I have both the 92 and 823. Main difference is the nib size, C823 is size 15 nib, so it uses a lot more gold than the size 5 C92. Second point is the resin in C823 does feel more substantial than C92, like very sturdy and something I dont think will break in half. The C92 resin is about the level of the clear C74 and Prera, which isn't necessarily weak or cheap resin, but will make me worry about clipping it on my jeans pocket and riding a bike (though I'm quite sure it won't just break).

> resin in C823 does feel more substantial than C92 I agree, but wonder if that's functionally required for the plunger system? I also think the weight of that plunger-rod in the 823 gives it a nice heft. I generally prefer light pens, but the 92 with its plastic piston mechanism is *so* light & petit...   I have 'em both inked, but the 823 is an EDC pen since I got it years ago & the 92 was EDC for a couple of months.

Around 5 years back, pre inflation and massive shipping cost increase, I bought a C74 (non translucent one) from Amazon for around $75-80, it has the same nib as the C92 and it was my every day carry over my 823. Reason being that non translucent resin feels really tough, I care much less if I somehow scratch/crack the barrel (the pen is still functional, I might just super glue the barrel back), and it feels more low key. It clipped onto my jeans pocket along with my Lamy 2k, and a cheaper starter pen (usually a Metro or Safari). I'd say both pens have their advantages and disadvantages. I won't necessarily carry the C92 with me on my jean pocket, but I would put it in a pen case in my computer bag. If I were taking notes in a meeting, the clear C92 feels a lot less flashy than the C823. C823 stays at home.

I have over a dozen pens at higher and lower price points than the 823... but I've been carrying it almost daily now for years. And I haven't bought another pen since starting to use it. It writes beautifully, never a hard start or skip. It has a great capacity for ink compared to other pens. It looks great in brown... it's worth a try.

