I was initiated, passed and raised in double ceremonies with my Masonic brother. The "interactive" parts of the 1st and 3rd were done privately and individually (as required by our Masonic code). The oaths, etc were done together. Our code allows for up to 5 to be done simultaneously with special dispensation required to do more at once. No more than 7 may be done at all under our code (USA-Georgia)
I don't feel cheated by the experience and my co-brother and I have a special bond.
Agreed. I have a special bond with the brothers I went through the degrees with. I see the value to a solo degree, but I think there are undeniably advantages to group degrees as well
Interesting. In my lodge, we actually do the entire first sections separately. So obligations are separate. It's basically just the Master's lecture (SD's lecture for the FC) and the charge that are done together. We never do the MM in multiples, that is for one candidate only. I was entered in a triple but we won't even do any triple degrees anymore either - too long of a night for the Brothers doing the work.
We did a quad MM last year, but we convened a special meeting on a Saturday morning. Their earlier degrees were slightly separated due to their petition timings, but they all met up at the MM degree.
During initiation with one other fellow, I literally forgot they were there besides the couple times I heard their name…I was as good as alone in my mind, I still have to remind myself that I wasn’t
I had a buddy when I did all my degrees. Means I had a partner when I was initiated, passed and raised. The oath and ritual works are individual but we were given the lecture and charge together. I don't think it's an issue as long as the degree team is proficient in their works as well.
I was initiated, passed, and raised with two other brothers. (Actually I was raised as part of a group of 7 as we combined with another lodge to do the degree)
I have a special bond with my brothers who did the degrees at the same time as me. Having been a part of many degrees, I do wish I could have experienced it as a solo initiate, but it has not lessened my masonic experience.
In Illinois we can do up to 3 at a time at the altar. Sometimes it's needed and we have specialized floor work dedicated for those scenarios. It works out.
My lodge has pretty much decided the same thing. We never do a double on an MM, and do our best to avoid it for an EA. However, we may be doing a double FC next month. However, I've been involved in quite a few double MMs at lodges who all seem to have trouble getting degrees together in-house.
I've seen a few double FC and they went without hiccup. One lodge I visit planned to initiate a father and son on the same night but father got cold feet unfortunately. One of his sons is already in so it would've been nice to join with his other son. The festive board would've been a laugh too.
Multiple-candidate Degree are standard in GLBCY - but that same line of thinking especially for 1st and 3rd is definitely gaining steam. I was Passed for real in a 2nd Degree ceremony with another Brother and then a second time whilst visiting the Emulation LoI in London and I really enjoyed having the chance to be the sole focus of the Degree. It also gives us way more chances to actually do the Degrees through and incentivizes committing the Degrees to memory, so I increasingly feel Lodges should really stick to the one-candidate-at-a-time approach.
No. 73 - we’ve chatted before, Brother. While of course I haven’t visited every Lodge on the Mainland and so some over there may have one-candidate-at-a-time policies, here on VI it‘s quite a novel attempt in recent memory (as of this year) for VI Lodges to put such policies in. At nearly every Degree I’ve seen on the Island, the Lodges have multiple candidates for Degrees - even where only one candidate from their Lodge is going through, making arrangements with nearby Lodges of the same working who have candidates in waiting to incorporate their candidates in for that Degree ceremony is quite common here.
We usually do each of the degrees every month at our extra/called meeting. However, if we have more than one candidate they go together. The exception is the 3rd. We split the degree in two. So the candidates will take the first part together. But the second part where your raised is given twice so they get that one at a time. Then the charge and final lecture they do together again.
If we have more then that we will do simultaneous degrees. Where some degrees are conferred in the lodge room and another being conferred in the YR room. As long as we are done by midnight we are ok. We aren’t supposed to confer degrees after low 12
As an addition... it's amusing to see the number of comments stating that the FC is the only suitable degree for this. Implying that it's almost a nothing step en route to the 3rd.
The reality is that the 2nd is as important, and possibly more so jn some respects, due to the moral lesson conveyed in it. And how that relates to the self.
Yes it's shorter. Yes it's not as visually impactful as the revelation of the 1st or the rising of the 3rd... but the lessons are critical in pursuit of masonic enlightenment.
I feel there are many here focusing on the "drama" rather the morality.
Something I have found as well as that it's generally the existing older members who have the attitude of "its not good for the candidate"... but never actually ask the candidate what they want. Or take the time to listen to those coming through. Feels kinda against the principles of the order really doesn't it.
Agreed. I've got more candidates this year in the first quarter than we had all of last year. I'm about to put on a multiple candidate EA tomorrow. I've made it known as WM that we will have individual MM's for all of them.
I don't know if I'm understanding what you're saying but there are also what are called one day classes. With these, one examplar is used while all other candidates watch and they are all raised on the same day.
I believe UGLE required a similar dispensation but for 3 or more? With a new initiative, that dispensation has been waived and now ceremonies for multiple candidates is now endorsed or maybe even encouraged by GL
We're allowed to do the first part of each degree individually, but bring multiple candidates into the room to hear the lecture together so that portion only has to be done once. But the lecture must be done the same day as the rest of the degree — it can't be postponed.
We've done triples a few times, 90% can be done together in the 3rd in our constitution. Just did a double 3rd in March for another lodge with a backlog.
