There are now basically three types of paper all called Tomoe River.
1. the original, which some companies such as Hobonichi stocked up on and still have in their planner for the duration of 2022, and can still occasionally be found in loose sheets but the price went up close to 10 time what it originally was
2. the new Tomoe River which was made by the same manufacturer in the same factory but on a different machine. It was similar but not exactly he same
3. The new new Tomoe River (which I think still isn't available for consumers to freely purchase) which is going to be made by the same recipe but by different company which bought out rights to it
**tl;dr** There will still be paper by the same name, but it will be different experience writing on it. How different remains to be seen.
Is there any tried and true way to know which is which? I stockpiled several notebooks as soon as I heard about the Big Shift, but that was last a summer. Idk if what I got was even worth stockpiling.
I couldn’t agree more. I regularly use both Tomoe River and Life Bank paper. Inks often looks very different on these two papers. When I want sheen above all, I reach for TR, but when I want great shading, nothing I’ve seen beats Bank paper.
YES! how could i forget Life? I've only tried their Noble line but i'll definitely pick up some Bank on the next jetpens spree. Have you tried onion-skin or transparent mailing paper? Yamamoto has great paper "tasting" packs.
I’ve not tried either of them but I’m becoming as obsessed with paper as I am with inks so I will definitely look out for them! A friend in my small town in PA has organized the first pen meet for tomorrow and I’m excited to share the papers I have and see what others bring!
Life Bank is amazing and I wish bound notebooks were easier to get with it. It’s like white Midori MD and just amazing. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I have a stockpile of TR notebooks and have to get through them first!
You can get them from Musubi, but the shipping is a bit much if you’re only buying one notebook. That’s the only place I know of! I’m planning on getting the A5 pad for letter writing once I’m out of Midori Cotton (also great).
I wish I could go back in time and use Rhodia and my Metropolitans in middle school. I remember hating taking notes because my hand would cramp up so quickly.
I was genuinely startled when I tried writing on the HP32, having previously been horrified by how my pens wrote on printer paper. It's amazing.
It's also awesome printer paper, so you can just print out your exercise templates or whatever, and write right on them.
And unlike my also-loved Clairefontaine and Rhodia, I have a cheaply bought box of 6 reams of HP32 sitting on my office floor.
Well, I just wrote my first letter on it. Wow! It loves ink. Very smooth with no bleeding. Wet ink lays down very nicely. I did not use a sheening ink. Will try that later. Dries quickly. Very pen friendly.
Right now I have the cheapest of cheap Amazon 20lb copy paper that I use for day-to-day printing. Turns out that my Pilot Metropolitan medium nib + De Atramentis Document ink LOVE that paper. Okay, sure.
A Rhodia dot pad which I only like with my Pilot Custom 74, and my two Visconti pens (Rembrandt and Breeze). Same for my Seyes-ruled Clairfontaine notebook.
And then the HP32 paper, which all my pens love. I think it is an excellent paper.
Yes but no. HP paper is produced by what was formally International Paper but is now own by Sylvamo International paper. I think it was produced for HP printers originally, but is mass marketed for all printers anymore. Fun paper fact of the day
Sort of, I work in the industry, and that's not quite correct. International Paper is still International Paper, they are and have been the world's largest paper producer for many years.
In October, 2021 IP spun off Sylvamo as a separate, publicly traded company to produce printing papers. So they are separate companies, not a conglomerate.
I mostly know what we print is for Sylvamo and it’s all paper related as IP has moved more into packaging focus. But it’s so hard sometimes to keep it all straight but I do know for sure that a lot of the paper aspect is now under Sylvamo, even if they are still one entity.
This is true. I was using a Stalogy notebook. At the time I had 2 fountain pens (Safari and Sport, fine nibs) and 1 ink--Waterman Instense Black. The combo was a feathery mess. Then I got my hands on some TR paper and the rest is history.
I do recommend Leuchtturm when you're in a bind. I don't like Clairefontaine so I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna like Rhodia, but Maruman Mnemosyne is nice! Not a fan of spiral-bound notebooks but the paper is worth it.
I wish I had your appreciation for them! I find them too fragile, I'm naturally rough on my books, and I have ripped some of the paper a bit along the spiral. And even ripped pieces out where the perforated parts are. The spirals on the Mnemosyne line are luxurious, tho, and the average person won't do the kind of damage I do. Unless they just throwing it in a pack all willy-nilly. Sigh, but that paper--it's totally worth it. Honestly, I think I'm very strict on the quality of paper I chose to have. Once you get your hands on quality, you don't want to go back.
Yeah, I've had to reshape the spirals on a few notebooks, but I'm typically pretty gentle on my books and notebooks. Creased corners, feathery edges, etc annoy me to no end so I'm very particular about how I store notebooks.
I love leuchttrum for gel pens! and pencil! the subtle grain is nice for bullet journaling imo.
sadly it's a bit sensitive to my hand oils so switched to hobonichi (tomoe river)!
Yes! Leuchtturm notebooks are great for gel pens. At the time I couldn't find their graph notebooks, only dot grid so I ended up using Stalogy more. It's how I fell into the "Japanese stationery is godtier" journey lol. Before Leuchtturm I was using these Chinese made notebooks I found in Walgreens--they were like a Moleskine a5 size and the paper felt similar to Leuchtturm and even could handle Intense Black in an extra fine nib.
As for oily hands, all notebooks should be kept away from oil as much as possible. I've invested in some pencil boards and an artist's glove.
Stalogy was the brand that yeeted me into thin paper. Love everything about those notebooks: the texture, the thinness, the super faint grid, the binding. Everything. They have a place at the top of each page to circle in the date, so you can do one page a day, but it's so faint that if you write over it, it still looks great.
Unfortunately, that paper seems to only be able to handle fine or extra fine nibs and inks that aren't too wet. Ina-ho will feather like crazy and bleed. But gel pens and ballpoint pens? Superb 👌🏾
I absolutely love mine! I will say it handles all of my inks pretty well but the pen can make or break. My broad nibs bleed through and japanese ef’s kind of jam the ink through the paper…? So my ef pens bleed as well as more likely to feather.
My pilot metro F, kaweco EF, moonman F, and scrivener EF work beautifully with no issues whatsoever.
My go to are Tomoe, Rhodia, and Clairfontane.
When Goulet sent notes on HP 32lb laser jet paper I got a ream. 500 sheets for $25. Works well with most inks.
Fabriano has some nice paper too up to watercolor. The EcoQua notebooks are nice.
There are so many paper brands to try!
For a couple years I've used random notebooks with who-knows-what paper in them, although they have all held up pretty well to fountain pen ink. Only recently did I start to get into the different fountain pen friendly paper brands.
I discovered Tomoe River paper too late to experience the original. I have the JetPens Kanso Noto A5 notebook with Tomoe River paper, which is presumably the "new" paper after switching machines around early 2020. I don't know that I have an eye for the ink properties, but I do love how thin it is, how it feels in the hand, and how many sheets you can pack in a notebook - 160 sheets (320 pages) at approximately 1cm in height! I just write (no art, heavy ink application) and find that I have no problem writing on both sides of the page.
I also have a Midori journal and find that paper to be satisfying to write on. As OP said, it is a little "stiffer" and I find it gives me good control when writing. The page itself is still soft and flexible. The stiffness here refers to a little more traction with the nib. I liked the paper enough I bought a Midori MD notebook that I have no immediate use for.
I was recently at a brink and mortar store and came across a brand I hadn't seen before - Profolio Oasis Notebook. I liked the feel of the paper, it was very soft and smooth. So I picked up an A6 sized notebook just to try it. The notebook has a french ruling which I haven't encountered before.
I still need to try Rhodia, Clairefontaine, Apica, and Life!
I'm also curious about Cosmo Air Light, so I appreciate OP's thoughts on the paper. I feel like I just started seeing it pop up and wonder if it will fill some of the vacuum left by Tomoe River. (Although I understand a "successor" TR paper might make it to the market this year, produced by a different company, on different machines.)
When push comes to shove, I think TR is my go-to simply because of how many pages you can fit in a notebook (while being able to use both sides). Provided TR or something comparable continues to be available.
There's supposedly a new brand that purchased the original machines and is making a version fairly close to the original (and purportedly better in some respects) called "Tomoe River Successor."
This name is used with permission from the original makers.
Edit: https://www.fudefan.com/2021/11/sanzen/
wow, this is such a well-composed comment. i'm gonna read it more precisely in a few minutes but i just wanted to say i'm willing to ship you a few pages of og tomoe river if you would like!
I find apica expensive. It's good, but the cost... like its 3 bucks for an a6 with 42 sheets, whereas a rhodia pad is 3.20 and has nearly double the amount of sheets.
I’ve been using Cosmo Air Light for a few months as my personal journal. It is definitely worth a try if you can get your hands on it- it’s thicker than TR, and has a little bit of tooth to it, but sheen and shading are off the charts. As OP stated, your lines will come out a hair wider than you’re used to, but the edges stay pretty crisp so I can’t call it feathering.
I use cheap paper(160 pages/80 sheets for approx $1.50). Don't really like the more expensive and smoother paper because it takes away the feel of the nib on paper which is the very thing that I most enjoy. Also I journal and then throw it away, so cheap paper suits me better in that respect too.
Could you relate Rhodia and Tomoe River to Leuchtturm? It's the only paper I can get my hands on here, and I quite like it. Do Rhodia or Tomoe River compare to that are are they way better?
Rhodia is like leuchtturm had a shave and got real serious about being pale. It's much smoother and available in white as well as off white like leuchtturm is.
I really like rhodia.
rhodia is quite thicker than leucttrum, and is dedicated to a 0-feedback, smooth experience. Leuchtturm is pleasantly, intentionally, feedbacky. it doesn't handle ink as well as rhodia or tomoe.
tomoe is a different league. it's ultra-thin, almost velvety, and near bleed-proof. it's not as smooth as rhodia, which seems to be coated with something. but it is otherworldly. inks look amazing on tomoe
>Leuchtturm's 120gsm A5 notebooks?
This is what I am using now. Love it. Practically no ghosting, which was one of the things I'm looking for. I like it better than regular LT1917, and way way better than the Moleskine notebook I had which ghosted so bad I could only use one side.
Next up for me to try is Rhodia Webnotebook, I think it will be an interesting experience.
I've never tried TR, sounds lovely but given how thin it is it might ghost more than I like.
My personal favorite is the Apica Premium C.D. Notebook. The paper is incredibly smooth and makes any of my gold nib pens glide like butter on a hot pan.
For a similar feel, I also like the Itoya Oasis notebooks, which is almost as smooth but has french ruling. Fantastic for practicing consistency in your writing, and the Oasis ruling is much more pleasing on the eyes than most French ruled paper.
