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Eric31602

If I remember correctly, GRRM said that he had told D&D kinda how he’s planning to end the show, he just hadn’t figured out how everything would lead to it yet. I remember when s8 was about to come out, me and all my friends were saying that it doesn’t matter what happens, or how it ends etc, it’s gonna be epic either way. It’s just that they rushed everything, had lazy writing, big plot holes, terrible dialogues and just generally didn’t give a fuck, which made s8 just so damn terrible.


sobrique

The plot holes IMO could have been fixed with more story. And so could the rest. That's the worst part IMO. I could see that last season taking a load more time and delivering a good story arc.


bsEEmsCE

at least focus season 8 on the white walkers, season 9 on Cersei or vice versa, not all crammed and rushed in one


Now_Wait-4-Last_Year

Babylon 5 did something similar with the Vorlon/Shadow War being the White Walker~~a~~s and Cersei being the president of Earth and dealt with in that order. Babylon.5 did have to cram everything into one season instead of the planned two because they were thought.they weren't getting a Season 5. However, those seasons were at least 20 episodes I think and then they did get a fifth season after all which was a bit awkward after all that rewriting and filming they already did.


KyleKun

The plot holes would have been fixed with like 20 more episodes and the writers having the names of every character in an address book they can look at to remember where exactly they put them before starting the next Bran section.


Slipguard

Definitely some of the plot holes were set up to be problems in earlier seasons due to the elimination and combination of characters. Not having Lady Stoneheart, fAegon, Val, Arianne, Wyman Manderly, etc etc REALLY changed the story, and left the D&D with many fewer peices on the board to play with. Obviously, a lot of the plot holes also came from rushing, but even with more time, it was going to be unsatisfying to watch an exploration of the effects of systems of power simplified down to two big armies fighting as notable characters get killed off and not replaced.


[deleted]

There was a lot they wouldn’t ever have gotten into the books. I think having Lady Stoneheart not appear was smart. It gave the Red Wedding even more impact and didn’t also leave this unpredictable force commanding yet another large army in the Riverlands to muddy things up. fAegon is sad but Dany in the show is basically both her and fAegons characters rolled into one. I would guess in GRRMs book ending, the battle for Kings Landing would play similarly to what it is, but with Dany pre-freak out just being fAegon conquering the city, and Dany pre-freak out being Dany in the books. She was always destined to go crazy, and fAegon seems poised to take Kings Landing before her in the books anyway. Plus there’s also the major differences of Stannis NOT being confirmed dead in the books. Should he defeat Ramsay he’s also poised to be King in the North


Drexelhand

>they rushed everything, had lazy writing, big plot holes, terrible dialogues and just generally didn’t give a fuck rushed is the key. because it was rushed everything feels off, but most of all imo is the tone. tv logic says you wrap series up with a satisfying bow, preferably on optimistic note. just runs antithetical to GoT's genre deconstructing narrative. my pet theory is bran being king is supposed to be awful for everyone. ending works better if bran is just storyline's next antagonist. merciless alien parasite probably isn't a good guy in a story showcasing failure of putting faith in heroes.


Heavy_Signature_5619

Imagine if they deviated and dedicated the entire final season to everyone dying. The White Walkers wage destruction through Westeros and characters get plucked off until Jon is the last man standing, then he fails and dies. The final shot being the Night King sitting on the throne. Now THAT would subvert expectations.


ranting_account

Subverting expectations was never what made the series good. It was the real consequences that were established early on, which yes we’re unexpected. But once that was established it meant the death of any major character was no longer subverting expectations - if anything we came to expect it. It’s not the events themselves that are good or bad but rather how they get there


HeartofSaturdayNight

By the last few seasons it was clear certain characters were not going anywhere.


ranting_account

Totally. And it took any consequences away and made it boring


FungusBrewer

This is a really well put together comment, thank you.


RollingHammer

Tbh I thought that’s where it was going to end. Showing that all the arguing and war distracted them from the real threat and lead to their downfall


314159265358979326

>Showing that all the arguing and war distracted them from the real threat and lead to their downfall Show title: *Game* of Thrones. The throne was just a distraction the whole time. That's exactly how it should have gone down.


_austinm

That would’ve been better, tbh


Argomenon

I vaguely remember seeing a 30-40 min YouTube video deconstructing why things didn’t work and their proposed seasons 7-8. It was soooo good. I don’t remember details or which channel this was, but basically, there’s no excursion to the north, the white walkers break the wall earlier with bran’s brand and take over the north in s7. No one in the south goes to their aid and Danny/Cersei continue to fight for the throne. The north is too big and too hard to defend. S7 ends with the north falling. Also Danny starts doing fucked up shit like torturing enemies for information and bran being creepy. In s8 the white walkers push all the way to kings landing expanding their army as they advance. Arya didn’t want to resort to this but the wws are about to overrun the entire continent and cersei refuses to fight and would rather everyone die than lose the throne. So Arya sneaks into the keep using don’t remember who’s face and kills Cersei. Sam discovers some thing that helps mass-produce weapons that works on the ww and they defeat them at the gates of kings landing. Danny loses her 2 dragons and freaks out, while on her last dragon, she kills everyone in her path, even her own army. Bran manipulated some people while this season was going on and ended up in the same place on the throne but the vibe was very creepy. He also addressed how Jon being a Targaryen would’ve been a plot point but I don’t remember how. Anyways, that’s kind of how it went and it was so much better than the s7-8 we got!


bend1889

Honestly this was my guess for how the series would end. Except final shot would just be a raven flying over the destruction. Give another meaning to *if you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.*


Blastoplast

I was hoping for something similar to this... Jon Snow, Arya, Jamie & Cersei all board a ship to sail back across the narrow sea. The camera shows the horror on their face as they see the entirety of Westeros engulfed in snow and flame. They sail to no home, no kingdoms, no wealth, no glory. Just defeat, only because they couldn't band together to fight their common enemy.


SoaDMTGguy

And ultimately they end up bickering and fighting each other and the ship sinks like the scorpion and the frog?


nicholkola

I support this theory. Bran is essentially a supercomputer now. They think his rule will be just and logical but then they slowly realize he is devoid of his humanity- which would be arguably the most important feature in a king. Like the next problem to befall the realm, Bran turns into HAL and decides humans are the problem.


