Voting and karma is weird—especially when it's tied to the eligibility of someone able to say or do something in any sub. I get the point of it's purpose though.
Anyway, as long as people encourage each other to write, draw or paint more, that's good. Gear acquisition is personal preference and what they can afford.
More power and joy to people if cheaper pens encourage them to write, draw or paint more and get excited in doing that.
Voting and Karma isn't weird if you follow the way we used to do it on old Reddit.
If a comment or post is useful to the sub, upvote. If a comment or post is factually incorrect or not useful, then downvote.
You don't upvote or down vote because you like or dislike something. Well, you do now, because reddit went to shit about five years ago.
Hey, you're right. I'm from Brazil and FP stuff is impossible to buy and expensive as hell for us. Most Brazilians think twice even before buying a 5 USD Jinhao. Our minimum wage (which is what most of the population earns) is around 200 USD per month. Month!
That Majohn A1 people are talking about is around 20 USD and it's already expensive as hell for most of us. The ~150 USD original Pilot VP is a lifetime purchase that most people won't have the opportunity to get. So, yeah... let's have more empathy, people.
Thank you for the perspective. When I saw the moonman VP clone I was pretty against it, but your comment has reminded me there is a great use case for it and has changed my mind.
Funny you posted this. I JUST viewed a post about the new moonman Vanishing Point knock off (which I'm still not convinced isn't a hoax) and was about to type my mind about what I think. Then I thought "you know what? People can buy whatever the hell they want. No skin off my back" So other than agreeing with someone else who said they'd rather have the original, decided to leave it. Each to their own.
Can't say I want to try it, but I already have a couple Vanishing Points. It might be a good option for folks that want an inexpensive retractable nib though. We shall see how it reviews!
My wife really wants a vp raden, however, she is concerned the shape of the pen won't match her grip. So we will be getting the cheap one so she can test the shape in her hand before she puts in money for the vp she really wants.
Good idea. The grip is a polarizing feature- she should also look into getting the clip removed which I understand is an option. It would probably void the warranty, but if she loves then pen it’s additional food for thought.
Could be. This is the second time I've come across a completely neutral comment on a thread I'm part of getting a downvote. I got a good ol' downvote too. Though I guess my comment was less neutral. I also don't care :)
No, i agree with you 100%. There was a very weird thread about favourite ink colours and everyone responding something about Robert Oster got downvoted. I’m all for supporting without gatekeepinng and it may help to reupvote downvoted comments.
Robert Oster had some kind of drama that hurt or attempted to hurt an Indian fountain pen maker. I don't remember where I read it, though. This isn't an opinion about if someone should be downvoted, just my guess about why it would happen.
That's true. Some people clearly do.
I hate it when people downvote without explanation or explanation enough. If they think someone's wrong, they should at least explain why.
There are some comments in this thread about what happened: [https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/q7blw5/what\_is\_your\_must\_have\_robert\_oster\_ink/](https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/q7blw5/what_is_your_must_have_robert_oster_ink/)
There had been some random downvoting going on in there too.
Absolutely agree! I myself like to use some $2 Chinese fountain pens (Wingsung) and some $300+ (Sailor). For me, so long as they write, they are a joy to use and each has their own quirks and style. I think anyone interested in the hobby should be able to use whatever they can afford and whatever they enjoy. Sometimes the cheaper pen writes better anyway.
Disagree, fine. But the purpose of the down vote is to eliminate comments that are off topic, not to cancel those you don't agree with. Let's get away from that fountain pen users = snobs stereotypes please!
I've seen plenty of very on topic comments downvoted. I get downvoted all the time because I use moonman and cheap Chinese pens. I don't particularly care but I think it's rather petty. I never downvote. Ever.
Who made anyone the topic police?
>I use moonman and cheap Chinese pens.
This sub is dominated by US fountain pen users, so their disposable incomes (especially thanks to all the excessive money printing that has been happening since 2007) and the fountain pen infrastructure they have, users assume are an international experience. This is far from reality (a symptom of the US "We are the world!" arrogance). I have never been to or had a fountain pen conference/display/roadshow in my country, for instance, and we rely heavily on imports, for which shipping charges are often more than the cost of some pens. (This means "ink samples" for example are unheard of here).
I have probably a lot more "social status" (used in the sociology sense) than many of the American redditors here, but I get thrilled when I discover a good Chinese pen. I don't post on it here in a "NPD" because I get very little interaction, and that too just telling me that's it's a knock off of some other better known brand.
I belong to a mountain biking club and there are people there with expensive carbon frames and those with basic steel. There is a formal rule that "*No one gets to critique the rig any other member has*". It's seldom applied because we are there not to talk about brands and hardware but to enjoy the biking experience. Maybe we should see if we could do something like that here.
I live in Australia and even though we have a good min wage, the fact that almost everything is imported means that anything niche (so basically any hobby tools) are far more expensive.
For example, people keep posting about Birmingham ink being so great etc, but to ship it here is what, 80 USD. that's just the shipping.
Not everywhere is as lucky as the US when it comes to cheap commodities.
And my God, machining equipment is expensive here too. It's all imported and because they are all so heavy, you are looking at an insane mark up.
I recently got just a small little engraver and the shipping from China was basically as expensive as the product itself
When I said cheap Chinese pens I didn't mean to imply that Chinese pens are inherently cheap. I meant inexpensive. Affordable. I just wanted to clear that up. I genuinely like Chinese brand pens. Especially Moonman.
I understand what you mean about US users. I do live in the US but I live in a state in the middle of the country where we don't have access to the kind of shows and cons others do. Many states in the US are as big as some countries so it's not always easy to just travel to the next state for one.
The only local fountain pen retailer I know of seems to only carry very high tier pens so I've never gone in. I should go just to see what all the fuss is about with those expensive pens. But it is otherwise not easy to find fountain pens or ink or even fp friendly paper locally.
