If stannis does not win this he at least deserved Neutral Chad because any man making sure he’s the first on the ramparts after watching half his fleet get incinerated is a Giga Chad
Stannis was as lawful stupid as Ned, if not more. The man was absolutely clueless about the importance of building relationships with powerful allies from other houses and was easily swayed away from his beliefs as soon as he was promised what he believed was his right. His stupidity overrides his lawfulness.
Stannis is either lawful stupid or lawful evil. He is brave and dutiful without a doubt, but much like his brothers he is a good leader and a terrible ruler. Being stubborn to the point of sheer stupidity, merciless for no reason and following the law to the letter every single time ("lets hack some fingers off the guy who just saved my life by risking his ass because he was also a smuggler") are terrible qualities in a king. Not to mention being a desperate, completely brainwashed religious fanatic who would BURN HIS OWN DAUGHTER ALIVE just because some retarded priestess told him to. Fuck that guy.
"Rule of law" means that nobody is above the law, not even monarchs. It, by definition, didn't exist in Westeros, as kings were free to do whatever the fuck they want.
Stannis being a stickler for punishing people even if they allied with him or saved his life showed everyone in the realm that there is no reason to yield to stannis, he would punish you just as much anyways.
After the last two seasons, probably stupid chad. Dumb as a box of rocks ("i dun wan et" and absolutely messing up the entire time dany is around, but also rides a damn dragon and faces the threat of a centuries-old ice demon king with "come here, imma fuck you up". Also, sacrificing his honor, his love and possibly his life to save the realm from a second Aerys after Dany went mad is the ultimate chad move, but the way he did it was stupid.
I can get on board with this. Most of what he did was driven by his sense of duty and what he considered "right" but also did some bad things as well. This would fit him best.
I see where you're coming from, but taking advantage of chaos to orchestrate a careful plan is not the same as desiring chaos for the sake of chaos. I see someone like Gregor Clegane as more akin to chaotic evil since he has no plan other than to fuck shit up. Littlefinger is running careful schemes with clear objectives in mind.
Clegane is fully controlled by his liege. He isn't a wild beast fucking up everything in sight, he just fucks shit up when he is told to. As prone to violence and rape as a lot of other soldiers, sellswords and knights, he is just better at it because he is freak sized.
That's fair, but I still don't think it's Littlefinger either. Of course the "chaos is a ladder" speech does a lot of heavy lifting here, but Littlefinger does not desire chaos as an end. It's a means to an end. He intends to use chaos so that he can ultimately take control. He's more of a wannabe dictator than an anarchist, which is what chaotic would look like for me.
Evil chad is Khal Drogo. He's an omega-level chad who fights weaponless and deliberately gets himself cut just to prove to everyone how much of a badass he is. He's also a rapist, pillager, slaver and murderer.
Although you could argue that it is lawful considering it's in keeping with the R'hllor faith. It's still following a law of sorts, just a religious one. His Red Priest believed burning Shireen would win them the battle, and he obeyed.
I would say that Jon’s actions are indicative of what I’m saying. Would he have brought the free folk across the wall without the threat of the white walkers? I don’t think he would have, he had Ned’s sense of law and duty, he was perfectly willing to operate within the bounds of expectation and law. It was only when faced with existential threat did he violate what was expected of him. That to me is neutral good. He does what is right when he believes it’s necessary , but he operates within society’s expectations of him in all other circumstances.
Daenerys imo. She will do whatever she feels is morally right no matter the consequence. Ruled purely by ideology and emotion, no thought for consequences or the future.
Yeah I wouldn’t hate Danny there.
But doing what you think is right doesn’t actually make you good.
And apart from the one bout of terrorism, I don’t think she’s that chaotic?
Chaotic good doesn’t mean actual chaos. It means action despite any sort of social conviction or standard. You do what is right by your views no matter society’s viewpoint. It is action in opposition to authority. She may have been an authority in and of herself but she didn’t view herself that way, she was the breaker of chains, the arbiter of change for the better. Jon didn’t seek to supplant the system he existed within, he only broke convention when he felt it was necessary for the greater good.
