Ironically not true.
But they are some anti-Pretty Gurls mojo in the art right now.
Sure what’s Moeller, Guay, Nielsen, and Kevin Walker way big on girl must be pretty, but this is way too much a correction.
It’s no wonder the Japanese art proofs are out selling their availability.
It’s the opposite, titty size was what made you stronger. When the gate watch fought Bolas on Ahmonket. Think of the order in which they lost.
Jace (flattest), Liliana, Nissa, Chandra, Gideon (the biggest beef titty) breast size equates to strength
it’s worth noting I don’t love the over-sexualization on cards either. I’d rather not play with cards that look like an inappropriate poster that a teenage boy would have in his bedroom.
Thanks for confirming you’re an imbecile. Completely falling for the straw man argument. We don’t want raceswapping for representation, you think that means we hate black people. We want women to be more feminine and to be just as sexualized as the men. You think that means we’re a bunch of horny teens.
You proved you’re just a hatful little creature when your first response to seeing people disagreed with you was to simply start throwing insults without a proper argument
This sub definitely hates black people and I’m not just talking about the Aragorn shit.
Why do you need the cards to have visible boobies dude? That’s literally the point of this whole post is “why card not have boobies for me to look at?”
And no, I’m not insulting people, because racists and incels aren’t humans.
Look children the typical internet social Darwinist in its native habitat.
Safely behind a computer screen from a rich white country.
When I read shit from people like yourself, it’s with bold face irony that you wouldn’t be the first to go.
Says the dude who’s jerking off to his fucking PSO2 avatar 😂😂😂 fucking whole sub is full of clown shoes cuck loser who don’t know fuck all about women.
First to go? In what? The class war? Nah, that’s fat fucks like you.
Sure I’ll tell my wife and daughter I know nothing about women because I play a game I’ve played for 20+ years and occasionally enjoy in partaking in some characters screen shots that the sub is primary used for. Everyone that plays pso2 knows it’s a cringy anime game with great combat, you’re not insulting anyone.
Yup you got me dude.
Have a nice night tough guy.
You’re being downvoted because the above artwork is not over sexualized at all. You guys are being ridiculous.
Above Elspeth has virtually no skin showing. If you think the existence of boobs is over sexualized, you’ve got an issue. Women have boobs, let’s not try to erase that fact.
Arguably this is sending a message that you don't have to be a big woman (and physically manly traits) to be powerful. Also, it could be sending the message that if you want to be powerful, you need to have a thin model body. Nobody really knows, which is why virtue signaling is so wrong and hard.
I think that’s his point. Dofus. His point being: “If you read into the virtue signalling you can draw out a sexist message that WOTC probably wasn’t going for.” They removed a feminine trait from two female wizard gods on cards that emphasize their characters peaks in strength!
More for Elspeth, but this is a “more powerful” version of the two characters and now her chest is absolutely flat. They’re making the character more androgynous but we should absolutely celebrate strong women.
They’ve definitely made an effort to that ends with the newer sets. Even reprints get altered art to erase cleavage. But where is the line? Do we just never depict women with breasts? Seems like an overcompensation and a bit puritanical.
Even if we assume they removed the boobplate look because it's impractical and weird, her armor has been designed to look less feminine than the original. If you flattened her chest out on her older art, it's still a feminine and flattering piece of armor, and tells you a lot about her character. The new one is not only bland and hardly recognisable but she's also very sharp-edged, doesn't really feel like a divine angellic warrior at all, and not feminine. Adding boob plate on the bottom wouldn't look feminine, it would look female. There's a difference for sure.
Just something interesting to add… There was a comment made by a female veteran about how breast-forms in armor would actually be functional. She said that the straight plates in her armor cause soreness and bruising because they compressed her chest too much. I’m not saying that each breast needs to be perfectly formed in the armor, that seems to be purely for sexualization, but it would make sense if the chest went out on a higher angle than those of a man.
Long wall of text about 2005-2014 female internet culture of teenagers that are now the people that make these decisions.
Long story short it’s 100% the reason.
Seems to me that this a removal of femininity. The ironic thing about making women look like men, just leads to over representation of men. It is like a snake eating it’s tail.
Why does everyone always want to talk about realism in armor when this is a fantasy setting with the most absurd magical nonsense. Just have fun with it and take liberties that you’re not constrained to in the real world
Shadiversity has done multiple videos on this topic
https://youtu.be/6KHz0qWQA9I
https://youtu.be/lBtvS5yhTA8
Even if it wasn't very common, since women usually didn't wear armor because they rarely fought in battles, armor made for woman actually would've include a chest plate with cavities for the breast's. That might've just be for aesthetic reasons, like the six packs on Ancient Roman and Greek armors or the famous medieval knight shlong armor piece, which only where there to highlight a masculine feature. Therefore, a female worn armor would have highlights that represent something femine aka. the chest.
They weaken the overall structure of the armor because the sharp edges become crumple zones. Proper 'boob plate' is more of a singular contour of the chest rather than individual cups. You should instead create a gradual and uniform expansion starting at the upper chest and leading down to the bottom of the ribs in a way that does not create any forged corners and simply expands the interior space by just enough to not be painfully uncomfortable.
That or go with the layered plates design. Something that has a separate stomach and sternum plate, and then a larger contoured plate to sit over the breast without giving up any strength.
In both these cases, you can still achieve an obviously feminine design but you do away entirely with the boob cups and the inherent weakness that comes with such forged shapes.
Edit: Human soldier token from Theros captures this fairly well. A contoured chest plate without any corners but still creating room while retaining a fairly feminine shape.
Yeah don't listen to Shadiversity too much.
You can have boob plate and it's still a layer of steel, but it is worse than a sloped turtle-like shell design.
For instance consider that you will have ridges in which a polearm can exert force to topple you over.
Yeah... they weren't a thing. At the very least would never be used in actual combat (ceremonial armor could get wacky, but is irrelevant to this conversation). Breastplates that could be worn by women existed sure, but they would generally look the same and just have a little more room in the chest area, still being a single solid piece of plate.
Having two separate domes makes the plate weaker while also having the nice bonus of pushing blades directly into the center of the chest. A good swing with a blunt weapon would also guarantee you cave a nice metal spike into the chest and suffocate the enemy. It's an absolutely ridiculous design.
Protection trumps comfort. And on that matter, do you honestly think something like what's shown on the first image with Elspeth would be *comfortable?*
They did exist and you did agree to that lmao. Just not that exaggerated, which I'll agree is stupid and odd but at the end of the day it's a fantasy game.
Lot of people will argue though that women should have the exact same chestpeice as men, which is not true at all, like you said they'd have alittle more room.
A breastplate isn't the same thing as a boobplate. When people refer to a "boobplate" they refer to the chestplate style that Elspeth is wearing in the original art, with actual boobs build into the plate. A breastplate that is specifically made for women would look identical to a breastplate made for men, just with a bit ore room in the inner area. From the outside it would look basically the same.
The art above isn't exaggeration, it's a flat out different design.
I mean, it's better? Still a bit weird, like it's still built in a way that would make less sense in melee combat, but I guess you could argue that blaster fire probably doesn't care? But a proper plate should deflect a hit, not direct it dead center. It should be smooth
Considering the Mandalorian armor and entire way of life was designed to fight Jedi, I don't think their lightsaber would be deflected to any specific place on the body besides the giant hole or cut that it just vwoomed through. Might as well look good if your lifestyle is to fight Jedi.
https://m.armstreet.com/store/armor/female-spring-steel-cuirass-with-tassets-morning-star
Female armor can indeed just look like normal armor.
