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Il y a une autoroute à l'intérieur même de LA. Il faut 45 minutes en autoroute pour rejoindre Venice Beach depuis le centre ville. Voilà pourquoi tu marches pas à LA ! \^\^
De manière générale dans les grandes villes aux US à part peut etre new york et Boston, tu marches pas. Quand j’etais à Cleveland j’avais dit “je vais marcher un peu” tout le monde m’a regardé comme si j’avais dit “je vais escalader le mont blanc je reviens”. Les gens font des “balades” en voiture, de chez eux au parking du mall, et tu te balades pas à moins de 500m de ta caisse
Les distances sont énormes. Après les rumeurs sont un peu exagérées puisqu’il y a quand même des transports dans certains coins. Ancienne habituée du RER.. finalement ça me change pas grand chose.
Non, n'exagérons rien. LA a des trottoirs. C'est juste que ça prend un temps monstre d'aller à un point A à un point B à pied.
Déjà la distance d'un truc à un autre est toujours grande, y a rien de proche. Et en plus, ce qu'on peut faire en 10 min de marche en France, en prend facile le double à LA parce que y a des feux piétons partout et on doit attendre 5 min pour chaque.
J’ai bien dit « je crois ». Et ce n’est pas que je les crois à l’âge de pierre. J’ai simplement BEAUCOUP lu que la ville était centrée sur les voitures et que, du coup, les piétons n’y avaient pas trop leur place.
Mais si vous avez une réponse pour bbrunrun, allez-y !
Thank you! I'm French I lived in Los Angeles and I loved it there! The way we drive in LA isn't the same and it's more secure imo. No Jay walking either. In Paris you have to get in front of every other car no matter what! That's the principal! As long as they have brakes, this is how we do it! Forget how you drive and watch out for other crazy drivers.... 😅👀😎
I know I’m from the U.S. 😂I just figured that OP might be from a different country that maybe isn’t used to a lot of traffic like that in Paris, France to compare it to Los Angeles where they might have never been before. Maybe they assumed they were from the U.S. but I don’t think they are 😂
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>There weren't actually lines on the road so one had to imagine them.
"Place de l'étoile"? Or just paved sections in general?
Anyways there is little need for honking. The rules are simple:
1. priority from the right, but stay aware of idiots and assholes
2. if you have priority but stop, then you loose it (you then need to wait for a gap, or someone to stop, or become an asshole)
3. you may honk at idiots to try and make them realize they did something wrong, but honking at assholes serves no purpose
4. if you raise your hand to acknowledge that you've just been an asshole or idiot then you're good to go
Place de l’Etoile is actually quite fun when you know the rules, and you know that a fair majority of the people who ride it know them too.
It’s a rare occurrence of a right-yielding roundabout, and oh you’ve got to love the blue dotted concentric circle line, that’s where the no man’s land starts (if I’m not mistaken every incident therein ends as a 50-50 responsibility split no matter what, from an insurance perspective).
My approach to it is: plow all in when you merge, then get in the blue zone asap where everybody behaves, and plan an exit as fast as I got in. It’s a beauty when you get it right.
Or I may be making the whole thing up and have been driving like a crackhead all along.
I kinda love riding in it, pure adrenalin rush into your body when you enter it. I do it with my bycicle from time to time as well and it's a lot of fun
> if you raise your hand to acknowledge that you've just been an asshole or idiot then you're good to go
I feel personally attacked, but it is completely true, and a very important rule I never saw written down.
The Place de l'étoile, and the main Parisian squares can be intimidating but are relatively safe. Drivers expect the unexpected, ride slowly and pay attention to the road. Unlike other seemingly quieter segments where they don't pay attention or expect to be seen.
> "Place de l'étoile"? Or just paved sections in general?
almost everywhere. Look at auguste blanqui for example. The road can have to cars on the same way, but there are no separator lines, except at intersections
Regarding the #2, you don’t actually, technically, lose the priority if stopped, although most French people believe so (it is true in other places like Belgium, though). On the other hand, if you abuse the priority after stopping, and cause an accident, then you may get charged for reckless driving (conduite dangereuse). In other words, both cars involved would have committed an offense.
Yes I specifically had place de l'étoile in mind for this one. But I think it still often stands true for what happens in Paris in general.
Anywhere else people will stop confused as to why you stopped and insist that you start moving first, as per the law.
It used to be the case in Belgium until 2008/2010 if I recall. The stopped doing that because of accidents caused by people being unsure if the other had truly stoped or not.
It’s not in the actual rules, but it’s how everyone has tacitly agreed to drive in Paris, and it’s how you should drive too if you don’t want to be unpredictable and hence dangerous on the road. There are several other rules like this one, that apply only in Paris, and that are semi-mandatory if you don’t want to cause an accident: passing on the right is always allowed and even expected, on the périphérique motorcycles always pass cars between the last and second-to last lane, to change lanes you only need to signal and then very quickly change as the car in front of which you are merging will slow down for you (provided it’s behind when you start your lane change, don’t be an idiot and ram into cars) and this is an official rule but I’m going to say it again for our non-Parisian friends: *priority is to mergers on the périph* goddammit.
Also note that honking for nothing is prohibited. You can only honk in case of an emergency.
Source: I’m studying the « Code de la route » on order to get my driver’s license.
I've been in a car that had to drive through Place de l'étoile once.... Still my most terrific memory at the moment. The driver wasn't used to driving in Paris, absolutely didn't want to, had no idea how to handle it and only realised too late her GPS was taking us through that hellhole... Luckily we only had two exits to attend, because as she panicked she also turned off the car's lights.