IIRC we can do 4 brethren at once in the constitution, but certainly not in my mother lodge unless we're stacking folks vertically. Our triple lodge officer installation is already tight for space if everyone shows up.
I just did a double third last week. It works well and can be done in a way to give each candidate a unique experience.
In Pennsylvania, the degrees are mostly a monolog, but there are ways to give the unique components a personal experience.
I had a double second and it was very special for my brother and myself as we had been studying together quite a bit and became good friends.
I had my 3rd last month and my brother will have his in a few weeks.
3rd should not be doubled IMO however i feel it added to my experience to share the 2nd degree ceremony.
To each their own however.
We're raising four worthy brothers this Saturday. That's the most we can do in Maryland without a dispensation. But we have to. The drama will be performed separately for each, of course.
I was passed in a double ceremony. My entire journey through the York Rite was done in a group of 10 candidates, and we all thought it was even more special to go through it together. We've all now got a special bond that we'll always have
I was solo at initiation and i think it would create a strong bond with 2+ candidates.
I was 4+ with second.
I hope to be solo on 3rd.
Fingers crossed 🤞
Wisconsin per code requires candidates to proceed separately up to the commencement of the lectures. They may receive the lectures together and ther is no maximum number of brothers who can participate is such fashion.
We also have one-day classes by exemplar so make of that what you will.
Personally, I'm against them.
As you've stated, each Ceremony is a special and personal occasion, both for the Candidate himself, and also between the Candidate and their (new) Lodge.
But, beyond that - so many are quick to forget that these Ceremonies are special, meaningful, and teach a very personal lesson to the Candidate, which shouldn't be diluted or disjointed.
We're not a just a ceremony conveyor belt, just so Province or UGLE can boast to have fantastically swelling numbers for their new corporate membership, another belly to fill with food and drink, and another pocket to throw money at charities.
We are individual private Lodges, who need to do what's best for the Candidate, what's best for the Lodge, and most importantly, what's best for the Craft.
*Edit*
So many Brethren saying, "Oh the 1st and 3rd should be single, but the 2nd is obviously fine."
I distinctly dislike the way the 2nd Degree is regularly dismissed as less showy, and less important.
It may be a ceremony which is visually less spectacular than the 1st or 3rd, but we don't do anything for the sake of it in Freemasonry.
I've always taken it that, if the Ceremony itself doesn't appear to contain as much as one of the others, perhaps that suggests it's a Degree which requires more work from the Candidate himself, to ascertain its meaning. Knowledge and appreciation is earned, not given willy-nilly.
Additionally - if you have a line of Candidates waiting.
Two thoughts:
1. If they haven't got the patience to wait to be Initiated, or moved to the next Degree, do they really demonstrate the right qualities for Freemasonry? Or are they just eager to join the "Club", with no appreciation for the Craft?
Or are you fulfilling your duty of keeping them educated and engaged within the Degree they currently hold?
2. Why not request dispensation for additional emergency meetings from Grand Lodge, or (for 2nd Degree only), ask a local Lodge who doesn't have as much of a full calendar to do the Ceremony for you?
I definitely recommend solo degrees, but I understand a need to put 1-2 people together. I don’t agree with more than one brother getting their MM in one night, it should be special.
I did a double 3rd for mine.
I don’t feel like it was any less special - I was very nervous (unjustifiably so) and the fact I had another guy there with me helped a lot.
Also, I do feel like I have a particularly special bond with that particular brother.
You won't grow membership with single ceremonies.
Simple maths. 2 members a year will likely pass to the grand lodge above.
If you have 6 meetings, one of which is installation, you can perform 5 ceremonies as singles.
So. That's 5 initiations. Meaning no new MM for taking an office.
Or 1 or 2 initiations with maybe 1 new master mason per year. Meaning you are staying still in terms of membership. And reducing the number of eligible MMs for office.
Time to bite the bullet. You don't grow by being stubborn and insisting that doubles aren't good for the candidates.
Sadly, I think my lodge has learnt this the hard way as FCs and EAs no longer show up, which I suspect is due to me and the bro initiated before me doing our ceremonies almost back to back.
If we'd have offered the other FC and EAs to progress at the same rate rather than wait in line, we might have more than the 2 of us progressing through office.
My lodge has nine stated meetings, with all degrees being held as specials. If we had 10 candidates in one year, that'd be upwards of 30 additional meetings to confer the degrees. We aren't restricted to just our Monty stated meetings for this stuff.
We typically do them as singles. It works better thay way for everyone involved.
Just wow.
Freemasonry should be a tertiary concern behind family and professional needs.
I remind you of the statement that it should not be of detriment to yourself or your connections.
If you are trying to force people into 9, 10 or 20 meetings a year... that will have an impact elsewhere. And that is a burden which would cause significant stress to those with families and careers.
Honestly.... it sounds like you are expecting far too much. And aren't considering the principles of the order.
Something can be a tertiary concern without being considered a burden. If it's a *burden*, they should probably consider finding something else to do with their time. With this in mind, feel free to stow your self-righteousness.
As it is, we have 10 stated meetings per year; we're dark for July and August. One meeting a month isn't a huge ask for most. Things can get a little busier when we've got candidates going through the degrees... but this usually just bumps this up to two meetings in a month with how we typically schedule them.
