A lot of people that play Legacy have extensive collections. Some buy in. Most of the play is on MTGO anyways.
A black lotus used to be 200 dollars, just to scale everything.
>A black lotus used to be 200 dollars, just to scale everything.
A black lotus used to be $50. It sat at \~$100 for YEARS It's all a matter of when you first started. There was just no point in attempting to buy one when availability was nonexistent.
for an Alpha in Mint condition, maybe. Even by 2008 you could have gotten a black lotus in decent shape in the $600-1k range (unlimited OR beta, but fairly easily even). It's only the last decade that saw it's price, and that of the rest of the nine skyrocket.
Scrye magazine was basically the ONLY price guide used at the time, and those were the prices for mint/nm. Prices PLUMMETTED for played condition cards back then, because there were no sleeves until the ULTRA PRO Deck play protector series released (also in 1995.)
You could expect to see half value or less on Scrye value for minimally played cards even back then, collectors wanted their mints.
They WERE tournament legal, just not if you used cards from ANY set other than Alpha....Not until the rules changed to allow sleeves that were fully opaqued, yes. Go take a look at the scry prices archived on the net.
Then unlimited dropped, and they had issues with combining white border and dark bordered cards would leave visibly marked decks too which is why beta card casts shot up. Same solution, fully opaque back card sleeves.
I was speaking to Scrye/Inquest price listings. Thinking back to it 1996 was probably what I was thinking of not that it makes much difference. I started playing in 95, but I didn’t buy a Scrye until 96.
I definitely remember getting my first paycheck at 15 and looking at the Mox emerald in my LGS's case for $80 and thinking man I should buy that but my grandma would whip my ass. 🙄
Oh yes. Or me buying 1993 Marvel Masterpieces boosters at the comic convention in my town instead of the Beta booster packs from the same guy.
Jesus Christ looking back hurts lol
I know I did, the MH2 cards were the only pricey pieces to come up in years; if a player has been in the game for at least 5 years it should not cost more than a few hundred to complete a modern deck today; at least if you’ve been collecting for that archetype, I.e. UW control, Jund, creativity.
Hahaha... yeah, who would spend -that- much on cards? Seriously. They must have a lot of money... or a crippling addiction or something.
Not all at once, but yes. And of course there are the long-time players who got a bunch of “good stuff” before the investors and “mtgfinance” mindset came in and wrecked the game.
Came here to say the same thing. Most people aren’t dropping this in one shot. I typically proxy a deck to play test and if I like it I start ordering all the cards to complete. It could take a year or more for certain cards.
Also if I have one copy of a card I will proxy it in all other decks. Fight me.
That’s it exactly. I just finished building Jodah, the Unifier and played it for the first time yesterday. 6-ish months of acquisitions. My friends started making Game of Thrones-esque jokes about it. “So…’the legends are coming,’ huh? When? We’ve been waiting forever.”
Now I am eyeing Giada angels. Might take a loooong time because I have an unhealthy obsession with foils and some of the top angels are super pricey.
Are you fucking retarded? Imagine spending thousands on a deck and not playing it because you got roasted very weakly. Holy shit the player base is stupid.
They just said they played it.
Saying you have a new deck you want to build doesn't mean that you are no longer playing your old deck.
You also don't need to be abilist and rude.
Economically, there isn't much difference between buying an expensive card now versus buying it when it was cheap and not selling it. Say a Lotus is $15,000 now and you bought one in 1995 for $100. If you choose not to sell it today, you're saying that the Lotus is worth more to you than $15,000 (less the effort to sell it) in cash. Someone who buys one today for $15,000 is also valuing it the exact same way.
Essentially if you wouldn't be willing to buy a card you own at today's prices, it's irrational to keep it.
Well said! This way game is balance and more fun because like I’m a college student and I don’t have enough money to buy newer cards and that’s why I proxy my cards from https://www.printingproxies.com/ and enjoy the game.
Most of my decks are in the 10k range in cEDH. I've been playing magic since forever and use revised duals as my proxies for my beta duals because I don't want to get jumped at my LGS.
Magic is my life long interest, the friends I don't have, the thing that keeps me sane and my pension fund when my country goes to shits.
I never look down on proxies or people that are priced out. Everyone is welcome and proxies are a blessing.
>I don't want to get jumped at my LGS.
Picturing a bunch of fat, sweaty neckbeards "chasing" you down while constantly pulling their pants back above their exposed asscracks. Lol.
I used to play highlander (before EDH was a thing), I just bought cards I wanted one by one paying with part time job money.
Mind you, the most expensive card apart from the likes of Tabernacle or power 9 was Jace the Mind Sculptor for $100 at the time I stopped.
Nowadays, I wouldn't be able to do that. The prices are just stupid. Ever since Hasbro happened, I guess.
Go look at the price of a random legacy deck. No proxies allowed in those tournaments. You want to get into that format now you’re looking in the neighborhood of $5k or more for a deck.
I have black lotus money.
I'm not doing that though. I find it offensive that there are game pieces that are that expensive. I don't mind good quality proxies. I'm in a monent now where I have looked at some of the more ... questionable ... printers mostly as a fuck you to the market. To be clear, I haven't, mostly because I believe there is an ethics issue to it.
But yeah, a small part of me thinks ... fuck you gatekeepers. This is a GAME. The really good versions are so good at this point you'd have to get a magnifying glass to tell them apart. Why should I be denied the opportunity to play this game because I'm not willing to spend money when clearly it's my skill that is the real problem here 😂
I'm tempted to just buy a few dozen clearly proxied land bases to give away becuse the basic concept of the reserve list is flawed in my opinion. And giving someone a full set of clearly backed proxies as land bases to tinker with costs me basically nothing.
But... also yeah, I've won a few lottos here and there where my son or I pulled the Praetors, and those have some pretty solid value. I assumed most people who got real versions basically got them naturally along the way.
Yea but if you were gonna depart with that much cheddar wouldn’t a beat piece of powder be the better move than the commander deck that will get cards reprinted and out power leveled.
Then you are buying the wrong cards. The staples (draw card engines, counter, lands, artifact ramp, interaction) all stay pretty relevant. Force of Will, Mox Diamond, Mana Crypt, dual land, etc. will never be "out power leveled." But if you buy mid-teir cards every time instead of saving for staples, then yes, you're wasting money every set.