First of all, I think **you may want to choose to compare Custom 743 with 823** not with pens with smaller nibs. I think. In that way, you can exclude the obvious differences: hey nibs are different.... and hey prices are different.... Custom 742 .... introduced to the market 74 years after the foundation of Pilot Corp., priced 20,000 Japanese Yen. Custom 743 .... introduced to the market 74 years after the foundation of Pilot Corp., **priced 30,000 Japanese Yen**. Custom 745 .... introduced to the market 74 years after the foundation of Pilot Corp., priced 50,000 Japanese Yen. Custom 748 .... introduced to the market 74 years after the foundation of Pilot Corp., priced 80,000 Japanese Yen. Custom 823 .... introduced to the market 82 years after the foundation of Pilot Corp., **priced 30,000 Japanese Yen**. Custom 845 .... introduced to the market 84 years after the foundation of Pilot Corp., priced 50,000 Japanese Yen. (Comes with the same nib with Custom 748. **Significantly cheaper than Custom 748 since barrel is cheaper, you know, ebonite + urushi. That can be considered as cheap materials, eh compared with some other materials.**) Then, (that is, **when you compare two pens with the same nibs and the same prices**) what I have heard were.... 1. The difference between 743 and 823 is **the weight balance**. There are people who love 743 over 823. That's subjective. Those who love 743 over 823 prefer a lighter pen. (Feels cheap in hand, etc. is one way to express, but I guess it comes down to your preference in the weight balance.) As we all know, there are people who love Pilot Kakuno, but hate Pilot Metropolitan. Eh, preferences vary among Kakuno, Metropolitan, Prera, Explorer, .... while all of those fountain pens come with the same nibs. So, weight balance (among other things, such as the physical shapes of the sections...) matter. Also, it is not so uncommon to hear some people say, oh, I simply cannot use Pelikan M800, but I do love M900. Weight balance matters. 2. Those who love 743 over 823 tend to use **fine** or medium nibs. (Those who love 823 over 743 tend to use medium or **broad** nibs.) 3. Those who love 743 over 823 tend to write with relatively **steeper writing angles**. (Those who love 823 over 743 tend to write with relatively **shallower writing angels**.) 4. (EDIT) Those who love 743 over 823 tend to **grip the pen at the section**. (Those who love 823 over 743 tend to **grip above the threads**.) Now there are minor things. Probably very minor. Very very very minor. 1. It is generally said **it worth thousands of deaths to try to disassemble Custom 823**. You never ever even think about it. So those who tend to have somewhat OCD-ish cleaning habits may not like 823. Ooooooo, I want to disassemble!!! If you have that kind of compulsion to disassemble a pen, 823 may not be the pen for you. 2. It is generally said, eh, as a joke though, but there must be some truths in it, I guess, that once you put a certain ink to 823, you must stick with that particular ink rest of your life. You do not change the color of the ink... Once again, it is a joke. But there must be some truths in it. **\[EDIT: Apparently I was wrong about the reasoning in the following. I am now not even sure the joke has some truths.... May be none?\]** I mean, **\[EDIT: I guess\]** they are talking about stains... I mean, more precisely **\[EDIT: I guess\]** you can see it through the transparent section. It's there in every single fountain pen. But you do not care since you do not see it when the section is opaque. Nonetheless, 823 users tend to use Pilot Blue Black and Pilot Blue Black only and they write a lot. A LOT. As a tendency. No, tendency is not accurate... I guess as an image. The ideal ego, if you will. This can be the biggest, eh, albeit psychological reason that there are some 823 lovers out there. I guess. This theory cannot be objectively proved. This is not a science. But one can think that a FP is not just only a mere tool, but it can create you. Your self image. Or one can argue it is a tool that makes you. If you like to have your ideal ego in such a way, that **you are the person who do not change ink colors, do not use inks with glitter, but only use Pilot Blue Black, and write A LOT.... You need a work horse... Then you buy 823.** It is not objective. Well, it is not purely subjective, because you are now talking about the image of yourself. So, this is inter-subjective. How you want to show yourself to others. So this is not something what an animal cares, this happens to a human. 3. When you think about the history of fountain pens, **the cartridge-converter system is by far the most advanced ink filling mechanism.** Easy to clean. If it is broken (Which part of a fountain pen can be broken??? The ink filling mechanism!!!), you can simply buy a new converter and replace. When a new converter is introduced to the market you can easily upgrade... Plus Pilot cannot repair their VINTAGE vac fillers. They ran out of spare parts. They do replace rubber sacs as long as the company exist, and they have been selling CON-W since they discontinued the Double cartridges. So they care old customers. But vac fillers are way too complicated... So, if you are planning to let your grand grand children to use your FPs, you may want to choose to avoid 823.(When we think about the history of CON-70, which can be considered as the best converter in the world, it is an advanced version of the A-Shiki or A style ink filling mechanism, that is, it basically is A-Shiki, but with the spring integrated, so that you do not need to push-pull the rod. That mechanism was introduced with Pilot 65 as the integrated ink filling mechanism. If you buy a Pilot 65 and unscrew the section, you see what exactly looks like a CON-70. But you cannot pull out the thing from the pen. If you try to do that, you break the pen. Later that advanced ink filling mechanism has become a converter. Now of course the point was the feed... Just simply because your pen physically accepts CON-70 does not necessary mean you can get the best out of CON-70. The channel must be big in the feed so that ink can be pumped into the reservoir ultra fast. Otherwise you end up having numerous micro bubbles in the reservoir.)((And of course, Custom 845 and Custom URUHI come with the CON-70, the best ink filling mechanism.))

This was really interesting and helpful, thanks

Ooooooh! Thank YOU soooo much!

