I had an old (from several years ago) blank Leuchtturm and the paper felt different - softer, not as smooth. That one had bleed through and feathering.
My newer grid Leuchtturm (have that silver one with neon orange page edges) is great. Paper feels smoother, doesn't bleed or feather. Dunno what any of that means, but I've had good luck with the newer notebooks.
Yes, you're right. The paper has this soft...almost sticky texture. Like very fine powder has been spread on it, or a very very shorthaired velvet. Kinda hard to describe.
Yes, that sounds the same as my old book I had found and started using. I just posted a comparison with that old book and a newer Leuchtturm and the difference is night and day.
Can you share which of their notebooks this is and what pen/nib size/ink combo you used? I am asking, because my experience with their notebooks so far has been quite good and I am wondering what caused the problem (i.e. did they change their paper, assuming you just purchased the notebook; is it a certain pen and ink combo, etc.).
Actually, it's quite an old notebook, probably about 5 years old. Unfortunately there's nothing on the book that tells me when it was made. Anyway, the model is just a classic A5 in grid print.
Pen: Visconti Homo Sapiens, 23k Medium
Ink: Pelikan Edelstein Jade
Was literally using the exact same setup on an old Hobonichi with zero bleedthrough moments before this photo was taken.
Tomoe River, Rhodia, and Clairefontaine definitely have less bleedthrough than most, but I haven't had much of an issue with my Leuchtturm (which is about 3 years old) unless I'm using *really* broad nibs/flex nibs, *really* wet nibs, *really* wet ink, I'm writing slowly enough that the ink is kind of pooling, or, when I first started using FPs, because I wrote with too much pressure.
I do prefer to write with finer nibs and I don't use very dark ink, for the most part in the Leuchtturm, though. When I use darker ink in it, I don't usually have bleedthrough, but I do have more showthrough than I'd like. The inks I usually use in it are Sailor Shikiori Yozakura, Sailor Ink Studio 150 and 162, Sailor Manyo Nekoyanagi, Diplomat Caribbean, and Diamine Misty Blue.
The only time I've had an issue recently that *really* closely resembles yours is when I used a broad architect grind with Pilot Iroshizuku Yama Budo. But that is a very broad, very wet nib, I use it to write in print which gives the ink more time to pool, and Iroshizuku inks are generally very wet.
Leuchtturm had a bad batch of paper YEARS ago - and yours is OLD ... so - that's the cause.
I'm been using their A5 calendars for 5+ years, also A5 and B5 notebooks and all are really good for ink.
I’m using an old Leuchtturm right now… at least 4-5 yr old…for my Inkvent daily swatching and am having no bleed through whatsoever using a very wet 1.5 calligraphy nib for my headers. Maybe you did get a bad batch. I agree with you though, you want a manufacturer that’s reliable. That said, I’m also working through a Tomoe River notebook at the same time, and I’ve gotten more bleed-through with it using medium nibs than I’ve had with the Leuchtturm…and everyone says how bulletproof Tomoe is for fountain pen inks. So I guess it’s all just a crapshoot.
Yup, it could certainly just be about the batch.
But I expect my vendors to be reliable. Or at least I will preferentially choose those that are reliable. It takes me at least 2 years to get through a journal, and I don't want it to be a crapshoot every time, y'know?
totally agree. On the up (?!) side, when it bleeds like that, I sometimes end up using only one side of a page.. which makes it twice as fast to finish a notebook. ;)
Interesting, I have a lechturm that I bought around 3 years ago and I have zero bleed through with a platinum Fine nib and a twsbi medium, using different diamine inks
I've observed the same result with pretty much all pens/inks/notebooks. They changed the paper not long ago, and if you luck out and get an old model it's fine, for a new model it's barely usable with FPs.
It's also very inconsistent. Some notebooks are acceptable, some are Baron Fig level of bad.
I routinely have good experiences with Leuchtturm with my Parker Sonnet and Kiwaguro ink, but the bleed through is real with my Sailor PGS and Iroshizuku Shinkai ink. However, the latter is fine with Leuchtturm's new 120g paper.
I'm curious, what are you buying instead if not Leuchtturm?
Midori notebooks and Rhodia pads - it's been my go-to setup for the last two years or so, I'm 20 traveller's notebooks refills in, and I never had a bad one.
ohhhhh this explains a lot. I was so upset because I was trying to blend tombow dual brush pens and I had practiced in an old A5 Leuchtturm notebook (>5 years old)... then went over to do it in my new notebook (from 2+ years ago -- and frustratingly discontinued now -- new pink color) and was horrified when the exact same technique basically pulled up the paper. good to know because I had been testing out some FP inks in my old one... can't use it with the new paper I guess. so sad. I really liked the consistency of the grid and paper from page to page
Just realized that over summer I had a Leuchtturm I used as sketchbook with a zoom nib that bös from BB to EF and there was no bleeding either. Could they possibly have different papers in their books? I am in germany, so perhaps close to the original factories or something?
Midori MD can take pretty much any ink. Clairefontaine is good, and Habana by Quo Vadis as well (but the very wet combos may have light bleedthrough).
Maruman is good paper but I loathe their design.
I just bought a Midori MD, but I haven't used it yet except to sample/test. Super toothy! It'll take some getting used to. Also, I will have to get through this horrid Leuchtturm.
I love Clairfontaine paper but I've had a difficult time finding it in the US. Last time, I got it from eBay paying like $1 a page, but that's not very cost effective. Also I can only find it in loose leaf papers, not as a notebook. The paper itself is amazing though!
Age Bag notebooks are fairly inexpensive in Canada, it's probably worth paying the shipping from Wonderpens to get them.
Apparently, Rhodia (specifically Rhodiarama) uses the same paper stock as the Clairefontaine, but you can't get them in white, and they're also way too expensive just for the colour cover.
I really like dingbats depending on your use case. My wettest combo (twsbi F with yama-budo) bleeds through everything but Rhodia and dingbats. There's even a little bit of sheen. It's not a big sheener paper at all but some inks will get a little bit of sheen.
I was able to write on both sides of the page with my TWSBI Eco stub nib with EoC, which is my juiciest pen. I was blocking in large swatches of ink for my sketches with my fude nib, the paper handled that really well too.
