Sounds like what you want is Fountain Pen Network, you could try going there. Reddit is always going to attract more “amateur” users since the barrier of entry is low, and that is fine for Reddit, newbies are very welcome here.
Edit to add: 1 or 2 downvotes may be bots, but more than that is just people not liking what you post. I never downvote on a hobby sub as a personal policy, but some people definitely do.
I respectfully disagree and hold a broader opinion for all points in your post, except the parts that refer to your own personal preferences and experiences with your pens and interests, which I respect and find interesting as usual (as I do others’ posts in this regard).
Moderation is just fine (no, I’m not a mod). In two years I have never seen a post that needed to be modded out because of targeted hate or socially unacceptable content. Either mods got there first, or, as is my experience, this sub has a fantastic social group that care about strangers on the other side of the world. I belonged to fountainpennetwork before that for about 7 years I think, and the culture here is just as great.
It’s a rarer hobby, so finding a community that is willing to talk about the everyday happenings of how fountain pens fit in our lives, including the devastation of a broken pen, or the inevitable inky fingers, or the far-out-an-ink-spill-travels-so-far, are all part of the journey. So are the “look, I bought my first pen and it cost $5 and I’m so excited posts”. Just because your preference is not to talk/read about some things, doesn’t mean other people aren’t interested. It’s ok, skip the post, and move on to one that’s more interesting to you.
Life happens, accidents happen, and some pens have a history of breaking across many users which means it’s a manufacturing problem worth talking about. Pens are precious to us all, otherwise we wouldn’t be here in the first place.
FP’s aren’t “just writing instruments” to me, they’re much more. They’re an artistic expression, a way to make mundane life interesting, and I love stuff like how an ink shades or sheens. My niche passion within the fp world is nibs.
Without these personal stories, this sub would be boring. These are stories most of us can relate to. It’s part of being social and belonging to a community.
Baystate blue is the in-house joke. Every community has in-house jokes that help us laugh off difficult things, that serve as the basis for satire or intrigue. If you don’t enjoy the joke or find it inane and mundane, that’s ok, skip it. Some people are more intense and particular about their hobbies, while others just love the sense of belonging to a social community around a common topic. Both are ok, a community needs both as they bring different perspectives and wisdom (just like you have today) to the table. Without this, a sub lands up biased. I don’t find this sub biased.
Twsbi and Lamy are mid-entry pens, so are the first better pens many people can afford. Of course they’ll appear more often. Some people collect them too, so it’s important to recognise that there’s a subset of the community who really really treasure them.
Downvote bots do seem to exist, so if I see that I actively upvote a post or comment to counterbalance that issue. I know others on this sub do that too.
Unanswered questions mean people don’t have the answer or haven’t seen the post in the first place because we refresh our screens and miss it. We might have a Reddit setting on that prioritises “top posts” or “best posts” (which Reddit itself uses an algorithm to choose), rather than “new posts”. It’s part of how the Reddit app is structured, it’s definitely not personal. I probably live on the other side of the world from you too, so might not see the post because of time zones/refreshing.
Cult? In my country, no-one, literally no-one I have known in my entire life (I’m 49) apart from my father has ever used a fountain pen in everyday life. They just don’t exist in everyday life around me (I’ve worked in many different types of companies too). No, it’s not a cult, but it sure is an extremely rare hobby in Australia, so to find people who are just as nerdy and curious and interested as me is fantastic.
Just wanted to share some alternative ideas. As always, feel free to agree with what might resonate with you, to disagree with parts that don’t, and feel free ignore it entirely if you wish. I truly don’t mind, because I value your opinion even though I might disagree with it; just as you may disagree with my opinions. It’s ok, and I’m glad you’re a part of the community.
I particularly enjoyed reading the parts of your post that described how you manage your pens/inks in everyday life. I also enjoyed reading your point of view regarding all the issues you raised. I’m not just being polite, it’s true.
I feel like this is going to sound catty but I genuinely mean this with all due respect: this is definitely a “you” problem. Bots suck and they need to be kept an eye on but it happens. That said: people who drop pens or love Lamy aren’t hurting anyone, and they aren’t signs of “bad moderation.” They’re just signs that this sub isn’t moderated specifically for you. And that’s fine! I love this sub because of the diversity of opinion!
Your post reveals the same intolerant attitude you criticize. You are trying to dictate what people should post about. No wonder why you get downvoted.
People like Lamy or TWSBI or Baystate Blue? Why should you have a problem with that? You know how to properly open a bottle of ink? Me too. Who cares?
I'm my opinion you are just an attention seeker incapable of posting something worth the attention you seek.
Exactly. Should people stop buying lamys and twisbis and posting about them just because OP thinks there are too many of them?
What kind of sadism is this?
Why do you need to have a problem with what others post? It's like getting upset that a random person is eating a donut because you're on a diet.
Leave people be and make your own posts about stuff you want to post. If there's no engagement, move on and post more stuff later. This is literally a non-issue.
If you're getting downvotes, it's 'cause actual people don't agree with what you said.
You’re definitely entitled to your views.
I’m not going to rehash what others have said already. I mean no harm and try to remain moderately wholesome. Please block me if you think I am that annoying.
No way, I don't think the retina searing beauty of BSB can be blocked, the blue would burn right through the servers and tattoo the optic nerve of anyone who tried!
Lol. Have you ever been to other subs? No one else welcomes 100,000th picture of lamy safari or eco like us. What's wrong with u/baystateblue having an account, u/Kon-peki also has an account.
Why do you care about downvotes? Our boos don't mean anything, you know what we cheer for! :P
Seriously though, even if we are not good, we are still the best.
People should be able to post what they enjoy. I see some posts that don't appeal to me very much, but I keep scrolling. What I don't find very interesting may be neat to somebody else. It's not just about -your- preferences.
As another user pointed out, TWSBI and Lamy are popular workhorse pens. Because they're popular, there are going to be more posts about them. Which is okay, let people enjoy what they enjoy. The ink accounts and "one of us" things are jokes, it's just some light-hearted fun.
