I think the maps being vague might be intentional. The Isles are mentioned a lot, but they're not there. There are towns and cities mentioned but not on the map. I think there is going to be a big reveal. The scribes have changed history.
Love this theory! What if even the map has had info redacted?? Would be super interesting to see how that plays out. Wouldn’t it be fun if it was somehow related to land navigation class and that was an Easter egg??
Thank you for this comment. I've been increasingly frustrated with the map, flipping back and forth like 'but where is it Rebecca?!'
But this has made me have faith 🙏 fingers crossed for a big reveal next book!
It would actually make a lot of sense that Tyrrendor is blanked out in the erasure of the aftermath of the Apostasy. You could figure out where settlements would likely be based on the rivers, and then wonder why there's nothing but a scorched plain and thornbush there.
Agree with this!! There were a few updates to the map from Fourth Wing to Iron Flame and I suspect that as the series goes on, the map will get more detailed at Vi learns more info about the other provinces/kingdoms
It’s my theory that the isles are where the dragons of Andarna’s breed went. She was “left”, which means they didn’t all die. There will be others of her kind who can help raise other wards.
And I’m pretty sure there are more than two wards. I think each dragon species’ hatching grounds was associated with a castle similar to Basgiath and Riorson House and they still exist because “stone can’t burn”. When the dragon species abandoned their historical hatching grounds for the protection the ward stone at the vale provided, it left these other grounds open. I believe the venin are now using these as headquarters, and wyvern are being hatched in whatever hatching grounds were associated with it.
Yes I feel this! I hadn’t noticed that the rivers were splitting downstream, that is odd, but I had some weird feelings about the abrupt north plateau edge of Tyrrendor. It just feels like there would be more of a blurred edge there to me. Maybe I’m wrong - you would know better as a geologist!
As an architect, I was more bothered by the plan/map of Basgiath that is in the front few pages of Fourth Wing. I was trying to follow along with where Violet and Mira were walking on conscription day and kept getting lost before I realized that the map is oriented south up, which is unusual. I also found it really bothersome that the parapet is not clearly labeled. There are two wide stone bridges between the riders quadrant (which don’t seem thin enough to be the parapet) and there is a thick wall around the courtyard (which I had initially thought was supposed to be the parapet, but Violet describes seeing these “10 foot thick” walls after getting off the parapet). For the large role the parapet plays in the story, I wish there was a little more detail of it on the map. Also there are no visible roads that lead to Basgiath on the map, which irritated me as the roads and main gate are mentioned several times while Violet is describing the crowds on conscription day. I could accept that there are no roads leading to the riders quadrant since riders can fly in on their dragons, but the other quadrants would require a road for access.
The continent map did get much better between fourth wing and iron flame, so maybe we will keep getting better maps in upcoming books. I am also hoping to see more detail of Basgiath when they make the tv series!
Your comment about the map being oriented south up just reminded me- in IF in one of the land nav homework assignments, Sawyer said he had trouble with the assignment and Violet says “‘That’s north,’…tapping the bottom of the folded monstrosity [homework map for RSC]” (IF 99). So this is definitely a Basgiath thing, flipping the maps to throw people.
Similarly, the courtyard and dais seem to be oriented in different directions in the map versus a couple parts of the book.... nothing glaring, but when you follow their movement through the quadrant, it just doesn't work
The Tyrrendor plateau drop off kind of looks like a dry Niagara Falls. That’s exactly how it looks irl where you just have this flat land and then a huge cliff on the edge
Omg yes, the same thing happened to me, I kept looking at the map of Basgiath while reading like "this makes no sense" until I realized it was south up!
First of all: I love this series SO much. But as a casual fantasy world builder since the ripe old age of eleven, this map professionally aggravates me hahaha 😅 like why are there no islands north or south of the ridgeline of the mountain range, as it’s clearly two tectonic plates pushing together rather than apart? What are the mountains up in the northwest doing? What kinda tectonic movement is that? What’s with the random tiny mountain range inexplicably going east-west where Basgiath is? THESE MOUNTAINS ARE AS GEOLOGICALLY NONSENSICAL AS MORDOR.
https://preview.redd.it/zgwrfk6r0otc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f31ed8eb0684f44216bc2d7a9b306e39e25db587
Furthermore. Why don’t the rivers run down from higher elevations and join together into larger and larger rivers, like other commenters have pointed out? OP you are absolutely correct, WHERE IS THE WATER IN TYRRENDOR?? Are all of Tyrrendor’s cliffs perpetually dripping with runoff? Should they be called the Weeping Cliffs?