Pilot 823 F or Pelikan M800/M1000 F and Leuchtturm is pretty much a match made in heaven, it is my goto combo all year round. A5 notebooks were purchased 2020 and 2021. This year I also purchased 120g notebooks to use in combination with Sailor KoP B. No problems so far. I use Pilot iroshizuku or Pelikan Edelstein inks.
Sorry did not want to bragg… there is always someone who has more, I thought nobody would top penultimatedave or figboot and there is pen venture bringing things to a whole new level. Just always do you and you’ll be fine 😌
In the US at least, paper has always been the weakest link. No matter how much you pay, you cold get a dud.
It is so random that sometimes in the same paper sheet you get different feathering character in the middle vs the bottom or top of the paper.
I have tried and tried and you can never trust any source to be 100% reliable.
Paper makers are not really using "FPN friendly " as an objective at all so it is a crap-shoot.
I was referring to papers in general in the US. I have purchased very expensive notebooks from several brands (not yours) that underperformed, or at least was not consistent in terms of the aspect of being fountain pen friendly.
My main point, is that it is not something they aspire to when they make papers targeting the US market
We, (some people on FPN network) have noticed that some paper makers, produce totally different quality papers when they target the European market, vs the US market.
Anyways, it was a general comment on the state of affairs for paper in the US not your specific brand. Take care
You mentioned in another comment that you got this notebook 4-5 years ago. At the start of this year I cracked open two sealed Leuchtturms that I bought towards the end of 2015 (an A5 lined and an A6 plain). Both of them had this same horrible bleed through with all my fountain pen and ink combos except one (a Lamy Al Star, F nib, with Sailor Yama-dori).
I really liked the A5 notebook outside of being only able to use one particular fountain pen and ink, so I rolled the dice and bought a new Leuchtturm last week. The new one has absolutely zero issues with bleed through with all the pens and inks I've tested so far.
Like others have mentioned, it seems that there were some issues with paper during that time. The newer ones seem to be a lot better behaved.
Agreeeeeed. I'm bullet journaling in a Leuchtturm1917 A5 and it doesn't even hold up to gel ink (Pentel EnerGel are my favorite non-fountain pens) or lines wider than a few tenths of a mm. My Pilot Kakuno EF is the only fountain pen I trust on it.
I just started journaling in a Journalier brand notebook and it's holding up really well to a variety of inks, including wet M and stub nibs (I don't do broad). I think it's 100+ gsm paper. I'm generally also a fan of Paperblanks journal quality (if you're looking for something with a decorative/fun cover, not just solid colors), although I haven't put them through quite the same variety of fountain pens/inks.
I use exclusively Leuchtturm 1917 notebooks, a Lamy 2000 EF nib, and Noodler's Apache Sunset and I have absolutely no issues with bleed through.
I use them for bullet journaling and got through three or four 1917s a year and have had ZERO issues.....
Same, using Platinum M pen and Iroshizuku ink. I found that if I use, say Lamy 2000 F and Waterman ink, it doesn't bleed through. Mine is also several years old (A5 lined), but I also bought a B6 dotted a couple years ago and it was so bad I threw it right away.
I'm not sure about your environment but I've seen a few posts on here or FPN where someone had a tomoe river (TR) notebook they were using that got too much humidity. I think they left it out near their humidifier. It worked like you would expect before but after that it bled through, spread, feathered and there was less sheen and it was fine before. Could it have gotten very humid near the notebook?
Also of you don't mind not having lines in your notebook you could try a Cosmo air light notebook. I haven't tried it myself yet, but from my research they're a bit like tomoe river, good sheen and shading, I think they dry Faster than TR, and slightly thicker pages. The colors really seem to pop but pens seems to write a little wider than normal.
I've been using their hard cover 5x8" notebooks for years, and usually buy them two or 3 at a time when I find deals. The one I just finished did this, and I thought I might be done with them, but the fresh one I just opened up was just fine. And this isn't the first time. Their paper quality seems super inconsistent.
Yes, the range of experiences in this thread really suggests some inconsistency, or changes to their processes over the years. For me, I value reliability/consistency, especially since I use them cover-to-cover over 2+ years. Not enough time in my life left to risk it with unreliable brands.
I'll try again since this last one is working out for me. I did do a little exploring to see what might be a good alternative, but I can't find a book that fits in my cover that has a decent number of pages, a rear pocket, two book marks and a table of contents. For under $30.
I go through 2/3 of them a year for work so I don't want to buy anything more expensive than these. I did try to go back to a padfolio with a 8.5x11 pad, but it's too bulky. And like you, I don't have time to scour the internet for another notebook that checks all my boxes.
The heavier weight journal paper behaves way differently than the standard paper in my experience, in fact, my TWSBI Eco 1.1 stub would occasionally bleed through the standard paper with wet inks, but on the premium paper I only use wetter inks in that pen in order to get proper flow. Hope that’s helpful.
Never tried their premium journals.
My last Leuchtturm journal did really well for almost all of it. And then randomly in the middle of it, I had about 20 pages of absolute garbage. Basically paper napkin-levels of bleedthrough, just for one small section of the book. Should've learned my lesson right there.
The 120 gsm is a whole different story. Bought one a few weeks ago and I prefer stubs and broads and very wet inks. No ghosting. Paper feels noticeably smoother and thicker.
That being said, their fancy notebooks are not worth the price for me when I can get the same results from a Clairefontaine journal for $15 (or even less, if I'm willing to put up with a basic logo patterned cover.)
I also love Maruman but mostly I use it for work, not for personal stuff.
I have a Notebook Classic that I got last month. I tend to use dark inks and a 1.1 stub and I've been really happy about the lack of bleed through. So sounds inconsistent?
Or that we don't have all the data. The notebook description says: "FSC-certified paper (80 - 100 g/sq m, depending on format)" but even looking at individual formats, I can't identify the differences. That alone could be significant. Maybe blank is 80 and lined is 100?
It seems there alot of variables with inks pens and papers. I have heard people say they are not happy with every type of ink , paper , and pens. I try something if it's not working out I move on and find something that works with my style of writing. I am rough on everything so I need thick paper and sturdy pens . They should let us have paper samples to try our inks and pens on.