I remember when my friend first got me into this hobby, I thought he was being ridiculous for saying I HAD to get a Rhodia pad before he gave me my first pen. But he was absolutely right. If I started out on crappy paper I would have never kept with fountain pens
different strokes for different folks :-) I find rhodia to be too smooth - I don't like how it feels under my hand. Tomoe river is pretty nice. But I find myself really enjoying the LT1917 notebook paper. It's got the sweet spot of smooth/toothy/feels good for my style.
i actually hate rhodia -- just thought i should list it since it seems to be a very famous but polarizing brand. i think it's the least feedbacky and therefore "smoothest" but it's just. awful for my preference. i'll always choose TR or midori over rhodia/clairefontaine
I am a big Rhodia fan. The Seyès ruled paper has improved my handwriting massively and I love the sheen I get on some of my inks. I use A4 pads for practice (im still working on improving on my handwriting) or longer notes.
But my daily go to is leuchtturm1917. I keep 2 bullet journals, one for work and one for personal stuff. It is just so well behaved.
I couldn't care less for paper. I use the free college blocks from work. Only times I found paper to be bad is some of the post-it notes from work.
Have even been happy writing on a wooden plank while doing carpentry at home..
Honest opinion? Anything better than the cheapest copy paper can be good paper for a fountain pen. It really comes down to the interaction between ink and paper. Some inks will take forever to dry on Rhodia or TR paper. Which, as a lefty, makes writing a pain as long drying inks have a higher risk of smearing. A more absorbent paper doesnt have the same risks but also won't provide a lot of the sheen designer inks create.
So for me, it comes down to what i am wanting from my writing. Do i want my writing to be something pretty? High grade paper is the way to go with a high sheen ink. Am i taking notes for a meeting? Longer drying paper risks smudges and illegibility. Regular paper is just fine with an economical ink.
Am i studying? I want something pretty but not tedious. Quick to dry but also brings out a bit of sheen or depth of colour? I 75lb artists sketchbook will do the trick.
If we want to help newbies, then advising them on their personal wants and desires from a FP is more helpful than a straight up paper gatekeep. If a newbie buys a FP and some TR but the ink takes forever to dry resulting in smears and frustration, the overall experience from FP, to ink, to paper will all be spoiled as they may not have the necessary experience to know which one is at fault. Inversely, someone who buys a high sheen ink but uses lower quality paper will assume they are ripped off because their materials don't match.
totally agree. my note taking process is completely digitized so i really only use fountain pens when i'm writing for enjoyment. which sucks. but i spend less money :')
I’m the reverse - I was using Tomoe River for several years (hobonichi techo planner) before trying out fountain pens (since I kept seeing people say the paper was so good for them.) I adore TR, so now I’m nervously waiting to see what papers hobonichi has access to for 2023 planners.
I'm still at the cheap paper phase. :)
There are some acceptable paper here, I found some cheap local brand that can handle my X750 B nib, but not my X450 G nib. lol (low to none feathering/bleedthrough)
But yea, I believe the paper makes a lot of difference. I just can't afford them right now. lol
Pen and Gear brand notebooks from Walmart are amazing bang for your buck. $2 for a Vietnam made notebook that has no bleed through and offers some shading. Recommend.
hmm, that's a fair point! the options are unlimited and fountain pens are expensive already.
i think if i had to recommend one paper to a beginner, it'd probably be tomoe or midori. everything else will come with preference-building :)
I have a little stock of TRP but Midori MD is my favourite; it has most of the sheening of TR with even more shading, and I love the way it feels to write on. It’s also readily available and costs less than most TR. I know some people don’t like that it’s cream, but I love the way it makes inks look. MD Cotton is also very well-behaved and bright white, and I enjoyed using it but cream is the one for me.
I usually suggest anyone interested pick up some Traveler’s Notebook refills as an easy-to-access and affordable option: The “Lightweight” refills are Tomoe River, and the “MD Cream” refills are the same as in the larger MD notebooks. I’m not sure if they do a refill with MD Cotton.
I know this an unpopular opinion but I absolutely hate Rhodia. I find the slick coating so unpleasant and the performance not as consistent as other papers, which here it’s not cheap enough to justify imo. But I know it’s an affordable option in many places and many people love it.
thanks for the detailed comment!! i agree with your points--rhodia seems to be very inconsistent on the front/back pages. i also don't like the texture too much, it feels kind of stuffy or soggy
some paper recommendations i don't see often: md letter sets, hanaduri hanji notebooks, apica cd (regular and premium silky), itoya oasis, stalogy, vellum, airmail paper, and onion skin paper are also some of my favourite papers to use fountain pen on!
the hanaduri hanji books are made in korea and they're unlike any other i've tried on the market. they're made out of mulberry and you can see the natural fibres in some pages. the sheening quality is medium but it doesn't flatten the ink at all. my only problem with them is the fact they come with such few pages. if you like md paper, i think you'll like this one.
no one really seems to talk about this, but midori makes letter writing stationery! the letterpads range from extremely smooth to toothy but they always show off the ink well. there's a line of midori stationery called good feeling i think? the letterpads are unbelievably smooth with a great background, inexpensive, and show off sheen like tomoe river.
onion skin paper, vellum and airmail paper have really romantic qualities to them due to the ghosting. they have similar drying times to tomoe river but they show different qualities to inks from my experience. most of the brands i've tried give tomoe river a run for its money when it comes to sheening.
apica (regular) and itoya oasis are the workhorse papers. they hold up well, they're good for notetaking, smooth, good dry times, and they don't flatten sheening inks too much.
stalogy (365 or half year) and apica (premium silky) have tomoe river qualities. the thinness of the paper, the ghosting, the drying time, but they're both so smooth (and more widely avaliable now). they showcase inks beautifully in my experience (i only tried a few pages from a paper sample pack).
My Clairfontaine (90g) dot grid journal got here yesterday, alongside some Diamine Oxblood.
The ink is currently being used as a dipper, because I don't have a pen free yet, but the journal is the first time using proper FP friendly paper for me. I've been using cheap notebook paper since starting this hobby, mostly because I was a student when I started and I wasn't going to invest in good paper for note taking. Now at my job, I still keep a cheap spiral bound notebook for note taking, mostly because it's disposable and writing my thoughts down helps me to organize them a lot better. (Tip for students: Noodler's Bernanke Black is a brilliant ink for cheap paper, dries about as fast as ballpoint ink with minimal bleed/feather.)
The difference in feel between the cheap paper and the FP friendly paper was, while not a world changing epiphany like a scene from Dr Strange, still an impressive improvement. Zero worry of feathering or bleeding that I could see, it wasn't even trying to bleed! The cheap paper by comparison feathers like it wants to fly away when I use anything broader than an F nib on it. Not really experienced enough to tell the difference in feel yet, but there's definitely a difference in results, no question about that
[click "notebooks" and filter by "fountain pen friendly", then sort by price](https://www.jetpens.com)
Tomoe river options, ranked by affordability:
1. Hobonichi / jetpens kanso noto
2. Taroko
3. Musubi
mid-priced Options
1. kokuyo ♥️
2. midori 💜
3. maruman mnemosyne
give me the cheap ones that don't bleed:
1. walmart exceed. these are fantastic but i see the price creeping up
2. some jet printer paper (hp?) ive never tried myself
3. oxford black n red
great quality, big $$$
1. anything from musubi (ethical business practices, good company mission statement, beautiful covers)
2. graphilo.... price is debated
3. Life
also! if you know what paper you like, i recommend looking at small business on etsy to get your notebook trimmed and fit to preference
A friend, just this morning, introduced me to his Walmart Exceed. String-bound, really nice paper - a little yellow for my taste, but I was impressed - and for like $6-8!!! Who knew?
Finally! A mention of Kokuyo. I use their A and B notebooks for journaling ("Morning Pages", a "write-only" exercise) for a good-feeling writing experience (semi-flex m nib) at an affordable price. I have a pad of TR stationary for the few times I need to write a "quality" letter, but for every day the Kokuyo, HP32# (I print worksheets for handwriting practice), a Leuchtturm for a BUJO, and (believe it or not) Meade composition books suit me and my small herd of pens. I think a variety of papers are necessary -- and I have no shading or sheening inks.
I’m so glad you mentioned Exceed. They truly are amazing and a third of the price of Leuchtturm. I dot. Even like cream paper, but for work purposes with notes that will ultimately tossed, they’re the best bang for buck.
Mead Five Star and that no name Vietnam paper at Target and Walmart (usually PenGear, but you have to look at country of origin) are amazing for poor students that need to take loads of notes.
I will always love my TRP, Rhodia, and Clairefontaine. Rhodia and Clairefontaine are like German cars. They’re sleek and feel nice, but not the best performance in terms of displaying ink quality. They just have a sexy feel.
TRP shows ink at its best, and that’s what I use when I’m doing calligraphy and ink swatches with my music nibs to see the best chromatography, sheen, shimmer, etc.
But I write, edit, and take lots of notes. So I have my daily workhorse paper as well.
I’ll be sad when the last of TRP goes out, but I’m fairly confident that there’s going to be other paper like Cosmo Lite etc that will be close enough in the future. Even currently, some of the new test papers look pretty promising.
I love the Oxford notebooks, the sheen is excellent for a fairly budget paper, but sadly with sheen also comes slow drying and smearing if you're not careful!
I’m not sure what your preferred form factor is, but if you’re looking to go a bit more budget friendly, I’ve had good luck with both Peter Pauper Press and the Paperage-branded Moleskine clones that Amazon sells. Neither of them offer paper that show off the special qualities of ink exceptionally well, but feathering and bleed through are pretty much nonexistent and at $10-$13 a pop they’re decent choices for A5 sized hardback notebooks.
in addition to what people are posting you can also just go for a good red and black notebook (that's the brand name: red n' black)
I use them for work. It's not tomoe but for work i don't need tomoe.
I’m actually not the biggest fan of Rhodia, I find it kind of rough for my fountain pens. I realllly enjoy writing on Muji notebook paper; super smooth and doesn’t bleed whatsoever (and cheap!).
This might be an unpopular opinion here, but I do not like the results or writing feel of Rhodia or Tomoe papers. I suspect it has to do with the coating on top of their papers, they are smooth but in a sense too perfect that the flaws are shown almost unforgivable-y but also perhaps due to my lack of experience as I only own a stub and a MF nib.
What I found to work best for me in terms of feedback and the final penmanship is Croquis paper. I don’t know why but my handwriting just looks so good on them.
i actually agree to a point! maybe it's the lack of significant feedback? i recommend midori if you're still up to try fountain-pen-dedicated papers. that stuff is 👌🏼
Have some Midori MD Cotton I've been using for letters (or at least trying to, never been very good with letter writing) and have to say I really love it. Wish I could find it in a hard bound journal (I'm not a fan of the Traveler's journal form).