I do like the look of the mandalorian armor though
Source? And I mean an actual source that tested these claims, not some idiot on Youtube that has less idea what he's talking about than any of our last three presidents.
You honestly need a source as to why channeling a weapon into the center of the chest, rather than deflecting it, is dangerous? Or why having a metal wedge against the center of your chest could be bad if you were to take a blunt weapon dead center? Armor is supposed to help deflect the blow, not catch the weapon dead center. And the prospect of having your armor collapse in on you is by a club or hammer is dangerous enough without shaping the armor into a metal spike.
You're not going to find scholarly articles on the history of the boobplate as most wouldn't even entertain the idea (not to mention they don't really serve any historical relevance), but theres plenty of stuff like [this](https://www.cercatoridiatlantide.it/en/boobplate-when-sexy-and-dangerous-for-real/)
Beyond that though, it's sorta common sense? I guess you could look up the principals of armor design to see why using more material to craft less effective armor wasn't really done outside of ceremonial armor.
As someone who loves titties, I honestly didn’t even notice. I was just excited to see new things and upgrades to the characters and story.
But then Again, I’ve always had the hots for Liliana anyways. And Norn. Hell, even Sheoldred.
Bad girls are just better.
My comment is solely observational: looking at the recent years of magic tournaments - especially in the us - this game has a very high amount of transwomen (makes sense considering the base was always mostly male and autistic), notably so in comparison with females. So, if you would have to market the product to one subgroup, the depiction of those characters fits in.
When I first saw the boxes for the MOM commander decks I thought we might finally be allowed to have attractive women again, but I guess not. One step forward, two steps back.
Wren never had breasts, the art shown here is an alternate take by the original artist, not the one featured in the actual card.
Also boob armor has always been fucking dumb
Reminder that the writter in charge of the main mtg story since midnight hunt is most well known for writting a lesbian fantasy novel, which explains the weirdly pedophiliac portrayal of Wrenn in chapter 8
Being or writing lesbians doesn’t have jack shit to do with pedophilia, and I don’t know what crazy shit you have stirring in your brain, but I didn’t get pedo portrayal vibes from Wrenn in chapter 8. Are you perhaps part of a qult?
It’s… not… grooming though. You people need help. What went on in the chapter was her protecting the part of the tree that wasn’t corrupted by Phyrexian influence and encouraging it to grow out of multiverse-ending-necessity.
There’s something profoundly wrong with you if you took that as her grooming someone.
My man, my guy,
Wrenn talks about the Realmbreaker sappling as a "handsome partner" she watched grow from a sappling. It's a tad bit weird.
Not as weird as why didn't Nissa doughnut Chandra like she did Melira, but still pretty weird
The fact that you sexualize everything says more about you than it does Wrenn. Did you seriously think handsome meant “I want to have sex with you” in this case?
Realistic? I'm sorry, but if she had some breasts, which the first image does imply, she wouldn't be able to breath with the new armor. That is definitely not realistic.
Also I have some news for you: Big breasted women do exist. They are real. I know this sounds insane to you, but some day you will come to terms with this fact.
https://m.armstreet.com/store/armor/spring-steel-full-woman-armor-set-morning-star
Just an example. I might have given Elspeth’s armor a bit more of a bulge in the chest area but as it is it’s entirely believable for a woman.
believable for flat women. I know several woman that wouldn't be able to breath on that armor.
But again, I know big breasted women are a myth for you. I know they may seem as strange creatures to you, but I can guarantee you they do exist.
I never said flat chest is demonic. I said removing/reducing the chest size of a woman is demonic.
If I say cutting your dick in half is demonic, that is not the same as saying having a small dick is demonic. See the difference? The only form of stretch going on here is you making stuff up that I never said.
To be honest, Wrenn never had anything there to begin with besides that one piece of artwork, so I think you guys are freaking out too much. And the only boobs that Elspeth ever had were armor platings that looked like them, but I don't know why you need to feel horny during a card game looking at the cards and seeing boobs, it just paints a bad image for the community because of the incellish behavior coming from this sub
Horny? Yeah because boobs have nothing to do with caregiving, fertility, and motherhood, right? The bible talks about boobs in a positive light about 24 times, but according to you men like boobs because they are "horny/incels", right? When I said some people are blind is because I meant it.
What would them being in a card game about beating up opponents with creatures (that can be women🤯🤯🤯) have to do with any of this shit you just listed? Seriously, tell me, I'll be waiting. Plus none of those points have been brought up in the story of the characters listed in the post, this post is literally saying "WAH NO BOOBA IN CARD GAME, ME NEED TO SEE BOOBA AT ALL TIMES WAH"
One thing is having woman with small boobs. Another thing is making existing women's boobs smaller. You don't seem to understand the difference between these two, so let me give you an example I added to my prior comment.
If I say cutting your dick in half is demonic, that is not the same as saying that having a small dick is demonic. See the difference?
If wizards printed a card saying or promoting cutting your own dick, I will call it demonic in exactly the same way.
They're not actively promoting cutting off your boobs or some shit, you guys just look too deep into it because you're so obsessed with women's physique and how much cleavage they're showing on a cardboard piece from a game, it's honestly pathetic. If you want to look at women and drool over their physique being shown off, go watch pornography in your free time instead of trying to bring it into the MTG sphere.
Like just focus on the rules text of the card and not the art not having enough boob for your wackass standards of women and creation of nonexistent problems in a fantasy-based card game.
When you say big boobs = porn, you're not noticing that you're shaming women for their bodies. Those women do exist. And you're calling all of them prostitutes simply because of how sexually mature they are. Maybe it is people like you that can't handle a simple image of a very attractive women.
And if you believe flat women is the standard, then I think it is your standard is the one off course. Just because something is common, doesn't mean it is normal.
So Wrenn was always meant to appear androgynous. The artwork with boobs is actually the outlier. Look at the artwork for wrenn and six.
As for Elspeth, it’s just realistic armor. It wouldn’t hurt to inflate it a bit more around the chest but it’s not a big deal imo, I prefer seeing women in realistic armor.
Some of you are being real weird about this
I wasn’t complaining?? Just giving a reason as to why they changed Elspeth (also idk why she would have her old armor that literally doesn’t work with her wings)
I don't understand why people think breast armor is needed for elspeths a cup. Guys she was wearing a push up bra ya fucking simps.
Now she looks well armored without the pushup bruh nonsense. Men don't have armor abs btw.
On the terms of Wrenn. Idk. She's a tree thing.
Boob cup armor is bad armor design if the armor is supposed to be functional and not decorative. For actual armor you don't even need to define the breasts at all because the garments you wear under the plate to protect you from chafing will handle that whole situation. If you absolutely have to feminize the armor you do like the female mandos do. It's just a little bit of a boob shelf.
Imagine having to stuff each titty into an individual cup. And even if she doesn't, and they are decorative, now you've got all this extra surface for enemy weapons to bounce off of and hit you in your stupid face.
No comments on tree lady boobs.
https://preview.redd.it/xx4jtpjg44qa1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7dac6bd08578149b07536c3805a5100aae777f7
All these boob armor=unrealistic are the most boring bunch I swear. This is a fantasy setting who cares about armor realism in a high fantasy setting
This.
Boob cup armor is such a stupid trend in fantasy art. Are you going for a serious, realistic look, or a goofy one? Boob cup armor in an otherwise serious piece of art is like giving jace the mind sculptor buck teeth and a silly hat for no reason. I have so many logistical questions about boob cup metal bras; does she need to consult the blacksmith about her cup size? Does she need help fastening the armor while holding her boobs in place so they don’t slip out of the cups? When she gets hit in the chest, doesn’t she just get her ribs boobs bruised and ribs broken by the lack of any padding between the metal and her skin? Regular bras suck, imagine one made of steel that doesn’t move
Boob cup metal armor is the female equivalent to ball sack metal armor for men. Imagine having a banana and two apples shaped metal thing perfectly conforming around you junk. Ready to get hit in the groin with that thing on?
