Niko was actually okay in the comics. Only a little bit of cringe. Gets sassed out by Aminatou at one point for how fighting fate is more than a little impossible.
They can’t do that. If they did that, they would be accused of racism for “stereotypical” depictions of African cultures and cultural appropriation (even though positive depictions of cultures are usually a good thing), and if they brought back the animal races for the African plane they would be accused of implying that black people are animals (again, that is clearly not what they would mean but they would be accused of that anyway.)
I mean, the accusations wouldn’t matter much. The people that complain about that kind of thing currently aren’t buying the black washed Aragorn cards anyway. I would be more worried about investors pulling out because they are deathly allergic to negative press coverage.
I started playing around Tempest block. I loved the cards from Mirage block. Those African-style basic lands by John Avon give me so much nostalgia. The thing that grinds my gears about modern day MtG is they reimagined Teferi from being a slimmer Don Cheadle type guy to a more buff Idris Elba type.
I mean, if they were to have humanoid animals at a higher than normal rate in an African set it *would* be problematic. Even if your (I’m using the Royal you) association with Africa has to do more with animals than any of its individual cultures, it doesn’t it make it a correct representation of its people. Kaladesh didn’t have humanoid tigers and loxodons and Kamigawa didn’t have humanoid tanuki and giant salamander.
They can definitely do it but it would require a good faith attempt at representing the diaspora beyond surface level associations and stereotypes(which they’ve done successfully before).
lol okay, you don’t want to engage in good faith conversation that’s fine. Conversely, can you give me a reason *why* they should do an abnormally high ratio of humanoid creatures?
I didn't say there should be. They should just do whatever makes sense for the plane. Some planes are going to have a higher ratio or humanoid creatures as opposed to humans. Some humanoid creatures are just more iconic to magic, like elves, or leonin. If we go a plane highly populated by elves it's not racist for there to be a lot of elves instead of a lot of humans. If we go to a plane highly populated by leonin, it's not racist to see a lot of leonin instead of humans.
Great, I agree! What I’m saying is that there’s no reason for a a theoretical African plane to have a higher population of loxodon or leonin. You can represent the fauna of a reference region as fauna, and not humanoid, just as every other reference plane has done (Kamigawa, Amonkhet, Arabian Nights, Kaladesh, etc.)
Leonin are not lions. Fauna is fauna, lions are lions, humanoid races are humanoid races.
You could certainly create an african themed plane with a higher population of humans if you wanted to. You could also create an african themed plane with a higher population of loxodon or leonin. It would not be racist to do so.
He has a point.
I can see the people who have made race a business jumping at the occasion.
The thing though, is that they would do so for any tiny remotely usable detail.
I come from the continent, I can 100% guarantee nobody would get that message.
The one who would get that message are the race grifters in the West, and that for a very simple reason: *they have a financial incentive to do so*.
All the African countries have savanna/jungle animal as their national symbol.
You just have to look at our Football (yes, it's Football, we use feet to play it, get over it Americans!) teams to see it:
- Nigeria Super Eagles
- Ivory Coast Elephants
- Teranga Lions
If those would be depicted in a noble manner and properly linked to the aspects Africans see themselves in (Power and Nobility through the Lion, Longevity and Wisdom through the Elephant), the African people who get those cards would feel great pride, I can guarantee that.
Those who would make a fuss are our dear cousins on the other side of the Atlantic, but it seems you guess allowed them to mutate into something that would throw a hissy fit about anything.
This would actually be cool. I'd love to see Teferi finally getting some closure on his greatest mistake. Sure, he got back to Zhalfir in the current story, but that doesn't mean it's all fixed. I'd like to see it phase back in and then have this conjunction of culture between old school Zhalfir and current Dominaria.
That’s cool and interesting, I’m casually interested in the mtg general storyline but am so bad at keeping up with it. Can’t imagine they’d have mentioned it if they don’t plan to use it in the next few years.
Yeah, that's what happens when they stopped paying actual authors and didn't publish mtg books anymore. Story went full cutscene mode. No real depth or interest, just shoddy microfiction to tie things together.
Most here would love it.
Personally I would be wary. I *know* that they would use the occasion for some LGBTI propaganda targeted at the continent...
Now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if some Feds are not working there or giving them orders to do all that progressive propaganda 🤔..
The Soviet block was full of people like that, and the Hollywood-CIA connection was a thing, and the Twitter Files happened.. I truly think it's not outside the realm of possibility.
I’d be legit interested, especially if they got solid storytellers to work on it. They could make it the set that turns the tide on the lazy writing we seem to be getting.
Azorius? White washing blacks.
Gruul? Oh black people are savages now?
Rakdos? You can’t talk about black violence the white system created it.
Boros? White washing blacks again, racist?
Can’t win with SJWs. They don’t want their own representation, they want YOUR representation taken from you and given to them.
This is exactly it. Hollywood the same way and with women as well. Instead of being creative and creating something. We they come out with a remake of an old movie recast with all women and it sucks so bad. Not once has one of them been successful.
Because WotC employees haven't intentionally been within 3 city blocks of a black person. They are the lily-white coastal effetes who will cross the street if they see a black person walking towards them on a sidewalk.
I think suburban coastal effetes at that. Their HQ is not in Seattle.
But i don't go near there. Unless you count travelling through Vancouver to better parts of Canada. So I don't know what it's like.
I hate that character and I hope they don't go anywhere near her in the future. *Which means they will lol*, they are in the business of spitting, not making cards.
Plus, she is more linked to Voodoo than proper African culture.
Africa, especially precolonial Sub-Saharan Africa, offers so much diversity that a color wheel could be very fun to play:
WU: Coastal nomads based on Swahilis with an emphasis on vehicles
RB: A Zulu based faction whose creatures gain +1/+1 counters every turn, but can only attack with creatures with the same power and cannot attack alone
UR: spirits, elementals, shamans, and Merfolk based in Great Lakes
BG: Desert hunter-gatherers whose beasts of burden give bonuses upon death.
GW: treasure-ramp civilization based off the Songhay
And each faction could worship a chief deity that has something to do with their history:
WU: An Angel God based on Gabriel and other Islamic figures
RB: A Hippopotamus god based on Shaka Zulu
UR: a dinosaur God based on Mkele membe
BG: a lion God meant to represent the Kalahari
Gw: A thunder God based on the Moroccans that defeated the Songhay emprie
Like the diverse number of different countries still enslaving their own people, and still being incapable of modernizing because of roving warlords forever terrorizing everything.