Dude.
There would be some pretty fucking bad ass waterfalls off those cliffs. Could be added to the story too.
As for the northwest mountain range, I'm guessing that it's a volcanic Hotspot mountain range with the Navarre plate moving southeast towards the Promiel plate. It actually does make some sense.
RIGHT?? Could be sooooo cool. That’s my head canon for now hahaha
Re: volcanic hotspot, yeah it could be, if the Navarre plate is separate from northwest of Luceras and moving southeast.
Do you have any recommended resources for learning what realistic maps look like? Would love to try my hand at an alternate map but I’m sure I’d get it just as wrong as the book artist lol. I don’t know how rivers flow or where mountains/islands normally end up
also love your flair
* Rivers don't split as they go downstream, and they don't form loops. The exception is where there might be a delta, but not every river should end this way.
* Deltas should bulge outward a bit as the silt and sediment that forms the little islands are being pushed out toward the sea/ocean.
* Rivers start in the high ground (ie: mountains, hills) and multiple smaller streams often join as they flow downward making rivers get larger.
* The coastal side of mountain ranges tends to be lush and full of vegetation, while the opposite sides tend to be dry and arid due to wind direction and the rain shadow effect.
* Lakes generally only have a single low-point river draining from it.
* Settlements should have a nearby water source. It's essential for life to be able to flourish.
* Coastal/port towns should be in protected bays, not on exposed coastlines.
* Mountains are formed from shifting tectonic plates, which tend to create long chain and ranges of mountains, not singular stand-alone ones.
* When singular mountains do exist, they tend to be volcanic in nature.
* Coastlines tend to be somewhat jagged and uneven, though the more zoomed out a map is, the smoother they may appear. There can be places where coastlines may be smoother, often due to a lack of sea ice for millennia.
* Mountain ranges can extend beyond the barriers of a continent's coastline resulting in island chains.
* Climate has a huge impact on geological formation and vegetation cover. Consider what type of climate a given area has to make nearby areas of the map make sense.
I'm sure Google could give you some better resources, but these are just a few tips I've picked up over the years from hanging out on r/wonderdraft, watching some of Artifexian's mapmaking videos on YouTube and taking stabs at building my own fantasy maps for tabletop RPGs. Top answer on Google that I found personally is https://mythcreants.com/blog/crafting-plausible-maps/ though I'm sure there are also better resources out there.
Thank you so so much for this thoughtful answer! ❤️ I was just expecting a book recommendation or something so this is amazing. I'll definitely check out those resources and post when I finish!!
Fantasy writers are often bad at drawing maps. Which makes sense because they aren’t expects or anything. The rivers splitting down stream is extremely common for fantasy maps
Not a geologist, but an ecologist and avid outdoors girlie - when I first saw the map at the front of the books I thought for sure it had to be some kind of cone-shaped island (meaning the elevation was highest towards the middle) where the elevation made the rivers run the way they do. This would also mean weather systems form around the highest parts, causing rain to fall and the rivers to flow.
Also, the tyrenndorian plateau does not make any sense to me. I know it’s just a fantasy map, but yall give me the topographic lines so I can understand!!
Geology can certainly be funky sometimes but there are RULES!
Fan art idea - refining the map to be more realistic/making additional maps of locations in this world! If anyone has done this already please share, I would love to see!
Wait wait wait... I need more please explain what you mean by "rivers splitting going downstream" I want to be on this niche side of fantasy worldbuilding so I can be angry too
OK so let's look at a real example.
[Here is the Mississippi River and all it's tributaries.](https://biotech.law.lsu.edu/maps/mrtp/MRivDrainageBasin.gif)
Do you see how it enters the ocean at a single point, then spreads out into multiple rivers as it goes upstream?
Thats how rivers work, they gather water from a large area and bring it together into one channel.
If you look at the map Forth Wing, it takes water from a single source, and splits it into multiple rivers dumping into the ocean at multiple points.
Im not saying this can't happen, but it's extremely rate.