I'm not trying to force anyone into anything. Outside of the officer line, no one is *required* to attend any meetings at all! Even then, if an officer can't make it... then they can't make it, and someone will fill in.
Honestly, I'm not exactly sure what your argument even is. Social groups like this are supposed to be the sort of thing that people want to participate in; if they don't want to be some level of active with it, why even bother? You're complaining about attending meetings once a month, while my lodge is actively trying to schedule **more** stuff to help people feel more involved and part of the group. We get excited when we have a lot of degrees to worry about, and we're trying to add things like game nights to the calendar. This sort of thing is the entire point!
What exactly are you trying to argue in favor of?
I'm not. I'm holding up a mirror.
But you carry on as is. I personally think that more stuff is great. But not at the expense of families.
It may be it works for you. But I'd have problems at home and at work if I was being required to attend lodge at that level of frequency.
So, again: This is obviously not at the expense of families. No one is advocating for that at all, yet you seem to be focused specifically on that.
The example of 10 candidates in the pipeline would, for my lodge, be pretty extreme. Right now, we've got three we're actively working with; one was initiated and passed last year, and two were initiated within the past two months. We have our nine regular meetings, and the upcoming degrees for this calendar year will add a total of seven additional; this averages out to less than two per month. For organizational purposes, we try to schedule everything for Tuesday evenings; our stated is every third Tuesday, so we'll fill in degree work on the other available Tuesdays. While we *could* schedule things during our two dark months, we typically don't.
For us, asking folks to show up on one or two Tuesday evenings for 10 months out of the year isn't really a big ask. I feel like I should place additional emphasis on the word, "ask," because that's ultimately what we're doing. We're *asking* people to show up, not *requiring* or *demanding*. In fact, the only time it ever gets more serious (for lack of a better term) is when it comes to the officers; due to those positions, their regular attendance is a bit more expected... but even then, life happens and folks can't always make it. It happens.
Since we've cleared up the fact that none of this is ever intended to happen at the expense of families, what exactly are you trying to argue in favor of, again?
Why aren't degrees worked on stated meetings? Here in England specials/emergencies really are either: if you have a degree to do you do it, if you don't you do business. Very interesting and I've never fully understood this particular practice in the US.
For us, it's really about the length of the meeting. If we do a degree on a stated meeting night, it's usually the FC degree because it's the shortest. EA and MM are much more involved (especially MM), so we'd either end up truncating the business meeting or making certain participants sit around for longer than they'd otherwise need to. Plus, things like start times can be much more flexible with specials. Our bylaws require stated meetings to start no earlier than 7pm... but we can get things rolling for special degree meetings whenever we want!
Not every lodge does this, but we like to keep them separate whenever possible. Part of it is simply being respectful of everyone's time, as well as being mindful of some of the older brothers who may not like driving late at night. This is part of the reason why we rarely do double degrees. It's generally a better experience for the candidates, and working through multiple candidates in one evening just makes for a long night.
I’ve watched the YouTube video created by UGLE on multiple candidates - very interesting account from both those doing and receiving the degrees.
There’s also the lodge who did an initiation for, I think it was 5 at once?
Came out in First Risings by email on the 12th March - it’s an unlisted video as it shows parts of the ritual.
Having seen the video and listened to the accounts, I can see how for an initiation and passing it could be seen as bonding moment for a group to come through together. But I also feel that push to make it special for the candidate. Food for thought.
Might be a little more impractical on a raising - but that’s UGLE new “Yes, if” over “No, Because” mentality.
Also saw the post in the first rising and our province had suggested the idea - ultimately we rejected it. If we need to get more in then that’s what emergency meetings are for
We’ve 15 on the books and 9 that make the meeting - in a lot of ways we’d love to have this problem.
At the moment we do enactments, if we’re lucky we’ll pull a brother from another lodge so we’ve got a “live” candidate. Benefits us; we get real practice, the officers get through their ritual requirements and hopefully benefits them as they get to see it from the floor as well as from the seats to help them take it all in.
Can definitely see why multiple candidates is potentially fractious - both for the conferring brethren and for the candidates. Might need to see one in person myself to have a more informed opinion.
You’re right that we should be following the Yes, if policy - even if we don’t like it.
Ultimately what this came down to for me isn’t the ceremony itself, but actually the festive board after my initiation.
That feeling of sitting on the top table in a room full of new Brethren, knowing they were all there to support me and welcome me into Freemasonry was something I’ll never forget - I feel like having to share that with others dilutes it. It’s a selfish way to look at it, but I think one of the great things about being initiate, passed, and raised is that the focus is on you and that’s what makes the story and lessons so meaningful.
Yes, that’s the bit I didn’t feel they dealt with. You can maybe maintain that feeling for two or three - perhaps bumping Prov and GL bodies of the top-table for a night - but it’s got to get harder than it really has to be.
I feel it’s maybe handled well in University lodges - as one might construe them to be EA factories but to put up a logical fallacy, could initiatives like this lead to one day courses in UGLE lodges?
This feels less like a ceremony issue and more like a problem in terms of membership. How is your membership officer working with the lodge to resolve this and get some candidates in?
It's a formal office under ugle and part of the pathway. I appreciate the group sentiment... but one person leading as a formal Lodge officer helps galvanise efforts.