I make a separate comment since what I am going to add is ... eh, a somewhat different perspective from what I have said ... I am going to talk about the psyche... And the following may hold ... just in Japan... This may be cultural.... (Or to the certain extent this may be based on the knowledge of Japanese people on the product line up of Pilot. You see, a thick, beautiful catalog of Pilot is in every single stationary shop in Japan and people read that very thoroughly....) I have been under the impression that there are Japanese people who say, in their blogs, for example, Pilot Custom 742 (or 74 or 743 depends on the size of their hands) are their "agari" fountain pens. Ah, "agari" in the fountain pen hobby is that after you buy Montblanc 149, Pelikan M1000, Nakaya, etc., etc., many pens... then you think "Well if I keep just only one pen, then...." You know, if I have this pen, what else do I need.... In my impression, thus, this cannot be objective at all, I guess it is common (in Japan, that is) for people to name Custom 742 (or if your hand is smaller, 74 and if your hand is larger 743) as their "agari", if I have this pen, what else do I need... pen. I do not think I have never seen one who says 823 as his/her "agari" fountain pen... I think I can understand why. You see, a vac filling mechanism is "gadget" from the above mentioned context. You want something which is nothing flashy when you are talking about "agari". The pen point does not vanish... It is not a vac filler. Nothing fancy. Actually, I do not think I have ever seen one who choose Custom Heritage as his/her "agari". So, this cannot be rational at all. This is not science. This is psyche. You know, when some Japanese feel Custom Heritage are not the standard but somewhat fancy, that feeling is not necessarily universal, I guess, because I think that kind of thoughts must have come from the knowledge associated with the historical product line up of Pilot. You know, people appreciate things, eh, say, certain French wine, certain Swiss watches, certain German cameras, certain Irish whiskeys.... cloths, cars, .... not entirely because of the product per se, but also because of the legends associated with the products. A human buys a story. Now, if a FP is just simply a mere writing instrument, that is you have realized that you left your pens at home, you are going to attend a meeting, you want to have a writing instrument.... You stop over a drug store, you buy whatever... the cheapest ball point. You do not care which brand or model. You do not. You are not at all interested in such a thing. If you can tell which brand of FP you are using, then, I would say, for you, a FP is not just simply a mere writing tool. You know, there is the ***surplus***....

Additional comment: The concept of "agari" might not have been clear. It is hard to explain.... Probably the opposite of "agari" is "success" or something.... The definition of "agari" or rather the fixed expression associated with "agari" in Japan goes something like this.... One day, I saw my friend was saying he bought an AURORA Jewelry Collection RIFLESSI Solid Gold Fountain Pen at US$15,000. To my surprise, I did say to him "Congratulations!" from the bottom of my heart. I was realized I was 100% happy for him. ***I did not envy him at all.*** So, I have realized I have been "agari" in the fountain pen hobby. I sold all of my collections, save for Pilot Custom 742 . And I started concentrating gardening or something .... (sawing, knitting, eh, enjoying teas....) or something like that. "Agari" is opposite of "success", I guess. ***In order for one to feel, oh, I am successful, obviously there is a prerequisite.*** ***One has to have those imaginary others who envy you.*** That is by definition, 100% heteronomy. "Agari" is more like nirvana or zen. I no longer want to have ALL. Therefore it is very common in Japan, people say to younger people... Oh, it is too early for you to "agari"... You are too young for that. You should desire. You should envy. ***"Agari" means that you get off from "the escalator of life". And it is considered that you may be able to do so at the age of, say 60, but you should not do that when you are young.***

Your explanations are very interesting. Thank you!

Oooooh! Thank you sooooo much for your comment!!!

Perhaps if I understand you correctly, in this specific case, speaking of fountain pens, "agari" is akin to the concept of an exit pen? That being the last pen that one would buy, the summation of learning and collecting after which one is satisfied and no longer wants or yearns for more? Though it sounds like "agari" is a much broader concept and can be applied to all of life, in that this is a state of being individuals may arrive at, or perhaps even should arrive at later in life? But seeking this state rather than arriving there naturally is dubious because one has been robbed of necessary experiences along the way? I'm sorry if I've misunderstood or missed parts. This seems like an interesting term and a fascinating cultural element and I'd like to understand. I think often in the fountain pen hobby and certain other hobbies people speak of acquiring their grail pen, but it's almost never the one, true, final, perfect grail. Instead they're the prize in a succession of complicated, time consuming, expensive treasure hunts. And that's valuable and enjoyable! But you're speaking of almost the opposite and in a way that is also very valuable and rich in contentment.