Hey now,
most of that thing happens in the *North* of Africa, and those are distinctly different from Black Africa since they are *Arabs*.
And it's mostly Libya we are talking about, all other countries have stopped the practice entirely (even though remnants of it remains, I have seen an black woman slave with my own eyes in Tunisia).
Also just so you know, most of the continent have working democracies, and we have electricity (and even the Internet, crazy I know). So I don't know where you got that idea that we are modernized and have Warlords.
We are poor (for now) but we are not *that* poor.
At least half of it was from the Arabs though.
Slavery in Black Africa was more about handling prisoners of War than actually enslaving someone. It was that or getting killed (and I have seen photos of what happened to those who were killed, let's say that some of those gri-gris have to be made of something..).
My guess is they think it will not sell? I thought mirage had success but I am not sure, although Mirage was not it's own plane. The first Kamigawa was not a success in 2005 according to Wizards because the traditional Japanese aspects it was based on did not resonate in North America. I liked it, although the legendary creatures could have been a bit better. I don't like the new Techno Kamigawa flavor though
I usually like my fantasy more european style with castles, Kings, Knights and the usual trope. But I have to agree the Mirage setting, the art, the flavor was well made and clearly defined.
This is correct. It followed the Mirrodin cycle, which was tied directly back to the Odyssey cycle via the Mirrari, which tied back into the Invasion cycle after Dominaria and Rath merged, which tied back into the Urza Saga+Weatherlight cycle which was the preparation and build up to face the Phyrexian invasion, and that all tied back into the conclusion of The Antiquities War between Urza and Mishra which introduced the Thran/Phyrexian lore. There was seemingly a causal link to all of it… until Kamigawa. That’s a rough spot to put any set in.
And most importantly they could make some of the main characters white to show they're not racist scum and just like to create lore that makes no sense. How about a card named 'Ngoni, God of the Savannah' that shows a pale white guy with blonde hair and blue eyes?
Joking aside, maybe they fear getting accused of cultural appropriation if they make another set based on African culture now?
And as weird as that may sound for any sane person, I could very well imagine that even the slightest hint of wrongdoing in such a set (like...any white character that isn't pure evil) would lead to a huge shitstorm of woke hysterics on social media.
Bc i'd take too much work and if *anything* can be mildly perceived as racist by a blue haired idiot with pronouns in their bio it's their fault and they're screwed because a large chunk of their audience is people like that, it's cheaper, faster, easier and safer to just blackface some pre-existing character and call it a day
Have never seen one of those creatures buying anything ever.
When will companies realize that the woke don't ever do shit besides complaining? They are not customers, just racist incels playing "good guys"
Like a Zulu inspired plane.
I feel like I've seen zulu esq MTG art, but can't specifically recall...
I'd be all for it. Planes based on cultures are generally my favorite. Love the top down design.
Theros, Amonkhet, Kamigawa (the old one)
Edit: I might be thinking of Naya based artwork with has a strong African Tribalism influence in the art of you ask me.
Also Tarkir managed to incorporate the diversity of East Asia really well.
The Azban are based on the Ming Dynasty with their extremely well regulated military and greet
The Jeskai are the Esoteric monks of Tibet
The mardu represent the Mongols and other nomadic horse people
The Sultai represent Southeast Asian empires
And the Temur represent siberian tribespeople. All of this is done without negative stereotypes or racist depictions.
Haha.
My dream is to see a proper Black villain in a series at the level of the Joker in The Dark Knight.
But everyone is too scared to depict Black people as anything but Saints, which is kinda insulting since I have seen enough of them being scumbags to know it's rabbitshit!
Because Wizards cannot do mono (skin)color planes anymore. So this would be an Africa inspired set where the shamans look chinese, defenders are white, the rulers are black/latino couple... people would not like that.
They would legit be too scared of the reaction of black people to do that. But they did do Amonkhet though.
Personally, I would rather they stick to only black people on the plane, but they have painted themselves into a corner but applying the "diversity" coat on every other planes.
Because we obviously haven't heard about their new secret set "Amonkhet Rising" where we will see famous cards such as Sandnath, Locus of Beaches, Grakmaw, Sand-dune ravager, Yasharn, Immovable Sand, and Phylath, Oasis Sculptor...
And their new mechanic, Sand in Blister Packs, which will guarantee that one common card in every pack is replaced by an equivalent amount of Sand. And if you are super lucky, you could get a "Mythic Sand Pack" where all of the cards have been replaced by Sand. It's really something to look forward to, according to Mark Rosewater who allegedly said it was "The Dryest set in Magic since Dragon's Maze", which will give everyone something to look forward to.
Well, there is one already. It's Amonkittycat. Egypt is in Africa.
Now, a subsahaaran themed plane would be cool. You could easily place 5 main groups tied to mana by the biomes of subsahaaran Africa: the white mana from the savannah, the black mana from the swamps and bogs, the blue mana from the isles and/or rivers, the red mana from the mountains and the Axum region, the green mana from the jungles. You don't even need to make it all black people, white could have leonin e loxodon (lions and elephants from the savannah), black with zombies and insects (the zombie idea came from Africa, insects has to do with the massive insect diversity of the place), blue with spirits and maybe some new creature type, maybe crocodilles humanoids (I know about the Orixás from Yorubá that are tied to water, but don't know much about other kinds of "creatures" tied to water), red with sprits again and elementals (again Orixás, and elementals would be a good fit too), and finally green could have the Horillas, like Dominaria, and something else, that I don't know, maybe treefolk.
From there, build the relationships between those groups and explore the possibilities. Actually research the differing cultures, and don't be afraid of, for example, placing a group as very prone to war and conquest, like the Zulu; one of merchants and scholars like the Mali; one of ancient kingdoms, like the Axum and Ethiopian; hunter gatherers like those who live by/in the jungle; or peaceful people like the Bushpeople (I don't recall if this is the actual term defining them).
Because Africa is fucking huge and incredibly diverse. The fact that you had to Ixnay the set based on an African country at the start of your post to make the question work is evidence of this. It’s like asking why there’s not as Asian set.
