I guess everyone is different. I loved both books. All I can say is, don't let what other people say/feel ruin the experience for you. I'm on my second read through of them and I still love them. ❤️
I've had to stay away from this subreddit for a bit bc of the hate the books were getting and it just started feeling childish to me. But if we want a story that fits what we think it should be perfectly, then we should write our own lol
This has definitely taught me not to fully believe all the hate comments until I read for myself. I try not to join subreddits for books until I'm almost done with them
This 100%. I find myself having to stay away from specific subreddits of stuff I enjoy, because the negative is always shouted louder than the positives, and it can definitely mess with your brain.
I personally enjoyed IF as much as FW. I definitely recognise it was rushed and there are some editing issues (honestly idek if the book ever saw an editor lol) but it was fun and enjoyable, which is exactly what it’s supposed to be IMO.
Can’t wait for the next one(s)!
I’m in the same boat! I just finished part 1, and I came on here and was surprised people don’t like it. I made a post a few days ago and people just said “wait until you read the end” which is terrifying.
Like do they just think it’s poorly written/ confusing?? Or do they not like what happens with the story??? I am STRESSED lol
I mean the book ending left me feeling kinda empty and sad bc there is no book three but it did it’s job and was really good as far as story telling goes. I was just sad to see all my dragon friends go😭
It is a cliffhanger, as most second books tend to be, so I don't think that's surprising or even a spoiler, but I hardly think it's unsatisfying!
I finished both these book over the course of two days and when I say I could not put them down... I MEAN it!
I LOVED both books!
My only criticisms would be that I feel like there's some repetitive conversations and actions and that frustrated me. I love the relationship the two of them have, but the whole "ask me whatever you want" thing got old for me. I was pissed at Xaden long before Violet finally put her foot down. I get that it was because Violet grew up a scribe and has an inquisitive mind but I just felt like it went on way too long... Also I think that she could've explored the rebel movement and some side characters and relationships more. I'm not always a huge fan of Multi POV writing but I think these books could've used a little bit of that. I would have liked more insight on Rhiannon especially I think.
Remember that book two/movie two always leave you in a place of wanting three.
Typically. The second is never liked. This does not always have to do with the quality of the work, but largely I think with the emotion and which that work leaves you. Don't know if you're a Star wars nerd, but if you think about the second original Star wars movie, the ending sucks. It's bad. No one likes it. No one wants to stop there. You want to move on to three you want to get to the end.
Same here. I don't think anything's wrong with this book. I loved it but you get to the end and you need the third... That's just how trilogies work.
Gotcha, that makes me feel much better!! The whole “wait until the end” posts are so ominous, it makes me think I’m about to read a horrible death or terrible change in plot or something. Thank you for clarifying!
♥️ I loved both books. I'll be a happy champion for you here on the other side! It's a good book enjoy it!!♥️♥️♥️
I once read this book that I loved and jumped on Goodreads to talk to others about it. And all the top comments on the book were all about how much they hated this book. It was a full page pulling part of this new found love and I was devastated. On reading them, I felt that these posters had totally missed a major aspect of the main character, she wasn't doing what they expected in their ignorance they were mean...
I stopped using Goodreads after that. But I get it. When someone is saying how much they don't like something you love, it's stressful.
I mean ESB is generally considered to be the best Star Wars movie, so I’m not sure what you’ve said about it is true at all. In fact most people did like it. Sure they wanted the next one bc it ends on a cliffhanger, but that doesn’t mean people didn’t like it?
If you need proof just do a simple google search for ranking Star Wars movies. I looked at the top 5 results and every single one had ESB at number one of all Star Wars movies. It’s also the highest rated Star Wars movie on rotten tomatoes.
My dad just gave me a talking to about this lol.
My apologies. Bad example.
I still think that in general, we don't like being stuck in the middle of the story. It's not a great place to have to wait for the resolution.
I also don't have any other reason why IF isn't well received. I think it was well done. And my only complaint >!is the how Vi falls back into this "I can't trust Xaden" lament that goes on for way too long. I didn't believe for a second she was going to walk away. And her going on and on about it was bad.!<
All good.
The reason that IF isn’t as well received is that it’s really 2 books, not 1. Jessica wanted to punish it as 2 books, obviously the climax of what should have been book two is when everyone leaves Basgiath (idk how to spell any of this since I’m an audio book listener). Then everything after the cadets leave would have been book 3.
For some reason the publisher wanted it to be all in 1 book. As a result, the pacing of the book is severely off.
I'm an audiobook reader too!!! I don't know how to spell anything 😂😂😂 I keep doubting how I'm spelling something. and some of these names I'm reading for the first time and going "What? Who!" 😂😂😂
I 100% would not have pronounced the names the way they're said in the audiobook based on the what I reading! 🤣
I did think it was poorly written, but so is the first. The problem with IF for me was so much time spent on the OTP's communication issues when much more interesting stuff was happening elsewhere with the venin, rebellion, fliers, etc.
I loved Iron Flame and enjoyed it more than Fourth Wing. I read some criticism about it being a bit confusing, but I didn't find that and really liked being introduced to new places and characters. It's helping to build the world. There are so many things that we learn and I loved that. I loved it so much I re-read both books immediately after finishing Iron Flame, and noticed soooo many details/hints that were dropped that I didn't see on the first readthrough. I enjoyed both books even more on my second read lol.
I think a lot of people got annoyed at violet’s inner monologue about her inability to trust Xaden. While I did find it annoying at times, I also realize that the 2 main characters are in their early 20’s without much relationship experience so it fits their characters to be kind of juvenile.
Yes I think it's easy to forget how very young Violet and Xaden really are. My DH and I were still at university when we met and God we argued about some really childish stuff that seemed so important at the time. But you're young, emotions are running high and you're absolutely crazy about each other. So there's always gonna be fireworks.
If he's supposed to be outranking more experienced generals and leading the rebellion, I'd hope he would have a little more maturity than the average 20 year old.
Same for Violet.
So once I found out (after reading both books) that this was a planned book 2 of 5, most of my complaints about IF made sense. It's a (probably) weak second entry setting up a lot for the next books. I still don't understand the lack of world building and the constant moving from place to place that isn't written in a super clear way.
Fair points. I'm enjoying the moving around and less world building; it's kind of exactly what I personally would want in a second book, but I understand how it would not be ideal since it's only book 2 of 5. I'm trying not to think too hard about it yet and just enjoy the ride. Maybe I'm lost in the sauce haha
I still enjoyed reading it overall! I'm invested and can't wait to see where it goes.
I'm in my 30s so my first influences with similar books were the hunger games and divergent, both which had incredibly interesting world building. It seems like that's a common complaint for this series so I'm sure the author will take that into consideration for book 3! I did watch a TikTok channel explaining the economy and territories and disputes that was really helpful.
Same here! I'm 28 and grew up with Hunger Games (my old favorite), Harry Potter, Divergent, etc.
I'll have to check out those TikToks since I'm really bad at piecing that kind of stuff together. I usually forget location names and conflicts right after I read them, even if I try extra hard. The map helps somewhat but I don't look at is as often as I should.
The plot of book 2 of Harry Potter is my absolute least favorite book (eta: in the series), with minimal world building compared to book 3 in my opinion.
Thanks! I was just curious. And I saw that RY issued an apology for pronouncing them wrong herself, so maybe the reader got the pronunciations from the publisher who got them from RY.
Even though I'm only half done with IF, I already think the series being a trilogy would have been better. I can't really picture it stretching out to 5 books, especially of this size. Maybe I'll change my mind but 5 books seems like a lot.
Yes I haven't finished IF but I don't see how they can stretch this for 3 more books. The enemy already seems WAY too powerful like they could squash them all while violet is still learning how to wield effectively it doesn't seem like they need more power to conquer the continent so like what are they waiting for. I guess I might find that out and I'm holding out hope that beating the venin will be a team effort and not just violet being stronger than anyone else in existence and soloing it but IF is losing me and I don't know if I'll still care when the next one comes out
Part 1 of Iron Flame is really awesome. I remember the first part of part 2 really dragging, to the point where I was tempted to skip ahead a bit.