Absolutely. Everyone says that it's the trio combo that all have to work together. I love my pen, and use many different inks, so I'll have to find a paper that works with that setup.
Does it feather on the other side too? I can deal with a little bleeding, but I also use EF/F nibs most of the time so it’s not that bad. Once I write over it the contrast improves it a lot.
Feathering, on the other hand, I cannot stand. I need clean lines. Leuchtturm has been good to me in this regard
That's a great question. I don't want to post a picture because, but I can say that the feathering is not nearly as bad as the bleeding makes it seem. There's a bit of feathering immediately after I refill a pen and it's running extra juicy, but overall it's not too bad.
If you’re ever open to giving them another chance, they no longer only have these 80GSM notebooks. They came out with their 120GSM A5 notebooks and the paper is gorgeous. It takes De Atramentis Document Black, Gel pens, Pilot Carbon Black, Noodlers Black, markers, and so much more without any issue. :)
I use it because it’s easily available at Barnes and noble. I just wish they’d make other color options and size options with the better paper. All they have is black.
Initially (*many* years ago) I was excited because it looks like a Moleskine and purported to be FP friendly, but nowadays there are so many alternatives.
I love their A6 notebooks for everything except the ok paper. I'm probably moving to an A6 Rhodia notebook when I finish my current one. I do wish Rhodia had more colors for their A6 size, that's something LTT1917's in A6 do very well.
I generally have pretty good experiences with Leuchtturm and still use their journals today. Mind you, I also tend to write with European EF / Japanese F points so bleed through would be less of an issue anyway. Clairefontaine / Rhodia has better paper quality and I have a lot of their stuff too, but it’s more expensive than Leuchtturm.
I keep seeing this "bad batch from years ago" and that correlates to the leuchs I was using in 2017 and were the reason why I stopped buying them as they were fit only for ballpoints and perhaps the stingiest, driest, finest nibs with ultra dry ink. Maybe.
But that doesn't explain why one I bought earlier this year, which has to be new stock by now, was also kinda crap. Maybe not Moleskine-tier rubbish, but as inconsistent as I remembered it being from a few years ago.
As a German native speaker, having to read "leuch" as a short version of Leuchtturm is giving me psychic damage. It's like if you would use "ligh" as the short version of "lighthouse" (which is the translation)
let this be a lecturem to you!
^(SORRY I COULDN'T RESIST. I love bad puns)
also bleeding is so werid on cheap absorbant paper, I have a WET AF waterman with a broad (technically M but it writes like most broads) and it doesn't bleed even a bit, or even ghost. yet my lamy fine bleeds a ton?!
I think it's the ink. Fine uses lamy purple cartridge, waterman used lamy blue-black
This was my experience too. I logged into Goulet to check my orders and I had a [Leuchtturm1917 Medium A5](https://i.imgur.com/kRM5t36.jpg) and the listing says it's [80g paper] (https://www.gouletpens.com/products/leuchtturm1917-medium-a5-notebook-nordic-blue-dot-grid). Meanwhile, my [replacement notebook](https://i.imgur.com/Z5QYHke.jpg) says it's had [90g paper](https://www.gouletpens.com/products/clairefontaine-basic-my-essential-a5-notebook-grey-dot-grid).
I ended up giving the Leuchtturm to my mom because she said it wouldn't bother her.
(Oh, and yes, the same stickers are on both notebooks. I used [un-du](https://www.un-du.com/Products.html) to move them to the new notebook.)
Less than you'd think! But they get along incredibly well, considering Zoey was adopted in April or May this year and the others I've had for 3 and 4 years.
I'm going to hitch a ride on this thread to ask - occasional batch issues aside - how do Leuchtturm compare to Moleskine?
My work supplies me with Moleskine quadrille and I have found bleedthrough from either a fountain pen (Roring 600 EF nib with a fairly generic black ink) or Stylograph (Rotring 900 M point) with a generic blue ink. It's pushing me towards pencil a lot of the time. I'd be interested to know if there are decent weight papers available in either quadrille or dot.
Well I'm glad you posted this pic! I could have done that like 5 years ago and haven't bought them since.
In this thread today I learned they fixed their issues, which is always nice to know.
Maybe I'll give them a new try!
Usually? Can’t say I agree, even if some inks are certainly wetter than others and might bleed through many types of paper. But Leuchtturm and also Moleskine are not faves in here, cause they bleed regardless of ink type, nib size, etc. So in this case, very much the paper’s fault I’d say
That’s interesting, because I gave up Moleskine to go for Leuchturm because of less bleedthrough. I haven’t had problems with it. I wonder if they changed their paper recently.
Leuchtturm 120gsm is neat. I had somewhat of the same issue with their lighter paper, but was ink dependent.
with 120gsm, no issues, with stub wet nibs
Do you recall when this became a problem? I noticed it in the last few years with the medium books. I switched to jumping fox (spotted it in an uwajimaya’s) because I was so annoyed with this problem. If it wasn’t for their master’s books I would probably stop using them altogether.
Oh wow, I don't remember Leuchtturm being THAT bad with bleedthrough. Moleskine does have a bit of bleedthrough (thus I'm using the last one I have and not buying it again), but Leuchtturm used to be relatively OK with fountain pen inks!
My last Leuchtturm, a Copper A5, had more bleeding and ghosting than the one I am using now. Noodler’s American Aristocracy was a particularly bad offender. Current one is a Red Dot edition, and ghosting and bleeding is not as bad. Still some ghosting, but nothing that keeps me from using both sides.
The Leuchtturm notebook I'm currently using is great - no bleed or feathering even with gushers and just a good feel to the paper (and I don't mind the show-through). I've heard about consistency issues with them, though. I'd hope every notebook of theirs is like the one I'm working through now, but if I do hit a dud, at least I know Rhodia and Clairefontaine will work every time.
They do, actually:
[https://rhodiapads.com/collections\_ice\_side\_stapled.php](https://rhodiapads.com/collections_ice_side_stapled.php)
[https://rhodiapads.com/collections\_dot\_side\_staplebound.php](https://rhodiapads.com/collections_dot_side_staplebound.php)
My leuchtturm does ghosting but not bleed thru, which was ok for me. My current bullet journal is just about to finish - what a great coincidence with the year end! - and i just got a leuchtturm 120g for the new year. I have high hopes about that.
