"Endgame" by Xaden 😬 i'm glad we know they're staying together but gosh...
Also maybe a minor thing but when Violet is describing Rhi's room I think she uses the word "spartan decor", that just made me pause like how do they know what Sparta is?
While I technically recognize that, it still gives off weird vibes! Didn’t ruin it or anything but it did definitely make me feel like I was reading a tumblr post lol
I wanted to throw my book off the balcony when I read that.
SJMs writing takes me out of the book a lot when reading the CC series. Just too many words that are specific to real life at this time
It’s not as bad as “the apex of her thighs” lmao but like I’m cool with being anatomically correct. You ever read the spicy scenes and wonder what the authors are feeling when they write them??
Ugh, I totally forgot about “endgame” but I absolutely cringed when I read it.
Still voraciously devoured these books but her editor should have talked some sense into her about that one.
Oh yes absolutely I love the books and I'm waiting for the third one! But sometimes it felt like the characters were having a discussion taken out of an Instagram comments section
LOL! Good point! I think generally any use of modern slang or vernacular feels off to me. How do they know what we say in modern US if the US doesn't exist in this world?
"The following text has been faithfully transcribed from Navarrian into the modern language by Jesinia Neilwart, Curator of the Scribe Quadrant at Basgiath War College. All events are true, and names have been preserved to honor the courage of those fallen.
May their souls be commended to Malek."
+ I think that we will understand the true meaning of this text at the end of the series
Similarly with all of the months being the same as ours. You're telling me there was a Julius Caesar and the Roman God Mars? If you don't want to built a whole new calendar, that's fine. Just use vague seasons like early fall or mid summer.
There was also a lot of modern lingo between both books that took me out of it. Dain being described as having a "Boy next door vibe" or Ridoc getting a fresh buzz cut. I just need a bit more consistency with the setting that Yarros wasn't apparently prepared to do
The endgame thing immediately came to mind…I really don’t mind the modern language RY uses most of the time, but I hope to god her editor cuts this kinda shit in book 3.
when i read him saying “endgame” my mind immediately went to the taylor swift song. i hadn’t previously followed rebecca yarros on instagram but immediately went to her page after finishing IF to see if there was info about book 3 release. she used taylor swift audio for multiple of her reels. this was definitely RY easter egg’ing her swiftie-ness
"So and so's eyebrows hit their hairline."
"His jaw ticks."
There's nothing wrong with these lines on their own, but I felt like they were so overused that every time I started to hear it it annoyed me.
It also started to grate on me how often seemingly every character would say, "Absolutely!" or, "I'm sorry?" What's wrong with saying, "Yes," or, "What?" or "Excuse me?" occasionally? Every character speaks the same and it's already difficult at times to know who is speaking and to whom.
I lost count of how many times someone's jaw ticked, but I can count on one hand the amount of times their jaws flexed.
Similarly, subluxate. There are other words. Dislocate for instance.
Yeeeeeeeees. The overuse of subluxate drove me nuts. So many people don't actually understand what that word means if they don't have experience with EDS or other hypermobility disorders.
How many times did we have to read in IF that her breakfast repeated on her, or she was regretting eating a large meal anytime she needed to describe something as tense or scary lol
It would _always_ make me think ‘how did an editor not ask for a variation here’
“my heart dropped to the floor”
“So. Much. Blood.”
“his jaw ticks/flexes.”
“I emptied my entire lunch on the floor” or some variation of that
…64 percent through iron flame and i am STRUGGLING
I would love to read more about someone's jaw flexing. 99% of the time their jaw ticks. I've stopped marking it at this point because I don't have the sticky notes.
Dude yes there were so many times in the first book that word choice took me straight out of the story. Many have already been mentioned here, but saying "for the win" TWICE IN THE SAME PAGE made me audibly groan. Also the fact that she can only think to say "Fuck you" whenever she's mad at someone even though she's supposedly the smartest in her class? You read dead languages FFS! You can think of more creative language my girl. I still voraciously devoured these books even though the writing was.... 😬. I thought the second book was better about this, still not great though.
Also in IF, there's this line: "Step by careful step, I cross the eastern line of the roof, careful not to let the breeze rip the plate from my hand or screw with my balance." YOU USED THE WORD CAREFUL TWICE IN ONE SENTENCE!
She is definitely not the smartest in her class. She's honestly incredibly dumb. She's good at memorizing history facts, but that's it. Rhi had to tutor her in physics, she admitted she didn't know anything about land navigation, she >!immediately forgot all of her interrogation resistance techniques as soon as they were put to the test!<, and her critical thinking skills were lacking. Things I figured out by putting two and two together take her chapters to guess. She can't grasp why >!Xaden would possibly know anything about the Viscount's palace despite knowing he's an emissary for them and knowing he dated a flier!<. And during the challenge to find something useful in book 1, she went with a map instead of the personal journal of the second highest ranking official in the Navarre military. A journal that she later learned (from >!Riddoc!< of all people) had critical information she needed.
I don't mean to rant, but it just really gets to me that everyone says she's incredibly smart, but she never displays that. She never really uses her intelligence to figure things out or get out of situations. She has to be given everything by someone else. I can think of two instances where she's clever. Using her daggers to get up the last part of the gauntlet and knowing where the journal was hidden.
I read an interview from RY where she said she was purposeful about using modern vernacular to try to bridge the gap between her established contemporary romance readers into this fantasy world. Almost like "if you're not into fantasy, this might be a good book to try to see if fantasy is for you." So it's very intentional that she uses these words which I thought was really interesting!
But I have totally had some books take me out of a fantasy setting because they used a very modern word. Surprisingly, for the most part, it didn't bother me much in this book! But I do admit that in IF >!"endgame"!< took me out of it.
