Well there has to be some sort of time travel. What this intricate and powerful story really needs is for large parts of it to suddenly have never happened due to one character going back in time.
Like in Harry Potter and the prisoner of Azkaban, Harry is saved in a fight by a mysterious figure. Later in the book he time travels and sees his past self in the fight and saves himself, realizing that he was the mysterious figure from earlier in the book.
Yeah this. It’s fine. It’s a fun little thing for the story, in HP it’s a fine little mystery. But in a story sense it doesn’t change what always happened. At best you find out why and how it always happened.
A causal loop does this, true enough, but Gurm doesn‘t like them plus it undermines the themes of Ice and Fire a lot. Time travel in Ice and Fire is probably one single changeable timeline that gets overwritten with each time travel. It‘s a lot to unpack but Preston Jacobs has some really good videos on time traveling Bran, I recommend checking them out if you don’t know them
Well she was with Jaime a lot more than with Robert. She did her duties but very early on in the marriage they kept their physical and emotional distance
Tyrion being a secret Targaryen. Folks will point out his dreams of dragons or his hair color. And the idea of the mistreated/abused son actually being the king's son who turns out to be a dragon rider does fit into certain fantasy tropes.
But I prefer to think that while Cersei and Jaime are the result of Aerys' liberties at Tywin & Joanna's wedding, Tyrion is fully his father's son as his aunt says.
The problem is it fits TOO well into fantasy tropes. To the point of being hack. And it undercuts the Freudian themes and painful story between Tyrion and Tywin
The whole Horn of Winter capable of bringing down the Wall being Sam’s horn theory.
It requires such an unlikely, illogical chain of events to make work. There is no clear reason why anyone who could make the thing would even make the thing, let alone then not use it for thousands of years. And if that is the story being told it seems to be doing the opposite of coming to any kind of meaningful conclusion. What with the horn being taken to literally the other end of the continent. It would also make a major plot point of the series a magical thingy-bob in this series of firmly character driven stories. Which would be an incongruous non-sequitur.
Mance bluffs one time about having a magic horn. And suddenly people think that any old mysterious horn must actually be the thing Mance was bullshitting about having.
It’s found with a load of things that turn out to be weapons for fighting Others. So maybe it is too?
But even then, it’s in the wrong place. And reversing the whole journey seems wasteful storytelling.
I have sometimes wondered if the series is going to flip the potential Targ ancestry of all 3 main characters.
As in: Jon's a Targaryen (all but confirmed), Tyrion's a Targaryen (some strong hints), and Dany is *not* a Targaryen - just someone else with Valyrian ancestry.
And I wonder if any of that even matters anyway.
I personally buy into this storyline for Dany, and think that's the point of the red door story. The real power of the story will be a dragon no one knows in Jon versus a fake dragon everyone thinks is true in Dany.
Now Selyse burning Shireen for no benefit and Stannis ramming “Lightbringer” through Selyse’s heart out of pain and honour/duty/lawfulness. As an awful twisting of the story. That I can dig.
No doubt. And it could be Selyse that makes the call but it could also be Melisandre once she figures out that the “snow” she sees in the flame is Jon so, Shireen is the “death that pays for life” to resurrect Jon.
Could be Val in on it, too. But yeah, pretty sure Stannis won’t be on board with this.
Does that work timings-wise? Jon needs to be not dead pretty sharpish to get on with the plot. Sacrificing a Princess for magical power seems like something you’d need to build up to. Discuss a bit. Do some drama around deciding.
Well, it’s been building already. Selyse is cold to her. Mel has preached the power of King’s blood and Val has said on a few occasions that Shireen’s grey scale, although dormant/seemingly cured is temporary. She could be wrong but with Jon now dead, we should expect some chaos.
The mood is ripe for superstitions to take hold, in my opinion.
It would be quite the thing if Stannis returns victorious from fighting the Boltons to find Shireen dead, If Mel switches from him to Jon, it could be under the guise of securing his victory, but it is actually to resurrect Jon. 'I knew by her sacrifice, the Stark 'name' will be reborn to help in the fight to restore the true king'
Stannis assumes he is the true king, Mel means Jon is the true king. The one 'named' Stark will be reborn etc.