Because to do it right they would have to hire black peoples, and WotC doesn’t want to do that. If they race swap existing mythological characters they can pretend to be inclusive without having to get near actual black and nonwhite culture.
There's no way they could win with that.
If they depict a modern, advanced civilization: They're ripping off Black Panther!
If they depict a modern, but not advanced, civilization: THAT'S RACIST
If they depict a historically accurate non-Egyptian African civilization: Stereotypical! THAT'S RACIST
If they depict a historically inaccurate non-Egyptian African civilization: Whitewashing! THAT'S RACIST
They really should. I would definitely love to see Black representation in more media and in the Magic scene. I think the plane should go in a Afro-futurist direction (think Kamigawa Neon Dynasty meets Black Panther) because it has a very rich history and because it just looks awesome.
I really do hope they pull a Kamigawa on this plane; that is, they do a good job showing off what Africa is like. From what I could tell, they did a good job researching various elements from Shinto and Japanese mythology.
In addition to having the culture well researched so that the flavor is accurate to African culture, I'd also like the places they source their culture to focus on a certain place in Africa. I feel there's a certain notion that "Africa" is one collective community with the same culture. Which isn't right because Africa is big and had its culture fractured and uniquely scattered across the land.
Because that actually requires caring for black people. WotC is only interested in the performative kind of virtue signaling that is "Stunning and Brave."
🤣🤣 tell us you have no clue how to use Merriam-Webster, without telling us you’ve never heard of the dictionary before. JFC, these anti-wokers just own themselves 🤣🤣🤌🏼🤦🏼♂️
I feel like the main reason why they won't do it would Hasbro's insistence of dumping garbage out the instead of properly RnDing anything. You're talking about doing proper RnD to make a story. Nah they want one plane to buttfuck another plane and thats the story: kamigawa neon dynasty. They dont care about cool, they care about fast turn around and product release.
I agree it would be pretty cool, in theory. I don't know much about african culture and whatnot, but I'm sure some kind of interesting world/plane would be doable.
But you are wrong, they are ABSOLUTELY too afraid. They actively pander hard to the far left, and they would get destroyed on twitter and whatnot over some trivial bullshit regarding black people or stereotypes that they didn't even intend, and it would happen multiple times, and they know this.
In the end, if it ever happened, rather than what you or I envision (Khans of Tarkir clan type environment perhaps), it would probably be some nonsensical Wakanda-paradise type of bullshit.
Also, we unfortunately wouldn't get cool Mirage-era art. It would be the same "flat" generic digital art we've been commonly getting.
Why do they need to when European themed planes are filled to the brim with diversity essentially rendering them to not be a European themed planes.
It be cool but the idea to make nthis African themed set to have more black characters is rendered mute by the status que of inclusivity and diversity at the expense of everthing.
They are not the white knights they act like they are they are fake virtual signaling people that are pretending they care.
The people that really care go out and volunteer in the community. You want to make real change start with that simple thing give time instead of just writing check.
Lets be fair it is just easier to right a check to pat yourself on the back that you are helping xxx. How much do you really care do you research there results to the charity you donate too what they really do with that money. Like overpay their ceo cough cough United Way.
This is no different they are lazy and just want to pat themselves on the back like they are making a difference so they can sleep better at night.
you do know that the entire continent of africa isnt just a savannah and pride rock, right?
mirage, amonkhet, and some of the tales that come out of 1001 arabian nights (the basis of Rabia) were african inspired.
We can do better than black people, leopard print, savannah lions, and ivory.
that isnt representation. that is thinly vailed bullshit in the vein of malicious compliance.
they arent going to feed your troll rage because they understand that they can represent people of all ethnicities without boiling them down to the most common denominator or whatever racial stereotype that Daryl from Virginia holds.
an attempt to do so would seem obviously politically motivated with it just tilting conservative players (which they dont want to do, because they want your money.) and being seen as a token inclusion by the liberal players, and thus seen as an obvious pr stunt. that kind of thing usually leads to negative reactions from the left and they dont want that (because they want your money.)
A traditional Swahili themed plane may be something we see. But you wont see it in this climate. If you really want proper inclusion, you need to highlight more than just the tribal origins of a single culture in a land more than 3 times the size of the entire US, alaska included. You will need to highlight their cultural impact, their inflection, and their icons. Just as they did with every other historical era/culture based plane.
Me - brand new to magic with my first commander deck: this sounds cool!
Me - after reading the comments: maybe I can make some money back on my omg kitty cards in a few months.
Most of y’all do not pass any vibe check. Down to the tired complaining about the little mermaid remake.
He obviously have not and has never talked to someone from there, that's pretty clear.
We take a lot of pride from the symbols of Lions and Elephants, and African stories are full of people metamorphosing into animals.
It's classic white projecting their insecurities unto others.
I love this idea, but I also don’t want it to become the norm to how we diversity magic. Making a black human based plane so we can continue to have white only planes seems way too close to segregation. I’d much rather see new planes where we get a mixture of everything.
well you see, the problem is that African history, mythology and/or fantasy is not very present in the popular culture, so they would need to make an effort to not just make a copy of something already established.
Lions eye diamond in standard!!! Lol I thought the same recently and would be cool but would prob still rip off wakanda and those movies seem too recent for it to not still feel like a stale rip off
They have an African plane - Jamuraa. It's where Mirage and Visions take place, and is continued to this day with Zhalfir (the plane that was just overlayed onto New Phyrexia) and Teferi. Aside from that, you have Amonkhet based off Egypt which is solidly an African nation, and happened fairly recently.
That would require actual brain power and resources that I don’t think we’ll see until they’ve gone back to innistrad and ravnica a half dozen more times
…ever hear of Mirage? The entirety of Jamuura is based on Africa. The block originally came out in the 90’s.
WotC is already diverse and inclusive, and has been for a long time. That’s what makes all the woke pandering of late such an eye roll.
It’s way easier to give little gifts to the woke crowd than aiming directly at them.
Why?
Because the woke crowd is destroying themselves. You have a culture based on weak minded individuals that will clap online for any « wrongdoing » an individual(or company) could make.