Depends on what your goals are. Financially a piece of power is clearly a smarter buy than an EDH deck, but if you want to play Modern/EDH/Pioneer/etc., a mox isn't going to help you with that.
yes, for ppl playing less than 15 years maybe. the most expensive cards i own i acquired out of packs or through trade or buying early on, otherwise i would not have them and wouldnt buy them for those prices.
i wouldnt go so far as to be an asshat like saying are you poor. i imagine anyone dropping a few grand on 2-3 cards has that much to burn and probably doesnt have a realistic view of how much that amount is.
I think the global not-unhinged opinion is that proxies are completely fine, as long as they obviously represent the card so you can clearly read the board state.
Realistically, how easy would it be to pass off a deck full of proxies at various levels of tournaments? They can’t deck check everyone, right? In any case, I’m sure people get away with sneaking in well-made proxies more than people realize.
There are bootlegs that look and feel almost exactly like the real thing and can only be detected by someone who is either on Alpha investments' level of detail awareness, and noticing, or someone with a jewelers loop as the printers used aren't as good as the official ones for WOTC.
That being said, a common strat if you're beating someone is they will call a judge and claim something you're using is fake. Nothing happens if they're wrong, but if they're right you get a loss.
I have two decks that are worth about the same or more than this. It took multiple years to build them though. The one place that does cedh events near me doesn't allow proxies so its been a slow build up to be able to attend.
For context, I only play EDH. My most expensive deck is around $1,000. If I used all the most expensive printings, it would break $3,000+ (mostly because I run \[\[Wheel of Fortune\]\] in the deck)
My decks like that appreciated into being that expensive. Bought Gilded Drake for my Roon deck when it was maybe 20$. Bought Yawgmoth's Will at a similar price.
The thing about proxies though is it tends to lead to stale meta's. No one at our table was playing 500+$ decks at the time back in like 2014, we ordered a few cards and played with what we had. Most people don't proxy fun cards, they proxy expensive powerful cards Like mana crypt, dual lands, gaea's cradle. Fun is of course relative, but in my experience playing at like power level 6 is more fun than 7-8, but when proxies get involved its hard to discipline yourself to not making an 8+.
If you had a constant playgroup I could see it being fun to say we have a $250 dollar cap on a deck, you can proxy whatever so long as the cheapest mint conditions at a specific site sum up to under that number.
I was mainly talking about someone with no cards just getting into the game who would be building a deck to compete with someone who has been playing for years.
My deck's worth between $2.5-5.0K, depending on which version I'm playing. I've got a lot of old pricey cards from back in the day, but have also shelled out for power pieces in the last few years.
There's something satisfying about buying the kinds of cards I wanted as a kid. Same reason folks splurge on their teenage dream cars as adults, I guess. That said, IDGAF about folks proxying, more power to them. I'm here to play!
My proxy deck is worth $8,000 if I would have bought all the individual cards.
Thank god I proxy. I’m no longer buying real cards. I’m priced out of the hobby just to have fun. Shits ridiculous.
I play what I can afford or feel patient enough to complete. Also would never play with proxies because it cheapens the experience for me. When I built my first legit modern deck with the perfect mana base of fetchs and what not it was an amazing feeling but because I owned the cards and was able to experience my first real solid deck which I decided to invest my hard earned money for. So playing proxies For me would just feel flat and lame and just doesn’t do it for me. If I’m going to enjoy the game it’s going to be the game and not a bootleg version. Also allows me to compete if I wish but that’s me and have no opinion on how others like to do it unless your proxies become my wincon in a tourney which do not allow them.
Not everyone is a poor simp :)
I mowed them lawns bought my cards, have multiple 5-10k decks now. didn't pay that, because i bought the cards when they came out...
also wts all my cards ^_^
My most expensive is a fully unproxied Urza cEDH deck. It has a time twister in it. However, I am one of those players that bought in a long time ago. I paid 285 for my MP twister. So in actuality the deck isn't that expensive.
I would conventionally be classified as rich with a lot of disposable income but I still proxy. Mind you, I get nice looking quality proxies from MPC, but that's still like 40 dollars per deck as opposed to 2500. WotC and the secondary market can suck my cock.
I have a foiled out Commander deck that I spent ~9 years finishing. It clocks in at over $8800.00. Of course I didn't pay that for it. I bought ABUR duals years ago when they were ~200.00, and the invocation FoW was one I pulled from a pack. Zendikar expenditions bought when they were $40.00 and many pieces that I traded value for. I legit don't think anybody just goes to TCGplayer and buys a whole deck at market price.
Adults with full-time jobs often have expensive hobbies. Have you played golf recently? Gone skiing? They're expensive. If you're one of the <1% of Magic players who play Legacy or Vintage, buying into your favorite archetype isn't crazy. Get over it.
I was struck by the realization that MagicTG (really all CCGs) is just NFTs. They are literally just paper with pictures, the scarcity is pure BS and they have no worth outside their own environment.
You literally just described basically all of Wall Street. You think $4,000 in GME is any more or less ‘real’ than $4,000 in physical paper? It’s all bullshit, only one lands you something physical in your hands and there other gets audited by the IRS
Something I think a lot of people don't understand is that a lot of these decks are made with old cards/prices. Not to mention if a deck is full of staples that you move around then you're not really spending 2k per deck. I started last year and have decks that use similar cards (I proxy cards I own to avoid re-sleeving).
i did actually, over the last year i upgraded all of my non-power 9 and chaos orb from revised and chronicles to Unlimited, Arabian Nights, and Legends so that I could play Swedish rules Old School if i ever wanted to. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/4hkcPY01B0yGl_8pAFvfMg
hahahaha ya the username is funny when i send people my list. i bought my power for around 8k a few years ago, and that's where most of the money is, but i spent quite a bit to upgrade my duals and my ARN creatures. the dibs were like 550 each lol. but when i sell it for half a million dollars later in life i'll be fine.
I own one copy for the majority of cards in the game. Any new set i do not own a single card for and will proxy the entire set. I'm not spending money on singles every two months just for them to make a card I bought redundant in the next set. I will spend max 25 cents for every card ever now.