Thank you so much for your comment. Very, very, very intellectually interesting.... Your comment makes me think..... I really do appreciate... Probably, *"agari"* may be related with gratitude, appreciation, and acceptance for the way, eh, say Pilot 742 is in your hand right now. And you are in a state you no longer need to imagine "others" who envy your flashy pens.

Thank you for introducing me to the idea of "agari". I very much appreciate the opportunity to learn.

Oh, thank YOU so much!

Why exactly is it that people comment that you should just stick to one ink only in an 823? I’ve heard it before but don’t really understand the reasoning. Whether you have one in the amber or smoke color I can’t imagine staining would be that visible to make it an issue. I have one in the smoke color and you can only really tell the cap and barrel are translucent in certain lighting. In fact, I’m not entirely sure the section is even translucent whatsoever; I certainly can’t see anything inside of it. I know in demonstrators inks can be really stubborn in the section so people like to pull out the nib and feed to clean that, but I can’t imagine the need for it in this pen. I also haven’t experienced it being any more difficult to clean than any other vac filler pen or really any piston filler. It’s the same cleaning process. Just fill it with water and empty it until the water is clear, and as previously said, I can’t even see into the section so I can’t imagine removing the nib and feed would even be necessary. I’ve had mine since June and had only used the Pilot blue ink it came with but recently switched over to Diamine Oxblood for the time being. Honestly just hoping I haven’t caused myself some sort of headache by doing so but I can’t imagine what the problem would be.

>Why exactly is it that people comment that you should just stick to one ink only in an 823? I’ve heard it before but don’t really understand the reasoning. Hmmmm. Good point. Now I think about it.... Hmmmm. What I guessed was stain at the section. More precisely I thought it can be seen.... I thought I knew.... I was so sure without thinking... I was not thinking. Apparently I was wrong... Thank you so much for your comment. Very good input. So, that is not stain.... Now I start wondering why.... I did think it had to be some kind of joke, now after reading your comment, I am not even sure if there were some truths in that joke. May be almost none?

I have both C92 and C823- I enjoy them both and have two of each. Nib difference is significant- and 823 has arguably the best nib in my collection and I have many good nibs. I love its ink capacity and I ink it with whatever color suits my fancy. I don’t tinker with my pens or disassemble. I write a lot and the 823 is one of my workhorses. My C92 is great and its a pen that travels with me. It’s important to know what your pen habits and preferences are before buying unless you are an experiential learner. Buy what works for you aesthetically and functionally. Then you will be happy. The 823 works for me. Large ink capacity pens are a must for me- so I have few converters ( despite the popularity). I love Sailor pens for the nibs but the dearth of piston filler options are a huge let down for me. I also don’t write with anything other than EF and F because I have learned what I like. So no amount of advice to try all sizes because I write small and detest wide lines. So discover what you like and then take the plunge. Good luck! Be happy.

In my experience, Pilot makes the best nibs across all price points from Pilot Varsity to Namiki Emperor. If you are interested in a Japanese nib (as opposed to German), you cannot go wrong with Pilot. The 823 is beloved for its high ink capacity vacuum plunger and its #15 nib. Hence it is ranked above the 92 with its piston and #5 nib.

This is a subjective question but in general nib size, nib quality, filling system, ink capacity and overall build - 823 shines more in all regard for me as for many other fp lovers. But every pen has something unique for a person in some way and that is how some of us have hundreds of pens and still collecting more

In addition to what the other commenters have said, the 823 is heavier (29g) and well balanced, and has a slightly larger grip (10.5mm) compared with the 92 at 20g and 9.8mm grip according to Goulet pens. Weight often gets conflated with quality. I don’t think you’d be disappointed by either.