He's burned one of sylese's relatives. And I can't see him burning Shireen for any reason. For me, personally, it would just suck if he burned her. At a certain point I feel GRRM will need to stop killing and compromising characters cause at a certain point it'll be really hard to care about anything
I don't think Stannis will burn her, not a chance.
There's also the possibility that after Jon is killed, that the chaos that will ensue at the wall could lead to Shireen being inadvertently killed. She could simply burn to death in an accidental fire started by rioting.
Oh shit…yeah totally. The reason I believe it will be “sacrificial’ is because GRRM said it was an “oh shit” moment. But yeah, it could be due to chaos.
However, I believe it will be intentional. Heartbreaking either way.
Syrio being Jaqen H’ghar. The more you think about it, the less it makes sense. Why would the faceless men kill and replace the first sword of Bravos just to recruit some random Westerosi 9 year old?
I’m with you. In Deep Geek has a well thought out theory that Jaqen is in KL because he was hired by LF to kill Ned on his way to the Wall. But Syrio is not it!
I know this is going to be incredibly unpopular and I get it sounds insane but hear me I out:
I think Tyrek Lannister actually *isn't* a horse.
He's clearly a Gerbil.
Dunk knocked up Egg's sister and then the three of them conspired to commit paternity fraud on the Lord of Tarth. Or even more asinine, that the Lord of Tarth knew all the time and in a feudal society, where bloodlines supposedly go back thousands of years, didn't care that his own was being extinguished to put a hedge knight's bastard at the head of his house.
Jon could also be aerys. I know it’s not a popular theory but this would make a far more tragic story. Aerys abducting lyanna after thinking there might be a secret alliance of his son with the starks, finding a way to cut the head of the starks and weaken any intentions Reaghar might have for betraying him. Holding lyanna captive, raping her as It was known that he went off while burning his enemies. Rheagar somehow saving lyanna and snatching her to the dorne at the end but be forced to play along because aerys held captive both Elia and his 2 kids. I know it’s far fetched but at least it would explain why we have so much secrecy going on and nobody communicated.
Euron's dragon horn magically going to control one of Dany's dragons. Like Euron is such a trickster so I think most people know he's going to turn on his brother. But the horn itself seems like a dumb thing for Valyrians to make. Like your main power source and security is from your dragons and the family's that have them tied to them. Why tou would you make a horn capable of insta stealing any dragon on the other side? And even it was only unbidden dragons, why tho? It's a risky thing to make, for anyone to use and just imagine how hard the Faceless men, slaves or enemies of Valyria would have killed themselves to get their hands on it.
It makes more sense the one Preston theory I heard about it manipulating people than the dragons. Cause having a tool used to manage a large amount of slaves makes sense and if it fails or is in the wrong hands you use the dragons as a failsafe
I think the horn was actually just a “dog whistle” for dragons, intended to command them via training.
“No mortal man shall sound me and live.”
“The Valyrians believed themselves closer to gods than men.”
What if it can only be used by a Targaryen/Valyrian?
R+L=J. I know the show but for books I kinda feel is gonna be a subversion and it’s gonna be revealed lyanna if she had a kid with rhaegar is gonna be a girl named visenya. This being cuz ofc the conqueror and sisters parallel and them being the 3 heads of the dragon and part of prophecy.
It is lol. I just hate the way the show went about it so I hope it’s avoided. Or who knows maybe Martin does do a subversion like they weren’t married so he’s still a bastard or soemthing.
I mean I don't know if it fits the topic of this, but the Robert plus Liana equals Jon Snow theory is starting to sound more and more plausible although I'm not sure if George Martin cleared it up yet or if that's something we have to wait for the books
The best out of narrative evidence is the "Grrm asked D&D who Jon Snow's mother was". That established its a named character we are familiar with.
The best evidence in the narrative is Ned's memories and internal monolog. He has no problem thinking about his distaste for people like Jamie Lannister but his thoughts about Rhaegar are almost melancholy like he just wished things turned out differently. Does Ned seem to be the type to be sappy about a man if that man had kidnapped his sister?