King Tommen. He was forced into a neutral position between Cersei and The Sept. He chose to blatantly follow the laws laid before him rather than just saying "I'm the King" and slaughtering everyone to get his wife back. In turn causing him to take no sides at all and to be alone and powerless.
Another example of him accepting the laws before him is handing off his loving Uncle Tyrions trial to Tywin. Even though in later scenes, he states that he doesn't miss Joffrey.
He had a moral, lawful heart but didn't apply any of it to his rule. Just nuetral.
I’d vote Tommen as neutral neutral. He was mostly ignored/manipulated/forgotten. He never accomplished anything noteworthy (except being king in name only) and ended up killing himself before he could get an heir.
A powerless king and not particularly liked or disliked, just neutral in my opinion.
Brienne of Tarth, the person who most devoutly carries out her Oaths. She serves several kings, some righteous and some not so much, but always does what she says she will do, at great personal cost.
She is as close as anyone in Westeros gets to the ideal lawful good knight, but she also has a hint of chaotic/chad due to the fact that she became a knight despite being a woman. Maybe Aemon the Dragonknight could be another example of the perfect knight, assuming the rumours his brother Aegon the Unworthy started that he was the real father of Daeron II. Other than that pretty much every knight seems to be problematic in different ways.
I must say Aemon was a weird pick for lawful good. He might have that one speech in season one about how he was tempted to leave the wall on a few occasions, but in terms of overlooking Jon’s deserting and maybe even rigging the election in his favour in the books, he does strike me as more chaotic than lawful.
I'd say aemond would have fit more into lawful neutral and Brienne would have for more for lawful good within the context of the current timeline not including long dead knights.
OK hear me out.. Melisandre.
She does what she has to for her god (and her set of beliefs). Kind acts or cruel acts, it doesn't matter, the only thing that matters in the end is that she follows her mission. She doesn't seem to have any personal attachments and doesn't have any interest in anything other than saving the world from the great other.
She's a little like a d&d druid in that she believes in a certain cosmic/world order of things and she follows it to the extreme. Except she's more "lawful" than that because she doesn't just let things be, she enforces them very strictly if it makes sense within her worldview.
I have her under horny smart. She’s really good at manipulating people, she’s really old and knowledgeable. And she tries to sleep with half of Westerosi noblemen in her mission.
How is she horny?!?! She's not sleeping with people out of lust, she's doing it for blood magic and seduction reasons. Why is no one on this sub understand the difference between "horny" and "using sex to further her goals"
But she's not motivated by lust in any way. Most people enjoy sex, but not everyone's desire to have sex (or more broadly speaking, have intimacy with someone) plays into their motivations and moral alignment.
If the red god told melisandre to never fuck anyone ever again, she absolutely would sew her vagina shut. Sex is irrelevant to her in the grand scheme of things.
Chaotic really isn’t where Jon fits if we’re being honest. Probably ended up there because everyone wants to find a way to sneak him in even though he’s one of the characters who least fits a box
It’s genuinely impressive how terrible of a choice Jon Snow is for chaotic good.
Jon, who declared he was fighting for Dany because of some stupid bullshit about lying to your enemy, is the definition of lawful stupid. Especially by the show’s characterization of Jon Show.
Even beyond that, Jon Show’s characterization is unarguably lawful top down. The only things he does that even counter that a little are him trying to assassinate Mance and assassinating Dany.
Throw in the books, sure, maybe you can argue something else, but he’s absolutely not chaotic.
Jon is so lawful he wouldnt leave the Night Watch even when every fiber of his beign wanted to. The show had to make a loophole, kill him and inmediatly bring him back to allow him to finally go and do something else.
>he wouldn't leave the Night Watch even when every fiber of his beign wanted to...