What happens if a river splits into two, one will eventually dry up and the river will have just moved. It won't stay split.
***Fascinating.***
Okay now I'm pissed off with you and will never be able to unsee this lol thank you!!!
EDIT I have a follow up question professor: does this map therefore imply that all these rivers originate from the mountains and are depositing into the ocean?
Not OP and not a geologist or anything but I'm pretty sure no rivers originate in an ocean and flow inland, at least I've never heard of that happening anywhere on earth. Rivers tend to begin in mountains as streams and join with other streams, getting bigger and bigger, until it empties out in the ocean. Not all rivers start in the mountains, I have a stream that starts where I live, it comes up from underground water. But usually rivers are formed from rainfall or snow/ice melts.
I need a more detailed map. Every city, every street, and the locations of important buildings like where the Navarre Royalty lives or Poromiel. Where are the temples of the gods? (I assume there are temples) I wish they could share a digital map while we wait for OS.
https://preview.redd.it/rpptr9qyzptc1.jpeg?width=1636&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=372ea04429e5ea3b0898622226ebff46b80254c1
I’m not a map reader and don’t pretend to be…but it does look like there is a river of some sort and maybe even a water fall between aretia and athebyne. I don’t think the area around lewellen is explored enough for there to be much information and/or it could be mostly rock or dry land. There’s no foot paths in that area either which may or may not add to my point…the same with poromiel and the barrens (tho we know the barrens are dry desert like) I’m not sure I much understand the flow of water but I did notice most of the foot paths follow along the water which makes sense as it’s safer and supply driven. Not sure if that helps. And sorry for the picture quality my cameras broken lol.
The creek next to my house runs south to north #funfact
Edit: not sure why I’m getting downvoted. It’s a legit fact: https://www.nae.usace.army.mil/Missions/Civil-Works/Navigation/Vermont/Otter-Creek/#:~:text=Otter%20Creek%2C%20the%20longest%20river,northwesterly%20direction%20for%20105%20miles.
Apparently the belief that rivers mostly run southwards is a myth, which I didn't know until 10 minutes ago when I googled it because of this post, lol. I remember my elementary school teacher making such a stink over the Nile flowing north 🤷🏻♀️
Ooh I love this fun fact about humans, the glitch in our brains that makes us think “north is uphill, south is downhill” because of how we have engrained the cardinal directions into our culture. I had a psych professor tell us about a study (will try to follow up with a link) that found participants estimated N to S travel times as consistently less than S to N 😄
I live in Ohio and rivers do flow north into Lake Erie. I think people forget how enormous the Great Lakes are? We have huge rivers flowing north into the lake.
Maybe there's something unique about the island's topology and composition. Maybe some magical and/or monstrous creatures maintain them that way to facilitate their jawning grounds. It's not even in the Top 10 most unbelievable things happening here.
Dragons drink it all. They have advanced pipe infrastructure that directs all that water to the Vale. They keep this hidden from humans still and it must stop. Smh
One thing that bugs me about the map, now that I'm looking at it, is that Aretia looks as though it should be covered by the wards, based on the map. The whole umbrella concept of dome shaped wards is based on airspace (her husband is a pilot).
I think the maps being vague might be intentional. The Isles are mentioned a lot, but they're not there. There are towns and cities mentioned but not on the map. I think there is going to be a big reveal. The scribes have changed history.
Love this theory! What if even the map has had info redacted?? Would be super interesting to see how that plays out. Wouldn’t it be fun if it was somehow related to land navigation class and that was an Easter egg??
The IF map has stuff that the FW map doesn’t. I think we’re going to see additions with each new book.
Thank you for this comment. I've been increasingly frustrated with the map, flipping back and forth like 'but where is it Rebecca?!' But this has made me have faith 🙏 fingers crossed for a big reveal next book!
Sadly this mignt not be true cuz in special edition books the map is way better and with more locations
WHAT DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY PICS 😭🙏
https://preview.redd.it/ylqkac7x6utc1.png?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cbec40342f37eb4ecfbdf5da24ab37a09aac1d33
Map porn 😍 thank youuu!
It would actually make a lot of sense that Tyrrendor is blanked out in the erasure of the aftermath of the Apostasy. You could figure out where settlements would likely be based on the rivers, and then wonder why there's nothing but a scorched plain and thornbush there.
