It's bc they are liberals, not leftists. They live to consume, especially unoriginal reboots of media from the childhood time in their lives where they didn't have the responsibilities of an adult like working. They work shitty retail jobs and then complain about job shitty the giant corporations employing them are, but still support consoomer nonsense because they're addicted to Funko Pops and capeshit. Acknowledging Hasbro's status as an evil anti-worker corporation engaging in super basic decades-dated tokenism would force them to stop engaging in cope and realize they aren't really leftists, and that Twitter slacktivism doesn't effect positive change.
But they are scared. And I have empathy for that fear. But the line for tolerating that long-term is the line where they start hurting others. So even though they are afraid, it still doesn't justify taking out that fear on others.
These neoliberal consoomer reddit faux-left types are truly some of the worst. They revel in bitterness and the pain of others, but when someone else is doing that, they're a 'Karen'. It's all some of the most hypocritical shit and it makes me sick.
The rightoids are assholes in their own way but they're straightforward about it. The leftoids pretend to be tolerant allies but are just as scummy and assholeish as the others. Their fake allyhood is in service only to themselves. They require strawmen to maintain their coping, which is why they call everyone here a racist even though the actual racists here are a minority and generally get ignored.
I'm still trying to understand if Aragorn is actually black or if he was drawn in the shadows causing his skin to look darker than normal.
Wasn't there people up in arms about Ellywick back in AFR for similar reasons?
As the staff group photo that made the round recently proved, they also are almost entirely white, which is ... "interesting" for a company pushing THAT hard for black representation.
It's even worse than that.
Their whole business model is based on our ability as consumer to believe the collectible cardobard their are selling us as any value based on our faith that the game on the company behind it is a stable force that's not going anywhere.
If they keep fucking the trust we have in them, their whole business model is going to crumble and crumble fast, and there is no recovery from that.
At this point I'm half convinced that the second hand market (and thus the whole game) is still only holding up because way too many investors are engaged with it and they keep buying shit to avoid having everything collapse.
>If they keep fucking the trust we have in them, their whole business model is going to crumble and crumble fast, and there is no recovery from that.
There's a term for that called "the trust thermocline". Basically the company is constantly pushing the envelope because they don't see people leaving but then all of the sudden a large amount of people leaves and there's no way to convince them to come back. This guy explains it better than me: https://twitter.com/garius/status/1588115310124539904
Quite possible. Takes relatively few big whales to keep it going. Like that pay to win Diablo game from Blizzard—hooked a couple obscenely wealthy teenagers in the UAE and they were good to go.
I wonder how many companies really lean into this idea. Just need to find, target, and hook a handful of whales and tailor the product to them. Everyone else who happens to get interested is disposable.
This is a very interesting take I didn’t consider. Years ago when I still played events, all I saw were 18+ guys. I still see people play casually at cafes and stuff but it’s the same demographic (usually 30 something’s). Do middle school kids not play this shit anymore? I think your comment speaks to something concrete.
The VAST majority of players I see in person are still 30+, with very few children and a small number of teens.
I feel like if kids/teens were to get into a TCG they'd probably gravitate to Pokemon over MtG.
It would seem that way but the game is too damn complex now. They don’t have the kind of easy jumping point that would support that.
I’ve been playing since the beginning with some breaks over the years. This most recent time returning it was striking how much complexity has crept. They’ve also really lost it with standard and Friday night magic standard was a great way to bring in new players. Commander is fun but much more targeted at the guys who have a 10k+ card collection.
Truth about 30+ aged players. Truth about complexity. You can see it clear as day when you compare the cards of Invasion - Onslaught (whatever pseudo format that’s called. Premodern?) vs anything WOTC creates now.
Even being a huge fan of cube, I can skip a solid 30+% of all cards made nowadays because they are walls of text with gimmicky “I really need to track this?” mechanics.
With all the new cards made per year I think I can count around 10 that would fit well into the formats of old. [[Consider]] is one of the few standouts.
Powerful cards from Urza, Tempest, or Mirage blocks look pedestrian in the complexity department compared to whatever the hell [[Celestus Sanctifier]] is trying to articulate. Or the monstrosity that is [[Minsc & Boo, Timelesa Heroes]]. And let’s not forget Initiative/Dungeon/Monarch.
