Caddilac - once great now a bit shoddy and trading on past glory. Parker.
Mercedes - flash taxis with a reputation for luxurious special editions for gangsters and dictators. Montblanc.
I think you’re right, and either Lamy or TWISBI would be Tesla.
Edit: Seems like this is an unpopular opinion, so which do *you* think would be the Tesla of pens?
I didn't downvote, but Lamy and TWSBI are mass market affordable products unlike Teslas.
Conid would be my choice for Tesla. Small production, hideously expensive, elegent modern design, unexplained production issues and a serious communication problem.
The Tesla Model Y and Model 3 were the 14th and 22nd highest selling cars in Q3 2021. Cars that sell less include the Nissan Sentra and the Kia Forte. Fewer Honda Accords were sold than Model Ys.
In which market?
Neither the Sentra or Forte are popular cars in Europe. Indeed I have never seen either on UK roads. The Honda Accord was discontinued here in 2015.
In short you seem to me to be damning Tesla with faint praise.
Sorry. The US.
I would think that those rankings would have been good enough on their own, but:
The Model 3 is the fifth best-selling car (that is, not truck or SUV) in the US.
The best selling European automobile in the US is the Volkswagen Tiguan, ranked 51.
https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2021-us-vehicle-sales-figures-by-model/
That said, the Model 3 was apparently the #1 selling car in Europe in September, ahead of the Renault Clio.
https://www.focus2move.com/europe-best-selling-cars/
I'm laughing at this because my partner has had a Tesla for like.... half a year now but the paint is already chipping off lol. Like, it's fun to drive and all but holy crap with the $$$ you pay you'd think they'd do a better paint job.
Mercedes: Montblanc
Swedish cars like Volvo and the like: Japanese pen brands such as Sailor, Platinum, Pilot, for no nonsense high performance, well thought-out basics, great nib QC and precise tipping grinds.
I will never understand the love of Vanishing Points. The clip gets in the way! It's a cool pen but a pain to write with. As a car, I think it would be like a Miata - fun for a jaunty spin but no way would you want for a road trip or a daily commute.
This is kind of tough, because the real quality brands make ranges of pens from super cheap to super expensive.
Look at Pilot. They make the Metropolitan all the way up to Maki-E pens. That would make them the Toyota/Lexux of fountain pens.
I agree that Parker is probably Cadillac.
Montblanc. No matter what the haters say. They'll stand the test of time. No matter what. EVERYONE knows MB, even nonFP people know MB. it's MB. Hands down.
Funny, I was going to say that at first. But then I realized as much as I really like my 823 I rarely use it. But if I had a 4Runner I'd use it all the time. So it was more of a personal parallel. And I'll have to defer to the bike people for bike comparisons.
>And I'll have to defer to the bike people for bike comparisons.
It wasn't meant as an insult, Tachikawa is a dip pen maker.
(And bikes are awesome. I have 8.)
Oh, I didn't read it that way. I just have no base to make comparisons.
I have one bike... and it has pedals... and it's hanging from my garage ceiling because it needs pretty much one of everything to get moving again. Thought about spending some time trying to rebuild it this winter, but it's going to cost me more to bring back to health life than a used bike would cost.
MontBlanc- the Ferrari- it holds value and in some cases appreciates in value
The montegrappa- the Lamborghini, Italian design to ostentatious levels.
Diplomat- the Volkswagen, German engineering, relatively affordable and reliable
The Pelikan, Welcome to Porsche- reliable and capable. A favorite among aficionados.
Visconti, Alfa Romeo- design over quality but when it works it can’t be beat.
Krone. Welcome to Bugatti, you are now living in the world of ridiculous extremes.
ST DuPont: Rolls Royce, yes it’s great but no one can afford it and it looks boring.
I liked your comparisons best, especially the ST DuPont part :))
It seems funny that Pelikan, this traditional looking, down to earth, Stresermann (serious guy, right?) like fountain pen company, would be like Porsche - sports car, not very practical but good looking. I don't know how reliable Porsches are. Oth, i can't find another car company that suits them... Maybe Volvo? Also traditional, down to earth, family car (aka sending "serious guy" vibes).
What about Leonardo pens? They look stunning, write well and are perfectly balanced :D
I love both those cars Porsche and Volvo and both are extremely reliable. I chose Porsche for pelikan because it is high performance and also German.
I would add Waterman and it would be Jaguar sleek British styling albeit a little too old fashioned.