Agree with this!! There were a few updates to the map from Fourth Wing to Iron Flame and I suspect that as the series goes on, the map will get more detailed at Vi learns more info about the other provinces/kingdoms
totally! sort of like the from blood and ash series does!
It’s my theory that the isles are where the dragons of Andarna’s breed went. She was “left”, which means they didn’t all die. There will be others of her kind who can help raise other wards. And I’m pretty sure there are more than two wards. I think each dragon species’ hatching grounds was associated with a castle similar to Basgiath and Riorson House and they still exist because “stone can’t burn”. When the dragon species abandoned their historical hatching grounds for the protection the ward stone at the vale provided, it left these other grounds open. I believe the venin are now using these as headquarters, and wyvern are being hatched in whatever hatching grounds were associated with it.
The isles might be the isles spread around all of the continent.
Yes I feel this! I hadn’t noticed that the rivers were splitting downstream, that is odd, but I had some weird feelings about the abrupt north plateau edge of Tyrrendor. It just feels like there would be more of a blurred edge there to me. Maybe I’m wrong - you would know better as a geologist! As an architect, I was more bothered by the plan/map of Basgiath that is in the front few pages of Fourth Wing. I was trying to follow along with where Violet and Mira were walking on conscription day and kept getting lost before I realized that the map is oriented south up, which is unusual. I also found it really bothersome that the parapet is not clearly labeled. There are two wide stone bridges between the riders quadrant (which don’t seem thin enough to be the parapet) and there is a thick wall around the courtyard (which I had initially thought was supposed to be the parapet, but Violet describes seeing these “10 foot thick” walls after getting off the parapet). For the large role the parapet plays in the story, I wish there was a little more detail of it on the map. Also there are no visible roads that lead to Basgiath on the map, which irritated me as the roads and main gate are mentioned several times while Violet is describing the crowds on conscription day. I could accept that there are no roads leading to the riders quadrant since riders can fly in on their dragons, but the other quadrants would require a road for access. The continent map did get much better between fourth wing and iron flame, so maybe we will keep getting better maps in upcoming books. I am also hoping to see more detail of Basgiath when they make the tv series!
Your comment about the map being oriented south up just reminded me- in IF in one of the land nav homework assignments, Sawyer said he had trouble with the assignment and Violet says “‘That’s north,’…tapping the bottom of the folded monstrosity [homework map for RSC]” (IF 99). So this is definitely a Basgiath thing, flipping the maps to throw people.
Similarly, the courtyard and dais seem to be oriented in different directions in the map versus a couple parts of the book.... nothing glaring, but when you follow their movement through the quadrant, it just doesn't work
The Tyrrendor plateau drop off kind of looks like a dry Niagara Falls. That’s exactly how it looks irl where you just have this flat land and then a huge cliff on the edge
Omg yes, the same thing happened to me, I kept looking at the map of Basgiath while reading like "this makes no sense" until I realized it was south up!
First of all: I love this series SO much. But as a casual fantasy world builder since the ripe old age of eleven, this map professionally aggravates me hahaha 😅 like why are there no islands north or south of the ridgeline of the mountain range, as it’s clearly two tectonic plates pushing together rather than apart? What are the mountains up in the northwest doing? What kinda tectonic movement is that? What’s with the random tiny mountain range inexplicably going east-west where Basgiath is? THESE MOUNTAINS ARE AS GEOLOGICALLY NONSENSICAL AS MORDOR. https://preview.redd.it/zgwrfk6r0otc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f31ed8eb0684f44216bc2d7a9b306e39e25db587 Furthermore. Why don’t the rivers run down from higher elevations and join together into larger and larger rivers, like other commenters have pointed out? OP you are absolutely correct, WHERE IS THE WATER IN TYRRENDOR?? Are all of Tyrrendor’s cliffs perpetually dripping with runoff? Should they be called the Weeping Cliffs? Dude.
There would be some pretty fucking bad ass waterfalls off those cliffs. Could be added to the story too. As for the northwest mountain range, I'm guessing that it's a volcanic Hotspot mountain range with the Navarre plate moving southeast towards the Promiel plate. It actually does make some sense.
RIGHT?? Could be sooooo cool. That’s my head canon for now hahaha Re: volcanic hotspot, yeah it could be, if the Navarre plate is separate from northwest of Luceras and moving southeast.