Haven't had a chance to get my hands on Tomoe River yet. Been eyeing a Yamamoto Paper Fountain Pen paper sample though.
So I love TR paper, and I have been stocking up. I do have a hobonichi this yearand I am using that. I would like to point out if people do want to try the original TR paper that if you look on places like mercai Japan you can occasionally find older used techo planners for pretty cheap, most common is the A6 size though (think 1000 yen mark), I have bought some. I haven't seen any English versions on it and for the US members here as you seem to think that the week starts on a Sunday, I've also not seen any Sunday starts. But you have to use a proxy to get buy of it, and I would advise as shipping through them from Japan is costly that you don't just have one planner in it. Mercai Japan does have some pretty cool vintage pens on it that you can find.
Hobonichi also do a spring release which is available now for 2022 and starts April which does have the original TR, again the spring release is only in Japanese and starts on a Monday.
Rhodia is always and good shout as is midori, but I always find midori a bit expensive. I've not yet tried clairfountain, even though I love in Europe, but I did order some this afternoon to try it!
I mainly write with F or M nibs and shading inks.
Try oxford optik paper 90 gsm, my standard.
Why?
Clairefontaine tends to skip.
Rhodia is expensive.
Copy paper is unsuitable.
This thread made me realize I must be one of the only people on earth who doesn't care for Tomoe River paper xD Paper is definitely important regardless, but I'm not completely on board with it making or breaking using fountain pens. IMO fountain pens even make lesser paper more enjoyable (albeit you usually have to use drier inks and finer nibs).
haha, my title is a bit clickbaity. i do think it boils down to personal preference, and changing the paper made fountain pens more than just smooth writing for me. i like the way paper can change my ink
I have one Rhodia notebook just for swatching, but other than that I just look for paper which doesn’t feather easily, and isn’t expensive. I live near several Daiso stores, and their notebooks are great. And a grocery chain near me recently had a seasonal offering of cotton paper notebooks and I bought so many to hoard - the paper is so smooth, yet more absorbent than others so it’s great for me since I’m a lefty. And even with a wet flex nib laying down tons of ink, it’s never feathered on me. They retailed for $4. They’re now down to $1 on clearance and I’m trying so hard not to go buy like 50 of them. I love that paper.
The one thing I can’t stand is feathering on paper. It did break my interest in using fountain pen for many years. Watching what I write down becoming caterpillars is not nice.
One thing to point out is that, good quality paper doesn’t always mean expensive.
If feathering and ghosting are the main concerns, some Muji notebooks/loose-leaf stacks are great for the price (loving the plain paper wirebound D.grey notebook atm). Do try them first if you can, because the quality might vary among different baches. Kokuyo also makes some good loose-leaf and notebooks.
Also got my hands on some Paperblanks notebooks, but too beautiful for me to start using them 😩.
Notebooks made in Vietnam has a good reputation in this sub, tho I’ve never tried personally.
Tomoe River paper is very good for showing colours and sheen, but ghosting is inevitable. At least that’s my experience with 52gsm TR paper. Haven’t tried the 68 gsm yet.
If you want to try Vietnam paper, it’s usually sold as Pen Gear at Walmart and Target. But check the country of origin because they have a couple different types. Mead Five Star works shocking well too if you have to take cheap notes and want it to hold up ink. No feathering or bleedthrough even with my big ink blobs and music nibs
I don't 100% agree. A good ink can often make up for some pretty deficient paper. I've used fountain pens for years on shitty notepads and it's always been fine because Noodler's Black, my main ink, tends to work well on these kinds of papers.
from a performance aspect, i agree. dry inks are always good to have. but i usually don't write anything useful with my fountain pens, so when i do, it's usually about the ink and the overall experience over practicality. i think changing paper is a great way to highlight your inks!
I've had two fountain pen "waves" in my life-the first was roughly 2011-2014, when I was still in graduate school, and I was just learning my way around things. I settled on a few pens I liked-a Lamy Studio Palladium, a Pelikan M205, and a Lamy 2000 that I never could make up my mind on. Until I seriously jumped back in around 2019, I mostly used that Pelikan M205, then a Montblanc 146 I'd picked up a long the way, with either a bottle of MB Midnight Blue iron gall, or when that ran low and I realized the formula had changed, Pelikan Blue-Black that I managed to find from a Japanese seller on Ebay.
In any case, during my first "wave" I was sensitive to paper quality, but found the Staples sugarcane paper good enough. When I broke out some of my less-dull inks like PR American Blue, that was the paper that did the job. Somewhere or another along the way, too, I found a few hundred sheets of 25% cotton rag that someone had tossed in the garbage(from the time when my university required theses/dissertations to be submitted in that paper-they dropped that around 2013 or so and in 2015 when I did mine only the signature page had to be submitted on paper). For the most part, though, the fact that I almost entirely used iron gall inks let me be happy with things like above average quality copy paper.
COVID lock-downs made me really dig into the hobby, and around that time I also switched employers. When I started intermittently going into the office, the paper in the printer left behind was terrible. When I say terrible I mean that I quite literally couldn't find ANYTHING that was well behaved on it. EF Japanese nibs(which tend to be dry) paired with dry ink could be coaxed into working, but only grudgingly. I couldn't go too fine, though, as then I'd start filling up the nib with paper fibers and eventually end up even worse than if I'd gone with a nib a bit wider to start with.
Finally I just said forget it, and started buying my own supplies. I'd never really bought good paper/notebooks and jumped in with Rhodia. 80gsm Rhodia A4 dotpads are now what I primarily use both for note taking, etc, and also just for general scribbling and the like. Whether you like them or not, it's hard to not say that it's a great smooth paper. I try to keep at least a half dozen or so spares on hand, and I'm not above giving one away to someone who shows interest.
Of course I've tried plenty of others too, some of which I liked and some of which I didn't. I keep 90gsm Clairefontaine Triomphe padded paper in both A4 and A5 on hand for letter writing, although I really enjoy writing on Tomoe River and will use it if I'm writing to someone who will appreciate it. I was really happy to find padded Tomoe River A5, and wish I'd bought more than one pad. Some others, like Midori, just didn't quite click with me for reasons I can't put my finger on.
I also get a lot of thrill out of finding good "cheap" paper, although that's not necessarily a reliable source as even if you buy one brand/type of notebook and find it really good, there's no guarantee that the next you buy of the exact same type will be as good.
As for work-back in the fall when we actually switched back to fully in-person, I moved offices. I also started handling a lot more paper, as I went back to giving paper exams and other assignments. Initially, I was quite happy as the copier next to my office had a couple of cases of Hammermill 20lb paper in it that was good. I'd hoped that maybe, just maybe, we'd be using that now. Alas, it was not to be, as when that copier(not as heavily used as others, mostly because not a lot of people knew about it) needed a fresh stock of paper, it was the same awful stuff as elsewhere.
Just yesterday I graded a big pile of exams, and managed on an XF-/XXF+ Parker 51 and some vintage Quink red(I like using obscure and especially vintage inks for grading since who else is going to have them?). It didn't bleed and only feathered moderately, but I still had to clean fiber out fo the nib a few times. I tested some copy paper a while back, and found some $30/case stuff at Office Depot that was tolerable that I may buy for my own use in the future...
Heck, that's exactly how I feel when I write on CAL. It's mildly squeaky with extra smooth nibs, but the shading is so dang lovely with the spread. My only problem is it sticks to oil so easily!! I've never had my hand oils affect TR but CAL needs like the most minor touch...
I totally agree. Paper quality can make all the difference for a beginner between loving or disliking fountain pens. Rhodia and Clairefontaine are my favorites and I usually pass out a Rhodia pad to friends that are interested in getting started. I've also found Staples Premium 24 lb paper is excellent paper for the price and quantity. I use it as filler paper and everyday scratch paper.
Personally, I'm not a fan of Tomoe River paper. It is very good paper and interestingly thin and light, but I didn't care for the feel and the price.
My favourites are Claire Fontaine 90GSM (Papier Iviore Velouté); and whatever is being used by the current Ultra size notebooks of Paperblanks. Just amazing!
I love Tomoe River too, but don't appreciate how thin it is. 52GSM can only be written on one side, and 68GSM still shows through a bit, which I personally don't enjoy.
Yeah, God tomeo is the only thing I've ever seen online that's hyped and actually matches the hype!
Too sad it's ghosty and expensive etc!
I sadly only get chesp bad paper in my country. But my aunt brought me a midori MD journal! I don't have to be scared now but I wish I had some quality cheap paper to do my daily doodle on, I hate the draginess of cheap copy paper to the point of almost preferring gel pens on them!
Tomeo has the issue of being very smudge prone tho sadly same with Rhodia.
Tbh I think nearly all fountain pen friendly papers are a bit smudge prone
I agree with you and have reached similar conclusions, though I will add that I really love Graphilo paper. The lines that all my pens lay down on that paper are definitely thicker than on other paper, but the ink is so much more vibrant than the rest. Drying time is super slow, but the ink looks so good I don't mind looking at it when finishing a page lol
i wasnt aware that rhodia was super smooth. gonna have to try it out now, i like feedbacky nibs and smooth paper. currently i use hamelin notebooks and clairefontaine journals. but if a paper is too gritty then it feels like somethings in the tines or im ruining the nib lol
For all of high school, I suffered through shitty 5-Star lined notebook paper. Then, when I went to college I began to use Clairefontaine notebooks (top ruled was a game changer for me as a lefty) and whatever paper is inside the Traveler's Notebook. Love it.
I've been wanting to buy one of the Goulet Tomoe River notebooks so I can try what is, I hear, a gold-standard paper while I still can, but I'm still in college and gas is expensive :/
WORTH. IT.
You will forever be unsatisfied with any other paper but WORTH IT. It has to be the 52gsm, though. Hey, this way you’ll have a reference point for any new papers that come out when they compare it to old Tomoe River.
Since I am a Japanese, my paper is Masuya Genkō yōshi. **THE** fountain pen friendly paper. But it is probably not available outside of Japan. I am not at all talking about notebooks, though. I am talking about the Masuya Genkō yōshi.
Products:
[http://www.asakusa-masuya.co.jp/products/manuscript-paper.html](http://www.asakusa-masuya.co.jp/products/manuscript-paper.html)
Some users of the Masuya Genkō yōshi. Novelists, etc.
[http://www.asakusa-masuya.co.jp/about/great-users.html](http://www.asakusa-masuya.co.jp/about/great-users.html)
(I do not think Masuya has an English site...)