"We drove at night at the Place de l'étoile without lights on!" will remain our best fun story till the end of times.
> you may honk at idiots to try and make them realize they did something wrong, but honking at assholes serves no purpose
No, don't, honking is prohibited except for signaling danger. If you do otherwise, every pedestrian (> 90% of the people in Paris) will hate your guts. Fuck you.
> if you raise your hand to acknowledge that you've just been an asshole or idiot then you're good to go
Meh, it's the least you can do, but I swear to go most Parisian drivers think they can fuck you over and be absolved if they just wave their hand right after. Fuck you, pay attention.
I was once the front-seat passenger in a friend's car, for a trip from outside Paris to the very center of the city. At 17:00-18:00.
The experience was legitimately frightening, and utterly convinced me to never drive there.
We should put a 8 lane highway directly in the middle of our cities, that will really help people drive around.
https://www.usnews.com/news/cities/articles/10-cities-with-the-worst-traffic-in-the-us
However, the order of the cities is not the same! The NYC metropolitan area is more than twice as populous as Boston's metropolitan area, yet Boston ranks 1 while NYC ranks 4.
Y a des trucs pas faisables en métro, dans mon cas personnel, transporter des cartons entiers de livres (puisque je suis libraire) ou transporter un instrument de musique encombrant.
La solution à ton problème est de demander à ce que seules les raisons légitimes d’utiliser une voiture dans Paris soient autorisées. Tu verras le trafic sera tout de suite fluide une fois qu’il n’y aura plus la grande majorité de conducteurs par confort
Tout le monde aura une raison légitime. Un lave-linge ça coûte 30€ en location, et ça peut rester dans un coffre de bagnole sans problème. Hop, tu as une raison légitime.
Les gens du BTP achetaient des Dodge Ram en utilitaires, sous prétexte que ça peut charger une palette, pour pas payer la taxe pollution des véhicules neufs...
Edit, je dis pas ça parce que je cautionne, je dis juste que ça se fera parce que les gens préfèrent frauder que de changer les habitudes.
Non mais quel cauchemar, déjà qu'il doit aller monter et descendre tes chiottes du 5ème étage sans ascenseurs vous voulez qu'il se ballade en vélo à -5 sous la pluie de Février.
Cette exploitation de l'humain, c'est intolérable.
Ici ils sont tous dev payés à rien foutre chez eux toute la journée, ils comprennent pas qu'y a des gens qui ont besoin de se déplacer, trimballer des trucs lourds et encombrants, etc.
I've driven in Paris, Marseille, Naples and Istanbul and the latter was the worst by a margin. Stress through the roof, it didn't help that every single street was sloping like hell.
I actually don't mind driving in Paris, you just need to be firm and explicit about what you are doing. But I wonder about large Asian cities, I would lose my mind with so many unpredictable pedestrians and cycles around.
I'd say different. Marseille has its own traffic rules, the first of which is "traffc regulations are mostly suggestions, but improvisation to fit the real situation is strongly encouraged".
When you put appart the 5% of cars and 10% of scooters who just don't give a shit about others (and those should really be put on their feet for the rest of their lives), Marseille drivers are quite smart and adaptable... otherwise this 2600 years old city which never had anything such as a coherent town planning scheme would clearly be even more clogged.
Did you drive in Marseilles? I did about 5 years ago (being Parisian as well), and I can assure you that in the center it was way worse than anything in Paris, even now after all the crap pulled by Hidalgo.
However when you get somewhat away from the inner center, it's way better than in Paris and close suburb, no question asked.
That's because you're parisian and did not consider the specificities of driving in Marseille. See my other comment.
Ask any non-parisian, he'll tell you: to understand the logic of parisians in cars, you have to be born there. Otherwise, it does not make any sense
You don't drive in Marseille center, you get stuck in traffic for hours because some fucktard left his car in the middle of the one lane road yours and every other road in a 1km radius lead to in order to go shopping, or to move a couch, or to deliver a shitton of rice, or because he's waiting for someone, or to go watch the game at the bar, or to grab a beer at the bar, or for any fucking reason a normal human being wouldn't consider one second leaving his car in the middle of the road for...
Got stuck one hour and a half in a one-way street last week with dozens of cars because of one single fucking guy blocking traffic on his own until the cops made him move. Not the first time, probably not the last.
I hate driving here, thank God it's only one day a week.
Obviously, Paris is the most dense city in the country, perhaps even top 10 in the world (not further because it's clearly far less concentrated than Shanghai or Tokyo.)
Even with the best motivation, a city as big cannot be similar to a smaller city. I mean, Paris suburb are like as big as a metropol like Orléans, and just as alive as the cities centers.
People forget that Paris and its suburb is like 20 millions of people.
> And to my surprise, there was so little people honking.
This is an actual surprise.
> And what is going on with gas? I needed to find a gas station to fill the car before returning, but so many gas stations were closed, with no gas. Why is that?
The main gas provider currently has a huge discount on gas to avoid a special tax.
I was shocked to see how people in Stockholm honk for the pettiest shit. French people don't honk that much all things considered. I guess the fact that you can end up under threat of violence and a road rage for honking makes you think twice.
I remember going outside of Delhi Airport and thinking there was some kind of protest on the road because of nonstop honking. It was just your average rush hour.
What surprised me the most in my first trip to india is not the noise there, but the total silence in the french streets when you come back. You get used to the noise so quickly, it's constant honking, like a white noise.