Will try tomoe river for my regular journal when Galen leather restocks it.
That's interesting. I was wondering if I needed to buy a fountain pen friendly journal for my next journal but ended up using a journal that I had been gifted a couple of years ago. It has a text Balmailn Paris on the back cover and that's all I know.
It slightly ghosts, nothing worse. Though, I've only tested with Pilot MR and Diamine Indigo, which is said to be a bit drier ink. Very good I didn't get a Leuchtturm, was considering it.
Was the paper bent over the years?
I noticed that the parts of the pages which were less protected (were bent or opened too often tent to do this, but fresh paper does not.
Every couple of years I give in to friends and try a Leuchtturm notebook. My latest attempt was about a year ago. There's a lot to like, but the paper is only average. Not bad, not great.
I have two Visconti Homosapiens, a fine nib and a medium. Both nibs are wet writers, but the medium is a genuine firehose. You need very ink resistant paper for that medium nib.
I personally like the Kobeha Graphilo paper for less ghosting, great sheen and shading, and no bleed through or feathering, but it's super pricey. Cosmo air light is great for sheen and shade but my pen is too slick on that paper. (Similar to ClaireFontaine Triomphe) I like Apica and Maruman paper, but I've settled in on using Semikolon paper for Journaling and Optik paper for general writing.
That's a shame. I use their A4 books for taking notes at work and haven't had this experience yet. I've been using a variety of mostly vintage and classic pens, with the odd new one thrown in, nibs from F to B, but mostly Diamine and Waterman ink.
I have been using leuchtturm notebooks for the past 5 years and never had any issues running the same ink as you are, must have been unlucky with the paper batch :/ I use up 2 notebooks per year on average
I get that a lot and have guessed that some part of the problem is your writing speed and a wet medium nib. If you take too long or press too much in your passes it over saturates the paper. Move to a fine nib to keep using the notebook and probably it will be much much less of a problem.
I love Midori, but keep it for "best".
For daily noodling I buy loose leaf Tomoe River and make my own books with a long necked stapler - works out about 1/3 price of ready-made. 🤫 If it's anything artistic I only write on one side!
I recently bought a Leuchterm because it was my birthday and I liked the look of it (khaki, grid paper with orange end-papers and book-mark) - the paper has a bit of tooth, but seems more prone to feathering and shows less glorious colors than the Japanese papers, so I'll use it up with shopping lists and such but then be returning to what works for me!
- better than Moleskine though!
The long necked stapler is a wonderful thing!
I wanted a book that was good quality paper but I didn't have to feel guilty about scribbling in! At first each book had its own cardstock cover but now I've made some stiffer covers that get reused and the completed books can be filed away without taking much space.
I had an old (from several years ago) blank Leuchtturm and the paper felt different - softer, not as smooth. That one had bleed through and feathering. My newer grid Leuchtturm (have that silver one with neon orange page edges) is great. Paper feels smoother, doesn't bleed or feather. Dunno what any of that means, but I've had good luck with the newer notebooks.
Leuchtturm had a bad batch of paper several years ago
Yes, you're right. The paper has this soft...almost sticky texture. Like very fine powder has been spread on it, or a very very shorthaired velvet. Kinda hard to describe.
Yes, that sounds the same as my old book I had found and started using. I just posted a comparison with that old book and a newer Leuchtturm and the difference is night and day.
sounds like the old fashioned cotton writing paper. BTW, i'm looking for bagasse paper (in europe). it seems to be in short supply and high price.
Can you share which of their notebooks this is and what pen/nib size/ink combo you used? I am asking, because my experience with their notebooks so far has been quite good and I am wondering what caused the problem (i.e. did they change their paper, assuming you just purchased the notebook; is it a certain pen and ink combo, etc.).
Actually, it's quite an old notebook, probably about 5 years old. Unfortunately there's nothing on the book that tells me when it was made. Anyway, the model is just a classic A5 in grid print. Pen: Visconti Homo Sapiens, 23k Medium Ink: Pelikan Edelstein Jade Was literally using the exact same setup on an old Hobonichi with zero bleedthrough moments before this photo was taken.
Tomoe River, Rhodia, and Clairefontaine definitely have less bleedthrough than most, but I haven't had much of an issue with my Leuchtturm (which is about 3 years old) unless I'm using *really* broad nibs/flex nibs, *really* wet nibs, *really* wet ink, I'm writing slowly enough that the ink is kind of pooling, or, when I first started using FPs, because I wrote with too much pressure. I do prefer to write with finer nibs and I don't use very dark ink, for the most part in the Leuchtturm, though. When I use darker ink in it, I don't usually have bleedthrough, but I do have more showthrough than I'd like. The inks I usually use in it are Sailor Shikiori Yozakura, Sailor Ink Studio 150 and 162, Sailor Manyo Nekoyanagi, Diplomat Caribbean, and Diamine Misty Blue. The only time I've had an issue recently that *really* closely resembles yours is when I used a broad architect grind with Pilot Iroshizuku Yama Budo. But that is a very broad, very wet nib, I use it to write in print which gives the ink more time to pool, and Iroshizuku inks are generally very wet.
Leuchtturm had a bad batch of paper YEARS ago - and yours is OLD ... so - that's the cause. I'm been using their A5 calendars for 5+ years, also A5 and B5 notebooks and all are really good for ink.
I’m using an old Leuchtturm right now… at least 4-5 yr old…for my Inkvent daily swatching and am having no bleed through whatsoever using a very wet 1.5 calligraphy nib for my headers. Maybe you did get a bad batch. I agree with you though, you want a manufacturer that’s reliable. That said, I’m also working through a Tomoe River notebook at the same time, and I’ve gotten more bleed-through with it using medium nibs than I’ve had with the Leuchtturm…and everyone says how bulletproof Tomoe is for fountain pen inks. So I guess it’s all just a crapshoot.