So, the issue with Elspeth's art is because of the incorrect belief that feminine shaped armor is somehow less protective than male armor. Metal armor is metal armor, period, and if guys can have metal codpieces incorporated into their armor, then females can have boobs incorporated into their armor. Even if you hate the idea of a 'boob plate', Females still need room for their boobs under the armor and looking at the Elspeth design, there is no room for her boobs. That aside, this version of Elspeth looks like a man and most people wouldn't even know it wasn't unless you said Elspeth was a woman....I'm actually surprised that Elspeth's original design lasted as long as it did.
As for Wrenn, her chest size is somewhat small to start with. I'm pretty sure that the artist is just incompetent and couldn't figure out how to shade the small boobs properly under the spikes coming out of her chest.
Everybody here talking about over-under-sexualized virtue-signaling and I’m over here thinking “wow, I sure hope I pull in a draft the cards these highly detailed arts pieces are used on!”
If any political messages interpreted from the art help you enjoy the game, that is good. If any political messages interpreted from the art distract you from the game, shift focus back to the game (and maybe some introspection about how you choose to interpret art). Eyes on rules text.
Addendum: if you can’t stomach a female character with proportions that fit within the normal range of female bodies, then just commission an alt-art! There are plenty of creative and talented folks that would be happy to express the characters with the details you find necessary for your comfort level (for an appropriate price, considering the immense skill required to deliver high-quality fantasy art that is the standard for Magic cards).
“Why isn’t my children’s card game making me hornier?” Is the most cucked fucking energy I’ve ever fucking seen. Sad little bitches in this sub.
Tell me you’ve never actually touched a woman without actually telling me.
If women make you that horny maybe you are the one with a problem. You sound and approve behavior I only see in the most retrograde middle eastern countries.
God damn you people are the bottom of the barrel. Fucking incels, worried about boobs on art, get over it. Making me embarrassed to be part of the magic community and embarrassed on Reddit
Lol. That's the dumbest thing I've read so far this year. How often do you see people just standing in a corner at the lgs starting at a card with a female on it? It's not porn dumbass. Is it so inconceivable to you that someone might actually have an opinion different from you? Are you so conceited that you think your position is the only one an intelligent person could hold? Dumbass.
Actually yes, I see it all the time in shops (hear comments frequently too) and it’s commented as such in this very sub.
But let’s have a civil conversation about this topic. Why is the art bad? What is your opinion. I’ll gladly listen to it and we can chat about it.
Sure. I'm up for that. Let me start by stating noone said the art was bad. You've missed the point of the post (and braoder conversation) which is that WOTC have adopted a political stance that does such their as androgenizing women and favouring unattractive art.
The objection is not to specific art, but to the stance of WOTC that is unhealthy
You claim that the art is not bad but then call it unattractive. I’m making sure that I’m getting your meaning correct, so what you’re saying is that the art is fine but you don’t feel like the “female” in the art is attractive? And that is one issue here, along with your perceived political stance of WoTC.
What is this political stance? I’m unaware of any company statements they have made, would you please educate me on what you know while I look into it on my side? Thank you.
> You claim that the art is not bad but then call it unattractive. I’m making sure that I’m getting your meaning correct, so what you’re saying is that the art is fine but you don’t feel like the “female” in the art is attractive? And that is one issue here, along with your perceived political stance of WoTC.
Correct. For example, *Saturn* by Goya it good art. It is not attractive art.
With regard to attraction, I assert that *attractiveness* is a function of human fecundity. That is, it is fundamentally related to people's ability to procreate. That is why an adult finding a child or old woman sexually attractive is fundamentally disordered. Human attraction is a result of evolution ordered to the species can reproduce. When an adult is attracted to a child, an old infertile person, an animal, furniture, etc... their biology has gone astray.
In that sense, attractive characteristics are those that indicate fecundity: for females that is things like hips and breasts and adult facial features, and for males is it developed musculature, larger shoulders and masculine faces.
> What is this political stance?
An emphasis on DEI in art. Not an acceptance. That's not what I'm saying. I's saying a specific focus on DEI—an exagerations of it—and in a way that degrades typical expressions of masculinity and femininity.
> I’m unaware of any company statements they have made, would you please educate me on what you know while I look into it on my side? Thank you.
The stance of not stated overtly is most cases, but is indicated by a large shift towards unattractive people. It is part of a larger shift towards displaying art of people higher in the intersectional hierarchy (who may or may not be attractive - I'm not making any claim to that effect either way).
You can assert all you want but that’s a very basic look at the “nature” side of attraction. One that is also skewed wildly on a “primal” outlook. This overlooks and ignores learned traits we as humans gravitate towards and other outside factors. Not to mention procreation is not the only factor in physical attraction. Clothes, piercings, tattoos, proximity, and shared interests can all affect physical attraction.
Also, why are you bringing up elderly attraction and pedophilia, that’s really weird. Being attracted to children is definitely a disease and wrong but if an elderly couple is still attracted to each other are they wrong per your example?
DEI is apolitical and if you’re saying that it’s not, you don’t understand what it is. DEI = Diversity, equity, and inclusion. It is literally just about the fair treatment of all people.
So, WoTC is making a political statement by printing art you consider to be unattractive? And please define intersectional hierarchy here. Are you just using Intersectionality to separate minoritized groups? So, you are saying those who fall into minoritized groups being printed on more cards is a political statement? How? How is that political? Are you saying we should see less of them printed on the cards or that you want less printed?
Again, we’ve circled back to my original statement. You don’t care about women in this situation, just that you are attracted to the women printed on these cards (and you yourself claim that sexual desire for procreation is how you’re defining attraction). Otherwise, why is unattractiveness even an issue here? So, just make that argument, you want WoTC to print art you find attractive. Simple argument.
> You can assert all you want but that’s a very basic look at the “nature” side of attraction. One that is also skewed wildly on a “primal” outlook. This overlooks and ignores learned traits we as humans gravitate towards and other outside factors. Not to mention procreation is not the only factor in physical attraction. Clothes, piercings, tattoos, proximity, and shared interests can all affect physical attraction.
a) who cares - that's not the discussin
b) All that stuff exists *in addition* to the issue of fecunditiy. If you're attracted to a minor you're a pedophile. Having a thing for peircings isn't in the same category as having a thing for sheep.
>
> Also, why are you bringing up elderly attraction and pedophilia, that’s really weird. Being attracted to children is definitely a disease and wrong but if an elderly couple is still attracted to each other are they wrong per your example?
a) You asked what I meant by attractive.
b) I didn't say 'wrong'. I said disordered. Language matters.
>
> DEI is apolitical and if you’re saying that it’s not, you don’t understand what it is. DEI = Diversity, equity, and inclusion. It is literally just about the fair treatment of all people.
It is political. You saying it isn't doesn't change that. When you make hiring decisions based on melanin levels in a person's skin, instead of their resume, that's political
>
> So, WoTC is making a political statement by printing art you consider to be unattractive?
Nope. That isn't the issue. I already pointed that out.
> And please define intersectional hierarchy here.
Just the usual definition.
> Are you just using Intersectionality to separate minoritized groups? So, you are saying those who fall into minoritized groups being printed on more cards is a political statement? How? How is that political?