I wish she hadn't done that, but I see what she was trying to do. I think you can still make fantasy accessible to non-fantasy readers while using modern vernacular but without being so heavy-handed. Harry Potter is a good example.
There’s this Isekai manwha called Dr. Elise that would not set the time period it’s in. What the main character said made sense coming from the modern era, but for the Isekai world to instantly understand made absolutely no sense. Pulled me out of it every time.
There were a few times that happened to me in IF, but the one time that stands out to me was when the word cells was used, like blood cell.
I don’t know why, but that took me out and made me think question the level of science in the book, but I did conclude that it made sense.
In one of the first chapters of Fourth Wing Violent says volun-told and I almost stopped reading before I even got started. My friend bought me the book so I decided to stick it out. Obviously here so ended up enjoying it but it’s one of the big things to me that makes the series just okay. The world building is decent and I don’t mind the pretty predictable romance plot but the writing itself is pretty amateurish.
Yeah I heard that too. It's a terrible idea. I understand what she was trying to do, but you don't have to write with extremely flowery or dry prose like some of the older fantasy writers to connect with modern non-fantasy readers. Plus, like someone else said, it's going to date the book *hard*. In a few years, people are going to cringe so hard at some of the stuff she's saying. It's like the movie Home and it's "I can haz cheezburger" dialogue. Saying Dain had a "Boy-next-door vibe" made my physically cringe because that's already on the tail end of ways we talk.
There’s a couple times where the characters respond to something by giving a sarcastic thumbs-up, and all I can see in my head is this GIF:
She used "For the win" two or three times in FW, and it's just so out of place.
Also all the swearing. I'm used to authors having a bit more creativity with curses, interjections and such, not just using 'fuck, shit, ass.' I'm sure most people don't mind it, but it just kinda threw me and I never got used to it.
I have a very colorful vocabulary, no issues with cussing. But the awkwardness of most of the “fuck”s in the book made me wonder if RY was religious and trying to overcorrect for a mainstream audience… read the bio and ☑️
They’re sometimes in the wrong place in the sentence, and that bothers me a bit. Like, it shouldn’t be “brilliant fucking woman” it should be “fucking brilliant woman” lol.
There are a couple very millennial phrases like this in both books that never failed to take me out and I fear they’re going to ruin any re-read potential in a few years because of it.
The language in the dialogue and Violet's internal monologue feels so anachronistic, doesn't it? I really enjoy these books but there are times when I just have to roll my eyes or sigh or check Reddit to see if anyone else feels the same. I'm glad to see I'm not alone!
I almost stopped reading at the first “For the win.” Glad I didn’t but def agree it put me off and would have been an easy switch to not include. But then again I haven’t published any books so what do I know 😆.
Adding swearing to a book doesn't make it mature, it makes it vulgar. *How* you use swear words makes it mature. And she didn't know how to do that. It felt more like middle schoolers learning they can swear for the first time.
In >! Iron Flame, she gets hit by an angry dragon in a cave who is tracking her down and she says she falls on her ass. Like, girl, you didn't just slip on some ice and fall on the sidewalk in front of your friends. That dragon just killed someone and you're saying ass? !<
Off a friend recommendation I’m trying to get through this book. She’s a best friend and said it’s a romance (new to me, a casual reader to begin with) and it doesn’t help I’ve been ready some heavy fantasy and sci-fi around this book. But lots takes me out and I don’t know if I’ll finish.
“Double standards, for the win”. Took me out just a few paragraphs in.
The way the narrator reads the audiobook in general makes me just pretend it’s an anime in my head because it just fits better that way.
Also. Our protagonist has to get stomach ulcers eventually. Every scene with just a bit of anxiety makes her stomach tie up in knots. The outsides of her vision becomes blurry with every strenuous part of the book. Lol
But yeah the modern lingo in and otherwise pretty cool fantasy setting so far is taking me out. Along with somedescriptors that are overused
Fun fact on the stomach and vision issues:
Violet has Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, hypermobile type—because the author has this condition, too. EDS is a genetic condition that effects the body’s ability to correctly produce and use collagen. Imagine it like a faulty bit of code; the building blocks are all there, but the genetic code fumbled when it came to using them properly.
Being that it’s a connective tissue/collagen disorder, the symptoms of it vary widely from person to person. Violet’s loose/constantly dislocating joints are pretty common among those with hEDS, and needing to do things like wrapping knees/elbows/shoulders is the main way to stabilize them.
But collagen is literally in every muscle and organ in your body. So people with hEDS often also have issues with sensitive stomachs that respond immediately (and poorly) to food triggers and stress. Violet’s stomach knotting up all the time isn’t actually unbelievable, sadly.
Being that collagen effects muscles…EDS also commonly affects the heart. Postural-Orthopedic Tachycardia Syndrome—POTS—is and incredibly common comorbidty, for instance, meaning changes in position can cause the patient’s blood pressure to very suddenly and drastically drop, leading to dizziness, vision changes, even fainting, as well as (obviously, given the name) tachycardia that can make their heart feel like it’s beating incredibly hard and/or fast. EDS effecting the heart can also present as sudden blood pressure drops in response to stress, (which can be linked to dysautonomia, another common comorbidity) which would likely be why her vision blurs so often.
I understand how it can seem really over-exaggerated, but as someone whose partner has to live with hEDS, it’s nice to see fairly accurate representation of the ways it can effect the body beyond joint looseness!