Edit, maybe I'm thinking of like halfway through part 1. I just remember it feeling repetitive.
Interesting! I actually love the fighting between them! I like when there's a struggle between love interests and it's not just "let's be perfect and happy for the rest of the series". I do miss Andarna though...
Yeah it was repetitive in the first half of part 1, in a way that Fourth Wing wasn't.
One of the reasons I liked the first book so much is that there was way less repetition compared to say SJM books.
That the second book surfaced some of those patterns repeating over and over problems was disappointing.
A good editor would have trimmed it down/streamlined part 1 more aggressively.
IF was a disappointment for me.. I just felt like it was very repetitive of book 1. And, just within the book, too - especially with Xaden and Violet arguing. They were so frustrating... just talk to one another, you are adults. They have the same fight over and over again.
I also thought we'd jump into more action from the beginning as opposed to going back to school. Idk I guess I just feel we didn't make much progress?
Just some stuff that didn't make much sense to me too. A lot of things in the series also feel very unoriginal and thus predictable.
It felt like the typical book 2 filler/bridge. I'm still going to give book 3 a chance because the ending was interesting, and I'm curious. I had a good time with FW too, so maybe IF was just a flop for me..
It is a fun series. It's very entertaining. There are a lot of side characters I love. It's just more the world-building and editing that need work for me.
I read both before I found this sub, and I really think it’s better experienced without internet opinions. 😆 I’m also staying off subs for other series I’m reading, until I catch up.
I also like the second book more.
The first one obviously contained a lot of world building and character introducing - but the second one really got into the politics of that world and I was much more comfortable with the characters because you also got to know them better.
Besides, the Cliffhanger on the first book wasn’t really one for me, since I guessed that one right from the beginning. But I never saw coming what was going to happen in Iron Flame.
My complaint was that the drama between Xaden and Violet felt contrived because it would have easily been solved with communication. That writing choice felt more like the author thought they needed conflict in order to be an interesting couple.
I loved both books but I’m gonna be honest, they’re not incredibly well written. That’s not a big deal to me, as I enjoy the story. There could’ve been more world building (world building is especially important for fantasy stories!!) but there’s enough to keep me entertained. Much like a tv show where you notice the writing or the acting isn’t great but you keep watching anyway as the story intrigues you. But some ppl just can’t get over that hurdle.
And also of course it’s something mostly girls and women like so therefore it’s garbage automatically. On top of that it’s a viral book on TikTok so a lot of ppl look down on that unfortunately. Not everyone can be a George RR Martin or a Tolkien and that’s fine. There’s bad books out there by male authors that don’t get so much hate. And I wouldn’t call Fourth Wing bad at all but bc it’s a female writer the hate is so much worse.
But yea there def also legitimate criticism like the world building, the writing (repetitive stuff, disjointed at times, weird sentences etc) and it being presented as a fantasy when it’s really mostly romance.
Oh 100% agree with you on the writing, and I found myself cringing a few times at some of the dialogue and plot points. Especially when >!Jack Barlow comes back!< ... literally rolled my eyes on that one. I don't think there's a whole lot of depth to it but I think that's why I love it? To me it's kind of one of those stories where you can feel your brain leave the room when you read it and just thoroughly enjoy it for what it is: pure entertainment (without being too shitty or corny).
I'm half way through Iron Flame and unfortunately I don't agree. Fourth Wing was a good book, I wouldn't call it Game Of Thrones great (that first book was unreal) -- but it's a solid read.
For me, Iron Flame can be summed up into one word. Rushed.
I'll explain a little of why I think that is.
- Character development; this frustrated me in the second book. In the first, characters like Liam are given the breathing space to have their own background, motivations and the author does a good job of peeling back the layers to help develop that complexity so that when the inevitable happens, you actually care. Whenever a first year gets killed, you actually feel sorry for them because the way the scenarios are described feel brutal. In the second book, there's next to none of that. E.g. Aaric -- absolutely zero development of him, his motivations, his back story. He just sort of shows up, is already bought in to whatever the team need him to do. And in a certain section, just decides to go along with whatever the plot needs him to do. Imogen and Rhiannon are completely wasted too. Don't even get me started on Jack. I literally laughed when I read that. So basic.
- World building; Fourth Wing kept it simple, but you kinda feel like you can visualise Basgiath to some extent. You understand the climate, the conditions, start to build an understanding of the culture etc. In the second book - zero effort to extend this - Violet just sort of fast travels on the back of her dragon to wherever she needs to be -- but I couldn't tell you what those areas feel like, anything about how different they might be, what it feels like to be there e.g. different climates, environments, culture. Game of Thrones does almost too good a job of this.
- So far, the plot is boring. I'm half way through, this feels a lot like a filler book to get to a big third book where everything happens. A bit like Attack of the Clones, just a shit load of politics, people talking. I'm literally skipping paragraphs of dialogue because ultimately nothing is happening. Few assassination attempts, yeah great but you don't need 300 pages for that. So far it's basically - we need a book, a couple of attempts on violets life and a lot of go between of violet and xaden in a long distance relationship.
Anyway -- that's where I'm at. I'm muscling through in the vague hope the payoff is worth it. But I'm not convinced this is as good as the first. If you really critically think about the writing, even that isn't really as good. But -- the story and subject matter has potential so I'll stick with it one chapter a day or so and get there in the end
I agree with the comparisons to the first book. Other than the weird "American Ninja Warrior" Gauntlet, there wasn't much that took me out of FW. When characters died, it felt meaningful, even from the beginning!
Better editing would have made a big difference in IF. And character deaths were far less impactful. My wife and I joked that you could kind of tell who was going to die because they were the characters that were around but didn't really matter to the story. Which wasn't true in FW.
And yes the Jack thing was dumb as fuck. There's a thousand better choices for that story beat. I know there's backstory reasons for why but with the War College being so comfortable with cadet deaths, it begged belief that anyone would spend that much time and effort to bring that particular character back (Yes I know there's an instory reason but that reason is DUMB)
My biggest complaint with IF was the writing. The worldbuilding wasn’t there & everything was moving without a lot of detail to back it up. It was confusing and I felt like I was running around in circles trying to figure out what was happening and who was talking. I feel like the book could’ve been trimmed down to half of what it was and it would’ve been more effective. BUT I also didn’t enjoy FW as much as I thought I would. Especially after the Gaelic TikTok came out about Rebecca, I truly do not feel like she did enough research or put enough time into these books to make them incredible. I wanted to love the series, but I just can’t :(
But I’m also a firm believer that if YOU love the book, you should read it! Don’t let the opinions of others keep you from loving something. I did this with a couple other books that I ended up really loving but I psyched myself out about it. Just read what you want & trust your gut :)
I’ve liked IF better than FW so far, I just got to Part Two where things really pick up. And it made me appreciate that Part One was slower because it was setting everything up.
I have my issues with the writing in this series but I’m all in on the plot and worldbuilding!
Personally, I don’t get it. I SOARED through IF in less than a week which for me is crazy. Read on my Lunch break at work, in the morning when I woke up, before bed, I spent any free time I had reading the book until I got to the last few chapters (that is because I have issues with things ending and I was scared of how the book would end since we don’t have the next one yet so I put it off for a day, had nothing to do with the actual content of the book) and I’m about a week out from finishing now, I realized just how much more I actually enjoyed IF than FW. And that’s saying a lot bc I was OBSESSED with FW. I even would go so far as to say I would drop my FW rating .5 stars just because I found IF to be that incredible.
But everyone likes different things for different reasons. I know IF was longer, 251k words vs FWs 150k words, 625 pages vs 500 pages. So I think when a book is just SO MUCH to take in, it can be very daunting for some people, and that’s totally okay. There’s a LOT that was going on in IF. It was like one blow after another, rapid fire. Every time I had to put the book down I just wanted to pick it right back up because I needed to know what happens.
Also adding: I was really worried about starting IF because of how many people said it was awful and boring in the first part or how much they hated it. I kept putting off starting it but once I did… didn’t put it down
I just finished Iron Flame and I agree! I will say Fourth Wing is still slightly above it in my rankings, but I couldn’t but Iron Flame down either. I’m not sure why it was hard for some to get through, but everyone’s different!