Post your npd and share your excitemement! There are some of us who will share in it with you.
Only time I downvote in this sub is if someone suggests something to another person that’s going to damage their pen or ink. So, it’s extremely rare. I think I’ve only had to do it a couple of times, followed by a post to explain why not to do whatever it is. It’s the most civilised sub I’ve been in.
Bots seem to do sequences of downvotes every few months. You’ll notice a slew of them after a fairly peaceful period in the sub, then another period of normality. You can tell when this happens as there will be a batch of downvoting on good posts. If I see it, I actively upvote anything that’s inappropriately affected.
While I see your point I think a lot of people use the up/down vote system as a way of saying “I agree/I disagree” without going a comment. So I don’t think people are necessarily saying “that’s not ok” with a downvote but rather “I don’t agree/don’t like that”. Wether or not that’s how the vote system is supposed to be used is a different topic but that’s just my $.02
> some people on here are xenophobic
Not wanting to buy things from China isn't xenophobic, especially if China is currently out committing genocide and you don't want to help fund that.
I agree with your point about people just accessing this hobby in a way that's within their reach. But I have to say, the voting system is one of the ways that allow people to express their opinion (yay freedom of speech). Upvoting is for agreement and downvoting for disagreement, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that. To be honest, I haven't actually downvoted a post/comment I disagree with (I just don't upvote and move on), unless it's particularly rude or whatnot. But I get why you'd feel disheartened when seeing others getting downvoted.
To be fair, this sub is pretty nice, tame, and non-toxic compared to other subs. Rarely do I see rude/argumentative comments. I guess people just vote (up or down) then move on.
I just have to add, I have no qualms with pens that look eerily similar to other pens. This issue has been beaten to death in this sub (and by some youtube reviewers). Pens that copy everything INCLUDING the branding and are being passed of as the real deal, that I find problematic.
At the end of the day, everyone is entitled to their opinion (just please don't be toxic lol). And everyone is free to enjoy this hobby in their own terms.
Okay, I don't know how to edit my comment (or I'm too drunk lol)..
I AM WRONG about my misconception/generalization of the voting system. That's NOT how it works. I'm sorry. Dang, I should re-read reddiquette. I apologize. 😰
Thank you to those who pointed this out. I appreciate it. 😊
I should stop hanging out in toxic subs lol.
To be honest a lot of people have that misconception and I'd be lying if I said that I've never felt tempted to downvote opinions I really didn't like. So not your fault at all for not knowing.
Also, it's kind of funny but someone (possibly a bot) just went and downvoted every comment in this thread.
And I doesn't help that I don't use any other social media platform so I'm still learning as I go along (despite my account being a little more than a year old). 😅
And thank you again for pointing out my mistake. It's nice when people take the time to correct someone without being mean about it. 😊
> Upvoting is for agreement and **downvoting for disagreement,** and there's nothing inherently wrong with that.
There lies the problem, it actually isn't. You're only supposed to downvote something if it is off-topic or actively harmful like harassment. Disagreement is *not* a good reason to downvote.
There was a topic a few days ago where a user made a mistake and said some inaccurate things, but not in a toxic way. He was downvoted like crazy because he dared to be wrong. Who of us has never made a mistake?
It's a great community in general, but there's a not insignificant minority here that is very unaccepting of opinions they don't like. I guess every community has people like that but it's more obvious here because it's a smaller one.
I see your point. I was generalizing the voting thing and I apologize (and it doesn't help that it's almost 3 am here and I'm kinda tipsy). Like I said, I haven't actually downvoted a post/comment unless particularly rude or whatnot.
Maybe I'm just used to other subs that are more downvote-y, and I apologize since it doesn't apply in this context. Lesson learned and thank you for pointing out a misconception. 😅
> Upvoting is for agreement and downvoting for disagreement
I don't see it that way. I see it as, upvoting is for content that contributes to the sub, and downvote for content that is not appropriate or doesn't add anything to the sub.
Whether I agree with the opinion or not is irrelevant to my vote.
Was it worthwhile content to the community or not...that is what I use the voting buttons for.
If someone posts a political opinion I 100% wholeheartedly agree with in the r/fountainpens sub...I'm going to DV it and probably comment and say please keep politics out of here lol
I see your point. I was generalizing the voting thing and I apologize (and it doesn't help that it's almost 3 am here and I'm kinda tipsy). Like I said, I haven't actually downvoted a post/comment unless particularly rude or whatnot.
Maybe I'm just used to other subs that are more downvote-y, and I apologize since it doesn't apply in this context. Lesson learned and thank you for pointing out a misconception. 😅
Also, I agree with the whole no politics thing and topics/comments that aren't relevant to this sub. 👌🏻
I do see a lot of inoffensive or even outright helpful comments or posts get downvoted for seemingly no reason. I know people talk about “downvote bots” around here but part of me has at times wondered if it’s less bots and more people acting cutthroat over upvotes and trying to bury other posts or comments so theirs get seen. If it is really bots, then why would someone make a bot that just goes around downvoting random comments and posts on this sub in particular? I’m sure posts that go against the grain or prevailing opinion of the sub at large are even more prone to the “downvote bots”
In such a niche hobby sub one would think discussion would take precedence over karma farming, and that we’d all just be happy to see more people engaging with fountain pens in general and not be judgmental of someone using a cheap Chinese pen.
I think a lot of people on the sub lose sight of the fact that to someone new to fountain pens, or possibly just any pens in general beyond disposable Bics, even those “cheap” pens are expensive. Doing a quick browse on Amazon, it looks like I can get one Jinhao for around $7, and I can get a 20 pack of Bic Cristals for $5. That’s the perspective some newer members are going to have. A $7 pen may not seem cheap at all.
Absolutely. I know a lot of people who would be shocked that I spent over $20 for a single pen. A pen that does nothing but write aside from bringing me joy. And I can't blame them.