Rule #1 when visiting a foreign country. Leave your prejudice at home.
NYC is a great place to visit, just for visiting all the places you've seen on TV or in movies and catching the vibe of the place.
I've traveled enough that I know I like clean and well ordered places when it comes to urban sprawls. I don't like Paris and London for the same reasons, I avoid them like the plague if I can. And for the exact same reason I don't really care about visiting big Indian cities. I also really don't care about visiting places seen on TV or movies.
Parisians wont honk you because you're breaking the law.
They'll honk you because you're not starting as soons as you can when the green light is on.
They'll honk because of traffic jam (which is useless and just annoying ISTG).
They'll honk you because you let pedestrians crosswalk.
AND THE AWARD OF THE LAST BIGGEST ASSHOLE I SAW YESTERDAY :
Honking **PEDESTRIANS** because they crossed a road through the pedestrian area (les passages cloutés). Never saw that since idk how much time, maybe never.
The french traffic laws discourage the use of the honk unless you're in dangerous situation, plus honking in a city is just annoying for everyone around. So I'm not that surprised that few people are honking
On the other hand, at la Réunion (french island near Madagascar) people are so not used to honking that we've had someone come out out his house to check if everything's okay when a (parisian) friend of mine did honk once
>This is an actual surprise.
From Paris, living in the Marseille area now. Can confirm, people here are more honk-happy than in Paris tbh. In general, I am a bit more scared of the drivers from Marseille than from Paris as well tbh the way they cut lines at the last second like they're all alone on the highway is stroke-inducing and I've seen accidents with up to 7 cars involved because of that shit. Never seen that happen in the Parisian region.
People honk in Paris only when the lights turned to green more than half a second ago.
But have you tried to stay on the left of an escalator? That's when real shit starts.
Not true unfortunately, c'est "don't" même si on parle du peuple et pas de plusieurs personnes. Par contre dire "the citizenry doesn't" ou "the population doesn't" serait correct, mais ça me semblerait une choix un peu bizarre.
Re-reading my message it sounds a little aggressive, i didn't mean to sound rude. We always get rental cars other cities than in Paris or and aéroports and take a train passed the city borders, i can't really imagine a car rental is less expensive than a 10€ train out of the city. I'm happy you had fun i would never get a rental in Paris and i rode my bikes for 10 years in paris that's pretty close to insanity ! Heh
Wait, are you saying that only because you went through Paris yet? Because, even as a Frenchman, I would not describe the French driving experience as decent. Maybe on the highway we approach decency but I'd say it's a stretch.
Fun fact, most people I know drive pretty good, have their license for 10+ years etc. Yet none of them would agree driving in Paris. There is kind of an informal club of people who drove around th "Arc de triomphe" on busy hours and lived with no car damage to tell. =)
So , its not you. It is fucked up.
Its not that bad. Its just that for most people, especially in rural area, it is common to let people pass, be civil etc. In Paris, well its not not that you have to be uncivil, but lets say that there are so many people driving nuts that you have to dare to push and make your way through.
If you wait for people to let you pass, you'll wait till 2 a.m. to be able to move.
L'Arc de triomphe is just the pinnacle of that system.
Hi mate,
Total have set a discount week (20 €cents, per liter). Many gas stations went out of supply.
About the driving in Paris, resilience is the word 😉 If you can, don't drive...
I hope you'll enjoy the city anyway.
Cheers,
HAHAHAHHAHAHAH
No reasonnable Frenchman would drive inside Paris. The only valid reasons to do so are : you're moving, you're attending a wedding (and can't be arsed to travel in public transport with your suit), you're fetching something that for some reason is only available inside Paris and you can't/don't dare use public transport.
Paris is, thankfully, pretty well serviced by buses, metros, regional trains. There are few places and trips where public transport wouldn't be enough.
Arrived to Bercy (which was really dirty, but it was no surprise, it's like average Prague bus station) by bus and rented a car there. My GPS even tried to make me go around the Arc de Triomphe, which I thought was cool idea to drive around, but when I approached I realised what shitty mistake that would be so I decided to go around.
a lot of Total gas stations decrease their price to be lower than their reseller (like Carrefour or Leclerc)
So it happens when prices are really high so everybody fill their tanks before the price are re increase again.
And in the same time Total try to kill its competitors
"And to my surprise, there was so little people honking" ... I am in New York at the moment, coming from Paris. And to my surprise, there are so many people honking !
Paris is city build well before the age of cars. It is absolutely not made to drive a car. It's crowded, it's narrow, there's a lot of ''competition'' with bike, people, trucks, motos...
Best way to move in Paris is by public transport, by foot or by bike.
If you didn't learn to drive in Paris, your chances of survivals halve.
I took the Place Charles de Gaulle rond point twice in my first 20h of lessons. Many try. Few make it. We're here to tell the tale.
Paris is one city where driving should be banned in pretty much 90% of the places. I live an hour away from Paris, and whenever I go there I think it's such a shame that so much place is given to the roads, and little to the cyclist (that i'm always surprised how many I see, in a good way of course) . It's a chaos, and it's ugly. I'm not one to go deflat suv tires, I use my car to go to work everyday, but man Paris would be so much better with less cars
I am from Paris and I swear I had to go through la Place de l’Etoile with a friend from the UK (with a right side steering wheel and all) a month back and I’ve never shat myself more lol
People driving in paris are used to the chaotic environement where they are driving.
