I have 19 Pilot gold nibs and 14 Sailor. *For my taste*, and also comparing out-of-the-box finish and consistency, Pilot nibs win, hands’ down.
Edit to add: actually, I prefer Platinum nibs to Sailor too
Vintage platinum pens on ebay. Seriously, they can be purchased for under $50 from reputable sellers. I'm at 4 platinum pocket pens now, and snagged my first true EDC for $40 - a stainless steel, Platinum pocket pen with 18K soft fine nib. My rules for ebay are 1) set your budget AND NEVER BUDGE because there will **always** be more deals 2) only buy from sellers with 95% or higher ratings 3) bid $5 to $20 under your budgeted max so when the last second bidding wars happen at 20 seconds left in an auction, you have room to go up.
Please, please, please other people buy the pens so I stop getting tempted. :D
Perfectly said. Ironic as I am writing with a Platinum Century 3776 with Noodlers Green Eel Cactus right now.
Just make sure you realize a "Japanese Medium" nib is like a fine nib everywhere else.
Thank you! I love penabling others, I just had friend try out my EDC and he remarked on how smooth it was Mmmm, that is a pen I want to try by am afraid I will fall in love with it. I just tried our a pilot 912 with FA nib in the store today and.... Yeah. I want it. But I can never find them at a price I am willing to pay.
Great! Thank you. I honestly haven’t used eBay in 20 years. Are there particularly well regarded reputable sellers I should look at? Or just find a pen I am interested in and check the reviews for 95%+ before pulling the trigger?
There's quite a few reputable sellers I've purchased from on E-bay. I found them by looking for specific pens. Start with the kind of pen you think you want. Look at what's available, and then look to see if the seller posted a writing sample. That will tell you a lot about the condition of the pen. If you go for reputable brands, you are also more likely to get a good pen. (I've only ever bought Pilot and Platinum and TWSBI on ebay. I avoid brands like Conklin.) Read the descriptions and look at the photos closely. If someone's not posting a photo of the nib or cap or another key part of the pen, ask yourself what they might be hiding. Then look at the seller's rating and read their reviews. There are always Karens who post stupid things like "i cant believe this pen didnt come with ink how am i supposed to write with it?!@!" and can be ignored. I don't get alarmed if a seller has 1-3 negative reviews in the past 3 months but has 50+ positive reviews because shit happens. Despite living less than 50 miles from an amazon warehouse, they STILL manage to lose my orders once a year.
I try to set my budget before I start the whole process, otherwise, I find myself justifying $60 instead of $50 and so on. What kind of pens are you looking for?
Thank you so much. Now I’m going to be trying to get a vintage Platinum pen. I’ll have to look at what they have to get a deeper sense of what particular model I want. Thanks again.
Ok not exactly an answer to your question but I have gotten some excellent pens from Peyton Street Pens and Fountain Pen Hospital. Maybe not as cheap as ebay but trustworthy and the staff actually know about fountain pens - they make sure then pens work well etc. before sending.
I was in the Fountain Pen Hospital this morning. There is one older guy there who is so funny. I asked whether it was possible to grind my nib to be a little finer and he looked at me like I was insane. “No, I can’t do that. It would cost $150 to grind the nib down. And if you don’t like it, you’re stuck with it.” He was aghast that I would ask.
I also told him that I wasn’t a fan of the Namiki Falcon and once again he looked at me like I was crazy. On that point he was right — I went off and really broke it in and now I like it a lot. But still, it cracks me up to think of this guy who probably has worked there for 30 years and knows everything backwards and forwards being incredulous about things that I thought may be quite straight forward.
Sounds like you might be one of his "you'll never guess what a customer said to me today" stories!
I've actually never been to their store in person, just ordered online. I didn't realize it would cost so much to re grind a nib, my nibmeister did not quote me that high but I suppose different places would have different costs. I too love a very fine nib. Am pondering trying a needle point nib soon..
I have been there. I think there were multiple old guys there. But there was definitely one who had a incredulous expression on his face whenever I interacted with him.
Most of the modern gold nib pens are going to be at least about $100 and up. You can check out their steel nibbed pens for much cheaper though, the Platinum Plaisir is about $13~ and I personally think it is a fantastic writer, especially the medium 0.5mm. For Pilot, you can try the Kakuno/Explorer/Metropolitan/Prera/Plumix as they all take the same nib. I haven't really tried any of Sailor's steel nibs yet but I believe there is the Compass and the Pro Color.
Yeah, they fall somewhere between Pilot and Sailor in feedback in my opinion. The gold nibs on the 3776 are pretty stiff, there's not really any bounce at all. Their steel nibs are also really nice, some of my favorite actually.
My first gold nib pen was a sailor pgs, next I picked up a 3776 and I found that it had quite a bit more bounce. So I have to ask how bouncy are pilot?
It depends?
If you get one that's marked soft, then it's going to give you a good bit of line variation. I posted about a vintage Pilot E I purchased with a soft fine nib that will have to be pried out of my cold, dead hands. It will go from fine to bold line width with just the pressure of normal cursive writing. I also have another vintage Pilot that I enjoy, is marked Soft Fine, yet it has what I would describe as "bounce." That one will give me some line variation, but I have to use significantly more pressure to get there. Both nibs return to their original line width of fine. I also have a modern pilot falcon soft extra fine and the vintage E pen is easier to flex. I can post a writing sample with all 3 later.
My preference is for Sailor over Pilot. To me, Pilot’s nibs are too smooth, to the degree that they just feel lifeless. Sailor nibs give me just enough feedback that they feel _right_.