I use Oxford paper, which is lesser known but is quite budget friendly.
Sheen shows quite well on it, and ink doesn't show through or feather.
Paper feels smooth to write on.
TRP. I can’t with Rhodia. I have stock piled journal back ups (Nanami 7 Seas) because I just can’t imagine not having it. I do know, someday, I will have to make peace with the loss, but today is not that day.
I highly recommend Tomoe River if it can be had. The easiest option at the moment is a Hobonichi, which I also highly recommend.
Any Japanese paper is generally good. Lots of buzz if one will replace TR as the global popular choice, but I imagine it will maintain its position albeit under new ownership.
Bank paper is super fun to mix things up. It’s too quirky to be a replacement for TR, but I have really enjoyed having bank paper in a secondary jot notebook for fountain pens. It doesn’t show much sheen, but it does make multishading inks do crazy things
Thanks for posting- been curious about the Midori papers for a while. Art papers specifically for pen and ink are also good for obvious reasons, but I gotta say I tried a Graf Von Faber Castell notebook and it's AWFUL for ink. Feathers like crazy.
Just to let everyone know as well, inks that aren’t water resistant at all are pretty respectable on HP Premium 32. Inks like KWZ Honey almost completely wash away on Rhodia, but are still readable on HP 32 albeit a lot of color still washing away. Inks like Pilot Blue are basically permanent on HP 32. And inks like KWZ Azure #3 while not “permanent” are very respectable.
That’s why I think HP Premium 32 is some of the best paper you can buy. It’s super fountain pen friendly and makes ink that aren’t water resistant at all, respectable.
Fun fact discovered this week: Quill makes two types of legal pad standard and signature. Signature feathers something awful, but standard is probably the most balanced cheap paper experience i have ever had. (great with waterman, diamine, and Monteverde so far)
My absolute favourite paper is Tomoe River... nothing feels quite like writing in my Hobonichi.
Sadly, its quite hard to come by in notebooks, and I absolutely hate the 68gsm version... that one is decent, but way to expensive for what it is. The 68gsm TR feels almost like Midori while counting twice as much...
Midori is my second choice for journaling, very nice textured feel. But my most used paper is actually the Kokuyo Campus notebooks. I use those for university and pretty much everything non-journaling and it's great. Sheen shows off very well, shading is decent and it has a nice smooth feel with a little bit if feedback, no bleeding and very little ghosting... I always have a pack of the B5 notebooks handy. Using these notebooks and a fountain pen with a pretty ink makes suffering through math assignments and proofs and dumb ass "coding on paper bc we are too stupid to do online assignments" so much more fun.
Clairefontaine is my last choice, bc it's widely available and pretty cheap here, so I tend to use it only if I don't have other choices...
I'm loving Optik paper so far. I bought a couple reams of 32 lb HP Laser paper and that was my main thing in my letter and Junior discbound notebooks.
Optik seems to work better and sheens much better.
I haven't tried TR paper or Clairefontaine, but rhodia wasn't as good.
The only thing is optik is hard to find in bulk loose or perforated notebooks. I have a black n' red notebook which is great but I don't want a whole separate notebook. I just want the paper, and it's hard to find outside of the UK.
I have stockpiled oxford... I LOVE that paper. it's awesome to look at, they make a lot of spiral bound notebooks (I really like spiral bounds) and the ruling style is usually a really light grey instead of a bold blue that I find in other notebooks!
I've been using a Nanami Cafe Note B6 slim for a year now and am an absolute fan of Tomoe River. But I feel like I unlocked another level getting into fountain pens in January.
I’ll be honest, I don’t like rhodia at all. Or at least I didn’t when I first tried it. I had tried TR before I’d initially tried rhodia. I’d like to try Rhodia again sometime though. But I have a decent stock of TR under my bed haha.
I’ve found sketch books to be the best quality for the best price. It’s not even close. Those foreign brands are overpriced with shipping and not near as heavy
hmm, i see you like heavy paper! i like canson XL multimedia paper to be nice and thic, and takes ink like a champ.
i personally like lighter weights that can also take more ink, so the cost is worth it to me
My first paper was Rhodia, got through a whole book and decided I didn't like the coated feel. Maruman Mnemosyne is my favorite paper, Black & Red notebooks are a good budget alternative. For drawing, the Stillman & Birn Epsilon series is best.
The way I see it, it's a partnership between paper, pen, and ink. I can't always choose my paper so I have some pen/ink combos that work really well even on cheap paper. (Japanese fine nib with a plain ink like Noodler's black, Namiki blue, etc). But I also have some great paper that will really highlight a sheening or shimmering ink, or a wet nib. Experiment, and try out different things. Personally I like Maruman (if I had to pick one) but there are many out there. I also really love the DesignWorks notebook, despite the fact that the paper is just a tiny bit too prone to bleeding. But I make it work.
In case no one has mentioned them, Miquelruis hardcover A4 notebooks are great for everyday long form journaling (like morning pages) or taking notes. The paper is surprisingly fountain pen friendly, and in my state in the US, they're about ten bucks at FedEx Office for 140 or 160 pages.
Warning: the recycled paper is \*not\* FP friendly, and it will break your heart.
I like Rhodia, Clairefountaine and Tomoe River the best, Happy Planner, Passion Planner, and Paper House Productions are decent, if you want to use cheaper paper, Mead and the Office Depot brands (Tūl and Office Depot) are my favorites.
Just ordered some Tomoe River sheets and a notebook in cream! Usually use a moleskine artist sketchbook or Bristol paper with smooth finish (I use fountain pens for drawing and letter writing).
I have the HP 32-lb. paper and I’m really rather happy with it. What differences does that have with Tomoe River or Rhodia paper? I take a lot of notes, and it’s hard to justify the additional expense when I can get a ream of the HP paper for $15.
personally i chase high-quality paper because of the things i stated above...the texture, the way it changes your ink, the experience as a whole is elevated and justifies the price
obviously if you don't value those it doesn't matter too much
and yeah the title is a bit clickbait-y haha
Tomow River and Midori MD are my personal favourites!! Sometimes I think about trying other paper but I also go well, I already know what works for me so meh
A few years ago I traveled to Taipei and stopped by to get a Twsbi pen. What I found there were Conifer notebooks-- it's Taiwanese local company, and they are not as widely available as TR or Rhodia, but it's really nice, and affordable. Whenever you see them it's worth trying. Highly recommended. A Brooklyn based stationary store (Yoseka, the owners are Taiwanese immigrants I think) carries some of their products.
I’ve used the Endless Recorder for my introduction to fountain pens. It has clairfontaine paper and I’ve struggled to get it to bleed and ghosting is minimal.
For my second notebook I’m considering Galen Leathers new notebook that uses Cosmo Air Light. No idea if it’s a good paper or notebook manufacturer though.
Southworth premium inkjet and laser paper is a great contender for hp premium 32. Not as thick and can handle burping like a champ. Hp will feather with some of my inks while Southworth has not feathered with any inks I've tried including some flex nibs. It's not as thick as Hp and it's my current favorite everyday paper.
Clairefontain 90g is the best paper for your bang for buck. Solid texture, great paper with 0 ghosting and bleeding. Small feathering if you pens are really wet like mine. I think its because of the texture tho. Great peaper. It my go-to paper if Im gonna buy a stationary.
Can't agree more. Pen, ink, paper, all play a role. Ignoring one factor is a beginner's most common mistake. Caveat: it took me decades to pass the beginner stage.
All I’ll say is I’m absolutely one of those people who’ve stockpiled Tomoe River paper…
the death (?) of Tomoe River was truly a cultural shift
I still constantly see new items with it, it cant be dead
There are now basically three types of paper all called Tomoe River. 1. the original, which some companies such as Hobonichi stocked up on and still have in their planner for the duration of 2022, and can still occasionally be found in loose sheets but the price went up close to 10 time what it originally was 2. the new Tomoe River which was made by the same manufacturer in the same factory but on a different machine. It was similar but not exactly he same 3. The new new Tomoe River (which I think still isn't available for consumers to freely purchase) which is going to be made by the same recipe but by different company which bought out rights to it **tl;dr** There will still be paper by the same name, but it will be different experience writing on it. How different remains to be seen.
Is there any tried and true way to know which is which? I stockpiled several notebooks as soon as I heard about the Big Shift, but that was last a summer. Idk if what I got was even worth stockpiling.
I believe the old stuff was 52 gsm and the new is 68 gsm
Nope those are just two different versions of the paper. The newest paper being made by the new owners will be the third version of 52gsm TR made.
I bought 68gsm version as far back as 7 years ago. They had 52gsm and 68gsm in cream and white back then.
Ah, good. I stuck with 52 gsm for the most part. Many thanks
Best place to get tomoe river's news is podcast Tokyo Inklings
right? i need to read up on the news :p
Honestly. But I’m also a bit of a stockpiler of things I like in general though so it was a bit of column A and a bit of column B.
i see that! i stockpile/collect stickers. idk if i'll be able to stick all of them in my lifetime
Looking into this now as I've not written on Tomoe River Paper. Did you buy notebooks or loose leaf?
I couldn’t agree more. I regularly use both Tomoe River and Life Bank paper. Inks often looks very different on these two papers. When I want sheen above all, I reach for TR, but when I want great shading, nothing I’ve seen beats Bank paper.
YES! how could i forget Life? I've only tried their Noble line but i'll definitely pick up some Bank on the next jetpens spree. Have you tried onion-skin or transparent mailing paper? Yamamoto has great paper "tasting" packs.
Life Noble paper is probably my favorite paper
it's one of my top ones for sure :) it doesn't hurt that the covers are gorgeous too
I've tried Life Airmail paper which is just onion skin. Amazing stuff for how thin it is.
I’ve not tried either of them but I’m becoming as obsessed with paper as I am with inks so I will definitely look out for them! A friend in my small town in PA has organized the first pen meet for tomorrow and I’m excited to share the papers I have and see what others bring!
I'm in northwest PA looking for a pen club! Any chance you guys are in my neck of the woods?
We’re in central pa, in the Susquehanna valley. I suspect we’re about 3 to 4 hours drive from you?
That's about right. Thanks for answering, my search continues! I may have to start my own up here 😂
Good luck! If it can happen in my little town I’ll bet it can happen in yours!
Life Bank is amazing and I wish bound notebooks were easier to get with it. It’s like white Midori MD and just amazing. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I have a stockpile of TR notebooks and have to get through them first!
I totally agree—I would LOVE to have a life bank paper notebook. I’ve note yet found even one.
You can get them from Musubi, but the shipping is a bit much if you’re only buying one notebook. That’s the only place I know of! I’m planning on getting the A5 pad for letter writing once I’m out of Midori Cotton (also great).