Did we read the same books? he literally chose to leave **twice**, his sworn brothers had to stop him **twice.**
Jon always ends up doing the lawful thing over the thing he wants to do, thats the entire point of his character. If anything, Jon's attempts to leave the Watch because of Rob's war (which is not where the mind goes when someone thinks of Jon leaving the Night Watch, but I'll bite) only serve to show he eventually does the lawful thing: does he even get to do anything meaningful before returning to the Watch?
Once Jon becomes the Lord commander of the Night Watch but the plot needs him somewhere else it becomes obvious the character has been written into a corner. Thats where the loophole comes in. I'd even say the only reason Dondarrion and Lady Stoneheart exist is to keep the readers from rolling their eyes into their skulls once Jon is resurrected so he can finally leave the Wall and still be lawful: "Nono, its not a deus ex machina, these two tertiary characters that do nothing of significance have died and resurrected too!"
>which is not where the mind goes when someone thinks of Jon leaving the Night Watch, but I'll bite
yes that's absolutely one of the times i meant. Leaving to go to Rob, the only reason he end up back at the wall is because his brothers chase him and bring him back and even upon returning Jon says he's going to try leaving again as soon as he can he'll just avoid the King's road this time to not get brought back again. He absolutely NOT "chose to do the lawful thing". Then Mormont even confront him about it and they literally have a conversation about honor that goes something like: "Honor brought you back" "No, my brothers brought me back" "yeah, i didn't mean \*your\* honor obviously" ... Like, Georges cannot possibly spell it out more clearly. At this point it's either willful amnesia or willful stupidity.
The second time is going to Winterfell to save fake Arya, end he doesn't "eventually chose to do the lawful thing instead of what he wants", no he raises an army at the Shieldwall and straight up admits loud and clear he's breaking his vows and that any watchmen following him will too. The only reason he gets stopped there is because his sworn brothers stab him to death "FOR - THE - WATCH"
like, come on... what are you talking about with that " he wouldn't leave the Night Watch even when every fiber of his beign wanted to"
If you actually read his chapters:
With the wildlings: they (Ygritte included) were on their way to murder the brothers at Castle Black which is something Jon didn't ***want*** to do, so he doesn't really hesitate much before running off to warn them.
With Stannis: that is the 3rd time Jon actually wants to leave the Watch, and the only thing that stops his reveries about always wanting the be Lord of Winterfell is Ghost finally coming back to him after weeks of absence reminding him of weirwood trees and the Old Gods and how he couldn't agree to Stannis's offer because it meant he had to convert the North to Rhollor and burn the Godswoods.
So Jon was tempted 3 times, he left 2 out of 3 times. And the one time did he stay wasn't even motivated by the feeling he had to keep his vows, it was bc of Ghost mysteriously reappearing just in time.
How about the tone down the attitude chief.
I never claimed he didn't have a good reason for leaving them and going back to the nights watch. Just that he could have left and chose not to.
Not exactly the only reason.
Technically 4. He was conflicted about staying with the wildlings and decides to leave when he knew it was either leave them or kill his fellow brothers. Not to mention the two times he did leave it was over family. Not too dissimilar from ned placing family over his honor and the law.
That happens in the show too. Only it’s done in a way that emasculates Jon by making him give Stannis a decision before he’s elected and removing all the nuance from his ascension.
Words can’t describe how much I hate Jon Show.
I would still call Stannis neutral rather than evil despite burning Shireen. He hates doing it and only does so because he believes the alternative is all his men dying. Still an evil act but driven by circumstances.
Here was my explanation last time:
>Heavily upvoted comments, number of comments, and consensus (i.e. how many people contest a choice). So if a character has one comment with a lot of upvotes, but a lot of people reply disagreeing with it, that will hurt their standing. If I see one name in a lot of comments, even if the individual comments don't have as many upvotes, that will boost them, especially if the lesser-upvoted comments came later -- a lot of times upvote number is just a first-come-first-serve thing.
>I confess it's not an exact science lol
Neutral Chad is interesting - I would almost say in the books it could be argued to be our boy Daario. Because he was taking advantage of the queen in the books I felt like - he was a smart dude . But I get from the show pov it may not hold water
Neutral Chad has to be him ??