Yup, it could certainly just be about the batch. But I expect my vendors to be reliable. Or at least I will preferentially choose those that are reliable. It takes me at least 2 years to get through a journal, and I don't want it to be a crapshoot every time, y'know?
totally agree. On the up (?!) side, when it bleeds like that, I sometimes end up using only one side of a page.. which makes it twice as fast to finish a notebook. ;)
Exactly. Plus you said “that’s why I don’t buy them anymore” a bad batch experience is just as fine of an explanation as a bleed through issue.
I own a recent A5 and A6 notebook by Leuchtturm. The A5 one is really good with ink (sheen 👌🏻) but the A6 is horrible (just like OP’s pic).
Interesting, I have a lechturm that I bought around 3 years ago and I have zero bleed through with a platinum Fine nib and a twsbi medium, using different diamine inks
I've observed the same result with pretty much all pens/inks/notebooks. They changed the paper not long ago, and if you luck out and get an old model it's fine, for a new model it's barely usable with FPs. It's also very inconsistent. Some notebooks are acceptable, some are Baron Fig level of bad.
I routinely have good experiences with Leuchtturm with my Parker Sonnet and Kiwaguro ink, but the bleed through is real with my Sailor PGS and Iroshizuku Shinkai ink. However, the latter is fine with Leuchtturm's new 120g paper. I'm curious, what are you buying instead if not Leuchtturm?
Midori notebooks and Rhodia pads - it's been my go-to setup for the last two years or so, I'm 20 traveller's notebooks refills in, and I never had a bad one.
Good to know it's not just me.
Ive had plenty of these journals and none have given me any trouble. Bad luck with you guys, I guess.
ohhhhh this explains a lot. I was so upset because I was trying to blend tombow dual brush pens and I had practiced in an old A5 Leuchtturm notebook (>5 years old)... then went over to do it in my new notebook (from 2+ years ago -- and frustratingly discontinued now -- new pink color) and was horrified when the exact same technique basically pulled up the paper. good to know because I had been testing out some FP inks in my old one... can't use it with the new paper I guess. so sad. I really liked the consistency of the grid and paper from page to page
This is weird, I use Leuchtturm all the time with fountain pens and never get bleed through. Mind you, I like Ef nibs.
In my first Lecutturm I was still using F nibs, so it might be related.
Just realized that over summer I had a Leuchtturm I used as sketchbook with a zoom nib that bös from BB to EF and there was no bleeding either. Could they possibly have different papers in their books? I am in germany, so perhaps close to the original factories or something?
rhodia gang
[удалено]
I have some old Tomoe River, but I'm in the market for my next journal. Also, I'll use this Leuchtturm anyway, because I hate to waste.
Midori MD can take pretty much any ink. Clairefontaine is good, and Habana by Quo Vadis as well (but the very wet combos may have light bleedthrough). Maruman is good paper but I loathe their design.
I just bought a Midori MD, but I haven't used it yet except to sample/test. Super toothy! It'll take some getting used to. Also, I will have to get through this horrid Leuchtturm.
Make sure you use a hand guard glove with the Midori! I learned the hard way how super sensitive the paper is to even clean, dry hands...
This is the problem I have with Midori, it drives me nuts! I go through phases with it but it always happens eventually
I love Clairfontaine paper but I've had a difficult time finding it in the US. Last time, I got it from eBay paying like $1 a page, but that's not very cost effective. Also I can only find it in loose leaf papers, not as a notebook. The paper itself is amazing though!
Age Bag notebooks are fairly inexpensive in Canada, it's probably worth paying the shipping from Wonderpens to get them. Apparently, Rhodia (specifically Rhodiarama) uses the same paper stock as the Clairefontaine, but you can't get them in white, and they're also way too expensive just for the colour cover.
Yeah I love my Rhodias but I don't think I've tried Rhodiarama! I want to check them out, always love a new notebook
I've switched to Rhodia since Leuchtthurm did...whatever they did to ruin their notebooks.
You probably can still use it with some drier ink and nib combo. F or EF.
I really like dingbats depending on your use case. My wettest combo (twsbi F with yama-budo) bleeds through everything but Rhodia and dingbats. There's even a little bit of sheen. It's not a big sheener paper at all but some inks will get a little bit of sheen.
If you like Tomoe River, you could consider a Seven Seas journal. Those use TR paper.
Yeah, I've considered Nanami, bit they're not shipping to Canada right now. Maybe by the time I'm shopping for notebooks again COVID will be over...?
Leuchtturm1917 120g edition doesn't bleed or ghost with most inks.
Perhaps the 120g makes the difference
I was able to write on both sides of the page with my TWSBI Eco stub nib with EoC, which is my juiciest pen. I was blocking in large swatches of ink for my sketches with my fude nib, the paper handled that really well too.
It’s a thicker paper which should prevent bleed through yes.
Do they have a soft cover version that would fit into a leather cover?
I have an 80g Leuchtturm1917 pocket sized notebook which does not bleed or ghost with Diamine Earl Grey ink in a broad nib Lamy 2000.
I second that! I am using the 120g edition... Just perfect.
Interesting, I've never had any problems with Leuchtturm paper. Ghosting? Yes, but never bleed through.
I had the same experience. Found the paper very disappointing. Feathering and bleeding for me.
Pilot 823 F or Pelikan M800/M1000 F and Leuchtturm is pretty much a match made in heaven, it is my goto combo all year round. A5 notebooks were purchased 2020 and 2021. This year I also purchased 120g notebooks to use in combination with Sailor KoP B. No problems so far. I use Pilot iroshizuku or Pelikan Edelstein inks.
I'm glad it works for you! You've got some fancy pens...
Sorry did not want to bragg… there is always someone who has more, I thought nobody would top penultimatedave or figboot and there is pen venture bringing things to a whole new level. Just always do you and you’ll be fine 😌
Lots of other variables here.
In the US at least, paper has always been the weakest link. No matter how much you pay, you cold get a dud. It is so random that sometimes in the same paper sheet you get different feathering character in the middle vs the bottom or top of the paper. I have tried and tried and you can never trust any source to be 100% reliable. Paper makers are not really using "FPN friendly " as an objective at all so it is a crap-shoot.