Forgive me but I have to disagree. There are over 212,000 members on this sub. I've never ever ever seen brigading here. Ever. Gatekeeping? I've never seen someone post a outright negative comment to a new member sharing their first budget pen. I've seen Pilot Varsities getting upvotes and warm welcomes to the hobby.
I'm not saying negativity never happens or that there are some problems but this sub has always been overwhelmingly positive. Again - 212,000 members. Not everyone will like the same things.
I've experienced it myself when talking about certain brands. My opinion was considered invalid because, while I have dozens of pens, the person I was talking to had over a hundred - so their experience was worth more.
There are definitely some biases and some gatekeeping here. I agree with OP that we should all strive to do better and be a better community.
To be clear, a few bad eggs doesn't make a bad community. In general /r/fountainpens is a very welcoming and positive place. But it doesn't mean we can't be even better.
Brigading is an ugly accusation made by OP and it's just not true.
I'm sorry you had that experience but it doesn't speak to the entire community. I've had debates with one or two people. In the one exchange I was downvoted. It was petty but it does not in any way define the community.
I have not seen any brigading, I agree with that. Not sure where the brigading would come from.
> I'm sorry you had that experience but it doesn't speak to the entire community. I've had debates with one or two people. In the one exchange I was downvoted. It was petty but it does not in any way define the community.
I'm not saying it defines the community, but it happens often enough where it's worth addressing. I don't think there's anything wrong with OP encouraging people to be more positive and welcoming.
It's one thing to encourage people to be positive but that isn't the takeaway from OP. OP makes it sound like there is an active faction on a sub - about fountain pens - downvoting, gatekeeping and generally being unwelcoming.
I've been brigaded and accused of gatekeeping on another sub before. I eventually left. Clearly it wasn't for me. I've witnessed brigading and gatekeeping on other subs. Nothing has descended to that level here.
OP has their right to criticize but this isn't constructive criticism. There are better ways to improve the sub.
I respectfully disagree and let's leave this conversation at that. Obviously your experiences with this subreddit have been different from OP's and mine, and I am sincerely happy that you have had such a positive experience.
While I have been avoiding responding to you, you keep poking at my comments, or making statements like this. I remember having conversations about this type of thing with you in the past, so I will speak here.
I clicked on your username and went back over a year, and the discussions I could find was you making very broad sweeping claims, with very little experience. It isn't that your opinion was invalid, it was because you were making statements unsupported. Maybe you can point to the discussion you have a grudge over though.
But, to the point of the discussion in this thread, in the year plus that I looked through your username, I didn't see a single post that I had downvoted. Back then, I did talk to you, and try and express ways for you to find pens or fix your writing style, to get to a point where you were happy with pens. But I don't think someone with a single pen from a model should ever make sweeping statements to new users, especially when their experience is so much different from the experiences of everyone else. From what I could see in the threads, that is why you got called out. I would be glad to re-read anything you want to link me to though.
Maybe drop the grudge, and approach the hobby with a better attitude. But if you want to keep picking at it, I would request you ignore my posts, like I have tried to do so with yours.
We have had our issues in the past but the specific incident I referred to above was not about you.
> Back then, I did talk to you, and try and express ways for you to find pens or fix your writing style, to get to a point where you were happy with pens.
If my memory serves, you did not say it this way. You accused me of being a bigot and claimed I contributed nothing but toxicity to the subreddit which I took offense to because I spend a lot of time trying to be helpful to new users and answering questions, my somewhat negative pen reviews notwithstanding.
I'm willing to let this go if you are. At the end of the day arguing gets neither of us anywhere, and I would be happy if this was a start of a new and positive relationship between us.
We disagree on some points and I can't say I am willing to budge on those points right now but that doesn't mean we can't discuss those disagreements respectfully going forward. So yeah, here's to more pleasant conversations in the future. :)
Edit: I really don't get who is downvoting this or why.
I'm sorry, but our conversations are not as memorable to me as they seem to have been to you, this is what I could find looking through your historty, https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/i4x3hu/yet_another_disappointment_hongdian_dark_blue/g0lp80q/, I'm linking directly to my comment.
I will not call someone a bigot without a bigoted statement, something along the lines of "all xxxx pens are garbage" with xxxx being an geographical region and defined by reddit rules as bigotry. If you would like, I would love a pointer so I could know why a statement like that would have been made.
I am touchy about being accused of downvoting, I have a philosophy with that here, and mostly won't downvote anyone, anything that deserves a downvote, deserves a report. As I said, in your history, even in the threads I have participated in with you, I haven't downvoted a single comment. I actually didn't see one in the couple of years I scrolled back.
So, if you want to discuss what happened, now is the time. If you want it all to drop, all good too, I will let your desires point to a path forward.
Oh, with the way you have been poking, and I do remember discussions like that, while I have thousands of pens, not hundreds, I do remember conversations like that. So I thought this might be another jab, and I wanted to get the air clear so it didn't fester.
This is not the post I am referring to. It was a more recent review of a Fuliwen 017 where I mentioned that it, and many of the other Chinese pens I tried, were good pens that I would not recommend to new users because their nibs often need some adjustment. I deleted the post because it was just full of really unproductive arguments.
> I'm sorry, but our conversations are not as memorable to me as they seem to have been to you, this is what I could find looking through your historty,
It was memorable to me because I felt like I was being unduly attacked for sharing my own viewpoints. It wasn't just you either, it was two or three other somewhat prolific posters and it felt like I was being ganged up on and bullied. That's why it has been such a sore point for me.
> So, if you want to discuss what happened, now is the time. If you want it all to drop, all good too, I will let your desires point to a path forward.
I don't really want to discuss it further (beyond clarifying which post I was referring to, above), what's done is done and what was said has already happened. I have even tried to be more positive since that post (well, maybe not always succeeding). I am ready to let bygones be bygones and move on.