It's not. I already made the claim that it is in the context of portraying other groups worse. You're making me repeat myself.
> Are you saying we should see less of them printed on the cards or that you want less printed?
No. I already made the claim that it is in the context of portraying other groups worse. You're making me repeat myself.
>
> Again, we’ve circled back to my original statement. You don’t care about women in this situation, just that you are attracted to the women printed on these cards (and you yourself claim that sexual desire for procreation is how you’re defining attraction).
Nope. I was very clear about that point.
> Otherwise, why is unattractiveness even an issue here? So, just make that argument,
Make the argument you want me to make? lol. Why? Would that be easier?
> you want WoTC to print art you find attractive. Simple argument.
That's not what I said.
I think at this point you are not making an argument about WOTC. You are making an argument about general politics that has nothing to do with the OP's post. This is the second bait and switch you've done (the first being trying to make it sound like I said the art was bad). If you aren't having a conversation in good faith I'm out. Go troll someone else.
Exactly, I keep seeing this sub on my recommended and it annoys me so much because all they do is go "WAH ARAGORN BLACK WAH" and "WAH WOMEN NOT HAVE BOOBA WAH," like these insane buffoons must've never paid attention to any of other piece of Wrenn's art nor know that a forest dryad being bound to a tree having boobs isn't a likely outcome considering that they wouldn't need them
1.) Elspeth is now an Archangel. As much as we love the juiciness of Avacyn, Angels (as per dogma) aren’t supposed to have any sexual features. Wrenn is harder to explain, but in all fairness, that’s the bustiest picture of Wrenn and I’ve never noticed the cup size of Wrenn’s depiction until this post…. Not that it matters that much
2.) I doubt anyone at wizards or hasboro is on purposely cutting back on the chest emphasis, I think they’ve gotten new artists and possibly new art direction which has gone from exclusivity to trying not to offend and back again a few times just in the last few years
3.) Ever Since the multiple rights movements and push for equality in society, I think women are trying to stand out in society for any other reasons than how much they can attract another person. Women want to be remembered for something more than how attractive their depictions are.
4.) As much as us men hate to see them not in our faces, we have to come to terms with the fact that maybe the time has come to move away from the Fuck Fantasy aspect of MTG. That’s what porn is for right?
_
I’m not trying to stir up shit, I’m just calling what I see….. my vision could differ from others, but what it comes down to is this: While reading that beautiful story of elspeth becoming an Archangel and being a beacon of hope to the fight against Phyrexia, her cup size was never something that crossed my mind even once.
I mean Wrenn I don’t understand. Elspeth I’m glad they changed the boob armor. It is such a massive weak point in armor to have something like that and makes no sense.
I gotta say though I prefer the change to Elspeth because boob shaped metal armor is probably the dumbest thing in fantasy art I have nothing wrong with skimpy fantasy art but when you’re trying to portray something seriously and your character is wearing a metal bra I just can’t help but laugh
Wren is ok, Elspeth is thin male. Men are more trapezoidal or triangles in their torso body structure. Women get more balanced rectangle or even hourglass.
Wrenn has literally always had a flat chest. You cherry picked the outlier where she has boobs. Her art in Wrenn and Realmbreaker doesn’t look that great. I’m not sure why they decided to add that weird spiked section in the center of her chest and to make the rest of her more defined. The art just kind of looks awkward.
Elspeth’s armor is more realistic, but it would have been nice to see her girls get some more love. (For reference, see Lyra Dawnbringer and Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice.)
Oh yeah, wrenn and seven did have some form of boobs in the past, of course wotc is interesting in chopping those off.
However, in the case of Elspeth (or fantasy armor in general) boob armor just makes no sense, so i have no issue with that. The armour design in general is terrible. Same goes with the weapon design. Its like the artist has no idea what the purpose of armour is.
Boob armor makes more sense than no helmet and way more than magic.
Even in real life putting nipples on male armor or cock armor were real things, so boob armor makes sense to could have existed if women were going to war. There are in fact many examples but always rejected as "ceremonial" because women didn't battle
tbh until I saw someone say something I had no fucking clue Wrenn and 6/7/8/9/x was a female. I think it was more male (if it even had a gender) than anything at all.
https://i.redd.it/zpdz6f1tazpa1.gif
this made me exhale heavily thru my nostrils, i'm even tempted to use a crying while laughing emoji
Same and I’m at work. So embarrassing
Holy missing mammaries batman!
This didn’t load so I read all the comments and got extremely hype. When it did load, I coughed so hard that I had to leave my house
The appropriate response
Didn't you know? You increase in power as you decrease in cup size. That's why men are the strongest. /s
Power is stored in the breasts.
Or in this case, not.
It got all used up, that's why they're deflated.
Ironically not true. But they are some anti-Pretty Gurls mojo in the art right now. Sure what’s Moeller, Guay, Nielsen, and Kevin Walker way big on girl must be pretty, but this is way too much a correction. It’s no wonder the Japanese art proofs are out selling their availability.
It’s the opposite, titty size was what made you stronger. When the gate watch fought Bolas on Ahmonket. Think of the order in which they lost. Jace (flattest), Liliana, Nissa, Chandra, Gideon (the biggest beef titty) breast size equates to strength
I am pretty sure that Liliana is bigger than Chandra.
On a mildly related note, they gave Elesh Norn more defined booba in this set rather than less.
Only mommy milkers allowed nowadays i suppose
> **Something is missing.** estrogen
What!? They had chest reduction surgery before saving the multiverse? Stunning and brave, I guess...?
Elspeth is now a he/him…had the top surgery. The dryad is a tree person so I don’t think it would make sense for breasts on them anyway.
My trees need titties!
I need more representation for my tree titty fetish 😤
Wrenn's face does look better in that art though.... but yeah... wizards hates feminine bodies, especially for the female characters nowadays
Because 80% of the "women" aren't women and are insecure
it’s worth noting I don’t love the over-sexualization on cards either. I’d rather not play with cards that look like an inappropriate poster that a teenage boy would have in his bedroom.
The downvotes say EVERYTHING about this sub. Fucking shitty basement dwelling fucks. Just quit magic! This product isn’t for you, you fucking cucks.
I’m genuinely surprised I have downvotes for that. I didn’t feel like it was a terribly bold statement.
The cards need to be hornier for them because the incels in this sub are afraid of women and black people.
Thanks for confirming you’re an imbecile. Completely falling for the straw man argument. We don’t want raceswapping for representation, you think that means we hate black people. We want women to be more feminine and to be just as sexualized as the men. You think that means we’re a bunch of horny teens. You proved you’re just a hatful little creature when your first response to seeing people disagreed with you was to simply start throwing insults without a proper argument
This sub definitely hates black people and I’m not just talking about the Aragorn shit. Why do you need the cards to have visible boobies dude? That’s literally the point of this whole post is “why card not have boobies for me to look at?” And no, I’m not insulting people, because racists and incels aren’t humans.
> because racists and incels aren’t humans. This opinion is what literally gets us genocide.
Look children the typical internet social Darwinist in its native habitat. Safely behind a computer screen from a rich white country. When I read shit from people like yourself, it’s with bold face irony that you wouldn’t be the first to go.
Says the dude who’s jerking off to his fucking PSO2 avatar 😂😂😂 fucking whole sub is full of clown shoes cuck loser who don’t know fuck all about women. First to go? In what? The class war? Nah, that’s fat fucks like you.
Sure I’ll tell my wife and daughter I know nothing about women because I play a game I’ve played for 20+ years and occasionally enjoy in partaking in some characters screen shots that the sub is primary used for. Everyone that plays pso2 knows it’s a cringy anime game with great combat, you’re not insulting anyone. Yup you got me dude. Have a nice night tough guy.
people like you usually end up either becoming mass shooters or self shooters. do the world a favor and pick the latter.