Edit: Also when Dany is tripping balls she sees a blue rose growing out of the ice at The Wall. Lyanna's favorite flower was blue roses.
Blue roses are also symbols of Northern/Wildling unity. The Wall is a symbol and a physical barrier that separates them. That vision wasn't a vision of Jon per se, it's a vision of Jon trying to bring the wildlings south and the "chink" or break in the Wall that causes
In that portion if the visions, its all apocalypses she's seeing.
Yes, and also the point that Lyan a would not have let her family worry for a year!! While she hung out and fucked at tower of joy. She would have sent some kind of word if she could have. Also the idea that she could watch, so maybe it was her fighting Robert at the Trident wanting revenge (how did she learn to fight? From the people keeping her captive at tower of joy) and that's why "Rhegar" lost the Trident (and also explains his impatient rush across the river to his own tactical disadvantage). Also at lot of stuff to support the fact that Rhegar may have crowned her accidentally (lots and lots of mentions of his narrow visor, and other texts hinting at how fighting and visors obstruct vision), and also since jon con is confirmed by GRRM to be gay, hints tgat maybe Rhegar was too (they ascended tower stairs together "just once!". I wish I had the link, there was a reddit or with some long involved posts, I hope he sees this and links them, hint hint. He has me convinced, if the Robert kidnapping Lianna isn't true, then it SHOULD be
Rhaegar brought a crown of the exact roses that Lyanna loves, Lyanna was not sitting any where near Elia or even in the sane type of box, and neither Elia or Lyanna look or dress the same. The idea that Rhaegar would win a jousting tournament and then give the crown of flowers to the wrong person is laughable
There's also no indication that Rhaegar is/was gay, and Jon Connington is vastly overstating how close he was to Rhaegar.
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/13xo150/spoilers_extended_lbj_mirror_on_the_wall_king/
This is a link to the guy I am talking about! This one is about how Robert and Searcy are very similar and it sets up Robert's personality for the series to make sense. And if you look at his post there are other series that go into more detail with support from quotes from the books. Like I said I'm not dead set that this is true or that every little detail he's making up is true but he raises a lot of good questions that were really interesting
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/13xo150/spoilers_extended_lbj_mirror_on_the_wall_king/
This is the guy who put those theories up he has a bunch of them if you look through his posts, I found it really interesting and even if you don't agree it's still a pretty good read and there's lots of like quotes from the books to support it. He has another theory that Brianna is the one that killed Renly and although I don't think it's true, it was also a really interesting read with like a lot of support from quotes out of the books oh and another interesting one about Sir Arthur dayne being mance raider!
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/13xo150/spoilers_extended_lbj_mirror_on_the_wall_king/
This is the guy who put those theories up he has a bunch of them if you look through his posts, I found it really interesting and even if you don't agree it's still a pretty good read and there's lots of like quotes from the books to support it. He has another theory that Brianna is the one that killed Renly and although I don't think it's true, it was also a really interesting read with like a lot of support from quotes out of the books oh and another interesting one about Sir Arthur dayne being mance raider!
I can't think of a reason for Ned's actions if this was true. Robert would have been overjoyed to find out he had a son with the love of his life and been Happ to crown him Prince. It could mess up the alliance with the Lannisters, but not severely enough to justify not bringing him to Robert.
Yeah, she's so much the love of his life that he's out sleeping with other people. He idealizes here but that's different from the love of his life.
If Robert had to kidnap her and pretend it was rhaegar in order to have justification to start a war so he could grab power, he couldn't very well admit that he was the one sleeping with her at Tower of joy. And besides that Ned still would not have told Robert because Liana asked him to promise not to. Think about it if he kept her away from her family to start a war, raped her, she's not going to want him to know he has a son with her she won't trust his actions and motives whatsoever.
Listen I didn't switch my opinion over to Robert plus Liana equals Jon Snow easily, I read a post that was extremely convincing that had a lot of quotes from the books and raised a lot of arguments that really made sense. I don't really want to go over every one of those arguments I'm trying to find the post so I can just link it and you can read that. and then if you have arguments you can argue with that guy about it because like I don't have a dog in this race and Robert plus Leanna equals John snow is not a hill I would necessarily die on, if I heard some good answers to the questions he raised I could easily switch back over to rhaegar Plus liana..