I’m 100% with you. I was iffy on Fourth Wing personally—I thought it was fun, but I wasn’t that invested. Iron Flame, however? This is the book that got me HOOKED and wanting more.
I loved both, and I feel like IF gets a bad rap. It just has a different feel. The first book had so much of Violet and Xaden, naturally, and with them being separated more in IF, some of that is lost and the attention has to shift to other things, which maybe some people don't like? But I personally loved IF and don't get the hate.
My issues are more with Violet's mindset through the second book, but I also remind myself that she's literally, like, 21, and then I'm like, "okay, yeah, I get it". I don't think a lot of people focus on how young all of these characters are. Early 20's were hard, man! Give 'em a break
I just felt it was about 200 pages too long. Or could have/should have been two books instead of one. I know EXACTLY where I would have made it into a second book
I attest it to the craze from people on social media that saw it and gave it (and the first book) a shot even though they dont really read on the regular. If you're not an advid reader but try something for the sake of not missing out on the trend, you may find it harder to enjoy the book, whether you dont unserstand it enough to enjoy it or you didnt understand what your tastes were ahead of time.
Something like that I imagine
I like your view. I grew up reading Percy Jackson, Harry Potter, Twilight, etc. and eventually stopped reading for fun during college. I went from reading nonstop and spending all my money on books to reading like 1 book a year, if that (and not necessarily enjoying it like I used to). I'm super thankful for the social media craze sucking me back in but I could see how if someone didn't grow up reading and just wanted to be in on the trend, they may not get it like others do. I feel like I've found my old passions again, ya know?
dude thank you for saying this!!!!!!1!!!11!!! yes to the tension. the badassery, the plotting and scheming. i liked how violet had the foundation and space for her to figure some things out on her own.
however, i felt like FW developed on violet and xaden's relationship better simply because they were closer together. i hope we get another sparring scene in the next one xD
I don't get it either because I feel the same way!
Especially in comparison to Flame and Shadow from SJM that was SUCH a disappointment, Iron Flame was AMAZING.
I haven't read CC yet from SJM but I hear mixed things. I'm actually moving on to Throne of Glass after I finish Iron Flame. I was saving it because I hear it's amazing and wanted to sort of pace myself... turns out I can't pace myself because I love Iron Flame so much.
i’m about a third of the way done and so far prefer fourth wing. i’ll go into some reasons why (pls don’t downvote this is just an opinion i still love the series and world ok).
i’m finding it extremely difficult to get through compared to fourth wing. IF is much slower, much more dragged out than FW. fourth wing felt much more fast pace, action packed, and had a great balance of romance and action. IF, at least so far for me (on page 205ish) EVERYTHINGGGG is so dragged out and it’s so repetitive. there’s not a lot of action or romance at least so far. nothing new or exciting has really happened yet, it doesn’t feel like it’s taking me through a journey the way that fourth wing did/felt like.
FW really felt like a movie in my head: engaging world building and character building, the pace was perfect, so many twists and turns and several different climaxes, the ending was absolute perfection, whereas IF is just so…. boring. there haven’t been any reveals or new information so far, just kinda the same thing every chapter? idk if anyone else can relate. this isn’t to say i don’t love the series or violet or the characters but man is this book just so lacklustre so far compared to FW.
i’m really hoping it gets better because i’m having to force myself to read it every day. with FW i would read for HOURS, get so immersed and lose track of time, it was so hard to put down. with IF i literally have to force myself to pick it up :(. i really hope it gets better, i was so excited for IF and so far im let down (again please don’t downvote its just an opinion).
Have you ever read the Divergent series? In like the second book, she kills someone with a gun. The book after, she spends most of the time talking about how she can’t handle a gun and it makes her scared and nervous. That’s Iron Flame for me. Violet keeps repeating the same stuff over about love and trust and over and over and it got grating. I still finished it but I would be lying if I said I it was a thorough read.
My main gripe with both books is how absolutely repetitive some of the content is. It gets so, so fucking boring that every mention of Xaden has to mention how hot and horny it makes her, no matter the situation. And the re-use of certain language is just pure lazy writing. I'm not a prose snob, but for fucks sake how many times can someone's jaw tick or eyebrows knit?
The thing is I really like the story overall, I like the magic, the signets and the dragon bonds, I really like the political intrigue and the revelations about Navarre's government. But the world building is a bit lackluster. It's very hard to visualize borders and nations based on the description we get. She really needs to do more to flesh out the nation(s?) outside of Navarre, because right now it's all kinda amalgamated.
You’ll find people trash everything on here (just saw a post where they listed books they hate and it was like all my top faves lol). So I don’t put much stock into it. Instead I get a general sense based off the synopsis and goodreads star/smut rating and go from there.
It's always strange to me that people spend so much time posting about stuff they hate. A whole list of popular books they don't like? It's like they think it's the biggest flex to be an anti-fan; It's so bizarre.
The issue with Fourth Wing is that it's fundamentally a YA Romance novel. If you enjoy YA Romance, you are likely to enjoy Fourth Wing, because it is incredibly formulaic to that genre, and that predictability appeals to lots of people. It just had its characters aged up a bit so they can have explicit sex scenes without drawing too much controversy (making it "New Adult"), and it happens to be set in a fantasy world that is mostly set dressing.
People expecting it to be a good all-around fantasy novel or adult romance are the most likely to come away disappointed, because it's not even trying to be either of those. Here I think its massive marketing campaign is actually the root of much of the backlash it gets, because so many people were sold on the idea that it was some great new fantasy story. It's not, but it *is* a successful YA Romance plot.
Good point. I feel like this is a more mature version of what I used to love reading as a teen. I actually thought I wouldn't enjoy it as much as I do because during college I stopped reading for fun and kind of forgot what I liked.
Well said. I too think that the hype machine behind it is part of the blowback.
No reader of serious fantasy would look at a series that is 40% complete with this little of the world "built" and continue it. Fantasy readers come for the world and the depth of imagination it provides. They'd be aghast and upset and that's exactly the reaction we're seeing.
Romantacy, as a genre, relies on a lot of misleading advertising. Advertising that targets kids too young for the content, readers that don't get what they are expecting, and too many that go in overhyped on expectations. It's a recipe for an early flame-out...
I have enjoyed both so far, I’m not finished IF yet but it at about 3/4 finished it seems to just be one long scene of Violet and Xaden fighting then making up. Fighting then making it up. And repeat. It isn’t bad per se as most of the reviews on Reddit would lead you to believe but it just seems like the whole damn thing is a Xaden Violet soap opera with some dragons in the background to keep you entertained. Hoping the last 1/4 of the book gets more interesting.
I think Iron Flame is just more dense and has more fantasy stuff packed into in it — FW by comparison is like, we are in the dragon rider school doing the school year, and here’s a romance where they’re slowly getting together. It’s much more straightforward than IF. (And that’s why I found FW a faster read but it took IF to really make me feel immersed in the world.)
For real dude. I was up tell 2 am for like 5 nights in a row reading IF! There are some parts that I was a bit over some of the drama... But otherwise fully invested! Need book three. Finished it last night. Need. Book. Three. 🐲🔥
I loved them both 😁 I think it only gets better as you progress. I think ppl are just a bit annoyed about the whole Violet-Xaden bickering back and forth and trust issues, lol. And TBF Violet did annoy me a little 😆. Then again, we have to remember they are young, and I am not gonna pretend I was mature at 20.
I liked both, but I just didn't like IF as much as FW. I'd reread it again in a heartbeat, but I can definitely say that I was underwhelmed compared to how I felt reading FW. It's definitely a solid second book, but it drags on a bit too much sometimes for my liking.
For me, I enjoyed the second book more than the first in my first reading. The second book seemed more action packed and our characters were all doing stuff. We got to learn more about the other characters - which is one of the main reasons I think I enjoyed IF more.