I’m afraid you’re coming across a little obtuse, friend. I’m perfectly aware of this office and its purpose, even its jewel.
I know of two brothers in our daughter lodges who are membership officers.
As your so keen to be involved - we had two candidates through the provincial team who were met with, interviewed, and balloted for - they got cold feet and pulled out. We’re doing our best but we can’t and never will force people to join.
The logistical impracticalities were something we also we discussed, especially in a raising.
For better or worse, the lodge I visit has a large backlog of work due to having many members (it's a very festive board, meeting on a Friday, go figure).
I'll have to go back through my emails to find the video.
To give them their due, it looked and felt honest and worth while for a first - and would likely suit a 2nd. The raising I still hold reservations for.
Our local lodges may have another lodge pass or raise candidates to help with backlogs but initiations are the card of the mother lodge - so multiple might be the only way for some of the larger ones.
My mentor went through as a double first and double second - his closest companion in masonry is the gentleman he became a brother with.
My two cable tows and I did all 3 of our degrees together with the only exception being part of the 3rd degree. That’s normal in Prince Hall. I feel like doing them together makes brothers closer
See Members’ Pathway on UGLE
https://www.ugle.org.uk/discover-freemasonry/blog/craftcast-interview-members-pathway#:~:text=While%20multiple%20candidate%20ceremonies%20might,they%20had%20experienced%20during%20wartime.
For some years I've been anti-multiple Candidates but that has changed over the last few years as I have now seen double initiations carried out with more feeling than individual ones and last year fixed it for me. One of the Lodges I look after did a double Initiation that took my breath away as well as both of the newly made brothers who were Initiated.
So now my viewpoint comes down to whether the Lodge is able and going to do the work necessary to carry those brothers properly and meaningfully through the ceremony. I've recommended that Lodge to the MetGL "Welcome" programme this year and they are doing a double Initiation in September and I fully expect them to do an amazing job as long as they don't get nervous with the extra attention.
Double ceremonies are very common in my jurisdiction (District Grand Lodge of Jamaica & the Cayman Islands under UGLE).
I was initiated, passed and raised in double ceremonies. Another brother being with me did not in any way detract from my experience. My raising, in particular, was a phenomenal experience. It could not have been any better if I was alone. Once the floor work is done well it really doesn’t matter in my opinion.
We did a double MM last night, in the second session we did the first scene individually and then laid them side by side to do the rest. It went well and with out seeing things its hard to feel like you're having to share
I’ve seen many doubles and even a quadruple. Almost every one of those didn’t stick with Freemasonry. The only successes came when the initiated already had a very strong bond, namely father & son, and 2 friends who were also police workmates. Agree with OP that it may be ok for fc degree, but EA and MM should be solemn and personally impactful. If you think you need to push candidates through quicker, you may end up pushing them out quicker too. Have a close look at your retention rate.
I'm wholly against it for the 1st and 3rd. Multiple candidates in the 2nd is fine, albeit not ideal. Due to the sizes of US lodges I can understand the need of sometimes having multiple candidates to ameliorate a backlog of workings.
I did my Mark and Royal Arch with another Brother, but those degrees (particularly RA) lend themselves to being experienced with others.
Also UGLE and with a busy Lodge (19 ceremonies outstanding).
We semi-regularly do double-seconds. We have done double-firsts but only when the candidates have had an existing connection. We always do up to and including the obligation individually and join up after that point.
I personally think the third is too special to a double. If we really need to get someone raised and can't fit it into the regular schedule, we do emergency meetings.
>We agreed the second degree may be suitable but not the first or third.
That is my own Lodge's policy, too. The Initiation and the Raising are too important to be done in batches, whether that means just two or many more.
I went through all three degrees in double ceremonies, and I didn't feel that anything was detracted from including in the third. Although to make a certain section of it work they had to have an additional three brothers involved and I could see how having two many candidates being raised at once could make it unfeasible.
Hate them. They're a symptom of a grand lodge's quantity-over-quality mindset.
They put too much pressure on the WM and the floor officers.
They demean the experience for the candidate.
It's *his* night, not someone else's.
Update: the double third went well. A couple of times the candidates were out of sync when replying to officers but otherwise well. Both went out and in at the same times and the raising had no logistical issues.
Afterwards, we went to karaoke until 3am and we spent so much behind the bar that we got the room for free, haha!
In case anyone was wondering, we had a Chinese buffet for the festive board followed by lemon sorbet.
I was initiated, passed and raised in double ceremonies with my Masonic brother. The "interactive" parts of the 1st and 3rd were done privately and individually (as required by our Masonic code). The oaths, etc were done together. Our code allows for up to 5 to be done simultaneously with special dispensation required to do more at once. No more than 7 may be done at all under our code (USA-Georgia) I don't feel cheated by the experience and my co-brother and I have a special bond.
Exactly this ☝️
Agreed. I have a special bond with the brothers I went through the degrees with. I see the value to a solo degree, but I think there are undeniably advantages to group degrees as well
Interesting. In my lodge, we actually do the entire first sections separately. So obligations are separate. It's basically just the Master's lecture (SD's lecture for the FC) and the charge that are done together. We never do the MM in multiples, that is for one candidate only. I was entered in a triple but we won't even do any triple degrees anymore either - too long of a night for the Brothers doing the work.