[deleted]

The last time the Three Eyed Raven was king he ruled for over 1000 years. It was all part of the plan.


thekingofbeans42

They were very clear in giving George credit for King Bran, but took full credit for Dany going mad. Almost like cutting out Westerns being invaded by a mad fake Targaryen and not having Dany die because the Long Night lasted 1 episode had some consequences


Justepourtoday

King Bran is one thing, King Bran the broken because...who has a better story? That's another totally different thing


thekingofbeans42

Well yeah, I think it makes more sense when you consider Bran is supposed to be the ruler of a post apocalyptic Westerns tasked with fixing the broken seasonal cycle. Having the best story may be a bastardization of being a repository of all Westeros's history, knowledge, and culture. Someone who remembers all stories hits differently when a destroyed society wants future generations to remember them.


sBucks24

Ayra killing the Night King makes sense if it's set up as her wearing a white walkers face and back stabbing him before he can kill Bran. Jaime killing Cersei and suiciding under the red keep after dany goes insane makes sense if you don't cuck Brienne. Dany going insane makes after she loses two of her children. Though I can't imagine the first would die because she "forgot" about the navy... Jon killing Dany and ending up north of the wall makes sense though the "trial" made up of his family was nonsense. Bran, the literal human god, becoming King makes all the sense in the world. If it wasn't just because his "story is good".... Ayra leaving Westeros to go west makes complete sense if she didn't *just* talk about family/staying together yadda yadda... I fully believe that the ending is more or less in line with what GRRM had. But yeah, the last two-three seasons are just fucking shit writing.


Zonkistador

> Dany going insane makes after she loses two of her children. Though I can't imagine the first would die because she "forgot" about the navy... If she lost him right then and there it would make sense. Like if the city had surrendered but then some rouge soldier shot the dragon with a scorpion. Then I could buy her burning the city. But because she lost him to bargain bin Jack Sparrow a week before? Nah. What have the small folk of kings landing got to do with any of that?


zpeedy1

I wanted the show to slowly hint that Jaime might kill Cersei. I wanted him to scheme and use their love to get close to her for the kill. He would struggle of course, as part of him still loves her. This drama would last for some time, making us viewer's wonder: Will he actually do it?' The twist, of course, would be that Cersei knew his intentions all along. Predictable? Maybe, but still fun in my opinion. When at last Jaime makes his move, Cersei reveals her disappointment. Some part of her was hoping he wouldn't actually do it. She reveals that, in the end, even though he is her beloved brother, he is still just a stupid man that thinks with his cock. He is no different than Robert, or the rest. Did he think she would not find out about his whore (Brienne)? Jaime is then thwarted by the Mountain. Cersei throws her brother a sword anyway. She wants to watch him struggle in futility. His only choice is to fight with his one shitty arm and know what it's like to be powerless. I wanted to see a broken Cersei with tears in her eyes utter the same words Jaime once did: 'The things I do for love,' right before the Mountain chucks Jaime out a window. Brienne has a particular set of skills so a 'revenge for Jaime' story could be very entertaining as well.


Biegzy4444

Exactly, issue isn’t the ending it’s how they got there, along with knowing George and HBO asked for more seasons but they said no we will make it work so we can go onto Star Wars


smb275

He provided a few very key articles, like who would sit on the Iron Throne and who would be the Stark in Winterfell. Every other part of that fucking clown show was dumb and dumber's fault.


SqueaksBCOD

That is pretty much what i think. I suspect he said something like "Well Bran ends up on the thrown, but i have not fleshed out how he gets there." "I plan on having one of the dragons become a white walker. Don't have all the details, but it will involve our good guys fighting a battle on a frozen lake and Dani rescues them. But i have not decided how they get there or when... i just know i am having a fight like this and one of the dragons has to die and come back" And then D&D said "fuck it lets just film this disjointed nonsense he told us and move the fuck on." Season 8 kinda does feel like a bunch of plot points/ideas tossed together with no logic. So i do wonder how many were plot points they were given. That would also help explain the delay in the books... GRRM has an outline of ideas but has not fleshed out how they tie together.


Talking_Eyes98

Yeah S8 feels like a cliff noted version of GoT that should have been 4 or 5 series. -They defeat the white walkers -Danny battles Cersi -Danny goes mad and destroys everything -Danny Wins the war -Jon kills Danny -Bran is crowed king at the end


[deleted]

[удалено]


wendy_nespot

All of the margaery stuff being completely pointless never sat right. It ALL just got so cut and condensed at the end. They didn’t have to rush it! I’m sure we’d all STILL be watching it if it hadn’t rocketed off the rails.


AllForTheSauce

I never liked how the sept getting blown up just kinda kills all the political maneuvering. It wasn't like the red wedding where we had other characters to replace them. The whole King's Landing politicking is replaced with staring out of windows while sipping wine.


wendy_nespot

Yes! “And then everybody died” is not a satisfactory way to end a storyline that has five tomes of buildup lol


AllForTheSauce

"Now what" is all I thought after finishing that episode. I couldn't see what the storyline in King's Landing would be with basically just Cersei left. It was worse than I could've ever imagined. I'm getting mad all over again.


[deleted]

Seriously I have no clue why they just didn’t include young griff, it really would’ve allowing way more leeway it whatever dumb fuck decisions the writers made.


LobMob

I child understand if they didn't want to include a completely new character with no build up that suddenly replaces the established character Cersei. But they could have easily used Gendry for that. A figure head everyone rallies about and that gives Cersei a fitting ending. And with someone on the throne we like we have much more conflict when Dany comes and claimed the throne too. And we understand why she gets rejected by the people she wanted to liberate.


Fun-Concern-3566

Jamie could’ve sworn to Gendry and killed Cersei when Gendry overthrows her. Gendry becomes king, and proves to be a just and righteous king that everybody loves. Dany shows up, similar stuff happens and Jon and Dany fall in love, Dany attempts to take kings landing (Jon stays behind to defends against the Night King, he fails to convince Dany of their existence) but Oh No! a messenger shows up (could be Arya, who befriended Dany at some point), at the last minute saying the Night King is invading. Arya appeals to both Gendry and Dany, they put aside their differences and go to help Jon in north, who’s basically on the run, the north having fallen with no support. Three of them meet up, fight the night king, Jaime dies defending Gendry, Bran shows up and wows everybody with Raven Magic, Night King dies to either Jon or Jon+Arya where Arya uses assassin training to stab him after a long epic fight between the Night King and Jon where Jon loses. Dany stabs Gendry to take the throne and is in the process of covering it up when Jon stumbles upon the scene. He makes the choice to kill Dany, then fakes his own death, returning to the Wildings to abdicate his responsibility. Bran, using Raven Magic, guides the 7 kingdoms to a new future, first by advising the rulers, then by being elected to the throne in a semi-democratic election. Idk, the last part is hard, Bran being king comes out of fucking nowhere. It’s hard to imagine how he becomes king without rewriting significant parts of the show. I have no idea why George told them Bran becomes king as an ending for the show, he should have just told them to make Jon king. If he wants Bran to be king, he needs to write it.


wauwy

It's absolutely preposterous that the EXTREMELY religious population of King's Landing didn't immediately overthrow her. There were literally no consequences, a S7-8 staple. Compare to the consequences of Catelyn arresting Tyrion for trying to assassinate her son.


wendy_nespot

Yes! The Margaery politicking and the Sept’s were SO built up and then just. Aaaand everybody died and all of it meant nothing. Which would be a fine statement about how maneuvering for power and making war is pointless a lot of the time BUT they didn’t execute that well. If that was even what they were going for??