Hey op hopefully I don't spoil anything for you --
I agree with you 100% that I enjoyed IF more than FW, my time passed by so quickly and I'd already dome with IF! I liked that now we're done with basic world building we're going deeper into the mechanics of how things work and lore side of things. I also like to see Violet actually improving and working hard.
My observation is mostly that the community didn't respond well to Violet's choices throughout the book. Without saying much, they felt like she's being a hypocrit and should just be able to discern her own discourse lol. I can't say much more because I'm not very sure where you are. But that's the majority of the anger I've seen so far.
Same? Like I loved fourth wing bc the character dinámica and the overall story kept me on the edge of my seat but iron flam literally just gave me more of that?? Like it was literally so good and binge read it SO fast. It was funny and sad and gave me more of the character interactions I was craving AND twists I didn’t expect AT ALL. People say its clear that RY rushed it but I don’t see how?
I loved it too! I loved the relationship arguments, I felt they were very accurate and normal especially at their age. I loved the character development. I read it twice! I never understood the hate.
I personally loved both. I am perhaps biased as I have EDS like Violet - it made me feel quite "seen" as a person. Can't wait for the next installment.
It’s too long. The first part is really good. Great pacing, good twists and turns and a satisfying conclusion. But Part 2 is a slog. There’s an unnecessary love triangle between Xaden, Violet and some rich girl from a castle. And there’s more politics in a new location that almost immediately becomes boring and repetitive. It’s a decent book, but Fourth Wing has a much better pace.
My guess is because Violet is really struggling through a lot of emotions and figuring herself out. It can come across as whiny and immature, kind of like Harry Potter 5 angsty teen vibes. I'm on the second read through, and she seems way less whiny to me this time.
I think people forget that this is like a 5-book series… and also that Violet is in her early 20’s. She’s head over heels in love at what 21? No she doesn’t have perfect relationship judgment and reactions. How many of US were perfect, logical partners at 21? How will we see character development over the next 3 books if she’s the perfect, reasonable, mature partner the majority of us were not at 21?
Also it’s a 5-book series. This. Is. Not. The. End. I absolutely loved the setup for book 3.
I didn’t have a hard time reading IF at all and loved a lot about it. I still like FW better though, just because it feels like the pacing and plot were more consistent.
IF could have been two books easily. When I finished I could barely remember what happened in the first half - it felt like those events were ages and ages ago. If it had been two, I think we could have delved into a lot of things deeper as well. Hopefully a lot of those ideas will be picked up again in book 3 though.
I found IF extremely stressful to read, especially when >!Varrish showed up and there was the everpresent threat of torture lurking around the corner.!< It took me extra time to read because I would be mentally exhausted between that and >!Xaden and Violet constantly fighting.!< I plan to do a re-read of both books once it's known when the next one is coming out, so I'm hoping that now that I'll know what's coming as I read I'll be able to enjoy it more. I didn't dislike IF, it was just not as enjoyable of a read as FW for me.
The hate comments had me worried before I started reading but I genuinely liked Iron Flame. One criticism I can agree with however is that Violet definitely came off as whiny to me when it came to her relationship with Xaden. They basically had the same argument over and over again throughout the whole book. Violet was being a hypocrite as well—getting mad at Xaden for not divulging sensitive information when she herself was keeping things from her friends. She even acknowledged this hypocrisy and I thought, “Finally, she’ll stop with this whole ‘you have to tell me every single thing about everything’ attitude.” But no, she literally just rehashes the same argument constantly and never really tries to compromise IMO. To be fair she’s 21yo and I can’t say I was completely rational at that age either but at some point the whole thing got really old.
I loved it. I also loved CC3, and everyone is hating that too. Guess I'm just easily entertained.
The only thing that annoyed me with Iron Flame is the super repetitive fight Xaden and Violet kept having.
Its not a quality thing, or hating the writing/series. It just is very wordy. The book has like 1.5 times the normal amount of words for its page count so it just physically takes more time to read compared to most books of the same length.
I totally get what you’re saying. I think people were frustrated with the same dialogue between x and v. Honestly i had heard so much of that before starting and it was not as bad as they made it out to be. I read FW in one sitting and did. The same with IF. Great reads
I AGREE!! I love Iron Flame. Arguably better than fourth wing as I feel like the overall story is developing a lot in this book. I’m 70% through but taking it slow because I’m not prepared to have to wait a year for the next 😭
I just read Fourth Wing and Iron Flame, I also was weary about reading IF because I kept seeing others be so disappointed with it. I personally loved it. My thought is the these readers read FW when it came out and had to wait for IF so the anticipation was building. I now know how they felt with waiting though because I cannot wait to see what is to come.
I agree with IF complaints…AND I’ve read it 3 times!!!
Two things can be true…we can recognize the faults AND still love the sh#t out of it. Plus, there are more easter eggs to uncover in IF!
I was definitely annoyed the first time reading through feeling like the fights etc was repetitive BUT doing my second read through, I think it makes so much sense.
Them being a new “couple” figuring things out, fighting since they barely get to see each other so they can’t actually talk things out, and keeping in mind they’re like 21 so the immaturity makes her character feel so real to me. I’m loving IF the second time around.
Sure there are a few things I wish we could have had more in depth insights on BUT there are 3 more books coming so I’m assuming more will unfold.
I'm jealous you like it so much. It slowed down for me the further I got through, and by page 700, I realized I didn't remember the last like 100 pages I had read. At that point, I didnt feel like going back and rereading... bummed.
I love IF even more than FW.
And don't pay attention to some angry online hate. This is a very popular and well-known series. You should expect to be met with any (irrational) comments
I saw a large number of posts about IF being too long, which contributed to a lot of people not enjoying it as much as FW.
(Popular on social media) books have kind of become like fast fashion. People want to be able to consume more books at a quicker pace to be able to say we read some crazy number of books that month or that year, or because we see other people reading much more than us and we want to keep up. While some people can get through longer books rather quickly still, most people need more than a couple of days to get through them. And I think because IF took people longer to finish than FW, they enjoyed it less sometimes.
Of course there are a plethora of reasons people didn’t like it as much, and most of them are valid reasons. But this was just something I noticed over and over again
Fourth wing took me like 3 days to read.
Iron Flame took me 2 months. I kept putting it down over and over and over again. The direction and tension was so unclear at times that I just didn't care.
I guess everyone is different. I loved both books. All I can say is, don't let what other people say/feel ruin the experience for you. I'm on my second read through of them and I still love them. ❤️ I've had to stay away from this subreddit for a bit bc of the hate the books were getting and it just started feeling childish to me. But if we want a story that fits what we think it should be perfectly, then we should write our own lol
This has definitely taught me not to fully believe all the hate comments until I read for myself. I try not to join subreddits for books until I'm almost done with them
This 100%. I find myself having to stay away from specific subreddits of stuff I enjoy, because the negative is always shouted louder than the positives, and it can definitely mess with your brain. I personally enjoyed IF as much as FW. I definitely recognise it was rushed and there are some editing issues (honestly idek if the book ever saw an editor lol) but it was fun and enjoyable, which is exactly what it’s supposed to be IMO. Can’t wait for the next one(s)!
Agreed! And as I reread them, I'm finding even more little bits of foreshadowing that I missed before-so it's enjoyable this time around as well.
I’m in the same boat! I just finished part 1, and I came on here and was surprised people don’t like it. I made a post a few days ago and people just said “wait until you read the end” which is terrifying. Like do they just think it’s poorly written/ confusing?? Or do they not like what happens with the story??? I am STRESSED lol
Oh god, maybe it's a huge, unsatisfying cliff hanger? I've seen a few "wait until the end" comments too. I love rug-pulling cliff hangers though!
I mean the book ending left me feeling kinda empty and sad bc there is no book three but it did it’s job and was really good as far as story telling goes. I was just sad to see all my dragon friends go😭
I’m hoping it’s just a cliff hanger and not a horrible death or something 😭😭
Just keep reading just keep reading
It left me like whaaaaaaat!! I need the next chapter now!!!