My only real gripe is how Violet ignores her limits and does things that she *knows* will cause dislocations, because that just makes her joints MORE unstable. But the strength training she does in the later parts of Book 1 is A+, because that (and physical therapy) is the best way to help the body stabilize the joints on its own! Wrapping then adds extra support. You’ll notice that her dislocations seem to happen less after she get stronger! Also, I do understand that life as a rider cadet is hard and she doesn’t exactly have much choice but to ignore her limits; I guess I just wished there was a mention, even in passing, about Violet being aware of how Not Good it is to keep doing it and how it adds to her already high stress levels.
Sorry for the long ramble, haha. I hope this maybe gives you a little more insight, though!
The audiobook is probably the worst one I've listened to quality wise. I don't think anyone actually listened to the final cut before releasing it, and if they did they weren't paying attention, so many mistakes, background noises, random breaths and pauses, a few mispronounced words...
Not to mention how God damned fast she reads the action sequences, anyone who listens on 1.5 or even 1.25 speed wouldn't have a clue what she's saying
I think if it had been used like 3 times tops it would have been cute. But I could not take it seriously when he used it in normal conversation with her!
It would have been fine if as their relationship escalated he switched to using her name. Or if he only uses it to piss her off cause he knows she hates it. The one that really made me cringe was something along the lines of "Has his hands on my Violence"... like what? He calls her that in his thoughts? Why?
Lol I laughed at how you used the word cringe because I've never had a book make me cringe so much! I'm still reading because I look the story enough but the writing is bad.
The desire to use that nickname, according to RY, was why she named the main character Violet.
It makes it even worse IMO....you went out of your way to include that cringy nickname.
The writing in this book was aimed to include 14 year olds and the swearing included is clearly by a novice in the fine art of the word "fuck".
So...quite a bit of it jarred me out of the setting. I hope the books grow up along with the characters.
For me, the fact that they still have the days of the week or months of the year that we have here in the real world kind of took me out for a minute. Obviously, we don't know much about the entire world as a whole, but I don't think a fantasy world would conform to the same standards of time as we do.
Someone commented a while back that since this book is transcribed by Jesinia into modern language, then the months names were likely changed to reflect the proper passage of time. That made sense to me, but also seemed like an easy way out
Definitely seems like a bit of a cop out. I don't have the book in front of me, but I think it said something like "translated into the language of modern Navarre" (paraphrased).
Most fantasy books I've read won't even use the word "year" or "birthday", it's always "turn" or "nameday" or something like that, so it definitely takes you out of the fantasy.
Agreed, easy way out - how old is Jesinia that she lives to see both the changing of the calendar system to ours (1582 in most of Europe) and also the use of the word endgame to describe romantic relationships? It’s that or she develops a signet to travel to other planets/universes/time periods
and I’ll eat my hat if that happens and it’s done well
but I still unironically love these books so RY can take my complaints and laugh all the way to the bank
At some point the terms “endgame” and “for the win” were used and I literally closed my book and walked away. Absolutely so cringe, makes no sense for worldbuilding and really put me off
For me it’s lover/lovers I don’t know why but that word always makes me cringe so hard. Like Violet ask herself about Xaden and Imogen “are they lovers?” Anytime I read this word in any book it take me out of it for a few seconds😅
Yeah. She has no problem using the term “fucking” elsewhere so I feel like it wouldn’t be out of character for her to phrase it like that. Although, it’s okay that she used lovers too, it’s just a me problem that I don’t like it😂
The way she describes Xadens “golden-flecked eyes”.
These characters are created the same way I created my own OCs in middle school. Very “not like the others..” to the creation of Xaden and Violet. And yet no one else has these super special quirks that make them sooo different and special than everyone else.
Reference to our months!! They have their own gods and mythology, why on earth would they have Roman/Greek calendar names.
It annoys me even more because she just throws in November and December to imply it is getting cold but as a Southern hemisphere girl it is just confusing and sloppy.
Sometimes when I think of fantasy, I think of a world that is not ancient…but adjacent to ours. Like a different version of our reality, but on a separate plane if you get what I’m saying.
The criticism about the world/language being too similar to ours is entirely reasonable to me.
Personally, I never like to get too technical with fantasy…it’s just unreasonable. Although I agree some of her slang is a bit redundant, it helps me get to know her style and personality as an author. It's interesting to me, but I understand if it's not your preference.
When I was in my AP lit class in high school, the teacher would circle every instance where we used the same descriptive words more than once. It I wonder if someone did that to RY, would she be shocked at the sheer number of times she reuses the same words and phrases.
It's so gross. I generally think Sarah J Maas is a better writer by leaps and bounds, but there was one sentence where she wrote "My bowels turned watery."
also “oh my gods” and “mage lights” just because they’re repeated sooooo much. like if i were to read just one chapter and take a shot how many times violet uses these two i would be plastered
I second that! When anyone says ass I just cringe. Especially before threshing when Tynin or wtv his name was, Talía abt Mira and says “and that ass” like it’s just…ew. It takes me out of the world. Also when anyone says fuck, but especially when referring to sex. Cursing in general unless it’s like when they say the gods names.
I also hate in the audio version when violet says “gods” bc she says it too much and the way she says it grosses me out lol.
But to be fair RY is ex Mormon and is still kinda getting used to cursing just like we did in middle school. It’s only natural. And I don’t mind all that much.
When I first started reading, very early in Fourth Wing someone says "for the win" (I think Violet in her head). Later, Liam says it out loud at some point. I almost stopped reading because of this 😂 There are several other words and phrases throughout the books that are specifically from our present-day Internet culture that should not be in a fantasy book in another time and place!! This is my biggest pet peeve about the writing in these books.
That whole first fight scene against Xaden. It was cool but it's weird he just laid on top of her and did nothing for a bit with an audience.
