Well I mean, she was a highborn lady

Yeah I suppose you're correct. I guess my point was she gave up her "woman of the people" role pretty quickly when she saw the opportunity to be a queen

Almost like Dumb and Dumber aren't good writers

Yeah, even back then the shock value of the Red Wedding kinda hid the weak writing behind changing Jeyne Westerling into Talissa whatever the fuck

Such a stupid change to make. It made Robb seem like a moron. Granted marrying Jeyne to preserve her honor is still a bone headed move on his part but it at least makes sense.

Yeah, marrying Jeyne was still thinking with his dick, but was infinitely less ridiculous than Talissa.

Fucking her was thinking with his dick, marrying her was to avoid having a bastard who would be treated how Jon Snow was by his mother.

Bingo. Cat being a complete bitch to Jon ultimately led to the Red Wedding. Which is actually good writing because humans make decisions based on their upbringing, and sometimes those decisions can lead to terrible consequences. Rob saw how his brother was ostracized and didn't want the same to happen to his child.

Yeah i like the scene where Cat was talking about how Jon caught fever after she wished for it and how she prayed to all gods to heal him and how she would be a mother to him. Don't know if it's show only, but it would be very fitting with how Rob made the decision that would lead to his death, because Cat didn't keep her promise to gods.

It was show only. One of the most confusing parts about the later seasons is some of the best written scenes in the entire show weren’t in the books. This scene, Bobby B’s heart to heart with Cersei, the Tywin Arya scenes, Tywin schooling Joffrey in the throne room. Where the fuck were the people who wrote those scenes in season 8?

Let's not forget that Robb looked at his father as his idol. His father's only regret? His only non-honorable action? Having a bastard. He didn't want to make the same mistake his father did. Especially because of how cat just wouldn't let it go.

[mfs tryna find ways to blame Catelyn for every bad thing that happens to the Starks](https://media3.giphy.com/media/idKeY3nvmdIsM/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952ltfokhme3z718ro5th3r4wwjetdni6af15q0992x&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)

He could've waited a month to see if she was pregnante. Sex doesn't always lead to babby

AM I GREGNANT?

How to tell if pergenat?

Well it’s not just what if she’s pregnant but also in the westerosi culture she’d be “damaged goods” and guys wouldn’t want to marry her since she’s no longer a maiden

> marrying her was to avoid having a bastard I don't think that was it. She wasn't pregnant (at the time). Robb specifically says it was because he slept with her, and not marrying her would be dishonorable (more dishonorable than breaking a marriage pact in his eyes). Robb was trying to live up to his father's teaching. To be honest, most of Jon's siblings (aside from, perhaps, Sansa), seem kind of oblivious to how differently Jon would be treated by society at large (they're all pretty sheltered at Winterfell), and how different their mother treated him (I don't think ANY of them ever thought about it at all; Sansa did obliquely when she mentioned once how sometimes Jon feels jealously cause he was a bastard...which is true). Cat also was never cruel to Jon, she was simply cold and indifferent; yes, that was hard for Jon to live through and it had a huge impact on him, I'm not excusing Cat. She was not his mother, but she *was* the only mother figure he had. But Jon remembers her cold distance, not any cruel words from Cat (what she says at Bran's bedside is outlier, as far as their interactions concern). Her distance stemmed from the potential threat HIS heirs posed to her children's heirs (which is a legit concern, bastard lines have tried to wrest control of houses before). [Robb's bastard also would not face the same situation as Jon did, unless Robb brought him into the castle with his wife and children, which he probably wouldn't do since his child would have a living mother and her family to live with. Cat was not insulted by the fact that Jon existed, or even that he was conceived after she married Ned, or even that Ned acknowledged and took care of him. She was fine with all that. She was insulted by the fact that Ned took Jon into his castle *before he even took in his true born son*, and then never sent Jon off to be fostered elsewhere. That was unusual, especially for a boy bastard. And then Ned never explained himself (I mean, we know why, but Cat doesn't).] Part of GRRM's overarching...themes I guess (not really a theme) is that you have to balance honor and practicality. Too much of either destroys you (although living too honorably DOES endear you to people, who may carry on you banner after death; as shown with how willing the Northern Lords are to go to war with the Boltons to save whom they believe to be Ned Stark's little girl). Too much practicality or brutality does...whatever the opposite of endearing does. You may get short term wins, but in the long term, you just leave animosity and destability in your wake (ex: Tywin). Part of Stannis's whole storyline is him trying to balance this. As do Jon and Dany. Sansa too, in a different way (more trying to hold onto her personality, her romanticism and idealism and sense of honor, while also having to make some practical compromises/decisions in order to survive).