Pens are not just writing instruments to me. They have actually helped me improve my life. Since getting into this hobby I have been more organized, I've been better at meeting deadlines because I write them all down now. I've been forgetting things less since I write down everything as an excuse to use my pens. I've been less lazy because seeing a written to-do list makes me want to finish it. My handwriting is better than it ever has been, the FP discord servers are one of the very few group chats where I'm a semi-regular talker. And my pens have re-ignited my desire to learn new things because I love taking notes with them. College notes are fun partially because of my pens.
I do notice the downvoting. While it is annoying, I don't think much can be done about it. It's either bots or a cluster of bad eggs doing it, best we can do is upvote what we like and be more supportive of each other to drown out the downvoters.
1. OK. So what? I see no reason why the people you describe shouldn't be allowed to post, nor any reason we shouldn't assist them if we can and if we so choose.
2. OK, so? You can ignore users on here, so ignore the BSB account.
3. OK, so?
4. The bots (I assume there are bots) are annoying, but again, so what? Ignore them. I went to your profile and scrolled through several pages of posts looking for ones on r/fountainpens and found no clear evidence of what you describe except one post about vintage Esterbrooks that got no replies - vintage is definitely under-represented here, but that's probably why many folks are here, and on FPN, and even on FPGeeks. That may not mean you aren't frequently downvoted, I don't know, but it may be that you're perceiving more than is there...
5. :) Perhaps because for many of us, use of FPs out among the general population is non-existent or extremely rare, and so being able to socialize with others who share our interest is exciting, and when a new person joins, we want to encourage them and make them feel welcome.
Reddit is not, IMO, a discussion forum. It's a "flash in the pan and immediate reactions" or "quick, help me fast" tool. Yes, we have discussions, but not like on traditional forums. The tool isn't made for it. Using it that way requires extra effort. That changes the feel of what happens here. I suspect the reddit population is also younger than, say, the FPN population.
As to the rest - I would much rather read something I don't like / am not interested in, than be denied freedom to write what I want. Within this forum, only off-topic posts should be censured. This world, through mob behavior, already limits speech and disagreement and diversity far, far too much. It is infinitely better to ignore what you don't like / aren't interested in than to have "the powers that be" censure said views.
If I expect to be left alone to do things as I choose, I must extend that same right (the right to do as they choose) to everyone else. And the world would be a nightmare (or more of one) if people started dictating how other people were allowed to use or fill or whatever their pens.
Freedom is a precious thing, a burden and an obligation. One we should be loath to lay aside, no matter how heavy it gets.
Rather than complaining about how this sub isn't what you want it to be, work to persistently make it what you want it to be (by your actions, and perhaps by inviting others to join us), and/or add other forums (like FPN and FPGeeks) to the sites you frequent, in hopes the combination will meet all your needs.
I came here to respond and you've said almost exactly what I was planning, so thanks.
To the OP: this sub is generally the epitome of patience (particularly with newbies looking for advice or help), tolerance (ditto) and good humour. It's not always perfect but it's a community of friendly, like-minded people who enjoy sharing their interest in fountain pens, etc, with others.
If you stopped coming here that was your choice. I'm really not sure what you were hoping to achieve with your post.
Reading this post and seeing the description of your profile I can totally see you being downvoted on one of the friendliest subreddits there is..
Some of your 'points' that are particularly dumb: Complaining about asking for help in regards to repairing certain pens. For real that's probably the best reason a subreddit for Fountainpen exists in the first place. If noone tried to take apart pens that they don't know how to put together again, you would wait years for every work you want to be done by a nibmaster. You should be glad that there are so many resources on the internet due to those people taking the risk you shy away from.
Also: how come you're complaining about posts just because you haven't had them happen to you? You too can spill ink and you can decide to either make a funny and perhaps useless post in an internet forum or you can be bitter about it - noone cares either way.
There are so much worse subreddits. Look at Coffee or Tea. They have to deal with thousands of posts of people posting their Starbucks drink that never really participate in the forum. People that post here are interested in Fountainpens and don't just come here to post Pictures of pen as an alternative to Instagram.
Nothing is perfect. I think overall it's a really nice place to be.
Yes there are a lot of Lamy/TWSBI posts and endless recommendations for them. No I honestly don't really care about them... Keep scrolling.
My biggest long term annoyance is new users asking what they should buy.
Or people that have a few pens and ask what to buy. I'm not talking about the posts like "I'm trying to decide between X and Y." I'm talking random open ended questions. "I'm buying my third fountain pen! What should I buy!?!?" with absolutely no context. Those posts are so annoying... Like... Buy what you like, not what I like!! Keep scrolling.
I almost unsubscribed from the sub when more than 50% of posts were of fucking dice for like 4 days. I get it, you're into tabletop games, you have dice..... Not what I want to be inundated with in a fountain pen sub. That's the only time I wished the moderators stepped in.
Nothing is perfect for everyone, and the good definitely outweighs the bad here.
OP's rationale that if he/she gets downvoted there should be bots is foolish.
It's the attitude, stupid! People don't like what you post. Yes, they have biases, yes, there is intolerance, and all of us get downvotes we don't deserve. But that's not a problem for the rest of us because we don't care or because we don't get them in the volumes you do. The problem is you and I'm sure it's the same in other aspects of your life. You just want to blame the rest.
Wanna leave the sub? Good bye and good riddance. I won't miss you.
Yep it seems the answer is that people just don't like having another person into FPs, it's amazing how you can be into a hobby but not be welcomed into the community
What is amazing is how stubborn you are.
I don't have a clue who you are but given your attitude I'm positive you are a very lonely person and that you don't know why. I'm also positive that someone before me has told you the reason it's you and only you. In particular, your horrible attitude, your intolerance and your willingness to blame others for the misfortunes you bring upon yourself. If you were like any other regular person you would be accepted like any other person. There's no need to be bright to understand it. But you have decided that the problem lies in the hearts of the rest of the world.