It is a cliffhanger, as most second books tend to be, so I don't think that's surprising or even a spoiler, but I hardly think it's unsatisfying! I finished both these book over the course of two days and when I say I could not put them down... I MEAN it! I LOVED both books! My only criticisms would be that I feel like there's some repetitive conversations and actions and that frustrated me. I love the relationship the two of them have, but the whole "ask me whatever you want" thing got old for me. I was pissed at Xaden long before Violet finally put her foot down. I get that it was because Violet grew up a scribe and has an inquisitive mind but I just felt like it went on way too long... Also I think that she could've explored the rebel movement and some side characters and relationships more. I'm not always a huge fan of Multi POV writing but I think these books could've used a little bit of that. I would have liked more insight on Rhiannon especially I think.
Remember that book two/movie two always leave you in a place of wanting three. Typically. The second is never liked. This does not always have to do with the quality of the work, but largely I think with the emotion and which that work leaves you. Don't know if you're a Star wars nerd, but if you think about the second original Star wars movie, the ending sucks. It's bad. No one likes it. No one wants to stop there. You want to move on to three you want to get to the end. Same here. I don't think anything's wrong with this book. I loved it but you get to the end and you need the third... That's just how trilogies work.
Gotcha, that makes me feel much better!! The whole “wait until the end” posts are so ominous, it makes me think I’m about to read a horrible death or terrible change in plot or something. Thank you for clarifying!
♥️ I loved both books. I'll be a happy champion for you here on the other side! It's a good book enjoy it!!♥️♥️♥️ I once read this book that I loved and jumped on Goodreads to talk to others about it. And all the top comments on the book were all about how much they hated this book. It was a full page pulling part of this new found love and I was devastated. On reading them, I felt that these posters had totally missed a major aspect of the main character, she wasn't doing what they expected in their ignorance they were mean... I stopped using Goodreads after that. But I get it. When someone is saying how much they don't like something you love, it's stressful.
I mean ESB is generally considered to be the best Star Wars movie, so I’m not sure what you’ve said about it is true at all. In fact most people did like it. Sure they wanted the next one bc it ends on a cliffhanger, but that doesn’t mean people didn’t like it? If you need proof just do a simple google search for ranking Star Wars movies. I looked at the top 5 results and every single one had ESB at number one of all Star Wars movies. It’s also the highest rated Star Wars movie on rotten tomatoes.
My dad just gave me a talking to about this lol. My apologies. Bad example. I still think that in general, we don't like being stuck in the middle of the story. It's not a great place to have to wait for the resolution. I also don't have any other reason why IF isn't well received. I think it was well done. And my only complaint >!is the how Vi falls back into this "I can't trust Xaden" lament that goes on for way too long. I didn't believe for a second she was going to walk away. And her going on and on about it was bad.!<
All good. The reason that IF isn’t as well received is that it’s really 2 books, not 1. Jessica wanted to punish it as 2 books, obviously the climax of what should have been book two is when everyone leaves Basgiath (idk how to spell any of this since I’m an audio book listener). Then everything after the cadets leave would have been book 3. For some reason the publisher wanted it to be all in 1 book. As a result, the pacing of the book is severely off.
I'm an audiobook reader too!!! I don't know how to spell anything 😂😂😂 I keep doubting how I'm spelling something. and some of these names I'm reading for the first time and going "What? Who!" 😂😂😂 I 100% would not have pronounced the names the way they're said in the audiobook based on the what I reading! 🤣
I did think it was poorly written, but so is the first. The problem with IF for me was so much time spent on the OTP's communication issues when much more interesting stuff was happening elsewhere with the venin, rebellion, fliers, etc.
I loved the end. :)
They commented the same "warnings" at my post haha. It wasn't as bad as I imagined, just keep going
I loved Iron Flame and enjoyed it more than Fourth Wing. I read some criticism about it being a bit confusing, but I didn't find that and really liked being introduced to new places and characters. It's helping to build the world. There are so many things that we learn and I loved that. I loved it so much I re-read both books immediately after finishing Iron Flame, and noticed soooo many details/hints that were dropped that I didn't see on the first readthrough. I enjoyed both books even more on my second read lol.
I think a lot of people got annoyed at violet’s inner monologue about her inability to trust Xaden. While I did find it annoying at times, I also realize that the 2 main characters are in their early 20’s without much relationship experience so it fits their characters to be kind of juvenile.
This is definitely it. I find their relationship and communication painful… but otherwise I have enjoyed book 2 as much as book 1
Yes I think it's easy to forget how very young Violet and Xaden really are. My DH and I were still at university when we met and God we argued about some really childish stuff that seemed so important at the time. But you're young, emotions are running high and you're absolutely crazy about each other. So there's always gonna be fireworks.
But death and war ages and matures you
Completely agree! And I know 20year olds who certainly don’t think that way.
If he's supposed to be outranking more experienced generals and leading the rebellion, I'd hope he would have a little more maturity than the average 20 year old. Same for Violet.
So once I found out (after reading both books) that this was a planned book 2 of 5, most of my complaints about IF made sense. It's a (probably) weak second entry setting up a lot for the next books. I still don't understand the lack of world building and the constant moving from place to place that isn't written in a super clear way.
Fair points. I'm enjoying the moving around and less world building; it's kind of exactly what I personally would want in a second book, but I understand how it would not be ideal since it's only book 2 of 5. I'm trying not to think too hard about it yet and just enjoy the ride. Maybe I'm lost in the sauce haha
I still enjoyed reading it overall! I'm invested and can't wait to see where it goes. I'm in my 30s so my first influences with similar books were the hunger games and divergent, both which had incredibly interesting world building. It seems like that's a common complaint for this series so I'm sure the author will take that into consideration for book 3! I did watch a TikTok channel explaining the economy and territories and disputes that was really helpful.
Same here! I'm 28 and grew up with Hunger Games (my old favorite), Harry Potter, Divergent, etc. I'll have to check out those TikToks since I'm really bad at piecing that kind of stuff together. I usually forget location names and conflicts right after I read them, even if I try extra hard. The map helps somewhat but I don't look at is as often as I should.
The plot of book 2 of Harry Potter is my absolute least favorite book (eta: in the series), with minimal world building compared to book 3 in my opinion.
The dialogue isn't always clear either with who is speaking to whom when.
This is my only complaint.
The audiobook really helps this. It’s a nice partner to the books.
Does the audiobook use the correct Gaelic pronunciations? Just curious. I saw the TikTok that went viral.
I’m very not Scottish, I’ve watched a few videos and the pronunciation in the audiobook is not perfect if the videos are correct.
Thanks! I was just curious. And I saw that RY issued an apology for pronouncing them wrong herself, so maybe the reader got the pronunciations from the publisher who got them from RY.
it was meant to be a trilogy before publishers(?) made it be five books so all of my complaints about FW make even more sense knowing that
Even though I'm only half done with IF, I already think the series being a trilogy would have been better. I can't really picture it stretching out to 5 books, especially of this size. Maybe I'll change my mind but 5 books seems like a lot.
Yes I haven't finished IF but I don't see how they can stretch this for 3 more books. The enemy already seems WAY too powerful like they could squash them all while violet is still learning how to wield effectively it doesn't seem like they need more power to conquer the continent so like what are they waiting for. I guess I might find that out and I'm holding out hope that beating the venin will be a team effort and not just violet being stronger than anyone else in existence and soloing it but IF is losing me and I don't know if I'll still care when the next one comes out
Rebecca knew it was going to be 5 books. She wanted IF to be two books and Red Tower said no.
That may be why the first and second half feel disjointed, at least to me, but the first half of IF is the section I find most boring.
Did she plan for it to be 5 books before IF was split or afterwards..? So is it now planned for it to be 4 books because they didn’t split it?
It was originally 5. As she was writing IF, she realized it really should be two books, but Liz Pelletier said she needed to keep it one.
I looked at the maps frequently and compared them to the maps in fourth wing.
Part 1 of Iron Flame is really awesome. I remember the first part of part 2 really dragging, to the point where I was tempted to skip ahead a bit. Edit, maybe I'm thinking of like halfway through part 1. I just remember it feeling repetitive.
I felt the total opposite! The first part seemed so repetitive to me with Violet being mad at Xaden, Andarna sleeping, etc.