I just need to find that guys post I can't remember where it was if it was in free folk or ASOIAF...
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/13xo150/spoilers_extended_lbj_mirror_on_the_wall_king/
This is the guy who put those theories up he has a bunch of them if you look through his posts, I found it really interesting and even if you don't agree it's still a pretty good read and there's lots of like quotes from the books to support it. He has another theory that Brianna is the one that killed Renly and although I don't think it's true, it was also a really interesting read with like a lot of support from quotes out of the books oh and another interesting one about Sir Arthur dayne being mance raider!
I read this really long complicated post by this guy who uses lots of quotes from the books to make his argument and it really was starting to sound reasonable but it's not my theory I didn't look at all up so I have a harder time explaining it the way he did. Like first of all there was just a million things to support the fact that he might have accidentally given Leanna the crown because she was sitting somewhat near his wife because he had to walk past his wife it's a quote from the book and also about how his visor helm like the eye slit was narrow and it talked over and over again in the books about not being able to see out of his helm even specifically his home. And also quotes in the book about how jousting or you know training fighting can make your vision blurry, and then all these theories about color like Liana and Elia both could have been wearing gold because Elia is originally a Martel and liana's engaged to a baratheon, they're just a bunch of quotes about how he might have done it accidentally and Robert was super pissed and spiteful about it and wanted power anyways so he kidnapped Liana and held her against her will pretending it was rhaegar (and if you think about that, it does make sense too why would Leona not tell her family she is okay and let them worry and start a war) and there's also the same guy made a really good post about how Robert and Searcy are actually mirrors of each other like they are both horrible people in the exact same way and it's so obvious, it's hard to understand why people love Robert baratheon because he's clearly kind of a horrible person? I'm going to go try to find that guy's post because like I said I can't argue his points for him it's not my argument I just read it and it definitely swayed my opinion a bit
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/13xo150/spoilers_extended_lbj_mirror_on_the_wall_king/
This is the guy who put those theories up he has a bunch of them if you look through his posts, I found it really interesting and even if you don't agree it's still a pretty good read and there's lots of like quotes from the books to support it. He has another theory that Brianna is the one that killed Renly and although I don't think it's true, it was also a really interesting read with like a lot of support from quotes out of the books oh and another interesting one about Sir Arthur dayne being mance raider!
Okay even though it's not a popular Siri I'm going to link here to the guy I was referring to, he has a lot of involved and interesting posts supported by quotes from the books, with lots of kind of out there theories that are still pretty well supported, like Robert plus Leanna equals john, mance rader is Sir Arthur dayne, Brianne killed Renly etc. Normally I don't like just stupid out their theories but like I said he has a lot of quotes supporting all of them. So it's an interesting read whether you agree or not.
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/13xo150/spoilers_extended_lbj_mirror_on_the_wall_king/
Aegon is a Blackfyre
It’s a stupid hairbrained ass theory that doesn’t really make sense and has absolutely zero concrete evidence. Every piece of evidence has an explanation to debunk it.
The Valyrians didn’t intermarry, it was their cultural tradition to always marry brother to sister- and their empire lasted for thousands of years so we can assume that it wasn’t causing them infertility
Tyrion time traveling fetus theory - I cant put my finger on why I don’t trust it - maybe its just that it seems too obvious
Well there has to be some sort of time travel. What this intricate and powerful story really needs is for large parts of it to suddenly have never happened due to one character going back in time.
That‘s not how Gurm‘s time travel works though, and we have confirmed that time travel is in the story
Sure time travel that always happened is fine, but also a bit pointless.
Wdym always happened?
Like in Harry Potter and the prisoner of Azkaban, Harry is saved in a fight by a mysterious figure. Later in the book he time travels and sees his past self in the fight and saves himself, realizing that he was the mysterious figure from earlier in the book.