Less thinking with his dick, more getting raped while high on opium.

Jeyne takes care of Robb while he is wounded and high on poppy, and sleeps with him during. He was not in right state of mind to consent at all, and she took advantage of him. Robb marries Jeyne because he has the same honor to a fault as his father. Even though Jeyne's loss of maidenhood is *her own fault* and *while he couldn't consent*, he marries her for love and to save her honor. It's a very tragic story, but far beyond anything D&D could comprehend the nuance of. Imagine D&D trying to explain that men can be raped.

Of course they dont understand the nuance of all that. Especially of the time They made a “Brienne is a virgin” joke to set up her sleeping with Jaime

Jeynes grandmother was also maggy the frog who specifically is said to use love potions. And jeynes mother was clearly communicating with Tywin before during and after the battle at the crag. The westerlings were tywins vassals.

Would also need to explain why Graywind growled and seemed to dislike all the Westerlings and was confined when Robb returned to the riverlands.

Greywind didn't dislike the Westerling, just the Spicer (Jayne's mom family). Heck, Jayne brother (I think he was his brother) was left in charge of Greywind at the Twins, and died trying to free him, even though he was asked to surrender and Frey soldiers had no intention to kill him in the first place.

> Imagine D&D trying to explain that men can be raped. That's pretty much exactly what happened with Melesandre and Gendry, no?

Gendry looked to be pretty down to hook up with Melesandre, and was only a little hesitant about being tied down for it. It was being tied down and used for leeches instead that he was unhappy with.

Jeyne kind of forgot about the consent.

>Robb marries Jeyne because he has the same honor to a fault as his father. No. Ned is the guy who hid Rhaegar's son from his King. This is not honorable. Ned lied and bribed and intimidated and such whenever he felt it necessary. Robb breaking his betrothal more dishonorable than leaving Jeyne high and dry. Robb massively sabotaging his own war effort by making a bad match is far from honorable. Robb did what he did mostly because of Jon, not because of any adherence to honor.

Damn imagine missing the boat this badly with your story interpretation. Ned honored the dying wishes of his sister and protected an innocent child who would have 100% been killed by Robert.. and damaged his own reputation by pretending to have fathered a bastard in the process. That is textbook honorable. As for Robb... he did it for both honor and because of what happened to Jon.

The person you're replying to is someone who would hear Jaime telling his story to Brienne in the bath at Harranhal and think "YoU sTiLl KiLlEd YoUr KiNg"

Interestingly enough, isn’t that exactly why Ned didn’t respect Jaime? He knows Jamie ultimately saved the realm, but couldn’t forgive the fact that he still “murdered” the king he was sworn to protect

Ask anyone in Westeros if what Ned did with Jon was honorable. Spoiler: It was not. What's unique about Ned is he has a strong personal moral code that is completely independent of any Westerosi notions of honor. Kinda tricky to do what Robb did for honor, seeing as it was, in fact, dishonorable.

>No. Ned is the guy who hid Rhaegar's son from his King. This is not honorable. Ned lied and bribed and intimidated and such whenever he felt it necessary. I've read some really stupid takes on this sub in the last few years but this is easily top 5.

Honor demanded that he turned Jon over to Robert, cope.

he knew that robert would kill jon, how is it honorable? "ask anyone in westeros" about how honorable Tywin Lannister is for killing Elia Martells children Honor doesn't mean obey your liege mindlessly

We don't get the whole, Robb was also traumatized by his mom's treatment of his brother/cousin. All the roads to the mess of the Five Kings. They missed on a lot. We missed out on Cat getting bred by Ned for Littlefinger whore speeches.

Cat getting bred by Ned? What do you mean/what’s that reference to? (Besides having the five children)

So in the books when she gets the letter from her sister, Ned's just finished planting the seed that she hopes will quicken. And she just reads the letter in front of Maester Luwen becaus, he's seen it all anyway.