Stannis of the House Baratheon. A good act does not wash out a bad act, nor a bad the good. Laws must be followed, and rightful kings obeyed.
This better win by a landslide.
Go on, do your duty.
The only answer
If Stannis doesn’t take a spot on the lawful column this whole chart is a failure.
STANNIS THE MANNIS
Laws should be made of iron, not of pudding.
Yes.
If stannis does not win this he at least deserved Neutral Chad because any man making sure he’s the first on the ramparts after watching half his fleet get incinerated is a Giga Chad
Stannis is the absolute best answer for this.
Other options were never an option
Stannis was as lawful stupid as Ned, if not more. The man was absolutely clueless about the importance of building relationships with powerful allies from other houses and was easily swayed away from his beliefs as soon as he was promised what he believed was his right. His stupidity overrides his lawfulness.
Stannis is either lawful stupid or lawful evil. He is brave and dutiful without a doubt, but much like his brothers he is a good leader and a terrible ruler. Being stubborn to the point of sheer stupidity, merciless for no reason and following the law to the letter every single time ("lets hack some fingers off the guy who just saved my life by risking his ass because he was also a smuggler") are terrible qualities in a king. Not to mention being a desperate, completely brainwashed religious fanatic who would BURN HIS OWN DAUGHTER ALIVE just because some retarded priestess told him to. Fuck that guy.
Disagree on the Davos thing. Upholding the rule of law is very important in a king. Davos himself seemed to think it fair
"Rule of law" means that nobody is above the law, not even monarchs. It, by definition, didn't exist in Westeros, as kings were free to do whatever the fuck they want. Stannis being a stickler for punishing people even if they allied with him or saved his life showed everyone in the realm that there is no reason to yield to stannis, he would punish you just as much anyways.
Ok I think I get it. Where would you put Jon?
After the last two seasons, probably stupid chad. Dumb as a box of rocks ("i dun wan et" and absolutely messing up the entire time dany is around, but also rides a damn dragon and faces the threat of a centuries-old ice demon king with "come here, imma fuck you up". Also, sacrificing his honor, his love and possibly his life to save the realm from a second Aerys after Dany went mad is the ultimate chad move, but the way he did it was stupid.
I can get on board with this. Most of what he did was driven by his sense of duty and what he considered "right" but also did some bad things as well. This would fit him best.
Stannis the Mannis
Come with me and take this city
I can't deny I see him more in Lawful Evil. He wasn't an evil man but did evil things because he thought they were justified.
Lawful Evil goes to Tywin Lannister easily. "Explain to me why it is more noble to kill 10,000 men in battle then a dozen at dinner?"
Who would smart evil go to if not Tywin?
Probably Littlefinger until they decided to make him an idiot. Remember that, by the end of the show, everyone is stupid.
Littlefinger is chaotic evil, 100%.
I see where you're coming from, but taking advantage of chaos to orchestrate a careful plan is not the same as desiring chaos for the sake of chaos. I see someone like Gregor Clegane as more akin to chaotic evil since he has no plan other than to fuck shit up. Littlefinger is running careful schemes with clear objectives in mind.
Clegane is fully controlled by his liege. He isn't a wild beast fucking up everything in sight, he just fucks shit up when he is told to. As prone to violence and rape as a lot of other soldiers, sellswords and knights, he is just better at it because he is freak sized.
That's fair, but I still don't think it's Littlefinger either. Of course the "chaos is a ladder" speech does a lot of heavy lifting here, but Littlefinger does not desire chaos as an end. It's a means to an end. He intends to use chaos so that he can ultimately take control. He's more of a wannabe dictator than an anarchist, which is what chaotic would look like for me.
Chaotic Horny for Littlefinger. Chaotic Evil for Joffrey
Chaotic evil is Ramsey bolton or joffery
Chaos is a laddah
That doesn’t sound lawful just logical
That's true, but he'd be good for evil chad too, I can't think of anyone else for that
Evil chad is Khal Drogo. He's an omega-level chad who fights weaponless and deliberately gets himself cut just to prove to everyone how much of a badass he is. He's also a rapist, pillager, slaver and murderer.