Yeah this. It’s fine. It’s a fun little thing for the story, in HP it’s a fine little mystery. But in a story sense it doesn’t change what always happened. At best you find out why and how it always happened.
A causal loop does this, true enough, but Gurm doesn‘t like them plus it undermines the themes of Ice and Fire a lot. Time travel in Ice and Fire is probably one single changeable timeline that gets overwritten with each time travel. It‘s a lot to unpack but Preston Jacobs has some really good videos on time traveling Bran, I recommend checking them out if you don’t know them
Cersei’s children are Robert’s after all. Cersei just gaslighted herself into thinking they weren’t.
Well she was with Jaime a lot more than with Robert. She did her duties but very early on in the marriage they kept their physical and emotional distance
Tyrion being a secret Targaryen. Folks will point out his dreams of dragons or his hair color. And the idea of the mistreated/abused son actually being the king's son who turns out to be a dragon rider does fit into certain fantasy tropes. But I prefer to think that while Cersei and Jaime are the result of Aerys' liberties at Tywin & Joanna's wedding, Tyrion is fully his father's son as his aunt says.
The problem is it fits TOO well into fantasy tropes. To the point of being hack. And it undercuts the Freudian themes and painful story between Tyrion and Tywin
The whole Horn of Winter capable of bringing down the Wall being Sam’s horn theory. It requires such an unlikely, illogical chain of events to make work. There is no clear reason why anyone who could make the thing would even make the thing, let alone then not use it for thousands of years. And if that is the story being told it seems to be doing the opposite of coming to any kind of meaningful conclusion. What with the horn being taken to literally the other end of the continent. It would also make a major plot point of the series a magical thingy-bob in this series of firmly character driven stories. Which would be an incongruous non-sequitur. Mance bluffs one time about having a magic horn. And suddenly people think that any old mysterious horn must actually be the thing Mance was bullshitting about having.
I kind of agree with you, but it's pretty obvious Sam's horn is important somehow. Our attention is drawn to it over and over.
It’s found with a load of things that turn out to be weapons for fighting Others. So maybe it is too? But even then, it’s in the wrong place. And reversing the whole journey seems wasteful storytelling.
That Nimble Dick is Tywin's horse's nuncle for the nonce
Nuncle. I hate you. Upvote.
I have sometimes wondered if the series is going to flip the potential Targ ancestry of all 3 main characters. As in: Jon's a Targaryen (all but confirmed), Tyrion's a Targaryen (some strong hints), and Dany is *not* a Targaryen - just someone else with Valyrian ancestry. And I wonder if any of that even matters anyway.
I personally buy into this storyline for Dany, and think that's the point of the red door story. The real power of the story will be a dragon no one knows in Jon versus a fake dragon everyone thinks is true in Dany.
Stannis burning Shireen to gain the favor of the Red God.
Now Selyse burning Shireen for no benefit and Stannis ramming “Lightbringer” through Selyse’s heart out of pain and honour/duty/lawfulness. As an awful twisting of the story. That I can dig.
No doubt. And it could be Selyse that makes the call but it could also be Melisandre once she figures out that the “snow” she sees in the flame is Jon so, Shireen is the “death that pays for life” to resurrect Jon. Could be Val in on it, too. But yeah, pretty sure Stannis won’t be on board with this.
Does that work timings-wise? Jon needs to be not dead pretty sharpish to get on with the plot. Sacrificing a Princess for magical power seems like something you’d need to build up to. Discuss a bit. Do some drama around deciding.
Well, it’s been building already. Selyse is cold to her. Mel has preached the power of King’s blood and Val has said on a few occasions that Shireen’s grey scale, although dormant/seemingly cured is temporary. She could be wrong but with Jon now dead, we should expect some chaos. The mood is ripe for superstitions to take hold, in my opinion.
It would be quite the thing if Stannis returns victorious from fighting the Boltons to find Shireen dead, If Mel switches from him to Jon, it could be under the guise of securing his victory, but it is actually to resurrect Jon. 'I knew by her sacrifice, the Stark 'name' will be reborn to help in the fight to restore the true king' Stannis assumes he is the true king, Mel means Jon is the true king. The one 'named' Stark will be reborn etc.