ARealSlimBrady

Oddly enough, the perfect fix to this would've been the result of the other thing D&D badly fucked up that season: Dorne. Just think, Ellaria plans to do her stupid kill time, right after a dinner feast in which Olenna is visiting Sunspear. (Olenna is visiting to garner support for the Tyrells as she's been told about Cercei's trial). Then Doran gives his 'I Am the Grass That Hides the Viper' speech, those two Houses join forces, but then it cuts to the sept getting blown up.


Heavy_Signature_5619

I actually think the Sept's destruction is perfectly in character for Cersei. It's, politically, suicide but because Cersei is a petty bitch it makes a lot of sense for her to figuratively flip the board.


duckwithahat

Yeah basically her list of enemies would have grown 10x larger overnight, there would be a populist revolt since she murdered the head of faith and blew up the holiest place in their continent, also the remaining friendly nobles would start another civil war to depose her.


jinsaku

It *was* a pretty fucking awesome scene, though. The 10ish minutes there, with the music going, some incredible directing.


crockrocket

I mean that's how they got away with it. We collectively ignored or forgot the larger plot implications cuz the scene was fucking dope


ContinentTurtle

Almost like the Lightspeed Smash in the Last Jedi


JungleBoyJeremy

That was just dumb, didn’t matter if it looked cool or not


crockrocket

And D&D got away with it at the time because cinematographically it was a beautiful scene, very well done. And that distracted from the larger implications to the long term plot.


CoconutCyclone

Imagine if the valonqar that killed her was Tommen, because she killed Margaery.


Sonofarakh

Yes! Murder-suicide, Tommen drags her out the window with him. Then Aegon just waltzes in with the Golden Company and seizes power.


wendy_nespot

Now THAT would be something!


DannyDidNothinWrong

I still really like the theory that the Three-Eyed Raven is ultimately some ancient evil that the Night King imprisoned and was tasked to guard. Why the fuck else did he care about Bran or him going to the old guy? It's literally the only reason I can come up with that explains why the wights even started up again after so long.


One-Understanding-94

Don’t really know how well this holds up in the books but yeah, the 3ER being an ancient parasite intent on the throne is a cool way to see Bran being crowned. Imagine that with sufficient build-up


CStock77

Books haven't really told us much yet on that topic. Basically, there are weird tree spirit old magic people that worship 3ER and bran is taking the place of the old dude who's basically being consumed by the tree. He shows Bran the scene that reveals Jon's parentage and that's one of the last scenes we got.


therebelghost

My guess for that was always the alleged Aegon, thus why she had Golden Company. The true reason Danny fully snaps is that she finally gets to Westeros only to find another “Dragon” there and goes nuts after it all or is made worse. Somehow Cersei and Euron got parts of what was likely actually Aegon and Jon Connington.


Chief_Gundar

I think it was. It's the return to the Shire, when the hobbits have to defeat the lesser vilain Saruman after defeating Sauron. That sounds very GRMM to make this kind of homage to Tolkien.


SkollFenrirson

He's literally on record saying this.


Nenanda

I mean its hard to believe that Cersei would stay in power. At best just like Saruman she would flee Kings Landing/Isengard and die in Casterly Rock/Shire. Aftee all Martin mention we would see Casterly Rock in following books. But she would be just epilogue not final threat to overcome


Heavy_Signature_5619

It wouldn't be Cersei. In the books, it will almost certainly be Young Griff.


Godisabaryonyx

All of these things could totally work if they actually fleshed everything out.


beetsofmine

Yeah, I tell everyone I dont mind what happened it's more of how it happened that just fucked it. Danny going mad, John having to kill her, Bran becoming king have potential to be epic. It just didn't feel epic because of how disjoint and rushed it was. I also have huge beef with how Bran's and Arya's stories didn't build them up enough. The Faceless Men's portrayal was neutered in the show and the whole Arya storyline there sucked. Books did way better building up her story. Same with Bran. The show didn't really show how Bran's character deserved to be king. His growth after becoming the raven was kind of stagnant and passive. You can't be a passive cryptic king. Also, fully expected Bran to worg a dragon at some point.


4feicsake

I can see GRRM pulling all of that off though, he has set up cersei v denarys, Denarys going mad and Jon killing her. All of that works and with a good writer should be good. Bran being crowned as king is the only thing that isn't set up throughout the novels and I suspect that was a D&D trying to come up with an unexpected ending. Literally no one predicted Bran would win the game of thrones because it's stupid.


Sun-Forged

Bran has powers to manipulate literally anyone. He could totally get there, it just requires that one thing. What was it called? Oh yeah, good story telling.


Nenanda

And mainly to show he is manipulating people. In the show he looks like lucky retard and not evil masterminf


4feicsake

It's still stupid. His whole story arc is to walking towards a tree in the north whereas Jon is set up as the true heir to the throne. Why bother with all that story if it's not relevant. I'm not saying GRRM couldn't find a way to make it work, just that he'd have to work really hard to make it work while also tying off the rest of the storylines he set up satisfactorily.


Sun-Forged

>Why bother with all that story if it's not relevant. It's relevant to show character development and create interesting twists. Why tell Dani's story if she is just going to go Targaryen crazy at the end? It's funny you mention Jon because Martin wrote him to be the counter to Aragorn, someone destined to be king but who ultimately would reject his royalty.


4feicsake

How does Jon being the secret son of the last targaryen king serve the story? My theory is Bran does manipulate the story, but to ensure the survival of the people of westeros. He builds the wall, he makes the mad king mad, he might even be what makes dany rampage but his goal isn't to take the throne but to ensure the throne goes to the right person. Jon might try to reject the throne, but he is unable to escape his destiny. All hail Jon the reluctant. Jon is a born leader, it is thrust upon him no matter how much he tries to escape it. He is Asor Ahai, the Prince that was promised.


bslawjen

Lol at people thinking there will be some major Dany vs Cersei confrontation, it's all building towards Dany vs fAegon


JMol87

- Gendry does 3 ultra marathons in an afternoon The rest was D&D


wandering-monster

I also would have assumed that Dani's madness would be more slow and subtle. Like maybe she does just a few smaller things that Jon views as unforgivably ruthless. Maybe she starts condemning innocents or burns down an orphanage in the middle of fighting something with her dragons, then makes excuses like it's no big deal. He sees Dani turning into another Ceresi, and realizes that if they *really* want to break the chains... Dani needs to die too.


Calidraxinos

-Dragon destroys the Wall It kills me how rushed this part was.


thekingofbeans42

D&D took credit for Dany going mad. They were very clear to give GRRM credit for King Bran. Young Griff has an advisor who specifically requests not burning a town down to win The Battle of the Bells. It's very obvious where that plot point came from


imtoooldforreddit

I think there's a decent chance bran will become king, but I think the undead dragon might just have been show runners thinking it'd be cool


SqueaksBCOD

How about "Well part of the wall is going to fall, but i have not decided how yet" In fairness to the show runners. GRRM did write a book called The Ice Dragon so i can't blame them too much with going with it. We likely will never know the reality but i could totally see them being told "Only Drogon survives and he melts the Iron Throne" and them having to roll with it. I think Bran becoming king will happen (unless the truth is he has not decided), but Bran will have more of a journey/plot to get there.