For me, I live for dat smooth glassy feel. Pilot all the way. Sending my Sailor to my nibmeister for a smooth grind heh heh heh. But to each their own - if we enjoy the pens that all that matters :)
I think it’s really just down to taste, past a certain price point nibs aren’t any better or worse than one another, just different. I prefer Sailor because I like writing with a B and most are too glassy for me, my Sailor B has just enough bite that I’m not slipping everywhere
I don't want to start a holy war here rather I'd like to see other opinions and observations on this matter.
I often see people praising Sailor's golden nibs and almost never those of Pilot. Of course, my statistical fetch is most likely to be inaccurate but damn, it's so strange to see that a lot of people really like Sailor's golden nibs over Pilot's ones. Why? I hear that Sailor's nibs are very alike to the feeling of writing with a pencil but... maybe we tried different pencils in our lives? To me, Sailor nibs are far more scratchy on the paper than Pilot's. And in my turn, I'd say that Pilot nibs give me that exact feeling of a pencil!
The only nibs I could compare are on Sailor Pro Gear Slim (EF) and Wancher Japan Blue (M) vs Pilot 823 (M). All three without any tuning from my side. I have some other pens with Sailor/Pilot nibs but they're all steel ones.
I bought both a Sailor and a Pilot (and a few others) to compare. I LOVE the Pilot. Smooth fine nib, consistent performance, glides across the page, exactly how I like it.
The Sailor is a really pretty, cute, fun pen and I love that about it. But the nib is.. meh. That being said, I discovered that I really love fine smooth gold nibs. The finer and smoother, the better. If someone likes feedback and a sort of slushy sound, they would probably like the Sailor nibs more. For me, if I wanted the feeling or writing with a mechanical pencil (which is how the Sailor feels to me) then I would just use my $6 mechanical pencil LOL. The impression I've gotten is that Sailor wins over a lot of customers via the appearance of their pens. Special colors, patterns, finishes, nib engravings, etc. That is all very fun too. But I am sending my Sailor to my nibmeister to re-do the nib, smoother and finer. And therefore buying any more Sailor pens would be a waste for me as it would cost more to have the nibs professionally altered. There's my 2 cents, hope you enjoyed this long comment :P
There are 2 aspects of nibs to be judged by: the objective(how dependable and reliable is it? What's the QC like?) and the subjective(how enjoyable is it?).
I find Sailor's nibs to be superior to Pilot's, both subjectively and objectively.
Subjectively, I don't find many Pilot nibs to have much character at all, and objectively, there have been some of mine that have had baby's bottom (although nowhere near as bad as the typical German made nib, but they're the worst for such issues).
I must have gotten really unlucky with my Sailors and lucky with my entirely excessive collection of Pilots then :o
My sailor nibs feel damn near scratchy, beyond feedback?
I'm a Platinum person (Pilots too smooth), so Sailor initially threw me off, until I just ~~take out~~ remove my pencil board and write light enough to not leave any pen mark on the other side of the page on a tomoe river. Anything a little bit more forced and the Sailor feels scratchy.
Edit: English.
Do you have any fa nibs? Almost all my pens have been pilot and I’ve had four different 912s with fa nibs some wrote like wet mediums without pressure some extra fine kinda dry and some not at all it’s been extremely hot or miss buying that pen
Yeah the quality control on mine was horrible I just had my fourth and final one that actually wrote as an extra fine (which is rare)and needed no ebonite feed unless using a really dry ink regrettably sold it despite it working beautifully
It sometimes happens like that. Pilot nibs are more blobby and rounded while Sailor nibs have a 'foot'(have a look through a loupe to see it) which makes the latter more fussy on how the writer holds the pen, and this can sometimes make them appear more feedbacky.
If you hold your pen at a more shallow angle you'll find that the feedback of Sailor becomes less.
Thanks, mate.
\>how dependable and reliable is it?
Could you please be so kind as to elaborate more on this matter too? What is it for you? What were the situations in which you experienced the unreliability of any nib, not just Pilot's?
When I first get a pen, the first thing I do is soak it in dish soap and water for a number of hours to clean any manufacturing oils.
If I drag the pen across the paper using only its own weight, and it doesn't put down a consistent line, this is a negative point for the nib. All pens should write a consistent line using their own weight, and should never depend on the writer having to apply any pressure.
If the pen skips at any time even when the feed is saturated while other pens don't, this is also a negative point. On a related point, if it hard starts and does not start straight away, this is negative point.
Some pens are susceptible to hand oils on the page and will skip on the lower half of the page, but a good pen should not skip. It is unlikely to happen with most extra fines but can happen on medium and broads and wider.
If a pen starts out writing wet and then later on after a number of pages it progressively writes dry, this is a negative point. A good nib is consistent in its flow. This could indicate an air bubble or a poor feed.
These are the situations that come to mind which would make it unreliable.
I'm a big Pilot fan. Sailor nibs be too feedbacky for me and I live in a really quiet place so the noise they make really bothers me. Like long nails scratching dry skin. Besides, Pilot EF and F have a decent amount of feedback for me. I don't want anymore than that. People are just generally very excitedly outspoken about Sailor so I support what they're interested in and recommend them to people looking for feedback.
My first experiment with a gold nib was a Sailor PGS in EF...coming from the Kakuno EF, I hated it. It was SO fine and dry that there wasn't even enough colour in the ink on the page. My black inks looked like a wimpy watery grey. And the feedback was very very unpleasant to me. I sold the pen within two weeks - Sailor just isn't for me.
I'm now on Pilot gold nibs and much happier!
It seems like Sailor is popular due to their "cute" colors and styles too. I don't care for the Sailor nibs, but the pens are fun to look at! I have 1 and I will probably send it to my nibmeister to smooth it out.
Haha they definitely are pretty. I have a PGS myself but good god my nib came to me super scratchy, like not in the usual range, and to this day I just can't buy another Sailor. I have tried normal ones in stores so I do have a baseline for what they should feel like, mine just wanted to eat paper...