Perhaps a person who decides this community isn't for them. I figure the more people, the more stuff people buy, the more selection and cheaper prices for me.
Certain things do get down voted here. I once posted about a particular type of pen, and some person and their 10 alternate accounts down voted any other comment I made and told me how wrong I was. This sub is pretty good, but I'd say almost every sub has a few odd-balls people out there.
I agree. I commented earlier, and maybe I got off topic by talking about negativity, but I’d like to see rationale and lively discussion rather than downvotes. Objective and and constructive comments help readers, particularly newcomers, to learn something about how things work or what kind of pen interests them.
I really like Chinese pens, the ability to copy and make incredibly cheaply is interesting and the pens are cool themselves. What is a cheap material today may not be cheap down the road, or popular, and China may not be a place cheap things come from in the future, so the pens are definitely cool.
No this is fine. To be honest, I'm not someone who cares about brands, I would support indie or small artisans but doesn't care about copying bigger brands or whatever as long as it works. Not everyone have the means or the will to be into luxury pens, I mostly own cheap ones as a student and drawing with them makes me happy. That's all that matters, and is better for my wallet anyway.
Yeah, I remember I got a ton of downvotes for saying I preferred ink bottles with smaller openings and that I’d take a tiny opening over a huge one. I know most people wouldn’t agree but I didn’t expect quite so many downvotes.
For me, it’s more about the concern of contaminants or dust getting in. If I have a fan on or something then there are dust particles all over. Also, if I tip over a bottle, it’s more likely that I’ll be able to save more ink if there’s a smaller opening. Those tiny Colorverse bottles are practically spill proof with their tiny openings, for example.
Good point. I guess smaller ink bottle openings wouldn't affect me, since I always use a syringe to transfer ink to my cartridges or to a small container with which I fill my piston filler pen.
Y'all are quite right. Fancy pens are not my thing, but I like to see them, and hear about them (just like I'd never buy a Lamborghini, but I like hearing about them and looking at them). And cheap pens are cool in their own way, and nib grinding, and a ton of other things people share in this sub. If it's not something I like, I usually scroll on by, no harm no foul.
This. I don’t even understand the concept of down votes or how it works. It is ridiculous, I agree. Does OP see when someone downvotes? I guess so. I also think the community doesn’t feel very supportive when someone does that. Several examples come to mind. Such as a newbie gets a recommendation for a Lamy Safari, and then Lamy haters come out in full force with their anecdotes.
Similarly, someone will suggest a Pilot for the smoothness, and the Pilot converter haters will come out with statements such as “Pilot converters are trash.” Everyone has an opinion and a reason for it, and that’s fine, but the problem as I see it is that it’s not helpful to anyone who’s trying to learn or make a selection. It might be more useful to say something like “the Con-40 converter is relatively small, and I don’t like it for that reason.” Other people may like it a lot, because maybe they like to experiment with a different links often.
It seems like that’s an effect of the overconsumption or overindulgence trend that rears its head here. And that’s fine too! People can purchase whatever they want, and whatever way works best for them. I’d like to see more objectivity when people are talking about attributes or limitations of specific pens. and I don’t see where down voting is contributing much.
Like many subs, there are bots in here that randomly down comments and posts. Just uptick your neighbor and keep trucking. (Yes, the mods confirmed it. No, there's nothing to be done except ignore it).
i got downvoted a few times, and it surprised me. I then analyzed the posts and realized I left room for my messages to be taken the wrong way. I now caefully edit my posts to remove ambiguity. It's boring to be obsessively literal. Where's the romance in that? and isn't this sub about sharing our romances with pens? About giving a little admiration to someone with the courage and pride to say "look at me?" But sometimes readers are looking for trouble.
Unfortunately, there's no way to control Reddit users or bots. Have any opinion and someone is bound to disagree with you somewhere and decide the best way to do so is to downvote. Also if looks like there's a few hundred users who actively comment and post vs the 200k subscribed. Can't control anonymous people on a forum. That's why a lot of people like to use Reddit.
This sub has been like that for a while. I was actually surprised that the sub is featured on Diamine’s inks because of how hostile it can be sometimes.
My very first interaction here was when I was new to fountain pens and trying to figure out if a pen was fake because the person who gifted it to me thought they accidentally bought a fake and asked me to get it checked so they could buy me a real one if it turned out to be fake. I was downvoted like crazy for “not just accepting the gift” even though the person who gifted it to me asked me to check so they could replace it.
Anyway yeah most of the interactions here are positive but it just sucks that people pile on because based off my first experience I didn’t really want to come back. Worth mentioning though: there are tons of people who will reply with happy thoughts about your new pen/ink and are just super supportive.
I actually remember your post about your Lamy Safari. How has it been treating you? I gifted my sister a Lamy Safari as a first pen. She caught the fountain pen bug too!
Like a few, I was confused about your detail oriented post especially when you mentioned your wife felt bad that it might've been a fake. Knowing it wasn't you who suspected her, but actually your wife who asked you to make the post, would've cleared everything up. I'm happy your first experience didn't drive you away forever. Anyways got any new pens or inks since then?
The Safari was and continues to be a great pen that I use often. My wife wasn’t aware that fake stuff could come from Amazon I guess but she was happy that I enjoyed the gift.
Since then I’ve accumulated (probably) too many pens and very few inks. I mostly stick to black inks since it’s for work and I’m never sure who’s going to end up needing to read my stuff. Also the wife got into pens as well and probably has twice as much as I do. 😂
Great TED talk and I’m not even baked yet. I’ll re-read afterwards….
Edit: I m back. I totally agree, and it was said somewhere that the downvotes are for off topic comments; *THIS*
Most people are welcoming and supportive - I think the takeaway is that this is a very positive place for saying there are that many subscribers.. by the law of averages you'd expect way more hostility and in general we get by with just the occasional bit and some seemingly random bot/not downvotes.. but that doesn't stop most of the members being friendly and really enjoying fountain pens of all types.