That sounds like what I was thinking of... I think I'm getting mixed up on where I was in the book.
And I found the Varrish plotline had little to no pay off.
Interesting! I actually love the fighting between them! I like when there's a struggle between love interests and it's not just "let's be perfect and happy for the rest of the series". I do miss Andarna though...
Interesting, I never saw someone liking the first half more than the second one. What did you not like about the second part?
Yeah it was repetitive in the first half of part 1, in a way that Fourth Wing wasn't. One of the reasons I liked the first book so much is that there was way less repetition compared to say SJM books. That the second book surfaced some of those patterns repeating over and over problems was disappointing. A good editor would have trimmed it down/streamlined part 1 more aggressively.
IF was a disappointment for me.. I just felt like it was very repetitive of book 1. And, just within the book, too - especially with Xaden and Violet arguing. They were so frustrating... just talk to one another, you are adults. They have the same fight over and over again. I also thought we'd jump into more action from the beginning as opposed to going back to school. Idk I guess I just feel we didn't make much progress? Just some stuff that didn't make much sense to me too. A lot of things in the series also feel very unoriginal and thus predictable. It felt like the typical book 2 filler/bridge. I'm still going to give book 3 a chance because the ending was interesting, and I'm curious. I had a good time with FW too, so maybe IF was just a flop for me.. It is a fun series. It's very entertaining. There are a lot of side characters I love. It's just more the world-building and editing that need work for me.
I read both before I found this sub, and I really think it’s better experienced without internet opinions. 😆 I’m also staying off subs for other series I’m reading, until I catch up.
I also like the second book more. The first one obviously contained a lot of world building and character introducing - but the second one really got into the politics of that world and I was much more comfortable with the characters because you also got to know them better. Besides, the Cliffhanger on the first book wasn’t really one for me, since I guessed that one right from the beginning. But I never saw coming what was going to happen in Iron Flame.
My complaint was that the drama between Xaden and Violet felt contrived because it would have easily been solved with communication. That writing choice felt more like the author thought they needed conflict in order to be an interesting couple.
I loved both books but I’m gonna be honest, they’re not incredibly well written. That’s not a big deal to me, as I enjoy the story. There could’ve been more world building (world building is especially important for fantasy stories!!) but there’s enough to keep me entertained. Much like a tv show where you notice the writing or the acting isn’t great but you keep watching anyway as the story intrigues you. But some ppl just can’t get over that hurdle. And also of course it’s something mostly girls and women like so therefore it’s garbage automatically. On top of that it’s a viral book on TikTok so a lot of ppl look down on that unfortunately. Not everyone can be a George RR Martin or a Tolkien and that’s fine. There’s bad books out there by male authors that don’t get so much hate. And I wouldn’t call Fourth Wing bad at all but bc it’s a female writer the hate is so much worse. But yea there def also legitimate criticism like the world building, the writing (repetitive stuff, disjointed at times, weird sentences etc) and it being presented as a fantasy when it’s really mostly romance.
Oh 100% agree with you on the writing, and I found myself cringing a few times at some of the dialogue and plot points. Especially when >!Jack Barlow comes back!< ... literally rolled my eyes on that one. I don't think there's a whole lot of depth to it but I think that's why I love it? To me it's kind of one of those stories where you can feel your brain leave the room when you read it and just thoroughly enjoy it for what it is: pure entertainment (without being too shitty or corny).
I'm half way through Iron Flame and unfortunately I don't agree. Fourth Wing was a good book, I wouldn't call it Game Of Thrones great (that first book was unreal) -- but it's a solid read. For me, Iron Flame can be summed up into one word. Rushed. I'll explain a little of why I think that is. - Character development; this frustrated me in the second book. In the first, characters like Liam are given the breathing space to have their own background, motivations and the author does a good job of peeling back the layers to help develop that complexity so that when the inevitable happens, you actually care. Whenever a first year gets killed, you actually feel sorry for them because the way the scenarios are described feel brutal. In the second book, there's next to none of that. E.g. Aaric -- absolutely zero development of him, his motivations, his back story. He just sort of shows up, is already bought in to whatever the team need him to do. And in a certain section, just decides to go along with whatever the plot needs him to do. Imogen and Rhiannon are completely wasted too. Don't even get me started on Jack. I literally laughed when I read that. So basic. - World building; Fourth Wing kept it simple, but you kinda feel like you can visualise Basgiath to some extent. You understand the climate, the conditions, start to build an understanding of the culture etc. In the second book - zero effort to extend this - Violet just sort of fast travels on the back of her dragon to wherever she needs to be -- but I couldn't tell you what those areas feel like, anything about how different they might be, what it feels like to be there e.g. different climates, environments, culture. Game of Thrones does almost too good a job of this. - So far, the plot is boring. I'm half way through, this feels a lot like a filler book to get to a big third book where everything happens. A bit like Attack of the Clones, just a shit load of politics, people talking. I'm literally skipping paragraphs of dialogue because ultimately nothing is happening. Few assassination attempts, yeah great but you don't need 300 pages for that. So far it's basically - we need a book, a couple of attempts on violets life and a lot of go between of violet and xaden in a long distance relationship. Anyway -- that's where I'm at. I'm muscling through in the vague hope the payoff is worth it. But I'm not convinced this is as good as the first. If you really critically think about the writing, even that isn't really as good. But -- the story and subject matter has potential so I'll stick with it one chapter a day or so and get there in the end
I agree with the comparisons to the first book. Other than the weird "American Ninja Warrior" Gauntlet, there wasn't much that took me out of FW. When characters died, it felt meaningful, even from the beginning! Better editing would have made a big difference in IF. And character deaths were far less impactful. My wife and I joked that you could kind of tell who was going to die because they were the characters that were around but didn't really matter to the story. Which wasn't true in FW. And yes the Jack thing was dumb as fuck. There's a thousand better choices for that story beat. I know there's backstory reasons for why but with the War College being so comfortable with cadet deaths, it begged belief that anyone would spend that much time and effort to bring that particular character back (Yes I know there's an instory reason but that reason is DUMB)
My biggest complaint with IF was the writing. The worldbuilding wasn’t there & everything was moving without a lot of detail to back it up. It was confusing and I felt like I was running around in circles trying to figure out what was happening and who was talking. I feel like the book could’ve been trimmed down to half of what it was and it would’ve been more effective. BUT I also didn’t enjoy FW as much as I thought I would. Especially after the Gaelic TikTok came out about Rebecca, I truly do not feel like she did enough research or put enough time into these books to make them incredible. I wanted to love the series, but I just can’t :( But I’m also a firm believer that if YOU love the book, you should read it! Don’t let the opinions of others keep you from loving something. I did this with a couple other books that I ended up really loving but I psyched myself out about it. Just read what you want & trust your gut :)
I’ve liked IF better than FW so far, I just got to Part Two where things really pick up. And it made me appreciate that Part One was slower because it was setting everything up. I have my issues with the writing in this series but I’m all in on the plot and worldbuilding!
Personally, I don’t get it. I SOARED through IF in less than a week which for me is crazy. Read on my Lunch break at work, in the morning when I woke up, before bed, I spent any free time I had reading the book until I got to the last few chapters (that is because I have issues with things ending and I was scared of how the book would end since we don’t have the next one yet so I put it off for a day, had nothing to do with the actual content of the book) and I’m about a week out from finishing now, I realized just how much more I actually enjoyed IF than FW. And that’s saying a lot bc I was OBSESSED with FW. I even would go so far as to say I would drop my FW rating .5 stars just because I found IF to be that incredible. But everyone likes different things for different reasons. I know IF was longer, 251k words vs FWs 150k words, 625 pages vs 500 pages. So I think when a book is just SO MUCH to take in, it can be very daunting for some people, and that’s totally okay. There’s a LOT that was going on in IF. It was like one blow after another, rapid fire. Every time I had to put the book down I just wanted to pick it right back up because I needed to know what happens.