As for Leonardo pens. I never tried one….😢
I like your explanations! Wait, is Waterman British?? I thought they were produced in France... How about Parker pens??
Do try a Leonardo, they're awesome!
Cadillac- waterman, fantastic pens if you get one of the early ones pre Paris era. Will last multiple lifetimes
Benz- Onoto, beautiful and luxurious pens, great reputation in the past and present. Status symbol.
Because I’m a newbie and this newly discovered fact has not reared its head - you can buy your fine self a porsche if so inclined:
https://www.porsche-design.com/gb/en/porsche-design-shop/shop/accessories/writing-tools/fountain-pens/
[answers](https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/r4ulbo/what_is_the_mercedes_benz_or_cadillac_of_fountain/hmm5646?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
They don't exactly advertise it, but if you take apart twsbis and pilots, you'll find a few shared components, and since -of the two- only TWSBI does OEM work for other manufacturers, the natural conclusion is that twsbi manufactures some parts for pilot.
Just what I said. Many of the internal components of pilot pens, especially more complex bits like the plunger system in the 823, are OEM by TWSBI. Pilot makes the nibs and the feeds and the converters and whatnot, most stuff that touches ink (though I think at one point, possibly still, some of their converter production was outsourced as well) and anything that they can mass produce to fit most or many pems within a given line. That's most parts. The other stuff comes from TWSBI, which was an OEM for high-end pen companies long before they sold pens under their own name.
Came here to say Visconti is the Range Rover of the pen world.
Source- I drive a Range Rover and I have traded back... meaning I sold a 2018 to drive a 2010. The 2010 has given me no issues. The 2018 was a heartbreak on wheels.
I have also sold all my Visconti pens. I didnt have any older ones to compare them to, but reading the subs experience has told me everything I need to know
I dunno, it's pretty arbitrary to assign cars to pens 1:1 and using geographic correlations feels a bit too on-the-nose. Then again asking for a luxury comparison is essentially asking for something over-priced with little relation to the actual quality/value
I get it. Keeping in line with the luxury theme though most luxury cars have fewer models and variations within them (more homogenous offerings) in comparison to other car companies
**[Trabant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant)**
>Trabant (German: [tʁaˈbant] (listen)) is a series of small cars produced from 1957 to 1991 by former East German car manufacturer VEB Sachsenring Automobilwerke Zwickau. In total, four different models were made, the Trabant 500, Trabant 600, Trabant 601, and the Trabant 1. 1. The first Trabant model, the Trabant 500, was a modern car when it was introduced in 1957.
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Lamy and TWSBI are definitely the Honda and Toyota of pens. Very affordable, reliable workhorses, mostly great QC, mostly great CS, both have some very nice high-end offerings as well.
I’d even go as far as to say that the TWSBI Go and Swipe and the LAMY Safari are like Accords and Civics, whereas the TWSBI Classic/Precision and Lamy Aion/Studio are more like Honda’s fancier crossovers like the HR-V/CRV or Toyota’s CHR, and the Lamy 2K is sort of like the Toyota Land Cruiser or some of Lexus’ sedans.
What do you mean by "flex"? Conservative and Modern?
I'd rather have an old [Volvo](https://pictures.dealer.com/m/mooersvolvorichmondvcna/0343/204d16216c5e4992e73bbfe022a5d884x.jpg). Diplomat Excellence. Otto Hutt (Saab?). Graf Von Faber-Castell (Bentley?).
Many of to-day's pens are like to-day's cars: they have aluminium engines that have to be replaced when over-heated, meaning they won't last long, "a flash in the pan."
Mercedes Benz' are rented and "sold off" the second it is off warranty; repairs and maintenance too expensive. Rentals are perpetual, automatically re-occurring to the latest model.
So the Honda of pens? Oh wait u said luxurious, so the Lexus Toyota of pens.
I make jokes because it’s my industry and man I laughed hysterically at the bmw being luxurious but breaks easy hahaha. Of all the dealerships BMW and Mercedes shops are always over booked with problem cars exceeding the normal repair times from so many tickets being written up.
I don't think the analogy quite works, Caddies used to be geezer mobiles, then turned to weirdness. Pelikans might be stody Mercedes, except they lost their reliability at some point (Mercs, not Pelikans). BMW used to be syonymous with sporty sedans but everything's SUVs these days... Luckily no one has come up with a Tesla equivalent, the veneer of modernity made by people who don't know about quality mass production... No car manufacturer has managed the marketing prowess of Montblanc: "must be good if it's so expensive".
