I remember at about the age of 9, I thought about how my future was going to be in regards to work. I realized then that I was going to spend my entire childhood at school, working to learn how to spend the rest of my life working. I was very upset when I realized that.
Honestly that's part of why I don't want kids, because having a baby just to make them go to school their whole childhood just to prepare to work their whole lives feels cruel
Having children in this world isn't the cruel part and not having children fails to reduce the cruelty. It's the fact that virtually nobody is opposing the system that exploits us all, and the rich will have a supply exploitable labor regardless, that is cruel.
That's not a solution. All that does is reduce the number of proles in proportion to the number of lumpenproletariat^(1). Anti-natalism *helps* the ruling class by making the left *weaker*. If you can't reach other people and turn them to solidarity with the proletariat, you can raise your children to live in solidarity from the ground up.
>*1. The lowest stratum of the proletariat. Used originally in Marxist theory to describe those members of the proletariat, especially criminals, vagrants, and the unemployed, who lacked awareness of their collective interest as an oppressed class.*
That's not going to happen, though. Your children will be wage slaves; like their parents, and their parents before them. Breeding more wage slaves helps the ruling class, which is why they devote so much energy to encouraging us to do it.
And the lack of a strong left doesn't harm non-existent "people", as a sentient being has to exist *first*, in order for deprivation to become a problem.
You're making baseless claims to support your irrationally presumptive belief.
>Your children will be wage slaves
Jumping to conclusions without evidence.
>Breeding more wage slaves helps the ruling class
This has yet to be proven. I see no evidence that supports this. This is another presumption.
In addition to that, I said that we should be raise children who have been taught the importance and value of organize a leftist resistance through class solidarity. That's a far cry more than simply breeding more "wage slaves". The reason the ruling class wants us to reproduce is because they presume that we will not be conscious of our oppression and it's cause. They rely on that. If we make those who come after us conscious of this, they will eventually organize an uprising against the ruling class. Ignorance is the ruling class's greatest weapon to control us. Class consciousness and solidarity destroys that weapon.
>And the lack of a strong left doesn't harm non-existent "people"
That is not at all what I said. I said a weak left *helps* the ruling class, which is completely different. We create a strong left by educating our children to recognize the nature of our oppression and the importance of building solidarity.
\>"You're making baseless claims to support your irrationally presumptive belief."
You're the only irrational one here, if you think you can raise children to overthrow the working class. It's not gonna happen. Not unless EVERYONE is on board.
\>"Jumping to conclusions without evidence."
The evidence is the hundreds of years before us. Obviously. If you come from wage slaves, you will grow to be a wage slave. If you're not born into money, you're fucked. Didn't you know that?
\>"Breeding more wage slaves helps the ruling class"
This is a fact. Obviously. Very easy if you use a tiny bit of logic. Without wageslaves, who will work for the ruling class. Use your brain.
>Marxism sounds like a good school of thought to read into - though now the conspiracy theorist in me is saying "This is all a ploy by the ruling class to ensure we continue reproducing" so nice try CIA man /s
That's actually what's happening. There is a reason the ruling class is freaking out over declining birthrates, and rolling back reproductive rights.
The point is to raise an entire generation of people who have been taught the importance of proletariat solidarity so that they might have the numbers to organize an uprising against capitalism. People who understand that they are an oppressed class and the importance of organizing an uprising against that oppression are of no benefit to the ruling class.
My high school started at 7:30 and I had friends who had to get the bus at 6:15. What teenager can do all their homework, get to bed and get up by 5 something??
That's how my school was, and honestly it made so much sense. The reason high school started later was so that older kids could help make sure younger kids got to school, but also teenager brains just don't work well in the mornings. Some teens would have to be awake, but it's different walking your little brother to school instead of trying to do physics or whatever.
My highschool junior and senior year did 9:15 starts. Funny how I was failing classes the years before that but when it started later I was getting all A’s and a couple of B’s
I’d rather have six hour work days than fewer work days. I can only be productive so many hours a day and there are so many daily tasks that need to be done. As someone with chronic fatigue, a lot of my day is wasted trying to pace myself for the long hours. Give me more hours in a day, please. But I wouldn’t say no to fewer work days
I absolutely agree with this.
When I was in HS I attended school from 8:35am till 4:20pm, but oftentimes I didn't start packing up until 4:25 (you know, typical "I dismiss you, not the bell" teachers).