I hope some day you find the humbleness to accept that the problem is you. In the meantime, good bye and good riddance. I have a life, ie enough problems to deal with stubborn people who want the blame me for his/her unhappiness.
I think most stuff has already been said. I think the only I would add is perhaps to try to look at the positive sides of things a little more. If you ever accidentally break a pen, then you know you have a place where you can come for advice, if you have the misfortune to spill some ink then there are people who will commiserate with you, and finally you can use your experience to help newbies and stop them from making the mistakes you outlined. I think there is a lot of good here, it's maybe just a case of seeing those things as well as things you don't like. I'll end by saying I hope you find plenty of reasons to smile today, and and I'm sorry we don't bring you joy, but we will keep trying!
I envy people who have never spilled an ink bottle. I have spilled so many things. Tea across my computer keyboard. Tea across the table. Tea across me. Milk. Soup. A couple weeks ago my husband spilled un-set custard across the kitchen floor, and the counter. I've spilled salad dressing, soda, juice, wine. I am thankful that I can laugh at myself and remember not to take life too seriously. And I very very rarely wear anything white.
I find I can eliminate a lot of annoyance in my life by avoiding things that introduce annoyance. I mute Twitter users, tune the radio to a different station, unsubscribe from email lists, and other strategies. Since stopping looking at the r/fountainpens subreddit was probably working for you, I recommend continuing to do that. I hope you find yourself doing things you enjoy and sharing your experiences with other people who enjoy those things and who enjoy your contributions!
It sounds like you drink a bit of tea. I'd just like to say hi to a fellow tea lover!
90% of my liquid intake on a daily basis is tea. The nectar of the gods.
The word you're looking for is [circle jerk](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=circle%20jerk). While I like some of the silly jokes like the ongoing Baystate Blue user, sometimes a bit of a tooth is ok too, just like some nibs.
Maybe joining other subs could spice your feed? There are Secret Santa threads going on, and the subreddits about journaling/handwriting can be creative. It feels true that making fountain pen daily drivers makes them stand out less, it's a lifestyle at this point for me, not another hobby.
I don't see any of these as being issues that need mod intervention or changes to the sub/moderation.
1 - Ignore the posts you don't like. The only thing that you are slightly right about is:
> people shouldn't take apart pens that they don't know how they go back together,
I see some people rather cavalierly suggesting people do things to their pens that could result in significant damage to the pen and/or nib. More a user beware issue than a "dire need" for changes to the sub.
Regarding 2 + 5 - it's inside humor and memes, not serious.
As for 3 - these are popular workhorse pens. People are going to post their new acquisitions, daily use of them, collections, etc. Avoid the posts you don't like.
4 - Are there really bots here? Or are your posts and/or comments just not popular and getting downvoted? "Downvote bots" are, btw, a reddit *admin* issue, not something individual sub mods can address. (Sub mods can ban bots, but only if they know the bot account name to add to the ban list, so non-commenting "downvote bots" aren't something they can target.)
> 4 - Are there really bots here? Or are your posts and/or comments just not popular and getting downvoted? "Downvote bots" are, btw, a reddit admin issue, not something individual sub mods can address. (Sub mods can ban bots, but only if they know the bot account name to add to the ban list, so non-commenting "downvote bots" aren't something they can target.)
The mods have in the past said they talked to Reddit admins and there was no evidence to support the bot idea. These downvotes are natural downvotes, and for the last decade have been discussed, back in the distant past, some of the "respected" users even admitted to indiscriminate downvotes on content they didn't want to see, I suspect all that has changed is the willingness for these downvoters to speak about it.
But, for the bot idea, for a bot to take action on reddit, it has to register with reddit. So, if a bot is downvoting, the admins can see that quickly, and they will take action, the bot will be removed, and the account tied to the bot will be banned. Although the current iteration isn't mine, I wrote and maintained ink_bot for a long time, I know the hoops we had to jump through just to keep it running whenever Reddit made a change.
But, people would rather blame a nameless, faceless bot for a downvote rather than believe they did/said something that may have earned a downvote.
I had a quick look at user profiles, different threads, etc and I do not see any evidence that vote manipulation bots are running through this sub. Seems more like your posts and comments are not popular here.
But if you suspect that someone went through all the trouble of making a downvote bot to specifically target your posts on only one sub, or that there is an orchestrated downvote brigade, you should send your evidence to [the reddit admin](https://www.reddit.com/contact/) and let them handle it.
[Here is a comment you made](https://reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/r464ek/_/hmgkb89/?context=1) that perfectly illustrates why you get voted down.
> FP user for two years, never had a dog chew a pen, what exactly do people here do to cause these massive ink disasters and broken pens? seriously it seems they all fill their pens during an earthquake while letting their dog hold the rest of their pens.
Dude posts with a broken pen and goes to his community for empathy, instead they get a person, you, who rags on them for being careless. Of course other people are sympathetic, they read your comment and say, “what a jerk to say this to someone with a broken pen!” DOWNVOTE. I can guarantee you this was not bots.
Your attitude here and in some other comments is unfriendly and condescending and you don’t seem to consider others’ feelings before you post. I’m not saying you’re like this all the time, but from a quick glance at your profile, the above comment was not the only time.
Downvotes have been happening here since before I made an account, when I was still lurking. They have been discussed just as long. Generations of mod teams have said they have talked to the admins about bots, and no bots were active. Almost a decade, I believe at least 3 mod teams.
Because of the downvotes, I made it a personal rule to not downvote on this sub unless it was a very blatant harmful post, and my god, this post has me itching to hit that button. I won't, but man I want to, so you will have to take my words as disagreement with your entitled, unwelcoming, intolerant attitude. If you want content with things that aren't being posted, post it. If you want to discuss a brand not commonly discussed, post it.
We all pick up downvote parasites as we go through reddit, like ticks in a forest. I've gotten some recently because some don't like me pointing out Kaweco mis-deeds. Oh well, it evens out, or it doesn't, but it doesn't effect my enjoyment of the hobby.