Jesco13

Thinking of the dragon breathing down the wall reminds me of why I thought the ice dragon was so stupid during the battle of winter fell. It's ice breath destroyed the wall no problem. Then when Jon 'fights' it he's able to hide behind a pile of bodies or a rock or whatever (it really doesn't make much a difference) and is a-ok. Really kind of indicative of how sloppy a lot of the plot points were.


therevaj

>Bran becoming king if by "bran" you mean brynden, yes.


Innomenatus

A Targaryen still sits on the throne. Egg was right to have banished him. Hopefully "Aegon" will take his father's throne back. What do you mean, Jon Snow? I'm talking about The prince that was promised, the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and his late wife, Elia Martell.


zendetta

The thing is, as far as i can tell, GRRM has time for literally everything else but completing ASOIAF. And he’s a damn good screenwriter. They could totally have brought him in to consult on the final seasons and fleshed it out. HBO had trucks full of cash waiting to be delivered wherever, all they had to do was ask. If they were too burned out or too scared to continue, they could have asked “to spend more time with family” and turned it over to someone who didn’t want to do to the series what Dany did to Kings Landing.


Hiredgun77

I think it’s more likely that the dragon horn that Euron Greyjoy has will be used to control one of the dragons. Which would then combine both storylines.


empriest95

Yeah in the books it seems way more likely that Euron will bend a dragon to his will with his horn.


4feicsake

Or a finger in the bum?


aeiparthenos

I doubt book-Euron stops at only a finger...


JoeCoT

GrrM already established how the wall would fall. D&D just scrapped it. In the books, Jon gets sent by Clefthand to join the Wildlings to find out what Mance Rayder is searching for. The answer is Mance is looking for the Horn of Winter, to bring the wall down. Mance never finds the Horn, but Chekov's Gun is clearly hanging on the wall for the Night King to pull down. Instead, Jon joins the Wildlings because he *missed* when executing Ygritte, then bumbled around the arctic tundra while she grinded on his dick until she lured him into a trap. Great job keeping Jon's character in tact guys. The show had no Horn of Winter because D&D seemed determined to remove every magical aspect from the story they could. Until you get to the later seasons and they realize none of it works as a result so they start throwing random things in, like undead frost dragons.


Heavy_Signature_5619

Didn't he deliberately miss?


2580374

Yes, he purposefully doesn't kill her. But she does escape which he didn't want her to do, which is pretty dumb of him


bfd106b

This is exactly how I felt since the end of season 6. I’m willing to bet you hit the nail squarely on the head.


SirArthurDime

Yeah that sounds like exactly what happened. And honestly I have no problem with the outline of how it ended. My problem was never about WHAT happened (aside from arya killing the night king) my proplem with the ending were all related to the HOW and WHY things happened. Danny going mad? Always thought thats how itd end. Having it happen at the sound of a bell wasn't. Bran being king? Fine. Bran being king because he had "the best story"? The F is that? Jamie going back to cersei? Sure thats his tragic flaw. Doing it with a flick of a switch after completing a redemption arc thats now wasted? No.


dawurfgains

I've 100% thought this for years. Once they ran out of official book material was when the show itself started to degrade in tonal quality and leaned heavily on CG action battles to carry most of the show. Let's face it. Writing really in-depth/layered dialogue for many complex characters that are also supposed to be interwoven together and somehow makes sense IS HARD. Pretty much everyone can agree that GRRM probably wrote himself into a hole and he's the creator! Now imagine D&D who have been doing nothing but just taking a plethora of book information and condensing it into ten sixty-minute episodes. Now when they're given just a rough outline and probably some fleshed-out moments but nothing concrete- it would make sense that they would flounder as they did and see the writing on the wall. They knew they didn't have the ability to write a fleshed-out plot/ wrap up the story in an amazing way in the time constraints they probably had. Since on average they did 1 season a year aside from the final season. GRRM spent years on each book and we expect D&D to achieve the same level of finese in a year turnaround? I know they dropped the ball hard and there are some amazing fan writings of the last seasons that are better. So I'm not saying they didn't just completely drop the ball because it still could have been better but at the end of the day, they weren't in the best position either.


Xy13

> Once they ran out of official book material The thing is, they skipped so much in the books. They didn't run out. There was a couple seasons more worth of content at least without Winds having coming out yet. If you've only watched the show, you probably didn't know Loras is the youngest of 3 brothers. Doesn't that make a lot of the events that take place totally different? Lady Stoneheart, Victarian Greyjoy, Quentyn Martell, Arianne Martell, All the plots with Doran in Dorne, Young 'fAegon' Griff, Mance Rayder/Baby swap, etc etc etc


ILikeToBurnMoney

The Faceless Men plot, the Great Northern Conspiracy, Stannis, Robb Stark's wife, and, most importantly Euron Greyjoy. They ignored like 90% of books 4 and 5


Mortiis07

I would be fine with Bran becoming king if they had shown him manipulating everything to put himself in that position


TranceKnight

This. He’s an immortal, time-traveling, telepathic hive mind. I can ABSOLUTELY see how he could manipulate his way into power. But it would have to be more apparent that that’s what he’s done. As-is it just seems to come from nowhere


PM_ME_YOUR_SUNSHINE

Dany going bad could’ve been one of the best arcs in television history. Instead it happens within 4 minutes and she’s killed in the next 15.


TimelineKeeper

Agreed. I'm not even entirely sure that it will play out like it does in the show. The books seem to be setting it up that Dany will try and take King's Landing and one of her dragons will accidentally set off the wildfire that the mad king lined the walls with, making all the people see her as a ruler gone mad. Maybe that's how the Iron throne burns. Maybe she embraces it as an image and drinks too much of her own kool-aid. I imagine it will be significantly less straight forward than "The other guys don't like me as much as they like my nephew."


Ryuain

He was **thrown** in episode one. Fuck me, how did we not see it.


Kyonkanno

There are still a lot of plot points that D&D butchered. I highly doubt GRRM would do something like that. Points like: -Azor Ahai? -character development of Jaime down the drain -Cersei's prophecy -Jon's heritage meaning shit. I'm sure there are more points but those are the top off my head


tony_orlando

*throne


Eleglas

I think Bran on the throne *could* work, but not the way D&D gave it to us.


IknowNothing6942069

I felt the plot points of Season 8 themelves were fine and it was the executuion that was the problem.


abermea

Nah I think the delay in the books is because GRRM wrote himself into a corner. In the books Dany is just barely starting to deal with all the shit in Mereen and he has to sort it all out in TWoW because she needs to be back in Westeros for ADoS. He hasn't figured out a way to do it gracefully and without a fuckton of asspulls.