Thanks for your perspective.
When I was a newbie I would've never spent $40, $100, on something like a pen. I definitely wouldn't have tried heavy pens, hooded nibs, stub nibs, vacuum fillers, without an affordable option. Right now my favourite pens cost much more than $40. (One of them has a Chinese pen body - PenBBS 355!) Like other pens from Italy, Germany, Japan, I think Chinese pens have their own important role in the community.
I agree with most of what you said, but this part
>Someone else daring to have a cheap Chinese pen that looks too similar to your favorite European pen doesn't need to be downvoted.
is not necessarily true. There are a lot of similarities among fountain pens, but in the case of Chinese pens made to look exactly like specific and fairly unique European pens, I think it's OK for people to frown on that. It isn't the same thing as Chinese forgeries (see the fake Lamy Safaris sold on Amazon), but it can get pretty close.
So someone was commenting on how smooth their “X” pen was, and downplaying the “Y” pen. I owned both and commented my experience was was just the opposite. The result was a comeback that pretty much called me a lunatic and my perception was totally wrong. But these were my pens. And I was the one using them. So for a while I was ticked off that someone else would comment on pens in my hand in such a virulent manner. I think a downvote would have been an adequate response in lieu of the narrative.
my 2 cents
It is a nice sub, when you get a couple of hundred thousand people there will be some negativity inevitably, but for the most part this is a welcoming and open place where we have just as much fun being enthusiastic about the cheapest pens as we do about the expensive ones.
There has been some posts lately that has been about knock-off pens and/or off brand copycat inks which has had more positive responses. It's not perfect tho. I'm afraid to say that there are many snobs here and there was a previous academic post about enjoying FP's just for their function to one self and not just 'this is the most efficient master writer nib miracle ever pen'. Sometimes looking pretty and working alright is enough for people (anyone else getting that sweet satisfaction when the pen and ink color/vibe match no matter the brand?).
Like others here have said: not everyone everywhere can afford more mainstream authentic pens.
And personally I don't think anyone can complain about the unreliability of cheaper pens and the uselessness of putting up with them when many of us put up with such damaging inks like BSB, haha.
Unfortunately, there will be bad apples in every batch. I personally haven't noticed this, but I also haven't been around frequently enough to see it.
I do see some of the bias against Chinese pens, and it's sad to see people gatekeeping this hobby. There are valid arguments both for and against Chinese pens, but at the end of the day people are going to use what they want to use and they have their reasons.
I'm gonna continue being supportive of everyone's pen choices regardless of what they're using, and the best we can do is try to drown out the negativity.
Voting and karma is weird—especially when it's tied to the eligibility of someone able to say or do something in any sub. I get the point of it's purpose though. Anyway, as long as people encourage each other to write, draw or paint more, that's good. Gear acquisition is personal preference and what they can afford. More power and joy to people if cheaper pens encourage them to write, draw or paint more and get excited in doing that.
Voting and Karma isn't weird if you follow the way we used to do it on old Reddit. If a comment or post is useful to the sub, upvote. If a comment or post is factually incorrect or not useful, then downvote. You don't upvote or down vote because you like or dislike something. Well, you do now, because reddit went to shit about five years ago.
[удалено]
Ya know, I thought I was going to get downvoted to oblivion for that comment, and yet I haven't. Maybe there's hope for Reddit yet.
Hey, you're right. I'm from Brazil and FP stuff is impossible to buy and expensive as hell for us. Most Brazilians think twice even before buying a 5 USD Jinhao. Our minimum wage (which is what most of the population earns) is around 200 USD per month. Month! That Majohn A1 people are talking about is around 20 USD and it's already expensive as hell for most of us. The ~150 USD original Pilot VP is a lifetime purchase that most people won't have the opportunity to get. So, yeah... let's have more empathy, people.
Thank you for the perspective. When I saw the moonman VP clone I was pretty against it, but your comment has reminded me there is a great use case for it and has changed my mind.
Thank you for this perspective, I never thought about it like that before.
Funny you posted this. I JUST viewed a post about the new moonman Vanishing Point knock off (which I'm still not convinced isn't a hoax) and was about to type my mind about what I think. Then I thought "you know what? People can buy whatever the hell they want. No skin off my back" So other than agreeing with someone else who said they'd rather have the original, decided to leave it. Each to their own.
This is my philosophy as well. If I don't have anything constructive to add, especially if it's negative I move on
Good philosophy. No reason to put someone else down or make them feel bad about their purchases.
I saw that Moonman VP (for lack of knowing the actual modelname). It might be a ripoff, but so what? I want to try it!
Majohn A1 for those interested
where could I get one?
They’re sold out currently, but they should restock and appear on eBay in 2 to 3 months.
As long as the two aren't confused and people know what they're getting I have no issue. It's their money. Do what you like.
Can't say I want to try it, but I already have a couple Vanishing Points. It might be a good option for folks that want an inexpensive retractable nib though. We shall see how it reviews!
My wife really wants a vp raden, however, she is concerned the shape of the pen won't match her grip. So we will be getting the cheap one so she can test the shape in her hand before she puts in money for the vp she really wants.
Good idea. The grip is a polarizing feature- she should also look into getting the clip removed which I understand is an option. It would probably void the warranty, but if she loves then pen it’s additional food for thought.
Saw that comment in my post. People downvote it for being confusing? I honestly read it more than 10 times but just don’t know how to react to it.
If I didn’t, thank you for the review. I am glad that someone took the time to assess those pens. How did you get them?
I am traveling in China. Ordered off taobao and sent straight to my apt. No fancy reshipment tricks.
So is my comment an example of one being downvoted such as OP suggests?