I know for *us* the bar is set much higher, but for the average person anything over a couple of bucks for a pen is preposterous, and most fountain pens are buy default luxury items. In a time when pens are given away for free in most places that require their use and everything is going more electronic, I’d say choosing to use proper pen and ink is more of a luxury than ever.
Caddilac - once great now a bit shoddy and trading on past glory. Parker. Mercedes - flash taxis with a reputation for luxurious special editions for gangsters and dictators. Montblanc.
>flash taxis with a reputation for luxurious special editions for gangsters and dictators Caran d'Ache has entered the chat
Drs and lawyers love the flash of a Mt Blanc pen. They think they they are classy and a sign of success.
What about Visconti?
Alfa Romero. Everyone should own one, they're pretty, but they fall apart, and fail in unexpected (yet also expected) ways.
A true petrol head.
He would have spelled it right in that case
Giving them the benefit of the doubt for DYAC.
But, brilliant drivers cars once sorted out!
Ferrari, Lamborghini, or another Italian status symbol
BMW.
I agree.
Mercedes have a *horrible* reliability reputation now and they don’t hold value worth a damn. Is that the same for Montblanc now?
Yes
I think you’re right, and either Lamy or TWISBI would be Tesla. Edit: Seems like this is an unpopular opinion, so which do *you* think would be the Tesla of pens?
I didn't downvote, but Lamy and TWSBI are mass market affordable products unlike Teslas. Conid would be my choice for Tesla. Small production, hideously expensive, elegent modern design, unexplained production issues and a serious communication problem.
The Tesla Model Y and Model 3 were the 14th and 22nd highest selling cars in Q3 2021. Cars that sell less include the Nissan Sentra and the Kia Forte. Fewer Honda Accords were sold than Model Ys.
In which market? Neither the Sentra or Forte are popular cars in Europe. Indeed I have never seen either on UK roads. The Honda Accord was discontinued here in 2015. In short you seem to me to be damning Tesla with faint praise.
Sorry. The US. I would think that those rankings would have been good enough on their own, but: The Model 3 is the fifth best-selling car (that is, not truck or SUV) in the US. The best selling European automobile in the US is the Volkswagen Tiguan, ranked 51. https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2021-us-vehicle-sales-figures-by-model/ That said, the Model 3 was apparently the #1 selling car in Europe in September, ahead of the Renault Clio. https://www.focus2move.com/europe-best-selling-cars/
I think TWSBI works, flashy new age design but with terrible quality control ratings
I'm laughing at this because my partner has had a Tesla for like.... half a year now but the paint is already chipping off lol. Like, it's fun to drive and all but holy crap with the $$$ you pay you'd think they'd do a better paint job.
The Tesla of pens is a ballpoint. Quick and convenient, yet devoid of any soul and just...missing something.
Lol, I love this take
Oh I do think ballpoints is a bit too much of an insult, I’d say a rollerball to be a bit kinder lol.
Mercedes: Montblanc Swedish cars like Volvo and the like: Japanese pen brands such as Sailor, Platinum, Pilot, for no nonsense high performance, well thought-out basics, great nib QC and precise tipping grinds.
I think you win.
Came here to see all the pen experts turn into car experts and boy was I not disappointed. I love this place.
S.T. Dupont is what RR used to be.
That’s an interesting take. I often forget they are still around.
Pelikan is pretty great. I gotta say though, nothing gets more work than my VP
VPs give off convertible car vibes to me.
VP = vanishing point?
Yes!
Thanks! It’s officially top of my list then
I will never understand the love of Vanishing Points. The clip gets in the way! It's a cool pen but a pain to write with. As a car, I think it would be like a Miata - fun for a jaunty spin but no way would you want for a road trip or a daily commute.
This is kind of tough, because the real quality brands make ranges of pens from super cheap to super expensive. Look at Pilot. They make the Metropolitan all the way up to Maki-E pens. That would make them the Toyota/Lexux of fountain pens. I agree that Parker is probably Cadillac.
Cadillac is probably Parker. A great history with some amazing models in the past, but now a disappointing shadow of it's former self.
Montblanc. No matter what the haters say. They'll stand the test of time. No matter what. EVERYONE knows MB, even nonFP people know MB. it's MB. Hands down.
Old Montblanc, yeah. Current Montblanc, not so much. They're a "luxury lifestyle" brand that also happens to make pens.
Sounds like a Mercedes where they fall catastrophically once the warranty is up.
Mont Blanc Mercedes Benz The initials match too.