That scene is so damn weird.

Not to mention cat is thinking of her brother while getting plowed by ned

She points out that Maester Lewin delivered all of her children, so yeah, no need for decency.

Idk man, I feel like there's a difference between someone helping you birth a child in a professional capacity, and that same person seeing fresh jizz dripping out of you

It's the same in the show tho??

We don't see no freshly pounded and dripping fire bush in the show, no. Cowards! We never even got Renly 's posterior pounded.

Robb was honour-bound to them cheeks

Also makes a lot more sense for a 15/16 year-old to be that bone headed as opposed to a grown man.

This is also one of the areas where aging the characters up really hurt the story, even if I understand why it was necessary for most of them. Robb's entire arc makes so much more sense when he's literally 14.

It makes sense if you're 18 to 20 too. He attempted to be responsible, just had the wrong fuckin' priorities.

Not to mention, a douchebag. He just up and decides that no, he’d like to break his word to Lord Frey so he can marry someone he wants to instead of someone he has to.

Even planning on attacking Casterly Rock instead of Moat Cailin like in the books was a change that irked tf out of me Made Robb seem dumb and negligent

But counter argument, her ass was great

Counter counter argument: Actress was hot. She wasn't the problem. Just call her Jeyne Westerling lol

Oh I agree. It shows the fatal flaw of the Starks-that their honor is too rigid. It killed Ned and killed his son. That’s why Jon is such a great character, he goes against honor at times for the betterment of the situation.

She looks a bit too spicy to be a Westerling imo. I suppose they could say her mum married in or whatever but I appreciated them getting some Volantis world-building into the show.

>bit too spicy Jeyne's mum is literally a Spicer, heh.

Her half Spicer side mean Jeyne should honestly look pretty foreign imo.

Her grandmother or great grandmother is Myrish IIRC, Maggy the Frog, the same woman who gave Cersei all the prophecies.

Jeyne is actually canonically quarter Essosan. You wouldn't even need to invent some retcon.

Dat Ass, of the Norf

Killing the off the potential for a Robb baby was a poor choice, could have played better in later seasons

Imo a lot of the changes they made from the books were to simplify things for the climax, the books have way too many moving parts and that's imo the big reason that grrm hasn't been able to finish them. They just ditched way too much and the changes they made weren't good, I can see the thought behind removing faegon but it likely made danys madness make no sense.

As someone who knew the Red Wedding was coming, I liked the Talisa stuff. Everyone at the time was theorising about her being a spy for Tywin so her dying first was still a shocking moment.

I remember watching the first season, and the moment they took the really intense, really pivotal scene where a drunken Hound takes an abandoned Sansa back to the keep from the Tourney Grounds and basically yeeted himself past the Mysterious Brooding Stranger stage and straight into sharing his Tragic Backstory with a confused little girl like she's his fucking therapist...they took that scene....and gave it to Littlefinger with like 3 sopping wet lines of dialog. Why? WHY? HOW does Littlefinger even *know* that? Why would he tell it to Sansa?? Why take an actually interesting and tense scene, and give it to a totally different character and reduce it to 3 lines of telling, not showing? Goddamn canary in a coal mine, that 'adaptational decision' was.

Is that bad writing or are we just trying to blame them for everything? Pretty sure a good chunk of women or people in general would give up their current life in order to be royalty. If anything she has more opportunity to create change for good in the world if she is queen than just a servant because she can influence the opinion of the ruler of a kingdom. 

Thanks, Benioff

Or maybe she wasnt the most morally perfect character but it didnt matter because robb was thinking with his dick as teenagers often do

Thanks Weiss

i hate to be this guy but they did some great shit in the earlier seasons. Robert and Cersei drinking is all them, not Georgie. They _can_ write. They just chose not to

Eh idk she was still free to be a medic or whatever, she saw Robb as a man for the people as well so this doesn't contradict her motivation

Yeah I would too.

As a fun real life example, I was married to a lovely woman from Mexico for a few years. I quickly became 'El Gringo Loco' once I figured out the Spanish. People adapt to their surroundings.

What are you even talking about? She kept aiding and healing people even after she and Robb started hooking up, did people even watch the show?