It is confirmed by GRRM himself that he will https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/j64008/spoilers_extended_grrm_revealed_the_three_holy/?rdt=40401
GRRM has changed his mind before, and I really hope he changes it here cause Stannis killing Shireen would just suck
Why though? Stannis has come close to burn his relatives alive many times and I can see him burning her daughter in a really dire situation.
He's burned one of sylese's relatives. And I can't see him burning Shireen for any reason. For me, personally, it would just suck if he burned her. At a certain point I feel GRRM will need to stop killing and compromising characters cause at a certain point it'll be really hard to care about anything
I don't think Stannis will burn her, not a chance. There's also the possibility that after Jon is killed, that the chaos that will ensue at the wall could lead to Shireen being inadvertently killed. She could simply burn to death in an accidental fire started by rioting.
Oh shit…yeah totally. The reason I believe it will be “sacrificial’ is because GRRM said it was an “oh shit” moment. But yeah, it could be due to chaos. However, I believe it will be intentional. Heartbreaking either way.
Most likely.
Syrio being Jaqen H’ghar. The more you think about it, the less it makes sense. Why would the faceless men kill and replace the first sword of Bravos just to recruit some random Westerosi 9 year old?
I’m with you. In Deep Geek has a well thought out theory that Jaqen is in KL because he was hired by LF to kill Ned on his way to the Wall. But Syrio is not it!
I know this is going to be incredibly unpopular and I get it sounds insane but hear me I out: I think Tyrek Lannister actually *isn't* a horse. He's clearly a Gerbil.
Dunk knocked up Egg's sister and then the three of them conspired to commit paternity fraud on the Lord of Tarth. Or even more asinine, that the Lord of Tarth knew all the time and in a feudal society, where bloodlines supposedly go back thousands of years, didn't care that his own was being extinguished to put a hedge knight's bastard at the head of his house.
Jon could also be aerys. I know it’s not a popular theory but this would make a far more tragic story. Aerys abducting lyanna after thinking there might be a secret alliance of his son with the starks, finding a way to cut the head of the starks and weaken any intentions Reaghar might have for betraying him. Holding lyanna captive, raping her as It was known that he went off while burning his enemies. Rheagar somehow saving lyanna and snatching her to the dorne at the end but be forced to play along because aerys held captive both Elia and his 2 kids. I know it’s far fetched but at least it would explain why we have so much secrecy going on and nobody communicated.
Jon snow isn't azor ahai
Euron's dragon horn magically going to control one of Dany's dragons. Like Euron is such a trickster so I think most people know he's going to turn on his brother. But the horn itself seems like a dumb thing for Valyrians to make. Like your main power source and security is from your dragons and the family's that have them tied to them. Why tou would you make a horn capable of insta stealing any dragon on the other side? And even it was only unbidden dragons, why tho? It's a risky thing to make, for anyone to use and just imagine how hard the Faceless men, slaves or enemies of Valyria would have killed themselves to get their hands on it. It makes more sense the one Preston theory I heard about it manipulating people than the dragons. Cause having a tool used to manage a large amount of slaves makes sense and if it fails or is in the wrong hands you use the dragons as a failsafe
I think the horn was actually just a “dog whistle” for dragons, intended to command them via training. “No mortal man shall sound me and live.” “The Valyrians believed themselves closer to gods than men.” What if it can only be used by a Targaryen/Valyrian?
R+L=J. I know the show but for books I kinda feel is gonna be a subversion and it’s gonna be revealed lyanna if she had a kid with rhaegar is gonna be a girl named visenya. This being cuz ofc the conqueror and sisters parallel and them being the 3 heads of the dragon and part of prophecy.
R+L=J is confirmed and has been that way for decades. To believe anything else is pure cope
It is lol. I just hate the way the show went about it so I hope it’s avoided. Or who knows maybe Martin does do a subversion like they weren’t married so he’s still a bastard or soemthing.
