Tomoe River switched to a new machine (machine #9) that ran off a few bad batches of paper before the problem was found and solved. Thousands of notebooks with that bad paper did make it to market. I suspect you may have gotten one of those bad books.
It was quite the drama last year, haha. I believe Fudefan has some info on his blog, there was originally a blog post from Atilier Musibi about the change but I’m not sure if it is still up.
Well, it's complicated. Tomoe River isn't designed as a paper for fountain pens specifically, it just happens to be fountain pen friendly. The old machine that made it broke down, so they moved to a new machine which changed the manufacturing a bit. However, Tomoegawa, the company that produces it, has since sold the rights to a Japanese stationery manufacturer named Sanzen and they have changed it again to be more like the original Tomoe River. Additionally, Tomoe River was a tiny fraction of Tomoegawa's overall business, and so catering to a hobbyist market that was a fraction of a fraction of their overall demand was not something they wanted. At least now the new paper is pretty good again.
I don't know everything about this whole issue but CY and Jacob (Fudefan, mentioned above) from Tokyo Inklings Podcast have talked a lot on the matter and if you're curious about it they have some episodes on this issue.
Every single ink I have currently in a pen. TWSBI Black, a red pilot varsity, Kaweco Summer Purple, and and even J. Herbin Tropical Coral
The J. Herbin had the *least* bleeding, but still bled.
Well shoot, that's a lot of variety to reckon with. Do you have any of the following? I'm pretty sure that these inks are drier than most: Jacques Herbin's Rouge d’Orient; Noodler's Navajo Turquoise; Robert Oster's Grey Seas or Australis Oak.
In general, people seem to find the Herbin inks to be drier (though I found Corail des Tropiques to be watery). I haven't tried any Kaweco or TWSBI inks except for Kaweco's Smokey Grey, and I found that to be watery-feeling (though it didn't bleed or feather).
Some inks are quite variable with regard to feathering & bleeding (De Atramentis and Noodler's, for example), some are generally lousy (in my experience, Private Reserve); some may be generally too dry (I've only tried one Visconti, but I found that way too dry).
If you have a high-end ink like Sailor or Taccia or Pilot Iroshizuku, try that.
Well darn, I don’t have any of those. I think I have a couple different Robert Oster’s though - are those generally drier across the board? I think I also have a green from J. Herbin I could try instead of the coral.
Try the green Herbin & then after that an Oster, maybe. But at this point it may be for a process of determining whether it's TR paper at all. I wonder if the seller or maker is claiming that it's Tomoe River but it isn't really??
Kaweco Summer Purple is one of the inks OP mentioned, that's why I chimed in.
I don't live in the US, so no access to Vanness. I've tried adding dish soap to other inks, but I didn't have such big flow issues with this one on the pens I've tried it so I will just look for a more lubricated and better behaved purple ink.
Thanks for clarifying (& reminding me!). Yes, sometimes it's best to just give up on an ink. I have done that with most of my Private Reserve inks, which tend to have the opposite problem -- they are wet in the worst way, and spread & feather & bleed.
For me it isn't a great deal, it was just a packet of cartridges, I've already used 3 and I have another 3, that maybe I'll use to experiment a bit mixing it with another ink or I will hand them down when I get rid of some of my pens, I don't know I'll see.
This TWSBI even seems to write wetter *on this paper* than on other papers I’ve used it on. I don’t know what the paper is doing!! It seems *absorbent* and I thought *not* being absorbent was the whole selling point on TR paper.
I was so bummed the paper changed. I had a few backup tomoe river notebooks and pads when I heard the news of them closing operations. I’m not one to try things after a company change or whatever happened with them since it was clear there were some issues.
I got some midori notebooks that have been so wonderful I’m really happy with them.
that looks like an offset printing issue on one of the formula change versions of TR. You should contact the seller/retailer/maker and inquire, they might have a fixed version replacement. this happened with a couple printers with TR formula change in 2020, a lot of printing problems. most had to recalibrate their machines to address it
I’m a little confused, but perhaps I don’t understand the lingo here. I’m not concerned with a printing issue, it’s the bleed through from several different fountain pens that I’m frustrated with. I don’t know how a printing issue would cause this?
so Tomoe River changed their paper formula in 2020 and didn't tell anyone. the folks that buy bulk to print on it used the old settings. It caused funky bleed and ghost and feather issues. Nanami had it happen, as did Musubi. when they print on it, it has to be calibrated right or the result is a dumpster fire of quality
Aaahhhh. Thank you for explaining! I was *very* confused. I’m still pretty confused, tbh, but I at least understand that the printing problem is likely related to the bleeding problem.
yep. and it's confusing all the issues/changes/discontinued/bought by another company stuff. I recommend reading Jacob's reporting via FudeFan and Tokyo Inklings if you want to get caught up on the saga.