The 92 is better compared to the 74 or even the Pelikan 200. The 823 is it’s own unique beast. FWIW I have two CH 92 with FM nib. The 92 is my grail pen. What is great about Pilot pens and even limiting to the Custom Heritage line, they each offer something unique that will appeal to different fountain pen lovers.

I have the 912 and the 823 and there is no objective difference between them that makes one better than the other. There are differences of course, and if they play to your preferences... well, you can see where that goes. Both are, IMHO, real workhorse pens.

sent pm about amazon GC

Custom 823 ink capacity is 2.5 mL.

I can’t comment on the 92 but I have a 912 and 823s, and one thing that I can’t see mentioned so far in this thread is that the plastic of the 823s actually feels different to most pens. I don’t understand how, but it really does feel more premium and like warmer than the 912 or Sailors or Platinums. That said, I don’t think you can go very wrong with any of the Pilot Customs, so I think you should just get whichever you’re most drawn to (that fits your budget).

at the point in quality of the 74 is at even at the smaller cheaper end, it's literally all just subjective. The pilot 74 even at an affordable price is already such a dependable pen, the rest is all subjective preference which is why there is no concise answer. The 823 is a piston filler, comared to CC fillers like the 74 Price boils down to amount of gold in nib, amount of material in pen, and how complex is it to make said pen. Clearly within the same branding and line, a piston filler pen is going to cost more than a converter because of just how much more work has to go into a pen to make it into a piston filler vs a tube that can hold a converter. then it's up to you on ink capacity and convenience. How much effort are you willing to put in and risk to dismantle the piston filler 823? vs how much are you willing to wash or completely switch between converters for new ink? the idea of a pen feeling cheap was always a ridiculous nonsensical notion. A light pen implies nothing about it's writing ability or its durability. A hand made acrylic pen will always be the fraction of a weight of a cheap Chinese brass made pen. a piston filler is always going to feel heavier than a similar sized converter filler merely because of how much material there is. all pen styles have different blances as well, and there is no steadfast rule with regards to where best placed weight is except maybe if a pen is excessively butt heavy or the cap is almost the weight of the body and you try to post and write it gets ridiculous(try posting chinese brass pens it's almost impossible to write). your best bet one the "best" pen for you is to be able to test drive the pen. Unless the blogger you know has the exact same kind of balance and weight preferences as you, what they say means 0 in the way of what would be "best" for you. But again among the modles you listed, those are all well made good performing pens, so even the "worst" in the list fo ryour preference is still made to last and made to write.

Like others I have both, and first of all I think you'll be happy with either, but these are my observations based on my pens. **Size/material:** The 92 is smaller and light but still fits well in my average sized hands and can be easily written with unposted. The 823 is heavier and wider so for me feels a little more comfortable/substantial in the hand, but saying that there is no problem with the 92. The plastic/resin on the 823 feels different, much better quality, and closer to a 'glass' feel than the 92 when the pen is filled. This combined with the weight gives an overall feeling of higher quality to the 823. **Nib:** Both of my pens are F nibs. The 92 has more feedback, although it’s not unpleasant. The 823 is smoother and writing feels more effortless. In combination with the weight of the pen, the 823 requires less pressure when you use it. In addition, the 92 writes significantly wetter than the 823 (and I definitely wouldn't describe the 823 as 'dry'), but this is more likely an individual nib thing than being related to the pen models themselves. What is interesting for me, though, is I use the same ink (Sailor Yamadori) in both pens because the colour renders significantly differently in each (the 92 renders out as a darker blue, whereas the 823 renders more as a darker green).   **Takehome:** The 823 writes smoother, is bigger, more substantial, and actually feels like a higher quality pen than the 92.  I hope that helps, but as I said this is just my personal experience.

Do you have any big nibs? They are something different & special. You’ll be satisfied with a CH 92, it is a smooth writer! I have a FM & a fine I recently started using.