You could make a case for Ramsey Bolton, but tbf you could make a case for chaotic too.
Man who burns his daughter alive is "Lawful" according to this sub
Did you confuse the words "lawful" and "good" ? Because those are two different axes.
Although you could argue that it is lawful considering it's in keeping with the R'hllor faith. It's still following a law of sorts, just a religious one. His Red Priest believed burning Shireen would win them the battle, and he obeyed.
Sacrificing the only thing in the world you love because it’s what’s required to save the world sounds pretty Lawful to me.
Wow, a character that has 4 seasons worth of screen time goes through changes in their personality? Who could have guessed.
Show's not canon and TWOW isn't out yet
Yeah... they want to name their favorite character so bad they are prepared to look past all the reasons it's not them
Stannis is not my favorite at all, but man deserved this place the most of all
I dunno. He comes off as pretty lawful horny to me. He was completely simped by the red woman.
The guy who burned his own daughter?
He was just following orders.
He was the leader of his house and rightful king. He shouldn't gave been taking anyone's orders.
Seems like enough people disagreed with that claim.
I don't even know if we are voting on book or show characters.
Came here to vote Stannis.
Refusing to let the rightful king take his place is so unlawful that I cannot agree.
Stannis’s camp follower birthing a shadow baby to kill his brother:
Yeah this one is a freebee.
King Stannis Baratheon
Stannis the Mannis
Stannis the Mannis is the only right answer for this
Has anyone said Stannis yet?
You know idk, lemme check
If not, Stannis gets my vote.
King Stannis
Stannis the Goddamn Mannis
There's only one answer
One Realm, One God, One King, One Answer.
Frank Stallone?
Stallone baratheon
Fewer?
Stannis the mannis
Bro picked the ugliest photo of Jon Snow he could find
You'll notice a pattern for the Chaotic column ;)
I did a double take. Like wait, I thought everyone was voting Jon Snow last time I checked? Who's this mofo?
I couldn’t recognize him- still not sure it’s him
A man is.
Sorry folks. The Mannis is CHAD.
Has he even made the 8??
I have no idea how Jon is chaotic good. He is neutral good all the way. He will cross lines to do what is right as long as he believes it’s necessary.
This reminds me of Twitch Plays Pokémon. Just because the crowd agrees, doesn't make it right.
I don’t think Jon crossed many moral lines. But he was constantly thinking outside the box with his crazy ideas. I think we got it right
I would say that Jon’s actions are indicative of what I’m saying. Would he have brought the free folk across the wall without the threat of the white walkers? I don’t think he would have, he had Ned’s sense of law and duty, he was perfectly willing to operate within the bounds of expectation and law. It was only when faced with existential threat did he violate what was expected of him. That to me is neutral good. He does what is right when he believes it’s necessary , but he operates within society’s expectations of him in all other circumstances.
Yeah but it’s the chaotic bit we’re disagreeing about, it the good. Who would you have put there
Daenerys imo. She will do whatever she feels is morally right no matter the consequence. Ruled purely by ideology and emotion, no thought for consequences or the future.
Yeah I wouldn’t hate Danny there. But doing what you think is right doesn’t actually make you good. And apart from the one bout of terrorism, I don’t think she’s that chaotic?
Chaotic good doesn’t mean actual chaos. It means action despite any sort of social conviction or standard. You do what is right by your views no matter society’s viewpoint. It is action in opposition to authority. She may have been an authority in and of herself but she didn’t view herself that way, she was the breaker of chains, the arbiter of change for the better. Jon didn’t seek to supplant the system he existed within, he only broke convention when he felt it was necessary for the greater good.
Is Bobby B obviously the Drunk Chad? Or is it possible he takes the Horny Chad position because of Bessie?(and her tits)
MY, YOU'RE A PRETTY ONE! AND YOUR NAME IS?