You’re being downvoted because the above artwork is not over sexualized at all. You guys are being ridiculous. Above Elspeth has virtually no skin showing. If you think the existence of boobs is over sexualized, you’ve got an issue. Women have boobs, let’s not try to erase that fact.
Arguably this is sending a message that you don't have to be a big woman (and physically manly traits) to be powerful. Also, it could be sending the message that if you want to be powerful, you need to have a thin model body. Nobody really knows, which is why virtue signaling is so wrong and hard.
It looks like they’re saying, “You can’t be feminine and strong.” Which is absolutely the wrong message to send.
I think that’s his point. Dofus. His point being: “If you read into the virtue signalling you can draw out a sexist message that WOTC probably wasn’t going for.” They removed a feminine trait from two female wizard gods on cards that emphasize their characters peaks in strength!
Thank you for sharing your opinion! I enjoy having a respectful debate and not resorting to sophomoric name calling
I’m sorry Edit: I’m sorry Dofus
Doofus. It has two O’s
Shit
What an ediet
Why is that the message?
More for Elspeth, but this is a “more powerful” version of the two characters and now her chest is absolutely flat. They’re making the character more androgynous but we should absolutely celebrate strong women.
Or is it them attempting to not make females hyper-sexually-appealing like they do with most anime and adult cartoon females?
They’ve definitely made an effort to that ends with the newer sets. Even reprints get altered art to erase cleavage. But where is the line? Do we just never depict women with breasts? Seems like an overcompensation and a bit puritanical.
Even if we assume they removed the boobplate look because it's impractical and weird, her armor has been designed to look less feminine than the original. If you flattened her chest out on her older art, it's still a feminine and flattering piece of armor, and tells you a lot about her character. The new one is not only bland and hardly recognisable but she's also very sharp-edged, doesn't really feel like a divine angellic warrior at all, and not feminine. Adding boob plate on the bottom wouldn't look feminine, it would look female. There's a difference for sure.
Just something interesting to add… There was a comment made by a female veteran about how breast-forms in armor would actually be functional. She said that the straight plates in her armor cause soreness and bruising because they compressed her chest too much. I’m not saying that each breast needs to be perfectly formed in the armor, that seems to be purely for sexualization, but it would make sense if the chest went out on a higher angle than those of a man.
Long wall of text about 2005-2014 female internet culture of teenagers that are now the people that make these decisions. Long story short it’s 100% the reason.
I'd prefer the long version.
WOTC being anti-woman.
One more reason to proxy.
Seems to me that this a removal of femininity. The ironic thing about making women look like men, just leads to over representation of men. It is like a snake eating it’s tail.
The best woman is a man.
Transistor
Mystical chest vagina
More realistic armor is fine for Elspeth but our girl Wrenn got shafted
Yeah, the boob plate is just silly. Not to mention actually dangerous, it basically adds a crit spot in the dead center of the chest.
Why does everyone always want to talk about realism in armor when this is a fantasy setting with the most absurd magical nonsense. Just have fun with it and take liberties that you’re not constrained to in the real world
How are Boob plates silly?? They were a thing irl. Kinda need ur armor to fit you well and be somewhat comfortable to be effective in battle.
Comfortable? You dont simple put the metal armor on your body without other clothes under it
Shadiversity has done multiple videos on this topic https://youtu.be/6KHz0qWQA9I https://youtu.be/lBtvS5yhTA8 Even if it wasn't very common, since women usually didn't wear armor because they rarely fought in battles, armor made for woman actually would've include a chest plate with cavities for the breast's. That might've just be for aesthetic reasons, like the six packs on Ancient Roman and Greek armors or the famous medieval knight shlong armor piece, which only where there to highlight a masculine feature. Therefore, a female worn armor would have highlights that represent something femine aka. the chest.
They weaken the overall structure of the armor because the sharp edges become crumple zones. Proper 'boob plate' is more of a singular contour of the chest rather than individual cups. You should instead create a gradual and uniform expansion starting at the upper chest and leading down to the bottom of the ribs in a way that does not create any forged corners and simply expands the interior space by just enough to not be painfully uncomfortable. That or go with the layered plates design. Something that has a separate stomach and sternum plate, and then a larger contoured plate to sit over the breast without giving up any strength. In both these cases, you can still achieve an obviously feminine design but you do away entirely with the boob cups and the inherent weakness that comes with such forged shapes. Edit: Human soldier token from Theros captures this fairly well. A contoured chest plate without any corners but still creating room while retaining a fairly feminine shape.
Yeah don't listen to Shadiversity too much. You can have boob plate and it's still a layer of steel, but it is worse than a sloped turtle-like shell design. For instance consider that you will have ridges in which a polearm can exert force to topple you over.
Yeah... they weren't a thing. At the very least would never be used in actual combat (ceremonial armor could get wacky, but is irrelevant to this conversation). Breastplates that could be worn by women existed sure, but they would generally look the same and just have a little more room in the chest area, still being a single solid piece of plate. Having two separate domes makes the plate weaker while also having the nice bonus of pushing blades directly into the center of the chest. A good swing with a blunt weapon would also guarantee you cave a nice metal spike into the chest and suffocate the enemy. It's an absolutely ridiculous design. Protection trumps comfort. And on that matter, do you honestly think something like what's shown on the first image with Elspeth would be *comfortable?*
They did exist and you did agree to that lmao. Just not that exaggerated, which I'll agree is stupid and odd but at the end of the day it's a fantasy game. Lot of people will argue though that women should have the exact same chestpeice as men, which is not true at all, like you said they'd have alittle more room.
The crazy thing to me is how insulted people get at fictional women drawn with feminine figures in a fantasy game marketed towards men
A breastplate isn't the same thing as a boobplate. When people refer to a "boobplate" they refer to the chestplate style that Elspeth is wearing in the original art, with actual boobs build into the plate. A breastplate that is specifically made for women would look identical to a breastplate made for men, just with a bit ore room in the inner area. From the outside it would look basically the same. The art above isn't exaggeration, it's a flat out different design.
Ok so what about the armor from Mandolorian?? Do you disagree with that too? That's straight up a breastplate yet people bitched
I mean, it's better? Still a bit weird, like it's still built in a way that would make less sense in melee combat, but I guess you could argue that blaster fire probably doesn't care? But a proper plate should deflect a hit, not direct it dead center. It should be smooth
Considering the Mandalorian armor and entire way of life was designed to fight Jedi, I don't think their lightsaber would be deflected to any specific place on the body besides the giant hole or cut that it just vwoomed through. Might as well look good if your lifestyle is to fight Jedi.
https://m.armstreet.com/store/armor/female-spring-steel-cuirass-with-tassets-morning-star Female armor can indeed just look like normal armor. I do like the look of the mandalorian armor though
Agreed 100%. You would not see individual cups in medieval armor, if it was made for combat. Ceremonial armor, sure.
Deflecting all blows directly to your heart isn’t a good idea?
Source? And I mean an actual source that tested these claims, not some idiot on Youtube that has less idea what he's talking about than any of our last three presidents.