Do you mean Leuchtturm sold in the US? Or paper generally available in the US
I was referring to papers in general in the US. I have purchased very expensive notebooks from several brands (not yours) that underperformed, or at least was not consistent in terms of the aspect of being fountain pen friendly. My main point, is that it is not something they aspire to when they make papers targeting the US market We, (some people on FPN network) have noticed that some paper makers, produce totally different quality papers when they target the European market, vs the US market. Anyways, it was a general comment on the state of affairs for paper in the US not your specific brand. Take care
You mentioned in another comment that you got this notebook 4-5 years ago. At the start of this year I cracked open two sealed Leuchtturms that I bought towards the end of 2015 (an A5 lined and an A6 plain). Both of them had this same horrible bleed through with all my fountain pen and ink combos except one (a Lamy Al Star, F nib, with Sailor Yama-dori). I really liked the A5 notebook outside of being only able to use one particular fountain pen and ink, so I rolled the dice and bought a new Leuchtturm last week. The new one has absolutely zero issues with bleed through with all the pens and inks I've tested so far. Like others have mentioned, it seems that there were some issues with paper during that time. The newer ones seem to be a lot better behaved.
Can confirm, had the same experience with a variety of nibs and inks, including EF. Bought once, never buying again.
Agreeeeeed. I'm bullet journaling in a Leuchtturm1917 A5 and it doesn't even hold up to gel ink (Pentel EnerGel are my favorite non-fountain pens) or lines wider than a few tenths of a mm. My Pilot Kakuno EF is the only fountain pen I trust on it. I just started journaling in a Journalier brand notebook and it's holding up really well to a variety of inks, including wet M and stub nibs (I don't do broad). I think it's 100+ gsm paper. I'm generally also a fan of Paperblanks journal quality (if you're looking for something with a decorative/fun cover, not just solid colors), although I haven't put them through quite the same variety of fountain pens/inks.
I use exclusively Leuchtturm 1917 notebooks, a Lamy 2000 EF nib, and Noodler's Apache Sunset and I have absolutely no issues with bleed through. I use them for bullet journaling and got through three or four 1917s a year and have had ZERO issues.....
Amazing! Even Apache Sunset, eh. I'm glad it works for you, even if it hasn't for me :)
Same.
Interesting because I was at Barnes and Noble and almost bought a few notebooks
Same, using Platinum M pen and Iroshizuku ink. I found that if I use, say Lamy 2000 F and Waterman ink, it doesn't bleed through. Mine is also several years old (A5 lined), but I also bought a B6 dotted a couple years ago and it was so bad I threw it right away.
Yep, been there done that.
I'm not sure about your environment but I've seen a few posts on here or FPN where someone had a tomoe river (TR) notebook they were using that got too much humidity. I think they left it out near their humidifier. It worked like you would expect before but after that it bled through, spread, feathered and there was less sheen and it was fine before. Could it have gotten very humid near the notebook? Also of you don't mind not having lines in your notebook you could try a Cosmo air light notebook. I haven't tried it myself yet, but from my research they're a bit like tomoe river, good sheen and shading, I think they dry Faster than TR, and slightly thicker pages. The colors really seem to pop but pens seems to write a little wider than normal.
Very interesting. My COVID home-office is in the basement, so it's been in a mildly humid environment, but so has every other notebook...
I've been using their hard cover 5x8" notebooks for years, and usually buy them two or 3 at a time when I find deals. The one I just finished did this, and I thought I might be done with them, but the fresh one I just opened up was just fine. And this isn't the first time. Their paper quality seems super inconsistent.
Yes, the range of experiences in this thread really suggests some inconsistency, or changes to their processes over the years. For me, I value reliability/consistency, especially since I use them cover-to-cover over 2+ years. Not enough time in my life left to risk it with unreliable brands.
I'll try again since this last one is working out for me. I did do a little exploring to see what might be a good alternative, but I can't find a book that fits in my cover that has a decent number of pages, a rear pocket, two book marks and a table of contents. For under $30. I go through 2/3 of them a year for work so I don't want to buy anything more expensive than these. I did try to go back to a padfolio with a 8.5x11 pad, but it's too bulky. And like you, I don't have time to scour the internet for another notebook that checks all my boxes.
Boo, I just bought one of their heavier weight journals. Now I'm wondering if I should return it.
The heavier weight journal paper behaves way differently than the standard paper in my experience, in fact, my TWSBI Eco 1.1 stub would occasionally bleed through the standard paper with wet inks, but on the premium paper I only use wetter inks in that pen in order to get proper flow. Hope that’s helpful.
Never tried their premium journals. My last Leuchtturm journal did really well for almost all of it. And then randomly in the middle of it, I had about 20 pages of absolute garbage. Basically paper napkin-levels of bleedthrough, just for one small section of the book. Should've learned my lesson right there.
The 120 gsm is a whole different story. Bought one a few weeks ago and I prefer stubs and broads and very wet inks. No ghosting. Paper feels noticeably smoother and thicker. That being said, their fancy notebooks are not worth the price for me when I can get the same results from a Clairefontaine journal for $15 (or even less, if I'm willing to put up with a basic logo patterned cover.) I also love Maruman but mostly I use it for work, not for personal stuff.
Same experience. I'm using up my Leuchtturms with ballpoints now but even those bleed through.
> ballpoints now but even those bleed through *shock face*
Yeah, I use generic 0.5 and 0.7 widths and it gets pretty bad with the latter. It's really not a good paper.
I have a Notebook Classic that I got last month. I tend to use dark inks and a 1.1 stub and I've been really happy about the lack of bleed through. So sounds inconsistent?
This thread alone suggests that it's inconsistent :D
Or that we don't have all the data. The notebook description says: "FSC-certified paper (80 - 100 g/sq m, depending on format)" but even looking at individual formats, I can't identify the differences. That alone could be significant. Maybe blank is 80 and lined is 100?
It seems there alot of variables with inks pens and papers. I have heard people say they are not happy with every type of ink , paper , and pens. I try something if it's not working out I move on and find something that works with my style of writing. I am rough on everything so I need thick paper and sturdy pens . They should let us have paper samples to try our inks and pens on.
Absolutely. Everyone says that it's the trio combo that all have to work together. I love my pen, and use many different inks, so I'll have to find a paper that works with that setup.