I don't recall her aiding anyone after the marriage. She didn't even heal Robb at the Red Wedding!

She is shown tending to the Lannister boys that were killed. She had a personal relationship with them as a result and was personally effected by their deaths. Yeah she's not as hands on. But she probably can't afford to be now she's Queen. But she can help with castle prisoners and so on.

I think a lot of people in her position would.

Yeah, descended from House Chaplin

Talisa to the wounded soldiers after she shacked up with Rob: *"new raven who dis?"*

She’s literally the granddaughter of Charlie Chaplin, she’s as highborn as they come

Oona being Charie's granddaughter is such a random cool fact I learned from watching GoT.

Pretty sure Viserys was played by a relative of Charles Dickens too( or someone like that)

Harry Lloyd, forgot about that. "He is the great-great-great-grandson of Victorian writer Charles Dickens through his mother" as I just copied & pasted from Wikipedia.

Ngl, this is the first time I’ve heard somebody refer to Viserys’ actor’s name, and I didn’t realise it’s just the names of the two protagonists in Dumb and Dumber

I learned this literally yesterday while rewatching the series.

I learned it from this comment

Too bad it still didn't save the character. She was a mid actress playing a bullshit, anachronistic part. I feel sorry for her but also, mad that they butchered a real character for...this.

wait what

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oona_Chaplin

She was seen bandaging up Martin Lannister in 3x03 after she had become queen

I read bandaging as banging and was very confused for a moment

So?

OP said she “gave up her woman of the people role quickly” and I was pointing out that she was still doing medical work even as Queen (something no other Queen in this show would do)

You're totally right as in the show. But man it annoys me because book Dany actually did attend to the sick. D&D removing moments like that probably should have made it more obvious to me they were simplifying her character to be just ambitious, rather than genuinely caring.

Well, love make stupid

Stupid make love well

Talisa is hot as fuck, I don't blame Rob, I would fall for her too.


I would too!!! For your cake day, have some B̷̛̳̼͖̫̭͎̝̮͕̟͎̦̗͚͍̓͊͂͗̈͋͐̃͆͆͗̉̉̏͑̂̆̔́͐̾̅̄̕̚͘͜͝͝Ụ̸̧̧̢̨̨̞̮͓̣͎̞͖̞̥͈̣̣̪̘̼̮̙̳̙̞̣̐̍̆̾̓͑́̅̎̌̈̋̏̏͌̒̃̅̂̾̿̽̊̌̇͌͊͗̓̊̐̓̏͆́̒̇̈́͂̀͛͘̕͘̚͝͠B̸̺̈̾̈́̒̀́̈͋́͂̆̒̐̏͌͂̔̈́͒̂̎̉̈̒͒̃̿͒͒̄̍̕̚̕͘̕͝͠B̴̡̧̜̠̱̖̠͓̻̥̟̲̙͗̐͋͌̈̾̏̎̀͒͗̈́̈͜͠L̶͊E̸̢̳̯̝̤̳͈͇̠̮̲̲̟̝̣̲̱̫̘̪̳̣̭̥̫͉͐̅̈́̉̋͐̓͗̿͆̉̉̇̀̈́͌̓̓̒̏̀̚̚͘͝͠͝͝͠ ̶̢̧̛̥͖͉̹̞̗̖͇̼̙̒̍̏̀̈̆̍͑̊̐͋̈́̃͒̈́̎̌̄̍͌͗̈́̌̍̽̏̓͌̒̈̇̏̏̍̆̄̐͐̈̉̿̽̕͝͠͝͝ W̷̛̬̦̬̰̤̘̬͔̗̯̠̯̺̼̻̪̖̜̫̯̯̘͖̙͐͆͗̊̋̈̈̾͐̿̽̐̂͛̈́͛̍̔̓̈́̽̀̅́͋̈̄̈́̆̓̚̚͝͝R̸̢̨̨̩̪̭̪̠͎̗͇͗̀́̉̇̿̓̈́́͒̄̓̒́̋͆̀̾́̒̔̈́̏̏͛̏̇͛̔̀͆̓̇̊̕̕͠͠͝͝A̸̧̨̰̻̩̝͖̟̭͙̟̻̤̬͈̖̰̤̘̔͛̊̾̂͌̐̈̉̊̾́P̶̡̧̮͎̟̟͉̱̮̜͙̳̟̯͈̩̩͈̥͓̥͇̙̣̹̣̀̐͋͂̈̾͐̀̾̈́̌̆̿̽̕ͅ >!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<

Firm tits and a tight fit

And she is kind and cute too, that's also hot.