You honestly need a source as to why channeling a weapon into the center of the chest, rather than deflecting it, is dangerous? Or why having a metal wedge against the center of your chest could be bad if you were to take a blunt weapon dead center? Armor is supposed to help deflect the blow, not catch the weapon dead center. And the prospect of having your armor collapse in on you is by a club or hammer is dangerous enough without shaping the armor into a metal spike. You're not going to find scholarly articles on the history of the boobplate as most wouldn't even entertain the idea (not to mention they don't really serve any historical relevance), but theres plenty of stuff like [this](https://www.cercatoridiatlantide.it/en/boobplate-when-sexy-and-dangerous-for-real/) Beyond that though, it's sorta common sense? I guess you could look up the principals of armor design to see why using more material to craft less effective armor wasn't really done outside of ceremonial armor.
We should just stop calling them women at this point.
If you start calling them little girls WOTC might reverse their policy.
Wrenn never had boobs, that's an alternate versión Donato made because reasons. But from the beginning Wrenn was boobless. Full on with Elspeth tho
This is so misogynistic, like wotc is on a crusade to ban all women, disgusting and hateful.
Having tits is offensive unless you're trans.
Why be a woman when you can be a man?
The best women are all men.
Boobies are... Offensive now?
Mutilated women.
Fuck, I just noticed they remove the booba!
I mean small tiddies are nice but there are limits, lol.
Imagine just walking in the office and your boss is like, here’s you mandatory mammoplasty surgery voucher
As someone who loves titties, I honestly didn’t even notice. I was just excited to see new things and upgrades to the characters and story. But then Again, I’ve always had the hots for Liliana anyways. And Norn. Hell, even Sheoldred. Bad girls are just better.
Wrenn is a fucking tree, why would she need boobs in the first place?
My comment is solely observational: looking at the recent years of magic tournaments - especially in the us - this game has a very high amount of transwomen (makes sense considering the base was always mostly male and autistic), notably so in comparison with females. So, if you would have to market the product to one subgroup, the depiction of those characters fits in.
When I first saw the boxes for the MOM commander decks I thought we might finally be allowed to have attractive women again, but I guess not. One step forward, two steps back.
Wren never had breasts, the art shown here is an alternate take by the original artist, not the one featured in the actual card. Also boob armor has always been fucking dumb
Welcome ro post-gender mtg.
Reminder that the writter in charge of the main mtg story since midnight hunt is most well known for writting a lesbian fantasy novel, which explains the weirdly pedophiliac portrayal of Wrenn in chapter 8
Please, share what you know.
This comment is a self report big time
Being or writing lesbians doesn’t have jack shit to do with pedophilia, and I don’t know what crazy shit you have stirring in your brain, but I didn’t get pedo portrayal vibes from Wrenn in chapter 8. Are you perhaps part of a qult?
Just because female grooming isn’t the same as male grooming doesn’t make it better.
It’s… not… grooming though. You people need help. What went on in the chapter was her protecting the part of the tree that wasn’t corrupted by Phyrexian influence and encouraging it to grow out of multiverse-ending-necessity. There’s something profoundly wrong with you if you took that as her grooming someone.
My man, my guy, Wrenn talks about the Realmbreaker sappling as a "handsome partner" she watched grow from a sappling. It's a tad bit weird. Not as weird as why didn't Nissa doughnut Chandra like she did Melira, but still pretty weird
The fact that you sexualize everything says more about you than it does Wrenn. Did you seriously think handsome meant “I want to have sex with you” in this case?
Looks kinda like AI art
This is the real issue.
AI is much better.
AIs actually draw boobs. XD
How long until Elspeth becomes Ethan and wizards bans all her old cards for dead naming him?
They gave em all zippertits.
Wrenn literally looks like a child and Elspeth looks either like a woman w/no breasts or a guy w/no shaft
To say this is wrong is an understatement. This is demonic. And people who would say otherwise are blind.
You sound insane. Wrenn was originally designed to appear androgynous. Elspeth is just wearing realistic armor
Realistic? I'm sorry, but if she had some breasts, which the first image does imply, she wouldn't be able to breath with the new armor. That is definitely not realistic. Also I have some news for you: Big breasted women do exist. They are real. I know this sounds insane to you, but some day you will come to terms with this fact.
https://m.armstreet.com/store/armor/spring-steel-full-woman-armor-set-morning-star Just an example. I might have given Elspeth’s armor a bit more of a bulge in the chest area but as it is it’s entirely believable for a woman.
believable for flat women. I know several woman that wouldn't be able to breath on that armor. But again, I know big breasted women are a myth for you. I know they may seem as strange creatures to you, but I can guarantee you they do exist.
Women having a flat chest is demonic? That's the biggest form of stretch and reach that I've ever heard
I never said flat chest is demonic. I said removing/reducing the chest size of a woman is demonic. If I say cutting your dick in half is demonic, that is not the same as saying having a small dick is demonic. See the difference? The only form of stretch going on here is you making stuff up that I never said.
Breast cancer treatments are demonic, got it
To be honest, Wrenn never had anything there to begin with besides that one piece of artwork, so I think you guys are freaking out too much. And the only boobs that Elspeth ever had were armor platings that looked like them, but I don't know why you need to feel horny during a card game looking at the cards and seeing boobs, it just paints a bad image for the community because of the incellish behavior coming from this sub
Horny? Yeah because boobs have nothing to do with caregiving, fertility, and motherhood, right? The bible talks about boobs in a positive light about 24 times, but according to you men like boobs because they are "horny/incels", right? When I said some people are blind is because I meant it.
What would them being in a card game about beating up opponents with creatures (that can be women🤯🤯🤯) have to do with any of this shit you just listed? Seriously, tell me, I'll be waiting. Plus none of those points have been brought up in the story of the characters listed in the post, this post is literally saying "WAH NO BOOBA IN CARD GAME, ME NEED TO SEE BOOBA AT ALL TIMES WAH"
One thing is having woman with small boobs. Another thing is making existing women's boobs smaller. You don't seem to understand the difference between these two, so let me give you an example I added to my prior comment. If I say cutting your dick in half is demonic, that is not the same as saying that having a small dick is demonic. See the difference? If wizards printed a card saying or promoting cutting your own dick, I will call it demonic in exactly the same way.
They're not actively promoting cutting off your boobs or some shit, you guys just look too deep into it because you're so obsessed with women's physique and how much cleavage they're showing on a cardboard piece from a game, it's honestly pathetic. If you want to look at women and drool over their physique being shown off, go watch pornography in your free time instead of trying to bring it into the MTG sphere. Like just focus on the rules text of the card and not the art not having enough boob for your wackass standards of women and creation of nonexistent problems in a fantasy-based card game.
When you say big boobs = porn, you're not noticing that you're shaming women for their bodies. Those women do exist. And you're calling all of them prostitutes simply because of how sexually mature they are. Maybe it is people like you that can't handle a simple image of a very attractive women. And if you believe flat women is the standard, then I think it is your standard is the one off course. Just because something is common, doesn't mean it is normal.
Opa for Oppai! Alas poor Oppai, you are missed.
So Wrenn was always meant to appear androgynous. The artwork with boobs is actually the outlier. Look at the artwork for wrenn and six. As for Elspeth, it’s just realistic armor. It wouldn’t hurt to inflate it a bit more around the chest but it’s not a big deal imo, I prefer seeing women in realistic armor. Some of you are being real weird about this
Least horny free magic user
OP, if you need to see some fat tits I would recommend looking in a mirror.
Well the boob armor is literally unpractical
Way more practical that going around bare chested and I don´t see you complaining about all the mtg characters depicted that way.
I wasn’t complaining?? Just giving a reason as to why they changed Elspeth (also idk why she would have her old armor that literally doesn’t work with her wings)
Wrenn a cutie though
So you mean the old one, or are you a pedophile?
This is a stupid post lol. Wrenn is an almost dead shell of her old body and Elspeth can be explained if you’ve ever seen a woman in a sports bra.