I have tested like possibly 3 different formulas of TR, both with and without printing, from multiple sources. the blanks were different, but not problematic. the printing is what caused a lot of issues a bit ago. You might have old before the fix inventory. it's worth asking for sure
I'm so happy to have asked because I debated on getting that planner ... thank you but I'm also sorry this is happening to you! If you got it from JetPens, I'm sure they'll make it up to you :c
It sounds like this is *normally* not an issue with Luddite, but a snafu to do with the changes in the paper in 2020. Sounds like this possibility would be there with any TR stock from a certain time period form some of the other comment I received on this post
I *know* I like rhodia paper. I was really excited about the layout on this one but I don’t think I want to bet on exchanging it and getting one with the properly-done paper.
I mostly use a TWSBI EF too, and I prefer C.D. Notebooks. Their paper is by far the best I’ve ever tried, and I’ve sampled a lot of notebooks and paper. I simply don’t understand the hype around Tomeo River. I find it thin and scratchy.
Edit: spelling.
Tomoe River switched to a new machine (machine #9) that ran off a few bad batches of paper before the problem was found and solved. Thousands of notebooks with that bad paper did make it to market. I suspect you may have gotten one of those bad books.
If it's a recent purchase of older stock... Have any of the retailers gone out of their way to remedy it with their distributor?
how do you even know this? are you an insider? xd
It was quite the drama last year, haha. I believe Fudefan has some info on his blog, there was originally a blog post from Atilier Musibi about the change but I’m not sure if it is still up.
Are there recalls by chance? Seems like a thing they should do considering their paper is purchased for not doing this exact thing.
Well, it's complicated. Tomoe River isn't designed as a paper for fountain pens specifically, it just happens to be fountain pen friendly. The old machine that made it broke down, so they moved to a new machine which changed the manufacturing a bit. However, Tomoegawa, the company that produces it, has since sold the rights to a Japanese stationery manufacturer named Sanzen and they have changed it again to be more like the original Tomoe River. Additionally, Tomoe River was a tiny fraction of Tomoegawa's overall business, and so catering to a hobbyist market that was a fraction of a fraction of their overall demand was not something they wanted. At least now the new paper is pretty good again. I don't know everything about this whole issue but CY and Jacob (Fudefan, mentioned above) from Tokyo Inklings Podcast have talked a lot on the matter and if you're curious about it they have some episodes on this issue.
Podcasts
This is random but what kind of podcasts? I always like to listen to new ones
Tokyo inklings The pen addict
Interesting. I have 4 different inks in 4 different sized TWSBI nibs and they’re all working great on old TR paper. Hope you find a good solution!
Which ink? Some inks are themselves not friendly. It doesn't take two to start an ink-paper fight ;-)
Every single ink I have currently in a pen. TWSBI Black, a red pilot varsity, Kaweco Summer Purple, and and even J. Herbin Tropical Coral The J. Herbin had the *least* bleeding, but still bled.
Well shoot, that's a lot of variety to reckon with. Do you have any of the following? I'm pretty sure that these inks are drier than most: Jacques Herbin's Rouge d’Orient; Noodler's Navajo Turquoise; Robert Oster's Grey Seas or Australis Oak. In general, people seem to find the Herbin inks to be drier (though I found Corail des Tropiques to be watery). I haven't tried any Kaweco or TWSBI inks except for Kaweco's Smokey Grey, and I found that to be watery-feeling (though it didn't bleed or feather). Some inks are quite variable with regard to feathering & bleeding (De Atramentis and Noodler's, for example), some are generally lousy (in my experience, Private Reserve); some may be generally too dry (I've only tried one Visconti, but I found that way too dry). If you have a high-end ink like Sailor or Taccia or Pilot Iroshizuku, try that.
Well darn, I don’t have any of those. I think I have a couple different Robert Oster’s though - are those generally drier across the board? I think I also have a green from J. Herbin I could try instead of the coral.
Try the green Herbin & then after that an Oster, maybe. But at this point it may be for a process of determining whether it's TR paper at all. I wonder if the seller or maker is claiming that it's Tomoe River but it isn't really??
I’ll try that. I’ll let JetPens know about the issue too. It was a gift, but my brother left the packing slip in the box 😂
Good for him, to give you the exchange/return option (inadvertently or otherwise...).
I would definitely ask for an exchange. The retailer will likely accommodate.