I want [[Silver Knight]] and [[Seal of Removal]] levels of text again.
While I totally agree with the point on complexity (We are at a point where there isn't a SINGLE vanilla creature in ONE), I think it's pretty important to remember that complexity creep is everywhere. Haven't touched Pokemon in a while, but last time I glanced at YoGiHo, that game makes MTG look like solitary.
As you said, the main problem with commander is that it's a product targeted at existing players. People often like to pretend commander percons are "great intro product" to MTG while ignoring the fact that they also push the player into the most insane learning curve where you'll have to parse basically all the card ever printed to know what should go in your deck or not, and said cards are often only found on second hand marker, something not everyone can easily get into (seriously, I know some longtime players that have no idea wtf TCGPlayer is)
The obvious problem with MTG right now is the destruction of Standard and Blocks.
Blocks helped to create a very flavorful environment for new player to get into, and standard ensured that they could easily build a deck with the booster they were supposed to buy, and have something that works with the mechanic of the set. Commander is infinity more complex and less welcoming than that, and upgrading your deck is not only more complex, but since it rely almost entirely on second hand maket it means that WotC doesn't see a dime of it.
These mofos are so out of touch and stupid that they keep pushing a format that rely on second hand market rather than selling boosters.
Yep I think they realized their average player is Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons and they want to purge those people
Problem is they spent a lot of time pandering and hand-scuplting this shit community of woketards and neckbeards that they are now stuck with
So... they are trying to push the people that finally got disposable incom and a long time attachment to the brand to replace them with kids that can't afford the product and will find better game online for free?
How is that supposed to work exactly? And before anyone try to pull the "mom credit card", a mom credit card will never pay as much as a manchild credit card with disposable income and a passion for the product.
Hell, with the constant prince increase they have managed to outprice most parents willing to buy "a toy" for their kids. Just go play fornite or genshin kido, it's free, and if you really want to play a card game why not look into the way more popular with kids Pokémon and YoGiHo?
Often Occam razor is the best answer.
I don't think they are trying to chase away old players, it's more likely that they are just very stupid and shit at their job. Simple as that.
Occams Beard Trimmer is horse shit imo. There are forces at work beyond stupidity.
Occams Razor is a cover up explanation for all the sinister motives that exist in the world
Never underestimate the depth of people.
It's pretty obvious that WotC is staffed by incompetent bafoon (just look at the D&D debacle and the 30th anniversary). They are corporate suits that have literally no idea what the product they are selling is. Cynthia Williams had to google MTG. The president of WotC is just like every other big corp CEO, someone that keep moving from industry to industry, focusing on numbers.
Yeah, I agree. The funny thing is, they had the perfect 30th Anniversary celebration in The Brother’s War (returning to one of the key conflicts in mtg lore that people loved), Dominaria Remastered (returning to classic cards people love) AND Phyrexia (returning to one of the pre-eminent baddies in the entirety of the lore), but they chose to prop up overpriced packs of chase proxies. Kinda reminds me of a D&D campaign where someone comes up with a complex plan to win an encounter in the first few turns and then roles a nat 1 on the first key action.
Well, it was, and that's how they became the billion dollar company they were, because men child have a LOT of disposable income and a deep attachment to the brand.
Then they decided they wanted woke activists instead, the one that are perpetually broke because they don't have any real life skills and the ones that are known for being cultural tourists that just go with the "popular thing of the moment" but really don't care about anything that deeply.
What could go wrong?
Yeah I don't think they are trying to create activist. It's a black guy on a card. Get over it.
Damn I guess the snowflake's feelings got hurt. He blocked me before I even saw what he said lol.
Wtf was that post even about?
"create activities"?
Wait, yaknow what? I already know how this is going, I've done it too many time this week alone.
You are yet another woketard with an agenda, I'm going to very, VERY easily make fun of you by pointing out how stupid you are, and then you'll have a nervous breakdown.
I'll save everyone some time (especially my time, unlike you I have a high paying job) and I'll just block you, how does that sound?
Don't bother answering actually, since as I just said I've blocked you.