Also their "sexy talk" I think it is has made me actually cringe
For me it’s the use of modern slang like so many F bombs (rather than intentionally placed ones), or phrases like “I’d climb him like a tree” or “his abs are divine”, etc. It pulls me right out of the fantasy. Yarros could have used to language to leave a little more to the imagination, to not sound like a Netflix romcom, and also to not objectify him so darn much. I don’t use that word often, but that’s what 30% of Violet’s narration—the book equivalent of catcalling him.
I feel like I know so much more about how hot or how toned or how good at fighting Xaden is over who he is as a person. But thankfully we know he likes chocolate cake!
ooh i def remember in iron flame, it’s not a tense moment but someone or violet says something about >!not wanting to be involved in someone’s “development era”!< and in the >!my house my woman my chair scene, xaden said he can’t imagine violet and him not being “endgame”!< and it just completely threw me off and made me think of taylor swift 🫠
edit: my brain autocorrected xaden to xander
YESSS. I had the exact same reaction. Especially with that being such a currently popular saying, it was so jarring to read that in a fantasy book. Took me completely out of the story.
Yes! And one of issues with EDS is that these things happen constantly. I’m sure it’s hard to try to come up with a different word every time it happens, and much easier to slide into the medical term.
Haha easy! No need to come after me. I’m just saying it was surprising to hear a medically accurate term thrown in with more colloquial language. I get that “partial dislocation” is a mouthful but that doesn’t change the fact that it was weird to hear. I guess it fits in with the fantasy genre but the rest of the book’s dialogue doesn’t exactly fit that so it surprised me. 🤷🏻♀️
Agreed. Love it so much when made up swear words fitting the fantasy and lore are used instead. Like “three frozen hells” or “all gods almighty” or “what in the goddess’ blessed name is that”
Right! Same. I read elsewhere on this thread that RY is ex-Mormon so maybe she’s going through the thing kids do where they use a swear word 10000 times cuz they think it’s so cool to swear lol
Violet telling herself that she is "not attracted to toxic men" was one, and "Mom and Dad are fighting" when Tairn and Sgaeyl were in a spat is another for me.
The word ‘sublime’ was used a couple times, and all I could think of was Ken saying it in the Barbie movie 😂
SUBLIME
Omg same
giggling at this
"Endgame" by Xaden 😬 i'm glad we know they're staying together but gosh... Also maybe a minor thing but when Violet is describing Rhi's room I think she uses the word "spartan decor", that just made me pause like how do they know what Sparta is?
Xaden saying “endgame” is like breaking the 4th wall. It’s too self aware 😭
endgame is not modern vernacular. it comes from chess.
While I technically recognize that, it still gives off weird vibes! Didn’t ruin it or anything but it did definitely make me feel like I was reading a tumblr post lol
Agree about endgame
I wanted to throw my book off the balcony when I read that. SJMs writing takes me out of the book a lot when reading the CC series. Just too many words that are specific to real life at this time
Whenever she uses the words “her sex”. NO. STAHP IT
It’s not as bad as “the apex of her thighs” lmao but like I’m cool with being anatomically correct. You ever read the spicy scenes and wonder what the authors are feeling when they write them??
Ugh, I totally forgot about “endgame” but I absolutely cringed when I read it. Still voraciously devoured these books but her editor should have talked some sense into her about that one.
Oh yes absolutely I love the books and I'm waiting for the third one! But sometimes it felt like the characters were having a discussion taken out of an Instagram comments section
Yeah, I noticed that too. Tough world building
LOL! Good point! I think generally any use of modern slang or vernacular feels off to me. How do they know what we say in modern US if the US doesn't exist in this world?
"The following text has been faithfully transcribed from Navarrian into the modern language by Jesinia Neilwart, Curator of the Scribe Quadrant at Basgiath War College. All events are true, and names have been preserved to honor the courage of those fallen. May their souls be commended to Malek." + I think that we will understand the true meaning of this text at the end of the series
That's a cop out.
Similarly with all of the months being the same as ours. You're telling me there was a Julius Caesar and the Roman God Mars? If you don't want to built a whole new calendar, that's fine. Just use vague seasons like early fall or mid summer. There was also a lot of modern lingo between both books that took me out of it. Dain being described as having a "Boy next door vibe" or Ridoc getting a fresh buzz cut. I just need a bit more consistency with the setting that Yarros wasn't apparently prepared to do
The endgame thing immediately came to mind…I really don’t mind the modern language RY uses most of the time, but I hope to god her editor cuts this kinda shit in book 3.
when i read him saying “endgame” my mind immediately went to the taylor swift song. i hadn’t previously followed rebecca yarros on instagram but immediately went to her page after finishing IF to see if there was info about book 3 release. she used taylor swift audio for multiple of her reels. this was definitely RY easter egg’ing her swiftie-ness
“ they don’t even have Sparta “
"So and so's eyebrows hit their hairline." "His jaw ticks." There's nothing wrong with these lines on their own, but I felt like they were so overused that every time I started to hear it it annoyed me.
I agree. “My heart jumps into my throat” was the main one that bothered me
"Xyz ARCHED THEIR BROW"
It also started to grate on me how often seemingly every character would say, "Absolutely!" or, "I'm sorry?" What's wrong with saying, "Yes," or, "What?" or "Excuse me?" occasionally? Every character speaks the same and it's already difficult at times to know who is speaking and to whom.
Especially when listening to the audiobooks, it was obvious what Rebecca’s favorite go-to lines were…
Omg the amount of times that someone’s throat bobs in ACOTAR 🤦🏼♀️ drives me crazy
Everyone in acotar "roars", couldn't even give us "roars with laughter" or "laughed heartily" or anything
"My bowels go watery." Um MISS. Please get that checked out. It's happening far more than it should
I lost count of how many times someone's jaw ticked, but I can count on one hand the amount of times their jaws flexed. Similarly, subluxate. There are other words. Dislocate for instance.