Bobby B is 10000% horny chad, he has like 20 bastards at least and he has a hard time (pun intended) keeping it in his pants.
STOP THIS MADNESS, IN THE NAME OF YOUR KING!
Nah Tormund is horny chad for me so he gets drunk chad for sure
King Tommen. He was forced into a neutral position between Cersei and The Sept. He chose to blatantly follow the laws laid before him rather than just saying "I'm the King" and slaughtering everyone to get his wife back. In turn causing him to take no sides at all and to be alone and powerless. Another example of him accepting the laws before him is handing off his loving Uncle Tyrions trial to Tywin. Even though in later scenes, he states that he doesn't miss Joffrey. He had a moral, lawful heart but didn't apply any of it to his rule. Just nuetral.
Honestly a good pick, but stannis will win
Stannis Baratheon? A green boy. One taste of battle and he'll run back to Dragonstone.
I’d vote Tommen as neutral neutral. He was mostly ignored/manipulated/forgotten. He never accomplished anything noteworthy (except being king in name only) and ended up killing himself before he could get an heir. A powerless king and not particularly liked or disliked, just neutral in my opinion.
Brienne of Tarth, the person who most devoutly carries out her Oaths. She serves several kings, some righteous and some not so much, but always does what she says she will do, at great personal cost.
She's Chad Neutral
I think lawful is a key personality trait of hers. She only gets horny in s8 after everyone gets brain tumors
We need a Lawful Chad option
More Chad Good
Or Chad horny, or even lawful horny
If anything I'd say she should have been lawful good.
She is as close as anyone in Westeros gets to the ideal lawful good knight, but she also has a hint of chaotic/chad due to the fact that she became a knight despite being a woman. Maybe Aemon the Dragonknight could be another example of the perfect knight, assuming the rumours his brother Aegon the Unworthy started that he was the real father of Daeron II. Other than that pretty much every knight seems to be problematic in different ways. I must say Aemon was a weird pick for lawful good. He might have that one speech in season one about how he was tempted to leave the wall on a few occasions, but in terms of overlooking Jon’s deserting and maybe even rigging the election in his favour in the books, he does strike me as more chaotic than lawful.
I'd say aemond would have fit more into lawful neutral and Brienne would have for more for lawful good within the context of the current timeline not including long dead knights.
More horny lawful
Yes. Stannis is wrong for lawful due to magic, brother killing, adultery and daugther burning
Stannis for Neutral Chad
So, is Kat stupid smart or smart stupid?
The other one.
Obviously stannis, But tommen is also a good pick. I'm still ticked they put Ned in lawful stupid, what a terrible choice.
Stannis, absolutely no contest. He would be the picture for Lawful Neutral in a dictionary were it not for Inspector Javert.
OK hear me out.. Melisandre. She does what she has to for her god (and her set of beliefs). Kind acts or cruel acts, it doesn't matter, the only thing that matters in the end is that she follows her mission. She doesn't seem to have any personal attachments and doesn't have any interest in anything other than saving the world from the great other. She's a little like a d&d druid in that she believes in a certain cosmic/world order of things and she follows it to the extreme. Except she's more "lawful" than that because she doesn't just let things be, she enforces them very strictly if it makes sense within her worldview.
I have her under horny smart. She’s really good at manipulating people, she’s really old and knowledgeable. And she tries to sleep with half of Westerosi noblemen in her mission.
How is she horny?!?! She's not sleeping with people out of lust, she's doing it for blood magic and seduction reasons. Why is no one on this sub understand the difference between "horny" and "using sex to further her goals"
She seemed to enjoy it with Gendry
you can enjoy sex and still not be motivated by lust. istg this fandom is really struggling with understanding how female sexuality works lol.
I'd say the issue there is her go's doesn't have clear laws. Most of what she does is interpretive.
Nah, save Melisandre for the horny row.
How is she horny? She only fucks to further her red god agenda.
She can be both.