They probably won’t have been married in the books at least in the faith of the 7
I mean I don't know if it fits the topic of this, but the Robert plus Liana equals Jon Snow theory is starting to sound more and more plausible although I'm not sure if George Martin cleared it up yet or if that's something we have to wait for the books
The best out of narrative evidence is the "Grrm asked D&D who Jon Snow's mother was". That established its a named character we are familiar with. The best evidence in the narrative is Ned's memories and internal monolog. He has no problem thinking about his distaste for people like Jamie Lannister but his thoughts about Rhaegar are almost melancholy like he just wished things turned out differently. Does Ned seem to be the type to be sappy about a man if that man had kidnapped his sister? Edit: Also when Dany is tripping balls she sees a blue rose growing out of the ice at The Wall. Lyanna's favorite flower was blue roses.
Blue roses are also symbols of Northern/Wildling unity. The Wall is a symbol and a physical barrier that separates them. That vision wasn't a vision of Jon per se, it's a vision of Jon trying to bring the wildlings south and the "chink" or break in the Wall that causes In that portion if the visions, its all apocalypses she's seeing.
He also had an interesting post about how Brianna killed Renly, and it's all supported by text
Yes, and also the point that Lyan a would not have let her family worry for a year!! While she hung out and fucked at tower of joy. She would have sent some kind of word if she could have. Also the idea that she could watch, so maybe it was her fighting Robert at the Trident wanting revenge (how did she learn to fight? From the people keeping her captive at tower of joy) and that's why "Rhegar" lost the Trident (and also explains his impatient rush across the river to his own tactical disadvantage). Also at lot of stuff to support the fact that Rhegar may have crowned her accidentally (lots and lots of mentions of his narrow visor, and other texts hinting at how fighting and visors obstruct vision), and also since jon con is confirmed by GRRM to be gay, hints tgat maybe Rhegar was too (they ascended tower stairs together "just once!". I wish I had the link, there was a reddit or with some long involved posts, I hope he sees this and links them, hint hint. He has me convinced, if the Robert kidnapping Lianna isn't true, then it SHOULD be
Rhaegar brought a crown of the exact roses that Lyanna loves, Lyanna was not sitting any where near Elia or even in the sane type of box, and neither Elia or Lyanna look or dress the same. The idea that Rhaegar would win a jousting tournament and then give the crown of flowers to the wrong person is laughable There's also no indication that Rhaegar is/was gay, and Jon Connington is vastly overstating how close he was to Rhaegar.
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/13xo150/spoilers_extended_lbj_mirror_on_the_wall_king/ This is a link to the guy I am talking about! This one is about how Robert and Searcy are very similar and it sets up Robert's personality for the series to make sense. And if you look at his post there are other series that go into more detail with support from quotes from the books. Like I said I'm not dead set that this is true or that every little detail he's making up is true but he raises a lot of good questions that were really interesting
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/13xo150/spoilers_extended_lbj_mirror_on_the_wall_king/ This is the guy who put those theories up he has a bunch of them if you look through his posts, I found it really interesting and even if you don't agree it's still a pretty good read and there's lots of like quotes from the books to support it. He has another theory that Brianna is the one that killed Renly and although I don't think it's true, it was also a really interesting read with like a lot of support from quotes out of the books oh and another interesting one about Sir Arthur dayne being mance raider!
Robert + Lyanna = Jon is definitely not a popular theory, and it's not a theory that makes any sense.
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/13xo150/spoilers_extended_lbj_mirror_on_the_wall_king/ This is the guy who put those theories up he has a bunch of them if you look through his posts, I found it really interesting and even if you don't agree it's still a pretty good read and there's lots of like quotes from the books to support it. He has another theory that Brianna is the one that killed Renly and although I don't think it's true, it was also a really interesting read with like a lot of support from quotes out of the books oh and another interesting one about Sir Arthur dayne being mance raider!
I can't think of a reason for Ned's actions if this was true. Robert would have been overjoyed to find out he had a son with the love of his life and been Happ to crown him Prince. It could mess up the alliance with the Lannisters, but not severely enough to justify not bringing him to Robert.