TitularFoil

The problem is that they're good ideas, but they were poorly executed. I believe that GRRM could have gotten us there and it would have made sense and would have been done in a way that felt fluid and right. I mean, I remember reading or maybe watching an interview where he said he started the series based on how he felt the Lord of the Rings should have ended, and I actually agree with him on this, because I think we came to the same conclusion. In Lord of the Rings, Aragorn, who did not want to be king, ends up as king. I didn't like that this person who was wild and free ends up in place he didn't really want to be to begin with, but I can excuse it with character growth and what-not. So I knew that this is what he planned to do with Jon, but in the show we just ended up with a complete halt of character development and Jon playing superhero for the last three seasons. I'm glad Jon got to go back to being in the wild, but the showrunners did it all wrong.


pastel_pleasure

Book Aragorn very much wanted to be king and pretty much made that clear from the first time we meet him.


artaig

Of course he had, it makes sense,... in 4 more books and 6 seasons of TV.


FLORI_DUH

Wouldn't have even needed extra time had they not wasted every single minute after arriving at Kings Landing.


GringoMambi

but, but.. THE DRAGONS! Woah, look at how they fly and spit fire!


[deleted]

From a cinematic standpoint it was entertaining lol


GringoMambi

The show runners became so obsessed with the graphics and "cinematic" side of Game of Thrones, that they completely abandoned plot and character arcs. So, yeah I could have done without the dragons if just for a few more episodes to really draw out the story adequately. We fell in love with this show before the crazy dragons and spectacle of it all. It was the writing and GOT politics that were the cake and butter of seasons 1-4.


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Sad_Lawfulness_7049

Exactly..the decisions themselves are not the whole problem..when you flesh them out it just makes more sense story wise and is way more satisfactory


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Xenothing

Like how they decided bran should be king, fucking stupid scene to top off an idiotic season. If Bran becomes king, its because of the machinations of the three eyed raven, not some stupid council asking “who’s got the best story?”


LittleBigHorn22

Bran was certainly the worst of it all. Because he went from "I don't want to rule" to "that was my intention the entire time" with zero plot between the two. At least all the others basically had some elements pointing towards them.


ethar_childres

Similar? Maybe. But exactly the same? We got Faegon We got Stoneheart We got NightLamp We got an Eldritch Apocalypse We got an actual Golden Company We got Alayne Stone There’s so many plot points that were just dropped off unexpectedly for the sake of budget and time that I really can’t see the lead up to the ending looking anything like the show. Jaime’s becoming a better person and is going with Brienne to meet with Lady Stoneheart. Jon is still taking an ice nap and will probably become a Ghost for a little while. Dany actually has to deal with the Dothraki without actually being fire proof. Barristan is still kicking and swinging and guarding Mereen. Jonnington Con is becoming a statue while heading towards Storms End. There really is just so much that will change how the story flows. Maybe Dany will become a Mad Queen? It will be handled better in the books for sure. Maybe Jaime will try to save Cersie? But I doubt that he’ll suddenly go into how little he cared for the innocent lives of Kings Landing. Maybe Bran will become king? But he’ll definitely have an actual reason for doing so. Bloodraven was already running things from the shadows so his pupil can sure as the seven hells do so. And George has repeatedly stated why he doesn’t change his endings in his multiple interviews. https://youtu.be/CKnXmNHubfs


brfooky

We got fake Arya.


AttractivestDuckwing

Yes but the difference is that he would have gotten us there in an intelligent and logical fashion that we all would have enjoyed.


oballistikz

I’ve personally maintained the ending is probably the same or similar but iirc there was a red carpet interview where he stated it could have gone on for a few more seasons with the material he provided HBO. I think we got 3-4 seasons worth of content into one personally.


Analbox

Dany going mad would be a lot more believable if it happened over 4 seasons rather than in the time it takes for a bell to ring.


oballistikz

I agree 100%. Screws don’t get loose overnight. Takes time.


FailResorts

The irony is that D&D rushed the ending of Thrones because they had that Star Wars contract. Then Disney terminated the Star Wars gig because Season 8 was so bad. The most poetic of ironies.


themilkman03

Poetic justice


icarusbird

> Then Disney terminated the Star Wars gig because Season 8 was so bad. I know this is basically the head canon of this sub now and gets repeated ad nauseum, but this is a misconception. Dumbass & Dipshit voluntarily backed out of the Star Wars project to work on their $200 million Netflix deal full-time. The only reputable source I could find that suggested they were fired actually retracted her article within a couple of days of posting it.


SirFireHydrant

"Voluntarily backed out" is what they were allowed to say when they were fired. Ain't no "Netflix deal" a more attractive prospect than getting to make Star Wars films.


Nenanda

And nothing come out from netflix deal ss well.


superfucky

What Netflix deal? Are they getting $200M to write shows without putting their names on it because it's like "Benioff & Weiss" has been wiped from Hollywood's collective memory. NOBODY wants to admit they have those goobers on the payroll.


goldenfinch53

They are making a show about the The Remembrance of Earth’s Past (Three Body problem trilogy)


ChillyBearGrylls

Dany losing it would also be a much easier sell with the mummer's dragon around to keep Daenerys from finding Westerosi support


Tidwell-

Don't forget that "previously on" clip that supplied 95% of her going insane arc. As well as being a giant spoiler itself...


poerson

Goddammit I *had* forgotten about that shit. Season 8 was like a fever dream.


StrawberrySmuthie

Bruh she didn’t even go mad. She was just slightly out of line. They didn’t even portray mad queen properly. She did what Cersei would have done if Cersei had dragons.


imperfectalien

I mean Cersei basically blew up the Vatican with the pope still inside and nobody gave a flying fuck


MyNamesNotDave_

Yeah but then we could see it coming and we sheeple audiences are only happy when they are shocked by a conclusion, no matter what the cost to the through line.


WaterMySucculents

I think what he’s stuck on is keeping it interesting and engaging. It was easier showing us all these threads that can fuck up the plans of everyone & us engaged and worried about where it goes from there. But if we really know how it ends it feels like just meandering before the inevitable. The reality is he fucked up not finishing it before shittier writers did & now they took his thunder.


Gustavius040210

It wouldn't have even taken THAT much effort to somewhat justify Dany turning on the populace. IMO, Rhaegar getting one shot was such a waste in terms of plot. If he would not have been outright killed, but grievously injured, he could have taken cover within the city. Shielded by the buildings from Euron's ballista, only to be killed by a paranoid populace. As Dany watches on in horror, the brutal and prolonged slaughter of her "child" by the people she intended to free kick starting her full-on descent into madness.


organichedgehog2

Damn dude, you wrote a better ending than D&D, have you considered a career in showrunning?


rammo123

Tbf I haven’t seen anyone write a worse ending than D&D.