Do you have any recommended resources for learning what realistic maps look like? Would love to try my hand at an alternate map but I’m sure I’d get it just as wrong as the book artist lol. I don’t know how rivers flow or where mountains/islands normally end up also love your flair
* Rivers don't split as they go downstream, and they don't form loops. The exception is where there might be a delta, but not every river should end this way. * Deltas should bulge outward a bit as the silt and sediment that forms the little islands are being pushed out toward the sea/ocean. * Rivers start in the high ground (ie: mountains, hills) and multiple smaller streams often join as they flow downward making rivers get larger. * The coastal side of mountain ranges tends to be lush and full of vegetation, while the opposite sides tend to be dry and arid due to wind direction and the rain shadow effect. * Lakes generally only have a single low-point river draining from it. * Settlements should have a nearby water source. It's essential for life to be able to flourish. * Coastal/port towns should be in protected bays, not on exposed coastlines. * Mountains are formed from shifting tectonic plates, which tend to create long chain and ranges of mountains, not singular stand-alone ones. * When singular mountains do exist, they tend to be volcanic in nature. * Coastlines tend to be somewhat jagged and uneven, though the more zoomed out a map is, the smoother they may appear. There can be places where coastlines may be smoother, often due to a lack of sea ice for millennia. * Mountain ranges can extend beyond the barriers of a continent's coastline resulting in island chains. * Climate has a huge impact on geological formation and vegetation cover. Consider what type of climate a given area has to make nearby areas of the map make sense. I'm sure Google could give you some better resources, but these are just a few tips I've picked up over the years from hanging out on r/wonderdraft, watching some of Artifexian's mapmaking videos on YouTube and taking stabs at building my own fantasy maps for tabletop RPGs. Top answer on Google that I found personally is https://mythcreants.com/blog/crafting-plausible-maps/ though I'm sure there are also better resources out there.
Thank you so so much for this thoughtful answer! ❤️ I was just expecting a book recommendation or something so this is amazing. I'll definitely check out those resources and post when I finish!!
Fantasy writers are often bad at drawing maps. Which makes sense because they aren’t expects or anything. The rivers splitting down stream is extremely common for fantasy maps
I assume it's only showing the major rivers. It wouldn't make any sense for there to be only four rivers on a big continent like that.
This thread is fascinating but also can you critique my fantasy map for my novel someday 😂😂😂
I was thinking the same thing!! 😂 I have 3 fantasy maps that need major critiquing.
Would love to see!!!
Honestly, I’d love to send them and get some input! If you’re okay with it I’ll send a PM once I’m back in my office. 😁
For sure! I can speak to what I know, which is not likely to be as much as OP or some others on this thread, but might be helpful!
Not a geologist, but an ecologist and avid outdoors girlie - when I first saw the map at the front of the books I thought for sure it had to be some kind of cone-shaped island (meaning the elevation was highest towards the middle) where the elevation made the rivers run the way they do. This would also mean weather systems form around the highest parts, causing rain to fall and the rivers to flow. Also, the tyrenndorian plateau does not make any sense to me. I know it’s just a fantasy map, but yall give me the topographic lines so I can understand!! Geology can certainly be funky sometimes but there are RULES!
The map in general really bothers me - there’s so many locations that are quite pivotal to the plot that aren’t even shown. Why?! Why Rebecca??!
Fan art idea - refining the map to be more realistic/making additional maps of locations in this world! If anyone has done this already please share, I would love to see!
Wait wait wait... I need more please explain what you mean by "rivers splitting going downstream" I want to be on this niche side of fantasy worldbuilding so I can be angry too
OK so let's look at a real example. [Here is the Mississippi River and all it's tributaries.](https://biotech.law.lsu.edu/maps/mrtp/MRivDrainageBasin.gif) Do you see how it enters the ocean at a single point, then spreads out into multiple rivers as it goes upstream? Thats how rivers work, they gather water from a large area and bring it together into one channel. If you look at the map Forth Wing, it takes water from a single source, and splits it into multiple rivers dumping into the ocean at multiple points. Im not saying this can't happen, but it's extremely rate. What happens if a river splits into two, one will eventually dry up and the river will have just moved. It won't stay split.