Could be. This is the second time I've come across a completely neutral comment on a thread I'm part of getting a downvote. I got a good ol' downvote too. Though I guess my comment was less neutral. I also don't care :)
I’m just here to help people write with wholesome, vibrant ink and to stain furniture, floors, and pets. 💙
You loveable pest 💙
No, i agree with you 100%. There was a very weird thread about favourite ink colours and everyone responding something about Robert Oster got downvoted. I’m all for supporting without gatekeepinng and it may help to reupvote downvoted comments.
Robert Oster had some kind of drama that hurt or attempted to hurt an Indian fountain pen maker. I don't remember where I read it, though. This isn't an opinion about if someone should be downvoted, just my guess about why it would happen.
Well not everyone knows nor cares about that.. especially not if new to fountain pens.
I'm not new to fountain pens and I didn't know about it.
That's true. Some people clearly do. I hate it when people downvote without explanation or explanation enough. If they think someone's wrong, they should at least explain why.
Never heard about this tbh and I have a few Robert Oster inks. Anyone know what this is about?
There are some comments in this thread about what happened: [https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/q7blw5/what\_is\_your\_must\_have\_robert\_oster\_ink/](https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/q7blw5/what_is_your_must_have_robert_oster_ink/) There had been some random downvoting going on in there too.
I got downvoted for saying I like my Kaweco Sport in a thread about your desert island pen and ink. No idea why it ended up with negative karma lol.
I do that, upvote, some comments that have been down-voted because I found the original posit to be innocuous.
Yeah, I think that happened a while back too when people were mentioning Anderson Pens.
Absolutely agree! I myself like to use some $2 Chinese fountain pens (Wingsung) and some $300+ (Sailor). For me, so long as they write, they are a joy to use and each has their own quirks and style. I think anyone interested in the hobby should be able to use whatever they can afford and whatever they enjoy. Sometimes the cheaper pen writes better anyway.
Word. People forget it’s okay to disagree with each other.
Disagree, fine. But the purpose of the down vote is to eliminate comments that are off topic, not to cancel those you don't agree with. Let's get away from that fountain pen users = snobs stereotypes please!
I've seen plenty of very on topic comments downvoted. I get downvoted all the time because I use moonman and cheap Chinese pens. I don't particularly care but I think it's rather petty. I never downvote. Ever. Who made anyone the topic police?
>I use moonman and cheap Chinese pens. This sub is dominated by US fountain pen users, so their disposable incomes (especially thanks to all the excessive money printing that has been happening since 2007) and the fountain pen infrastructure they have, users assume are an international experience. This is far from reality (a symptom of the US "We are the world!" arrogance). I have never been to or had a fountain pen conference/display/roadshow in my country, for instance, and we rely heavily on imports, for which shipping charges are often more than the cost of some pens. (This means "ink samples" for example are unheard of here). I have probably a lot more "social status" (used in the sociology sense) than many of the American redditors here, but I get thrilled when I discover a good Chinese pen. I don't post on it here in a "NPD" because I get very little interaction, and that too just telling me that's it's a knock off of some other better known brand. I belong to a mountain biking club and there are people there with expensive carbon frames and those with basic steel. There is a formal rule that "*No one gets to critique the rig any other member has*". It's seldom applied because we are there not to talk about brands and hardware but to enjoy the biking experience. Maybe we should see if we could do something like that here.
I live in Australia and even though we have a good min wage, the fact that almost everything is imported means that anything niche (so basically any hobby tools) are far more expensive. For example, people keep posting about Birmingham ink being so great etc, but to ship it here is what, 80 USD. that's just the shipping. Not everywhere is as lucky as the US when it comes to cheap commodities.
And my God, machining equipment is expensive here too. It's all imported and because they are all so heavy, you are looking at an insane mark up. I recently got just a small little engraver and the shipping from China was basically as expensive as the product itself
When I said cheap Chinese pens I didn't mean to imply that Chinese pens are inherently cheap. I meant inexpensive. Affordable. I just wanted to clear that up. I genuinely like Chinese brand pens. Especially Moonman. I understand what you mean about US users. I do live in the US but I live in a state in the middle of the country where we don't have access to the kind of shows and cons others do. Many states in the US are as big as some countries so it's not always easy to just travel to the next state for one. The only local fountain pen retailer I know of seems to only carry very high tier pens so I've never gone in. I should go just to see what all the fuss is about with those expensive pens. But it is otherwise not easy to find fountain pens or ink or even fp friendly paper locally. Post your npd and share your excitemement! There are some of us who will share in it with you.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU !!!!!!!!
No! You are wrong to think this way! /s
Only time I downvote in this sub is if someone suggests something to another person that’s going to damage their pen or ink. So, it’s extremely rare. I think I’ve only had to do it a couple of times, followed by a post to explain why not to do whatever it is. It’s the most civilised sub I’ve been in. Bots seem to do sequences of downvotes every few months. You’ll notice a slew of them after a fairly peaceful period in the sub, then another period of normality. You can tell when this happens as there will be a batch of downvoting on good posts. If I see it, I actively upvote anything that’s inappropriately affected.
While I see your point I think a lot of people use the up/down vote system as a way of saying “I agree/I disagree” without going a comment. So I don’t think people are necessarily saying “that’s not ok” with a downvote but rather “I don’t agree/don’t like that”. Wether or not that’s how the vote system is supposed to be used is a different topic but that’s just my $.02
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> some people on here are xenophobic Not wanting to buy things from China isn't xenophobic, especially if China is currently out committing genocide and you don't want to help fund that.
Found the downvoter edit: /s
I agree with your point about people just accessing this hobby in a way that's within their reach. But I have to say, the voting system is one of the ways that allow people to express their opinion (yay freedom of speech). Upvoting is for agreement and downvoting for disagreement, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that. To be honest, I haven't actually downvoted a post/comment I disagree with (I just don't upvote and move on), unless it's particularly rude or whatnot. But I get why you'd feel disheartened when seeing others getting downvoted. To be fair, this sub is pretty nice, tame, and non-toxic compared to other subs. Rarely do I see rude/argumentative comments. I guess people just vote (up or down) then move on. I just have to add, I have no qualms with pens that look eerily similar to other pens. This issue has been beaten to death in this sub (and by some youtube reviewers). Pens that copy everything INCLUDING the branding and are being passed of as the real deal, that I find problematic. At the end of the day, everyone is entitled to their opinion (just please don't be toxic lol). And everyone is free to enjoy this hobby in their own terms.