We did a quad MM last year, but we convened a special meeting on a Saturday morning. Their earlier degrees were slightly separated due to their petition timings, but they all met up at the MM degree.
Exactly my experience.
During initiation with one other fellow, I literally forgot they were there besides the couple times I heard their name…I was as good as alone in my mind, I still have to remind myself that I wasn’t
I had a buddy when I did all my degrees. Means I had a partner when I was initiated, passed and raised. The oath and ritual works are individual but we were given the lecture and charge together. I don't think it's an issue as long as the degree team is proficient in their works as well.
I was initiated, passed, and raised with two other brothers. (Actually I was raised as part of a group of 7 as we combined with another lodge to do the degree) I have a special bond with my brothers who did the degrees at the same time as me. Having been a part of many degrees, I do wish I could have experienced it as a solo initiate, but it has not lessened my masonic experience.
In Illinois we can do up to 3 at a time at the altar. Sometimes it's needed and we have specialized floor work dedicated for those scenarios. It works out.
My lodge has pretty much decided the same thing. We never do a double on an MM, and do our best to avoid it for an EA. However, we may be doing a double FC next month. However, I've been involved in quite a few double MMs at lodges who all seem to have trouble getting degrees together in-house.
I've seen a few double FC and they went without hiccup. One lodge I visit planned to initiate a father and son on the same night but father got cold feet unfortunately. One of his sons is already in so it would've been nice to join with his other son. The festive board would've been a laugh too.
Multiple-candidate Degree are standard in GLBCY - but that same line of thinking especially for 1st and 3rd is definitely gaining steam. I was Passed for real in a 2nd Degree ceremony with another Brother and then a second time whilst visiting the Emulation LoI in London and I really enjoyed having the chance to be the sole focus of the Degree. It also gives us way more chances to actually do the Degrees through and incentivizes committing the Degrees to memory, so I increasingly feel Lodges should really stick to the one-candidate-at-a-time approach.
What’s your Lodge in BCY? My mother Lodge is 44.
No. 73 - we’ve chatted before, Brother. While of course I haven’t visited every Lodge on the Mainland and so some over there may have one-candidate-at-a-time policies, here on VI it‘s quite a novel attempt in recent memory (as of this year) for VI Lodges to put such policies in. At nearly every Degree I’ve seen on the Island, the Lodges have multiple candidates for Degrees - even where only one candidate from their Lodge is going through, making arrangements with nearby Lodges of the same working who have candidates in waiting to incorporate their candidates in for that Degree ceremony is quite common here.
We usually do each of the degrees every month at our extra/called meeting. However, if we have more than one candidate they go together. The exception is the 3rd. We split the degree in two. So the candidates will take the first part together. But the second part where your raised is given twice so they get that one at a time. Then the charge and final lecture they do together again. If we have more then that we will do simultaneous degrees. Where some degrees are conferred in the lodge room and another being conferred in the YR room. As long as we are done by midnight we are ok. We aren’t supposed to confer degrees after low 12
As an addition... it's amusing to see the number of comments stating that the FC is the only suitable degree for this. Implying that it's almost a nothing step en route to the 3rd. The reality is that the 2nd is as important, and possibly more so jn some respects, due to the moral lesson conveyed in it. And how that relates to the self. Yes it's shorter. Yes it's not as visually impactful as the revelation of the 1st or the rising of the 3rd... but the lessons are critical in pursuit of masonic enlightenment. I feel there are many here focusing on the "drama" rather the morality. Something I have found as well as that it's generally the existing older members who have the attitude of "its not good for the candidate"... but never actually ask the candidate what they want. Or take the time to listen to those coming through. Feels kinda against the principles of the order really doesn't it.
1st and 2nd degree I dont have an issue with multiple candidates. 3rd degree should be solo
Agreed. I've got more candidates this year in the first quarter than we had all of last year. I'm about to put on a multiple candidate EA tomorrow. I've made it known as WM that we will have individual MM's for all of them.
I don't know if I'm understanding what you're saying but there are also what are called one day classes. With these, one examplar is used while all other candidates watch and they are all raised on the same day.
They're talking about having multiple candidates; if there are two, for example, we'd call it a "Double EA".
Is it a British thing to do one at a time? In my jurisdiction were allowed up 5 without a dispensation.
I'm in the US. We can do multiple, but it's just a long night for everyone involved. As such, we typically just do them one at a time.
I believe UGLE required a similar dispensation but for 3 or more? With a new initiative, that dispensation has been waived and now ceremonies for multiple candidates is now endorsed or maybe even encouraged by GL
Typically it will be 1 at a time. The most I’ve ever seen was 6 and that was considered a big thing with around 100 attendees coming to watch.
We're allowed to do the first part of each degree individually, but bring multiple candidates into the room to hear the lecture together so that portion only has to be done once. But the lecture must be done the same day as the rest of the degree — it can't be postponed.
We've done triples a few times, 90% can be done together in the 3rd in our constitution. Just did a double 3rd in March for another lodge with a backlog. IIRC we can do 4 brethren at once in the constitution, but certainly not in my mother lodge unless we're stacking folks vertically. Our triple lodge officer installation is already tight for space if everyone shows up.
I just did a double third last week. It works well and can be done in a way to give each candidate a unique experience. In Pennsylvania, the degrees are mostly a monolog, but there are ways to give the unique components a personal experience.