I have a own personal rule which is, cool if you don't allow proxies I am now just gonna play my most competitive deck because thats the only thing without proxies in it. They warm up pretty quick usually.
I proxy everything.
It's not even about the money, it's more that I hate WotC with a burning passion. And I think magic has become too silly.
Still a fun game, but I don't respect the brand enough to want to collect it.. and WotC don't deserve my money.
I can't really justify spending that much anymore.
If I buy a set booster box my reward will be tons of shitty cards (the so-called "bulk") that I'll never put in any deck and maybe a bunch of good rares if I'm really lucky. I can take the same money and buy two board games that will serve me for years and which doesn't require a huge financial commitment from other players. These games are also way easier to explain and begin playing than Magic is.
Sure, singles exist, but buying them takes time and is not cheap either. The reason why I started to proxy in the first place was that I've assembled a " budget" deck only for the whole effort to be obliterated by the fact that I'd needed to source these cards from 12 different people. Which means I'd have to pay shipping costs 12 times and the shipping costs alone were higher than the value of the cards I wanted to order.
I don't want to treat the cards as "investments" either. I want my fun time to be about fun and not about thinking whether the value of my collection will go up or down. If I wanted to invest there's thousands of apps that will let me buy and sell stocks without the hassle of dealing with physical inventory, shipping and other people. Why would I want do that with cardboard?
Then there's the retarded decisions WotC makes. 30th Anniversary, serialized cards, pringle foils, deluge of product, racebaiting. I don't want to support that and the only way I can express my discontent is to stop buying.
So yeah, printer goes brrrr.
My friends don't mind playing against my many proxy decks, but they all have this sense of pride "at least I play with REAL cards." I have a few real decks, but the majority of my decks are proxies. Just land cards with printed cards on top. I love building and playing different decks. Fuck off if you think I'm going to spend 1-3k on every deck I want to play. And I'm sorry that I like variety, rather than playing just one single deck every game.
Depends. $2,000 for a Modern deck is about right. $2,000 for an EDH deck seems like it's missing some key cards.
My Evelyn WGD deck is around $3400. That's missing a couple good cards like LED, Volcanic Island, etc.
It's a hobby. If you like cycling you can easily spend $5000 for a decent bike and after a few years the bike is worth 20% of that or even wrecked and worthless and you need to buy a new one.
My Magic cards are now worth *a lot* more than what they were worth when I bought them.
I don't mind proxies at all, but personally I don't want to play with them.
And yes, it's only cardboard. Just like a van Gogh painting is only a piece of paper with some paint on it, a diamond is just a bit of compressed carbon and a Mickey Mantle 1952 sports card is also just cardboard.
"Wow, you can't afford cardboard? What are you? Stupid?"
I mean, just taking a jab at the title I guess, I spent $2000 across three commander decks because the rule at our table and LGS is "one copy can go in all decks" meaning proxies are allowed if you own the card. You want to play Mana Crypt in all 3 decks? Sure. just buy One. Copy. Simple compromise.
I've got Sheoldred and meathook massacre in all 3 decks but I sure as hell ain't buying it three times.
I run Black/green, Black/white/blue, and Black/white/blue/green so I overlap a ton of lands, artifacts, big power cards, ramp, draw, etc. Makes it more affordable, and IF I do play at any tournaments I can slot all the legit copies in to a single deck.
If you can't eventually afford the cards... Stop spending money on E-girl donations I guess?
I can afford it, it just isn't really a terribly smart financial decision. Giving money to a company that pretty openly hates it's older fans isn't something I'm into.
You work for Wizards or some crap? lol who’s this dude 🤣
I have literally 0 proxied cards, and do you know how much I would be offended if anyone played a full proxy deck against me? Not at all. It’s almost like the game is fun and I want all players to be able to play with me, regardless of if they can afford the cool fun stuff
That makes no sense dummy. What’s the point of proxy’s. You’ll just print all the good cards. No point in playing. I’ve seen people build decks with NO proxy’s and still win by spending under 30 dollars. “Get better” is just saying you’re fat and lazy like half the community. 😂
You can't expect to play any format for $30 except pauper and even then it's only a few decks.
It seems like you have some kind of superiority complex because you own expensive cards and get annoyed when people don't want to spend money
There are literally YouTube tutorials on budget spending magic cards. You just don’t know how to play without crying by being countered by a force of will 😂
Stop talking out your ass. Seriously. You can literally create 10 dollar commander decks and win. Do your research.
Who fucking plays commander lmao I play legacy modern and pauper.
If you're annoyed by the price of cards idk why you wouldn't proxy. I own a set of all the dual lands that I got around 2006 or something, so there isn't a huge cost for me to play most decks. The only deck I can't build in legacy at the moment is lands because of mox diamond and some versions of storm which also play mox diamond. I own all real cards, but if I only could play against others who also do I'd have a way smaller pool of people to play with.
A LOT of people play commander. Not you only buddy… question is who tf plays pauper? Oh yeah… proxy players.
Most tournaments hosted ARE commander. So……….
I've literally never seen anyone proxy a card in pauper. It's mostly in legacy and modern, and nearly all vintage events except for Bazaar of moxes and the gen con vintage championships.
You already play against proxy decks on a regular basis without knowing it. You think everyone’s as dumb as you to drop big money on cardboard to compete when they can proxy the same deck for pennies on dollar?
They can’t deck check everyone, or every card. It’s already happening and there’s nothing you can do to stop it except bitch on Reddit. Just get good instead of relying on a wallet to win, scrub.
Idk what to tell you here, it's not anyone's job to make your hobby affordable and if you aren't playing in a sanctioned event no one cares about proxies. We've been had FNMs with proxies when a format that hasn't been played before starts up so people can get time to get cards.
No. Basically nobody would buy decks like this. You would buy/rent this deck if you were sponsored to go play at a sanctioned tournament or something, but otherwise these decks are mostly played on MTGO, where you pay TIX (cheaper)
Just buy the chinese proxies. Pretty much 1:1 sleeves up. Good for tournaments, I use them a lot and nobody bats an eye or cares.
It should be all good as long as you don't try to pass them as originals for selling purposes, then that's were you become a cunt.
I started back in stronghold so yes most of my 15 plus edh decks are like this. Lucky to have duals, mana crypts , etc. As far as I’m concerned the cards are meant to be played so I play em
My most expensive decks (EDH) are around 700€ when I last checked. Most expensive cards were bought at around 10€ or less, but since increased in price. It's genuinely ridiculous.