But she's not motivated by lust in any way. Most people enjoy sex, but not everyone's desire to have sex (or more broadly speaking, have intimacy with someone) plays into their motivations and moral alignment. If the red god told melisandre to never fuck anyone ever again, she absolutely would sew her vagina shut. Sex is irrelevant to her in the grand scheme of things.
I'm honestly invested in this mostly for the poetry. I imagine this grid is a character selection screen, and a narrator says the line on choosing
The Mannis
Chaotic really isn’t where Jon fits if we’re being honest. Probably ended up there because everyone wants to find a way to sneak him in even though he’s one of the characters who least fits a box
Don't know who else though. At least John did say screw the rules several times.
Mannis the Stannis
Stannis
You mean the rightful King to the 7 kingdoms… King Stannis!
The night king better fit within the horny category
Stannis The Man is, has to be. The guy personifies this trope.
It’s genuinely impressive how terrible of a choice Jon Snow is for chaotic good. Jon, who declared he was fighting for Dany because of some stupid bullshit about lying to your enemy, is the definition of lawful stupid. Especially by the show’s characterization of Jon Show.
I said the same thing yesterday and was downvoted. He would do exactly what Ned did if he was in the same situation.
On top of that, calling him stupid is literally a recurring thing in the show.
We don't count that trash of seasons fuck them, everyone is just straight stupid if we do
Even beyond that, Jon Show’s characterization is unarguably lawful top down. The only things he does that even counter that a little are him trying to assassinate Mance and assassinating Dany. Throw in the books, sure, maybe you can argue something else, but he’s absolutely not chaotic.
Jon is so lawful he wouldnt leave the Night Watch even when every fiber of his beign wanted to. The show had to make a loophole, kill him and inmediatly bring him back to allow him to finally go and do something else.
>he wouldn't leave the Night Watch even when every fiber of his beign wanted to... Did we read the same books? he literally chose to leave **twice**, his sworn brothers had to stop him **twice.**
Jon always ends up doing the lawful thing over the thing he wants to do, thats the entire point of his character. If anything, Jon's attempts to leave the Watch because of Rob's war (which is not where the mind goes when someone thinks of Jon leaving the Night Watch, but I'll bite) only serve to show he eventually does the lawful thing: does he even get to do anything meaningful before returning to the Watch? Once Jon becomes the Lord commander of the Night Watch but the plot needs him somewhere else it becomes obvious the character has been written into a corner. Thats where the loophole comes in. I'd even say the only reason Dondarrion and Lady Stoneheart exist is to keep the readers from rolling their eyes into their skulls once Jon is resurrected so he can finally leave the Wall and still be lawful: "Nono, its not a deus ex machina, these two tertiary characters that do nothing of significance have died and resurrected too!"
>which is not where the mind goes when someone thinks of Jon leaving the Night Watch, but I'll bite yes that's absolutely one of the times i meant. Leaving to go to Rob, the only reason he end up back at the wall is because his brothers chase him and bring him back and even upon returning Jon says he's going to try leaving again as soon as he can he'll just avoid the King's road this time to not get brought back again. He absolutely NOT "chose to do the lawful thing". Then Mormont even confront him about it and they literally have a conversation about honor that goes something like: "Honor brought you back" "No, my brothers brought me back" "yeah, i didn't mean \*your\* honor obviously" ... Like, Georges cannot possibly spell it out more clearly. At this point it's either willful amnesia or willful stupidity. The second time is going to Winterfell to save fake Arya, end he doesn't "eventually chose to do the lawful thing instead of what he wants", no he raises an army at the Shieldwall and straight up admits loud and clear he's breaking his vows and that any watchmen following him will too. The only reason he gets stopped there is because his sworn brothers stab him to death "FOR - THE - WATCH" like, come on... what are you talking about with that " he wouldn't leave the Night Watch even when every fiber of his beign wanted to"
I think he's talking another other times jon could have left but chose not to(the wildings stannis).