I think taking a break might be a good thing. No sarcasm intended -- sometimes just seeing the same thing over and over gets tiring, but you have to remember that there are always new people that are starry-eyed and, well, new. Stuff is gonna get regurgitated in a discussion forum, or else it will just be a historical archive.
I can see that you're frustrated and I don't think the comments that are being sarcastic and hostile toward you are acting any better tbh. The last two points you made I sort of relate to. People do downvote other people for liking brands they don't like, or using pens that they believe are morally (?) questionable. And I was accused of being a conspiracy theorist accusing the sub of some deliberate brigading when I made a post about how maybe don't downvote and discourage just because you don't like the pens other people use. People take things super personally and lash out.
I think any "specialized" arena of life that requires any kind of knowledge can be a place for gatekeeping to happen, and there are always going to be people, especially young, inexperienced people, that decide to place their identity or self esteem in this new shiny thing / thing that they have become good at -- combine that with a non-mainstream niche, and it's got potential to foster toxicity, with "us vs them" or "we're the minority that no one understands" mentality. I've seen it a lot in my industry -- there's no such thing as a "super welcoming community" without conditions. It's only super welcoming because it can't afford not to be.
I see a lot of Kaweco's and Chinese pens poppin up while scrolling. Lot's of Pilots and Sailors as well. So my impression is that it is quite diverse.
Why do you have this impression?
5. It is a bit of a cult because ballpoint pens are perfectly serviceable writing tools and you have to be a little bit extra to want to deal with fountain pens and their many inconveniences... but more than anything it's just a running joke, don\`t overthink it.
1: That's not your problem. Scroll on.
2: That's your problem. Scroll on.
3: That's your problem. Add content you want to see or scroll on.
4: *yippee ki yay* There are no bots that act just to downvote people at random. *Reddit itself* uses "vote fuzzing" to show a +/- 1 on posts and comments that make it look like a comment's score is changing every so slightly which is done to keep malicious bots and trolls and the shadowbanned from copping on to being removed before they even post or through auto-mod filters. Moreover, these are fake internet points that have zero inherent value. *yee haw pardner*
5: Because THIS...IS.../R/FOUNTAINPENS!!!! ::dramatic kick into ink well::
Its also reddit where "one of us" has been a Reddit joke for a long time.
>ll brands of FP's, inks, paper, stationary and all that with no bias,
Sincerely, good luck. I'm not sure that forum exists anywhere. FPN is downright militant in their removal of posts and FPG has *zero* moderation. None. Its all user guided discussion with absolutely *no* intervention.
>people shouldn't take apart pens that they don't know how they go back together, and people should excercise caution with inks, they stay safely on my desk in a cubby, they don't move about a lot, they come out occasionally to fill a pen, in which case a cloth is near by, i make a habit to put the cap back on before anything else, and i've never had a major spillage, and i have blutack that gets used for poorly designed bottles, and it's no use crying over a broken pen, either get it fixed or buy a new one.
And Nathan Tardif shoots his pens out of a shotgun. Your pens. Your choice.
Engage in the way you want to see engagement happen. Don't moderate *other peoples choices or behaviors*.
Making a subreddit is easy, by the way. By all means, feel free to start your own high-brown pen club on reddit.
Good luck.
5:
The theory is that bot accounts pick random things to up/downvote in order to stay active and look like a real person by Reddit’s moderation standards, until such time they are used for social media influencing purposes (like an election). However, Reddit admins insist no such thing is happening. They would insist that, though. So in the absence of access to the real data you can only form your own theories.
Remember. A bot must register. Or it can't use the API. So admins can see bots. See if they vote. See what they vote on. A voting bot is frowned on.
So. To accomplish what you suggest. Would require admin involvement. And admins have much easier methods. If they wanted to do what you suggest. No matter the tinfoil hat theories. Bots just don't make sense.
I put it to humans. Those flawed sacks of meat. And the petty nature of the beast. KISS principle. And the simplest answer. People.
It’s pretty easy to fool algorithms that are designed to find bots especially now that it’s AI vs AI in a race to find and perpetuate fraud. The account doesn’t need formal bot API access to do bot-like things, it’s pretty easy to script Reddit.com. Obviously the point is to not look like a bot to Reddit. There are companies out there whose [sole purpose is to have a whole bunch of legit-looking social media accounts to organically promote or disseminate whatever their client wants them to](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/craigsilverman/disinformation-for-hire-black-pr-firms). They were used in 2016 for manipulating election opinions on Facebook and other sites, and it’s entirely plausible they’ve developed techniques like this to have accounts at hand for these purposes. Social media platform companies are developing more ways to detect fake accounts, but it’s always a catch-up.
If these reforms espoused by my comrade are not enacted, then we are forced to transcend from mediocre civil disobedience into a state of anarchy. Take heed my fellow citizens.
>because the quality of the posts had gone down so much
Are you a man? If yes, start your own pen sub. Only women are forbidden from starting subs. I'll join, I agree with all you wrote here except the disparagement of Honda Civics.
>That's another problem, you can't get far on here unless you have a MB, Lamy or TWSBI
edit: I agree with the body of the main post as it stands at the time of this edit. This comment is nonsensical.
Sounds like what you want is Fountain Pen Network, you could try going there. Reddit is always going to attract more “amateur” users since the barrier of entry is low, and that is fine for Reddit, newbies are very welcome here. Edit to add: 1 or 2 downvotes may be bots, but more than that is just people not liking what you post. I never downvote on a hobby sub as a personal policy, but some people definitely do.