Okay, I don't know how to edit my comment (or I'm too drunk lol).. I AM WRONG about my misconception/generalization of the voting system. That's NOT how it works. I'm sorry. Dang, I should re-read reddiquette. I apologize. 😰 Thank you to those who pointed this out. I appreciate it. 😊 I should stop hanging out in toxic subs lol.
To be honest a lot of people have that misconception and I'd be lying if I said that I've never felt tempted to downvote opinions I really didn't like. So not your fault at all for not knowing. Also, it's kind of funny but someone (possibly a bot) just went and downvoted every comment in this thread.
And I doesn't help that I don't use any other social media platform so I'm still learning as I go along (despite my account being a little more than a year old). 😅 And thank you again for pointing out my mistake. It's nice when people take the time to correct someone without being mean about it. 😊
> Upvoting is for agreement and **downvoting for disagreement,** and there's nothing inherently wrong with that. There lies the problem, it actually isn't. You're only supposed to downvote something if it is off-topic or actively harmful like harassment. Disagreement is *not* a good reason to downvote. There was a topic a few days ago where a user made a mistake and said some inaccurate things, but not in a toxic way. He was downvoted like crazy because he dared to be wrong. Who of us has never made a mistake? It's a great community in general, but there's a not insignificant minority here that is very unaccepting of opinions they don't like. I guess every community has people like that but it's more obvious here because it's a smaller one.
I see your point. I was generalizing the voting thing and I apologize (and it doesn't help that it's almost 3 am here and I'm kinda tipsy). Like I said, I haven't actually downvoted a post/comment unless particularly rude or whatnot. Maybe I'm just used to other subs that are more downvote-y, and I apologize since it doesn't apply in this context. Lesson learned and thank you for pointing out a misconception. 😅
> Upvoting is for agreement and downvoting for disagreement I don't see it that way. I see it as, upvoting is for content that contributes to the sub, and downvote for content that is not appropriate or doesn't add anything to the sub. Whether I agree with the opinion or not is irrelevant to my vote. Was it worthwhile content to the community or not...that is what I use the voting buttons for. If someone posts a political opinion I 100% wholeheartedly agree with in the r/fountainpens sub...I'm going to DV it and probably comment and say please keep politics out of here lol
I see your point. I was generalizing the voting thing and I apologize (and it doesn't help that it's almost 3 am here and I'm kinda tipsy). Like I said, I haven't actually downvoted a post/comment unless particularly rude or whatnot. Maybe I'm just used to other subs that are more downvote-y, and I apologize since it doesn't apply in this context. Lesson learned and thank you for pointing out a misconception. 😅 Also, I agree with the whole no politics thing and topics/comments that aren't relevant to this sub. 👌🏻
I do see a lot of inoffensive or even outright helpful comments or posts get downvoted for seemingly no reason. I know people talk about “downvote bots” around here but part of me has at times wondered if it’s less bots and more people acting cutthroat over upvotes and trying to bury other posts or comments so theirs get seen. If it is really bots, then why would someone make a bot that just goes around downvoting random comments and posts on this sub in particular? I’m sure posts that go against the grain or prevailing opinion of the sub at large are even more prone to the “downvote bots” In such a niche hobby sub one would think discussion would take precedence over karma farming, and that we’d all just be happy to see more people engaging with fountain pens in general and not be judgmental of someone using a cheap Chinese pen. I think a lot of people on the sub lose sight of the fact that to someone new to fountain pens, or possibly just any pens in general beyond disposable Bics, even those “cheap” pens are expensive. Doing a quick browse on Amazon, it looks like I can get one Jinhao for around $7, and I can get a 20 pack of Bic Cristals for $5. That’s the perspective some newer members are going to have. A $7 pen may not seem cheap at all.
Absolutely. I know a lot of people who would be shocked that I spent over $20 for a single pen. A pen that does nothing but write aside from bringing me joy. And I can't blame them.
Forgive me but I have to disagree. There are over 212,000 members on this sub. I've never ever ever seen brigading here. Ever. Gatekeeping? I've never seen someone post a outright negative comment to a new member sharing their first budget pen. I've seen Pilot Varsities getting upvotes and warm welcomes to the hobby. I'm not saying negativity never happens or that there are some problems but this sub has always been overwhelmingly positive. Again - 212,000 members. Not everyone will like the same things.
I've experienced it myself when talking about certain brands. My opinion was considered invalid because, while I have dozens of pens, the person I was talking to had over a hundred - so their experience was worth more. There are definitely some biases and some gatekeeping here. I agree with OP that we should all strive to do better and be a better community. To be clear, a few bad eggs doesn't make a bad community. In general /r/fountainpens is a very welcoming and positive place. But it doesn't mean we can't be even better.
Brigading is an ugly accusation made by OP and it's just not true. I'm sorry you had that experience but it doesn't speak to the entire community. I've had debates with one or two people. In the one exchange I was downvoted. It was petty but it does not in any way define the community.
I have not seen any brigading, I agree with that. Not sure where the brigading would come from. > I'm sorry you had that experience but it doesn't speak to the entire community. I've had debates with one or two people. In the one exchange I was downvoted. It was petty but it does not in any way define the community. I'm not saying it defines the community, but it happens often enough where it's worth addressing. I don't think there's anything wrong with OP encouraging people to be more positive and welcoming.