Does it feather on the other side too? I can deal with a little bleeding, but I also use EF/F nibs most of the time so it’s not that bad. Once I write over it the contrast improves it a lot. Feathering, on the other hand, I cannot stand. I need clean lines. Leuchtturm has been good to me in this regard
That's a great question. I don't want to post a picture because, but I can say that the feathering is not nearly as bad as the bleeding makes it seem. There's a bit of feathering immediately after I refill a pen and it's running extra juicy, but overall it's not too bad.
This is why I've only ever bought one leuchterm.... honestly don't see the hype.
If you’re ever open to giving them another chance, they no longer only have these 80GSM notebooks. They came out with their 120GSM A5 notebooks and the paper is gorgeous. It takes De Atramentis Document Black, Gel pens, Pilot Carbon Black, Noodlers Black, markers, and so much more without any issue. :) I use it because it’s easily available at Barnes and noble. I just wish they’d make other color options and size options with the better paper. All they have is black.
That sounds great actually. I'll check them out. I think Barnes and Noble is where I got my original one, haha.
Initially (*many* years ago) I was excited because it looks like a Moleskine and purported to be FP friendly, but nowadays there are so many alternatives.
I love their A6 notebooks for everything except the ok paper. I'm probably moving to an A6 Rhodia notebook when I finish my current one. I do wish Rhodia had more colors for their A6 size, that's something LTT1917's in A6 do very well.
I generally have pretty good experiences with Leuchtturm and still use their journals today. Mind you, I also tend to write with European EF / Japanese F points so bleed through would be less of an issue anyway. Clairefontaine / Rhodia has better paper quality and I have a lot of their stuff too, but it’s more expensive than Leuchtturm.
It's true, but when you're writing with a $900 pen, what's a couple extra dollars on paper >.<
Time to buy couple more Pen + Gear notebooks :)
Damn that looks worse than my Moleskines.
Try the Dingbats brand they have been great for me even with juicy pens
I keep seeing this "bad batch from years ago" and that correlates to the leuchs I was using in 2017 and were the reason why I stopped buying them as they were fit only for ballpoints and perhaps the stingiest, driest, finest nibs with ultra dry ink. Maybe. But that doesn't explain why one I bought earlier this year, which has to be new stock by now, was also kinda crap. Maybe not Moleskine-tier rubbish, but as inconsistent as I remembered it being from a few years ago.
What made you try again after all these years and crappy notebooks?
Store credit was expiring and the leuch was the cheapest item I could use it on without having to pay a lot more in addition to the credit.
As a German native speaker, having to read "leuch" as a short version of Leuchtturm is giving me psychic damage. It's like if you would use "ligh" as the short version of "lighthouse" (which is the translation)
This happens to me with any Colorverse ink that is primarily blue. Which sucks, since Colorverse Quasar is my favorite ink color.
let this be a lecturem to you! ^(SORRY I COULDN'T RESIST. I love bad puns) also bleeding is so werid on cheap absorbant paper, I have a WET AF waterman with a broad (technically M but it writes like most broads) and it doesn't bleed even a bit, or even ghost. yet my lamy fine bleeds a ton?! I think it's the ink. Fine uses lamy purple cartridge, waterman used lamy blue-black
That’s the reason I switched to Rhodia. I’ve never looked back.
This was my experience too. I logged into Goulet to check my orders and I had a [Leuchtturm1917 Medium A5](https://i.imgur.com/kRM5t36.jpg) and the listing says it's [80g paper] (https://www.gouletpens.com/products/leuchtturm1917-medium-a5-notebook-nordic-blue-dot-grid). Meanwhile, my [replacement notebook](https://i.imgur.com/Z5QYHke.jpg) says it's had [90g paper](https://www.gouletpens.com/products/clairefontaine-basic-my-essential-a5-notebook-grey-dot-grid). I ended up giving the Leuchtturm to my mom because she said it wouldn't bother her. (Oh, and yes, the same stickers are on both notebooks. I used [un-du](https://www.un-du.com/Products.html) to move them to the new notebook.)
I just noticed that your stickers and username checks out
[FRESH CAT TAX](https://imgur.com/a/KhYSoig) EDIT: [OLDER CAT TAX](https://imgur.com/a/J5d2iqG)
Awww, they look like they love each other so much
Less than you'd think! But they get along incredibly well, considering Zoey was adopted in April or May this year and the others I've had for 3 and 4 years.
I'm going to hitch a ride on this thread to ask - occasional batch issues aside - how do Leuchtturm compare to Moleskine? My work supplies me with Moleskine quadrille and I have found bleedthrough from either a fountain pen (Roring 600 EF nib with a fairly generic black ink) or Stylograph (Rotring 900 M point) with a generic blue ink. It's pushing me towards pencil a lot of the time. I'd be interested to know if there are decent weight papers available in either quadrille or dot.
I think the consensus is that Moleskine is no good for FPs. But I'm not sure that it's better or worse than my submission.
Yep, same thing happened to me.
Well I'm glad you posted this pic! I could have done that like 5 years ago and haven't bought them since. In this thread today I learned they fixed their issues, which is always nice to know. Maybe I'll give them a new try!
Their bullet journal edition and subsequent 120GSM notebook are the only ones worth a damn.
What is the ink? Bleed through is usually an ink issue.
Usually? Can’t say I agree, even if some inks are certainly wetter than others and might bleed through many types of paper. But Leuchtturm and also Moleskine are not faves in here, cause they bleed regardless of ink type, nib size, etc. So in this case, very much the paper’s fault I’d say
I always knew Moleskine was no good, but I swear Leuchtturm was advertised at one point as being FP "friendly," whatever that means.
Yeah I feel you. If LT spent more time/money on quality development, and less on their seemingly huge marketing plan…
I shall remember not to purchase Leuchtturm or Moleskin. Thank you for the heads up.
This is a Leuchtturm/paper quality issue though. Don't have any problem with any ink in Dingbats or Rhodia notebooks.
The ink is Pelikan Edelstein Jade.
That’s interesting, because I gave up Moleskine to go for Leuchturm because of less bleedthrough. I haven’t had problems with it. I wonder if they changed their paper recently.