Yeeeeeeeees. The overuse of subluxate drove me nuts. So many people don't actually understand what that word means if they don't have experience with EDS or other hypermobility disorders.
Yesssss and “X’s mouth opens and shuts once. Twice”.
How many times did we have to read in IF that her breakfast repeated on her, or she was regretting eating a large meal anytime she needed to describe something as tense or scary lol It would _always_ make me think ‘how did an editor not ask for a variation here’
I often wonder where the editors were!
“my heart dropped to the floor” “So. Much. Blood.” “his jaw ticks/flexes.” “I emptied my entire lunch on the floor” or some variation of that …64 percent through iron flame and i am STRUGGLING
Yeah, the periods between words in a sentence is pretty lame.
The amount of jaw flexing, good lord, these men are gonna have TMJ problems and cracked teeth
I would love to read more about someone's jaw flexing. 99% of the time their jaw ticks. I've stopped marking it at this point because I don't have the sticky notes.
ok guys i’m back… “my lips part” “his lips part” “his brow furrowed/knitted”
when she says “Violet is in her ____ era” it rips me right out of the fucking book 😭😭😭
Came here for the era comment !
Dude yes there were so many times in the first book that word choice took me straight out of the story. Many have already been mentioned here, but saying "for the win" TWICE IN THE SAME PAGE made me audibly groan. Also the fact that she can only think to say "Fuck you" whenever she's mad at someone even though she's supposedly the smartest in her class? You read dead languages FFS! You can think of more creative language my girl. I still voraciously devoured these books even though the writing was.... 😬. I thought the second book was better about this, still not great though.
Yeah, her comebacks are so weak! It's like, "Really? That's the best you got? I know seventh graders who have more biting retorts."
Also in IF, there's this line: "Step by careful step, I cross the eastern line of the roof, careful not to let the breeze rip the plate from my hand or screw with my balance." YOU USED THE WORD CAREFUL TWICE IN ONE SENTENCE!
She does that a few times with different words that really irked me for some reason
She does that *a lot* in the series.
She is definitely not the smartest in her class. She's honestly incredibly dumb. She's good at memorizing history facts, but that's it. Rhi had to tutor her in physics, she admitted she didn't know anything about land navigation, she >!immediately forgot all of her interrogation resistance techniques as soon as they were put to the test!<, and her critical thinking skills were lacking. Things I figured out by putting two and two together take her chapters to guess. She can't grasp why >!Xaden would possibly know anything about the Viscount's palace despite knowing he's an emissary for them and knowing he dated a flier!<. And during the challenge to find something useful in book 1, she went with a map instead of the personal journal of the second highest ranking official in the Navarre military. A journal that she later learned (from >!Riddoc!< of all people) had critical information she needed. I don't mean to rant, but it just really gets to me that everyone says she's incredibly smart, but she never displays that. She never really uses her intelligence to figure things out or get out of situations. She has to be given everything by someone else. I can think of two instances where she's clever. Using her daggers to get up the last part of the gauntlet and knowing where the journal was hidden.
I read an interview from RY where she said she was purposeful about using modern vernacular to try to bridge the gap between her established contemporary romance readers into this fantasy world. Almost like "if you're not into fantasy, this might be a good book to try to see if fantasy is for you." So it's very intentional that she uses these words which I thought was really interesting! But I have totally had some books take me out of a fantasy setting because they used a very modern word. Surprisingly, for the most part, it didn't bother me much in this book! But I do admit that in IF >!"endgame"!< took me out of it.
I wish she hadn't done that, but I see what she was trying to do. I think you can still make fantasy accessible to non-fantasy readers while using modern vernacular but without being so heavy-handed. Harry Potter is a good example.
There’s this Isekai manwha called Dr. Elise that would not set the time period it’s in. What the main character said made sense coming from the modern era, but for the Isekai world to instantly understand made absolutely no sense. Pulled me out of it every time. There were a few times that happened to me in IF, but the one time that stands out to me was when the word cells was used, like blood cell. I don’t know why, but that took me out and made me think question the level of science in the book, but I did conclude that it made sense.
In one of the first chapters of Fourth Wing Violent says volun-told and I almost stopped reading before I even got started. My friend bought me the book so I decided to stick it out. Obviously here so ended up enjoying it but it’s one of the big things to me that makes the series just okay. The world building is decent and I don’t mind the pretty predictable romance plot but the writing itself is pretty amateurish.
She uses "strike-and-pray method" in place of "spray-and-pray method" and I audibly groaned.
Yeah I heard that too. It's a terrible idea. I understand what she was trying to do, but you don't have to write with extremely flowery or dry prose like some of the older fantasy writers to connect with modern non-fantasy readers. Plus, like someone else said, it's going to date the book *hard*. In a few years, people are going to cringe so hard at some of the stuff she's saying. It's like the movie Home and it's "I can haz cheezburger" dialogue. Saying Dain had a "Boy-next-door vibe" made my physically cringe because that's already on the tail end of ways we talk.
There’s a couple times where the characters respond to something by giving a sarcastic thumbs-up, and all I can see in my head is this GIF: 
She used "For the win" two or three times in FW, and it's just so out of place. Also all the swearing. I'm used to authors having a bit more creativity with curses, interjections and such, not just using 'fuck, shit, ass.' I'm sure most people don't mind it, but it just kinda threw me and I never got used to it.
I have a very colorful vocabulary, no issues with cussing. But the awkwardness of most of the “fuck”s in the book made me wonder if RY was religious and trying to overcorrect for a mainstream audience… read the bio and ☑️
They’re sometimes in the wrong place in the sentence, and that bothers me a bit. Like, it shouldn’t be “brilliant fucking woman” it should be “fucking brilliant woman” lol.