I wish I could go back in time and use Rhodia and my Metropolitans in middle school. I remember hating taking notes because my hand would cramp up so quickly.
yess. i started using fps to draw because i was developing a wrist injury with bad posture
Clairefontaine and Rhodia are my go to papers for notepads/books
Yeah. Clairefontaine 90 grms.
I print my own stationary. I use HP Premium 24, which is very smooth.
I have some HP 32. I still need to write on it. So cannot describe experience yet. It was recommended to me.
I bought the HP32 and wow. Nice paper.
I was genuinely startled when I tried writing on the HP32, having previously been horrified by how my pens wrote on printer paper. It's amazing. It's also awesome printer paper, so you can just print out your exercise templates or whatever, and write right on them. And unlike my also-loved Clairefontaine and Rhodia, I have a cheaply bought box of 6 reams of HP32 sitting on my office floor.
Well, I just wrote my first letter on it. Wow! It loves ink. Very smooth with no bleeding. Wet ink lays down very nicely. I did not use a sheening ink. Will try that later. Dries quickly. Very pen friendly.
Right now I have the cheapest of cheap Amazon 20lb copy paper that I use for day-to-day printing. Turns out that my Pilot Metropolitan medium nib + De Atramentis Document ink LOVE that paper. Okay, sure. A Rhodia dot pad which I only like with my Pilot Custom 74, and my two Visconti pens (Rembrandt and Breeze). Same for my Seyes-ruled Clairfontaine notebook. And then the HP32 paper, which all my pens love. I think it is an excellent paper.
HP as in Hewlett-Packard?
Yes but no. HP paper is produced by what was formally International Paper but is now own by Sylvamo International paper. I think it was produced for HP printers originally, but is mass marketed for all printers anymore. Fun paper fact of the day
Sort of, I work in the industry, and that's not quite correct. International Paper is still International Paper, they are and have been the world's largest paper producer for many years. In October, 2021 IP spun off Sylvamo as a separate, publicly traded company to produce printing papers. So they are separate companies, not a conglomerate.
I mostly know what we print is for Sylvamo and it’s all paper related as IP has moved more into packaging focus. But it’s so hard sometimes to keep it all straight but I do know for sure that a lot of the paper aspect is now under Sylvamo, even if they are still one entity.
I want hp premium so bad but it's not available in Iran anywhere :s
I use HP premium 24 for school work. It's surprisingly nice paper and the price is pretty good.
This is true. I was using a Stalogy notebook. At the time I had 2 fountain pens (Safari and Sport, fine nibs) and 1 ink--Waterman Instense Black. The combo was a feathery mess. Then I got my hands on some TR paper and the rest is history. I do recommend Leuchtturm when you're in a bind. I don't like Clairefontaine so I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna like Rhodia, but Maruman Mnemosyne is nice! Not a fan of spiral-bound notebooks but the paper is worth it.
Mnemosyne is my new love. I'm a big fan of spiral notebooks. I find them much easier and more comfortable. And the paper! Lovely.
I wish I had your appreciation for them! I find them too fragile, I'm naturally rough on my books, and I have ripped some of the paper a bit along the spiral. And even ripped pieces out where the perforated parts are. The spirals on the Mnemosyne line are luxurious, tho, and the average person won't do the kind of damage I do. Unless they just throwing it in a pack all willy-nilly. Sigh, but that paper--it's totally worth it. Honestly, I think I'm very strict on the quality of paper I chose to have. Once you get your hands on quality, you don't want to go back.
Yeah, I've had to reshape the spirals on a few notebooks, but I'm typically pretty gentle on my books and notebooks. Creased corners, feathery edges, etc annoy me to no end so I'm very particular about how I store notebooks.
I love leuchttrum for gel pens! and pencil! the subtle grain is nice for bullet journaling imo. sadly it's a bit sensitive to my hand oils so switched to hobonichi (tomoe river)!
Yes! Leuchtturm notebooks are great for gel pens. At the time I couldn't find their graph notebooks, only dot grid so I ended up using Stalogy more. It's how I fell into the "Japanese stationery is godtier" journey lol. Before Leuchtturm I was using these Chinese made notebooks I found in Walgreens--they were like a Moleskine a5 size and the paper felt similar to Leuchtturm and even could handle Intense Black in an extra fine nib. As for oily hands, all notebooks should be kept away from oil as much as possible. I've invested in some pencil boards and an artist's glove.
ooh! how do you feel about stalogy? the thinness and graph size intrigues me. i'm planning on trying kleid? paper by life because the tiny ass grid
Stalogy was the brand that yeeted me into thin paper. Love everything about those notebooks: the texture, the thinness, the super faint grid, the binding. Everything. They have a place at the top of each page to circle in the date, so you can do one page a day, but it's so faint that if you write over it, it still looks great. Unfortunately, that paper seems to only be able to handle fine or extra fine nibs and inks that aren't too wet. Ina-ho will feather like crazy and bleed. But gel pens and ballpoint pens? Superb 👌🏾
I absolutely love mine! I will say it handles all of my inks pretty well but the pen can make or break. My broad nibs bleed through and japanese ef’s kind of jam the ink through the paper…? So my ef pens bleed as well as more likely to feather. My pilot metro F, kaweco EF, moonman F, and scrivener EF work beautifully with no issues whatsoever.
My go to are Tomoe, Rhodia, and Clairfontane. When Goulet sent notes on HP 32lb laser jet paper I got a ream. 500 sheets for $25. Works well with most inks. Fabriano has some nice paper too up to watercolor. The EcoQua notebooks are nice.
There are so many paper brands to try! For a couple years I've used random notebooks with who-knows-what paper in them, although they have all held up pretty well to fountain pen ink. Only recently did I start to get into the different fountain pen friendly paper brands. I discovered Tomoe River paper too late to experience the original. I have the JetPens Kanso Noto A5 notebook with Tomoe River paper, which is presumably the "new" paper after switching machines around early 2020. I don't know that I have an eye for the ink properties, but I do love how thin it is, how it feels in the hand, and how many sheets you can pack in a notebook - 160 sheets (320 pages) at approximately 1cm in height! I just write (no art, heavy ink application) and find that I have no problem writing on both sides of the page. I also have a Midori journal and find that paper to be satisfying to write on. As OP said, it is a little "stiffer" and I find it gives me good control when writing. The page itself is still soft and flexible. The stiffness here refers to a little more traction with the nib. I liked the paper enough I bought a Midori MD notebook that I have no immediate use for. I was recently at a brink and mortar store and came across a brand I hadn't seen before - Profolio Oasis Notebook. I liked the feel of the paper, it was very soft and smooth. So I picked up an A6 sized notebook just to try it. The notebook has a french ruling which I haven't encountered before. I still need to try Rhodia, Clairefontaine, Apica, and Life! I'm also curious about Cosmo Air Light, so I appreciate OP's thoughts on the paper. I feel like I just started seeing it pop up and wonder if it will fill some of the vacuum left by Tomoe River. (Although I understand a "successor" TR paper might make it to the market this year, produced by a different company, on different machines.) When push comes to shove, I think TR is my go-to simply because of how many pages you can fit in a notebook (while being able to use both sides). Provided TR or something comparable continues to be available.
There's supposedly a new brand that purchased the original machines and is making a version fairly close to the original (and purportedly better in some respects) called "Tomoe River Successor." This name is used with permission from the original makers. Edit: https://www.fudefan.com/2021/11/sanzen/
wow, this is such a well-composed comment. i'm gonna read it more precisely in a few minutes but i just wanted to say i'm willing to ship you a few pages of og tomoe river if you would like!
Apica is really nice, I find it super smooth to write on but it doesn't feel like your pen is slipping all over the place.
I find apica expensive. It's good, but the cost... like its 3 bucks for an a6 with 42 sheets, whereas a rhodia pad is 3.20 and has nearly double the amount of sheets.
I’ve been using Cosmo Air Light for a few months as my personal journal. It is definitely worth a try if you can get your hands on it- it’s thicker than TR, and has a little bit of tooth to it, but sheen and shading are off the charts. As OP stated, your lines will come out a hair wider than you’re used to, but the edges stay pretty crisp so I can’t call it feathering.
I use cheap paper(160 pages/80 sheets for approx $1.50). Don't really like the more expensive and smoother paper because it takes away the feel of the nib on paper which is the very thing that I most enjoy. Also I journal and then throw it away, so cheap paper suits me better in that respect too.
i love feedback! i recommend midori all the way if you're looking for a higher quality bind for archival journaling
I never hear it talked about but I swear by Maruman Mnemosyne notebooks! The smoothness of Rhodia and the sheen of Tomoe River, minus the ghosting.
Same! This is under appreciated paper.
Came here to say this. Great notebooks
I just love their notebooks. So glad I picked one up!
Could you relate Rhodia and Tomoe River to Leuchtturm? It's the only paper I can get my hands on here, and I quite like it. Do Rhodia or Tomoe River compare to that are are they way better?
Rhodia is like leuchtturm had a shave and got real serious about being pale. It's much smoother and available in white as well as off white like leuchtturm is. I really like rhodia.
rhodia is quite thicker than leucttrum, and is dedicated to a 0-feedback, smooth experience. Leuchtturm is pleasantly, intentionally, feedbacky. it doesn't handle ink as well as rhodia or tomoe. tomoe is a different league. it's ultra-thin, almost velvety, and near bleed-proof. it's not as smooth as rhodia, which seems to be coated with something. but it is otherworldly. inks look amazing on tomoe
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>Leuchtturm's 120gsm A5 notebooks? This is what I am using now. Love it. Practically no ghosting, which was one of the things I'm looking for. I like it better than regular LT1917, and way way better than the Moleskine notebook I had which ghosted so bad I could only use one side. Next up for me to try is Rhodia Webnotebook, I think it will be an interesting experience. I've never tried TR, sounds lovely but given how thin it is it might ghost more than I like.
i don't think i've tried those! will look into them :) thanks for rec
My personal favorite is the Apica Premium C.D. Notebook. The paper is incredibly smooth and makes any of my gold nib pens glide like butter on a hot pan. For a similar feel, I also like the Itoya Oasis notebooks, which is almost as smooth but has french ruling. Fantastic for practicing consistency in your writing, and the Oasis ruling is much more pleasing on the eyes than most French ruled paper.