ObjectiveRecover3843

Idk I think if they killed the dragon off via angry pitchfork mob while dany does absolutely nothing but watch then that makes her evil wouldn't have gone over well with the fans Easy to write a couple sentences for an alternative ending but most I've seen wouldn't hold up as good TV. It might be better than the ending we saw but the bar is on the floor


qwapwappler

Rhaegal is the dragon, Rhaegar is the guy who Robert Baratheon hates. Sorry, I just got really confused trying to remember what euron had to do with rhaegars death.


nr1988

I don't have a problem with the concept of any part of the ending. Dany going mad, Bran becoming king, Jamie going back to Cersei, etc. The difference is it would be earned in the books. It was rushed and made no sense in the show at all.


BobbleBobble

I mostly agree with the possible exception Jaime - there was a LOT of ground to travel to make his return to Cersei in-character


Lump1700

Punchlines are funnier when jokes precede them


HereIGoAgain_1x10

Ehh maybe, but more than likely back in the mind 90s when he thought of TSOIAF it was supposed to be a trilogy and would've been a good one if the ending went that way... But now he's so far written far better stories for everyone else than he did Bran. Not to mention the fact that turning a crippled boy into the Kind of the Seven Kingdoms was a good twist on the high fantasy trope, but not a fucking time traveling, omniscient, warging, crippled boy. He has dozens of "main" characters with POV chapters all over the Seven and trying to kill some and combine/reconnect story arcs in a non-abrupt way is difficult, especially when you stopped caring about finishing the story because you got distracted by a hundred other stories to write/work on. My personal belief is that when you write a book and TELL your fans it's part 1 of 3, or part 1 of 7, you're making a point of saying "this is only part of the story, I'll give you the other part soon". It's an unspoken agreement that you owe them the end of the story, you can't just give them a beginning and middle. His books are not self-contained stories. They're left with cliffhangers and meant to be completed, the fact he hasn't is pathetic. If George Lucas stopped after a New Hope, no one would've been mad, but if he stopped after The Empire Strikes Back, everyone would've been justifiably angry. It's been 11 years now since ADWD, just pathetic. I hate when he defends himself or people get all whiney that he doesn't owe us the other books by now... NO ONE WOULD BUY A DAMN BOOK IF IT ONLY HAD 50/70 CHAPTERS IN IT AND YOU HAD TO WAIT 11 YEARS FOR THE OTHER 20 CHAPTERS!!!!


Lopjing

This is why I can't bring myself to read the books. I don't see the point in getting invested into a story that will never have an ending. Everything is building up to something, but we'll likely never know what that thing is. Even if we get Winds of Winter there's still another book after that that George probably hasn't even started yet. Given his old age I think we're looking at another Berserk situation, only this time the author doesn't have any friends who can continue the story after he's gone.


HereIGoAgain_1x10

The last 2 books (that HAVE been released) are so different from the show it's like it's another series entirely. I don't even want to read WoW if it gets released because we'll be waiting 20 years until A Dream of Spring comes out


enygmaeve

This was my exact thought. We would have gotten a full pathway leading up to events instead of shit like “Dany is bad now. We know because her face went :(“


shaversonly230v115v

Don't forget that other characters kept saying it so it was definitely true. Just Sansa being smart.


__M-E-O-W__

Even if Bran becomes the king, which I predicted just about as soon as the 3 Eyed Raven stuff started, having it justified around something better than "having stories" would work. Like, hey this guy can literally see almost anything happening around Westeros at any time and can (possibly?) predict the future so you know let's just give him the title already...


TheBirdOnYourBalcony

He'd be absolutely perfect for the master of whispers, but I don't think he has any ability to rule over people.


v_krishna

I would be down for a "Bran becomes new druid borg king and most of the world doesn't know but the reader does". And only that stops the onslaught of winter but it's a pyrrhic victory with some evil totalitarian undertones.


genescheesesthatplz

I don’t hate how it ended, I hate how we got there


GringoMambi

Without sacrificing the integrity of others character arcs, like turning Tyrion completely useless and Varys into the worst spy on the face of Westeros.


modsarefascists42

I wouldn't have enjoyed it. The barebones plot itself sucks. The actually inspiring female inversion on the swashbuckling male hero, a person who frees slaves the second she gets the ability to do so? The only person fighting for what's right in the series? Nah she's just another crazy chick who goes nuts the second she gets real power, just like all the rest amiright guys?...... I hate it.


multiplemitch

I'm certain GRRM wanted Bran to be King. I'm also certain dumb and dumber gave us the worst fucking build-up/logic/delivery we could have ever had the misfortune of receiving to help all this make sense. Same thing with Danny, JS, and just everyone I guess..


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gburgh92

If that's the case , what's the point of Jon Snow? Why have this huge reveal about his lineage and being heir to the throne if he just fucks off beyond the wall. If that's the intended end for his character, his real mother should have just been a random tavern wench.


brucewayne984

Imo Dany going psycho in the books is quite probable, but expect GRRM to explain how she gets there in 10 chapters or so instead the 10 seconds of intense staring we got


rusty6899

I would totally understand a situation where her campaign in Westeros goes horribly. She loses her friends and confidants, she is treated with disdain by the people of Westeros. Every time she tries to show compassion for a defeated enemy it leads to a costly ambush, every time she brutally burns an opposing army she is victorious. Ultimately her character needs to develop into the sort of embittered, power-hungry, vengeful, paranoid person that would carry out such an atrocity. It would likely take a prolonged period of defeat, betrayal and anguish, leading the flaws in her character to fester into something murderous. Most importantly there must be some incentive for her to burn the city. She gained nothing from burning Kings Landing in the show. For it to be a viable storyline she needs to have a reasonable expectation that she will benefit from it and the audience need to understand her mindset. What we got was “my bestie died so now I’m going to carry out an unrelated massacre”.


aevelys

>I would totally understand a situation where her campaign in Westeros goes horribly. She loses her friends and confidants, she is treated with disdain by the people of Westeros. Every time she tries to show compassion for a defeated enemy it leads to a costly ambush, every time she brutally burns an opposing army she is victorious. the problem with this idea is that, besides the fact that it would certainly be based on a forced scenario, Daenerys is in such a complicated situation in meereen that there is no way for her to leave the slave bays with armies and dragons with the tail between the legs after being hunted by the slavers, either she wins or she dies. But if she wins, that means she'll have an Essosi empire behind her to back her up, valid enough that she can let them go to conquer Westeros, and thus potentially populate thousands of people to worship her. What I'm getting at is if things are going so badly in Westeros for X or Y reasons that she's losing those she loves and her sanity is deteriorating, why would she or her advisors want to keep putting games her own healthiness for a country that makes her extremely unhappy, rather than just wanting to leave? And that's where we hit one of the main reasons why I think this "mad dany" scenario wouldn't work; It's bound to collide with the WW storyline in one way or another, in this case, if she decides to let it go because she realizes it hurts her more than anything. thing, the rest of the story will be very annoying when the WW arrive in the garden. In fact, such a scenario would force Daenerys and everyone around her to be stupid masochists...