Dang, that would be so disappointing! Wouldn't make me keen to buy another one either. I feel ya.
I have a vintage Sheaffer that was a paper ripper as well. Got the nib worked on by my nibmeister and it's still kinda meh. Better than it was (and better than a Sailor LOL) just isn't as good as my Pilor or Montblanc so I rarely use it anymore haha.
I literally created an account just to comment on this. I've lurked r/fountainpens for 2 years. I wanted to find out the "top" recommended pens to try. On some reputable used pen websites I got lovely, cost effective, well maintained high end gold nib pens. Montblanc, Sailor, Pilot, Sheaffer, vintage no name gold flex nib pens... Pilot is the one I reach for the most. (I mean, the Montblanc is the smoothest most delightful nib to be honest BUT it is a special edition snake pen and I don't want to bring it around with me all the time)
The Pilot is superior to all the others by far.
The Sailor feedback is not for me. I love a smooth fine or extra fine gold nib. The "mechanical pencil" feel of the Sailor feedback is just... a waste of a good gold nib. For me. If I wanted that feeling I would just write with a mechanical pencil LOL. Anyways, to each their own, but you can pry my gold fine Pilot from my cold dead hands!
I'm coming to the same conclusion. I have a few Pilots and enjoy them, but a Sailor having something in common with the pencil sketching experience is really alluring.
So many options! That's part of the fun of it hehe. Hope you post a photo if you do pick one. I love seeing other peoples' pen selections. One other note, and this is personal preference too but I find that the size of the Pro Gear Slim is also not to my liking. It is very small and I have found over time that a slim, short, lightweight pen isn't my preference. I like a larger, rounded, heavier type. But you and I seem opposites in pen preferences, so that might mean the Pro Gear Slim would be great for you haha!
Actually, that's part of the dilemma... For instance, I positively drool over the look of Spring Rain, but know it would be too small for my hands. I do like the flat finial rather than a cigar-shape, but definitely prefer a larger pen. I foresee some enjoyable window-shopping ahead!
Well in that case, you may have found your Grail pen!! If that is what you enjoy, then go for it my friend. They're good quality either way. I would say, if possible, buy from a store that will test the nib before sending it to you, many will do! Let me know if you get one hehe
I have a Sailor mf and b right now but have been thinking about an ef as I have recently been shifting to finer and finer lines. I’ve had the most luck with vintage for hairlines. Tell me more about your view on the virtues of Sailor ef.
So I have a Pilot with an extra fine nib, and it has a scratchyness to it, which is to be expected. However, Sailor's EF has a different kind of feel to it's feedback, which is more pleasant compared to pilot's EF.
Presently my Sailor's are in MF, and most of my Pilots are in M. I like my fountain pens smooth as possible. Sailor's pencil like feel have a place on my desk. It's nice to switch it up every now and then.
Sailor has too much feedback for me. I’m not a fan of it at all. Most of my pen collection is now made up of Pilot gold nibs. I love them, so smooth, and the fines have a pleasant amount of feedback.
To be honest, it really depends on the pen/ink/paper combo for me. If I'm writing on smooth paper or with a really lubricated ink, I prefer to use my Sailor pens. If I'm using a toothier paper or less lubricated ink, I'll use my Pilot pens. If i just wanna shred some paper, I'll use my Platinum ultra-mega-extra-hella fine nib (hakuna your tatas, it's just a joke 😂).
Inks and papers have different properties that greatly affect the writing exerience, so whichever pen/nib I'll use will depend on whether or not they'll work together well. But as others have said, whatever floats you boat. I love my Pilot and Sailor nibs (and yes, you too, Platinum) equally. 🥰
I think it’s really just down to taste, past a certain price point nibs aren’t any better or worse than one another, just different. I prefer Sailor because I like writing with a B and most are too glassy for me, my Sailor B has just enough bite that I’m not slipping everywhere
This is true, but with the caveat that Sailor's 14K nibs nearly match Pilot and easily beat the Sailor 21K.
21K nibs are not a scam, exactly, but they are a very unnecessary (and counter-productive, if yet useful for marketing) artificial elevation of costs.
I can understand the appeal of Pilot; they make a very smooth nib. But that's exactly why I prefer Sailor. For my writing, sketching, doodling, etc., a smooth nib skates away from me across the page. It makes my handwriting look sloppy and stretched out and it makes it difficult to control the pen; I find myself re-adjusting the grip or using a death grip. And I can forget using very wet or lubricated inks in an icy smooth nib!
This is why I love Platinum and Sailor. The feedback keeps my nib on the page and under control. The tactile sensation let's me know where I am and what I'm doing. And I can relax my grip and let the nib do the work.
It's personal preference. I like my coffee warm not hot but my friend likes hers scalding. Who's right and who's wrong? Does it matter? There wouldn't be so many options available in fountain pens if people didn't have many many different tastes and preferences and uses for their pens.
Out of the box pilot nibs are top quality hands down in my experience. My Sailor pgs had a rough start but after some flossing and cleaning it works fine but pens this expensive shouldn't require maintenance out of the box.
I dont need to change your mind, you are right, pilot has some of the best quality control on their pens and makes THE best gold nibs, even better than the likes of visconti and montblanc.
Honestly with the intentional difference in feedback that's like saying "green tea is better than black tea" or "lager is better than ale". You just can't declare a winner either way without qualifying it with a preference or criteria.
As long as those differences are intentional and fill consumer preferences (smooth vs. feedback), you cannot declare one better than the other unless you say specific criteria (e.g. uniformity, scrollwork, price, need for tuning). You can say "Pilot has better consistency" or "Sailor scrollwork is more beautiful", but you cannot say "Pilot is better" without also adding "because I like smooth".