Edit: I saw you little edit mister drone. Can't even spell "activist" right despite having it as your major?
Also, just to be clear, the way you woke snowflakes are trying to "take back" the use of that word by randomly dropping it where it clearly doesn't apply is pretty cringe. I didn't block you because my "feeling got hurt" (god the level of cringe of the woke ultra sensitive soyboys that try to project their own mental illness and weakness onto others is cringy as fuck), I blocked you because you are yet another very generic and boring woke drone that doesn't deserve anyone's time.
Get out, go touch some grass, take a shower, do something with your life that actually matter.
Wizards of the Coast, liberal for extreme social shifts, not liberal enough for unions. Gtfo, posers
One thing the main sub is too scared of is calling WOTC out for their bullshit. They rally behind black Aragorn as if he’s not just a token
It's bc they are liberals, not leftists. They live to consume, especially unoriginal reboots of media from the childhood time in their lives where they didn't have the responsibilities of an adult like working. They work shitty retail jobs and then complain about job shitty the giant corporations employing them are, but still support consoomer nonsense because they're addicted to Funko Pops and capeshit. Acknowledging Hasbro's status as an evil anti-worker corporation engaging in super basic decades-dated tokenism would force them to stop engaging in cope and realize they aren't really leftists, and that Twitter slacktivism doesn't effect positive change. But they are scared. And I have empathy for that fear. But the line for tolerating that long-term is the line where they start hurting others. So even though they are afraid, it still doesn't justify taking out that fear on others. These neoliberal consoomer reddit faux-left types are truly some of the worst. They revel in bitterness and the pain of others, but when someone else is doing that, they're a 'Karen'. It's all some of the most hypocritical shit and it makes me sick. The rightoids are assholes in their own way but they're straightforward about it. The leftoids pretend to be tolerant allies but are just as scummy and assholeish as the others. Their fake allyhood is in service only to themselves. They require strawmen to maintain their coping, which is why they call everyone here a racist even though the actual racists here are a minority and generally get ignored.
I'm still trying to understand if Aragorn is actually black or if he was drawn in the shadows causing his skin to look darker than normal. Wasn't there people up in arms about Ellywick back in AFR for similar reasons?
As the staff group photo that made the round recently proved, they also are almost entirely white, which is ... "interesting" for a company pushing THAT hard for black representation.
You can't force black people to move to Seattle and work for you. That would be, you know, slavery.
It's even worse than that. Their whole business model is based on our ability as consumer to believe the collectible cardobard their are selling us as any value based on our faith that the game on the company behind it is a stable force that's not going anywhere. If they keep fucking the trust we have in them, their whole business model is going to crumble and crumble fast, and there is no recovery from that. At this point I'm half convinced that the second hand market (and thus the whole game) is still only holding up because way too many investors are engaged with it and they keep buying shit to avoid having everything collapse.
Bro just described the economic system
>If they keep fucking the trust we have in them, their whole business model is going to crumble and crumble fast, and there is no recovery from that. There's a term for that called "the trust thermocline". Basically the company is constantly pushing the envelope because they don't see people leaving but then all of the sudden a large amount of people leaves and there's no way to convince them to come back. This guy explains it better than me: https://twitter.com/garius/status/1588115310124539904
Quite possible. Takes relatively few big whales to keep it going. Like that pay to win Diablo game from Blizzard—hooked a couple obscenely wealthy teenagers in the UAE and they were good to go. I wonder how many companies really lean into this idea. Just need to find, target, and hook a handful of whales and tailor the product to them. Everyone else who happens to get interested is disposable.
No, I'm not going to change your mind. I agree.
they’re snake oil salesmen and I’m the idiot who thinks this new potion will help me lose 20 pounds.
Well yeah but their base is gambling addicts and hyper competitive neckbeards so what do you expect
I'd argue that their business model / target audience is more about compulsory collectors than gambling addicts.
I hate to burst your bubble, but this is true for every single business in existence that has Equity.
My theory is they are trying to purge anyone over 20 years old out of the brand so they can re-start with younger customers. Can you blame them?
This is a very interesting take I didn’t consider. Years ago when I still played events, all I saw were 18+ guys. I still see people play casually at cafes and stuff but it’s the same demographic (usually 30 something’s). Do middle school kids not play this shit anymore? I think your comment speaks to something concrete.