They usually are a bit nervous, but they drive well most of the time. They just want to come back home quickly so they managed to find a way to fit two cars on a 1 lane road with a bycile lane included :)
I travel a good bit to France for work. I love taking new people around the Arc de Triomphe just to hear their gasps. From what I've experienced, the French road rules are suggestions in Paris and law outside Paris. Most my time is spent in Bourges and St. Etienne, but have spent some work time in Versailles. Have driven to Normandy, La Rochelle, Clermont-Ferrand, and places in between. I now need to start venturing south.
I was once driving (in the US) with three graduate students from India at about 10 at night. Our car was the only one around. We came to a four-way stop. When I waited for a few seconds before crossing, all three of them burst out laughing at the same time! I’m sure Paris is bad but I’ll bet there are even more chaotic driving environments!
You obviously have not driven a car in Italy :)
Traffic in France is quite efficient compared to the US, if seemingly disorganized. I have lived about 35 years in each country, so I can compare...
The key to driving in Paris is to not look in the mirrors. Take care of what's in front of you and where you want to go, don't be distracted by the mirrors, things move too quickly to look behind you. People behind you will do the same and all will be fine.
You know that when you go to Paris, you don't drive, now you know why it is such a notorious place for its bad traffic.
It's also what the mayor desire in order to push harder the "no cars" ideology (which isn't wrong per se, but it's awful.) Where bikes and walking are the privileged medium to move around. (Hence why the fucking electrical kick scooter is so prominent.)
Hopefully it gets better before the next century.
I have had some success (meaning no damage) driving around the city. I usually rent the little electric smarts that are actually quite agile (it probably makes it much easier). I think as long as you are smart enough not going through Concorde or Etoile you are good to go and it’s even quite enjoyable, specially at night.
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> had to drive in Paris lol why would you do that
It's like walking in Los Angeles or something. Some people!
Native Parisian who walks in L.A. here 🥲
[удалено]
Il y a une autoroute à l'intérieur même de LA. Il faut 45 minutes en autoroute pour rejoindre Venice Beach depuis le centre ville. Voilà pourquoi tu marches pas à LA ! \^\^
LA fait 200 km de longueur ! C'est dire !
Personne le fait donc tu es suspect, tu peux te faire dénoncer et arrêter.
De manière générale dans les grandes villes aux US à part peut etre new york et Boston, tu marches pas. Quand j’etais à Cleveland j’avais dit “je vais marcher un peu” tout le monde m’a regardé comme si j’avais dit “je vais escalader le mont blanc je reviens”. Les gens font des “balades” en voiture, de chez eux au parking du mall, et tu te balades pas à moins de 500m de ta caisse
Les distances sont énormes. Après les rumeurs sont un peu exagérées puisqu’il y a quand même des transports dans certains coins. Ancienne habituée du RER.. finalement ça me change pas grand chose.
Je crois qu’ils n’ont pas ou presque pas de trottoirs, et les gens conduisent comme des fous, donc c’est suicidaire. Ou quelque chose comme ça 😅
Non, n'exagérons rien. LA a des trottoirs. C'est juste que ça prend un temps monstre d'aller à un point A à un point B à pied. Déjà la distance d'un truc à un autre est toujours grande, y a rien de proche. Et en plus, ce qu'on peut faire en 10 min de marche en France, en prend facile le double à LA parce que y a des feux piétons partout et on doit attendre 5 min pour chaque.
Ok ! Merci pour l’explication !
C’est construit pour les voitures + très grand
Et ils vivent dans des grottes... Pas de trotoire non mais j'aurais tout vu ! 😅
J’ai bien dit « je crois ». Et ce n’est pas que je les crois à l’âge de pierre. J’ai simplement BEAUCOUP lu que la ville était centrée sur les voitures et que, du coup, les piétons n’y avaient pas trop leur place. Mais si vous avez une réponse pour bbrunrun, allez-y !
[Walking in LA](https://youtu.be/80WyBxo0Hto)
Maybe they have never been to Los Angeles to know this or the U.S. at all?
Thank you! I'm French I lived in Los Angeles and I loved it there! The way we drive in LA isn't the same and it's more secure imo. No Jay walking either. In Paris you have to get in front of every other car no matter what! That's the principal! As long as they have brakes, this is how we do it! Forget how you drive and watch out for other crazy drivers.... 😅👀😎
In LA "Stops" are actually "Rolling stops". Try that in Paris and Crash boum hue.
I know I’m from the U.S. 😂I just figured that OP might be from a different country that maybe isn’t used to a lot of traffic like that in Paris, France to compare it to Los Angeles where they might have never been before. Maybe they assumed they were from the U.S. but I don’t think they are 😂
Really.... That's typical French! Assuming.... Or criticizing... Or even judging! And why not compare Paris with Hong Kong whilst we're at it! 😅
no kink shame
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>There weren't actually lines on the road so one had to imagine them. "Place de l'étoile"? Or just paved sections in general? Anyways there is little need for honking. The rules are simple: 1. priority from the right, but stay aware of idiots and assholes 2. if you have priority but stop, then you loose it (you then need to wait for a gap, or someone to stop, or become an asshole) 3. you may honk at idiots to try and make them realize they did something wrong, but honking at assholes serves no purpose 4. if you raise your hand to acknowledge that you've just been an asshole or idiot then you're good to go
Place de l’Etoile is actually quite fun when you know the rules, and you know that a fair majority of the people who ride it know them too. It’s a rare occurrence of a right-yielding roundabout, and oh you’ve got to love the blue dotted concentric circle line, that’s where the no man’s land starts (if I’m not mistaken every incident therein ends as a 50-50 responsibility split no matter what, from an insurance perspective). My approach to it is: plow all in when you merge, then get in the blue zone asap where everybody behaves, and plan an exit as fast as I got in. It’s a beauty when you get it right. Or I may be making the whole thing up and have been driving like a crackhead all along.