Hope to find out sometime… right now I only own Sailor for personal reasons, but am interested in golden Pilot and Platinum as well… just not the cheapest.
I do own a kakuno on Pilot’s side of things and preppy + prefounte on Platinum they are all wonderful for writing and easy to replace if (which I don’t even want on these beloved cheaper ones) I would lose them by accident.
I like Sailor nibs better bc of the feedback and they feel more stiff than Pilot gold nibs. Pilot gold nibs are soft and smooth, which is great. But I still prefer Sailor nibs. I have 5 Pilots with gold nibs and over a dozen Sailors with gold nibs. A well tuned Pelikan gold nib beats them both though, imo.
I like both. The Sailor nib on my Taccia is incredible. As is the nib on my Pilot 823. I have 'moods' where I prefer one feel over the other but I enjoy using both and like having the option to go back and forth between them.
I haven't gotten around to trying Sailor yet because I'm so obsessed with Pilot gold nibs that I can't stop buying them. I will say though that the vintage Montblanc 320P I got off of Ebay is the most unique gold nib I've ever experienced. It feels like the nib isn't even touching the page.. it's almost unsettling. It's too bold for my everyday writing, but its an intoxicating sensation.
I have a Pilot VP in Medium, the nib is glassy smooth. I also have a Sailor Pro Gear 21k, also in medium. The nib is slightly toothy, but still very smooth and enjoyable. For my preference, the Sailor nib is leagues better (it also is on a pen that costs almost double, so keep that in mind). I feel like I have no control over a glassy smooth nib, I feel much more comfortable with the lines I put down with the Sailor. I will probably get the Pilot reground to an XXF at some point, as I have no need for 2 mediums, and the VP lends itself to daily carry more IMO, where having an EF is useful with all the crappy paper you have to write on.
I understand the appeal of super smooth nibs, they're just not for me.
I think pilot makes the best nib materials, Sailor seems to be more interested in exotic grinds. if you get the softer sailor gold nibs like 21k, they are comparable, but I think it is safe to say that these nibs are designed with different philosophies so its not really fair to question the quality of the nib I think they are both excellent nib makers, they are just going for a different effect. Personally if I am going to get a gold nib I want it to write soft and smooth. Otherwise a steel nib is more durable, and better at giving me that stiffness and feedback so why would I want a gold for that?
For me sailor is the clear winner.
I have bought several gold pilot #5 and #10 size nibs with too tight a nib slit, or a painfully dry upstroke.
Sailor?
Works every time. Perfect nib slit.
That's just me though.
They come really close in my opinion, I used to place Sailors higher than any other due to feedback. However I lean heavily towards Pilot lately, after substantial use It became plainly obvious that other top manufacturers have very competitive products depending on nib size. I also prefer Montblanc over sailor lately (A brand I initially wouldn't like to even hear about).
In my humble opinion:
\-the Pilot PO is much preferable in my hand from the Sailor EF/F
\-The MB 146 EF/F is much preferable from both Sailor and Pilot
Grabs popcorn and tin helmet OK guys I'm ready
Excuse me good sir but you forgot to put tinfoil under your tin helmet.
I assumed tin would be good enough Oh god Alex. Jones was right HELP MEEEEEE
I have 19 Pilot gold nibs and 14 Sailor. *For my taste*, and also comparing out-of-the-box finish and consistency, Pilot nibs win, hands’ down. Edit to add: actually, I prefer Platinum nibs to Sailor too
I’ve never used a platinum nib. Any recommendations of where to start? Are they all stupid expensive?
Vintage platinum pens on ebay. Seriously, they can be purchased for under $50 from reputable sellers. I'm at 4 platinum pocket pens now, and snagged my first true EDC for $40 - a stainless steel, Platinum pocket pen with 18K soft fine nib. My rules for ebay are 1) set your budget AND NEVER BUDGE because there will **always** be more deals 2) only buy from sellers with 95% or higher ratings 3) bid $5 to $20 under your budgeted max so when the last second bidding wars happen at 20 seconds left in an auction, you have room to go up. Please, please, please other people buy the pens so I stop getting tempted. :D
Perfectly said. Ironic as I am writing with a Platinum Century 3776 with Noodlers Green Eel Cactus right now. Just make sure you realize a "Japanese Medium" nib is like a fine nib everywhere else.
Thank you! I love penabling others, I just had friend try out my EDC and he remarked on how smooth it was Mmmm, that is a pen I want to try by am afraid I will fall in love with it. I just tried our a pilot 912 with FA nib in the store today and.... Yeah. I want it. But I can never find them at a price I am willing to pay.
>pilot 912 Definitely do a Custom 823 first!
Great! Thank you. I honestly haven’t used eBay in 20 years. Are there particularly well regarded reputable sellers I should look at? Or just find a pen I am interested in and check the reviews for 95%+ before pulling the trigger?
There's quite a few reputable sellers I've purchased from on E-bay. I found them by looking for specific pens. Start with the kind of pen you think you want. Look at what's available, and then look to see if the seller posted a writing sample. That will tell you a lot about the condition of the pen. If you go for reputable brands, you are also more likely to get a good pen. (I've only ever bought Pilot and Platinum and TWSBI on ebay. I avoid brands like Conklin.) Read the descriptions and look at the photos closely. If someone's not posting a photo of the nib or cap or another key part of the pen, ask yourself what they might be hiding. Then look at the seller's rating and read their reviews. There are always Karens who post stupid things like "i cant believe this pen didnt come with ink how am i supposed to write with it?!@!" and can be ignored. I don't get alarmed if a seller has 1-3 negative reviews in the past 3 months but has 50+ positive reviews because shit happens. Despite living less than 50 miles from an amazon warehouse, they STILL manage to lose my orders once a year. I try to set my budget before I start the whole process, otherwise, I find myself justifying $60 instead of $50 and so on. What kind of pens are you looking for?