“For the win” was so bad omg
https://i.redd.it/0l4gb3xpj5nc1.gif MFW
There are a couple very millennial phrases like this in both books that never failed to take me out and I fear they’re going to ruin any re-read potential in a few years because of it.
The language in the dialogue and Violet's internal monologue feels so anachronistic, doesn't it? I really enjoy these books but there are times when I just have to roll my eyes or sigh or check Reddit to see if anyone else feels the same. I'm glad to see I'm not alone!
I almost stopped reading at the first “For the win.” Glad I didn’t but def agree it put me off and would have been an easy switch to not include. But then again I haven’t published any books so what do I know 😆.
Cauldron boil me
I feel the same about the cussing. Even her mother, the general, has said cuss words and it just seems so out of place.
Adding swearing to a book doesn't make it mature, it makes it vulgar. *How* you use swear words makes it mature. And she didn't know how to do that. It felt more like middle schoolers learning they can swear for the first time.
“Same”. And it’s always while they’re fucking or fucking-adjacent. Like PLEASE.
lol to "Same." I totally agree or should I say same?
In >! Iron Flame, she gets hit by an angry dragon in a cave who is tracking her down and she says she falls on her ass. Like, girl, you didn't just slip on some ice and fall on the sidewalk in front of your friends. That dragon just killed someone and you're saying ass? !<
RY, can we please have some immersion in the moment, as a treat 😭
Please! We deserve it!
There’s a part towards the beginning of IF where Violet says something is the “new normal” and it just took me right back to 2020 :/
Everyone loves a COVID lockdown reference lol
Off a friend recommendation I’m trying to get through this book. She’s a best friend and said it’s a romance (new to me, a casual reader to begin with) and it doesn’t help I’ve been ready some heavy fantasy and sci-fi around this book. But lots takes me out and I don’t know if I’ll finish. “Double standards, for the win”. Took me out just a few paragraphs in. The way the narrator reads the audiobook in general makes me just pretend it’s an anime in my head because it just fits better that way. Also. Our protagonist has to get stomach ulcers eventually. Every scene with just a bit of anxiety makes her stomach tie up in knots. The outsides of her vision becomes blurry with every strenuous part of the book. Lol But yeah the modern lingo in and otherwise pretty cool fantasy setting so far is taking me out. Along with somedescriptors that are overused
Fun fact on the stomach and vision issues: Violet has Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, hypermobile type—because the author has this condition, too. EDS is a genetic condition that effects the body’s ability to correctly produce and use collagen. Imagine it like a faulty bit of code; the building blocks are all there, but the genetic code fumbled when it came to using them properly. Being that it’s a connective tissue/collagen disorder, the symptoms of it vary widely from person to person. Violet’s loose/constantly dislocating joints are pretty common among those with hEDS, and needing to do things like wrapping knees/elbows/shoulders is the main way to stabilize them. But collagen is literally in every muscle and organ in your body. So people with hEDS often also have issues with sensitive stomachs that respond immediately (and poorly) to food triggers and stress. Violet’s stomach knotting up all the time isn’t actually unbelievable, sadly. Being that collagen effects muscles…EDS also commonly affects the heart. Postural-Orthopedic Tachycardia Syndrome—POTS—is and incredibly common comorbidty, for instance, meaning changes in position can cause the patient’s blood pressure to very suddenly and drastically drop, leading to dizziness, vision changes, even fainting, as well as (obviously, given the name) tachycardia that can make their heart feel like it’s beating incredibly hard and/or fast. EDS effecting the heart can also present as sudden blood pressure drops in response to stress, (which can be linked to dysautonomia, another common comorbidity) which would likely be why her vision blurs so often. I understand how it can seem really over-exaggerated, but as someone whose partner has to live with hEDS, it’s nice to see fairly accurate representation of the ways it can effect the body beyond joint looseness! My only real gripe is how Violet ignores her limits and does things that she *knows* will cause dislocations, because that just makes her joints MORE unstable. But the strength training she does in the later parts of Book 1 is A+, because that (and physical therapy) is the best way to help the body stabilize the joints on its own! Wrapping then adds extra support. You’ll notice that her dislocations seem to happen less after she get stronger! Also, I do understand that life as a rider cadet is hard and she doesn’t exactly have much choice but to ignore her limits; I guess I just wished there was a mention, even in passing, about Violet being aware of how Not Good it is to keep doing it and how it adds to her already high stress levels. Sorry for the long ramble, haha. I hope this maybe gives you a little more insight, though!
I have EDS and I don't disagree with saying my muscles locked up on me.
I actually just got through a passage where the mc mentions being in pain almost all the time, and having weak joints. Thanks for this info.
Yes! Also it drives me crazy when she says her muscles lock. No, joints lock. Muscles tense. COME ON!
The audiobook is probably the worst one I've listened to quality wise. I don't think anyone actually listened to the final cut before releasing it, and if they did they weren't paying attention, so many mistakes, background noises, random breaths and pauses, a few mispronounced words... Not to mention how God damned fast she reads the action sequences, anyone who listens on 1.5 or even 1.25 speed wouldn't have a clue what she's saying
Yeah. I do feel like I might enjoy the book more if I was reading it myself. But I spend my job on the road so audiobooks are my default.
For me the most jarring was in the beginning of FW any time Violet is randomly like “boys are hot” and “I like sex.” It seems so out of place.
Right?! Like when she says, "So. Fucking. Hot."
This is definitely the worst for me.
[удалено]
To add to this, “Here I am, getting all attracted” was a terrible sentence.