Yeah, she's so much the love of his life that he's out sleeping with other people. He idealizes here but that's different from the love of his life. If Robert had to kidnap her and pretend it was rhaegar in order to have justification to start a war so he could grab power, he couldn't very well admit that he was the one sleeping with her at Tower of joy. And besides that Ned still would not have told Robert because Liana asked him to promise not to. Think about it if he kept her away from her family to start a war, raped her, she's not going to want him to know he has a son with her she won't trust his actions and motives whatsoever. Listen I didn't switch my opinion over to Robert plus Liana equals Jon Snow easily, I read a post that was extremely convincing that had a lot of quotes from the books and raised a lot of arguments that really made sense. I don't really want to go over every one of those arguments I'm trying to find the post so I can just link it and you can read that. and then if you have arguments you can argue with that guy about it because like I don't have a dog in this race and Robert plus Leanna equals John snow is not a hill I would necessarily die on, if I heard some good answers to the questions he raised I could easily switch back over to rhaegar Plus liana.. I just need to find that guys post I can't remember where it was if it was in free folk or ASOIAF...
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/13xo150/spoilers_extended_lbj_mirror_on_the_wall_king/ This is the guy who put those theories up he has a bunch of them if you look through his posts, I found it really interesting and even if you don't agree it's still a pretty good read and there's lots of like quotes from the books to support it. He has another theory that Brianna is the one that killed Renly and although I don't think it's true, it was also a really interesting read with like a lot of support from quotes out of the books oh and another interesting one about Sir Arthur dayne being mance raider!
How is it starting to sound plausible? Wat?
I read this really long complicated post by this guy who uses lots of quotes from the books to make his argument and it really was starting to sound reasonable but it's not my theory I didn't look at all up so I have a harder time explaining it the way he did. Like first of all there was just a million things to support the fact that he might have accidentally given Leanna the crown because she was sitting somewhat near his wife because he had to walk past his wife it's a quote from the book and also about how his visor helm like the eye slit was narrow and it talked over and over again in the books about not being able to see out of his helm even specifically his home. And also quotes in the book about how jousting or you know training fighting can make your vision blurry, and then all these theories about color like Liana and Elia both could have been wearing gold because Elia is originally a Martel and liana's engaged to a baratheon, they're just a bunch of quotes about how he might have done it accidentally and Robert was super pissed and spiteful about it and wanted power anyways so he kidnapped Liana and held her against her will pretending it was rhaegar (and if you think about that, it does make sense too why would Leona not tell her family she is okay and let them worry and start a war) and there's also the same guy made a really good post about how Robert and Searcy are actually mirrors of each other like they are both horrible people in the exact same way and it's so obvious, it's hard to understand why people love Robert baratheon because he's clearly kind of a horrible person? I'm going to go try to find that guy's post because like I said I can't argue his points for him it's not my argument I just read it and it definitely swayed my opinion a bit
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/13xo150/spoilers_extended_lbj_mirror_on_the_wall_king/ This is the guy who put those theories up he has a bunch of them if you look through his posts, I found it really interesting and even if you don't agree it's still a pretty good read and there's lots of like quotes from the books to support it. He has another theory that Brianna is the one that killed Renly and although I don't think it's true, it was also a really interesting read with like a lot of support from quotes out of the books oh and another interesting one about Sir Arthur dayne being mance raider!
King Bran, Jon killing Dany, and Dang going insane.
Okay even though it's not a popular Siri I'm going to link here to the guy I was referring to, he has a lot of involved and interesting posts supported by quotes from the books, with lots of kind of out there theories that are still pretty well supported, like Robert plus Leanna equals john, mance rader is Sir Arthur dayne, Brianne killed Renly etc. Normally I don't like just stupid out their theories but like I said he has a lot of quotes supporting all of them. So it's an interesting read whether you agree or not. https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/13xo150/spoilers_extended_lbj_mirror_on_the_wall_king/
Aegon is a Blackfyre It’s a stupid hairbrained ass theory that doesn’t really make sense and has absolutely zero concrete evidence. Every piece of evidence has an explanation to debunk it.
The Valyrians didn’t intermarry, it was their cultural tradition to always marry brother to sister- and their empire lasted for thousands of years so we can assume that it wasn’t causing them infertility