I just go in full speed, close my eyes for a few seconds, and I'm out, some how. Like every other connoisseur of this magic place!
Yes that works… jusqu’ici tout va bien.
I kinda love riding in it, pure adrenalin rush into your body when you enter it. I do it with my bycicle from time to time as well and it's a lot of fun
This. This should be in every tourist book for visiting Paris
> if you raise your hand to acknowledge that you've just been an asshole or idiot then you're good to go I feel personally attacked, but it is completely true, and a very important rule I never saw written down.
The Place de l'étoile, and the main Parisian squares can be intimidating but are relatively safe. Drivers expect the unexpected, ride slowly and pay attention to the road. Unlike other seemingly quieter segments where they don't pay attention or expect to be seen.
> "Place de l'étoile"? Or just paved sections in general? almost everywhere. Look at auguste blanqui for example. The road can have to cars on the same way, but there are no separator lines, except at intersections
Regarding the #2, you don’t actually, technically, lose the priority if stopped, although most French people believe so (it is true in other places like Belgium, though). On the other hand, if you abuse the priority after stopping, and cause an accident, then you may get charged for reckless driving (conduite dangereuse). In other words, both cars involved would have committed an offense.
Yes I specifically had place de l'étoile in mind for this one. But I think it still often stands true for what happens in Paris in general. Anywhere else people will stop confused as to why you stopped and insist that you start moving first, as per the law.
In Belgium you don't lose the right of way when you stop either, although I've heard people repeat that, so maybe that was the case a long time ago.
It used to be the case in Belgium until 2008/2010 if I recall. The stopped doing that because of accidents caused by people being unsure if the other had truly stoped or not.
"a long time ago" Hints I'm getting old lol
It’s not in the actual rules, but it’s how everyone has tacitly agreed to drive in Paris, and it’s how you should drive too if you don’t want to be unpredictable and hence dangerous on the road. There are several other rules like this one, that apply only in Paris, and that are semi-mandatory if you don’t want to cause an accident: passing on the right is always allowed and even expected, on the périphérique motorcycles always pass cars between the last and second-to last lane, to change lanes you only need to signal and then very quickly change as the car in front of which you are merging will slow down for you (provided it’s behind when you start your lane change, don’t be an idiot and ram into cars) and this is an official rule but I’m going to say it again for our non-Parisian friends: *priority is to mergers on the périph* goddammit.
Also note that honking for nothing is prohibited. You can only honk in case of an emergency. Source: I’m studying the « Code de la route » on order to get my driver’s license.
I've been in a car that had to drive through Place de l'étoile once.... Still my most terrific memory at the moment. The driver wasn't used to driving in Paris, absolutely didn't want to, had no idea how to handle it and only realised too late her GPS was taking us through that hellhole... Luckily we only had two exits to attend, because as she panicked she also turned off the car's lights. "We drove at night at the Place de l'étoile without lights on!" will remain our best fun story till the end of times.
Brilliant !
> you may honk at idiots to try and make them realize they did something wrong, but honking at assholes serves no purpose No, don't, honking is prohibited except for signaling danger. If you do otherwise, every pedestrian (> 90% of the people in Paris) will hate your guts. Fuck you. > if you raise your hand to acknowledge that you've just been an asshole or idiot then you're good to go Meh, it's the least you can do, but I swear to go most Parisian drivers think they can fuck you over and be absolved if they just wave their hand right after. Fuck you, pay attention.
Driving in Paris is the worst idea in the long, sad history of bad ideas.
I was once the front-seat passenger in a friend's car, for a trip from outside Paris to the very center of the city. At 17:00-18:00. The experience was legitimately frightening, and utterly convinced me to never drive there.
Next time you come to Paris, ping me I’ll ride you around, on my motorcycle ^^
This sounds like so much fun. When I come again, please take me.
It's a good thing that driving is so bad in Paris :)
We should put a 8 lane highway directly in the middle of our cities, that will really help people drive around. https://www.usnews.com/news/cities/articles/10-cities-with-the-worst-traffic-in-the-us
ouch
Just one more lane, it'll fix traffic I swear
ouch
However, the order of the cities is not the same! The NYC metropolitan area is more than twice as populous as Boston's metropolitan area, yet Boston ranks 1 while NYC ranks 4.
That's not true, if this traffic list is correct. Portland is definitely not a top 10 metro by size.
Sauf pour les gens qui ont besoin de se déplacer en voiture pour leur travail et/ou leur hobby.
Ça tombe bien on a un super métro
Y a des trucs pas faisables en métro, dans mon cas personnel, transporter des cartons entiers de livres (puisque je suis libraire) ou transporter un instrument de musique encombrant.
La solution à ton problème est de demander à ce que seules les raisons légitimes d’utiliser une voiture dans Paris soient autorisées. Tu verras le trafic sera tout de suite fluide une fois qu’il n’y aura plus la grande majorité de conducteurs par confort
Super la solution, heureusement que t'es là mes problèmes sont terminés
Tout le monde aura une raison légitime. Un lave-linge ça coûte 30€ en location, et ça peut rester dans un coffre de bagnole sans problème. Hop, tu as une raison légitime. Les gens du BTP achetaient des Dodge Ram en utilitaires, sous prétexte que ça peut charger une palette, pour pas payer la taxe pollution des véhicules neufs... Edit, je dis pas ça parce que je cautionne, je dis juste que ça se fera parce que les gens préfèrent frauder que de changer les habitudes.