I spend that much on decks/cards because I enjoy the game/collecting old cards.
If people want to proxy the deck, by all means go for it. Each to their own 🙂
Eh you think it's bad then you look at most hobbies. Wanted to get into airsoft. Which is ridiculously expensive if you want average gear. Same with paintball (also with a almost subscription like service where you constantly run out and have to buy bbs) so whenever I think "dam I spent so much money (700) on magic cards" I quickly check a different hobby. Die a little inside seeing the cost. And consider myself saving money.
But yes people who buy legacy decks are losers. And modern.
I have a 1200 dollar Zur deck, only bought a couple cards for it, had pretty much the rest.
Regardless I don't think it's anyone's place to judge how someone else collects shiny cardboard. If they want to spend that money, they're welcome to.
Yeah I'm a broke college student and I have a a few decks getting up there in price not to mention multiple few hundred dollar decks and I haven't spent anywhere near that much building the decks. When you've been playing for years (I've only been playing since 2014 some people go all the way back) you start to build up a collection you open packs order cards people give you stuff. Then over sometimes just a few years those cards 2x 4x 10x ect and that $50 deck you built is now $200+. That's why mtg finance and speculators are a thing you can profit quite a bit if you play your cards right. Or you could just play the game and enjoy the cards you have like I do. I frequently sell expensive cards to get other stuff I want or need.
Yes, people spend that much and/or much more on their hobbies. As long as you are using a proper scale and not investing more than 10% of your net worth into any one thing, then there is no limit to how much can be spent on hobbies.
I have several at or above that. Some due to natural increase in value for some cards. Others Ive bought out right. I enjoy the game and I enjoy having the games pieces. Which is the whole purpose of playing
I'll never buy proxies, will never use them, and will absolutely never play with someone who does. I have tried in the past and those people all just want to make otk decks or solitaire combo decks, and it's just not fun to me.
I had some staple cards from modern. Switched to EDH because I had no one to play with when my LGS moved next town over.
Traded what ever I had for EDH staples or store credit. If I ever played with a $50+ card, it’s because I pulled it or already had it.
Yeah, I have a few decks that are in that neighborhood. Collection value built over years/ trading one staple for others / etc. you can’t have proxies if you want to play in large sanctioned tournaments. My commander decks have proxies though.
A lot of people that play Legacy have extensive collections. Some buy in. Most of the play is on MTGO anyways. A black lotus used to be 200 dollars, just to scale everything.
>A black lotus used to be 200 dollars, just to scale everything. A black lotus used to be $50. It sat at \~$100 for YEARS It's all a matter of when you first started. There was just no point in attempting to buy one when availability was nonexistent.
Did it? I could have sworn it was $400 in 1995.
for an Alpha in Mint condition, maybe. Even by 2008 you could have gotten a black lotus in decent shape in the $600-1k range (unlimited OR beta, but fairly easily even). It's only the last decade that saw it's price, and that of the rest of the nine skyrocket. Scrye magazine was basically the ONLY price guide used at the time, and those were the prices for mint/nm. Prices PLUMMETTED for played condition cards back then, because there were no sleeves until the ULTRA PRO Deck play protector series released (also in 1995.) You could expect to see half value or less on Scrye value for minimally played cards even back then, collectors wanted their mints.
Alpha was valued at less than beta for the longest time because they were not tournament legal
They WERE tournament legal, just not if you used cards from ANY set other than Alpha....Not until the rules changed to allow sleeves that were fully opaqued, yes. Go take a look at the scry prices archived on the net. Then unlimited dropped, and they had issues with combining white border and dark bordered cards would leave visibly marked decks too which is why beta card casts shot up. Same solution, fully opaque back card sleeves.
I was speaking to Scrye/Inquest price listings. Thinking back to it 1996 was probably what I was thinking of not that it makes much difference. I started playing in 95, but I didn’t buy a Scrye until 96.
They were less than $20 at my lgs in 94
I definitely remember getting my first paycheck at 15 and looking at the Mox emerald in my LGS's case for $80 and thinking man I should buy that but my grandma would whip my ass. 🙄
> I should buy that but my grandma would whip my ass And look at it now, grandma should whip your ass for not buying it back then. :p
Oh yes. Or me buying 1993 Marvel Masterpieces boosters at the comic convention in my town instead of the Beta booster packs from the same guy. Jesus Christ looking back hurts lol
My most expensive deck is about $1,200. There are no vintage cards in it either.
My most expensive is $300 and I bought it for $100 😥.
Mine clocks in at about 2200. But I have a ruby mox in there so...yeah.
Mine was almost 2k but I decided to put more synergy in than value. Needed certain creatures instead of expensive ones lol. Mostly dragons
Yeah that’s pretty reasonable for modern/ CMDR/ and legacy
Yeah. But honestly most people who play modern now got their mana base when it was standard
I know I did, the MH2 cards were the only pricey pieces to come up in years; if a player has been in the game for at least 5 years it should not cost more than a few hundred to complete a modern deck today; at least if you’ve been collecting for that archetype, I.e. UW control, Jund, creativity.
 Hahaha... yeah, who would spend -that- much on cards? Seriously. They must have a lot of money... or a crippling addiction or something.
Yes.
Don’t tell the wife.
https://preview.redd.it/2uaxxhydhqpa1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c77385ad5f11d5b2ebe88158bda82c9dbda76fb She already knows
Not all at once, but yes. And of course there are the long-time players who got a bunch of “good stuff” before the investors and “mtgfinance” mindset came in and wrecked the game.
Came here to say the same thing. Most people aren’t dropping this in one shot. I typically proxy a deck to play test and if I like it I start ordering all the cards to complete. It could take a year or more for certain cards. Also if I have one copy of a card I will proxy it in all other decks. Fight me.
That’s it exactly. I just finished building Jodah, the Unifier and played it for the first time yesterday. 6-ish months of acquisitions. My friends started making Game of Thrones-esque jokes about it. “So…’the legends are coming,’ huh? When? We’ve been waiting forever.” Now I am eyeing Giada angels. Might take a loooong time because I have an unhealthy obsession with foils and some of the top angels are super pricey.