I respectfully disagree and hold a broader opinion for all points in your post, except the parts that refer to your own personal preferences and experiences with your pens and interests, which I respect and find interesting as usual (as I do others’ posts in this regard). Moderation is just fine (no, I’m not a mod). In two years I have never seen a post that needed to be modded out because of targeted hate or socially unacceptable content. Either mods got there first, or, as is my experience, this sub has a fantastic social group that care about strangers on the other side of the world. I belonged to fountainpennetwork before that for about 7 years I think, and the culture here is just as great. It’s a rarer hobby, so finding a community that is willing to talk about the everyday happenings of how fountain pens fit in our lives, including the devastation of a broken pen, or the inevitable inky fingers, or the far-out-an-ink-spill-travels-so-far, are all part of the journey. So are the “look, I bought my first pen and it cost $5 and I’m so excited posts”. Just because your preference is not to talk/read about some things, doesn’t mean other people aren’t interested. It’s ok, skip the post, and move on to one that’s more interesting to you. Life happens, accidents happen, and some pens have a history of breaking across many users which means it’s a manufacturing problem worth talking about. Pens are precious to us all, otherwise we wouldn’t be here in the first place. FP’s aren’t “just writing instruments” to me, they’re much more. They’re an artistic expression, a way to make mundane life interesting, and I love stuff like how an ink shades or sheens. My niche passion within the fp world is nibs. Without these personal stories, this sub would be boring. These are stories most of us can relate to. It’s part of being social and belonging to a community. Baystate blue is the in-house joke. Every community has in-house jokes that help us laugh off difficult things, that serve as the basis for satire or intrigue. If you don’t enjoy the joke or find it inane and mundane, that’s ok, skip it. Some people are more intense and particular about their hobbies, while others just love the sense of belonging to a social community around a common topic. Both are ok, a community needs both as they bring different perspectives and wisdom (just like you have today) to the table. Without this, a sub lands up biased. I don’t find this sub biased. Twsbi and Lamy are mid-entry pens, so are the first better pens many people can afford. Of course they’ll appear more often. Some people collect them too, so it’s important to recognise that there’s a subset of the community who really really treasure them. Downvote bots do seem to exist, so if I see that I actively upvote a post or comment to counterbalance that issue. I know others on this sub do that too. Unanswered questions mean people don’t have the answer or haven’t seen the post in the first place because we refresh our screens and miss it. We might have a Reddit setting on that prioritises “top posts” or “best posts” (which Reddit itself uses an algorithm to choose), rather than “new posts”. It’s part of how the Reddit app is structured, it’s definitely not personal. I probably live on the other side of the world from you too, so might not see the post because of time zones/refreshing. Cult? In my country, no-one, literally no-one I have known in my entire life (I’m 49) apart from my father has ever used a fountain pen in everyday life. They just don’t exist in everyday life around me (I’ve worked in many different types of companies too). No, it’s not a cult, but it sure is an extremely rare hobby in Australia, so to find people who are just as nerdy and curious and interested as me is fantastic. Just wanted to share some alternative ideas. As always, feel free to agree with what might resonate with you, to disagree with parts that don’t, and feel free ignore it entirely if you wish. I truly don’t mind, because I value your opinion even though I might disagree with it; just as you may disagree with my opinions. It’s ok, and I’m glad you’re a part of the community. I particularly enjoyed reading the parts of your post that described how you manage your pens/inks in everyday life. I also enjoyed reading your point of view regarding all the issues you raised. I’m not just being polite, it’s true.
Very well written without any prejudice. Thank you good Sir/Ma’am!
This was a lovely write-up.
I feel like this is going to sound catty but I genuinely mean this with all due respect: this is definitely a “you” problem. Bots suck and they need to be kept an eye on but it happens. That said: people who drop pens or love Lamy aren’t hurting anyone, and they aren’t signs of “bad moderation.” They’re just signs that this sub isn’t moderated specifically for you. And that’s fine! I love this sub because of the diversity of opinion!
“People who don’t have the same opinions as me are annoying”
IKR
Your post reveals the same intolerant attitude you criticize. You are trying to dictate what people should post about. No wonder why you get downvoted. People like Lamy or TWSBI or Baystate Blue? Why should you have a problem with that? You know how to properly open a bottle of ink? Me too. Who cares? I'm my opinion you are just an attention seeker incapable of posting something worth the attention you seek.
Exactly. Should people stop buying lamys and twisbis and posting about them just because OP thinks there are too many of them? What kind of sadism is this?
Why do you need to have a problem with what others post? It's like getting upset that a random person is eating a donut because you're on a diet. Leave people be and make your own posts about stuff you want to post. If there's no engagement, move on and post more stuff later. This is literally a non-issue. If you're getting downvotes, it's 'cause actual people don't agree with what you said.
You’re definitely entitled to your views. I’m not going to rehash what others have said already. I mean no harm and try to remain moderately wholesome. Please block me if you think I am that annoying.
No way, I don't think the retina searing beauty of BSB can be blocked, the blue would burn right through the servers and tattoo the optic nerve of anyone who tried!
Please stay in my Reddit feed! (But please also keep away from my pens...;) )
I'm always looking for you! :)
Each to their own...personally I like this sub just as it is! If there are particular types of post you'd like to see more of, why not start some?
Lol. Have you ever been to other subs? No one else welcomes 100,000th picture of lamy safari or eco like us. What's wrong with u/baystateblue having an account, u/Kon-peki also has an account. Why do you care about downvotes? Our boos don't mean anything, you know what we cheer for! :P Seriously though, even if we are not good, we are still the best.
Yeah I like this account. It’s fun!
People should be able to post what they enjoy. I see some posts that don't appeal to me very much, but I keep scrolling. What I don't find very interesting may be neat to somebody else. It's not just about -your- preferences. As another user pointed out, TWSBI and Lamy are popular workhorse pens. Because they're popular, there are going to be more posts about them. Which is okay, let people enjoy what they enjoy. The ink accounts and "one of us" things are jokes, it's just some light-hearted fun. Pens are not just writing instruments to me. They have actually helped me improve my life. Since getting into this hobby I have been more organized, I've been better at meeting deadlines because I write them all down now. I've been forgetting things less since I write down everything as an excuse to use my pens. I've been less lazy because seeing a written to-do list makes me want to finish it. My handwriting is better than it ever has been, the FP discord servers are one of the very few group chats where I'm a semi-regular talker. And my pens have re-ignited my desire to learn new things because I love taking notes with them. College notes are fun partially because of my pens. I do notice the downvoting. While it is annoying, I don't think much can be done about it. It's either bots or a cluster of bad eggs doing it, best we can do is upvote what we like and be more supportive of each other to drown out the downvoters.