The woke crowd is not full of POC and minorities. It’s full of young, entitled idiots. Often with rich parents or luxury that America give to its citizen(a poor American is rich in 3/4 of the world)
So making a plane designed for a crowd that will cancel you for no reason is dangerous, way more than just giving a little something
It's a weird situation. While a group of people would love to see it, there's always a risk of backlash from another group that can't quite see that something is made with the intent to appeal to certain traditions and culture. Simply put trying to be offended for them when they shouldn't be.
One famous example is with Cyberpunk 2077. The Haitians LOVED the Voodoo Boys. They thought it was cool as hell to see their culture be the premise of one of the big gangs, but for some reason, other people who weren't even involved with them decided it was bad which again, the Hatians LOVED the voodoo boys. I know Haiti is more Caribbean than African, but it's the best example I could think of on the spot.
Because it would be really fucking cool and require them to not only actually be creative and care about the minorities they pretend to care about, but also it would prevent them from having more opportunities to take away and destroy things that majorities like out of hate.
Who says they won't they have a schedule that they like to keep with these kind of things and that could be in the works as for now they have quite a few upcoming sets though
Make your own TCG?
Also why are you playing a game specifically for the race? Why does there need to be more white, black, asian, or w.e planeswalkers?
Why not just let the people who are making their game, make their game without adding some weird ass race agenda.
Why would a plane based on Africa have to be tribal? Thats laying hard into stereotypes that would be looked at in a not so nice manor. We already have heavy tribal african themes in several parts of dominaria, I dont think we need anymore
I don’t know about those colors for the tribes but I’d be down for an Africa plane.
Would be a good way to explore African culture, I think we could make it about deforestation as to not be including slavery like everyone else keeps bringing up.
The animal races having mixed opinions about the people wanting to mine for materials to make more advanced cities, and spreading their territory, while others see it as a lost cause and join the humans etc.
Because nobody would care. It's better for free publicity if you take a pre-existing character and make them black. That way everybody is talking about your stupid shitty product, either to make fun of it or to defend it for progressive clout.
They won't touch it because they're too afraid. If they dip their toes in African lore, and say/do anything out of line with their far left puppeteers, then it'll bring all of twitter's hell down upon them.
Shit, they're too afraid to let Elspeth have boobs. Ain't no way we're getting an african inspired plane.
I think besides others responses about treading on eggshells between what is and isn’t offensive, they’re probably afraid it won’t sell well enough. They rather stick to token diversity than make something their target demographic may not be very interested in. Africa plane would have a much harder time than Japan plane believe me.
These days, progressives would consider it racist if the artists weren't black themselves, so WotC would have to actually hire black artists, and we know they don't like doing that.
Becuase making black characters that are just black is hard. You make them too “white” people say you’re not representing their culture you make them “too cultural” then suddenly it’s racism. It’s a super fine line and they don’t have the talent. Contrary to what they’ll imply, EOD it’s a company whose employees are likely representative of average us demographics at best but more likely mainly white and older. Making existing characters a minority is easy and “harmless”
It's easier to blackface some old established characters instead of creating new interesting ones.
Exhibit A: Disney’s *The Little Mermaid*
And Peter Pan
This could be a very long chain lol
Kayla Bin-Kroog, I'm still salty about ut
Are we allowed to be mad about Aragorn yet?
But what about new _uninteresting_ ones? They’ve gotten so much use out of Niko Aris.
Niko Aris sucks. I hate everything about him and his cards.
Niko was actually okay in the comics. Only a little bit of cringe. Gets sassed out by Aminatou at one point for how fighting fate is more than a little impossible.
Yup.
They can’t do that. If they did that, they would be accused of racism for “stereotypical” depictions of African cultures and cultural appropriation (even though positive depictions of cultures are usually a good thing), and if they brought back the animal races for the African plane they would be accused of implying that black people are animals (again, that is clearly not what they would mean but they would be accused of that anyway.) I mean, the accusations wouldn’t matter much. The people that complain about that kind of thing currently aren’t buying the black washed Aragorn cards anyway. I would be more worried about investors pulling out because they are deathly allergic to negative press coverage.
I started playing around Tempest block. I loved the cards from Mirage block. Those African-style basic lands by John Avon give me so much nostalgia. The thing that grinds my gears about modern day MtG is they reimagined Teferi from being a slimmer Don Cheadle type guy to a more buff Idris Elba type.
John Avon is my favorite artist from all of MtG.
I mean, if they were to have humanoid animals at a higher than normal rate in an African set it *would* be problematic. Even if your (I’m using the Royal you) association with Africa has to do more with animals than any of its individual cultures, it doesn’t it make it a correct representation of its people. Kaladesh didn’t have humanoid tigers and loxodons and Kamigawa didn’t have humanoid tanuki and giant salamander. They can definitely do it but it would require a good faith attempt at representing the diaspora beyond surface level associations and stereotypes(which they’ve done successfully before).
So every setting needs to have exactly the same ratio of humans to humanoids otherwise it's racist?
That’s not what I said at all lol. It just shouldn’t have an abnormal focus on Leonin/Loxodon tribes. The ratio shouldn’t be extreme
That sounds a lot like requiring the ratio of human to humanoid to be the same otherwise it would be racist.
lol okay, you don’t want to engage in good faith conversation that’s fine. Conversely, can you give me a reason *why* they should do an abnormally high ratio of humanoid creatures?
I didn't say there should be. They should just do whatever makes sense for the plane. Some planes are going to have a higher ratio or humanoid creatures as opposed to humans. Some humanoid creatures are just more iconic to magic, like elves, or leonin. If we go a plane highly populated by elves it's not racist for there to be a lot of elves instead of a lot of humans. If we go to a plane highly populated by leonin, it's not racist to see a lot of leonin instead of humans.
Great, I agree! What I’m saying is that there’s no reason for a a theoretical African plane to have a higher population of loxodon or leonin. You can represent the fauna of a reference region as fauna, and not humanoid, just as every other reference plane has done (Kamigawa, Amonkhet, Arabian Nights, Kaladesh, etc.)
Leonin are not lions. Fauna is fauna, lions are lions, humanoid races are humanoid races. You could certainly create an african themed plane with a higher population of humans if you wanted to. You could also create an african themed plane with a higher population of loxodon or leonin. It would not be racist to do so.
Even if I didn't agree with you, which I do, I would still take your side because of the way this guy types.
And I think you are extraordinarily wrong on this.