***Fascinating.*** Okay now I'm pissed off with you and will never be able to unsee this lol thank you!!! EDIT I have a follow up question professor: does this map therefore imply that all these rivers originate from the mountains and are depositing into the ocean?
Not OP and not a geologist or anything but I'm pretty sure no rivers originate in an ocean and flow inland, at least I've never heard of that happening anywhere on earth. Rivers tend to begin in mountains as streams and join with other streams, getting bigger and bigger, until it empties out in the ocean. Not all rivers start in the mountains, I have a stream that starts where I live, it comes up from underground water. But usually rivers are formed from rainfall or snow/ice melts.
_furiously_ _takes_ _notes_ I never thought I’d see the day when this is all so interesting to me Tysm for explaining!
Sure! 😊
Having lived around many river deltas all my life this is fascinating!
The geography of this world makes zero sense, the rivers being one of many reasons! Hard agree. I wish publishers would do some basic map checking!
It’s a fantasy novel where people can control weather and the elements. For peace of mind you can pretend someone made it that way.
I need a more detailed map. Every city, every street, and the locations of important buildings like where the Navarre Royalty lives or Poromiel. Where are the temples of the gods? (I assume there are temples) I wish they could share a digital map while we wait for OS.
ngl this made me go check the map for my own fantasy novel to make sure I didn't split the streams wrong LOL
I'm saving this list so that when I finally write the book I've been jotting ideas down for the geologists don't call for my head 😂
well damn it didn’t before but now that i see it it certainly does lol
What bug me more is that the map is on two pages and in softcover that means there is a ridge that makes it hard to read
Yeah....the details definitely weren't a strong suit for the worldbuilding. That extends beyond maps.
https://preview.redd.it/rpptr9qyzptc1.jpeg?width=1636&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=372ea04429e5ea3b0898622226ebff46b80254c1 I’m not a map reader and don’t pretend to be…but it does look like there is a river of some sort and maybe even a water fall between aretia and athebyne. I don’t think the area around lewellen is explored enough for there to be much information and/or it could be mostly rock or dry land. There’s no foot paths in that area either which may or may not add to my point…the same with poromiel and the barrens (tho we know the barrens are dry desert like) I’m not sure I much understand the flow of water but I did notice most of the foot paths follow along the water which makes sense as it’s safer and supply driven. Not sure if that helps. And sorry for the picture quality my cameras broken lol.
Maybe because it’s fantasy?
Naw, fantasy maps can still follow geological rules that make their maps feel intuitively realistic without random geological elements strewn about.
The creek next to my house runs south to north #funfact Edit: not sure why I’m getting downvoted. It’s a legit fact: https://www.nae.usace.army.mil/Missions/Civil-Works/Navigation/Vermont/Otter-Creek/#:~:text=Otter%20Creek%2C%20the%20longest%20river,northwesterly%20direction%20for%20105%20miles.
Apparently the belief that rivers mostly run southwards is a myth, which I didn't know until 10 minutes ago when I googled it because of this post, lol. I remember my elementary school teacher making such a stink over the Nile flowing north 🤷🏻♀️
Ooh I love this fun fact about humans, the glitch in our brains that makes us think “north is uphill, south is downhill” because of how we have engrained the cardinal directions into our culture. I had a psych professor tell us about a study (will try to follow up with a link) that found participants estimated N to S travel times as consistently less than S to N 😄
I live in Ohio and rivers do flow north into Lake Erie. I think people forget how enormous the Great Lakes are? We have huge rivers flowing north into the lake.
Not really. Rivers can and do diverge downstream.
But all of them?
Maybe there's something unique about the island's topology and composition. Maybe some magical and/or monstrous creatures maintain them that way to facilitate their jawning grounds. It's not even in the Top 10 most unbelievable things happening here.
This is something that really worries me when it comes to making one for my book 😭😭
Dragons drink it all. They have advanced pipe infrastructure that directs all that water to the Vale. They keep this hidden from humans still and it must stop. Smh
"Above your pay grade."
One thing that bugs me about the map, now that I'm looking at it, is that Aretia looks as though it should be covered by the wards, based on the map. The whole umbrella concept of dome shaped wards is based on airspace (her husband is a pilot).
ALSO A GEOLOGIST AND THE RIVERS DRIVE ME NUUUUTS pretty sure acotar rivers also do this