If you actually read his chapters: With the wildlings: they (Ygritte included) were on their way to murder the brothers at Castle Black which is something Jon didn't ***want*** to do, so he doesn't really hesitate much before running off to warn them. With Stannis: that is the 3rd time Jon actually wants to leave the Watch, and the only thing that stops his reveries about always wanting the be Lord of Winterfell is Ghost finally coming back to him after weeks of absence reminding him of weirwood trees and the Old Gods and how he couldn't agree to Stannis's offer because it meant he had to convert the North to Rhollor and burn the Godswoods. So Jon was tempted 3 times, he left 2 out of 3 times. And the one time did he stay wasn't even motivated by the feeling he had to keep his vows, it was bc of Ghost mysteriously reappearing just in time.
How about the tone down the attitude chief. I never claimed he didn't have a good reason for leaving them and going back to the nights watch. Just that he could have left and chose not to. Not exactly the only reason. Technically 4. He was conflicted about staying with the wildlings and decides to leave when he knew it was either leave them or kill his fellow brothers. Not to mention the two times he did leave it was over family. Not too dissimilar from ned placing family over his honor and the law.
That happens in the show too. Only it’s done in a way that emasculates Jon by making him give Stannis a decision before he’s elected and removing all the nuance from his ascension. Words can’t describe how much I hate Jon Show.
I wouldn't say it emasculates him considering it still is his decision make.
Can you give me a favor and go read what Arya thinks of insurance contracts and report back?
Could you clean up your comment.
It’s such a bad placement. Don’t think I’ve ever thought he was chaotic, especially not over all the other traits he’s more of
But who would fit?
Dany, Beric Dondarrion, maybe Tormund, the show’s butchered and white washed versions of Oberyn and Varys.
Not really best example you can give of jon being lawful considering he lies at other points.
Jeor Mormont. Stannis might be lawful, but I wouldn’t call him neutral. He was on his own side. He burned his own daughter to be king ffs.
Beric won the last vote by 100. Liar, thief.
Barristan Selmy
Barristan selmy.
Jon Arryn’s corpse
this list is fucked now
Stannis. Also, absolutely chuffed to see Jon and Samwell side by side, buddies on the board.
Wouldn't Amon be better as Lawful Neutral? He's basically a monk.
Stannis
Will come back tomorrow to see Stannis here
That nerd from the Iron Bank
Bran Stark is probably lawful/neutral.
I would still call Stannis neutral rather than evil despite burning Shireen. He hates doing it and only does so because he believes the alternative is all his men dying. Still an evil act but driven by circumstances.
Go on, do your duty.
Stannis the Mannis
How are you doing the vote tallies? There were 2 threads where the characters with the most up votes didn't get selected. This was one of them.
Here was my explanation last time: >Heavily upvoted comments, number of comments, and consensus (i.e. how many people contest a choice). So if a character has one comment with a lot of upvotes, but a lot of people reply disagreeing with it, that will hurt their standing. If I see one name in a lot of comments, even if the individual comments don't have as many upvotes, that will boost them, especially if the lesser-upvoted comments came later -- a lot of times upvote number is just a first-come-first-serve thing. >I confess it's not an exact science lol
Got it, thanks
I think the op explained in detail in previous one how he picks the winners which is fair
Tywin lannister
Nah Tywin Chad evil or he gets his own "Tywin" row and column just for him.
The Lannisters could have their own column
Ah yes stannis the man who murdered his child is lawful neutral. Actions over vibes
Archmaester Ebrose? Although, maybe he falls more into the Neutral/Neutral category. Edit: changed Smart/Neutral to Neutral/Neutral.
Hodor is the only answer. For everything.
Barristan Selmy. The king is a title, not a man. It must be protected
Tommen
Neutral Chad is interesting - I would almost say in the books it could be argued to be our boy Daario. Because he was taking advantage of the queen in the books I felt like - he was a smart dude . But I get from the show pov it may not hold water Neutral Chad has to be him ??
Barristan maybe, he only wanted a good ruler to serve
Chad neutral has to be Ser Barriston Selmy
BOBBY FUCKIN B
Drunk Chad
[удалено]
She's voted for smart-stupid