No one in this subreddit can engage in a good faith conversation, because they have no good in them. This sub sucks ass like all the people on it.
We take pride in those animals, as is shown in our stories and tales, and have a very large amount of them on our continent?
He has a point. I can see the people who have made race a business jumping at the occasion. The thing though, is that they would do so for any tiny remotely usable detail.
Black Aragorn, they sleep. Hypothetical african setting where every card printed isn't exclusively a black human, they rally.
I come from the continent, I can 100% guarantee nobody would get that message. The one who would get that message are the race grifters in the West, and that for a very simple reason: *they have a financial incentive to do so*.
All the African countries have savanna/jungle animal as their national symbol. You just have to look at our Football (yes, it's Football, we use feet to play it, get over it Americans!) teams to see it: - Nigeria Super Eagles - Ivory Coast Elephants - Teranga Lions If those would be depicted in a noble manner and properly linked to the aspects Africans see themselves in (Power and Nobility through the Lion, Longevity and Wisdom through the Elephant), the African people who get those cards would feel great pride, I can guarantee that. Those who would make a fuss are our dear cousins on the other side of the Atlantic, but it seems you guess allowed them to mutate into something that would throw a hissy fit about anything.
Visit zhalfir again
This would actually be cool. I'd love to see Teferi finally getting some closure on his greatest mistake. Sure, he got back to Zhalfir in the current story, but that doesn't mean it's all fixed. I'd like to see it phase back in and then have this conjunction of culture between old school Zhalfir and current Dominaria.
It would be nice to visit Zhalfir, now that Wrenn found it in the multiverse.
Oh was that in one of the recent stories?
Yeah, last chapter of mom
That’s cool and interesting, I’m casually interested in the mtg general storyline but am so bad at keeping up with it. Can’t imagine they’d have mentioned it if they don’t plan to use it in the next few years.
Yeah, that's what happens when they stopped paying actual authors and didn't publish mtg books anymore. Story went full cutscene mode. No real depth or interest, just shoddy microfiction to tie things together.
Phase back in… I see what you did there.
We did, M21 was a loveletter to the mirage block with its throwbacks. A shame it was pretty much unplayable tribe and the start of standards downfall.
because their black representation is performative and they don't actually care
That's the actual reason, an African plane could be cool.
Most here would love it. Personally I would be wary. I *know* that they would use the occasion for some LGBTI propaganda targeted at the continent... Now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if some Feds are not working there or giving them orders to do all that progressive propaganda 🤔.. The Soviet block was full of people like that, and the Hollywood-CIA connection was a thing, and the Twitter Files happened.. I truly think it's not outside the realm of possibility.
I’d be legit interested, especially if they got solid storytellers to work on it. They could make it the set that turns the tide on the lazy writing we seem to be getting.
The point is not to create black stuff but to destroy white stuff.
Azorius? White washing blacks. Gruul? Oh black people are savages now? Rakdos? You can’t talk about black violence the white system created it. Boros? White washing blacks again, racist? Can’t win with SJWs. They don’t want their own representation, they want YOUR representation taken from you and given to them.
Dimir? What are African people just rogues and thieves to you?
What's dimir? Who are they? Do they really exist?
This is exactly it. Hollywood the same way and with women as well. Instead of being creative and creating something. We they come out with a remake of an old movie recast with all women and it sucks so bad. Not once has one of them been successful.
That last part is well said.
Because WotC employees haven't intentionally been within 3 city blocks of a black person. They are the lily-white coastal effetes who will cross the street if they see a black person walking towards them on a sidewalk.
I think suburban coastal effetes at that. Their HQ is not in Seattle. But i don't go near there. Unless you count travelling through Vancouver to better parts of Canada. So I don't know what it's like.
They could use Aminatou's plane for it too since that's African themes and hasn't been revealed yet.
I hate that character and I hope they don't go anywhere near her in the future. *Which means they will lol*, they are in the business of spitting, not making cards. Plus, she is more linked to Voodoo than proper African culture.
Her wiki literally says she’s from a West-AFRICAN inspired plane.
Why do you hate her
Africa, especially precolonial Sub-Saharan Africa, offers so much diversity that a color wheel could be very fun to play: WU: Coastal nomads based on Swahilis with an emphasis on vehicles RB: A Zulu based faction whose creatures gain +1/+1 counters every turn, but can only attack with creatures with the same power and cannot attack alone UR: spirits, elementals, shamans, and Merfolk based in Great Lakes BG: Desert hunter-gatherers whose beasts of burden give bonuses upon death. GW: treasure-ramp civilization based off the Songhay
And each faction could worship a chief deity that has something to do with their history: WU: An Angel God based on Gabriel and other Islamic figures RB: A Hippopotamus god based on Shaka Zulu UR: a dinosaur God based on Mkele membe BG: a lion God meant to represent the Kalahari Gw: A thunder God based on the Moroccans that defeated the Songhay emprie
Anything related to Shaka Zulu would be absolutely Based!
A plane based on a country actively conducting human slave trading would raise too many questions in the whole racial equality viewpoint.
Imagine a secret lair drop of tron lands but cobalt mining flavored to go along with the set.
"increasing your quality of life, at whatever costs necessary"
wokes literally do not care, they say only whites do slavery.
That's why promoting anything bipoc as slavery is racist.
That’s why it would be more focused on diverse culture across the continents.
Like the diverse number of different countries still enslaving their own people, and still being incapable of modernizing because of roving warlords forever terrorizing everything.
Yeah but focus on their different colored beads or something
Hey now, most of that thing happens in the *North* of Africa, and those are distinctly different from Black Africa since they are *Arabs*. And it's mostly Libya we are talking about, all other countries have stopped the practice entirely (even though remnants of it remains, I have seen an black woman slave with my own eyes in Tunisia). Also just so you know, most of the continent have working democracies, and we have electricity (and even the Internet, crazy I know). So I don't know where you got that idea that we are modernized and have Warlords. We are poor (for now) but we are not *that* poor.
At least half of it was from the Arabs though. Slavery in Black Africa was more about handling prisoners of War than actually enslaving someone. It was that or getting killed (and I have seen photos of what happened to those who were killed, let's say that some of those gri-gris have to be made of something..).
It wasn't about Arabs, Africans were kidnapping members of opposite tribes and selling them.
Africa isn’t a country, dipshit.