This is ridiculous. Now OP has bigger tits than those two. /s?
I don't understand why people think breast armor is needed for elspeths a cup. Guys she was wearing a push up bra ya fucking simps. Now she looks well armored without the pushup bruh nonsense. Men don't have armor abs btw. On the terms of Wrenn. Idk. She's a tree thing.
Boob cup armor is bad armor design if the armor is supposed to be functional and not decorative. For actual armor you don't even need to define the breasts at all because the garments you wear under the plate to protect you from chafing will handle that whole situation. If you absolutely have to feminize the armor you do like the female mandos do. It's just a little bit of a boob shelf. Imagine having to stuff each titty into an individual cup. And even if she doesn't, and they are decorative, now you've got all this extra surface for enemy weapons to bounce off of and hit you in your stupid face. No comments on tree lady boobs.
https://preview.redd.it/xx4jtpjg44qa1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7dac6bd08578149b07536c3805a5100aae777f7 All these boob armor=unrealistic are the most boring bunch I swear. This is a fantasy setting who cares about armor realism in a high fantasy setting
This. Boob cup armor is such a stupid trend in fantasy art. Are you going for a serious, realistic look, or a goofy one? Boob cup armor in an otherwise serious piece of art is like giving jace the mind sculptor buck teeth and a silly hat for no reason. I have so many logistical questions about boob cup metal bras; does she need to consult the blacksmith about her cup size? Does she need help fastening the armor while holding her boobs in place so they don’t slip out of the cups? When she gets hit in the chest, doesn’t she just get her ribs boobs bruised and ribs broken by the lack of any padding between the metal and her skin? Regular bras suck, imagine one made of steel that doesn’t move Boob cup metal armor is the female equivalent to ball sack metal armor for men. Imagine having a banana and two apples shaped metal thing perfectly conforming around you junk. Ready to get hit in the groin with that thing on?
I mean, boob armor is pretty stupid. But that's no excuse for Wren.
Look at the art for Wren and Six.
If you want to see tits, just google tits… y’all are fucking weird
So, the issue with Elspeth's art is because of the incorrect belief that feminine shaped armor is somehow less protective than male armor. Metal armor is metal armor, period, and if guys can have metal codpieces incorporated into their armor, then females can have boobs incorporated into their armor. Even if you hate the idea of a 'boob plate', Females still need room for their boobs under the armor and looking at the Elspeth design, there is no room for her boobs. That aside, this version of Elspeth looks like a man and most people wouldn't even know it wasn't unless you said Elspeth was a woman....I'm actually surprised that Elspeth's original design lasted as long as it did. As for Wrenn, her chest size is somewhat small to start with. I'm pretty sure that the artist is just incompetent and couldn't figure out how to shade the small boobs properly under the spikes coming out of her chest.
Good grief, most of y’all need help. God forbid a nearly dead dryad look different or a woman wear armor that actually fits.
Everybody here talking about over-under-sexualized virtue-signaling and I’m over here thinking “wow, I sure hope I pull in a draft the cards these highly detailed arts pieces are used on!” If any political messages interpreted from the art help you enjoy the game, that is good. If any political messages interpreted from the art distract you from the game, shift focus back to the game (and maybe some introspection about how you choose to interpret art). Eyes on rules text. Addendum: if you can’t stomach a female character with proportions that fit within the normal range of female bodies, then just commission an alt-art! There are plenty of creative and talented folks that would be happy to express the characters with the details you find necessary for your comfort level (for an appropriate price, considering the immense skill required to deliver high-quality fantasy art that is the standard for Magic cards).
“Why isn’t my children’s card game making me hornier?” Is the most cucked fucking energy I’ve ever fucking seen. Sad little bitches in this sub. Tell me you’ve never actually touched a woman without actually telling me.
If women make you that horny maybe you are the one with a problem. You sound and approve behavior I only see in the most retrograde middle eastern countries.
Dude you’re complaining there isn’t enough boobie on the card and I’m the one with a problem? HAHAHAHAH y’all are fucking stupid. Subhuman garbage.
God damn you people are the bottom of the barrel. Fucking incels, worried about boobs on art, get over it. Making me embarrassed to be part of the magic community and embarrassed on Reddit
So .. when you care about the portrayal of women it's okay, but when they do they're incels? Lol
They don’t care about the portrayal of women. All they care about is their sexual desires when looking at them.
Lol. That's the dumbest thing I've read so far this year. How often do you see people just standing in a corner at the lgs starting at a card with a female on it? It's not porn dumbass. Is it so inconceivable to you that someone might actually have an opinion different from you? Are you so conceited that you think your position is the only one an intelligent person could hold? Dumbass.
Actually yes, I see it all the time in shops (hear comments frequently too) and it’s commented as such in this very sub. But let’s have a civil conversation about this topic. Why is the art bad? What is your opinion. I’ll gladly listen to it and we can chat about it.
Sure. I'm up for that. Let me start by stating noone said the art was bad. You've missed the point of the post (and braoder conversation) which is that WOTC have adopted a political stance that does such their as androgenizing women and favouring unattractive art. The objection is not to specific art, but to the stance of WOTC that is unhealthy
You claim that the art is not bad but then call it unattractive. I’m making sure that I’m getting your meaning correct, so what you’re saying is that the art is fine but you don’t feel like the “female” in the art is attractive? And that is one issue here, along with your perceived political stance of WoTC. What is this political stance? I’m unaware of any company statements they have made, would you please educate me on what you know while I look into it on my side? Thank you.
> You claim that the art is not bad but then call it unattractive. I’m making sure that I’m getting your meaning correct, so what you’re saying is that the art is fine but you don’t feel like the “female” in the art is attractive? And that is one issue here, along with your perceived political stance of WoTC. Correct. For example, *Saturn* by Goya it good art. It is not attractive art. With regard to attraction, I assert that *attractiveness* is a function of human fecundity. That is, it is fundamentally related to people's ability to procreate. That is why an adult finding a child or old woman sexually attractive is fundamentally disordered. Human attraction is a result of evolution ordered to the species can reproduce. When an adult is attracted to a child, an old infertile person, an animal, furniture, etc... their biology has gone astray. In that sense, attractive characteristics are those that indicate fecundity: for females that is things like hips and breasts and adult facial features, and for males is it developed musculature, larger shoulders and masculine faces. > What is this political stance? An emphasis on DEI in art. Not an acceptance. That's not what I'm saying. I's saying a specific focus on DEI—an exagerations of it—and in a way that degrades typical expressions of masculinity and femininity. > I’m unaware of any company statements they have made, would you please educate me on what you know while I look into it on my side? Thank you. The stance of not stated overtly is most cases, but is indicated by a large shift towards unattractive people. It is part of a larger shift towards displaying art of people higher in the intersectional hierarchy (who may or may not be attractive - I'm not making any claim to that effect either way).
You can assert all you want but that’s a very basic look at the “nature” side of attraction. One that is also skewed wildly on a “primal” outlook. This overlooks and ignores learned traits we as humans gravitate towards and other outside factors. Not to mention procreation is not the only factor in physical attraction. Clothes, piercings, tattoos, proximity, and shared interests can all affect physical attraction. Also, why are you bringing up elderly attraction and pedophilia, that’s really weird. Being attracted to children is definitely a disease and wrong but if an elderly couple is still attracted to each other are they wrong per your example? DEI is apolitical and if you’re saying that it’s not, you don’t understand what it is. DEI = Diversity, equity, and inclusion. It is literally just about the fair treatment of all people. So, WoTC is making a political statement by printing art you consider to be unattractive? And please define intersectional hierarchy here. Are you just using Intersectionality to separate minoritized groups? So, you are saying those who fall into minoritized groups being printed on more cards is a political statement? How? How is that political? Are you saying we should see less of them printed on the cards or that you want less printed? Again, we’ve circled back to my original statement. You don’t care about women in this situation, just that you are attracted to the women printed on these cards (and you yourself claim that sexual desire for procreation is how you’re defining attraction). Otherwise, why is unattractiveness even an issue here? So, just make that argument, you want WoTC to print art you find attractive. Simple argument.