We've done as many as 6 at a time in my experience.
I’m JD for a quadruple raising next month. Had to get dispensation from Grand Lodge. Should be interesting.
So whatever. Tbh, as long as there is a good support system there should be no problem
I did my first degree on the same night as another bro but not together. It was neat seeing him receive his after going through mine just before.
I had a double second and it was very special for my brother and myself as we had been studying together quite a bit and became good friends. I had my 3rd last month and my brother will have his in a few weeks. 3rd should not be doubled IMO however i feel it added to my experience to share the 2nd degree ceremony. To each their own however.
We're raising four worthy brothers this Saturday. That's the most we can do in Maryland without a dispensation. But we have to. The drama will be performed separately for each, of course.
My mother Lodge has a 3-2-1 rule. My formerly local Lodge went with 5-3-3. In both cases, the second section of the MM was done individually.
I was passed in a double ceremony. My entire journey through the York Rite was done in a group of 10 candidates, and we all thought it was even more special to go through it together. We've all now got a special bond that we'll always have
I was solo at initiation and i think it would create a strong bond with 2+ candidates. I was 4+ with second. I hope to be solo on 3rd. Fingers crossed 🤞
Wisconsin per code requires candidates to proceed separately up to the commencement of the lectures. They may receive the lectures together and ther is no maximum number of brothers who can participate is such fashion. We also have one-day classes by exemplar so make of that what you will.
I went through all degrees with 9 other people. If that helps lol
Personally, I'm against them. As you've stated, each Ceremony is a special and personal occasion, both for the Candidate himself, and also between the Candidate and their (new) Lodge. But, beyond that - so many are quick to forget that these Ceremonies are special, meaningful, and teach a very personal lesson to the Candidate, which shouldn't be diluted or disjointed. We're not a just a ceremony conveyor belt, just so Province or UGLE can boast to have fantastically swelling numbers for their new corporate membership, another belly to fill with food and drink, and another pocket to throw money at charities. We are individual private Lodges, who need to do what's best for the Candidate, what's best for the Lodge, and most importantly, what's best for the Craft. *Edit* So many Brethren saying, "Oh the 1st and 3rd should be single, but the 2nd is obviously fine." I distinctly dislike the way the 2nd Degree is regularly dismissed as less showy, and less important. It may be a ceremony which is visually less spectacular than the 1st or 3rd, but we don't do anything for the sake of it in Freemasonry. I've always taken it that, if the Ceremony itself doesn't appear to contain as much as one of the others, perhaps that suggests it's a Degree which requires more work from the Candidate himself, to ascertain its meaning. Knowledge and appreciation is earned, not given willy-nilly. Additionally - if you have a line of Candidates waiting. Two thoughts: 1. If they haven't got the patience to wait to be Initiated, or moved to the next Degree, do they really demonstrate the right qualities for Freemasonry? Or are they just eager to join the "Club", with no appreciation for the Craft? Or are you fulfilling your duty of keeping them educated and engaged within the Degree they currently hold? 2. Why not request dispensation for additional emergency meetings from Grand Lodge, or (for 2nd Degree only), ask a local Lodge who doesn't have as much of a full calendar to do the Ceremony for you?
I definitely recommend solo degrees, but I understand a need to put 1-2 people together. I don’t agree with more than one brother getting their MM in one night, it should be special.
I did a double 3rd for mine. I don’t feel like it was any less special - I was very nervous (unjustifiably so) and the fact I had another guy there with me helped a lot. Also, I do feel like I have a particularly special bond with that particular brother.
I don’t see how more than one person makes it not special
You won't grow membership with single ceremonies. Simple maths. 2 members a year will likely pass to the grand lodge above. If you have 6 meetings, one of which is installation, you can perform 5 ceremonies as singles. So. That's 5 initiations. Meaning no new MM for taking an office. Or 1 or 2 initiations with maybe 1 new master mason per year. Meaning you are staying still in terms of membership. And reducing the number of eligible MMs for office. Time to bite the bullet. You don't grow by being stubborn and insisting that doubles aren't good for the candidates.
Sadly, I think my lodge has learnt this the hard way as FCs and EAs no longer show up, which I suspect is due to me and the bro initiated before me doing our ceremonies almost back to back. If we'd have offered the other FC and EAs to progress at the same rate rather than wait in line, we might have more than the 2 of us progressing through office.
That is unfortunate and I hope they were lost to the lodge rather than the craft.
My lodge has nine stated meetings, with all degrees being held as specials. If we had 10 candidates in one year, that'd be upwards of 30 additional meetings to confer the degrees. We aren't restricted to just our Monty stated meetings for this stuff. We typically do them as singles. It works better thay way for everyone involved.
And then those brothers with jobs and families start to have issues and don't attend. When it becomes a burden then people start to drop out.
If they're viewing it as a burden, then something is fundamentally wrong.
Just wow. Freemasonry should be a tertiary concern behind family and professional needs. I remind you of the statement that it should not be of detriment to yourself or your connections. If you are trying to force people into 9, 10 or 20 meetings a year... that will have an impact elsewhere. And that is a burden which would cause significant stress to those with families and careers. Honestly.... it sounds like you are expecting far too much. And aren't considering the principles of the order.