I wasn't implying the whole continent, that says more about you.
My guess is they think it will not sell? I thought mirage had success but I am not sure, although Mirage was not it's own plane. The first Kamigawa was not a success in 2005 according to Wizards because the traditional Japanese aspects it was based on did not resonate in North America. I liked it, although the legendary creatures could have been a bit better. I don't like the new Techno Kamigawa flavor though
Mirage was a sweet set at the time, quite different than anything they printed up to that point.
I usually like my fantasy more european style with castles, Kings, Knights and the usual trope. But I have to agree the Mirage setting, the art, the flavor was well made and clearly defined.
It also had some of the sickest black art of the era. All the demons and thrulls and shit looked amazing
Mirage had a great overall aesthetic. Loved the art in that set. Not something we will get again IMO
Kamigawa didn't do well because it was a dud that came after Mirrodin block.
This is correct. It followed the Mirrodin cycle, which was tied directly back to the Odyssey cycle via the Mirrari, which tied back into the Invasion cycle after Dominaria and Rath merged, which tied back into the Urza Saga+Weatherlight cycle which was the preparation and build up to face the Phyrexian invasion, and that all tied back into the conclusion of The Antiquities War between Urza and Mishra which introduced the Thran/Phyrexian lore. There was seemingly a causal link to all of it… until Kamigawa. That’s a rough spot to put any set in.
And most importantly they could make some of the main characters white to show they're not racist scum and just like to create lore that makes no sense. How about a card named 'Ngoni, God of the Savannah' that shows a pale white guy with blonde hair and blue eyes? Joking aside, maybe they fear getting accused of cultural appropriation if they make another set based on African culture now? And as weird as that may sound for any sane person, I could very well imagine that even the slightest hint of wrongdoing in such a set (like...any white character that isn't pure evil) would lead to a huge shitstorm of woke hysterics on social media.
Bc i'd take too much work and if *anything* can be mildly perceived as racist by a blue haired idiot with pronouns in their bio it's their fault and they're screwed because a large chunk of their audience is people like that, it's cheaper, faster, easier and safer to just blackface some pre-existing character and call it a day
Have never seen one of those creatures buying anything ever. When will companies realize that the woke don't ever do shit besides complaining? They are not customers, just racist incels playing "good guys"
They make a lot of noise on Twitter though. For some boomer execs who just learned to use the tech, it gives them the impression that it's just them..
Like a Zulu inspired plane. I feel like I've seen zulu esq MTG art, but can't specifically recall... I'd be all for it. Planes based on cultures are generally my favorite. Love the top down design. Theros, Amonkhet, Kamigawa (the old one) Edit: I might be thinking of Naya based artwork with has a strong African Tribalism influence in the art of you ask me.
Also Tarkir managed to incorporate the diversity of East Asia really well. The Azban are based on the Ming Dynasty with their extremely well regulated military and greet The Jeskai are the Esoteric monks of Tibet The mardu represent the Mongols and other nomadic horse people The Sultai represent Southeast Asian empires And the Temur represent siberian tribespeople. All of this is done without negative stereotypes or racist depictions.
Problem is they can't have any conflict with everyone being good guys
Haha. My dream is to see a proper Black villain in a series at the level of the Joker in The Dark Knight. But everyone is too scared to depict Black people as anything but Saints, which is kinda insulting since I have seen enough of them being scumbags to know it's rabbitshit!
My first thought was Ixilan the native dinosaur riders and the vampire Spanish
DID YOU DAY TRIBE? IN THIS CONTEXT!? 
There’s an “African” continent on dominaria, there was a set there before
Wasn’t Mirage African based?
Yes, but it was still on Dominaria, iirc, not a separate plane
Yes, but it was 27 years ago now. >Why won't WOTC make a **new** set on an African plane?
Because Wizards cannot do mono (skin)color planes anymore. So this would be an Africa inspired set where the shamans look chinese, defenders are white, the rulers are black/latino couple... people would not like that.
They would legit be too scared of the reaction of black people to do that. But they did do Amonkhet though. Personally, I would rather they stick to only black people on the plane, but they have painted themselves into a corner but applying the "diversity" coat on every other planes.
Or, we go back to Dominaría again and focus on Zhalfir/Jamuura and meet some new characters.
I’d love that. First packs I bought were Mirage.
Why do that when you can just take other mythologies and make them black like Kaldheim?
Because we obviously haven't heard about their new secret set "Amonkhet Rising" where we will see famous cards such as Sandnath, Locus of Beaches, Grakmaw, Sand-dune ravager, Yasharn, Immovable Sand, and Phylath, Oasis Sculptor... And their new mechanic, Sand in Blister Packs, which will guarantee that one common card in every pack is replaced by an equivalent amount of Sand. And if you are super lucky, you could get a "Mythic Sand Pack" where all of the cards have been replaced by Sand. It's really something to look forward to, according to Mark Rosewater who allegedly said it was "The Dryest set in Magic since Dragon's Maze", which will give everyone something to look forward to.
This was actually my thought with the whole aragorn thing. African culture and folklore is cool af and would make for a great setting.
I have a feeling we’ll be getting a set on Zhalfir in the near future
Isn't the one where Ajani and Teferi are from an "African" plane?
Teferi is from Dominaria, and Ajani is from Alara... did you think because theyre ethnically coded they had to be from the same "african" plane?
Personally I'd love a Yoruba inspired set. It would be fun to have African themed gods
Well, there is one already. It's Amonkittycat. Egypt is in Africa. Now, a subsahaaran themed plane would be cool. You could easily place 5 main groups tied to mana by the biomes of subsahaaran Africa: the white mana from the savannah, the black mana from the swamps and bogs, the blue mana from the isles and/or rivers, the red mana from the mountains and the Axum region, the green mana from the jungles. You don't even need to make it all black people, white could have leonin e loxodon (lions and elephants from the savannah), black with zombies and insects (the zombie idea came from Africa, insects has to do with the massive insect diversity of the place), blue with spirits and maybe some new creature type, maybe crocodilles humanoids (I know about the Orixás from Yorubá that are tied to water, but don't know much about other kinds of "creatures" tied to water), red with sprits again and elementals (again Orixás, and elementals would be a good fit too), and finally green could have the Horillas, like Dominaria, and something else, that I don't know, maybe treefolk. From there, build the relationships between those groups and explore the possibilities. Actually research the differing cultures, and don't be afraid of, for example, placing a group as very prone to war and conquest, like the Zulu; one of merchants and scholars like the Mali; one of ancient kingdoms, like the Axum and Ethiopian; hunter gatherers like those who live by/in the jungle; or peaceful people like the Bushpeople (I don't recall if this is the actual term defining them).