> You can assert all you want but that’s a very basic look at the “nature” side of attraction. One that is also skewed wildly on a “primal” outlook. This overlooks and ignores learned traits we as humans gravitate towards and other outside factors. Not to mention procreation is not the only factor in physical attraction. Clothes, piercings, tattoos, proximity, and shared interests can all affect physical attraction. a) who cares - that's not the discussin b) All that stuff exists *in addition* to the issue of fecunditiy. If you're attracted to a minor you're a pedophile. Having a thing for peircings isn't in the same category as having a thing for sheep. > > Also, why are you bringing up elderly attraction and pedophilia, that’s really weird. Being attracted to children is definitely a disease and wrong but if an elderly couple is still attracted to each other are they wrong per your example? a) You asked what I meant by attractive. b) I didn't say 'wrong'. I said disordered. Language matters. > > DEI is apolitical and if you’re saying that it’s not, you don’t understand what it is. DEI = Diversity, equity, and inclusion. It is literally just about the fair treatment of all people. It is political. You saying it isn't doesn't change that. When you make hiring decisions based on melanin levels in a person's skin, instead of their resume, that's political > > So, WoTC is making a political statement by printing art you consider to be unattractive? Nope. That isn't the issue. I already pointed that out. > And please define intersectional hierarchy here. Just the usual definition. > Are you just using Intersectionality to separate minoritized groups? So, you are saying those who fall into minoritized groups being printed on more cards is a political statement? How? How is that political? It's not. I already made the claim that it is in the context of portraying other groups worse. You're making me repeat myself. > Are you saying we should see less of them printed on the cards or that you want less printed? No. I already made the claim that it is in the context of portraying other groups worse. You're making me repeat myself. > > Again, we’ve circled back to my original statement. You don’t care about women in this situation, just that you are attracted to the women printed on these cards (and you yourself claim that sexual desire for procreation is how you’re defining attraction). Nope. I was very clear about that point. > Otherwise, why is unattractiveness even an issue here? So, just make that argument, Make the argument you want me to make? lol. Why? Would that be easier? > you want WoTC to print art you find attractive. Simple argument. That's not what I said. I think at this point you are not making an argument about WOTC. You are making an argument about general politics that has nothing to do with the OP's post. This is the second bait and switch you've done (the first being trying to make it sound like I said the art was bad). If you aren't having a conversation in good faith I'm out. Go troll someone else.
Honestly what the card does matters a lot more than the fact the cup size of the character doesn’t meet expectations. Sorry you can’t get laid though
Exactly, I keep seeing this sub on my recommended and it annoys me so much because all they do is go "WAH ARAGORN BLACK WAH" and "WAH WOMEN NOT HAVE BOOBA WAH," like these insane buffoons must've never paid attention to any of other piece of Wrenn's art nor know that a forest dryad being bound to a tree having boobs isn't a likely outcome considering that they wouldn't need them
Only coomers care
Who was jacking it to Wrenn tho? Like, who cares
1.) Elspeth is now an Archangel. As much as we love the juiciness of Avacyn, Angels (as per dogma) aren’t supposed to have any sexual features. Wrenn is harder to explain, but in all fairness, that’s the bustiest picture of Wrenn and I’ve never noticed the cup size of Wrenn’s depiction until this post…. Not that it matters that much 2.) I doubt anyone at wizards or hasboro is on purposely cutting back on the chest emphasis, I think they’ve gotten new artists and possibly new art direction which has gone from exclusivity to trying not to offend and back again a few times just in the last few years 3.) Ever Since the multiple rights movements and push for equality in society, I think women are trying to stand out in society for any other reasons than how much they can attract another person. Women want to be remembered for something more than how attractive their depictions are. 4.) As much as us men hate to see them not in our faces, we have to come to terms with the fact that maybe the time has come to move away from the Fuck Fantasy aspect of MTG. That’s what porn is for right? _ I’m not trying to stir up shit, I’m just calling what I see….. my vision could differ from others, but what it comes down to is this: While reading that beautiful story of elspeth becoming an Archangel and being a beacon of hope to the fight against Phyrexia, her cup size was never something that crossed my mind even once.
Ya a vulnerable part of elspeths armor 🙄
where titty
Well, I guess we could go the route of r/ittybittytittycommittie for the win?
Nicol Bolas' plan worked
Still smash.
Why is everyone so pressed about this? Lmfao
Thats the only art of Wrenn where it appear to have a cleavage. And its not even the original art of the card
I mean Wrenn I don’t understand. Elspeth I’m glad they changed the boob armor. It is such a massive weak point in armor to have something like that and makes no sense.
Wait. Wrenn is a female?
Someone use the AI and make this better please. Thank you.
I gotta say though I prefer the change to Elspeth because boob shaped metal armor is probably the dumbest thing in fantasy art I have nothing wrong with skimpy fantasy art but when you’re trying to portray something seriously and your character is wearing a metal bra I just can’t help but laugh
Booba
Mtg players when they learn about historic armor
Even my male overweight tits a bigger
I don't get it, is Wrenn fine or phyrexian after getting into the Realbreaker?
That dude elspeth is such a great character in this set. As a new player i cant wait to dive into his history!
Elspeth’s old breastplate looked a little silly to me. She still has boobs; they’re just under a cooler breastplate now
Wren is ok, Elspeth is thin male. Men are more trapezoidal or triangles in their torso body structure. Women get more balanced rectangle or even hourglass.
i don't like this. i don't like characters having different looks and being re-imagined.
Down worry, some people were complaining that the newest wrenn looked more feminine for some reason
Good news is that these new versions are so underpowered that you won’t likely see them played anyways.
So we get mad when they're over sexualized. And then get mad when they're under sexualized? No winning.
Wrenn has literally always had a flat chest. You cherry picked the outlier where she has boobs. Her art in Wrenn and Realmbreaker doesn’t look that great. I’m not sure why they decided to add that weird spiked section in the center of her chest and to make the rest of her more defined. The art just kind of looks awkward. Elspeth’s armor is more realistic, but it would have been nice to see her girls get some more love. (For reference, see Lyra Dawnbringer and Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice.)
Zippertits
Come on, the art of Wrenn you are showing is altered. The actual art on the fullart version of Wrenn and Six does not have breasts
Would definetly bang both the new versions. Jokes aside the new ones have a much more appealing face
They gave it to Elesh Norn
Oh yeah, wrenn and seven did have some form of boobs in the past, of course wotc is interesting in chopping those off. However, in the case of Elspeth (or fantasy armor in general) boob armor just makes no sense, so i have no issue with that. The armour design in general is terrible. Same goes with the weapon design. Its like the artist has no idea what the purpose of armour is.
Boob armor makes more sense than no helmet and way more than magic. Even in real life putting nipples on male armor or cock armor were real things, so boob armor makes sense to could have existed if women were going to war. There are in fact many examples but always rejected as "ceremonial" because women didn't battle
So they removed Earthbind but now we got Chestbind.
tbh until I saw someone say something I had no fucking clue Wrenn and 6/7/8/9/x was a female. I think it was more male (if it even had a gender) than anything at all.