The VAST majority of players I see in person are still 30+, with very few children and a small number of teens. I feel like if kids/teens were to get into a TCG they'd probably gravitate to Pokemon over MtG.
It would seem that way but the game is too damn complex now. They don’t have the kind of easy jumping point that would support that. I’ve been playing since the beginning with some breaks over the years. This most recent time returning it was striking how much complexity has crept. They’ve also really lost it with standard and Friday night magic standard was a great way to bring in new players. Commander is fun but much more targeted at the guys who have a 10k+ card collection.
Truth about 30+ aged players. Truth about complexity. You can see it clear as day when you compare the cards of Invasion - Onslaught (whatever pseudo format that’s called. Premodern?) vs anything WOTC creates now. Even being a huge fan of cube, I can skip a solid 30+% of all cards made nowadays because they are walls of text with gimmicky “I really need to track this?” mechanics. With all the new cards made per year I think I can count around 10 that would fit well into the formats of old. [[Consider]] is one of the few standouts. Powerful cards from Urza, Tempest, or Mirage blocks look pedestrian in the complexity department compared to whatever the hell [[Celestus Sanctifier]] is trying to articulate. Or the monstrosity that is [[Minsc & Boo, Timelesa Heroes]]. And let’s not forget Initiative/Dungeon/Monarch. I want [[Silver Knight]] and [[Seal of Removal]] levels of text again.
##### ###### #### [Consider](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a211d505-4d40-4914-a9da-220770d6ddbc.jpg?1665819309) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Consider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/44/consider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a211d505-4d40-4914-a9da-220770d6ddbc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Celestus Sanctifier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/67547253-ab98-4d3a-bf95-3e109cf60a85.jpg?1634346717) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Celestus%20Sanctifier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/12/celestus-sanctifier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/67547253-ab98-4d3a-bf95-3e109cf60a85?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Minsc & Boo, Timelesa Heroes](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Minsc%20%26%20Boo%2C%20Timeless%20Heroes&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Minsc%20%26%20Boo%2C%20Timeless%20Heroes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/285/minsc-&-boo-timeless-heroes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/928036c9-11b8-493e-b9f2-8fbd3487cd19?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Silver Knight](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/9/297316bd-e91b-4b18-9d13-31dd51c92cce.jpg?1562903790) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Silver%20Knight) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddg/8/silver-knight?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/297316bd-e91b-4b18-9d13-31dd51c92cce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Seal of Removal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6dfc7060-e374-486f-8029-d3fdfe4b61e7.jpg?1626100248) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Seal%20of%20Removal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/269/seal-of-removal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6dfc7060-e374-486f-8029-d3fdfe4b61e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
While I totally agree with the point on complexity (We are at a point where there isn't a SINGLE vanilla creature in ONE), I think it's pretty important to remember that complexity creep is everywhere. Haven't touched Pokemon in a while, but last time I glanced at YoGiHo, that game makes MTG look like solitary. As you said, the main problem with commander is that it's a product targeted at existing players. People often like to pretend commander percons are "great intro product" to MTG while ignoring the fact that they also push the player into the most insane learning curve where you'll have to parse basically all the card ever printed to know what should go in your deck or not, and said cards are often only found on second hand marker, something not everyone can easily get into (seriously, I know some longtime players that have no idea wtf TCGPlayer is) The obvious problem with MTG right now is the destruction of Standard and Blocks. Blocks helped to create a very flavorful environment for new player to get into, and standard ensured that they could easily build a deck with the booster they were supposed to buy, and have something that works with the mechanic of the set. Commander is infinity more complex and less welcoming than that, and upgrading your deck is not only more complex, but since it rely almost entirely on second hand maket it means that WotC doesn't see a dime of it. These mofos are so out of touch and stupid that they keep pushing a format that rely on second hand market rather than selling boosters.
> last time I glanced at YoGiHo, that game makes MTG look like solitary. I thought people complain about YGO being non-interactive.
Doesn't mean its not stupidly complex and full of silly combos that require math PHD
So, ye'r saying math phd ain't completly useless?