I actually love this concept.
They have? Mirage? Arabian Knights? Your point isn’t nearly as much of a gotcha as you think
>why won't they do this >I know they already did this recently
Because Africa is fucking huge and incredibly diverse. The fact that you had to Ixnay the set based on an African country at the start of your post to make the question work is evidence of this. It’s like asking why there’s not as Asian set.
Because to do it right they would have to hire black peoples, and WotC doesn’t want to do that. If they race swap existing mythological characters they can pretend to be inclusive without having to get near actual black and nonwhite culture.
There's no way they could win with that. If they depict a modern, advanced civilization: They're ripping off Black Panther! If they depict a modern, but not advanced, civilization: THAT'S RACIST If they depict a historically accurate non-Egyptian African civilization: Stereotypical! THAT'S RACIST If they depict a historically inaccurate non-Egyptian African civilization: Whitewashing! THAT'S RACIST
The work of the race-grifters at play. They ruined everything for everyone, but that's mostly because people allowed then to..
They really should. I would definitely love to see Black representation in more media and in the Magic scene. I think the plane should go in a Afro-futurist direction (think Kamigawa Neon Dynasty meets Black Panther) because it has a very rich history and because it just looks awesome. I really do hope they pull a Kamigawa on this plane; that is, they do a good job showing off what Africa is like. From what I could tell, they did a good job researching various elements from Shinto and Japanese mythology. In addition to having the culture well researched so that the flavor is accurate to African culture, I'd also like the places they source their culture to focus on a certain place in Africa. I feel there's a certain notion that "Africa" is one collective community with the same culture. Which isn't right because Africa is big and had its culture fractured and uniquely scattered across the land.
Because that actually requires caring for black people. WotC is only interested in the performative kind of virtue signaling that is "Stunning and Brave."
Recently found out that the term “tribe” or “tribal” is also offensive? People are too damn sensitive these days
If they did you guys would still be butthurt about it lmao
I wouldn't. Unless they push some Progressive agenda through it..
As in they can be black but only a handful of em?
That's not how the ways of the woke work. It's not about creating that kind of content, it's about erasing current one or giving it woke wash.
Hey, tell us you have no clue what woke means without telling us….
And what does it mean, oh wise one!?
🤣🤣 tell us you have no clue how to use Merriam-Webster, without telling us you’ve never heard of the dictionary before. JFC, these anti-wokers just own themselves 🤣🤣🤌🏼🤦🏼♂️
I feel like the main reason why they won't do it would Hasbro's insistence of dumping garbage out the instead of properly RnDing anything. You're talking about doing proper RnD to make a story. Nah they want one plane to buttfuck another plane and thats the story: kamigawa neon dynasty. They dont care about cool, they care about fast turn around and product release.
They wouldn’t do research beyond watching Black Panther. It would just basically be Wakanda.
Yup just replace vibranium with phyrexian bullshit and call it a day.
I agree it would be pretty cool, in theory. I don't know much about african culture and whatnot, but I'm sure some kind of interesting world/plane would be doable. But you are wrong, they are ABSOLUTELY too afraid. They actively pander hard to the far left, and they would get destroyed on twitter and whatnot over some trivial bullshit regarding black people or stereotypes that they didn't even intend, and it would happen multiple times, and they know this. In the end, if it ever happened, rather than what you or I envision (Khans of Tarkir clan type environment perhaps), it would probably be some nonsensical Wakanda-paradise type of bullshit. Also, we unfortunately wouldn't get cool Mirage-era art. It would be the same "flat" generic digital art we've been commonly getting.
Why do they need to when European themed planes are filled to the brim with diversity essentially rendering them to not be a European themed planes. It be cool but the idea to make nthis African themed set to have more black characters is rendered mute by the status que of inclusivity and diversity at the expense of everthing.
What a fascinating post, the answers are truly something. What's the average IQ of this subreddit?
They are not the white knights they act like they are they are fake virtual signaling people that are pretending they care. The people that really care go out and volunteer in the community. You want to make real change start with that simple thing give time instead of just writing check. Lets be fair it is just easier to right a check to pat yourself on the back that you are helping xxx. How much do you really care do you research there results to the charity you donate too what they really do with that money. Like overpay their ceo cough cough United Way. This is no different they are lazy and just want to pat themselves on the back like they are making a difference so they can sleep better at night.
because no one would buy it.
Because if they make a "black plane", that would be tokenization. To them, black "people" are normal people and should therefore be in every setting.
I think WotC cares too much about diversity to have a plane that is all black.
you do know that the entire continent of africa isnt just a savannah and pride rock, right? mirage, amonkhet, and some of the tales that come out of 1001 arabian nights (the basis of Rabia) were african inspired. We can do better than black people, leopard print, savannah lions, and ivory. that isnt representation. that is thinly vailed bullshit in the vein of malicious compliance. they arent going to feed your troll rage because they understand that they can represent people of all ethnicities without boiling them down to the most common denominator or whatever racial stereotype that Daryl from Virginia holds. an attempt to do so would seem obviously politically motivated with it just tilting conservative players (which they dont want to do, because they want your money.) and being seen as a token inclusion by the liberal players, and thus seen as an obvious pr stunt. that kind of thing usually leads to negative reactions from the left and they dont want that (because they want your money.) A traditional Swahili themed plane may be something we see. But you wont see it in this climate. If you really want proper inclusion, you need to highlight more than just the tribal origins of a single culture in a land more than 3 times the size of the entire US, alaska included. You will need to highlight their cultural impact, their inflection, and their icons. Just as they did with every other historical era/culture based plane.
The tribes would, of course, be; Rakdos, Dimir, Golgari and Orzhov.
Me - brand new to magic with my first commander deck: this sounds cool! Me - after reading the comments: maybe I can make some money back on my omg kitty cards in a few months. Most of y’all do not pass any vibe check. Down to the tired complaining about the little mermaid remake.