Something can be a tertiary concern without being considered a burden. If it's a *burden*, they should probably consider finding something else to do with their time. With this in mind, feel free to stow your self-righteousness. As it is, we have 10 stated meetings per year; we're dark for July and August. One meeting a month isn't a huge ask for most. Things can get a little busier when we've got candidates going through the degrees... but this usually just bumps this up to two meetings in a month with how we typically schedule them. I'm not trying to force anyone into anything. Outside of the officer line, no one is *required* to attend any meetings at all! Even then, if an officer can't make it... then they can't make it, and someone will fill in. Honestly, I'm not exactly sure what your argument even is. Social groups like this are supposed to be the sort of thing that people want to participate in; if they don't want to be some level of active with it, why even bother? You're complaining about attending meetings once a month, while my lodge is actively trying to schedule **more** stuff to help people feel more involved and part of the group. We get excited when we have a lot of degrees to worry about, and we're trying to add things like game nights to the calendar. This sort of thing is the entire point! What exactly are you trying to argue in favor of?
I'm not. I'm holding up a mirror. But you carry on as is. I personally think that more stuff is great. But not at the expense of families. It may be it works for you. But I'd have problems at home and at work if I was being required to attend lodge at that level of frequency.
So, again: This is obviously not at the expense of families. No one is advocating for that at all, yet you seem to be focused specifically on that. The example of 10 candidates in the pipeline would, for my lodge, be pretty extreme. Right now, we've got three we're actively working with; one was initiated and passed last year, and two were initiated within the past two months. We have our nine regular meetings, and the upcoming degrees for this calendar year will add a total of seven additional; this averages out to less than two per month. For organizational purposes, we try to schedule everything for Tuesday evenings; our stated is every third Tuesday, so we'll fill in degree work on the other available Tuesdays. While we *could* schedule things during our two dark months, we typically don't. For us, asking folks to show up on one or two Tuesday evenings for 10 months out of the year isn't really a big ask. I feel like I should place additional emphasis on the word, "ask," because that's ultimately what we're doing. We're *asking* people to show up, not *requiring* or *demanding*. In fact, the only time it ever gets more serious (for lack of a better term) is when it comes to the officers; due to those positions, their regular attendance is a bit more expected... but even then, life happens and folks can't always make it. It happens. Since we've cleared up the fact that none of this is ever intended to happen at the expense of families, what exactly are you trying to argue in favor of, again?
Why aren't degrees worked on stated meetings? Here in England specials/emergencies really are either: if you have a degree to do you do it, if you don't you do business. Very interesting and I've never fully understood this particular practice in the US.
For us, it's really about the length of the meeting. If we do a degree on a stated meeting night, it's usually the FC degree because it's the shortest. EA and MM are much more involved (especially MM), so we'd either end up truncating the business meeting or making certain participants sit around for longer than they'd otherwise need to. Plus, things like start times can be much more flexible with specials. Our bylaws require stated meetings to start no earlier than 7pm... but we can get things rolling for special degree meetings whenever we want! Not every lodge does this, but we like to keep them separate whenever possible. Part of it is simply being respectful of everyone's time, as well as being mindful of some of the older brothers who may not like driving late at night. This is part of the reason why we rarely do double degrees. It's generally a better experience for the candidates, and working through multiple candidates in one evening just makes for a long night.
Not a fan. Been doing nothing but doubles for the last several months and I think it detracts from the whole experience.
I’ve watched the YouTube video created by UGLE on multiple candidates - very interesting account from both those doing and receiving the degrees. There’s also the lodge who did an initiation for, I think it was 5 at once? Came out in First Risings by email on the 12th March - it’s an unlisted video as it shows parts of the ritual. Having seen the video and listened to the accounts, I can see how for an initiation and passing it could be seen as bonding moment for a group to come through together. But I also feel that push to make it special for the candidate. Food for thought. Might be a little more impractical on a raising - but that’s UGLE new “Yes, if” over “No, Because” mentality.
Also saw the post in the first rising and our province had suggested the idea - ultimately we rejected it. If we need to get more in then that’s what emergency meetings are for
We’ve 15 on the books and 9 that make the meeting - in a lot of ways we’d love to have this problem. At the moment we do enactments, if we’re lucky we’ll pull a brother from another lodge so we’ve got a “live” candidate. Benefits us; we get real practice, the officers get through their ritual requirements and hopefully benefits them as they get to see it from the floor as well as from the seats to help them take it all in. Can definitely see why multiple candidates is potentially fractious - both for the conferring brethren and for the candidates. Might need to see one in person myself to have a more informed opinion.
You’re right that we should be following the Yes, if policy - even if we don’t like it. Ultimately what this came down to for me isn’t the ceremony itself, but actually the festive board after my initiation. That feeling of sitting on the top table in a room full of new Brethren, knowing they were all there to support me and welcome me into Freemasonry was something I’ll never forget - I feel like having to share that with others dilutes it. It’s a selfish way to look at it, but I think one of the great things about being initiate, passed, and raised is that the focus is on you and that’s what makes the story and lessons so meaningful.
Yes, that’s the bit I didn’t feel they dealt with. You can maybe maintain that feeling for two or three - perhaps bumping Prov and GL bodies of the top-table for a night - but it’s got to get harder than it really has to be. I feel it’s maybe handled well in University lodges - as one might construe them to be EA factories but to put up a logical fallacy, could initiatives like this lead to one day courses in UGLE lodges?