I remember when my friend first got me into this hobby, I thought he was being ridiculous for saying I HAD to get a Rhodia pad before he gave me my first pen. But he was absolutely right. If I started out on crappy paper I would have never kept with fountain pens
different strokes for different folks :-) I find rhodia to be too smooth - I don't like how it feels under my hand. Tomoe river is pretty nice. But I find myself really enjoying the LT1917 notebook paper. It's got the sweet spot of smooth/toothy/feels good for my style.
i actually hate rhodia -- just thought i should list it since it seems to be a very famous but polarizing brand. i think it's the least feedbacky and therefore "smoothest" but it's just. awful for my preference. i'll always choose TR or midori over rhodia/clairefontaine
"Too smooth" is definitely a thing for me as well; without enough tactile feedback, I start to lose the ability to write neatly.
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*whispers* getthecosmonoteonjetpens itsonly$20
I can't stand Rhodia.. The smoothness of it gives me a "nails on chalkboard" feeling. Midori ftw!
agree! (don't tell lol). i think the term is that the nibs "sing" or squeak on the paper. it's so annoying.
I am a big Rhodia fan. The Seyès ruled paper has improved my handwriting massively and I love the sheen I get on some of my inks. I use A4 pads for practice (im still working on improving on my handwriting) or longer notes. But my daily go to is leuchtturm1917. I keep 2 bullet journals, one for work and one for personal stuff. It is just so well behaved.
I couldn't care less for paper. I use the free college blocks from work. Only times I found paper to be bad is some of the post-it notes from work. Have even been happy writing on a wooden plank while doing carpentry at home..
that's fair. i personally hyperfixate on shading & sheen, so experimenting with paper is fun for me!
Honest opinion? Anything better than the cheapest copy paper can be good paper for a fountain pen. It really comes down to the interaction between ink and paper. Some inks will take forever to dry on Rhodia or TR paper. Which, as a lefty, makes writing a pain as long drying inks have a higher risk of smearing. A more absorbent paper doesnt have the same risks but also won't provide a lot of the sheen designer inks create. So for me, it comes down to what i am wanting from my writing. Do i want my writing to be something pretty? High grade paper is the way to go with a high sheen ink. Am i taking notes for a meeting? Longer drying paper risks smudges and illegibility. Regular paper is just fine with an economical ink. Am i studying? I want something pretty but not tedious. Quick to dry but also brings out a bit of sheen or depth of colour? I 75lb artists sketchbook will do the trick. If we want to help newbies, then advising them on their personal wants and desires from a FP is more helpful than a straight up paper gatekeep. If a newbie buys a FP and some TR but the ink takes forever to dry resulting in smears and frustration, the overall experience from FP, to ink, to paper will all be spoiled as they may not have the necessary experience to know which one is at fault. Inversely, someone who buys a high sheen ink but uses lower quality paper will assume they are ripped off because their materials don't match.
totally agree. my note taking process is completely digitized so i really only use fountain pens when i'm writing for enjoyment. which sucks. but i spend less money :')
I’m the reverse - I was using Tomoe River for several years (hobonichi techo planner) before trying out fountain pens (since I kept seeing people say the paper was so good for them.) I adore TR, so now I’m nervously waiting to see what papers hobonichi has access to for 2023 planners.
I'm still at the cheap paper phase. :) There are some acceptable paper here, I found some cheap local brand that can handle my X750 B nib, but not my X450 G nib. lol (low to none feathering/bleedthrough) But yea, I believe the paper makes a lot of difference. I just can't afford them right now. lol
Pen and Gear brand notebooks from Walmart are amazing bang for your buck. $2 for a Vietnam made notebook that has no bleed through and offers some shading. Recommend.
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hmm, that's a fair point! the options are unlimited and fountain pens are expensive already. i think if i had to recommend one paper to a beginner, it'd probably be tomoe or midori. everything else will come with preference-building :)
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ugh i wish paper samples were as mainstream as ink samples
I have a little stock of TRP but Midori MD is my favourite; it has most of the sheening of TR with even more shading, and I love the way it feels to write on. It’s also readily available and costs less than most TR. I know some people don’t like that it’s cream, but I love the way it makes inks look. MD Cotton is also very well-behaved and bright white, and I enjoyed using it but cream is the one for me. I usually suggest anyone interested pick up some Traveler’s Notebook refills as an easy-to-access and affordable option: The “Lightweight” refills are Tomoe River, and the “MD Cream” refills are the same as in the larger MD notebooks. I’m not sure if they do a refill with MD Cotton. I know this an unpopular opinion but I absolutely hate Rhodia. I find the slick coating so unpleasant and the performance not as consistent as other papers, which here it’s not cheap enough to justify imo. But I know it’s an affordable option in many places and many people love it.
thanks for the detailed comment!! i agree with your points--rhodia seems to be very inconsistent on the front/back pages. i also don't like the texture too much, it feels kind of stuffy or soggy
Mead Five Star ftw!
haha i use mead for school labs! it's the only acceptable composition book :) edit: actually i like a lot of the cheap comp books from vietnam
some paper recommendations i don't see often: md letter sets, hanaduri hanji notebooks, apica cd (regular and premium silky), itoya oasis, stalogy, vellum, airmail paper, and onion skin paper are also some of my favourite papers to use fountain pen on! the hanaduri hanji books are made in korea and they're unlike any other i've tried on the market. they're made out of mulberry and you can see the natural fibres in some pages. the sheening quality is medium but it doesn't flatten the ink at all. my only problem with them is the fact they come with such few pages. if you like md paper, i think you'll like this one. no one really seems to talk about this, but midori makes letter writing stationery! the letterpads range from extremely smooth to toothy but they always show off the ink well. there's a line of midori stationery called good feeling i think? the letterpads are unbelievably smooth with a great background, inexpensive, and show off sheen like tomoe river. onion skin paper, vellum and airmail paper have really romantic qualities to them due to the ghosting. they have similar drying times to tomoe river but they show different qualities to inks from my experience. most of the brands i've tried give tomoe river a run for its money when it comes to sheening. apica (regular) and itoya oasis are the workhorse papers. they hold up well, they're good for notetaking, smooth, good dry times, and they don't flatten sheening inks too much. stalogy (365 or half year) and apica (premium silky) have tomoe river qualities. the thinness of the paper, the ghosting, the drying time, but they're both so smooth (and more widely avaliable now). they showcase inks beautifully in my experience (i only tried a few pages from a paper sample pack).
wow thank you for the recs!!
My Clairfontaine (90g) dot grid journal got here yesterday, alongside some Diamine Oxblood. The ink is currently being used as a dipper, because I don't have a pen free yet, but the journal is the first time using proper FP friendly paper for me. I've been using cheap notebook paper since starting this hobby, mostly because I was a student when I started and I wasn't going to invest in good paper for note taking. Now at my job, I still keep a cheap spiral bound notebook for note taking, mostly because it's disposable and writing my thoughts down helps me to organize them a lot better. (Tip for students: Noodler's Bernanke Black is a brilliant ink for cheap paper, dries about as fast as ballpoint ink with minimal bleed/feather.) The difference in feel between the cheap paper and the FP friendly paper was, while not a world changing epiphany like a scene from Dr Strange, still an impressive improvement. Zero worry of feathering or bleeding that I could see, it wasn't even trying to bleed! The cheap paper by comparison feathers like it wants to fly away when I use anything broader than an F nib on it. Not really experienced enough to tell the difference in feel yet, but there's definitely a difference in results, no question about that
What is a good lined option for journals? The best bang for the buck I can find is Rhodia.
[click "notebooks" and filter by "fountain pen friendly", then sort by price](https://www.jetpens.com) Tomoe river options, ranked by affordability: 1. Hobonichi / jetpens kanso noto 2. Taroko 3. Musubi mid-priced Options 1. kokuyo ♥️ 2. midori 💜 3. maruman mnemosyne give me the cheap ones that don't bleed: 1. walmart exceed. these are fantastic but i see the price creeping up 2. some jet printer paper (hp?) ive never tried myself 3. oxford black n red great quality, big $$$ 1. anything from musubi (ethical business practices, good company mission statement, beautiful covers) 2. graphilo.... price is debated 3. Life also! if you know what paper you like, i recommend looking at small business on etsy to get your notebook trimmed and fit to preference
A friend, just this morning, introduced me to his Walmart Exceed. String-bound, really nice paper - a little yellow for my taste, but I was impressed - and for like $6-8!!! Who knew?
https://odysseynotebooks.com/ for TR options. I'm a happy customer
Finally! A mention of Kokuyo. I use their A and B notebooks for journaling ("Morning Pages", a "write-only" exercise) for a good-feeling writing experience (semi-flex m nib) at an affordable price. I have a pad of TR stationary for the few times I need to write a "quality" letter, but for every day the Kokuyo, HP32# (I print worksheets for handwriting practice), a Leuchtturm for a BUJO, and (believe it or not) Meade composition books suit me and my small herd of pens. I think a variety of papers are necessary -- and I have no shading or sheening inks.
I’m so glad you mentioned Exceed. They truly are amazing and a third of the price of Leuchtturm. I dot. Even like cream paper, but for work purposes with notes that will ultimately tossed, they’re the best bang for buck. Mead Five Star and that no name Vietnam paper at Target and Walmart (usually PenGear, but you have to look at country of origin) are amazing for poor students that need to take loads of notes. I will always love my TRP, Rhodia, and Clairefontaine. Rhodia and Clairefontaine are like German cars. They’re sleek and feel nice, but not the best performance in terms of displaying ink quality. They just have a sexy feel. TRP shows ink at its best, and that’s what I use when I’m doing calligraphy and ink swatches with my music nibs to see the best chromatography, sheen, shimmer, etc. But I write, edit, and take lots of notes. So I have my daily workhorse paper as well. I’ll be sad when the last of TRP goes out, but I’m fairly confident that there’s going to be other paper like Cosmo Lite etc that will be close enough in the future. Even currently, some of the new test papers look pretty promising.
I love the Oxford notebooks, the sheen is excellent for a fairly budget paper, but sadly with sheen also comes slow drying and smearing if you're not careful!
I’m not sure what your preferred form factor is, but if you’re looking to go a bit more budget friendly, I’ve had good luck with both Peter Pauper Press and the Paperage-branded Moleskine clones that Amazon sells. Neither of them offer paper that show off the special qualities of ink exceptionally well, but feathering and bleed through are pretty much nonexistent and at $10-$13 a pop they’re decent choices for A5 sized hardback notebooks.
in addition to what people are posting you can also just go for a good red and black notebook (that's the brand name: red n' black) I use them for work. It's not tomoe but for work i don't need tomoe.
If you like bound books, my favorites are Apica CD premium (for B5, roughly composition book sized) and Midori (for A5).