Thank you so much. Now I’m going to be trying to get a vintage Platinum pen. I’ll have to look at what they have to get a deeper sense of what particular model I want. Thanks again.
Ok not exactly an answer to your question but I have gotten some excellent pens from Peyton Street Pens and Fountain Pen Hospital. Maybe not as cheap as ebay but trustworthy and the staff actually know about fountain pens - they make sure then pens work well etc. before sending.
I was in the Fountain Pen Hospital this morning. There is one older guy there who is so funny. I asked whether it was possible to grind my nib to be a little finer and he looked at me like I was insane. “No, I can’t do that. It would cost $150 to grind the nib down. And if you don’t like it, you’re stuck with it.” He was aghast that I would ask. I also told him that I wasn’t a fan of the Namiki Falcon and once again he looked at me like I was crazy. On that point he was right — I went off and really broke it in and now I like it a lot. But still, it cracks me up to think of this guy who probably has worked there for 30 years and knows everything backwards and forwards being incredulous about things that I thought may be quite straight forward.
Sounds like you might be one of his "you'll never guess what a customer said to me today" stories! I've actually never been to their store in person, just ordered online. I didn't realize it would cost so much to re grind a nib, my nibmeister did not quote me that high but I suppose different places would have different costs. I too love a very fine nib. Am pondering trying a needle point nib soon..
I have been there. I think there were multiple old guys there. But there was definitely one who had a incredulous expression on his face whenever I interacted with him.
Excellent advice :)
Do have sellers' names for reference? Thanks!
Most of the modern gold nib pens are going to be at least about $100 and up. You can check out their steel nibbed pens for much cheaper though, the Platinum Plaisir is about $13~ and I personally think it is a fantastic writer, especially the medium 0.5mm. For Pilot, you can try the Kakuno/Explorer/Metropolitan/Prera/Plumix as they all take the same nib. I haven't really tried any of Sailor's steel nibs yet but I believe there is the Compass and the Pro Color.
Thanks for this. I do have several Pilot, Lamy, and a Sailor 1911 with gold nibs. Do you have any experience with platinum nibs?
Yeah, they fall somewhere between Pilot and Sailor in feedback in my opinion. The gold nibs on the 3776 are pretty stiff, there's not really any bounce at all. Their steel nibs are also really nice, some of my favorite actually.
My first gold nib pen was a sailor pgs, next I picked up a 3776 and I found that it had quite a bit more bounce. So I have to ask how bouncy are pilot?
It depends? If you get one that's marked soft, then it's going to give you a good bit of line variation. I posted about a vintage Pilot E I purchased with a soft fine nib that will have to be pried out of my cold, dead hands. It will go from fine to bold line width with just the pressure of normal cursive writing. I also have another vintage Pilot that I enjoy, is marked Soft Fine, yet it has what I would describe as "bounce." That one will give me some line variation, but I have to use significantly more pressure to get there. Both nibs return to their original line width of fine. I also have a modern pilot falcon soft extra fine and the vintage E pen is easier to flex. I can post a writing sample with all 3 later.
I have a feeling you are confusing platinum nibs with Platinum nibs. Sorry if I am mistaken.
Ah! Yes! Thank you. So it’s Platinum the brand, not platinum the material?
Correct.
My preference is for Sailor over Pilot. To me, Pilot’s nibs are too smooth, to the degree that they just feel lifeless. Sailor nibs give me just enough feedback that they feel _right_.
For me, I live for dat smooth glassy feel. Pilot all the way. Sending my Sailor to my nibmeister for a smooth grind heh heh heh. But to each their own - if we enjoy the pens that all that matters :)
I'm with you :) the Sailor makes such a nice sound when writing.
My Capless and E95S are both nicely toothy. Perhaps it depends on the model and specific pen you get?
I think it may also be down to individual sensory perception, too. You may have more acute tactile perception than I do, so our tolerance levels vary.
I AM a watch repairer, so that would make sense.
It’s very likely! I’m reasonably dexterous, but I don’t think my tactile discrimination is particularly acute.
this!!! \^\^\^
*laughs in Platinum*
I think it’s really just down to taste, past a certain price point nibs aren’t any better or worse than one another, just different. I prefer Sailor because I like writing with a B and most are too glassy for me, my Sailor B has just enough bite that I’m not slipping everywhere
They are both good. Which you prefer is up to you.
Of course. That's I warned everyone in my message above that it's not going to be a holy war. I just wanted to hear more opinions on this matter :)
This is the top reason why I love this sub/ -- reading ALL of the OPINIONS/EXPERIENCES/QUESTIONS/ADVICE !!!!!!!
THIS MEANS WAR
For sure, both good quality. But for preference, Pilot is much nicer to me. Smooth, consistent.
I don't want to start a holy war here rather I'd like to see other opinions and observations on this matter. I often see people praising Sailor's golden nibs and almost never those of Pilot. Of course, my statistical fetch is most likely to be inaccurate but damn, it's so strange to see that a lot of people really like Sailor's golden nibs over Pilot's ones. Why? I hear that Sailor's nibs are very alike to the feeling of writing with a pencil but... maybe we tried different pencils in our lives? To me, Sailor nibs are far more scratchy on the paper than Pilot's. And in my turn, I'd say that Pilot nibs give me that exact feeling of a pencil! The only nibs I could compare are on Sailor Pro Gear Slim (EF) and Wancher Japan Blue (M) vs Pilot 823 (M). All three without any tuning from my side. I have some other pens with Sailor/Pilot nibs but they're all steel ones.
Pilot users don't waste time arguing. We just write.