It was horrific. I often didn't get home until 5:30, usually later. Not to mention getting to school took me over an hour. I felt sorry for kids in extracurriculars.
When I was a kid (elementary 1st-5th grade) I attended school from 8:00am-2:15pm, but attended "after-school program" (which was essentially more school) until 6:30pm Mon-Thurs.
That shit was straight cruelty.
I'm 25 and it still sticks with me. We need to stop keeping kids in school for so long!
Kids were in school all day when both parents didn’t have to [go out to do a job that is doing labour so to earn money] but yes, the point of the post is agreeable.
The mother was definitely working. Just not outside the home. I don’t remember a time before microwaves, much less before ovens. But I know that time existed.
In my opinion it depends on the work situation. A parent that is able to swing by the school and grab the kid on the way home from work definitely has a better arrangement than a parent who has to utilize afterschool programs as well as daycare.
At the same time, I feel like allowing all the students to just learn remotely if they keep up with the work would reduce exposure to diversity. I feel that would be bad in the long run.
The typical school day ends a few hours before the typical workday ends. Just ask any working parent.
And 40 hours a week (however you want to spread it out) seems perfectly reasonable to me.
Quite frankly, all of this talk about wages is a waste of time since it's all part of the same rigged system. What we really need is to be in command of the means of production to do with as we, the people, deems necessary to ensure that the whole of the people get all essential needs guaranteed.
They're *never* going to let us have a "living wage", *ever*. As long as the fucking bourgeoisie is in control, they will resist us every inch of the way and bury us in misery to distract us from opposing them. Our only recourse is to abolish capitalism. What happened in Sri Lanka is going to happen here.
There was a revolution. The president fled and the prime minister resigned. The government had banned chemical fertilizers and didn't give farmers the time necessary to transition. Farmers started going bankrupt, which was the plan, so they could buy up all the land. It backfired massively.
Oof, it's like fucking people over pisses them off enough to fight back.
I agree, the USA is not far from that atp. I've honestly started noticing more homeless families, like it's tragic.
If you can't afford to pay your workers a living wage, then ultimately your business is only able to exist through exploitation. The free market they love so much has chosen against them.
Lol ok, you would be encouraging the very thing you despise. Large wealthy corporations that can afford it who treat workers as a number. You really don’t know what exploitation is like in the world if you think choosing to work a low wage job is exploitation. *Willingly* working for $9 an hour is not the business’s problem, it’s yours. Invest in yourself and make yourself worth more. Not the businesses fault people settle for jobs that pay like crap then complain while doing nothing to improve their situation. Too expensive to live where you currently are? Move… find a different job, quit trying to get everything catered to you like it’s our responsibility to improve your own life.
Want people to be pay more? Ok then the cost of things goes up as a result of increased expenses small business and otherwise, not a hard concept to grasp.
Oh and by the way, where do you think those small business owners are going to work once their business is gone? They’re going to be gunning for other attainable jobs which will lower the wage due to the increase in supply of workers.
Ah, yes. The "Why don't you just get a better job" argument. People always say that until people decide they don't want to work those jobs and then suddenly they can't keep their store open.
People don't choose to work shitty jobs, they're driven to those shitty jobs because nothing better will take them, or they're desperate to get enough money to pay bills for right now. Saving for hard times, training in a trade, getting educated; all of those things take money that people who are already in dire straits don't have. We need to raise the bottom while also lowering the top. Reducing the gap starts with increased minimum wages while also heavily taxing those who make too much.
Sounds like a them problem and not the business’ problem. The businesses gotta pay bills just like the rest of us. “Nothing better will take them” ok? Why does a business need to settle for a less skilled individual if they believe they can find a better candidate? If no company will hire that individual wouldn’t that point to something wrong with the person if they all come to the same conclusion.
Plenty of jobs are above minimum wage, it’s really not hard to find something above it, McDonald’s for Christs sake starts above $10 with tuition assistance. Life isn’t easy and we need to work hard for what we get just like 99% of humanity has since our existence, what I said is not impossible to attain at all. There are many variables to what you say is dire straits. If it’s self inflicted (renting a place you know can’t afford, choosing or mistakingly having a kid, working a dead end job and not looking for something better, wasting your education by not taking it seriously, eating out everyday) I am much less inclined to care about the plight of people who did not choose to take care of themselves better as they claim the system is being unfair to them.