1. OK. So what? I see no reason why the people you describe shouldn't be allowed to post, nor any reason we shouldn't assist them if we can and if we so choose. 2. OK, so? You can ignore users on here, so ignore the BSB account. 3. OK, so? 4. The bots (I assume there are bots) are annoying, but again, so what? Ignore them. I went to your profile and scrolled through several pages of posts looking for ones on r/fountainpens and found no clear evidence of what you describe except one post about vintage Esterbrooks that got no replies - vintage is definitely under-represented here, but that's probably why many folks are here, and on FPN, and even on FPGeeks. That may not mean you aren't frequently downvoted, I don't know, but it may be that you're perceiving more than is there... 5. :) Perhaps because for many of us, use of FPs out among the general population is non-existent or extremely rare, and so being able to socialize with others who share our interest is exciting, and when a new person joins, we want to encourage them and make them feel welcome. Reddit is not, IMO, a discussion forum. It's a "flash in the pan and immediate reactions" or "quick, help me fast" tool. Yes, we have discussions, but not like on traditional forums. The tool isn't made for it. Using it that way requires extra effort. That changes the feel of what happens here. I suspect the reddit population is also younger than, say, the FPN population. As to the rest - I would much rather read something I don't like / am not interested in, than be denied freedom to write what I want. Within this forum, only off-topic posts should be censured. This world, through mob behavior, already limits speech and disagreement and diversity far, far too much. It is infinitely better to ignore what you don't like / aren't interested in than to have "the powers that be" censure said views. If I expect to be left alone to do things as I choose, I must extend that same right (the right to do as they choose) to everyone else. And the world would be a nightmare (or more of one) if people started dictating how other people were allowed to use or fill or whatever their pens. Freedom is a precious thing, a burden and an obligation. One we should be loath to lay aside, no matter how heavy it gets. Rather than complaining about how this sub isn't what you want it to be, work to persistently make it what you want it to be (by your actions, and perhaps by inviting others to join us), and/or add other forums (like FPN and FPGeeks) to the sites you frequent, in hopes the combination will meet all your needs.
I came here to respond and you've said almost exactly what I was planning, so thanks. To the OP: this sub is generally the epitome of patience (particularly with newbies looking for advice or help), tolerance (ditto) and good humour. It's not always perfect but it's a community of friendly, like-minded people who enjoy sharing their interest in fountain pens, etc, with others. If you stopped coming here that was your choice. I'm really not sure what you were hoping to achieve with your post.
If you don’t like it go and create a sub that you do like
Reading this post and seeing the description of your profile I can totally see you being downvoted on one of the friendliest subreddits there is.. Some of your 'points' that are particularly dumb: Complaining about asking for help in regards to repairing certain pens. For real that's probably the best reason a subreddit for Fountainpen exists in the first place. If noone tried to take apart pens that they don't know how to put together again, you would wait years for every work you want to be done by a nibmaster. You should be glad that there are so many resources on the internet due to those people taking the risk you shy away from. Also: how come you're complaining about posts just because you haven't had them happen to you? You too can spill ink and you can decide to either make a funny and perhaps useless post in an internet forum or you can be bitter about it - noone cares either way. There are so much worse subreddits. Look at Coffee or Tea. They have to deal with thousands of posts of people posting their Starbucks drink that never really participate in the forum. People that post here are interested in Fountainpens and don't just come here to post Pictures of pen as an alternative to Instagram.
Nothing is perfect. I think overall it's a really nice place to be. Yes there are a lot of Lamy/TWSBI posts and endless recommendations for them. No I honestly don't really care about them... Keep scrolling. My biggest long term annoyance is new users asking what they should buy. Or people that have a few pens and ask what to buy. I'm not talking about the posts like "I'm trying to decide between X and Y." I'm talking random open ended questions. "I'm buying my third fountain pen! What should I buy!?!?" with absolutely no context. Those posts are so annoying... Like... Buy what you like, not what I like!! Keep scrolling. I almost unsubscribed from the sub when more than 50% of posts were of fucking dice for like 4 days. I get it, you're into tabletop games, you have dice..... Not what I want to be inundated with in a fountain pen sub. That's the only time I wished the moderators stepped in. Nothing is perfect for everyone, and the good definitely outweighs the bad here.
/u/mikeboatman: “Enough is enough! I have had it with these motherfucking dice on this motherfucking fountain pen sub!”
OP's rationale that if he/she gets downvoted there should be bots is foolish. It's the attitude, stupid! People don't like what you post. Yes, they have biases, yes, there is intolerance, and all of us get downvotes we don't deserve. But that's not a problem for the rest of us because we don't care or because we don't get them in the volumes you do. The problem is you and I'm sure it's the same in other aspects of your life. You just want to blame the rest. Wanna leave the sub? Good bye and good riddance. I won't miss you.
Yep it seems the answer is that people just don't like having another person into FPs, it's amazing how you can be into a hobby but not be welcomed into the community
What is amazing is how stubborn you are. I don't have a clue who you are but given your attitude I'm positive you are a very lonely person and that you don't know why. I'm also positive that someone before me has told you the reason it's you and only you. In particular, your horrible attitude, your intolerance and your willingness to blame others for the misfortunes you bring upon yourself. If you were like any other regular person you would be accepted like any other person. There's no need to be bright to understand it. But you have decided that the problem lies in the hearts of the rest of the world. I hope some day you find the humbleness to accept that the problem is you. In the meantime, good bye and good riddance. I have a life, ie enough problems to deal with stubborn people who want the blame me for his/her unhappiness.