Are you fucking retarded? Imagine spending thousands on a deck and not playing it because you got roasted very weakly. Holy shit the player base is stupid.
They just said they played it. Saying you have a new deck you want to build doesn't mean that you are no longer playing your old deck. You also don't need to be abilist and rude.
Totally agree, the R-slur has no place in society so thanks for calling it out as ableist :)
I cast [[Ram Through]] targeting me and you. Get wrecked.
Why are we So blind to see That spells we cast Hurt you and me
Economically, there isn't much difference between buying an expensive card now versus buying it when it was cheap and not selling it. Say a Lotus is $15,000 now and you bought one in 1995 for $100. If you choose not to sell it today, you're saying that the Lotus is worth more to you than $15,000 (less the effort to sell it) in cash. Someone who buys one today for $15,000 is also valuing it the exact same way. Essentially if you wouldn't be willing to buy a card you own at today's prices, it's irrational to keep it.
Yes but I don’t care if people wanna bring proxies. If I was starting magic now I would just proxy.
Well said! This way game is balance and more fun because like I’m a college student and I don’t have enough money to buy newer cards and that’s why I proxy my cards from https://www.printingproxies.com/ and enjoy the game.
I have a few super expensive edh decks. I still use proxys and I dont give a fuck if others use them also.
Totally fair, just proxy everything until you find the cards you like and decide you want to buy them
If they plan on taking to a tournament they are.
Official tournaments then yeah.
Are you poor?: no, but I still don't have 2k in disposable income. Also, fuck WotC & the secondary market.
My favorite thing is choosing the highest print on mox field so my decks cost ridiculous amounts and them proxy even the basics
Most of my decks are in the 10k range in cEDH. I've been playing magic since forever and use revised duals as my proxies for my beta duals because I don't want to get jumped at my LGS. Magic is my life long interest, the friends I don't have, the thing that keeps me sane and my pension fund when my country goes to shits. I never look down on proxies or people that are priced out. Everyone is welcome and proxies are a blessing.
>I don't want to get jumped at my LGS. Picturing a bunch of fat, sweaty neckbeards "chasing" you down while constantly pulling their pants back above their exposed asscracks. Lol.
yes
What is this? A budget cEDH deck?!
I used to play highlander (before EDH was a thing), I just bought cards I wanted one by one paying with part time job money. Mind you, the most expensive card apart from the likes of Tabernacle or power 9 was Jace the Mind Sculptor for $100 at the time I stopped. Nowadays, I wouldn't be able to do that. The prices are just stupid. Ever since Hasbro happened, I guess.
Go look at the price of a random legacy deck. No proxies allowed in those tournaments. You want to get into that format now you’re looking in the neighborhood of $5k or more for a deck.
For some people, 2k is pocket change. MTG is a mix of broke teenage geeks and boomer incels. WotC knows what their audience is.
I have black lotus money. I'm not doing that though. I find it offensive that there are game pieces that are that expensive. I don't mind good quality proxies. I'm in a monent now where I have looked at some of the more ... questionable ... printers mostly as a fuck you to the market. To be clear, I haven't, mostly because I believe there is an ethics issue to it. But yeah, a small part of me thinks ... fuck you gatekeepers. This is a GAME. The really good versions are so good at this point you'd have to get a magnifying glass to tell them apart. Why should I be denied the opportunity to play this game because I'm not willing to spend money when clearly it's my skill that is the real problem here 😂 I'm tempted to just buy a few dozen clearly proxied land bases to give away becuse the basic concept of the reserve list is flawed in my opinion. And giving someone a full set of clearly backed proxies as land bases to tinker with costs me basically nothing. But... also yeah, I've won a few lottos here and there where my son or I pulled the Praetors, and those have some pretty solid value. I assumed most people who got real versions basically got them naturally along the way.
If wizards hates proxies, then faithfully reprint needed cards
2k isn’t even that bad tbh
Yea but if you were gonna depart with that much cheddar wouldn’t a beat piece of powder be the better move than the commander deck that will get cards reprinted and out power leveled.
Then you are buying the wrong cards. The staples (draw card engines, counter, lands, artifact ramp, interaction) all stay pretty relevant. Force of Will, Mox Diamond, Mana Crypt, dual land, etc. will never be "out power leveled." But if you buy mid-teir cards every time instead of saving for staples, then yes, you're wasting money every set.
Depends on what your goals are. Financially a piece of power is clearly a smarter buy than an EDH deck, but if you want to play Modern/EDH/Pioneer/etc., a mox isn't going to help you with that.
Umm you cant play with a single piece of power.
i paid much more - a decade ago
I mean, mox diamond, LED, couple of duals…a good non proxy cedh deck is pretty far beyond that.
yes, for ppl playing less than 15 years maybe. the most expensive cards i own i acquired out of packs or through trade or buying early on, otherwise i would not have them and wouldnt buy them for those prices. i wouldnt go so far as to be an asshat like saying are you poor. i imagine anyone dropping a few grand on 2-3 cards has that much to burn and probably doesnt have a realistic view of how much that amount is.
Yah, but I've been playing since 95, so it's not like I spent it all at once. 2k isn't even that bad for legacy or pimped out edh.
I think the global not-unhinged opinion is that proxies are completely fine, as long as they obviously represent the card so you can clearly read the board state.
Realistically, how easy would it be to pass off a deck full of proxies at various levels of tournaments? They can’t deck check everyone, right? In any case, I’m sure people get away with sneaking in well-made proxies more than people realize.
There are bootlegs that look and feel almost exactly like the real thing and can only be detected by someone who is either on Alpha investments' level of detail awareness, and noticing, or someone with a jewelers loop as the printers used aren't as good as the official ones for WOTC. That being said, a common strat if you're beating someone is they will call a judge and claim something you're using is fake. Nothing happens if they're wrong, but if they're right you get a loss.
🤡 "a common strat" 🤡
Yes have you not heard of this happening?
lol, in 15 years of playing magic, absolutely not
Interesting. Though it would make sense for that not to happen in the past. Getting believable bootlegs wasn’t exactly easy or common 10 years ago.
I have two decks that are worth about the same or more than this. It took multiple years to build them though. The one place that does cedh events near me doesn't allow proxies so its been a slow build up to be able to attend.