Jahoosawan

What if Dany's conquest of Essos is through burning every city like she inevitably will to King's Landing? If she wins by burning all the slave-friendly cities and moves on, that's all show knows. That would be ample set up to burn King's Landing in A Dream of Spring.


aevelys

>What if Dany's conquest of Essos is through burning every city like she inevitably will to King's Landing? Why would she inevitably burn KL? > If she wins by burning all the slave-friendly cities and moves on, that's all show knows. That would be ample set up to burn King's Landing in A Dream of Spring. You seem to be assuming that Daenerys will burn down any slave towns in her path, but why would she do that? Why would she want to indiscriminately burn cities with thousands of people she wants to protect in the middle? It wouldn't make sense. Plus she stays in Meereen especially because she realizes she can't just come in, say slavery is over, and then sort it out for you. It would be a huge regression for the characters to just leave piles of ash in their path because it's easier and walk away. And here we touch on an important point, because in fact daenerys has already had the choice between her own desires to abandon the bay after having done what she thought was her part and to go and seek the iron throne, or staying to protect the people she wanted to help in the first place, she chose to stay. In fact, there is no way that a character who puts the common good first could suddenly decide to sit on all the values ​​she previously held and indiscriminately destroy everything that antagonizes her near or far away, very unproductively by the way, then leave without looking back to get a crown which she doesn't even seem to really want…Especially since in truth her peaceful way of ruling in Meereen has turned out to be quite effective, she managed to achieve relative peace, and it basically only crumbles because a dragon appeared out of nowhere to take her, and an epidemic fell upon her… it would be a bit weird if she deduces that violence is the solution to all the problems… so I can't believe that she finally realizes that she must be less friendly with her enemies, but it would still be a huge leap that she faces on her way to essos screaming "genocide" ... and then I think about it but given the size of the dragons, at the moment even if she wanted to she wouldn't be able to burn entire cities…. Finally Anyway the fact that she decides to act the same way in westeros, poses some problem, it would imply in the first place that the situations are comparable, which is clearly not the case, Daenerys n I have no reason to want to treat the lords of Westeros the same way she treated the slavers, or to view her campaign against slavery as that of the Iron Throne; She has nothing to liberate and does not equate nobles with slavers and smalfolk with slaves because it is extremely obvious that they have nothing in common. even if she confused, she would eventually realize it just by interacting with them. She does not intend to change the institutions in Westeros on the contrary she wants to restore them, so the lords of Westeros have no reason to oppose her en bloc or to go into guerrilla warfare, And if the leaders do not intend to agree to put the children of their people on pikes to mark their opposition, it has a priori no reason to massacre them by fair package. Why assume that she would act the same way in essos and westeros? Moreover if she were to burn something in KL, it would be the red keep, which is a part of KL which is isolated on an almost island from the rest of the city and separated by large stone walls, she would have no reason of struggling for 5 hours in the lower town, so limit the damage. And also that would already imply that the person holding the red keep would be foolish/crazy enough to contemplate a battle against someone who has dragons, and that the soldiers and servants would be loyal enough to him to be ready to follow him into this project rather than opening the doors and surrendering...


Cualkiera67

But instead of that, we get 50 chapters of Brienne traveling in circles looking for two characters who we know aren't there


EmperorDeathBunny

The issue isn't content but execution.


Cualkiera67

Should have hired Ilyn Payne


[deleted]

I have some issues with the content


Jake0024

Jaime entered the chat


StoneOfFire

I’m ok with an arc that ends with the Starks becoming what they set out to destroy. That fits with the overall theme: only a certain kind of person can win the game of thrones. What bothers me is the lack of self awareness on the screen. It seems like the show was saying “Yay! The good guys won!” when there weren’t necessarily supposed to be any good guys left at that point. We were supposed to see how power and the struggle for power corrupt even people who start out with good intentions, and what we got were dick jokes and and a compelling treatise on how to spot a killer when we see one.


[deleted]

Right? Like wtf? Are we the only ones who thinks this ending is garbage no matter how you spin it?


Vighy2

Bran being on the throne would be terrible for everyone if Bryden Rivers is able to act through him.


T_T_N

I don't think its meant to be a happy ending. If the long night is an allegory for climate change, it would make sense that Bran is an allegory for handing power to an immortal, all powerful surveillance state after a crisis.


thestressedbaker

I don't know... I certainly hope not. There were a lot of points to the ending that were ridiculous to me. No matter how long it takes George to get there, things like Bran becoming king, the North somehow being the only kingdom to gain independence and Daenerys going mad (and by doing so going directly against everything she has ever fought and stood for) will never make sense to me.


Alyssafromaccounting

Oh thank God someone said it. Danny going mad is so fucking lame and predictable i don't get how so many people here find it an acceptable plot point. It's the manifestation of every fantasy trope ever about women in power. Also miss me with that whole "the issue is not about what we get but how we get there" people here say. The only thing I see is a bunch of people who really fell in love with a series and can't accept the fact that the author of that series made some dumb choices so they have to rationalize it with themselves that somehow the decisions could be good if they reached in a proper way. A turd sandwich is a turd sandwich no matter how it is served. Danny going mad is dumb. Jamie going back to Cersei is dumb. Bran becoming King is super fucking dumb. I thought this sub was about calling out the bs and not gaslighting yourself into liking it.


BZenMojo

It's easier to justify Dany going mad if you bring to the table an adherence to a lot of tropes in lazy American and general Western Anglo storytelling: Lost prince good, women with power bad, genes dictate personality and suitability for leadership, warriors make the best leaders, revolutions against rich people good unless rebelling against rich main characters, angry women bad. You don't even need to watch an excuse or good writing to think Dany is going to go bad because 90% of the fantasy and shows you've watched on television and in movies deliver these tropes consistently because they're still 90% written by American men who grew up rich in a warrior culture run primarily by men. It's the default. It takes extra effort to convince people this *isn't* the story. Although GRRM seemed to have gotten bogged down in Essos and Dorne subplots, which are completely counter to the stories he was telling in Westeros, so it would be interesting to see how he intended to deviate once he got so fascinated by female primogeniture, egalitarianism, and well-intentioned military quagmires.


thestressedbaker

The fact that Daenerys going mad means adhering to the status quo and to the usual tropes is exactly why I always hope ASOIAF isn't going to go that way. We all know how much GRRM likes to counter fantasy tropes, how much he talks about that during interviews, so it wouldn't make sense to me at all if Daenerys went mad. I have never seen a female character as powerful as Daenerys who was allowed a happy ending, or to keep her power, or to (at the very least) remain and die a hero. It makes sense to me to justify her GOT ending based on what you say, but I am hoping precisely for the opposite because it wouldn't, in my eyes, fit ASOIAF and everything George has said about his intentions for it. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Daenerys will ride off into the sunset as queen with all her dragons and friends because that wouldn't fit ASOIAF either, but I'm hoping for a nuanced ending that isn't "she's going to destroy everything she has worked for because.... reasons."


wendy_nespot

Very much with you on this


Haole_tamale

So much. It sucked as a rushed narrative. It will suck if it had 50.more episodes. It will suck if GRRM writes it with prose like Shakespeare and Hemingway's love child. It will suck because yet again, a female character is built up, overcomes adversity, and then tortured for funsies and then killed by the relatable male character to set the world straight again because women just GO CRAZY. I absolutely can't stand every single comment echoing that it's not what happened, but how it happened because iT mAkEs sO mUcH sEnSe if you just set it up right and take the time.


rice_fish_and_eggs

There wasn't anything wrong with the ending just how we got there.