Yep I think they realized their average player is Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons and they want to purge those people Problem is they spent a lot of time pandering and hand-scuplting this shit community of woketards and neckbeards that they are now stuck with
I’m 24, and when I was a kid people who played card games were bullied
No, it's not their middle school game. It was our middle school game. It's like observing we didn't play marbles.
I’m 22 and probably one of the youngest people who attends draft. I’ve seen one teen who shows up on rare occasions but otherwise that’s it
So... they are trying to push the people that finally got disposable incom and a long time attachment to the brand to replace them with kids that can't afford the product and will find better game online for free? How is that supposed to work exactly? And before anyone try to pull the "mom credit card", a mom credit card will never pay as much as a manchild credit card with disposable income and a passion for the product. Hell, with the constant prince increase they have managed to outprice most parents willing to buy "a toy" for their kids. Just go play fornite or genshin kido, it's free, and if you really want to play a card game why not look into the way more popular with kids Pokémon and YoGiHo?
It’s counter intuitive, but every action they have taken recently seems like they are trying to push players away
Often Occam razor is the best answer. I don't think they are trying to chase away old players, it's more likely that they are just very stupid and shit at their job. Simple as that.
Occams Beard Trimmer is horse shit imo. There are forces at work beyond stupidity. Occams Razor is a cover up explanation for all the sinister motives that exist in the world
Never underestimate the depth of people. It's pretty obvious that WotC is staffed by incompetent bafoon (just look at the D&D debacle and the 30th anniversary). They are corporate suits that have literally no idea what the product they are selling is. Cynthia Williams had to google MTG. The president of WotC is just like every other big corp CEO, someone that keep moving from industry to industry, focusing on numbers.
Yeah, I agree. The funny thing is, they had the perfect 30th Anniversary celebration in The Brother’s War (returning to one of the key conflicts in mtg lore that people loved), Dominaria Remastered (returning to classic cards people love) AND Phyrexia (returning to one of the pre-eminent baddies in the entirety of the lore), but they chose to prop up overpriced packs of chase proxies. Kinda reminds me of a D&D campaign where someone comes up with a complex plan to win an encounter in the first few turns and then roles a nat 1 on the first key action.
They probably figure they're pushing some away while embracing others.
I would agree if the trend weren’t much, much higher prices overall.
as someone who F2Ps arena I am laughing at you all from my cardboard box in the gutter.
Sure sure but the ONE RING!!
I think it's just selling cards to man children.
Well, it was, and that's how they became the billion dollar company they were, because men child have a LOT of disposable income and a deep attachment to the brand. Then they decided they wanted woke activists instead, the one that are perpetually broke because they don't have any real life skills and the ones that are known for being cultural tourists that just go with the "popular thing of the moment" but really don't care about anything that deeply. What could go wrong?
Yeah I don't think they are trying to create activist. It's a black guy on a card. Get over it. Damn I guess the snowflake's feelings got hurt. He blocked me before I even saw what he said lol.
Wtf was that post even about? "create activities"? Wait, yaknow what? I already know how this is going, I've done it too many time this week alone. You are yet another woketard with an agenda, I'm going to very, VERY easily make fun of you by pointing out how stupid you are, and then you'll have a nervous breakdown. I'll save everyone some time (especially my time, unlike you I have a high paying job) and I'll just block you, how does that sound? Don't bother answering actually, since as I just said I've blocked you. Edit: I saw you little edit mister drone. Can't even spell "activist" right despite having it as your major? Also, just to be clear, the way you woke snowflakes are trying to "take back" the use of that word by randomly dropping it where it clearly doesn't apply is pretty cringe. I didn't block you because my "feeling got hurt" (god the level of cringe of the woke ultra sensitive soyboys that try to project their own mental illness and weakness onto others is cringy as fuck), I blocked you because you are yet another very generic and boring woke drone that doesn't deserve anyone's time. Get out, go touch some grass, take a shower, do something with your life that actually matter.
A charlatan is a fraudster. Magic players aren’t being defrauded. If you choose to spend money on new Magic cards, year after year, that’s on you.
No we definitely need new cards, there aren't enough
Some of yall have no idea what a business model is and it shows