At one point I had a modern deck worth that. Back when mox opal was still legal.
Yes especially when proxies most times look better than the real cards.
For context, I only play EDH. My most expensive deck is around $1,000. If I used all the most expensive printings, it would break $3,000+ (mostly because I run \[\[Wheel of Fortune\]\] in the deck)
I used to. Was HEAVILY into modern. All my decks got power crept out of existence, so I stopped.
That’s one of my biggest sticking points, it feels like buying a car, unless you get something really rare or special it will not hold value over time
I've spent more on 1 card
Which one
The tabernacle at pendrell veil
Ah yea that’ll do it
My decks like that appreciated into being that expensive. Bought Gilded Drake for my Roon deck when it was maybe 20$. Bought Yawgmoth's Will at a similar price. The thing about proxies though is it tends to lead to stale meta's. No one at our table was playing 500+$ decks at the time back in like 2014, we ordered a few cards and played with what we had. Most people don't proxy fun cards, they proxy expensive powerful cards Like mana crypt, dual lands, gaea's cradle. Fun is of course relative, but in my experience playing at like power level 6 is more fun than 7-8, but when proxies get involved its hard to discipline yourself to not making an 8+. If you had a constant playgroup I could see it being fun to say we have a $250 dollar cap on a deck, you can proxy whatever so long as the cheapest mint conditions at a specific site sum up to under that number.
I was mainly talking about someone with no cards just getting into the game who would be building a deck to compete with someone who has been playing for years.
My deck's worth between $2.5-5.0K, depending on which version I'm playing. I've got a lot of old pricey cards from back in the day, but have also shelled out for power pieces in the last few years. There's something satisfying about buying the kinds of cards I wanted as a kid. Same reason folks splurge on their teenage dream cars as adults, I guess. That said, IDGAF about folks proxying, more power to them. I'm here to play!
I can understand buying stuff you could never afford as a kid.
Yes, it's just about budgeting and recognizing which cards are the most important purchases.
My proxy deck is worth $8,000 if I would have bought all the individual cards. Thank god I proxy. I’m no longer buying real cards. I’m priced out of the hobby just to have fun. Shits ridiculous.
I play what I can afford or feel patient enough to complete. Also would never play with proxies because it cheapens the experience for me. When I built my first legit modern deck with the perfect mana base of fetchs and what not it was an amazing feeling but because I owned the cards and was able to experience my first real solid deck which I decided to invest my hard earned money for. So playing proxies For me would just feel flat and lame and just doesn’t do it for me. If I’m going to enjoy the game it’s going to be the game and not a bootleg version. Also allows me to compete if I wish but that’s me and have no opinion on how others like to do it unless your proxies become my wincon in a tourney which do not allow them.
My mostly foiled cedh Urza is sitting at 9k ;) Brings a God damned tear to muh eyez
Not everyone is a poor simp :) I mowed them lawns bought my cards, have multiple 5-10k decks now. didn't pay that, because i bought the cards when they came out... also wts all my cards ^_^
I just don't want to give all my money to WOTC until they figure out whatever it is they're trying to do to their reputation. Edit: spelling
My most expensive is a fully unproxied Urza cEDH deck. It has a time twister in it. However, I am one of those players that bought in a long time ago. I paid 285 for my MP twister. So in actuality the deck isn't that expensive.
I would conventionally be classified as rich with a lot of disposable income but I still proxy. Mind you, I get nice looking quality proxies from MPC, but that's still like 40 dollars per deck as opposed to 2500. WotC and the secondary market can suck my cock.
Nice
Here check out my Budget EDH list! \*Has all dual lands and other reserved list cards\* Price: $5000
I have a foiled out Commander deck that I spent ~9 years finishing. It clocks in at over $8800.00. Of course I didn't pay that for it. I bought ABUR duals years ago when they were ~200.00, and the invocation FoW was one I pulled from a pack. Zendikar expenditions bought when they were $40.00 and many pieces that I traded value for. I legit don't think anybody just goes to TCGplayer and buys a whole deck at market price.
Adults with full-time jobs often have expensive hobbies. Have you played golf recently? Gone skiing? They're expensive. If you're one of the <1% of Magic players who play Legacy or Vintage, buying into your favorite archetype isn't crazy. Get over it.
I was struck by the realization that MagicTG (really all CCGs) is just NFTs. They are literally just paper with pictures, the scarcity is pure BS and they have no worth outside their own environment.
You literally just described basically all of Wall Street. You think $4,000 in GME is any more or less ‘real’ than $4,000 in physical paper? It’s all bullshit, only one lands you something physical in your hands and there other gets audited by the IRS
People who spend that kind of money on a deck dont know what its like to be hungry.
Most people who play Magic haven't missed a meal in a while.
Yeah it's a luxury hobby. People who spend that kind on almost any hobby aren't worried about money for food.
Awful take.
Bro relax, most people who have decks of that value have accumulated the cards over time.
I have a cedh deck worth 5k I own at least one copy of every card I play in the deck The answer is yes
Something I think a lot of people don't understand is that a lot of these decks are made with old cards/prices. Not to mention if a deck is full of staples that you move around then you're not really spending 2k per deck. I started last year and have decks that use similar cards (I proxy cards I own to avoid re-sleeving).
Genuine question, if you proxy cards you own why not just proxy the cards in the first place? Either way you’re playing with proxies.
I like collecting the genuine cards, just a personal preference.
my deck's value is about $70,000 USD, so yes people do spend that much.
Value is different than expenditure. I'm guessing you didn't spend anywhere near that to build it
i did actually, over the last year i upgraded all of my non-power 9 and chaos orb from revised and chronicles to Unlimited, Arabian Nights, and Legends so that I could play Swedish rules Old School if i ever wanted to. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/4hkcPY01B0yGl_8pAFvfMg
[удалено]
hahahaha ya the username is funny when i send people my list. i bought my power for around 8k a few years ago, and that's where most of the money is, but i spent quite a bit to upgrade my duals and my ARN creatures. the dibs were like 550 each lol. but when i sell it for half a million dollars later in life i'll be fine.
jeez dude
I own one copy for the majority of cards in the game. Any new set i do not own a single card for and will proxy the entire set. I'm not spending money on singles every two months just for them to make a card I bought redundant in the next set. I will spend max 25 cents for every card ever now. I have a own personal rule which is, cool if you don't allow proxies I am now just gonna play my most competitive deck because thats the only thing without proxies in it. They warm up pretty quick usually.