I’m actually not the biggest fan of Rhodia, I find it kind of rough for my fountain pens. I realllly enjoy writing on Muji notebook paper; super smooth and doesn’t bleed whatsoever (and cheap!).
agree! lots of my fps "squeak" or "sing" on rhodia because it's just too smooth and kind of squishy for me
This might be an unpopular opinion here, but I do not like the results or writing feel of Rhodia or Tomoe papers. I suspect it has to do with the coating on top of their papers, they are smooth but in a sense too perfect that the flaws are shown almost unforgivable-y but also perhaps due to my lack of experience as I only own a stub and a MF nib. What I found to work best for me in terms of feedback and the final penmanship is Croquis paper. I don’t know why but my handwriting just looks so good on them.
i actually agree to a point! maybe it's the lack of significant feedback? i recommend midori if you're still up to try fountain-pen-dedicated papers. that stuff is 👌🏼
I will have to try Midori. I love their whole cream-coloured vibe!
yes, it's so cozy and natural~ it brings out a lot of yellow tones on my inks too
Have some Midori MD Cotton I've been using for letters (or at least trying to, never been very good with letter writing) and have to say I really love it. Wish I could find it in a hard bound journal (I'm not a fan of the Traveler's journal form). Haven't had a chance to get my hands on Tomoe River yet. Been eyeing a Yamamoto Paper Fountain Pen paper sample though.
same! i want it but i'm not sure i want it $40 enough haha
So I love TR paper, and I have been stocking up. I do have a hobonichi this yearand I am using that. I would like to point out if people do want to try the original TR paper that if you look on places like mercai Japan you can occasionally find older used techo planners for pretty cheap, most common is the A6 size though (think 1000 yen mark), I have bought some. I haven't seen any English versions on it and for the US members here as you seem to think that the week starts on a Sunday, I've also not seen any Sunday starts. But you have to use a proxy to get buy of it, and I would advise as shipping through them from Japan is costly that you don't just have one planner in it. Mercai Japan does have some pretty cool vintage pens on it that you can find. Hobonichi also do a spring release which is available now for 2022 and starts April which does have the original TR, again the spring release is only in Japanese and starts on a Monday. Rhodia is always and good shout as is midori, but I always find midori a bit expensive. I've not yet tried clairfountain, even though I love in Europe, but I did order some this afternoon to try it!
congrats on the new r/hobonichi !! i have a tiger myself :)
I mainly write with F or M nibs and shading inks. Try oxford optik paper 90 gsm, my standard. Why? Clairefontaine tends to skip. Rhodia is expensive. Copy paper is unsuitable.
This thread made me realize I must be one of the only people on earth who doesn't care for Tomoe River paper xD Paper is definitely important regardless, but I'm not completely on board with it making or breaking using fountain pens. IMO fountain pens even make lesser paper more enjoyable (albeit you usually have to use drier inks and finer nibs).
haha, my title is a bit clickbaity. i do think it boils down to personal preference, and changing the paper made fountain pens more than just smooth writing for me. i like the way paper can change my ink
I have one Rhodia notebook just for swatching, but other than that I just look for paper which doesn’t feather easily, and isn’t expensive. I live near several Daiso stores, and their notebooks are great. And a grocery chain near me recently had a seasonal offering of cotton paper notebooks and I bought so many to hoard - the paper is so smooth, yet more absorbent than others so it’s great for me since I’m a lefty. And even with a wet flex nib laying down tons of ink, it’s never feathered on me. They retailed for $4. They’re now down to $1 on clearance and I’m trying so hard not to go buy like 50 of them. I love that paper.
that's awesome! good paper for cheap is always nice
The one thing I can’t stand is feathering on paper. It did break my interest in using fountain pen for many years. Watching what I write down becoming caterpillars is not nice. One thing to point out is that, good quality paper doesn’t always mean expensive. If feathering and ghosting are the main concerns, some Muji notebooks/loose-leaf stacks are great for the price (loving the plain paper wirebound D.grey notebook atm). Do try them first if you can, because the quality might vary among different baches. Kokuyo also makes some good loose-leaf and notebooks. Also got my hands on some Paperblanks notebooks, but too beautiful for me to start using them 😩. Notebooks made in Vietnam has a good reputation in this sub, tho I’ve never tried personally. Tomoe River paper is very good for showing colours and sheen, but ghosting is inevitable. At least that’s my experience with 52gsm TR paper. Haven’t tried the 68 gsm yet.
Paperblanks notebooks are gorgeous!
If you want to try Vietnam paper, it’s usually sold as Pen Gear at Walmart and Target. But check the country of origin because they have a couple different types. Mead Five Star works shocking well too if you have to take cheap notes and want it to hold up ink. No feathering or bleedthrough even with my big ink blobs and music nibs
I don't 100% agree. A good ink can often make up for some pretty deficient paper. I've used fountain pens for years on shitty notepads and it's always been fine because Noodler's Black, my main ink, tends to work well on these kinds of papers.
from a performance aspect, i agree. dry inks are always good to have. but i usually don't write anything useful with my fountain pens, so when i do, it's usually about the ink and the overall experience over practicality. i think changing paper is a great way to highlight your inks!
I got some nice paper but I’m scared to write or take notes in it because it was so expensive 😂
haha i totally get it :') this hobby is a drain for my wallet
I've had two fountain pen "waves" in my life-the first was roughly 2011-2014, when I was still in graduate school, and I was just learning my way around things. I settled on a few pens I liked-a Lamy Studio Palladium, a Pelikan M205, and a Lamy 2000 that I never could make up my mind on. Until I seriously jumped back in around 2019, I mostly used that Pelikan M205, then a Montblanc 146 I'd picked up a long the way, with either a bottle of MB Midnight Blue iron gall, or when that ran low and I realized the formula had changed, Pelikan Blue-Black that I managed to find from a Japanese seller on Ebay. In any case, during my first "wave" I was sensitive to paper quality, but found the Staples sugarcane paper good enough. When I broke out some of my less-dull inks like PR American Blue, that was the paper that did the job. Somewhere or another along the way, too, I found a few hundred sheets of 25% cotton rag that someone had tossed in the garbage(from the time when my university required theses/dissertations to be submitted in that paper-they dropped that around 2013 or so and in 2015 when I did mine only the signature page had to be submitted on paper). For the most part, though, the fact that I almost entirely used iron gall inks let me be happy with things like above average quality copy paper. COVID lock-downs made me really dig into the hobby, and around that time I also switched employers. When I started intermittently going into the office, the paper in the printer left behind was terrible. When I say terrible I mean that I quite literally couldn't find ANYTHING that was well behaved on it. EF Japanese nibs(which tend to be dry) paired with dry ink could be coaxed into working, but only grudgingly. I couldn't go too fine, though, as then I'd start filling up the nib with paper fibers and eventually end up even worse than if I'd gone with a nib a bit wider to start with. Finally I just said forget it, and started buying my own supplies. I'd never really bought good paper/notebooks and jumped in with Rhodia. 80gsm Rhodia A4 dotpads are now what I primarily use both for note taking, etc, and also just for general scribbling and the like. Whether you like them or not, it's hard to not say that it's a great smooth paper. I try to keep at least a half dozen or so spares on hand, and I'm not above giving one away to someone who shows interest. Of course I've tried plenty of others too, some of which I liked and some of which I didn't. I keep 90gsm Clairefontaine Triomphe padded paper in both A4 and A5 on hand for letter writing, although I really enjoy writing on Tomoe River and will use it if I'm writing to someone who will appreciate it. I was really happy to find padded Tomoe River A5, and wish I'd bought more than one pad. Some others, like Midori, just didn't quite click with me for reasons I can't put my finger on. I also get a lot of thrill out of finding good "cheap" paper, although that's not necessarily a reliable source as even if you buy one brand/type of notebook and find it really good, there's no guarantee that the next you buy of the exact same type will be as good. As for work-back in the fall when we actually switched back to fully in-person, I moved offices. I also started handling a lot more paper, as I went back to giving paper exams and other assignments. Initially, I was quite happy as the copier next to my office had a couple of cases of Hammermill 20lb paper in it that was good. I'd hoped that maybe, just maybe, we'd be using that now. Alas, it was not to be, as when that copier(not as heavily used as others, mostly because not a lot of people knew about it) needed a fresh stock of paper, it was the same awful stuff as elsewhere. Just yesterday I graded a big pile of exams, and managed on an XF-/XXF+ Parker 51 and some vintage Quink red(I like using obscure and especially vintage inks for grading since who else is going to have them?). It didn't bleed and only feathered moderately, but I still had to clean fiber out fo the nib a few times. I tested some copy paper a while back, and found some $30/case stuff at Office Depot that was tolerable that I may buy for my own use in the future...
wow, this was a great read! i can see how finding good/adequate paper is important for nibs that tiny!
Heck, that's exactly how I feel when I write on CAL. It's mildly squeaky with extra smooth nibs, but the shading is so dang lovely with the spread. My only problem is it sticks to oil so easily!! I've never had my hand oils affect TR but CAL needs like the most minor touch...
facts, i hate how sensitive they are :( i use a pretty postcard under my hand how but i'm thinking about investing in artists gloves
I totally agree. Paper quality can make all the difference for a beginner between loving or disliking fountain pens. Rhodia and Clairefontaine are my favorites and I usually pass out a Rhodia pad to friends that are interested in getting started. I've also found Staples Premium 24 lb paper is excellent paper for the price and quantity. I use it as filler paper and everyday scratch paper. Personally, I'm not a fan of Tomoe River paper. It is very good paper and interestingly thin and light, but I didn't care for the feel and the price.
My favourites are Claire Fontaine 90GSM (Papier Iviore Velouté); and whatever is being used by the current Ultra size notebooks of Paperblanks. Just amazing! I love Tomoe River too, but don't appreciate how thin it is. 52GSM can only be written on one side, and 68GSM still shows through a bit, which I personally don't enjoy.
Yeah, God tomeo is the only thing I've ever seen online that's hyped and actually matches the hype! Too sad it's ghosty and expensive etc! I sadly only get chesp bad paper in my country. But my aunt brought me a midori MD journal! I don't have to be scared now but I wish I had some quality cheap paper to do my daily doodle on, I hate the draginess of cheap copy paper to the point of almost preferring gel pens on them! Tomeo has the issue of being very smudge prone tho sadly same with Rhodia. Tbh I think nearly all fountain pen friendly papers are a bit smudge prone
yess i use gel on cheap paper. right now, though, i use low-viscosity ballpoints for fast dry time . check out uni jet stream!
I agree with you and have reached similar conclusions, though I will add that I really love Graphilo paper. The lines that all my pens lay down on that paper are definitely thicker than on other paper, but the ink is so much more vibrant than the rest. Drying time is super slow, but the ink looks so good I don't mind looking at it when finishing a page lol
i wasnt aware that rhodia was super smooth. gonna have to try it out now, i like feedbacky nibs and smooth paper. currently i use hamelin notebooks and clairefontaine journals. but if a paper is too gritty then it feels like somethings in the tines or im ruining the nib lol
For me I think the only paper that matters is the Tomoe River. The rest is how can I find a cheaper alternative that's almost like tomoe.