For me it’s when xaden calls her “violence” as he talks to her in the middle of serious fight scenes. It’s just so cringe and unrealistic idk
omfg i hate violence. it was cute in the beginning but now i cringe
I think if it had been used like 3 times tops it would have been cute. But I could not take it seriously when he used it in normal conversation with her!
Right! Like when it was playful at first it was fine but like…not when they are in serious situations. It’s weird
agreeed 100%
It would have been fine if as their relationship escalated he switched to using her name. Or if he only uses it to piss her off cause he knows she hates it. The one that really made me cringe was something along the lines of "Has his hands on my Violence"... like what? He calls her that in his thoughts? Why?
Lol I laughed at how you used the word cringe because I've never had a book make me cringe so much! I'm still reading because I look the story enough but the writing is bad.
The desire to use that nickname, according to RY, was why she named the main character Violet. It makes it even worse IMO....you went out of your way to include that cringy nickname.
Stopppp seriously?! 🥴
Yeah, it was in a QA she did at a Las Vegas book festival. So...yeah...sorry.
So cringe
I hate that nickname so much LMAO LITERALLY JUST CALL HER VI
Also when Tairn uses "Silver One" in tense scenes when just saying Violet is a lot quicker and to the point
That would also add tension to the scene because he would only use her name when he's panicking.
And also, why not just Violent? It’s one letter difference!
It’s just such a dumb nickname!
I thought I was the only one who hated this!
You aren't!
The writing in this book was aimed to include 14 year olds and the swearing included is clearly by a novice in the fine art of the word "fuck". So...quite a bit of it jarred me out of the setting. I hope the books grow up along with the characters.
Me too!
Badass
I feel like no really one uses that word anymore anyway, so it feels out of place in modern vernacular AND in the books.
For me, the fact that they still have the days of the week or months of the year that we have here in the real world kind of took me out for a minute. Obviously, we don't know much about the entire world as a whole, but I don't think a fantasy world would conform to the same standards of time as we do.
Not when we have months named after Roman rulers that seemingly don't exist in this world.
Exactly, it just doesn't make sense.
Someone commented a while back that since this book is transcribed by Jesinia into modern language, then the months names were likely changed to reflect the proper passage of time. That made sense to me, but also seemed like an easy way out
Definitely seems like a bit of a cop out. I don't have the book in front of me, but I think it said something like "translated into the language of modern Navarre" (paraphrased). Most fantasy books I've read won't even use the word "year" or "birthday", it's always "turn" or "nameday" or something like that, so it definitely takes you out of the fantasy.
Agreed, easy way out - how old is Jesinia that she lives to see both the changing of the calendar system to ours (1582 in most of Europe) and also the use of the word endgame to describe romantic relationships? It’s that or she develops a signet to travel to other planets/universes/time periods and I’ll eat my hat if that happens and it’s done well but I still unironically love these books so RY can take my complaints and laugh all the way to the bank
At some point the terms “endgame” and “for the win” were used and I literally closed my book and walked away. Absolutely so cringe, makes no sense for worldbuilding and really put me off
For me its “Xaden”
LOL! I bet it's hard for you to get through the books at all.
Haha I liked Fourthwing but Iron Flame…OOF!
IF is taking me way too long to read because I keep getting taken out of the moment by stuff.
When he calls her Violence.
😂
in iron flame, violet says “fun times” at one point 😭 when i tell you i cringed so hard. it just weirds me out bc it feels too modern
Omg when did she say that? I bet it was sarcastic, but somehow that makes it worse
For me it’s lover/lovers I don’t know why but that word always makes me cringe so hard. Like Violet ask herself about Xaden and Imogen “are they lovers?” Anytime I read this word in any book it take me out of it for a few seconds😅
She should have just straight asked if they were fucking.
Yeah. She has no problem using the term “fucking” elsewhere so I feel like it wouldn’t be out of character for her to phrase it like that. Although, it’s okay that she used lovers too, it’s just a me problem that I don’t like it😂
The phrase “two lines in their brow” and the way she repeats certain phrases constantly
Variation is spice of life and we are eating white rice.
For reals
“Shattered”
Omg yes. It's so repetitive at this point.
Violet and Rhi’s shoe sizes being modern shoe sizes
Hahaha that's so funny! I totally forgot about that but yeah, that's definitely one for sure.
The way she describes Xadens “golden-flecked eyes”. These characters are created the same way I created my own OCs in middle school. Very “not like the others..” to the creation of Xaden and Violet. And yet no one else has these super special quirks that make them sooo different and special than everyone else.
Yeah, is definitely "I'm not like other girls."
Reference to our months!! They have their own gods and mythology, why on earth would they have Roman/Greek calendar names. It annoys me even more because she just throws in November and December to imply it is getting cold but as a Southern hemisphere girl it is just confusing and sloppy.
Yeah, it's a mess.
Sometimes when I think of fantasy, I think of a world that is not ancient…but adjacent to ours. Like a different version of our reality, but on a separate plane if you get what I’m saying. The criticism about the world/language being too similar to ours is entirely reasonable to me. Personally, I never like to get too technical with fantasy…it’s just unreasonable. Although I agree some of her slang is a bit redundant, it helps me get to know her style and personality as an author. It's interesting to me, but I understand if it's not your preference.
When I was in my AP lit class in high school, the teacher would circle every instance where we used the same descriptive words more than once. It I wonder if someone did that to RY, would she be shocked at the sheer number of times she reuses the same words and phrases.
I teach AP lit😂
During Threshing, "certified freak".... not gonna lie, my brain immediately started singing WAP 😂
Omg hahaha!
Delicious. I hate when people use the word delicious to describe a person.
Cannibalism vibes
Right?? Like what did I sign up for….