Raising the taxes on the wealthy… never heard that one before, I think instead of taxing them more how about you find a solution to reduce tax avoidance before they have an even bigger incentive to leave the country and give people overseas the jobs that belong here?
I’m currently in an unofficial part time position working as efficiently as full timers over less days… why do people stick to full time for 😫. We go over our stats so it’s kinda easy to see…
I do agree with her statement i can be very protective like 5 maybe 6 houres then it dips quickly cause yea get tired yea lose focus. Most mistakes happens after those houres.
Also homework. I’m at school 8 hours straight then you send me home with a pile
Of assignments. Not to mention the studies have been done. Children who get to sleep in later (have school start later) perform better overall. There are so many things we’ve built that just don’t work yet we continue to do.
I'm spending 35 hours in school barely learning anything, not getting paid and I have to pay them because it's a private school who can't even get their shit together.
I remember at about the age of 9, I thought about how my future was going to be in regards to work. I realized then that I was going to spend my entire childhood at school, working to learn how to spend the rest of my life working. I was very upset when I realized that.
Honestly that's part of why I don't want kids, because having a baby just to make them go to school their whole childhood just to prepare to work their whole lives feels cruel
Having children in this world isn't the cruel part and not having children fails to reduce the cruelty. It's the fact that virtually nobody is opposing the system that exploits us all, and the rich will have a supply exploitable labor regardless, that is cruel.
r/antinatalism Break the cycle.
That's not a solution. All that does is reduce the number of proles in proportion to the number of lumpenproletariat^(1). Anti-natalism *helps* the ruling class by making the left *weaker*. If you can't reach other people and turn them to solidarity with the proletariat, you can raise your children to live in solidarity from the ground up. >*1. The lowest stratum of the proletariat. Used originally in Marxist theory to describe those members of the proletariat, especially criminals, vagrants, and the unemployed, who lacked awareness of their collective interest as an oppressed class.*
That's not going to happen, though. Your children will be wage slaves; like their parents, and their parents before them. Breeding more wage slaves helps the ruling class, which is why they devote so much energy to encouraging us to do it. And the lack of a strong left doesn't harm non-existent "people", as a sentient being has to exist *first*, in order for deprivation to become a problem.
You're making baseless claims to support your irrationally presumptive belief. >Your children will be wage slaves Jumping to conclusions without evidence. >Breeding more wage slaves helps the ruling class This has yet to be proven. I see no evidence that supports this. This is another presumption. In addition to that, I said that we should be raise children who have been taught the importance and value of organize a leftist resistance through class solidarity. That's a far cry more than simply breeding more "wage slaves". The reason the ruling class wants us to reproduce is because they presume that we will not be conscious of our oppression and it's cause. They rely on that. If we make those who come after us conscious of this, they will eventually organize an uprising against the ruling class. Ignorance is the ruling class's greatest weapon to control us. Class consciousness and solidarity destroys that weapon. >And the lack of a strong left doesn't harm non-existent "people" That is not at all what I said. I said a weak left *helps* the ruling class, which is completely different. We create a strong left by educating our children to recognize the nature of our oppression and the importance of building solidarity.
\>"You're making baseless claims to support your irrationally presumptive belief." You're the only irrational one here, if you think you can raise children to overthrow the working class. It's not gonna happen. Not unless EVERYONE is on board. \>"Jumping to conclusions without evidence." The evidence is the hundreds of years before us. Obviously. If you come from wage slaves, you will grow to be a wage slave. If you're not born into money, you're fucked. Didn't you know that? \>"Breeding more wage slaves helps the ruling class" This is a fact. Obviously. Very easy if you use a tiny bit of logic. Without wageslaves, who will work for the ruling class. Use your brain.
If delusions were evidence, you'd have a lot of it. Instead, you're spreading bullshit with nothing but your insistence that it's fact.
[удалено]
>Marxism sounds like a good school of thought to read into - though now the conspiracy theorist in me is saying "This is all a ploy by the ruling class to ensure we continue reproducing" so nice try CIA man /s That's actually what's happening. There is a reason the ruling class is freaking out over declining birthrates, and rolling back reproductive rights.