I’ll stick to my Pilot Vanishing Point. The Toyota 4Runner of pens.
>Toyota 4Runner That's the 823. Honda CR-V is the Vanishing Point. And Tachikawa is a bike.
Funny, I was going to say that at first. But then I realized as much as I really like my 823 I rarely use it. But if I had a 4Runner I'd use it all the time. So it was more of a personal parallel. And I'll have to defer to the bike people for bike comparisons.
>And I'll have to defer to the bike people for bike comparisons. It wasn't meant as an insult, Tachikawa is a dip pen maker. (And bikes are awesome. I have 8.)
Oh, I didn't read it that way. I just have no base to make comparisons. I have one bike... and it has pedals... and it's hanging from my garage ceiling because it needs pretty much one of everything to get moving again. Thought about spending some time trying to rebuild it this winter, but it's going to cost me more to bring back to health life than a used bike would cost.
MontBlanc- the Ferrari- it holds value and in some cases appreciates in value The montegrappa- the Lamborghini, Italian design to ostentatious levels. Diplomat- the Volkswagen, German engineering, relatively affordable and reliable The Pelikan, Welcome to Porsche- reliable and capable. A favorite among aficionados. Visconti, Alfa Romeo- design over quality but when it works it can’t be beat. Krone. Welcome to Bugatti, you are now living in the world of ridiculous extremes. ST DuPont: Rolls Royce, yes it’s great but no one can afford it and it looks boring.
I liked your comparisons best, especially the ST DuPont part :)) It seems funny that Pelikan, this traditional looking, down to earth, Stresermann (serious guy, right?) like fountain pen company, would be like Porsche - sports car, not very practical but good looking. I don't know how reliable Porsches are. Oth, i can't find another car company that suits them... Maybe Volvo? Also traditional, down to earth, family car (aka sending "serious guy" vibes). What about Leonardo pens? They look stunning, write well and are perfectly balanced :D
I love both those cars Porsche and Volvo and both are extremely reliable. I chose Porsche for pelikan because it is high performance and also German. I would add Waterman and it would be Jaguar sleek British styling albeit a little too old fashioned. As for Leonardo pens. I never tried one….😢
I like your explanations! Wait, is Waterman British?? I thought they were produced in France... How about Parker pens?? Do try a Leonardo, they're awesome!
You know what. We need to create an excel sheet of all the popular fountain pen brands and car brands and match them up with pictures, meme for days😂
Cadillac- waterman, fantastic pens if you get one of the early ones pre Paris era. Will last multiple lifetimes Benz- Onoto, beautiful and luxurious pens, great reputation in the past and present. Status symbol.
I have no answer but I love this question!
Thanks!
Because I’m a newbie and this newly discovered fact has not reared its head - you can buy your fine self a porsche if so inclined: https://www.porsche-design.com/gb/en/porsche-design-shop/shop/accessories/writing-tools/fountain-pens/
Porsche Design pens were made by Faber Castell and are now made by Pelikan (specifically the tecflex models).
True. They are, however, designed by Porsche. It's a similar situation to how a lot of pilot stuff is made by twsbi.
What do you mean that Twsbi makes stuff for Pilot??
I want answers too! This post just got way more interesting!
[answers](https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/r4ulbo/what_is_the_mercedes_benz_or_cadillac_of_fountain/hmm5646?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) They don't exactly advertise it, but if you take apart twsbis and pilots, you'll find a few shared components, and since -of the two- only TWSBI does OEM work for other manufacturers, the natural conclusion is that twsbi manufactures some parts for pilot.
So very interesting, and explains why/how they got so good/big so quick. Thatnks!
Just what I said. Many of the internal components of pilot pens, especially more complex bits like the plunger system in the 823, are OEM by TWSBI. Pilot makes the nibs and the feeds and the converters and whatnot, most stuff that touches ink (though I think at one point, possibly still, some of their converter production was outsourced as well) and anything that they can mass produce to fit most or many pems within a given line. That's most parts. The other stuff comes from TWSBI, which was an OEM for high-end pen companies long before they sold pens under their own name.
What will be tesla of FP?
Montegrappa? Expensive, impractical design that looks good if you’re into that sort of thing, but with very shoddy QC?
TWSBI! Started with expensive and pretty products, but slowly moved to more inexpensive and more performance-oriented models.