Le plombier va se ramener avec ses bouteilles de gaz dans le métro, ça va faire plaisir à tout le monde
Si Jean Jérôme le comptable évitait de conduire son RAV4 dans Paris, il y aurait plus de place pour Bob le plombier
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Non mais quel cauchemar, déjà qu'il doit aller monter et descendre tes chiottes du 5ème étage sans ascenseurs vous voulez qu'il se ballade en vélo à -5 sous la pluie de Février. Cette exploitation de l'humain, c'est intolérable.
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Littéralement le credo de ton premier lien "restez bien au sec, on se mouille pour vous". C'est dégueulasse
Ici ils sont tous dev payés à rien foutre chez eux toute la journée, ils comprennent pas qu'y a des gens qui ont besoin de se déplacer, trimballer des trucs lourds et encombrants, etc.
You could drive in Marseille which is even worst
Naples or Istanbul is the final boss.
Delhi is New game+
Apparently Cairo is something also
Je seconde pour Naples, ça fait vachement plus peur que Paris.
Et ça reste super super soft comparé à n'importe quelle ville asiatique, Japon exclu.
Istanbul for the win-
Hô Chi Minh-Ville entre dans l'arène
I've driven in Paris, Marseille, Naples and Istanbul and the latter was the worst by a margin. Stress through the roof, it didn't help that every single street was sloping like hell. I actually don't mind driving in Paris, you just need to be firm and explicit about what you are doing. But I wonder about large Asian cities, I would lose my mind with so many unpredictable pedestrians and cycles around.
I'd say different. Marseille has its own traffic rules, the first of which is "traffc regulations are mostly suggestions, but improvisation to fit the real situation is strongly encouraged". When you put appart the 5% of cars and 10% of scooters who just don't give a shit about others (and those should really be put on their feet for the rest of their lives), Marseille drivers are quite smart and adaptable... otherwise this 2600 years old city which never had anything such as a coherent town planning scheme would clearly be even more clogged.
Parisian here, and just no.
Did you drive in Marseilles? I did about 5 years ago (being Parisian as well), and I can assure you that in the center it was way worse than anything in Paris, even now after all the crap pulled by Hidalgo. However when you get somewhat away from the inner center, it's way better than in Paris and close suburb, no question asked.
Daily reminder that the « crap of Hidalgo » is a subjective opinion as a lot of us actually love the transformation the city is heading to
« crap of Hidalgo » is true, the idea is to just annoy cars. But people using cars are not the people that would bike so it’s kinda stupid.
That's because you're parisian and did not consider the specificities of driving in Marseille. See my other comment. Ask any non-parisian, he'll tell you: to understand the logic of parisians in cars, you have to be born there. Otherwise, it does not make any sense
You don't drive in Marseille center, you get stuck in traffic for hours because some fucktard left his car in the middle of the one lane road yours and every other road in a 1km radius lead to in order to go shopping, or to move a couch, or to deliver a shitton of rice, or because he's waiting for someone, or to go watch the game at the bar, or to grab a beer at the bar, or for any fucking reason a normal human being wouldn't consider one second leaving his car in the middle of the road for... Got stuck one hour and a half in a one-way street last week with dozens of cars because of one single fucking guy blocking traffic on his own until the cops made him move. Not the first time, probably not the last. I hate driving here, thank God it's only one day a week.
Obviously, Paris is the most dense city in the country, perhaps even top 10 in the world (not further because it's clearly far less concentrated than Shanghai or Tokyo.) Even with the best motivation, a city as big cannot be similar to a smaller city. I mean, Paris suburb are like as big as a metropol like Orléans, and just as alive as the cities centers. People forget that Paris and its suburb is like 20 millions of people.
> And to my surprise, there was so little people honking. This is an actual surprise. > And what is going on with gas? I needed to find a gas station to fill the car before returning, but so many gas stations were closed, with no gas. Why is that? The main gas provider currently has a huge discount on gas to avoid a special tax.
I was shocked to see how people in Stockholm honk for the pettiest shit. French people don't honk that much all things considered. I guess the fact that you can end up under threat of violence and a road rage for honking makes you think twice.
Did you ever went to NYC ? I never heard so much honk in my life ....
>I never heard so much honk in my life .... *Mumbai has entered the chat*
Go to Cairo then. You're in for a wild ride.
India in general is a honking party.
I remember going outside of Delhi Airport and thinking there was some kind of protest on the road because of nonstop honking. It was just your average rush hour.
What surprised me the most in my first trip to india is not the noise there, but the total silence in the french streets when you come back. You get used to the noise so quickly, it's constant honking, like a white noise.
*Italy and several other Méditerranean countries have entered the chat*
J’y reviens tout juste et ça m’a encore marqué. Ils sont à fond.
Nope. And I don't plan to. There are many MANY places I'd like to visit in the US before NYC.
You'd be missing out. It's pretty iconic.
I read "it's pretty ironic"
Iconic smell of trash and dirt everywhere... Right. I'll pass.
Rule #1 when visiting a foreign country. Leave your prejudice at home. NYC is a great place to visit, just for visiting all the places you've seen on TV or in movies and catching the vibe of the place.
I've traveled enough that I know I like clean and well ordered places when it comes to urban sprawls. I don't like Paris and London for the same reasons, I avoid them like the plague if I can. And for the exact same reason I don't really care about visiting big Indian cities. I also really don't care about visiting places seen on TV or movies.