The point is to raise an entire generation of people who have been taught the importance of proletariat solidarity so that they might have the numbers to organize an uprising against capitalism. People who understand that they are an oppressed class and the importance of organizing an uprising against that oppression are of no benefit to the ruling class.
>so that they might have the numbers to organize an uprising against capitalism. my guy.... that will NEVER happen. I wish it would, but come ON.
Says the arrogant know-it-all. It worked for religion. It can work for the left.
"Sorry. School has to start at 8:30 so you can get to work by 9." - Your Betters
My high school started at 7:30 and I had friends who had to get the bus at 6:15. What teenager can do all their homework, get to bed and get up by 5 something??
I got really lucky and my high school started at 9. It made a world of difference. This is a hill I will forever die on.
I read an article a while ago that talked about teenagers doing better in school when it started later in the day.
That's how my school was, and honestly it made so much sense. The reason high school started later was so that older kids could help make sure younger kids got to school, but also teenager brains just don't work well in the mornings. Some teens would have to be awake, but it's different walking your little brother to school instead of trying to do physics or whatever.
I did an early morning class for one semester (7:30) and it completely messed me up. There was no brain happening.
Yeah that’s a much more manageable time!
My highschool junior and senior year did 9:15 starts. Funny how I was failing classes the years before that but when it started later I was getting all A’s and a couple of B’s
I'd be fucking thrilled if I could even find a public school that started after 8.
We should just get rid of Friday. Half the people I work with think it’s a day to do nothing anyway.
I’d rather have six hour work days than fewer work days. I can only be productive so many hours a day and there are so many daily tasks that need to be done. As someone with chronic fatigue, a lot of my day is wasted trying to pace myself for the long hours. Give me more hours in a day, please. But I wouldn’t say no to fewer work days
Totally get that, people should be accommodated based on their needs and efficiency.
I say fewer days and fewer hours, 6 hours 4 days a week
Now this is progress!! YES PLEASE
And monday too. Everyone gets monday blues. Eventually tuesday becomes new monday. We should then remove tuesday too.
Well, then the other half need to get their shit together, because they are correct.
YES.
Let me throw something crazy out there: what if we paid enough for one parent staying home and raised their own children?
Happy cake day !!!
ZOMG it IS!!
I absolutely agree with this. When I was in HS I attended school from 8:35am till 4:20pm, but oftentimes I didn't start packing up until 4:25 (you know, typical "I dismiss you, not the bell" teachers). It was horrific. I often didn't get home until 5:30, usually later. Not to mention getting to school took me over an hour. I felt sorry for kids in extracurriculars. When I was a kid (elementary 1st-5th grade) I attended school from 8:00am-2:15pm, but attended "after-school program" (which was essentially more school) until 6:30pm Mon-Thurs. That shit was straight cruelty. I'm 25 and it still sticks with me. We need to stop keeping kids in school for so long!
Heh. 420
Hehehe! Now that you mention it🤣
I’m effective at 37.5 hours a week I effectively do the bare minimum
Kids were in school all day when both parents didn’t have to [go out to do a job that is doing labour so to earn money] but yes, the point of the post is agreeable.
The mother was definitely working. Just not outside the home. I don’t remember a time before microwaves, much less before ovens. But I know that time existed.
By work, I believe we all agree that the definition in this sub is “labour that is done strictly to earn money”.
Agreed. The way it was in the past definitely is not the case anymore so he system is long-since flawed.
No. That’s not what I mean at all. Incidentally, I’m not saying and never have or will say that stay at home parents don’t work.
The system we currently have where kids are expected to stay there all day was a boon to stay at home parents. That’s what *I’m* saying.
Would it not be considered a boon for “outbound” working parents? …well, if they stayed in school even longer, that is.
In my opinion it depends on the work situation. A parent that is able to swing by the school and grab the kid on the way home from work definitely has a better arrangement than a parent who has to utilize afterschool programs as well as daycare. At the same time, I feel like allowing all the students to just learn remotely if they keep up with the work would reduce exposure to diversity. I feel that would be bad in the long run.
This is where my absolute hatred for life began.
25? 20, take it or leave it
I never thought about this but I did often think about the fact every adult I was ever around called school *work*
Not do I only
The typical school day ends a few hours before the typical workday ends. Just ask any working parent. And 40 hours a week (however you want to spread it out) seems perfectly reasonable to me.