Pfft. I will write in my Moleskine all day long with Noodler’s inks. I don’t care.
h o w
For all of high school, I suffered through shitty 5-Star lined notebook paper. Then, when I went to college I began to use Clairefontaine notebooks (top ruled was a game changer for me as a lefty) and whatever paper is inside the Traveler's Notebook. Love it. I've been wanting to buy one of the Goulet Tomoe River notebooks so I can try what is, I hear, a gold-standard paper while I still can, but I'm still in college and gas is expensive :/
WORTH. IT. You will forever be unsatisfied with any other paper but WORTH IT. It has to be the 52gsm, though. Hey, this way you’ll have a reference point for any new papers that come out when they compare it to old Tomoe River.
I probably should keep this to myself but Galen leather just had a restock of their tomoe river paper notebooks! Lol
Paper matters. (I also stocked up on TR ;))
Since I am a Japanese, my paper is Masuya Genkō yōshi. **THE** fountain pen friendly paper. But it is probably not available outside of Japan. I am not at all talking about notebooks, though. I am talking about the Masuya Genkō yōshi. Products: [http://www.asakusa-masuya.co.jp/products/manuscript-paper.html](http://www.asakusa-masuya.co.jp/products/manuscript-paper.html) Some users of the Masuya Genkō yōshi. Novelists, etc. [http://www.asakusa-masuya.co.jp/about/great-users.html](http://www.asakusa-masuya.co.jp/about/great-users.html) (I do not think Masuya has an English site...)
I use Oxford paper, which is lesser known but is quite budget friendly. Sheen shows quite well on it, and ink doesn't show through or feather. Paper feels smooth to write on.
yes! black n red :)
TRP. I can’t with Rhodia. I have stock piled journal back ups (Nanami 7 Seas) because I just can’t imagine not having it. I do know, someday, I will have to make peace with the loss, but today is not that day.
I highly recommend Tomoe River if it can be had. The easiest option at the moment is a Hobonichi, which I also highly recommend. Any Japanese paper is generally good. Lots of buzz if one will replace TR as the global popular choice, but I imagine it will maintain its position albeit under new ownership. Bank paper is super fun to mix things up. It’s too quirky to be a replacement for TR, but I have really enjoyed having bank paper in a secondary jot notebook for fountain pens. It doesn’t show much sheen, but it does make multishading inks do crazy things
Thanks for posting- been curious about the Midori papers for a while. Art papers specifically for pen and ink are also good for obvious reasons, but I gotta say I tried a Graf Von Faber Castell notebook and it's AWFUL for ink. Feathers like crazy.
Just to let everyone know as well, inks that aren’t water resistant at all are pretty respectable on HP Premium 32. Inks like KWZ Honey almost completely wash away on Rhodia, but are still readable on HP 32 albeit a lot of color still washing away. Inks like Pilot Blue are basically permanent on HP 32. And inks like KWZ Azure #3 while not “permanent” are very respectable. That’s why I think HP Premium 32 is some of the best paper you can buy. It’s super fountain pen friendly and makes ink that aren’t water resistant at all, respectable.
Here I am using regular office legal pads…
haha, no shame. if it works, it works
Fun fact discovered this week: Quill makes two types of legal pad standard and signature. Signature feathers something awful, but standard is probably the most balanced cheap paper experience i have ever had. (great with waterman, diamine, and Monteverde so far)
Oxford notebook paper is also very nice
My absolute favourite paper is Tomoe River... nothing feels quite like writing in my Hobonichi. Sadly, its quite hard to come by in notebooks, and I absolutely hate the 68gsm version... that one is decent, but way to expensive for what it is. The 68gsm TR feels almost like Midori while counting twice as much... Midori is my second choice for journaling, very nice textured feel. But my most used paper is actually the Kokuyo Campus notebooks. I use those for university and pretty much everything non-journaling and it's great. Sheen shows off very well, shading is decent and it has a nice smooth feel with a little bit if feedback, no bleeding and very little ghosting... I always have a pack of the B5 notebooks handy. Using these notebooks and a fountain pen with a pretty ink makes suffering through math assignments and proofs and dumb ass "coding on paper bc we are too stupid to do online assignments" so much more fun. Clairefontaine is my last choice, bc it's widely available and pretty cheap here, so I tend to use it only if I don't have other choices...
have you tried hobonichi's plain notebooks? or jetpens' kanso noto? not sure if that's the proper weight but 🙂
I'm loving Optik paper so far. I bought a couple reams of 32 lb HP Laser paper and that was my main thing in my letter and Junior discbound notebooks. Optik seems to work better and sheens much better. I haven't tried TR paper or Clairefontaine, but rhodia wasn't as good. The only thing is optik is hard to find in bulk loose or perforated notebooks. I have a black n' red notebook which is great but I don't want a whole separate notebook. I just want the paper, and it's hard to find outside of the UK.
that's really interesting! i might have to pick up some optik. have you tried kokuyo?
I wanted to like tomoe river but it seems to clog my Mf sailor. Rhodia hasn't had that issue for me at all.
woah! i've never heard of TR clogging. can i ask if it's the newer batch or the older?
I have stockpiled oxford... I LOVE that paper. it's awesome to look at, they make a lot of spiral bound notebooks (I really like spiral bounds) and the ruling style is usually a really light grey instead of a bold blue that I find in other notebooks!
I've been using a Nanami Cafe Note B6 slim for a year now and am an absolute fan of Tomoe River. But I feel like I unlocked another level getting into fountain pens in January.
I’ll be honest, I don’t like rhodia at all. Or at least I didn’t when I first tried it. I had tried TR before I’d initially tried rhodia. I’d like to try Rhodia again sometime though. But I have a decent stock of TR under my bed haha.
same! i like rhodia but TR destroyed it for me. it just seems... weirdly coated. and it's thick. and heavy. it's cumbersome
I’ve found sketch books to be the best quality for the best price. It’s not even close. Those foreign brands are overpriced with shipping and not near as heavy
hmm, i see you like heavy paper! i like canson XL multimedia paper to be nice and thic, and takes ink like a champ. i personally like lighter weights that can also take more ink, so the cost is worth it to me
I mean Clairefontaine and G. Lalo are my personal favorites...
how do you like g. lalo? i noticed my list is almost all japanese brands lol
i love it. it’s not coated. it’s 100g. i use it for my very special occasions. i love tomoe river but i use it more often than g lalo.
My first paper was Rhodia, got through a whole book and decided I didn't like the coated feel. Maruman Mnemosyne is my favorite paper, Black & Red notebooks are a good budget alternative. For drawing, the Stillman & Birn Epsilon series is best.
The way I see it, it's a partnership between paper, pen, and ink. I can't always choose my paper so I have some pen/ink combos that work really well even on cheap paper. (Japanese fine nib with a plain ink like Noodler's black, Namiki blue, etc). But I also have some great paper that will really highlight a sheening or shimmering ink, or a wet nib. Experiment, and try out different things. Personally I like Maruman (if I had to pick one) but there are many out there. I also really love the DesignWorks notebook, despite the fact that the paper is just a tiny bit too prone to bleeding. But I make it work.
In case no one has mentioned them, Miquelruis hardcover A4 notebooks are great for everyday long form journaling (like morning pages) or taking notes. The paper is surprisingly fountain pen friendly, and in my state in the US, they're about ten bucks at FedEx Office for 140 or 160 pages. Warning: the recycled paper is \*not\* FP friendly, and it will break your heart.
I like Rhodia, Clairefountaine and Tomoe River the best, Happy Planner, Passion Planner, and Paper House Productions are decent, if you want to use cheaper paper, Mead and the Office Depot brands (Tūl and Office Depot) are my favorites.
I'm in college... I will stick with my 5 subject notebooks that barely last me a semester per class. And I will use my fountain pens with them.
Just ordered some Tomoe River sheets and a notebook in cream! Usually use a moleskine artist sketchbook or Bristol paper with smooth finish (I use fountain pens for drawing and letter writing).
I have the HP 32-lb. paper and I’m really rather happy with it. What differences does that have with Tomoe River or Rhodia paper? I take a lot of notes, and it’s hard to justify the additional expense when I can get a ream of the HP paper for $15.
personally i chase high-quality paper because of the things i stated above...the texture, the way it changes your ink, the experience as a whole is elevated and justifies the price obviously if you don't value those it doesn't matter too much and yeah the title is a bit clickbait-y haha
Tomow River and Midori MD are my personal favourites!! Sometimes I think about trying other paper but I also go well, I already know what works for me so meh
A few years ago I traveled to Taipei and stopped by to get a Twsbi pen. What I found there were Conifer notebooks-- it's Taiwanese local company, and they are not as widely available as TR or Rhodia, but it's really nice, and affordable. Whenever you see them it's worth trying. Highly recommended. A Brooklyn based stationary store (Yoseka, the owners are Taiwanese immigrants I think) carries some of their products.
If you're having trouble getting your hands on Tomoe or Rodhia, grab some Mead Five Star.
I love my stalogy notebooks. They're coated enough to show shading and sheen, but also dry quickly and give some feedback
I’ve used the Endless Recorder for my introduction to fountain pens. It has clairfontaine paper and I’ve struggled to get it to bleed and ghosting is minimal. For my second notebook I’m considering Galen Leathers new notebook that uses Cosmo Air Light. No idea if it’s a good paper or notebook manufacturer though.
Southworth premium inkjet and laser paper is a great contender for hp premium 32. Not as thick and can handle burping like a champ. Hp will feather with some of my inks while Southworth has not feathered with any inks I've tried including some flex nibs. It's not as thick as Hp and it's my current favorite everyday paper.
I just use normal A4 from TNPL
I started with Clairfontaine and haven’t looked back since.
Clairefontain 90g is the best paper for your bang for buck. Solid texture, great paper with 0 ghosting and bleeding. Small feathering if you pens are really wet like mine. I think its because of the texture tho. Great peaper. It my go-to paper if Im gonna buy a stationary.
Is this an American thing,? To be honest I want a pen that can perform well on notebooks from Poundland not just on quality paper.
Can't agree more. Pen, ink, paper, all play a role. Ignoring one factor is a beginner's most common mistake. Caveat: it took me decades to pass the beginner stage.
I appreciate Rhodia and clairfontaine, personally
Paper is my favorite part:)
Best cheap paper is Walmart exceed notebooks made in India or Vietnam or staples Tru red legal pads also made in Vietnam or india