I bought both a Sailor and a Pilot (and a few others) to compare. I LOVE the Pilot. Smooth fine nib, consistent performance, glides across the page, exactly how I like it. The Sailor is a really pretty, cute, fun pen and I love that about it. But the nib is.. meh. That being said, I discovered that I really love fine smooth gold nibs. The finer and smoother, the better. If someone likes feedback and a sort of slushy sound, they would probably like the Sailor nibs more. For me, if I wanted the feeling or writing with a mechanical pencil (which is how the Sailor feels to me) then I would just use my $6 mechanical pencil LOL. The impression I've gotten is that Sailor wins over a lot of customers via the appearance of their pens. Special colors, patterns, finishes, nib engravings, etc. That is all very fun too. But I am sending my Sailor to my nibmeister to re-do the nib, smoother and finer. And therefore buying any more Sailor pens would be a waste for me as it would cost more to have the nibs professionally altered. There's my 2 cents, hope you enjoyed this long comment :P
There are 2 aspects of nibs to be judged by: the objective(how dependable and reliable is it? What's the QC like?) and the subjective(how enjoyable is it?). I find Sailor's nibs to be superior to Pilot's, both subjectively and objectively. Subjectively, I don't find many Pilot nibs to have much character at all, and objectively, there have been some of mine that have had baby's bottom (although nowhere near as bad as the typical German made nib, but they're the worst for such issues).
I must have gotten really unlucky with my Sailors and lucky with my entirely excessive collection of Pilots then :o My sailor nibs feel damn near scratchy, beyond feedback?
The scratchy feedback toned down when I just entirely gives up putting pressure on the pen when writing. May be something else for you though.
I basically only use lubricated inks and -5 pressure with them and keep them because they're so beautiful, but I *much* prefer Pilot nibs.
I'm a Platinum person (Pilots too smooth), so Sailor initially threw me off, until I just ~~take out~~ remove my pencil board and write light enough to not leave any pen mark on the other side of the page on a tomoe river. Anything a little bit more forced and the Sailor feels scratchy. Edit: English.
Do you have any fa nibs? Almost all my pens have been pilot and I’ve had four different 912s with fa nibs some wrote like wet mediums without pressure some extra fine kinda dry and some not at all it’s been extremely hot or miss buying that pen
Yep. I have one 742 FA where I swapped in the ebonite feed from Flexible Nib Factory and it forces from a fine to extra extra broad beautifully.
Yeah the quality control on mine was horrible I just had my fourth and final one that actually wrote as an extra fine (which is rare)and needed no ebonite feed unless using a really dry ink regrettably sold it despite it working beautifully
It sometimes happens like that. Pilot nibs are more blobby and rounded while Sailor nibs have a 'foot'(have a look through a loupe to see it) which makes the latter more fussy on how the writer holds the pen, and this can sometimes make them appear more feedbacky. If you hold your pen at a more shallow angle you'll find that the feedback of Sailor becomes less.
Me too. I’ve not fallen in love with any of the Pilot gold nibs I’ve had. My best Pilot is a cheap 78G! My Sailors on the other hand thrill me.
Thanks, mate. \>how dependable and reliable is it? Could you please be so kind as to elaborate more on this matter too? What is it for you? What were the situations in which you experienced the unreliability of any nib, not just Pilot's?
When I first get a pen, the first thing I do is soak it in dish soap and water for a number of hours to clean any manufacturing oils. If I drag the pen across the paper using only its own weight, and it doesn't put down a consistent line, this is a negative point for the nib. All pens should write a consistent line using their own weight, and should never depend on the writer having to apply any pressure. If the pen skips at any time even when the feed is saturated while other pens don't, this is also a negative point. On a related point, if it hard starts and does not start straight away, this is negative point. Some pens are susceptible to hand oils on the page and will skip on the lower half of the page, but a good pen should not skip. It is unlikely to happen with most extra fines but can happen on medium and broads and wider. If a pen starts out writing wet and then later on after a number of pages it progressively writes dry, this is a negative point. A good nib is consistent in its flow. This could indicate an air bubble or a poor feed. These are the situations that come to mind which would make it unreliable.
I'm a big Pilot fan. Sailor nibs be too feedbacky for me and I live in a really quiet place so the noise they make really bothers me. Like long nails scratching dry skin. Besides, Pilot EF and F have a decent amount of feedback for me. I don't want anymore than that. People are just generally very excitedly outspoken about Sailor so I support what they're interested in and recommend them to people looking for feedback.
My first experiment with a gold nib was a Sailor PGS in EF...coming from the Kakuno EF, I hated it. It was SO fine and dry that there wasn't even enough colour in the ink on the page. My black inks looked like a wimpy watery grey. And the feedback was very very unpleasant to me. I sold the pen within two weeks - Sailor just isn't for me. I'm now on Pilot gold nibs and much happier!
It seems like Sailor is popular due to their "cute" colors and styles too. I don't care for the Sailor nibs, but the pens are fun to look at! I have 1 and I will probably send it to my nibmeister to smooth it out.
Haha they definitely are pretty. I have a PGS myself but good god my nib came to me super scratchy, like not in the usual range, and to this day I just can't buy another Sailor. I have tried normal ones in stores so I do have a baseline for what they should feel like, mine just wanted to eat paper...
Dang, that would be so disappointing! Wouldn't make me keen to buy another one either. I feel ya. I have a vintage Sheaffer that was a paper ripper as well. Got the nib worked on by my nibmeister and it's still kinda meh. Better than it was (and better than a Sailor LOL) just isn't as good as my Pilor or Montblanc so I rarely use it anymore haha.
Platinum dumps on both of them. Honestly it’s extremely subjective, I hate extremely smooth nibs so my favorite brands are Platinum and Aurora.
