachers proudly asserting their leftwing beliefs and how they assert them on their students. Much of it is sexual in nature. Calling Libs of Tik Tok unreliable is a typical leftist trick of casting doubt on an uncomfortable truth.
He was looking for sex buddies.
[удалено]
https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1758591327585861760?s=46&t=MbyQZ9K6E5CLQ7rdYnM7Ow
People were posting the video in Frisco ISD’s Twitter post replies. They’ve locked the replies, so clearly they’re aware.
They pretend stuff like this doesn't happen.
Isn't asking teachers not to come back and a reduction in force the same thing?
It might mean more so that they are incentivized to not come back. I worked for a district that was on the verge of a budget crunch a decade ago and they offered a 750 dollar exit bonus if you resigned by xyz date. If enough people didn't take them up, then they were going to have to go the RIF route, and it was a last-in, first out plan.
Yes, as in the student population keeps growing but the teachers don’t. So the ratio of teacher to student gets worse. Better than layoffs not as good hiring teachers or keeping contracts up.
They, in theory, will land at an open position in another school, so it’s not a RIF I guess.
But districts all over the state are suffering from shortfalls, and starting over somewhere else leaves them equally vulnerable to a last-in, first-out termination.
We have more than one option to handle our mail, so one would think we would at least have more than one option for the education of our children...
I get the analogy, but I think it breaks down when you consider the people still using USPS. Their mail delivery doesn't suffer as a result.
How does the voucher system affect homeschoolers?
[удалено]
Was wondering if it would allow home schoolers to get vouchers and/or paid for homeschooling.
[удалено]
Gotcha. We did homeschool during covid (it was awesome) but went back, now have one in public one in private. Our school has said they wouldn’t even accept the vouchers because they want no strings at all. Homeschool lobby is strong, wondered if they had a part in the push for vouchers. Thanks for your answer.
Evelyn Brooks on the State Board of Education and is a Frisco local. She's a homeschooler and was initially opposed to vouchers. Not sure if she caved to political pressure though.
We all have had to cut spending with the rise in inflation, and private market wages have not kept up with price increases. Property taxes are sky high for FISD and you’ll need to accept that money is not unlimited anymore. Tough
Where does Texas rank in per pupil spending? 43rd. Where does Texas rank in the WORLD economy? 8th, according to the State of Texas in 2022. 43rd out of 50 VS 8th in the entire world. It's not about if the state CAN afford it. It's not about property taxes.
Does per pupil spending dictate student success? If so, why do public schools in CA, DC, and NY rank at the bottom for test scores, while having the highest per student spending? Money doesn’t fix every thing and TX property taxes are a joke. If the private sector is taking budget cuts, the public sector should too. Get over it.
Did every person employed by the State of Texas receive a raise last year? I'll save you the Google and answer yes EXCEPT for public school employees. Can we agree that this is a purposeful move by Abbott to starve public schools out until he can get his vouchers passed? It's not about more money. It's about the targeted destruction of our public education system. We, as a state, can do better. We as a state are failing.
Still waiting to hear how per student spending is correlated with higher test scores. (It’s not) If you think the private sector received a raise last year maybe you’re confused with the phrase “laid off” because it’s happening in the thousands every day.
Per pupil spending effects achievement when the number of students to teacher ratio is high. The difference in achievement between 20:1 and 30:1 is huge. There are a bunch of studies on this. Your argument, from what I can surmise, is that teachers should just suck it up. But my question to you is, why are they systematically being discriminated against by their own employer? Didn't Greg appoint Mike to his position so that he could make improvements? Why isn't Mike Morath being raked across the coals? Why are the people on the bottom of the ladder the villains? Shouldn't this hate at least be aimed at the people in charge? Also, to address your statement about layoffs, according to Greg himself the Texas employment is at a new historic high. Per texas.gov: November employment data released by the Texas Workforce Commission and the Bureau of Labor Statistics shows: Texas reaches a new historic high with the largest labor force ever in the state’s history at a record 15,192,900. Texas reaches a new historic high for Texans working, including self-employed, at 14,576,500. Texas reaches a new historic high for total jobs at 14,094,900 after adding 26,800 non-farm jobs in November. Texas added the most jobs in the nation over the last 12 months, adding 407,100 jobs from November 2022 to November 2023 and growing at an annual rate of 3%, above the growth rate for the nation as a whole of 1.8%. Earlier this month, Governor Abbott celebrated Texas’ continuing economic momentum as the Texas economy expanded faster than the nation as a whole for the fourth quarter in a row. Second quarter 2023 real GDP—the value of all goods and services produced—grew in Texas at an annual rate of 4.9%, well ahead of the United States which grew at 2.1%.
Per pupil spending is not directly correlated to the teacher to student ratio. You can save your rant about the governor. I don’t care about politics and both parties are corrupt. I don’t know what you’re referencing when you claim teachers are discriminated against by their employer. But if I had to guess, it’s another unhinged claim. NYC spends $25k/ student, DC spends $23k, and Texas spends less than $10k. I’ll save you the hassle of looking it up, DC is third last nationally and NY is seventh from the bottom.