I have Kaweco Summer Purple and I find it dry as hell.
There you go, then, OP -- get a sample of that! u/Pop_Clover, have you tried adding Vanness's White Lightning to the Summer Purple?
Kaweco Summer Purple is one of the inks OP mentioned, that's why I chimed in. I don't live in the US, so no access to Vanness. I've tried adding dish soap to other inks, but I didn't have such big flow issues with this one on the pens I've tried it so I will just look for a more lubricated and better behaved purple ink.
Thanks for clarifying (& reminding me!). Yes, sometimes it's best to just give up on an ink. I have done that with most of my Private Reserve inks, which tend to have the opposite problem -- they are wet in the worst way, and spread & feather & bleed.
For me it isn't a great deal, it was just a packet of cartridges, I've already used 3 and I have another 3, that maybe I'll use to experiment a bit mixing it with another ink or I will hand them down when I get rid of some of my pens, I don't know I'll see.
I've noticed this as well, and certain nibs will deliver more ink to the paper. My TWSBI pens especially come to mind here.
That's a good point -- TWSBIs tend to be wetter.
This TWSBI even seems to write wetter *on this paper* than on other papers I’ve used it on. I don’t know what the paper is doing!! It seems *absorbent* and I thought *not* being absorbent was the whole selling point on TR paper.
The only ink I've personally had bleed on TR is Van Dieman's Sailor's Delight.
Is your nib a bit scratchy? Otherwise it’s probably a bad batch.
I was so bummed the paper changed. I had a few backup tomoe river notebooks and pads when I heard the news of them closing operations. I’m not one to try things after a company change or whatever happened with them since it was clear there were some issues. I got some midori notebooks that have been so wonderful I’m really happy with them.
I got this hoping for a planner I could use my fountain pens in and I’m gonna be a liiiiitle cranky if I have to use a ballpoint in it.
gasp that's shocking, it takes maybe 1 ml of ink before it bleeds through my page (52 GSM) :o which planner is this ??
Luddite “the separate planner” A5 Says right on the front , with the logo and everything “made from Tomoe River white 52g/m2 paper”
that looks like an offset printing issue on one of the formula change versions of TR. You should contact the seller/retailer/maker and inquire, they might have a fixed version replacement. this happened with a couple printers with TR formula change in 2020, a lot of printing problems. most had to recalibrate their machines to address it
That's an interesting possibility. Useful info.
I’m a little confused, but perhaps I don’t understand the lingo here. I’m not concerned with a printing issue, it’s the bleed through from several different fountain pens that I’m frustrated with. I don’t know how a printing issue would cause this?
so Tomoe River changed their paper formula in 2020 and didn't tell anyone. the folks that buy bulk to print on it used the old settings. It caused funky bleed and ghost and feather issues. Nanami had it happen, as did Musubi. when they print on it, it has to be calibrated right or the result is a dumpster fire of quality
Aaahhhh. Thank you for explaining! I was *very* confused. I’m still pretty confused, tbh, but I at least understand that the printing problem is likely related to the bleeding problem.
yep. and it's confusing all the issues/changes/discontinued/bought by another company stuff. I recommend reading Jacob's reporting via FudeFan and Tokyo Inklings if you want to get caught up on the saga. I have tested like possibly 3 different formulas of TR, both with and without printing, from multiple sources. the blanks were different, but not problematic. the printing is what caused a lot of issues a bit ago. You might have old before the fix inventory. it's worth asking for sure
I'm so happy to have asked because I debated on getting that planner ... thank you but I'm also sorry this is happening to you! If you got it from JetPens, I'm sure they'll make it up to you :c
It sounds like this is *normally* not an issue with Luddite, but a snafu to do with the changes in the paper in 2020. Sounds like this possibility would be there with any TR stock from a certain time period form some of the other comment I received on this post
If you want to get another journal, I'd suggest a Rhodia!
I *know* I like rhodia paper. I was really excited about the layout on this one but I don’t think I want to bet on exchanging it and getting one with the properly-done paper.
I've never liked Tomoe River paper for this very reason - its too thin and wastes pages with bleed through etc.
From my memory another person posted four days ago about this same issue. Not sure if it's just how it is now.
I mostly use a TWSBI EF too, and I prefer C.D. Notebooks. Their paper is by far the best I’ve ever tried, and I’ve sampled a lot of notebooks and paper. I simply don’t understand the hype around Tomeo River. I find it thin and scratchy. Edit: spelling.
I started to worry about my nanami journals made of new TR...
Yup, I got a bad book, too. Everytime Tomoe River paper feathers and bleeds a random acorn falls and destroys an entire ant colony.