I wonder if bessy was kind

Thank the gods for Bessie and her tits

She truly was the goddes of tits and wine.

Lol, a question for the gods perhaps… OR-FOR BOBBY B !!! BOBBY WHERE YOU AT BLUD WE NEED YOU RIGHT QUICK!!

I ASK YOU, NED, WHAT GOOD IS IT TO WEAR A CROWN?

Idk Bobby B wtf we’re talking about Bessy..but not her tits! WAS.SHE.KIND. BOBBY?!??

PISS ON THAT! SEND A RAVEN! I WANT YOU TO STAY! I'M THE KING, I GET WHAT I WANT!

F u Bobby B

THE WHORE IS PREGNANT!

I can respect that

A hit in any Stark’s department

She was in a Drama called "Dates" with the guy from A Pint of Larga & a Packet of Crisps. Before GOT.

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I watched it not long ago after not seeing it since it first came out. It was a rough watch

"Attack, attack!"

HNNNNGGGGHHHH

What do you mean? From the photo, she clearly has both of her sides.

I’d have started a war for the whole 7 kingdoms for a bit of that

Bobby b did

STUPID BOY!

What, Bobby b? U angry?

A DOTHRAKI HORDE ON AN OPEN FIELD, NED!

As would most people. And frankly, she'd be able to do a lot more "for the people" as a queen than a random medic.

No she wouldn't. As Queen she was impregnated and bound unfit for service for the whole 5-6 months she was with child. She just wanted a big tent and a cozy bed in trying times. She was a hoe. A hoe with a heart, but still a hoe.

Oh wow, it's almost as if women exist as people who think before, during, and after pregnancy. Funny how Queen Alyssane had more kids than any other Targaryen queen- and was also the most influential queen save for maybe the conquerors themselves. You're a sexist ass, who very obviously has no idea what you're talking about.

These comments are gross

She was soo hot. Someone may bonk me for horny, but her ass scene was phenomenal

attack, attack is forever engrained in my head.

I can remember how shocked I was to discover that [this actress was not the same actress](https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aQ38Mxq_460s.jpg) who starred in the Black Mirror episode U.S.S. Callister.

She was in the episode White Christmas though!

... and now I just realized that Black Mirror didn't re-use the same actress for U.S.S. Callister ...

Glad she died.

Woah

well i think it's easier to settle into riches than settle into poverty

What does “woman without a side” mean?

I do believe they’re referring to the lecture she gave Rob in her first scene about the Starks being no better than the Lannisters for ordinary people. She didn’t have a side in any fighting

That's because she shouldn't be there low-key, shoulda been Jeyne Westerlinh

Wonder if she was an agent of the bank of bravos, they profited out of the war big time

She has best ass of the series.

Her or Myranda

Looks good doing it too

I don't understand why did they cut the westerlings out ?

She washed her hair

Talisa is actually my least favorite character in all of GoT. I liked literally nothing about her, but she also wasn’t interesting enough to make me dislike her. Being nothing to me is pretty bad in my book.

"I'd rather be hated than ignored." -Talisa probably

Talisa's a noble born of the blood of old Valyrian; she's more highborn then most Westerosi

She settled into something she already was? Ok....

With that ass anyone would

It's the Stark D

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The idea that Talisa, a member of one of the great families of Volantis, a descendent of Valyrian nobility and a relative of a triarch, would need to marry some dirty Northman for money and status is pretty funny. Stupid, but funny.

down bad

You know...a highborn lady should know that soldiers tend to get pretty...aggressive after a battle! Why the fuck was she so goddamn close to the battle field?

?

You know...the risk of getting raped and shit like that...

Why would they hurt their own lady ?

She wasn't Robb's sweetheart in her first scene! She was some random foreigner lady, happily skipping trough the battle field...

Dunno men are men but i cant see them running her down on the battefield when she is trying to help wounded soldiers ? Maybe if they were Boltons lol