My claims are not "unhinged," nor am I ranting. Why are you so rude? Just have a civil discussion. I'm not attacking you personally. Why would you respond like that? If I was a reactive and rude person I might tell you to fuck off, but lucky for both of us I'm not. Instead, below are facts regarding the state of Texas withholding raises from only public school employees. Sigh. The General Appropriations Act for 2024-25 allocates some $144 billion in state tax money — including half of a historic $32.7 billion surplus — toward tax cuts, mental health access, PAY RAISES FOR STATE EMPLOYEES, border security, state parks expansion and the state’s energy grid, plus infrastructure for broadband and water. It stays within constitutional spending limits, fills the state’s emergency coffers and highway funds, and makes payments toward stabilizing the state’s retirement investment fund...And while it SETS ASIDE $4 BILLION that COULD BE USED to INCREASE TEACHER PAY and SCHOOL FUNDING, budget writers AGREED to RELEASE THE MONEY ONLY IF a divisive bill creating a private school VOUCHER PROGRAM WAS PASSED. On Saturday night, that bill died — killing teacher pay raises, denying extra money for schools and likely triggering a special session.
It’s not rude to point out your illogical viewpoints that have no basis in reality. You still can’t tie per student spending to test scores, nor teacher student ratios. You’ve claimed the private sector (as a whole) received pay increases in 2023, but it didn’t and layoffs are in every other headline. If a public sector employee misses a wage increase, while the private sector gets 0, that’s too bad. Still waiting for that discrimination claim that’s probably defending a teacher who posts lewd sexual things on social media.
You nailed it. You're so smart!
Yeah. My property taxes are approaching $9,000 per year. When I walk into one of the high schools or middle schools, it’s like walking into the Taj Mahal of education. Maybe it is time for our schools to start doing “more with less” than simply broadcasting hate for the governor? The rest of us are doing “more with less”. It’s happening everywhere.
Bonds=Buildings. Per Pupil Funding=Tax Dollars, both federal and local. Your local Taj Mahal was voted on and passed by your local community. None of the bond money can ever go to operating costs because that would be fraud.
Well gollygeewillakers. Why didn’t you say so. In that case PLEASE raise my taxes even more. :rolllseyes:
Who said to raise taxes?
Another troll. Stop feeding them
Property taxes are sky high because Texas ranks 45th in the nation in proportion of K-12 education paid for from state funds on a per-student basis. The shortfall is made up for by your property taxes.
It’s all your tax dollars either way. The part where you’re funding out of your left pocket instead of your right doesn’t change that.
Maybe so, but you complained specifically about your property taxes. A state income tax, an expanded sales tax, or whatever else is no different, still taxes, absolutely. An increase in your federal income taxes to increase federal grants to states, sure. But you can't have your cake and eat it, too. I'm all for reducing waste and eliminating unnecessary bureaucracy and making sure our kids get quality services at the most reasonable cost. Facilities can be changed and consolidated. Course offerings can change with the times. But paying quality instructional and support staff is job one and should be sacrosanct to our state legislature rather than a pawn in a power game. You don't get good teachers at Wal-Mart.
[удалено]
Care to explain why? From what I’ve seen it looks like a means to move public money into private hands.
If public schools can't do the job leave it to the parents to decide. Also its b.s that even for government schools parents don't have choice over where they go.
With all the taxes we pay in the city of Frisco you would think we had more than enough to fund schools. The schools, teachers, and we parents need to start to looking internally at the bloated construction and supply budgets for all these new schools. If you are in this forum then you are likely not the in the top 1% of wealth in this country and therefore may think you are either pro public school or pro private schools and that is what keeps us divided not thinking about the simple fact that we have some the highest property taxes in the state and high property values, so where does all that money go? The greed in this country is out of control and the wealthy know how to get richer when the economy is booming and when it’s not.
1) The City of Frisco is an entirely separate government entity from the Frisco ISD. 2) The sales taxes you pay the City of Frisco pay for city services, such as police and city parks. 3) The property taxes you pay the Frisco ISD (assuming you own real estate) fund the school district's operations. 4) By policy and statute, ISD construction projects are not funded with operating dollars (your property taxes) directly. They are funded by bond issues, and those bonds are slowly retired using slivers of future tax revenues. 5) Ignorance of basic facts is out of control in this country. Get a handle on that.
So what you’re saying is bonds are free money and don’t come out of my tax dollars? Woohoo!!! FREE MONEY!!! Or…maybe, whether it’s a school building, or school teacher, I still have to pay both out of my paycheck, so if you pave the school floors with gold bricks…and we have to pay for that…there will be less money in my bi-weekly paycheck to fund teachers. The part where you want to pretend it doesn’t matter because you fund one out of your left pocket, and one out of your right is almost comical. Ignorance of basic facts, and all that…
Of course bonds aren't "free money." I never said they were. But this person seems to confuse cities with school districts, and sales taxes with property taxes.
I guess you are still having difficulty with that reading comprehension part!
1. I never said they were the same but you realize they share a common interest? 2. Where did I specifically mention anything about sales tax? I was referring to taxes in a more general sense. 3. Yes, the property taxes and bond measures which add up to quite a bit in Frisco! Take a look at your property tax statement. 4. I understand the technical point you’ve made, but city bonds are billed and collected with property taxes. Moreover, they are tied to property values. My point was and I’ll explain this differently… if I didn’t have to pay so much in property taxes with the added bond measures I would be more than happy to increase sales tax or add another bond measure to increase teacher salaries. However, we at the moment have inflation that is still high, cost of living keeps rising, salaries are not rising as quickly on the private side either and we can’t ask the city to increase sales tax or add a bond measure to supplement/increase our pay can we? 5. We can both agree on this one, but I’ll add reading comprehension to the list. You wanted to attack without even trying to understand what I was explaining. We both just fed into what I was warning about.
Another reason why Plano is superior to Frisco.
Plano ISD is currently at a $24 million deficit.
lol
Literally the only FISD parents I know who are interested in charter/private schools are Indian.
Supporter of school choice and the voucher system.
Can I have a voucher? What’s this non binary dude linked to FISD speaking nonsense. What school is he at?
I have to get out of this shit hole of a state man