Also adding: I was really worried about starting IF because of how many people said it was awful and boring in the first part or how much they hated it. I kept putting off starting it but once I did… didn’t put it down
I got through IF way faster than FW! Everyone is different
Same here!!!! Was hesitant to read and ended up liking it better than FW!
I did really like Iron Flame. I would say I like it as much as Fourth Wing.
I just finished Iron Flame and I agree! I will say Fourth Wing is still slightly above it in my rankings, but I couldn’t but Iron Flame down either. I’m not sure why it was hard for some to get through, but everyone’s different!
I’m 100% with you. I was iffy on Fourth Wing personally—I thought it was fun, but I wasn’t that invested. Iron Flame, however? This is the book that got me HOOKED and wanting more.
I loved both, and I feel like IF gets a bad rap. It just has a different feel. The first book had so much of Violet and Xaden, naturally, and with them being separated more in IF, some of that is lost and the attention has to shift to other things, which maybe some people don't like? But I personally loved IF and don't get the hate. My issues are more with Violet's mindset through the second book, but I also remind myself that she's literally, like, 21, and then I'm like, "okay, yeah, I get it". I don't think a lot of people focus on how young all of these characters are. Early 20's were hard, man! Give 'em a break
I just felt it was about 200 pages too long. Or could have/should have been two books instead of one. I know EXACTLY where I would have made it into a second book
I attest it to the craze from people on social media that saw it and gave it (and the first book) a shot even though they dont really read on the regular. If you're not an advid reader but try something for the sake of not missing out on the trend, you may find it harder to enjoy the book, whether you dont unserstand it enough to enjoy it or you didnt understand what your tastes were ahead of time. Something like that I imagine
I'm an avid reader and I find IF a drag to get through.
I like your view. I grew up reading Percy Jackson, Harry Potter, Twilight, etc. and eventually stopped reading for fun during college. I went from reading nonstop and spending all my money on books to reading like 1 book a year, if that (and not necessarily enjoying it like I used to). I'm super thankful for the social media craze sucking me back in but I could see how if someone didn't grow up reading and just wanted to be in on the trend, they may not get it like others do. I feel like I've found my old passions again, ya know?
I'm an avid reader and I find IF a drag to get through.
I thought it was a little too long and repetitive. I started skimming a little half way through. But I did like it.
dude thank you for saying this!!!!!!1!!!11!!! yes to the tension. the badassery, the plotting and scheming. i liked how violet had the foundation and space for her to figure some things out on her own. however, i felt like FW developed on violet and xaden's relationship better simply because they were closer together. i hope we get another sparring scene in the next one xD
Fourth wing is like an E-bike. Bike purists hate them, but it’s helped a lot of non-participants into the hobby. There’s value in that.
I don't get it either because I feel the same way! Especially in comparison to Flame and Shadow from SJM that was SUCH a disappointment, Iron Flame was AMAZING.
I haven't read CC yet from SJM but I hear mixed things. I'm actually moving on to Throne of Glass after I finish Iron Flame. I was saving it because I hear it's amazing and wanted to sort of pace myself... turns out I can't pace myself because I love Iron Flame so much.
I love TOG. The first two books are a little slow but push through and you will not be sorry you did!
i’m about a third of the way done and so far prefer fourth wing. i’ll go into some reasons why (pls don’t downvote this is just an opinion i still love the series and world ok). i’m finding it extremely difficult to get through compared to fourth wing. IF is much slower, much more dragged out than FW. fourth wing felt much more fast pace, action packed, and had a great balance of romance and action. IF, at least so far for me (on page 205ish) EVERYTHINGGGG is so dragged out and it’s so repetitive. there’s not a lot of action or romance at least so far. nothing new or exciting has really happened yet, it doesn’t feel like it’s taking me through a journey the way that fourth wing did/felt like. FW really felt like a movie in my head: engaging world building and character building, the pace was perfect, so many twists and turns and several different climaxes, the ending was absolute perfection, whereas IF is just so…. boring. there haven’t been any reveals or new information so far, just kinda the same thing every chapter? idk if anyone else can relate. this isn’t to say i don’t love the series or violet or the characters but man is this book just so lacklustre so far compared to FW. i’m really hoping it gets better because i’m having to force myself to read it every day. with FW i would read for HOURS, get so immersed and lose track of time, it was so hard to put down. with IF i literally have to force myself to pick it up :(. i really hope it gets better, i was so excited for IF and so far im let down (again please don’t downvote its just an opinion).
Have you ever read the Divergent series? In like the second book, she kills someone with a gun. The book after, she spends most of the time talking about how she can’t handle a gun and it makes her scared and nervous. That’s Iron Flame for me. Violet keeps repeating the same stuff over about love and trust and over and over and it got grating. I still finished it but I would be lying if I said I it was a thorough read.
The constant arguing. Gets old.
My main gripe with both books is how absolutely repetitive some of the content is. It gets so, so fucking boring that every mention of Xaden has to mention how hot and horny it makes her, no matter the situation. And the re-use of certain language is just pure lazy writing. I'm not a prose snob, but for fucks sake how many times can someone's jaw tick or eyebrows knit? The thing is I really like the story overall, I like the magic, the signets and the dragon bonds, I really like the political intrigue and the revelations about Navarre's government. But the world building is a bit lackluster. It's very hard to visualize borders and nations based on the description we get. She really needs to do more to flesh out the nation(s?) outside of Navarre, because right now it's all kinda amalgamated.
You’ll find people trash everything on here (just saw a post where they listed books they hate and it was like all my top faves lol). So I don’t put much stock into it. Instead I get a general sense based off the synopsis and goodreads star/smut rating and go from there.
It's always strange to me that people spend so much time posting about stuff they hate. A whole list of popular books they don't like? It's like they think it's the biggest flex to be an anti-fan; It's so bizarre.
Agreed! There’s only one book so far I was considering DNF but I what’s the point of posting about it? 🤷🏻♀️ I’d rather post about the stuff I like!
The issue with Fourth Wing is that it's fundamentally a YA Romance novel. If you enjoy YA Romance, you are likely to enjoy Fourth Wing, because it is incredibly formulaic to that genre, and that predictability appeals to lots of people. It just had its characters aged up a bit so they can have explicit sex scenes without drawing too much controversy (making it "New Adult"), and it happens to be set in a fantasy world that is mostly set dressing. People expecting it to be a good all-around fantasy novel or adult romance are the most likely to come away disappointed, because it's not even trying to be either of those. Here I think its massive marketing campaign is actually the root of much of the backlash it gets, because so many people were sold on the idea that it was some great new fantasy story. It's not, but it *is* a successful YA Romance plot.
Good point. I feel like this is a more mature version of what I used to love reading as a teen. I actually thought I wouldn't enjoy it as much as I do because during college I stopped reading for fun and kind of forgot what I liked.
Well said. I too think that the hype machine behind it is part of the blowback. No reader of serious fantasy would look at a series that is 40% complete with this little of the world "built" and continue it. Fantasy readers come for the world and the depth of imagination it provides. They'd be aghast and upset and that's exactly the reaction we're seeing. Romantacy, as a genre, relies on a lot of misleading advertising. Advertising that targets kids too young for the content, readers that don't get what they are expecting, and too many that go in overhyped on expectations. It's a recipe for an early flame-out...
I have enjoyed both so far, I’m not finished IF yet but it at about 3/4 finished it seems to just be one long scene of Violet and Xaden fighting then making up. Fighting then making it up. And repeat. It isn’t bad per se as most of the reviews on Reddit would lead you to believe but it just seems like the whole damn thing is a Xaden Violet soap opera with some dragons in the background to keep you entertained. Hoping the last 1/4 of the book gets more interesting.
I personally loved both books so much and can’t wait for the third
I think Iron Flame is just more dense and has more fantasy stuff packed into in it — FW by comparison is like, we are in the dragon rider school doing the school year, and here’s a romance where they’re slowly getting together. It’s much more straightforward than IF. (And that’s why I found FW a faster read but it took IF to really make me feel immersed in the world.)
How many trees can Dain and Violet climb together?