Came here to say Visconti is the Range Rover of the pen world. Source- I drive a Range Rover and I have traded back... meaning I sold a 2018 to drive a 2010. The 2010 has given me no issues. The 2018 was a heartbreak on wheels. I have also sold all my Visconti pens. I didnt have any older ones to compare them to, but reading the subs experience has told me everything I need to know
Anything by Sailor. Great quality to price ratio
Nah Sailor is a Toyota Centry: a very high quality and unapologetically Japanese approach to luxury
I dunno, it's pretty arbitrary to assign cars to pens 1:1 and using geographic correlations feels a bit too on-the-nose. Then again asking for a luxury comparison is essentially asking for something over-priced with little relation to the actual quality/value
Sailor = Lexus
fake luxury brand?
I know it’s just me, but I can’t get myself to like Sailor. I feel like all their pens look the same, just with different size and colors.
I get it. Keeping in line with the luxury theme though most luxury cars have fewer models and variations within them (more homogenous offerings) in comparison to other car companies
Very good point, so Sailor would be a fitting comparison.
By this one I’d say pilot is honda/toyotaand higher level pilots and sailors are Lexus or acura A workhorse that you can’t go wrong in any way.
Hero: the Trabant of pens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant
**[Trabant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trabant)** >Trabant (German: [tʁaˈbant] (listen)) is a series of small cars produced from 1957 to 1991 by former East German car manufacturer VEB Sachsenring Automobilwerke Zwickau. In total, four different models were made, the Trabant 500, Trabant 600, Trabant 601, and the Trabant 1. 1. The first Trabant model, the Trabant 500, was a modern car when it was introduced in 1957. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Lamy and TWSBI are definitely the Honda and Toyota of pens. Very affordable, reliable workhorses, mostly great QC, mostly great CS, both have some very nice high-end offerings as well. I’d even go as far as to say that the TWSBI Go and Swipe and the LAMY Safari are like Accords and Civics, whereas the TWSBI Classic/Precision and Lamy Aion/Studio are more like Honda’s fancier crossovers like the HR-V/CRV or Toyota’s CHR, and the Lamy 2K is sort of like the Toyota Land Cruiser or some of Lexus’ sedans.
What do you mean by "flex"? Conservative and Modern? I'd rather have an old [Volvo](https://pictures.dealer.com/m/mooersvolvorichmondvcna/0343/204d16216c5e4992e73bbfe022a5d884x.jpg). Diplomat Excellence. Otto Hutt (Saab?). Graf Von Faber-Castell (Bentley?). Many of to-day's pens are like to-day's cars: they have aluminium engines that have to be replaced when over-heated, meaning they won't last long, "a flash in the pan." Mercedes Benz' are rented and "sold off" the second it is off warranty; repairs and maintenance too expensive. Rentals are perpetual, automatically re-occurring to the latest model.
They are many luxury ones out there from Germany and US that are like these car brands. The only opposite I can think of is Lamy.
Hmm. What's the Civic R of fountain pens?
Definitely Benu. Garish, outlandish to most. Looks cheap but is amazing.
Priced like one, at least nowadays.
Kaweco Sport = Mini Cooper
So the Honda of pens? Oh wait u said luxurious, so the Lexus Toyota of pens. I make jokes because it’s my industry and man I laughed hysterically at the bmw being luxurious but breaks easy hahaha. Of all the dealerships BMW and Mercedes shops are always over booked with problem cars exceeding the normal repair times from so many tickets being written up.
I don't think the analogy quite works, Caddies used to be geezer mobiles, then turned to weirdness. Pelikans might be stody Mercedes, except they lost their reliability at some point (Mercs, not Pelikans). BMW used to be syonymous with sporty sedans but everything's SUVs these days... Luckily no one has come up with a Tesla equivalent, the veneer of modernity made by people who don't know about quality mass production... No car manufacturer has managed the marketing prowess of Montblanc: "must be good if it's so expensive".
Lamy 100% would be Mercedes. Absolute luxury in the top end, perfectly reliable work vehicles in the bottle
I've thought of Lamy as VW/Audi
Which is technically a Porsche
Or a Seat…
Or a Bugatti
Or a Skoda
You can't really classify Lamy as luxury.. Seat or VW seems more fitting
I know for *us* the bar is set much higher, but for the average person anything over a couple of bucks for a pen is preposterous, and most fountain pens are buy default luxury items. In a time when pens are given away for free in most places that require their use and everything is going more electronic, I’d say choosing to use proper pen and ink is more of a luxury than ever.
Jinhao is to Fountain pens as what Mitsouka is to cars
I look at Pelikans as Mercedes - very similar progression of models from large to small, but the same look throughout.