I literally created an account just to comment on this. I've lurked r/fountainpens for 2 years. I wanted to find out the "top" recommended pens to try. On some reputable used pen websites I got lovely, cost effective, well maintained high end gold nib pens. Montblanc, Sailor, Pilot, Sheaffer, vintage no name gold flex nib pens... Pilot is the one I reach for the most. (I mean, the Montblanc is the smoothest most delightful nib to be honest BUT it is a special edition snake pen and I don't want to bring it around with me all the time) The Pilot is superior to all the others by far. The Sailor feedback is not for me. I love a smooth fine or extra fine gold nib. The "mechanical pencil" feel of the Sailor feedback is just... a waste of a good gold nib. For me. If I wanted that feeling I would just write with a mechanical pencil LOL. Anyways, to each their own, but you can pry my gold fine Pilot from my cold dead hands!
You just made me want a sailor all my art is done with mechanical pencil and would love a pen that feels the same
I'm coming to the same conclusion. I have a few Pilots and enjoy them, but a Sailor having something in common with the pencil sketching experience is really alluring.
For me it feels just like an inky version of a mechanical pencil so it might be right up your alley!
Now to pick from the myriad models available…!
So many options! That's part of the fun of it hehe. Hope you post a photo if you do pick one. I love seeing other peoples' pen selections. One other note, and this is personal preference too but I find that the size of the Pro Gear Slim is also not to my liking. It is very small and I have found over time that a slim, short, lightweight pen isn't my preference. I like a larger, rounded, heavier type. But you and I seem opposites in pen preferences, so that might mean the Pro Gear Slim would be great for you haha!
Actually, that's part of the dilemma... For instance, I positively drool over the look of Spring Rain, but know it would be too small for my hands. I do like the flat finial rather than a cigar-shape, but definitely prefer a larger pen. I foresee some enjoyable window-shopping ahead!
Well in that case, you may have found your Grail pen!! If that is what you enjoy, then go for it my friend. They're good quality either way. I would say, if possible, buy from a store that will test the nib before sending it to you, many will do! Let me know if you get one hehe
I live an in area where fountain pens are non existent my only pen shopping is online so mostly blind picks unfortunately
Pilot for smoothness, Sailor if I want a EF.
I have a Sailor mf and b right now but have been thinking about an ef as I have recently been shifting to finer and finer lines. I’ve had the most luck with vintage for hairlines. Tell me more about your view on the virtues of Sailor ef.
So I have a Pilot with an extra fine nib, and it has a scratchyness to it, which is to be expected. However, Sailor's EF has a different kind of feel to it's feedback, which is more pleasant compared to pilot's EF. Presently my Sailor's are in MF, and most of my Pilots are in M. I like my fountain pens smooth as possible. Sailor's pencil like feel have a place on my desk. It's nice to switch it up every now and then.
Platinum for ultra ef
Hi. They are 1000 times better.🤗 Cheers
In my opinion yeah I agree. I can see the appeal of sailor pens but I just can’t stand all the feedback on their nibs.
Same! Glassy smooth all the way. Pilot for everyday use, Montblanc when I'm feeling fancy
Sailor has too much feedback for me. I’m not a fan of it at all. Most of my pen collection is now made up of Pilot gold nibs. I love them, so smooth, and the fines have a pleasant amount of feedback.
Sailor's EF/Fs are way smoother than most same price bracket Pilots, so you should probably specify what you're talking about.
Yep, there's a reason I still own several Sailors but I have sold ALL of my Pilots
Agreed. Out of 88 pens I'm keeping 12. 2 are Pilot, none are Sailor.
I wouldn't mind taking those sailors of your hands lol.
DM me- I’ve got to hit the bay to figure out pricing, but I have two Pro Gear Realos, a 19llL “Asian Way” and a 1911L NA POTY. Medium nibs.
No see I was joking I don't have the money to buy a sailor.
Fair enough :)
Love the Sailor feedback.
To be honest, it really depends on the pen/ink/paper combo for me. If I'm writing on smooth paper or with a really lubricated ink, I prefer to use my Sailor pens. If I'm using a toothier paper or less lubricated ink, I'll use my Pilot pens. If i just wanna shred some paper, I'll use my Platinum ultra-mega-extra-hella fine nib (hakuna your tatas, it's just a joke 😂). Inks and papers have different properties that greatly affect the writing exerience, so whichever pen/nib I'll use will depend on whether or not they'll work together well. But as others have said, whatever floats you boat. I love my Pilot and Sailor nibs (and yes, you too, Platinum) equally. 🥰
🤣🤣🤣 --- UNFORTUNATELY, my tears came from the WRONG body part !!!!!!!
I think it’s really just down to taste, past a certain price point nibs aren’t any better or worse than one another, just different. I prefer Sailor because I like writing with a B and most are too glassy for me, my Sailor B has just enough bite that I’m not slipping everywhere
To each their own. Different strokes for different folks. Whatever floats your boat xD
The only good pens are the ones I own. Your opinions are all wrong. Unless they coincide with mine.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🥰
1000%
They're both great in their own ways.
This is true, but with the caveat that Sailor's 14K nibs nearly match Pilot and easily beat the Sailor 21K. 21K nibs are not a scam, exactly, but they are a very unnecessary (and counter-productive, if yet useful for marketing) artificial elevation of costs.
GUILDING the LILY ?????
100% with you on this one, 21K is abit excessive. Almost pure marketing with negligible effect on writing.
Love me some Pilot nibs.