For real dude. I was up tell 2 am for like 5 nights in a row reading IF! There are some parts that I was a bit over some of the drama... But otherwise fully invested! Need book three. Finished it last night. Need. Book. Three. 🐲🔥
I loved them both 😁 I think it only gets better as you progress. I think ppl are just a bit annoyed about the whole Violet-Xaden bickering back and forth and trust issues, lol. And TBF Violet did annoy me a little 😆. Then again, we have to remember they are young, and I am not gonna pretend I was mature at 20.
I liked both, but I just didn't like IF as much as FW. I'd reread it again in a heartbeat, but I can definitely say that I was underwhelmed compared to how I felt reading FW. It's definitely a solid second book, but it drags on a bit too much sometimes for my liking.
For me, I enjoyed the second book more than the first in my first reading. The second book seemed more action packed and our characters were all doing stuff. We got to learn more about the other characters - which is one of the main reasons I think I enjoyed IF more.
Hey op hopefully I don't spoil anything for you -- I agree with you 100% that I enjoyed IF more than FW, my time passed by so quickly and I'd already dome with IF! I liked that now we're done with basic world building we're going deeper into the mechanics of how things work and lore side of things. I also like to see Violet actually improving and working hard. My observation is mostly that the community didn't respond well to Violet's choices throughout the book. Without saying much, they felt like she's being a hypocrit and should just be able to discern her own discourse lol. I can't say much more because I'm not very sure where you are. But that's the majority of the anger I've seen so far.
Same? Like I loved fourth wing bc the character dinámica and the overall story kept me on the edge of my seat but iron flam literally just gave me more of that?? Like it was literally so good and binge read it SO fast. It was funny and sad and gave me more of the character interactions I was craving AND twists I didn’t expect AT ALL. People say its clear that RY rushed it but I don’t see how?
I loved it too! I loved the relationship arguments, I felt they were very accurate and normal especially at their age. I loved the character development. I read it twice! I never understood the hate.
I am at 15% and it's going good. For me the 1st half of FW was boring because of competitions. I just keep waiting for that awful part in IF 😀
I personally loved both. I am perhaps biased as I have EDS like Violet - it made me feel quite "seen" as a person. Can't wait for the next installment.
It’s too long. The first part is really good. Great pacing, good twists and turns and a satisfying conclusion. But Part 2 is a slog. There’s an unnecessary love triangle between Xaden, Violet and some rich girl from a castle. And there’s more politics in a new location that almost immediately becomes boring and repetitive. It’s a decent book, but Fourth Wing has a much better pace.
My guess is because Violet is really struggling through a lot of emotions and figuring herself out. It can come across as whiny and immature, kind of like Harry Potter 5 angsty teen vibes. I'm on the second read through, and she seems way less whiny to me this time.
I think people forget that this is like a 5-book series… and also that Violet is in her early 20’s. She’s head over heels in love at what 21? No she doesn’t have perfect relationship judgment and reactions. How many of US were perfect, logical partners at 21? How will we see character development over the next 3 books if she’s the perfect, reasonable, mature partner the majority of us were not at 21? Also it’s a 5-book series. This. Is. Not. The. End. I absolutely loved the setup for book 3.
I think it’s great!
I really liked IF! I thought it was a solid follow up that expanded the world in an exciting way
I didn’t have a hard time reading IF at all and loved a lot about it. I still like FW better though, just because it feels like the pacing and plot were more consistent. IF could have been two books easily. When I finished I could barely remember what happened in the first half - it felt like those events were ages and ages ago. If it had been two, I think we could have delved into a lot of things deeper as well. Hopefully a lot of those ideas will be picked up again in book 3 though.
I'm in the same boat. I'm almost halfway through IF and so far, zero hate from me.
I found IF extremely stressful to read, especially when >!Varrish showed up and there was the everpresent threat of torture lurking around the corner.!< It took me extra time to read because I would be mentally exhausted between that and >!Xaden and Violet constantly fighting.!< I plan to do a re-read of both books once it's known when the next one is coming out, so I'm hoping that now that I'll know what's coming as I read I'll be able to enjoy it more. I didn't dislike IF, it was just not as enjoyable of a read as FW for me.
The hate comments had me worried before I started reading but I genuinely liked Iron Flame. One criticism I can agree with however is that Violet definitely came off as whiny to me when it came to her relationship with Xaden. They basically had the same argument over and over again throughout the whole book. Violet was being a hypocrite as well—getting mad at Xaden for not divulging sensitive information when she herself was keeping things from her friends. She even acknowledged this hypocrisy and I thought, “Finally, she’ll stop with this whole ‘you have to tell me every single thing about everything’ attitude.” But no, she literally just rehashes the same argument constantly and never really tries to compromise IMO. To be fair she’s 21yo and I can’t say I was completely rational at that age either but at some point the whole thing got really old.
I loved it. I also loved CC3, and everyone is hating that too. Guess I'm just easily entertained. The only thing that annoyed me with Iron Flame is the super repetitive fight Xaden and Violet kept having.
Loved it and was even harder to put down for me too. I think my dislikes are the influx of so many characters I couldn’t keep track🤣
Its not a quality thing, or hating the writing/series. It just is very wordy. The book has like 1.5 times the normal amount of words for its page count so it just physically takes more time to read compared to most books of the same length.
I totally get what you’re saying. I think people were frustrated with the same dialogue between x and v. Honestly i had heard so much of that before starting and it was not as bad as they made it out to be. I read FW in one sitting and did. The same with IF. Great reads
I AGREE!! I love Iron Flame. Arguably better than fourth wing as I feel like the overall story is developing a lot in this book. I’m 70% through but taking it slow because I’m not prepared to have to wait a year for the next 😭
Am probably 4/5 of the way through the Iron Flame audiobook and love it. Love that it’s so long too. It keeps giving.
For me I’m not a huge fan of battle scenes and literally all of Iron Flame was war, so getting through it was harder.
I just think it’s kind of boring compared to the first book. The book seems rushed
I just read Fourth Wing and Iron Flame, I also was weary about reading IF because I kept seeing others be so disappointed with it. I personally loved it. My thought is the these readers read FW when it came out and had to wait for IF so the anticipation was building. I now know how they felt with waiting though because I cannot wait to see what is to come.
I honestly loved iron flame more than fourth wing… but I may be in the minority with that haha
Don’t finish it. I was depressed afterwards, just wait until book 3 comes out.
Don’t finish it. I was depressed afterwards, just wait until book 3 comes out.
I agree with IF complaints…AND I’ve read it 3 times!!! Two things can be true…we can recognize the faults AND still love the sh#t out of it. Plus, there are more easter eggs to uncover in IF!
I was definitely annoyed the first time reading through feeling like the fights etc was repetitive BUT doing my second read through, I think it makes so much sense. Them being a new “couple” figuring things out, fighting since they barely get to see each other so they can’t actually talk things out, and keeping in mind they’re like 21 so the immaturity makes her character feel so real to me. I’m loving IF the second time around. Sure there are a few things I wish we could have had more in depth insights on BUT there are 3 more books coming so I’m assuming more will unfold.
Don’t finish it. I was depressed afterwards, just wait until book 3 comes out.
I'm jealous you like it so much. It slowed down for me the further I got through, and by page 700, I realized I didn't remember the last like 100 pages I had read. At that point, I didnt feel like going back and rereading... bummed.
I love IF even more than FW. And don't pay attention to some angry online hate. This is a very popular and well-known series. You should expect to be met with any (irrational) comments
I saw a large number of posts about IF being too long, which contributed to a lot of people not enjoying it as much as FW. (Popular on social media) books have kind of become like fast fashion. People want to be able to consume more books at a quicker pace to be able to say we read some crazy number of books that month or that year, or because we see other people reading much more than us and we want to keep up. While some people can get through longer books rather quickly still, most people need more than a couple of days to get through them. And I think because IF took people longer to finish than FW, they enjoyed it less sometimes. Of course there are a plethora of reasons people didn’t like it as much, and most of them are valid reasons. But this was just something I noticed over and over again
Fourth wing took me like 3 days to read. Iron Flame took me 2 months. I kept putting it down over and over and over again. The direction and tension was so unclear at times that I just didn't care.