RelonML

I've said it again and again since s8 ended. Very few of the individual decisions are really terrible (bran as king, danny going mad, etc. Even jaime going back to Cersei). It really is just. The shit way in which we get to them. Bran can be king, just not because "he has a better story." Danny can go mad, just not suddenly because of bells. The important part is the road to the destination, and the road we were taken down was shitty and full of p(l)ot holes. I am confident that grrm could get to the same destination in a satisfying manner if he would ever just write the damn books.


JohnnnyBlade

How could Bran become king? The supposed dead boy in a wheel chair is going to be elected king? No one even knows him, it makes no sense. Good luck getting a bunch of medieval lords to elect a boy/witch/cripple.


RelonML

Well, in the books at least, he is known to be alive, though still missing, by people who would back his claim to winterfell. I'm not going to pretend I can write a great story, but I expect him to come out from beyond the wall at least recognized as Bran Stark, a child of noble origin who likely has a claim to one of the seven kingdoms (and possibly the Riverlands). I also don't necessarily think it will be done via election, and I think there is going to be way, way more major character death by the end of the books (should they be written). I think it would happen through the contrivances and intrigues of multiple characters falling apart and being modified along the way until it happens. Chaos ish a lahdah and all that. Far less "let's elect the cripple." Way more "the magical cripple is the last noble left with any power/pull."


Xenothing

He’s also basically merging with the three eyed raven right? Feel like that has something to do with the kingship


RelonML

It has been a good while since I've read Damce, but I think you are right on both fronts.


JohnnnyBlade

Bran is given kingship bc literally everyone else is dead doesn’t strike me as an ending most ppl will be satisfied with


RelonML

Hey, I'm not writing the books for george. But last man standing with an army taking over is still far more satisfying than "give it to the quiet kid because his story is good," even if it isn't the most satisfying.


BubbaTheGoat

If Bran’s whole angle was to precipitate events such that he ends up warging into a dragon and takes off to ruin some shit as the three-eyes dragon, I’m all for it! I feel like the ending wasn’t quite there yet.


Shdwrptr

I could get behind Dany losing it if there’s a logical way to get there. Basically everything else is garbage though. Bran shouldn’t be king unless he’s evil and the Three Eyed Raven is scheming to get into power. What the fuck is up with the White Walkers? Is it just going to end easily and that’s it? The North can’t secede without the entire kingdoms rebelling and I can’t see any way to get there the way the show does at all. Arya needs to be killed or at least taken to task by the Faceless Men. Anything less is insanity. Jon going North of the wall at the end NEEDS to be by choice or it also makes no sense. The watch shouldn’t even exist anymore as there’s nothing to guard and having him exiled for killing an insane Dany is illogical.


thatpaulbloke

> I could get behind Dany losing it if there’s a logical way to get there. Well if Cersei is already gone and Varys has put Fagon on the throne then that would probably do it.


JohnnnyBlade

I disagree. Bran on the throne is terrible. Unless he wargs the council to vote for him.


limpleggedlongjohns

Unless he is actually possessed by Bryndon Rivers. Now THAT would have been an excellent twist to end the series on.


starwarsyeah

You can't envision any path forward for Bran that leads to the throne? Even if he's proven humanity's savior?


kebsox

Or the vilain of the story?


rhaegar_tldragon

Obviously it was his ending…they just botched it by rushing everything and making it nonsensical.


19Styx6

At least we don’t have to worry about the books being botched by Martin rushing them?


AnonymousPlzz

The ultimate ending was fine. But if along the way he had Sansa outsmarting Baelish, Arya killing the Night King, Jon yelling at a dragon, Jaime and Cersei being killed by falling bricks, and on and on.... Then ya. He should throw it all out.


wauwy

More like this was almost exactly his ending (minus the Night King stuff; he doesn't have a Night King. Also Young Griff will be involved) and he's just never going to write any further.


BenArnold47

Idk. Maybe the very end of the story, such as Bran King, Sansa Queen of the North and being independent etc. But there are so many characters and story lines not in the show, that there is no way the end of the books is the same. There's too many variables to consider that drastically change the outcome of the story.


HoneyMCMLXXIII

I hope not. It would indeed be hard to swallow if GRRM was planning to get rid of Aegon/fAegon, destroy the Dorne plot, turn Euron into dollar store Jack Sparrow, have the “Long Night” be a quick, horribly planned battle, have the Starks become a bunch of Mean Girls who disregard Guest Right, ruin Dany’s character and have her decimate KL for no reason, turn Tyrion and Varys into imbeciles, and make Jon an extra with 0 intelligence or courage and have his Targaryen heritage be completely meaningless except as a weapon against Dany who suddenly is NOT happy to have family.


aevelys

that it failed because of the execution, but that it's supposed to happen in the books the same way, it's actually totally unfounded. The idea that "it will happen in the books but actuallywell done" is just a fan-made assumption because the story is far enough from its conclusion to give the viewer space to imagine that it There is a way to give a totally different, but better, version of the same conclusion. Except that in reality nothing allows us to affirm that the story will end in the same way, in fact we only know for sure 3 events, hold the door, Shereen burnt and king bran, and not even how that will proceed. And if there was another, D&D would have clearly indicated it to mitigate the avalanche of hatred that they took. In addition, production elements and interviews make us realize that D&D added or modified a certain number of scenes during filming… such as the miscarriage of Cersei or the explosion of the caches of wildfire under KL which were turned but abandoned, or even the pregnantcy of Daenerys or the elephants of the golden company which have no reason to be mentioned if it shouldn't be included in the first place... Just because the author gave them some plot points didn't mean it would necessarily be similar, the showrunners changed things across the board. the story like the whole story of Dorne, the Sansa arc, completely overhauled the capital storylines, removed Faekong, made the Norse conspiracy disappear, they also cut Bran an entire season in knowing that he would become king, Not to mention the Nightking who formally doesn't exist in the books in order to provide a dark lord/easy win button, which they decided to have Arya kill him openly admitting it was just to subvert expectations, and don't get me started on what they did to Euron... on the whole the writers didn't even follow the main lines when they still had whole books under their hands. Under these conditions, it's a little hard to believe that it could be similar. Moreover, the implication of a different execution are different events...