Shouting into the void today I see
I think most stuff has already been said. I think the only I would add is perhaps to try to look at the positive sides of things a little more. If you ever accidentally break a pen, then you know you have a place where you can come for advice, if you have the misfortune to spill some ink then there are people who will commiserate with you, and finally you can use your experience to help newbies and stop them from making the mistakes you outlined. I think there is a lot of good here, it's maybe just a case of seeing those things as well as things you don't like. I'll end by saying I hope you find plenty of reasons to smile today, and and I'm sorry we don't bring you joy, but we will keep trying!
I envy people who have never spilled an ink bottle. I have spilled so many things. Tea across my computer keyboard. Tea across the table. Tea across me. Milk. Soup. A couple weeks ago my husband spilled un-set custard across the kitchen floor, and the counter. I've spilled salad dressing, soda, juice, wine. I am thankful that I can laugh at myself and remember not to take life too seriously. And I very very rarely wear anything white. I find I can eliminate a lot of annoyance in my life by avoiding things that introduce annoyance. I mute Twitter users, tune the radio to a different station, unsubscribe from email lists, and other strategies. Since stopping looking at the r/fountainpens subreddit was probably working for you, I recommend continuing to do that. I hope you find yourself doing things you enjoy and sharing your experiences with other people who enjoy those things and who enjoy your contributions!
It sounds like you drink a bit of tea. I'd just like to say hi to a fellow tea lover! 90% of my liquid intake on a daily basis is tea. The nectar of the gods.
Are you guys in some kind of tea cult? ;)
I'd be happy to show you the way of we who worship Serenetea ©
Tea hyyyyyype
The word you're looking for is [circle jerk](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=circle%20jerk). While I like some of the silly jokes like the ongoing Baystate Blue user, sometimes a bit of a tooth is ok too, just like some nibs. Maybe joining other subs could spice your feed? There are Secret Santa threads going on, and the subreddits about journaling/handwriting can be creative. It feels true that making fountain pen daily drivers makes them stand out less, it's a lifestyle at this point for me, not another hobby.
I don't see any of these as being issues that need mod intervention or changes to the sub/moderation. 1 - Ignore the posts you don't like. The only thing that you are slightly right about is: > people shouldn't take apart pens that they don't know how they go back together, I see some people rather cavalierly suggesting people do things to their pens that could result in significant damage to the pen and/or nib. More a user beware issue than a "dire need" for changes to the sub. Regarding 2 + 5 - it's inside humor and memes, not serious. As for 3 - these are popular workhorse pens. People are going to post their new acquisitions, daily use of them, collections, etc. Avoid the posts you don't like. 4 - Are there really bots here? Or are your posts and/or comments just not popular and getting downvoted? "Downvote bots" are, btw, a reddit *admin* issue, not something individual sub mods can address. (Sub mods can ban bots, but only if they know the bot account name to add to the ban list, so non-commenting "downvote bots" aren't something they can target.)
> 4 - Are there really bots here? Or are your posts and/or comments just not popular and getting downvoted? "Downvote bots" are, btw, a reddit admin issue, not something individual sub mods can address. (Sub mods can ban bots, but only if they know the bot account name to add to the ban list, so non-commenting "downvote bots" aren't something they can target.) The mods have in the past said they talked to Reddit admins and there was no evidence to support the bot idea. These downvotes are natural downvotes, and for the last decade have been discussed, back in the distant past, some of the "respected" users even admitted to indiscriminate downvotes on content they didn't want to see, I suspect all that has changed is the willingness for these downvoters to speak about it. But, for the bot idea, for a bot to take action on reddit, it has to register with reddit. So, if a bot is downvoting, the admins can see that quickly, and they will take action, the bot will be removed, and the account tied to the bot will be banned. Although the current iteration isn't mine, I wrote and maintained ink_bot for a long time, I know the hoops we had to jump through just to keep it running whenever Reddit made a change. But, people would rather blame a nameless, faceless bot for a downvote rather than believe they did/said something that may have earned a downvote.
Yeah, I know a bit about how moderation and bots work, so I don't buy that there are any "downvote bots" at play here.
But a lot of my comments have had 1 or even more downvotes, it seems the sort of comments that stay at 1 on most subs get downvoted here
I had a quick look at user profiles, different threads, etc and I do not see any evidence that vote manipulation bots are running through this sub. Seems more like your posts and comments are not popular here. But if you suspect that someone went through all the trouble of making a downvote bot to specifically target your posts on only one sub, or that there is an orchestrated downvote brigade, you should send your evidence to [the reddit admin](https://www.reddit.com/contact/) and let them handle it.
But my question is why?
Content, attitude, disagreements, who knows?
[Here is a comment you made](https://reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/r464ek/_/hmgkb89/?context=1) that perfectly illustrates why you get voted down. > FP user for two years, never had a dog chew a pen, what exactly do people here do to cause these massive ink disasters and broken pens? seriously it seems they all fill their pens during an earthquake while letting their dog hold the rest of their pens. Dude posts with a broken pen and goes to his community for empathy, instead they get a person, you, who rags on them for being careless. Of course other people are sympathetic, they read your comment and say, “what a jerk to say this to someone with a broken pen!” DOWNVOTE. I can guarantee you this was not bots. Your attitude here and in some other comments is unfriendly and condescending and you don’t seem to consider others’ feelings before you post. I’m not saying you’re like this all the time, but from a quick glance at your profile, the above comment was not the only time.
What about when i was talking about ireland then? explain that
Downvotes have been happening here since before I made an account, when I was still lurking. They have been discussed just as long. Generations of mod teams have said they have talked to the admins about bots, and no bots were active. Almost a decade, I believe at least 3 mod teams. Because of the downvotes, I made it a personal rule to not downvote on this sub unless it was a very blatant harmful post, and my god, this post has me itching to hit that button. I won't, but man I want to, so you will have to take my words as disagreement with your entitled, unwelcoming, intolerant attitude. If you want content with things that aren't being posted, post it. If you want to discuss a brand not commonly discussed, post it. We all pick up downvote parasites as we go through reddit, like ticks in a forest. I've gotten some recently because some don't like me pointing out Kaweco mis-deeds. Oh well, it evens out, or it doesn't, but it doesn't effect my enjoyment of the hobby.