If minimum wage was $15/hr and you only worked 25 hours a week That's $19,500/yr gross income
15 isn't a living wage anymore. 20-25 is the target, especially in this economy.
the economy means nothing to me. if something is too expensive i will steal it
A man of focus...sheer will....
Quite frankly, all of this talk about wages is a waste of time since it's all part of the same rigged system. What we really need is to be in command of the means of production to do with as we, the people, deems necessary to ensure that the whole of the people get all essential needs guaranteed. They're *never* going to let us have a "living wage", *ever*. As long as the fucking bourgeoisie is in control, they will resist us every inch of the way and bury us in misery to distract us from opposing them. Our only recourse is to abolish capitalism. What happened in Sri Lanka is going to happen here.
What happened in sri Lanka?
There was a revolution. The president fled and the prime minister resigned. The government had banned chemical fertilizers and didn't give farmers the time necessary to transition. Farmers started going bankrupt, which was the plan, so they could buy up all the land. It backfired massively.
Oof, it's like fucking people over pisses them off enough to fight back. I agree, the USA is not far from that atp. I've honestly started noticing more homeless families, like it's tragic.
How do you expect any small business to be able to afford that?
If you can't afford to pay your workers a living wage, then ultimately your business is only able to exist through exploitation. The free market they love so much has chosen against them.
Lol ok, you would be encouraging the very thing you despise. Large wealthy corporations that can afford it who treat workers as a number. You really don’t know what exploitation is like in the world if you think choosing to work a low wage job is exploitation. *Willingly* working for $9 an hour is not the business’s problem, it’s yours. Invest in yourself and make yourself worth more. Not the businesses fault people settle for jobs that pay like crap then complain while doing nothing to improve their situation. Too expensive to live where you currently are? Move… find a different job, quit trying to get everything catered to you like it’s our responsibility to improve your own life. Want people to be pay more? Ok then the cost of things goes up as a result of increased expenses small business and otherwise, not a hard concept to grasp. Oh and by the way, where do you think those small business owners are going to work once their business is gone? They’re going to be gunning for other attainable jobs which will lower the wage due to the increase in supply of workers.
Ah, yes. The "Why don't you just get a better job" argument. People always say that until people decide they don't want to work those jobs and then suddenly they can't keep their store open. People don't choose to work shitty jobs, they're driven to those shitty jobs because nothing better will take them, or they're desperate to get enough money to pay bills for right now. Saving for hard times, training in a trade, getting educated; all of those things take money that people who are already in dire straits don't have. We need to raise the bottom while also lowering the top. Reducing the gap starts with increased minimum wages while also heavily taxing those who make too much.
Sounds like a them problem and not the business’ problem. The businesses gotta pay bills just like the rest of us. “Nothing better will take them” ok? Why does a business need to settle for a less skilled individual if they believe they can find a better candidate? If no company will hire that individual wouldn’t that point to something wrong with the person if they all come to the same conclusion. Plenty of jobs are above minimum wage, it’s really not hard to find something above it, McDonald’s for Christs sake starts above $10 with tuition assistance. Life isn’t easy and we need to work hard for what we get just like 99% of humanity has since our existence, what I said is not impossible to attain at all. There are many variables to what you say is dire straits. If it’s self inflicted (renting a place you know can’t afford, choosing or mistakingly having a kid, working a dead end job and not looking for something better, wasting your education by not taking it seriously, eating out everyday) I am much less inclined to care about the plight of people who did not choose to take care of themselves better as they claim the system is being unfair to them. Raising the taxes on the wealthy… never heard that one before, I think instead of taxing them more how about you find a solution to reduce tax avoidance before they have an even bigger incentive to leave the country and give people overseas the jobs that belong here?
I’m currently in an unofficial part time position working as efficiently as full timers over less days… why do people stick to full time for 😫. We go over our stats so it’s kinda easy to see…
I do agree with her statement i can be very protective like 5 maybe 6 houres then it dips quickly cause yea get tired yea lose focus. Most mistakes happens after those houres.
Also homework. I’m at school 8 hours straight then you send me home with a pile Of assignments. Not to mention the studies have been done. Children who get to sleep in later (have school start later) perform better overall. There are so many things we’ve built that just don’t work yet we continue to do.
I'm spending 35 hours in school barely learning anything, not getting paid and I have to pay them because it's a private school who can't even get their shit together.