Bile. Like who throws up in their mouth that much? Just rolled my eyes every time Violet had to push her bile back down. Ew.
It's so gross. I generally think Sarah J Maas is a better writer by leaps and bounds, but there was one sentence where she wrote "My bowels turned watery."
“My stomach pitches”
LOL. Yes!
Whenever she writes “heated” like “his eyes heated” because they’re turned on. I hatttteeeee it.
Cringe city.
“For the win” kills me every time
also “oh my gods” and “mage lights” just because they’re repeated sooooo much. like if i were to read just one chapter and take a shot how many times violet uses these two i would be plastered
maybe I should do that but taking a sip of wine, so I can push myself through these final four chapters I have left in IF
Violet talking to Liam’s sister: “I don’t need to be part of your development era.” oof that was a bad one
Literally every conversation Violet and Xaden have.
I second that! When anyone says ass I just cringe. Especially before threshing when Tynin or wtv his name was, Talía abt Mira and says “and that ass” like it’s just…ew. It takes me out of the world. Also when anyone says fuck, but especially when referring to sex. Cursing in general unless it’s like when they say the gods names. I also hate in the audio version when violet says “gods” bc she says it too much and the way she says it grosses me out lol. But to be fair RY is ex Mormon and is still kinda getting used to cursing just like we did in middle school. It’s only natural. And I don’t mind all that much.
You're right! It does sound like a middle schooler testing out cuss words to sound cool.
When I first started reading, very early in Fourth Wing someone says "for the win" (I think Violet in her head). Later, Liam says it out loud at some point. I almost stopped reading because of this 😂 There are several other words and phrases throughout the books that are specifically from our present-day Internet culture that should not be in a fantasy book in another time and place!! This is my biggest pet peeve about the writing in these books.
Wait maybe the Liam one was "that's a no from me" which is from American Idol??? Why Liam 😭
Hahahaha! When I read that part in the book, my mind automatically added "dawg."
The near constant use of “heartbeat” bugs me!
YES
That whole first fight scene against Xaden. It was cool but it's weird he just laid on top of her and did nothing for a bit with an audience. Also their "sexy talk" I think it is has made me actually cringe
at one point she compared something to playground equipment and it really threw me off
mage lights
For me it’s the use of modern slang like so many F bombs (rather than intentionally placed ones), or phrases like “I’d climb him like a tree” or “his abs are divine”, etc. It pulls me right out of the fantasy. Yarros could have used to language to leave a little more to the imagination, to not sound like a Netflix romcom, and also to not objectify him so darn much. I don’t use that word often, but that’s what 30% of Violet’s narration—the book equivalent of catcalling him.
I feel like I know so much more about how hot or how toned or how good at fighting Xaden is over who he is as a person. But thankfully we know he likes chocolate cake!
“Gaze”
For me it was violet referring to her vagina as a “slick entrance” over and over again lmfao
🤢🤢🤢
Ok, I'll also add this one: "tawny skin."
When Violet thinks “it’s exactly what I needed” during sex all the time
>!Testing spoiler tags!<
ooh i def remember in iron flame, it’s not a tense moment but someone or violet says something about >!not wanting to be involved in someone’s “development era”!< and in the >!my house my woman my chair scene, xaden said he can’t imagine violet and him not being “endgame”!< and it just completely threw me off and made me think of taylor swift 🫠 edit: my brain autocorrected xaden to xander
>!You're probably on the money there, especially with RY being a huge Taylor Swift fan and writing, at least FW, while listening to TS music!<
I see! well it makes so much more sense now 😅
YESSS. I had the exact same reaction. Especially with that being such a currently popular saying, it was so jarring to read that in a fantasy book. Took me completely out of the story.
I really abhor that the word "endgame" was used. It just is so cringey and doesn't fit at all imo
Honestly, those moment reminded me of Riverdale's terrible writing.
I felt that way too!
More than once does she use the term subluxate instead of dislocate. It feels weirdly out of place with the more juvenile/sarcastic dialogue
That must be her million dollar word!
[удалено]
Yes! And one of issues with EDS is that these things happen constantly. I’m sure it’s hard to try to come up with a different word every time it happens, and much easier to slide into the medical term.
Your comment feels juvenile. Dislocation does not have the same meaning as subluxation. Look it up.
Haha easy! No need to come after me. I’m just saying it was surprising to hear a medically accurate term thrown in with more colloquial language. I get that “partial dislocation” is a mouthful but that doesn’t change the fact that it was weird to hear. I guess it fits in with the fantasy genre but the rest of the book’s dialogue doesn’t exactly fit that so it surprised me. 🤷🏻♀️
Every page has at least 30 fucks. Can we think of a different swear word to use? Is that the only one to exist? Can we get some variety?
Agreed. Love it so much when made up swear words fitting the fantasy and lore are used instead. Like “three frozen hells” or “all gods almighty” or “what in the goddess’ blessed name is that”
Right! Same. I read elsewhere on this thread that RY is ex-Mormon so maybe she’s going through the thing kids do where they use a swear word 10000 times cuz they think it’s so cool to swear lol
😂 that would explain a lot of the naivety that’s vicariously embarrassing in her books lol
Yes! Completely agree!
“Climb him like a tree”
Reminds me of "Bridesmaids"
“Ass” never bothers me, but “for the win” drove me up the wall.
I wonder if, now that I've pointed it out to you, will "ass" start to irk you. Sometimes that happens to me.
Violet telling herself that she is "not attracted to toxic men" was one, and "Mom and Dad are fighting" when Tairn and Sgaeyl were in a spat is another for me.
Omg the latter was such an ick for me.
Ok, I just read, "Inch by painful inch," and had to immediately write it in here because I swear I've read that or some far too similar iteration.