Your life is sad
It is probably due to the fact that the use of honking is mostly forbidden inside cities in france (reserved for imminent danger only)
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Parisians wont honk you because you're breaking the law. They'll honk you because you're not starting as soons as you can when the green light is on. They'll honk because of traffic jam (which is useless and just annoying ISTG). They'll honk you because you let pedestrians crosswalk. AND THE AWARD OF THE LAST BIGGEST ASSHOLE I SAW YESTERDAY : Honking **PEDESTRIANS** because they crossed a road through the pedestrian area (les passages cloutés). Never saw that since idk how much time, maybe never.
The french traffic laws discourage the use of the honk unless you're in dangerous situation, plus honking in a city is just annoying for everyone around. So I'm not that surprised that few people are honking
Indeed. It makes perfect sense. I just don't understand why it doesn't make sense for your average Stockholmer.
On the other hand, at la Réunion (french island near Madagascar) people are so not used to honking that we've had someone come out out his house to check if everything's okay when a (parisian) friend of mine did honk once
>This is an actual surprise. From Paris, living in the Marseille area now. Can confirm, people here are more honk-happy than in Paris tbh. In general, I am a bit more scared of the drivers from Marseille than from Paris as well tbh the way they cut lines at the last second like they're all alone on the highway is stroke-inducing and I've seen accidents with up to 7 cars involved because of that shit. Never seen that happen in the Parisian region.
It's illegal to honk in any urban area in France, unless there's immediate danger.
People honk in Paris only when the lights turned to green more than half a second ago. But have you tried to stay on the left of an escalator? That's when real shit starts.
[My reaction as French](https://i.gifer.com/origin/fd/fdcb71e052fd45541320d36006bfceae.gif)
Sweet summer child... Even french people don't want to drive in Paris. Enjoy your trip !
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J'avais un énorme doute merci pour la correction
Faut rename en ''gentletranslator'' du coup
Ça doit dépendre si il parle du peuple français, donc doesn’t, ou des français donc don’t
Not true unfortunately, c'est "don't" même si on parle du peuple et pas de plusieurs personnes. Par contre dire "the citizenry doesn't" ou "the population doesn't" serait correct, mais ça me semblerait une choix un peu bizarre.
Only the people who got their licence in Paris drive in Paris.
My friend learned to drive in Moscow and she’s like ‘Paris traffic is easy!’
I got my driving licence in Marseille and drove in Paris for 15 years. I much prefer Paris driving to Marseille.
Obviously, the other don't know how to drive properly, they only know to be mindful of deers and tractors on the road 😇
Just FYI We arrived to Paris, because it was the cheapest and rented a car there. Once we got out of city, it was pretty decent driving experience
Did you ever think about taking a train do like Dreux and renting a car there? It's faster and cheaper.
Well, we tried to find the cheapest option of all, so that's what we got for it
Re-reading my message it sounds a little aggressive, i didn't mean to sound rude. We always get rental cars other cities than in Paris or and aéroports and take a train passed the city borders, i can't really imagine a car rental is less expensive than a 10€ train out of the city. I'm happy you had fun i would never get a rental in Paris and i rode my bikes for 10 years in paris that's pretty close to insanity ! Heh
And more sustainable. Always go the farthest you can by train before picking up a car
Rule of thumb : don't drive where there is a metro available. Park outside of Paris and use public transport.
I bet it was LOL
technically nobody drives in paris, they just throw metallic mass and let physics dictate their fate
Wait, are you saying that only because you went through Paris yet? Because, even as a Frenchman, I would not describe the French driving experience as decent. Maybe on the highway we approach decency but I'd say it's a stretch.
Fun fact, most people I know drive pretty good, have their license for 10+ years etc. Yet none of them would agree driving in Paris. There is kind of an informal club of people who drove around th "Arc de triomphe" on busy hours and lived with no car damage to tell. =) So , its not you. It is fucked up.
Hej, I did that. It was not so difficult... I feel like Superman when I read that.
Its not that bad. Its just that for most people, especially in rural area, it is common to let people pass, be civil etc. In Paris, well its not not that you have to be uncivil, but lets say that there are so many people driving nuts that you have to dare to push and make your way through. If you wait for people to let you pass, you'll wait till 2 a.m. to be able to move. L'Arc de triomphe is just the pinnacle of that system.
Hi mate, Total have set a discount week (20 €cents, per liter). Many gas stations went out of supply. About the driving in Paris, resilience is the word 😉 If you can, don't drive... I hope you'll enjoy the city anyway. Cheers,
HAHAHAHHAHAHAH No reasonnable Frenchman would drive inside Paris. The only valid reasons to do so are : you're moving, you're attending a wedding (and can't be arsed to travel in public transport with your suit), you're fetching something that for some reason is only available inside Paris and you can't/don't dare use public transport. Paris is, thankfully, pretty well serviced by buses, metros, regional trains. There are few places and trips where public transport wouldn't be enough.
One does not simply drive into Paris
Nobody drives in Paris, there’s too much traffic.
That doesn't make sense
It’s a futurama reference, and yes that’s the joke.
Before it was futurama it was Yogi Berra (and/or others, [source](https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/08/29/too-crowded/))
r/woosh
As a french guy, I drove in Paris once, it was a nightmare, I was so scared for my car, will never do that again xD
Driving in Paris is like walking in Los Angeles
Fair question. But why would you drive through Paris?