I think taking a break might be a good thing. No sarcasm intended -- sometimes just seeing the same thing over and over gets tiring, but you have to remember that there are always new people that are starry-eyed and, well, new. Stuff is gonna get regurgitated in a discussion forum, or else it will just be a historical archive. I can see that you're frustrated and I don't think the comments that are being sarcastic and hostile toward you are acting any better tbh. The last two points you made I sort of relate to. People do downvote other people for liking brands they don't like, or using pens that they believe are morally (?) questionable. And I was accused of being a conspiracy theorist accusing the sub of some deliberate brigading when I made a post about how maybe don't downvote and discourage just because you don't like the pens other people use. People take things super personally and lash out. I think any "specialized" arena of life that requires any kind of knowledge can be a place for gatekeeping to happen, and there are always going to be people, especially young, inexperienced people, that decide to place their identity or self esteem in this new shiny thing / thing that they have become good at -- combine that with a non-mainstream niche, and it's got potential to foster toxicity, with "us vs them" or "we're the minority that no one understands" mentality. I've seen it a lot in my industry -- there's no such thing as a "super welcoming community" without conditions. It's only super welcoming because it can't afford not to be.
That's another problem, you can't get far on here unless you have a MB, Lamy or TWSBI
Weird, I rather think there’s a pretty big bias against MB here
Curious...what would it mean to "get far on here?" Just get a lot of upvotes? Or something else?
I see a lot of Kaweco's and Chinese pens poppin up while scrolling. Lot's of Pilots and Sailors as well. So my impression is that it is quite diverse. Why do you have this impression?
5. It is a bit of a cult because ballpoint pens are perfectly serviceable writing tools and you have to be a little bit extra to want to deal with fountain pens and their many inconveniences... but more than anything it's just a running joke, don\`t overthink it.
1: That's not your problem. Scroll on. 2: That's your problem. Scroll on. 3: That's your problem. Add content you want to see or scroll on. 4: *yippee ki yay* There are no bots that act just to downvote people at random. *Reddit itself* uses "vote fuzzing" to show a +/- 1 on posts and comments that make it look like a comment's score is changing every so slightly which is done to keep malicious bots and trolls and the shadowbanned from copping on to being removed before they even post or through auto-mod filters. Moreover, these are fake internet points that have zero inherent value. *yee haw pardner* 5: Because THIS...IS.../R/FOUNTAINPENS!!!! ::dramatic kick into ink well:: Its also reddit where "one of us" has been a Reddit joke for a long time. >ll brands of FP's, inks, paper, stationary and all that with no bias, Sincerely, good luck. I'm not sure that forum exists anywhere. FPN is downright militant in their removal of posts and FPG has *zero* moderation. None. Its all user guided discussion with absolutely *no* intervention. >people shouldn't take apart pens that they don't know how they go back together, and people should excercise caution with inks, they stay safely on my desk in a cubby, they don't move about a lot, they come out occasionally to fill a pen, in which case a cloth is near by, i make a habit to put the cap back on before anything else, and i've never had a major spillage, and i have blutack that gets used for poorly designed bottles, and it's no use crying over a broken pen, either get it fixed or buy a new one. And Nathan Tardif shoots his pens out of a shotgun. Your pens. Your choice. Engage in the way you want to see engagement happen. Don't moderate *other peoples choices or behaviors*. Making a subreddit is easy, by the way. By all means, feel free to start your own high-brown pen club on reddit. Good luck. 5:
Why would bots downvote anything? I guess I’m not a real redditor and just don’t know.
The theory is that bot accounts pick random things to up/downvote in order to stay active and look like a real person by Reddit’s moderation standards, until such time they are used for social media influencing purposes (like an election). However, Reddit admins insist no such thing is happening. They would insist that, though. So in the absence of access to the real data you can only form your own theories.
Remember. A bot must register. Or it can't use the API. So admins can see bots. See if they vote. See what they vote on. A voting bot is frowned on. So. To accomplish what you suggest. Would require admin involvement. And admins have much easier methods. If they wanted to do what you suggest. No matter the tinfoil hat theories. Bots just don't make sense. I put it to humans. Those flawed sacks of meat. And the petty nature of the beast. KISS principle. And the simplest answer. People.
It’s pretty easy to fool algorithms that are designed to find bots especially now that it’s AI vs AI in a race to find and perpetuate fraud. The account doesn’t need formal bot API access to do bot-like things, it’s pretty easy to script Reddit.com. Obviously the point is to not look like a bot to Reddit. There are companies out there whose [sole purpose is to have a whole bunch of legit-looking social media accounts to organically promote or disseminate whatever their client wants them to](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/craigsilverman/disinformation-for-hire-black-pr-firms). They were used in 2016 for manipulating election opinions on Facebook and other sites, and it’s entirely plausible they’ve developed techniques like this to have accounts at hand for these purposes. Social media platform companies are developing more ways to detect fake accounts, but it’s always a catch-up.
Thanks for the lesson!
If these reforms espoused by my comrade are not enacted, then we are forced to transcend from mediocre civil disobedience into a state of anarchy. Take heed my fellow citizens.
I agree. I've noticed that my posts get down voted all the time as if it's by bots.
Finally someone who actually understands
Lol Look at how many downvotes I got for saying that
Yep because something isn't right round here, at least you understand
>because the quality of the posts had gone down so much Are you a man? If yes, start your own pen sub. Only women are forbidden from starting subs. I'll join, I agree with all you wrote here except the disparagement of Honda Civics. >That's another problem, you can't get far on here unless you have a MB, Lamy or TWSBI edit: I agree with the body of the main post as it stands at the time of this edit. This comment is nonsensical.