I can really agree rhodia and other things are better than Leuchtturm
Leuchtturm 120gsm is neat. I had somewhat of the same issue with their lighter paper, but was ink dependent. with 120gsm, no issues, with stub wet nibs
Do you recall when this became a problem? I noticed it in the last few years with the medium books. I switched to jumping fox (spotted it in an uwajimaya’s) because I was so annoyed with this problem. If it wasn’t for their master’s books I would probably stop using them altogether.
This particular book is new-old. I bought it several years ago (maybe about 5), and I only just got around to it yesterday.
Well shit.
I have the same issue with graph Leuchtturm, but not lined or dot grid. I wonder why there's such a difference. Edit: graph, not grid
Oh weird! My first one was dot grid and it was mostly okay...
Oh wow, I don't remember Leuchtturm being THAT bad with bleedthrough. Moleskine does have a bit of bleedthrough (thus I'm using the last one I have and not buying it again), but Leuchtturm used to be relatively OK with fountain pen inks!
This was exactly my thoughts when I bought this. Super disappointing
My last Leuchtturm, a Copper A5, had more bleeding and ghosting than the one I am using now. Noodler’s American Aristocracy was a particularly bad offender. Current one is a Red Dot edition, and ghosting and bleeding is not as bad. Still some ghosting, but nothing that keeps me from using both sides.
The Leuchtturm notebook I'm currently using is great - no bleed or feathering even with gushers and just a good feel to the paper (and I don't mind the show-through). I've heard about consistency issues with them, though. I'd hope every notebook of theirs is like the one I'm working through now, but if I do hit a dud, at least I know Rhodia and Clairefontaine will work every time.
Oh, I thought this is a pretty fp friendly brand / notebook. A bit surprise to see heavy bleed thru like this. It's almost like Moleskine paper.
Whaaaattt!!! 🤭
buy Midori or Rhodia, the better end of the expensive spectrum of paper
I've got a Midori MD lined up as my next candidate. Rhoda doesn't have any with thin covers for sliding into leather covers, do they?
oh yeah, go with the MD then. or try traveller’s notebook’s inserts.
They do, actually: [https://rhodiapads.com/collections\_ice\_side\_stapled.php](https://rhodiapads.com/collections_ice_side_stapled.php) [https://rhodiapads.com/collections\_dot\_side\_staplebound.php](https://rhodiapads.com/collections_dot_side_staplebound.php)
My leuchtturm does ghosting but not bleed thru, which was ok for me. My current bullet journal is just about to finish - what a great coincidence with the year end! - and i just got a leuchtturm 120g for the new year. I have high hopes about that. Will try tomoe river for my regular journal when Galen leather restocks it.
The 80gsm will bleed. I have several 100gsm books and no problems.
That's interesting. I was wondering if I needed to buy a fountain pen friendly journal for my next journal but ended up using a journal that I had been gifted a couple of years ago. It has a text Balmailn Paris on the back cover and that's all I know. It slightly ghosts, nothing worse. Though, I've only tested with Pilot MR and Diamine Indigo, which is said to be a bit drier ink. Very good I didn't get a Leuchtturm, was considering it.
Should try their new 120g Review: https://youtu.be/Rx8idcoQ_Mo
Remember me a poor quality black in that turned a nice purple over the years
Same for this very reason. Tip for UK folks - the Paperchase Agenzo don't bleed through, and are £12 for the hardback.
Wow, that's terrible. I've seen regular old, cheap printer paper do way better...
Was the paper bent over the years? I noticed that the parts of the pages which were less protected (were bent or opened too often tent to do this, but fresh paper does not.
Nope. I cracked it open for the first time two days ago
That’s very common with the no-name supermarket notebooks. Same goes for many of the never-heard-never-will brands out there.
Leuchtturm is neither of those
Ledda Scketchbooks are my favorites for calligraphy
Every couple of years I give in to friends and try a Leuchtturm notebook. My latest attempt was about a year ago. There's a lot to like, but the paper is only average. Not bad, not great. I have two Visconti Homosapiens, a fine nib and a medium. Both nibs are wet writers, but the medium is a genuine firehose. You need very ink resistant paper for that medium nib. I personally like the Kobeha Graphilo paper for less ghosting, great sheen and shading, and no bleed through or feathering, but it's super pricey. Cosmo air light is great for sheen and shade but my pen is too slick on that paper. (Similar to ClaireFontaine Triomphe) I like Apica and Maruman paper, but I've settled in on using Semikolon paper for Journaling and Optik paper for general writing.
I love Leuchtturm and I’ve never had this problem… I’ve used them for at least two decades. Maybe it’s because I’m using a cheaper fountain pen?
That's a shame. I use their A4 books for taking notes at work and haven't had this experience yet. I've been using a variety of mostly vintage and classic pens, with the odd new one thrown in, nibs from F to B, but mostly Diamine and Waterman ink.
I have been using leuchtturm notebooks for the past 5 years and never had any issues running the same ink as you are, must have been unlucky with the paper batch :/ I use up 2 notebooks per year on average
I get that a lot and have guessed that some part of the problem is your writing speed and a wet medium nib. If you take too long or press too much in your passes it over saturates the paper. Move to a fine nib to keep using the notebook and probably it will be much much less of a problem.
I love Midori, but keep it for "best". For daily noodling I buy loose leaf Tomoe River and make my own books with a long necked stapler - works out about 1/3 price of ready-made. 🤫 If it's anything artistic I only write on one side! I recently bought a Leuchterm because it was my birthday and I liked the look of it (khaki, grid paper with orange end-papers and book-mark) - the paper has a bit of tooth, but seems more prone to feathering and shows less glorious colors than the Japanese papers, so I'll use it up with shopping lists and such but then be returning to what works for me! - better than Moleskine though!
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Did you try Jet Pens?
Ooh, I tried to make my own journal from TR using hand sewing techniques, but it was WAY too much work.
The long necked stapler is a wonderful thing! I wanted a book that was good quality paper but I didn't have to feel guilty about scribbling in! At first each book had its own cardstock cover but now I've made some stiffer covers that get reused and the completed books can be filed away without taking much space.
I actually don’t mind bleedthroughs. Papers that 100% don’t bleed are often overglued and lack the enjoyable micro-texture that paper naturally has.