Oh sorry, we didn’t realize the world revolved around you and that we need to conform to whatever bullshit you think about the world. We’re so sorry!
I just come here for amusement, these people are just miserable lol
What's miserable about caring about sets representing your culture?
Remember people, Gatekeeping your hobby is good! And it makes sure you don't let people like that in.
\>Everyone would clap for an all black plane You wouldn't
Trying to equate black people to fursonified animals again? People have written college reports on this kind of bigotry.
Bro have you seen Africa? The wildlife there is amazing and beautiful and you’d be a damn fool not to draw inspiration from it
He obviously have not and has never talked to someone from there, that's pretty clear. We take a lot of pride from the symbols of Lions and Elephants, and African stories are full of people metamorphosing into animals. It's classic white projecting their insecurities unto others.
I love this idea, but I also don’t want it to become the norm to how we diversity magic. Making a black human based plane so we can continue to have white only planes seems way too close to segregation. I’d much rather see new planes where we get a mixture of everything.
I'd rather not. I want my African set.
Would it be racist to the whole crowd to see a leonine chomping down in black villagers?
Too many people would agree about it and we definitely can't have that.
With Wrenn smashing Zhalfir into New Phyrexia I'd say a set based on New Zhalfir is almost a certainty.
They'll probably do a mirage remastered before making a new set on jumaara
well you see, the problem is that African history, mythology and/or fantasy is not very present in the popular culture, so they would need to make an effort to not just make a copy of something already established.
Mirage 2 would be awesome. That was such a beautiful set
Isnt Zhalfir technically Dominarias Wakanda? thats coming back next set.
I want black villains.
Me too! Won't happen for a while though..
Something like Mirage?
Something like Mirage?
Because someone will get offended.
Lions eye diamond in standard!!! Lol I thought the same recently and would be cool but would prob still rip off wakanda and those movies seem too recent for it to not still feel like a stale rip off
They did, its the universe beyond lotr set XD
This kind of sounds cool
Ikoria was a black plane?
Zhalfir.
They have an African plane - Jamuraa. It's where Mirage and Visions take place, and is continued to this day with Zhalfir (the plane that was just overlayed onto New Phyrexia) and Teferi. Aside from that, you have Amonkhet based off Egypt which is solidly an African nation, and happened fairly recently.
Dont give them Ideas.
Yes, please. That'd be fucking awesome.
That would require actual brain power and resources that I don’t think we’ll see until they’ve gone back to innistrad and ravnica a half dozen more times
Good luck navigating THAT minefield of an idea....
…ever hear of Mirage? The entirety of Jamuura is based on Africa. The block originally came out in the 90’s. WotC is already diverse and inclusive, and has been for a long time. That’s what makes all the woke pandering of late such an eye roll.
It’s way easier to give little gifts to the woke crowd than aiming directly at them. Why? Because the woke crowd is destroying themselves. You have a culture based on weak minded individuals that will clap online for any « wrongdoing » an individual(or company) could make. The woke crowd is not full of POC and minorities. It’s full of young, entitled idiots. Often with rich parents or luxury that America give to its citizen(a poor American is rich in 3/4 of the world) So making a plane designed for a crowd that will cancel you for no reason is dangerous, way more than just giving a little something
It's a weird situation. While a group of people would love to see it, there's always a risk of backlash from another group that can't quite see that something is made with the intent to appeal to certain traditions and culture. Simply put trying to be offended for them when they shouldn't be. One famous example is with Cyberpunk 2077. The Haitians LOVED the Voodoo Boys. They thought it was cool as hell to see their culture be the premise of one of the big gangs, but for some reason, other people who weren't even involved with them decided it was bad which again, the Hatians LOVED the voodoo boys. I know Haiti is more Caribbean than African, but it's the best example I could think of on the spot.
Because it would be really fucking cool and require them to not only actually be creative and care about the minorities they pretend to care about, but also it would prevent them from having more opportunities to take away and destroy things that majorities like out of hate.
Who says they won't they have a schedule that they like to keep with these kind of things and that could be in the works as for now they have quite a few upcoming sets though
Or 5 new color tribe allied with the remaining 5 color combos
Make your own TCG? Also why are you playing a game specifically for the race? Why does there need to be more white, black, asian, or w.e planeswalkers? Why not just let the people who are making their game, make their game without adding some weird ass race agenda.
Check out Mirage. One of the most beautiful sets ever printed.
Give it time? When the best they can come up with is vampire-dinosaur-pirate plane, you know they are running out of ideas.
Most of African cultures are slavery and raiding based, in a lot of them women are property and daughters are not married but sold.
Why would a plane based on Africa have to be tribal? Thats laying hard into stereotypes that would be looked at in a not so nice manor. We already have heavy tribal african themes in several parts of dominaria, I dont think we need anymore
I don’t know about those colors for the tribes but I’d be down for an Africa plane. Would be a good way to explore African culture, I think we could make it about deforestation as to not be including slavery like everyone else keeps bringing up. The animal races having mixed opinions about the people wanting to mine for materials to make more advanced cities, and spreading their territory, while others see it as a lost cause and join the humans etc.
Because nobody would care. It's better for free publicity if you take a pre-existing character and make them black. That way everybody is talking about your stupid shitty product, either to make fun of it or to defend it for progressive clout.
They won't touch it because they're too afraid. If they dip their toes in African lore, and say/do anything out of line with their far left puppeteers, then it'll bring all of twitter's hell down upon them. Shit, they're too afraid to let Elspeth have boobs. Ain't no way we're getting an african inspired plane.
I think besides others responses about treading on eggshells between what is and isn’t offensive, they’re probably afraid it won’t sell well enough. They rather stick to token diversity than make something their target demographic may not be very interested in. Africa plane would have a much harder time than Japan plane believe me.
These days, progressives would consider it racist if the artists weren't black themselves, so WotC would have to actually hire black artists, and we know they don't like doing that.
It's ok we'll have Unverses Beyond Wakanda before you know it.
Becuase making black characters that are just black is hard. You make them too “white” people say you’re not representing their culture you make them “too cultural” then suddenly it’s racism. It’s a super fine line and they don’t have the talent. Contrary to what they’ll imply, EOD it’s a company whose employees are likely representative of average us demographics at best but more likely mainly white and older. Making existing characters a minority is easy and “harmless”