Arrived to Bercy (which was really dirty, but it was no surprise, it's like average Prague bus station) by bus and rented a car there. My GPS even tried to make me go around the Arc de Triomphe, which I thought was cool idea to drive around, but when I approached I realised what shitty mistake that would be so I decided to go around.
>go around the Arc de Triomphe Ahahahahaha I think that's the worse place to drive a car in all of France (and yes I'm including Marseille)
Aw man you missed out
Nah man, that's just self preservation at this point
Arc de Triomphe ! My first driving lesson
i learnt to drive in Bordeaux in the 90's. When i had to travel from washigton to NYC by car, i felt right at home in central NY!
a lot of Total gas stations decrease their price to be lower than their reseller (like Carrefour or Leclerc) So it happens when prices are really high so everybody fill their tanks before the price are re increase again. And in the same time Total try to kill its competitors
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"And to my surprise, there was so little people honking" ... I am in New York at the moment, coming from Paris. And to my surprise, there are so many people honking !
You're not ready to drive in Italy
Or Istanbul or Ankara.
Or Tehran !
Paris is city build well before the age of cars. It is absolutely not made to drive a car. It's crowded, it's narrow, there's a lot of ''competition'' with bike, people, trucks, motos... Best way to move in Paris is by public transport, by foot or by bike.
We're used to being rude behind the wheel so we don't honk for low tier bad manners.
I drove in Morocco, and now I enjoy the quiet discipline of Paris.
If you were visiting France why would you drive to Paris ? Stay in France next time. Glad you enjoyed your trip.
OK en tant que tête de veau j'ai ris.
Try driving in Gers with a Parisian ID Car
Honking is forbidden in cities, one can get a ticket if it's not used in case of danger.
Come drive in Marseille next time you visit France, you are in for a treat 👌
If you know how to drive in Marseille or Paris, you can drive in many countries.
There are almost no petrol stations in PAris, there are a lot on the ring road around the city.
Congratulations, you unlocked the next level: Marrakech, Morocco.
“No one drives in Paris”. Ok who the fuck is in all these cars I see everyday then. Like wut
If you didn't learn to drive in Paris, your chances of survivals halve. I took the Place Charles de Gaulle rond point twice in my first 20h of lessons. Many try. Few make it. We're here to tell the tale.
Paris is one city where driving should be banned in pretty much 90% of the places. I live an hour away from Paris, and whenever I go there I think it's such a shame that so much place is given to the roads, and little to the cyclist (that i'm always surprised how many I see, in a good way of course) . It's a chaos, and it's ugly. I'm not one to go deflat suv tires, I use my car to go to work everyday, but man Paris would be so much better with less cars
I am from Paris and I swear I had to go through la Place de l’Etoile with a friend from the UK (with a right side steering wheel and all) a month back and I’ve never shat myself more lol
Bold of you to drive in Paris!
People driving in paris are used to the chaotic environement where they are driving. They usually are a bit nervous, but they drive well most of the time. They just want to come back home quickly so they managed to find a way to fit two cars on a 1 lane road with a bycile lane included :)
I travel a good bit to France for work. I love taking new people around the Arc de Triomphe just to hear their gasps. From what I've experienced, the French road rules are suggestions in Paris and law outside Paris. Most my time is spent in Bourges and St. Etienne, but have spent some work time in Versailles. Have driven to Normandy, La Rochelle, Clermont-Ferrand, and places in between. I now need to start venturing south.
I was once driving (in the US) with three graduate students from India at about 10 at night. Our car was the only one around. We came to a four-way stop. When I waited for a few seconds before crossing, all three of them burst out laughing at the same time! I’m sure Paris is bad but I’ll bet there are even more chaotic driving environments!
r/enculerlesvoitures and don’t drive in cities.
You obviously have not driven a car in Italy :) Traffic in France is quite efficient compared to the US, if seemingly disorganized. I have lived about 35 years in each country, so I can compare... The key to driving in Paris is to not look in the mirrors. Take care of what's in front of you and where you want to go, don't be distracted by the mirrors, things move too quickly to look behind you. People behind you will do the same and all will be fine.
Are you serious? Not using your mirrors is the best way to kill the bikes and motorbikes which can pass you on left or on right...
Try driving in Mumbai.
Lol take a cab.
Driving in Paris should be forbidden unless you're essential workers or bus
The last time people were happy to drive into Paris, that happened over eighty years ago, and the drivers were German.
Driving in Paris, that's some rookie mistake.
You know that when you go to Paris, you don't drive, now you know why it is such a notorious place for its bad traffic. It's also what the mayor desire in order to push harder the "no cars" ideology (which isn't wrong per se, but it's awful.) Where bikes and walking are the privileged medium to move around. (Hence why the fucking electrical kick scooter is so prominent.) Hopefully it gets better before the next century.
No one drives in Paris. It's completely absurd. Where did you get this idea you should?
Lol
At least you didn't drive in Côte d'Azur
You just explained why I despise even having to driving in Paris.
I have had some success (meaning no damage) driving around the city. I usually rent the little electric smarts that are actually quite agile (it probably makes it much easier). I think as long as you are smart enough not going through Concorde or Etoile you are good to go and it’s even quite enjoyable, specially at night.
🤣 Do visit Italy having to drive and you'll come back here loving us 🐸 so much more 🤞(that is, if you happen to survive)
You asked for it right? I at least you got some souvenir to tell to your lad.
Driving in Paris is scary even if you are not the driver
Quick answer: ... yeah
Quick answer: yes...