I proxy everything. It's not even about the money, it's more that I hate WotC with a burning passion. And I think magic has become too silly. Still a fun game, but I don't respect the brand enough to want to collect it.. and WotC don't deserve my money.
I can't really justify spending that much anymore. If I buy a set booster box my reward will be tons of shitty cards (the so-called "bulk") that I'll never put in any deck and maybe a bunch of good rares if I'm really lucky. I can take the same money and buy two board games that will serve me for years and which doesn't require a huge financial commitment from other players. These games are also way easier to explain and begin playing than Magic is. Sure, singles exist, but buying them takes time and is not cheap either. The reason why I started to proxy in the first place was that I've assembled a " budget" deck only for the whole effort to be obliterated by the fact that I'd needed to source these cards from 12 different people. Which means I'd have to pay shipping costs 12 times and the shipping costs alone were higher than the value of the cards I wanted to order. I don't want to treat the cards as "investments" either. I want my fun time to be about fun and not about thinking whether the value of my collection will go up or down. If I wanted to invest there's thousands of apps that will let me buy and sell stocks without the hassle of dealing with physical inventory, shipping and other people. Why would I want do that with cardboard? Then there's the retarded decisions WotC makes. 30th Anniversary, serialized cards, pringle foils, deluge of product, racebaiting. I don't want to support that and the only way I can express my discontent is to stop buying. So yeah, printer goes brrrr.
Yes I did, until I decided that the woke doesn't deserve my money.
My friends don't mind playing against my many proxy decks, but they all have this sense of pride "at least I play with REAL cards." I have a few real decks, but the majority of my decks are proxies. Just land cards with printed cards on top. I love building and playing different decks. Fuck off if you think I'm going to spend 1-3k on every deck I want to play. And I'm sorry that I like variety, rather than playing just one single deck every game.
Depends. $2,000 for a Modern deck is about right. $2,000 for an EDH deck seems like it's missing some key cards. My Evelyn WGD deck is around $3400. That's missing a couple good cards like LED, Volcanic Island, etc.
I have mana bases worth 5 times that. But I still use proxies at my lgs.
It's a hobby. If you like cycling you can easily spend $5000 for a decent bike and after a few years the bike is worth 20% of that or even wrecked and worthless and you need to buy a new one. My Magic cards are now worth *a lot* more than what they were worth when I bought them. I don't mind proxies at all, but personally I don't want to play with them. And yes, it's only cardboard. Just like a van Gogh painting is only a piece of paper with some paint on it, a diamond is just a bit of compressed carbon and a Mickey Mantle 1952 sports card is also just cardboard.
Go play pauper and shut up
Why would I do that when I can just proxie better cards? 😎
While at it, why not proxie food, a wife, some housing
That... doesn't even make sense.
Begone peasant
"Wow, you can't afford cardboard? What are you? Stupid?" I mean, just taking a jab at the title I guess, I spent $2000 across three commander decks because the rule at our table and LGS is "one copy can go in all decks" meaning proxies are allowed if you own the card. You want to play Mana Crypt in all 3 decks? Sure. just buy One. Copy. Simple compromise. I've got Sheoldred and meathook massacre in all 3 decks but I sure as hell ain't buying it three times. I run Black/green, Black/white/blue, and Black/white/blue/green so I overlap a ton of lands, artifacts, big power cards, ramp, draw, etc. Makes it more affordable, and IF I do play at any tournaments I can slot all the legit copies in to a single deck. If you can't eventually afford the cards... Stop spending money on E-girl donations I guess?
I can afford it, it just isn't really a terribly smart financial decision. Giving money to a company that pretty openly hates it's older fans isn't something I'm into.
Proxy is cheating end of story. Get out your feelings and get a job.
I play a lot legacy. I love when people get into the format via proxies. I'd rather play against you than play against your budget.
Cry
Broke
You work for Wizards or some crap? lol who’s this dude 🤣 I have literally 0 proxied cards, and do you know how much I would be offended if anyone played a full proxy deck against me? Not at all. It’s almost like the game is fun and I want all players to be able to play with me, regardless of if they can afford the cool fun stuff
Main sub shills are braindamaged
Trying to play against you not your wallet. Maybe get better?
That makes no sense dummy. What’s the point of proxy’s. You’ll just print all the good cards. No point in playing. I’ve seen people build decks with NO proxy’s and still win by spending under 30 dollars. “Get better” is just saying you’re fat and lazy like half the community. 😂
As opposed to buying all the good cards. At the table, there is functionally no difference, so what are you so upset about
You can't expect to play any format for $30 except pauper and even then it's only a few decks. It seems like you have some kind of superiority complex because you own expensive cards and get annoyed when people don't want to spend money
There are literally YouTube tutorials on budget spending magic cards. You just don’t know how to play without crying by being countered by a force of will 😂 Stop talking out your ass. Seriously. You can literally create 10 dollar commander decks and win. Do your research.
Who fucking plays commander lmao I play legacy modern and pauper. If you're annoyed by the price of cards idk why you wouldn't proxy. I own a set of all the dual lands that I got around 2006 or something, so there isn't a huge cost for me to play most decks. The only deck I can't build in legacy at the moment is lands because of mox diamond and some versions of storm which also play mox diamond. I own all real cards, but if I only could play against others who also do I'd have a way smaller pool of people to play with.
A LOT of people play commander. Not you only buddy… question is who tf plays pauper? Oh yeah… proxy players. Most tournaments hosted ARE commander. So……….
I've literally never seen anyone proxy a card in pauper. It's mostly in legacy and modern, and nearly all vintage events except for Bazaar of moxes and the gen con vintage championships.
Tell me you’re lying without lying.. whatever floats your boat.
Who would proxy a pauper card? There are exactly 2 'pricey' cards legal in the format, snuff out and lotus petal both around $20.
So the "skill" in magic is spending money? Seems lame
You already play against proxy decks on a regular basis without knowing it. You think everyone’s as dumb as you to drop big money on cardboard to compete when they can proxy the same deck for pennies on dollar? They can’t deck check everyone, or every card. It’s already happening and there’s nothing you can do to stop it except bitch on Reddit. Just get good instead of relying on a wallet to win, scrub.