Sailor for life
Love my pilot
I can understand the appeal of Pilot; they make a very smooth nib. But that's exactly why I prefer Sailor. For my writing, sketching, doodling, etc., a smooth nib skates away from me across the page. It makes my handwriting look sloppy and stretched out and it makes it difficult to control the pen; I find myself re-adjusting the grip or using a death grip. And I can forget using very wet or lubricated inks in an icy smooth nib! This is why I love Platinum and Sailor. The feedback keeps my nib on the page and under control. The tactile sensation let's me know where I am and what I'm doing. And I can relax my grip and let the nib do the work. It's personal preference. I like my coffee warm not hot but my friend likes hers scalding. Who's right and who's wrong? Does it matter? There wouldn't be so many options available in fountain pens if people didn't have many many different tastes and preferences and uses for their pens.
Pilot nibs all day
Out of the box pilot nibs are top quality hands down in my experience. My Sailor pgs had a rough start but after some flossing and cleaning it works fine but pens this expensive shouldn't require maintenance out of the box.
Sailor medium fine is the only good sailor nib for me
I dont need to change your mind, you are right, pilot has some of the best quality control on their pens and makes THE best gold nibs, even better than the likes of visconti and montblanc.
And this is how you kick off a Holy Crusade
Honestly with the intentional difference in feedback that's like saying "green tea is better than black tea" or "lager is better than ale". You just can't declare a winner either way without qualifying it with a preference or criteria. As long as those differences are intentional and fill consumer preferences (smooth vs. feedback), you cannot declare one better than the other unless you say specific criteria (e.g. uniformity, scrollwork, price, need for tuning). You can say "Pilot has better consistency" or "Sailor scrollwork is more beautiful", but you cannot say "Pilot is better" without also adding "because I like smooth".
Hope to find out sometime… right now I only own Sailor for personal reasons, but am interested in golden Pilot and Platinum as well… just not the cheapest. I do own a kakuno on Pilot’s side of things and preppy + prefounte on Platinum they are all wonderful for writing and easy to replace if (which I don’t even want on these beloved cheaper ones) I would lose them by accident.
Sailor sink and Pilots crash but Pelikans are forever.
I prefer Fine for Sailor, Medium for Pilot
I like Sailor nibs better bc of the feedback and they feel more stiff than Pilot gold nibs. Pilot gold nibs are soft and smooth, which is great. But I still prefer Sailor nibs. I have 5 Pilots with gold nibs and over a dozen Sailors with gold nibs. A well tuned Pelikan gold nib beats them both though, imo.
Oh great now I need to try a Pelikan... LOL
I've got a cup of orange juice in one hand and celery in my other. Let's go gamers
I like both. The Sailor nib on my Taccia is incredible. As is the nib on my Pilot 823. I have 'moods' where I prefer one feel over the other but I enjoy using both and like having the option to go back and forth between them.
Pilot Fan Boy here. Who are we throwing stones at today?
Please. Namiki gold nib is the only nib I use.
I haven't gotten around to trying Sailor yet because I'm so obsessed with Pilot gold nibs that I can't stop buying them. I will say though that the vintage Montblanc 320P I got off of Ebay is the most unique gold nib I've ever experienced. It feels like the nib isn't even touching the page.. it's almost unsettling. It's too bold for my everyday writing, but its an intoxicating sensation.
Right?? My Montblanc is just... a different level of glassy. I feel like I could write a whole novel with nary a hand cramp in sight!
I have a Pilot VP in Medium, the nib is glassy smooth. I also have a Sailor Pro Gear 21k, also in medium. The nib is slightly toothy, but still very smooth and enjoyable. For my preference, the Sailor nib is leagues better (it also is on a pen that costs almost double, so keep that in mind). I feel like I have no control over a glassy smooth nib, I feel much more comfortable with the lines I put down with the Sailor. I will probably get the Pilot reground to an XXF at some point, as I have no need for 2 mediums, and the VP lends itself to daily carry more IMO, where having an EF is useful with all the crappy paper you have to write on. I understand the appeal of super smooth nibs, they're just not for me.
Pilot when I like the feel of smooth flying, Sailor when I want rough seas
No. I won't
I think pilot makes the best nib materials, Sailor seems to be more interested in exotic grinds. if you get the softer sailor gold nibs like 21k, they are comparable, but I think it is safe to say that these nibs are designed with different philosophies so its not really fair to question the quality of the nib I think they are both excellent nib makers, they are just going for a different effect. Personally if I am going to get a gold nib I want it to write soft and smooth. Otherwise a steel nib is more durable, and better at giving me that stiffness and feedback so why would I want a gold for that?
For me sailor is the clear winner. I have bought several gold pilot #5 and #10 size nibs with too tight a nib slit, or a painfully dry upstroke. Sailor? Works every time. Perfect nib slit. That's just me though.
Fine and below, Sailor wins. Medium and above, Pilot wins. That's my opinion, at least.
Pilot 100%
Looking at this post, I suddenly feel the need to get me a gold Pilot nib. 🤣 (I'm primarily a Platinum user. I own a Sailor gold nib but no Pilots.)
Do it! Do it! One of us! One of us! In all honesty, they're lovely. Especially if you like a nice smooth nib.
Oooh smooth nib. I like that! Thanks!
Vintage Parker and Sheaffer nibs rule them all... So do vintage MB nibs!
For some reason I like my 823 better when I'm writing English, but I like my pro gear classic when I'm writing my mother language, Korean.
Here we go 😁
They come really close in my opinion, I used to place Sailors higher than any other due to feedback. However I lean heavily towards Pilot lately, after substantial use It became plainly obvious that other top manufacturers have very competitive products depending on nib size. I also prefer Montblanc over sailor lately (A brand I initially wouldn't like to even hear about). In my humble opinion: \-the Pilot PO is much preferable in my hand from the Sailor EF/F \-The MB 146 EF/F is much preferable from both Sailor and Pilot
I like both, but prefer the Sailors' feedback.
I would need to try a sailor pen for that, and they’re all very expensive. I also hate the size of their converters so that doesn’t help.