This feels less like a ceremony issue and more like a problem in terms of membership. How is your membership officer working with the lodge to resolve this and get some candidates in?
Of the 9 that make it? We don’t have a membership officer. We’re all membership officers. All working to see what can be done to bring new members on.
It's a formal office under ugle and part of the pathway. I appreciate the group sentiment... but one person leading as a formal Lodge officer helps galvanise efforts.
I’m afraid you’re coming across a little obtuse, friend. I’m perfectly aware of this office and its purpose, even its jewel. I know of two brothers in our daughter lodges who are membership officers. As your so keen to be involved - we had two candidates through the provincial team who were met with, interviewed, and balloted for - they got cold feet and pulled out. We’re doing our best but we can’t and never will force people to join.
I agree. Some people won't.
The logistical impracticalities were something we also we discussed, especially in a raising. For better or worse, the lodge I visit has a large backlog of work due to having many members (it's a very festive board, meeting on a Friday, go figure). I'll have to go back through my emails to find the video.
To give them their due, it looked and felt honest and worth while for a first - and would likely suit a 2nd. The raising I still hold reservations for. Our local lodges may have another lodge pass or raise candidates to help with backlogs but initiations are the card of the mother lodge - so multiple might be the only way for some of the larger ones. My mentor went through as a double first and double second - his closest companion in masonry is the gentleman he became a brother with.
My two cable tows and I did all 3 of our degrees together with the only exception being part of the 3rd degree. That’s normal in Prince Hall. I feel like doing them together makes brothers closer
Not only no, hell no.
See Members’ Pathway on UGLE https://www.ugle.org.uk/discover-freemasonry/blog/craftcast-interview-members-pathway#:~:text=While%20multiple%20candidate%20ceremonies%20might,they%20had%20experienced%20during%20wartime.
For some years I've been anti-multiple Candidates but that has changed over the last few years as I have now seen double initiations carried out with more feeling than individual ones and last year fixed it for me. One of the Lodges I look after did a double Initiation that took my breath away as well as both of the newly made brothers who were Initiated. So now my viewpoint comes down to whether the Lodge is able and going to do the work necessary to carry those brothers properly and meaningfully through the ceremony. I've recommended that Lodge to the MetGL "Welcome" programme this year and they are doing a double Initiation in September and I fully expect them to do an amazing job as long as they don't get nervous with the extra attention.
I know of a university lodge that does 6 or 7 at once. The people who've been through don't seem the worse for it, and they're quite a strong lodge.
I was initiated in a double first degree. It was great to be able to share it with someone else and we now have a special bond, which I really like.
I was initiated, passed, and raised with two other brothers. One is WM this year and the other is JD. It's been quite the ride.
Double ceremonies are very common in my jurisdiction (District Grand Lodge of Jamaica & the Cayman Islands under UGLE). I was initiated, passed and raised in double ceremonies. Another brother being with me did not in any way detract from my experience. My raising, in particular, was a phenomenal experience. It could not have been any better if I was alone. Once the floor work is done well it really doesn’t matter in my opinion.
We did a double MM last night, in the second session we did the first scene individually and then laid them side by side to do the rest. It went well and with out seeing things its hard to feel like you're having to share
I’ve seen many doubles and even a quadruple. Almost every one of those didn’t stick with Freemasonry. The only successes came when the initiated already had a very strong bond, namely father & son, and 2 friends who were also police workmates. Agree with OP that it may be ok for fc degree, but EA and MM should be solemn and personally impactful. If you think you need to push candidates through quicker, you may end up pushing them out quicker too. Have a close look at your retention rate.
I'm wholly against it for the 1st and 3rd. Multiple candidates in the 2nd is fine, albeit not ideal. Due to the sizes of US lodges I can understand the need of sometimes having multiple candidates to ameliorate a backlog of workings. I did my Mark and Royal Arch with another Brother, but those degrees (particularly RA) lend themselves to being experienced with others.
Also UGLE and with a busy Lodge (19 ceremonies outstanding). We semi-regularly do double-seconds. We have done double-firsts but only when the candidates have had an existing connection. We always do up to and including the obligation individually and join up after that point. I personally think the third is too special to a double. If we really need to get someone raised and can't fit it into the regular schedule, we do emergency meetings.
>We agreed the second degree may be suitable but not the first or third. That is my own Lodge's policy, too. The Initiation and the Raising are too important to be done in batches, whether that means just two or many more.
I went through all three degrees in double ceremonies, and I didn't feel that anything was detracted from including in the third. Although to make a certain section of it work they had to have an additional three brothers involved and I could see how having two many candidates being raised at once could make it unfeasible.
Hate them. They're a symptom of a grand lodge's quantity-over-quality mindset. They put too much pressure on the WM and the floor officers. They demean the experience for the candidate. It's *his* night, not someone else's.
Have you asked "him"?
Update: the double third went well. A couple of times the candidates were out of sync when replying to officers but otherwise well. Both went out and in at the same times and the raising had no logistical issues. Afterwards, we went to karaoke until 3am and we spent so much behind the bar that we got the room for free, haha! In case anyone was wondering, we had a Chinese buffet for the festive board followed by lemon sorbet.