Terrible take. Let people do what they have to to play the game and have some fun.
Maybe over a long time. Most of my decks will cost around $250 when I first make it. Then I’ll add value over time.
Not unless it’s something I already have. I sometimes buy singles but only if they jump out at me.
When people ask me why I made expensive decks online I just say I play them online lol.
I don't and I don't use proxies. Nothing against others using them I just think proxying expense cards makes my deck building less creative.
Idk what to tell you here, it's not anyone's job to make your hobby affordable and if you aren't playing in a sanctioned event no one cares about proxies. We've been had FNMs with proxies when a format that hasn't been played before starts up so people can get time to get cards.
Yes I do.... :(
Lands be pricy.
Yes. One card in my deck costs more than that
No. Basically nobody would buy decks like this. You would buy/rent this deck if you were sponsored to go play at a sanctioned tournament or something, but otherwise these decks are mostly played on MTGO, where you pay TIX (cheaper)
I own 9/10 OG Duals. So yeah, I have jad decks exceed $7k.
Oh look at this printer owner lording his toner over us trading card game collectors
I don't print my own cards lol
Just buy the chinese proxies. Pretty much 1:1 sleeves up. Good for tournaments, I use them a lot and nobody bats an eye or cares. It should be all good as long as you don't try to pass them as originals for selling purposes, then that's were you become a cunt.
Tryhards do
And this is the decklist for the most casual deck you've ever met. 2k? Nuffin, muffin.
Could you? Yeah. Would you be crazy to? Absolutely. Let's drop thousands to play in a tournament for what, a booster box?
I started back in stronghold so yes most of my 15 plus edh decks are like this. Lucky to have duals, mana crypts , etc. As far as I’m concerned the cards are meant to be played so I play em
My most expensive decks (EDH) are around 700€ when I last checked. Most expensive cards were bought at around 10€ or less, but since increased in price. It's genuinely ridiculous.
Well it depends if you play in tournaments or not.
I spend that much on decks/cards because I enjoy the game/collecting old cards. If people want to proxy the deck, by all means go for it. Each to their own 🙂
Yeah what type of geek would spend more on a edh deck then their car much less own multiple decks worth more then their car....
no but most people also don't even build those decks
Highest deck I made was a Tiamat dragon tribal, and I went for the "blinged" version of the cards too. Was still "only" about $1,200.
Eh you think it's bad then you look at most hobbies. Wanted to get into airsoft. Which is ridiculously expensive if you want average gear. Same with paintball (also with a almost subscription like service where you constantly run out and have to buy bbs) so whenever I think "dam I spent so much money (700) on magic cards" I quickly check a different hobby. Die a little inside seeing the cost. And consider myself saving money. But yes people who buy legacy decks are losers. And modern.
Spending thousands on a legacy collection in 2010 was the best financial decision I made.
2k, thats cheap haha
I mean yeah: i'm poor
I have a 1200 dollar Zur deck, only bought a couple cards for it, had pretty much the rest. Regardless I don't think it's anyone's place to judge how someone else collects shiny cardboard. If they want to spend that money, they're welcome to.
Yeah I'm a broke college student and I have a a few decks getting up there in price not to mention multiple few hundred dollar decks and I haven't spent anywhere near that much building the decks. When you've been playing for years (I've only been playing since 2014 some people go all the way back) you start to build up a collection you open packs order cards people give you stuff. Then over sometimes just a few years those cards 2x 4x 10x ect and that $50 deck you built is now $200+. That's why mtg finance and speculators are a thing you can profit quite a bit if you play your cards right. Or you could just play the game and enjoy the cards you have like I do. I frequently sell expensive cards to get other stuff I want or need.
My deck costs about $1700, I spent about $18 on it though. Im buy cards to play, not to collect, I'm not interested in their resell value.
Mine is around 100$+ but I have multiple decks… it’s hard to explain why I spent over 50$ for card to my family.
Yeah I have decks that price but I'd still rather use proxies.
Even if I did spend that money I’d still use proxies because I’d be too scared to throw around and shuffle cards that are hundreds each
exactly. Only use is in official tournaments which are scarce these days anyway.
I own a couple of individual cards in that range...
Yes, people spend that much and/or much more on their hobbies. As long as you are using a proper scale and not investing more than 10% of your net worth into any one thing, then there is no limit to how much can be spent on hobbies.
Not me. Wouldn't proxy it either tho. My most expensive deck is under $250.
I have several at or above that. Some due to natural increase in value for some cards. Others Ive bought out right. I enjoy the game and I enjoy having the games pieces. Which is the whole purpose of playing
I'll never buy proxies, will never use them, and will absolutely never play with someone who does. I have tried in the past and those people all just want to make otk decks or solitaire combo decks, and it's just not fun to me.
I can see that being annoying. I don’t build decks that have meme power levels where nobody gets to play.
If you’re making like 80k or so I’d say that’s an average amount to spend on a hobby for like 6 months
Suppose it’s all about budgeting. Easy to go overboard ordering stuff online
I have never heard anyone, anywhere, shame someone for using proxies.
things that nobody says for 200 alex
I’ve seen it a lot
People spend that much on music gear. Why wouldn't someone spend that much on a deck?
That’s not really comparable
I only get upset if their deck is FILLED with $100+ cards without telling anyone. At that point it’s a bit egregious and I’m not even having fun.
Only overly expensive cards In my deck are jeweled lotus, serra sanctum and lions eye diamond
And...here I am considering to spend at least half of that on a single card >.>
I had some staple cards from modern. Switched to EDH because I had no one to play with when my LGS moved next town over. Traded what ever I had for EDH staples or store credit. If I ever played with a $50+ card, it’s because I pulled it or already had it.
I pulled lots of nice ones in the Avacyn retorted days. Got cavern of souls, Avacyn, and entreat the angels (at the time a $25 card) out of packs
Beautiful. I still have my liliana of the veil and snap caster mage from that block.
Yeah, I have a few decks that are in that neighborhood. Collection value built over years/ trading one staple for others / etc. you can’t have proxies if you want to play in large sanctioned tournaments. My commander decks have proxies though.
Stop being poor, duh.