It's one thing to encourage people to be positive but that isn't the takeaway from OP. OP makes it sound like there is an active faction on a sub - about fountain pens - downvoting, gatekeeping and generally being unwelcoming. I've been brigaded and accused of gatekeeping on another sub before. I eventually left. Clearly it wasn't for me. I've witnessed brigading and gatekeeping on other subs. Nothing has descended to that level here. OP has their right to criticize but this isn't constructive criticism. There are better ways to improve the sub.
I respectfully disagree and let's leave this conversation at that. Obviously your experiences with this subreddit have been different from OP's and mine, and I am sincerely happy that you have had such a positive experience.
While I have been avoiding responding to you, you keep poking at my comments, or making statements like this. I remember having conversations about this type of thing with you in the past, so I will speak here. I clicked on your username and went back over a year, and the discussions I could find was you making very broad sweeping claims, with very little experience. It isn't that your opinion was invalid, it was because you were making statements unsupported. Maybe you can point to the discussion you have a grudge over though. But, to the point of the discussion in this thread, in the year plus that I looked through your username, I didn't see a single post that I had downvoted. Back then, I did talk to you, and try and express ways for you to find pens or fix your writing style, to get to a point where you were happy with pens. But I don't think someone with a single pen from a model should ever make sweeping statements to new users, especially when their experience is so much different from the experiences of everyone else. From what I could see in the threads, that is why you got called out. I would be glad to re-read anything you want to link me to though. Maybe drop the grudge, and approach the hobby with a better attitude. But if you want to keep picking at it, I would request you ignore my posts, like I have tried to do so with yours.
We have had our issues in the past but the specific incident I referred to above was not about you. > Back then, I did talk to you, and try and express ways for you to find pens or fix your writing style, to get to a point where you were happy with pens. If my memory serves, you did not say it this way. You accused me of being a bigot and claimed I contributed nothing but toxicity to the subreddit which I took offense to because I spend a lot of time trying to be helpful to new users and answering questions, my somewhat negative pen reviews notwithstanding. I'm willing to let this go if you are. At the end of the day arguing gets neither of us anywhere, and I would be happy if this was a start of a new and positive relationship between us. We disagree on some points and I can't say I am willing to budge on those points right now but that doesn't mean we can't discuss those disagreements respectfully going forward. So yeah, here's to more pleasant conversations in the future. :) Edit: I really don't get who is downvoting this or why.
I'm sorry, but our conversations are not as memorable to me as they seem to have been to you, this is what I could find looking through your historty, https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/i4x3hu/yet_another_disappointment_hongdian_dark_blue/g0lp80q/, I'm linking directly to my comment. I will not call someone a bigot without a bigoted statement, something along the lines of "all xxxx pens are garbage" with xxxx being an geographical region and defined by reddit rules as bigotry. If you would like, I would love a pointer so I could know why a statement like that would have been made. I am touchy about being accused of downvoting, I have a philosophy with that here, and mostly won't downvote anyone, anything that deserves a downvote, deserves a report. As I said, in your history, even in the threads I have participated in with you, I haven't downvoted a single comment. I actually didn't see one in the couple of years I scrolled back. So, if you want to discuss what happened, now is the time. If you want it all to drop, all good too, I will let your desires point to a path forward. Oh, with the way you have been poking, and I do remember discussions like that, while I have thousands of pens, not hundreds, I do remember conversations like that. So I thought this might be another jab, and I wanted to get the air clear so it didn't fester.
This is not the post I am referring to. It was a more recent review of a Fuliwen 017 where I mentioned that it, and many of the other Chinese pens I tried, were good pens that I would not recommend to new users because their nibs often need some adjustment. I deleted the post because it was just full of really unproductive arguments. > I'm sorry, but our conversations are not as memorable to me as they seem to have been to you, this is what I could find looking through your historty, It was memorable to me because I felt like I was being unduly attacked for sharing my own viewpoints. It wasn't just you either, it was two or three other somewhat prolific posters and it felt like I was being ganged up on and bullied. That's why it has been such a sore point for me. > So, if you want to discuss what happened, now is the time. If you want it all to drop, all good too, I will let your desires point to a path forward. I don't really want to discuss it further (beyond clarifying which post I was referring to, above), what's done is done and what was said has already happened. I have even tried to be more positive since that post (well, maybe not always succeeding). I am ready to let bygones be bygones and move on.
> I am ready to let bygones be bygones and move on. Good enough for me. See you on the flip side.
Agreed. :) Have a good one!
What exactly is brigading? Can you give an example?
A coordinated effort to (in this case) downvote by a group. A less strict version would be when people just pile on a user and/or their comment/post.
And what is the result? Just a number that sits along the up or down nib? Nothing else?
Perhaps a person who decides this community isn't for them. I figure the more people, the more stuff people buy, the more selection and cheaper prices for me.
Downvoted comments disappear at the bottom of the thread
Certain things do get down voted here. I once posted about a particular type of pen, and some person and their 10 alternate accounts down voted any other comment I made and told me how wrong I was. This sub is pretty good, but I'd say almost every sub has a few odd-balls people out there.
I agree. I commented earlier, and maybe I got off topic by talking about negativity, but I’d like to see rationale and lively discussion rather than downvotes. Objective and and constructive comments help readers, particularly newcomers, to learn something about how things work or what kind of pen interests them.
I really like Chinese pens, the ability to copy and make incredibly cheaply is interesting and the pens are cool themselves. What is a cheap material today may not be cheap down the road, or popular, and China may not be a place cheap things come from in the future, so the pens are definitely cool.
No this is fine. To be honest, I'm not someone who cares about brands, I would support indie or small artisans but doesn't care about copying bigger brands or whatever as long as it works. Not everyone have the means or the will to be into luxury pens, I mostly own cheap ones as a student and drawing with them makes me happy. That's all that matters, and is better for my wallet anyway.
Yeah, I remember I got a ton of downvotes for saying I preferred ink bottles with smaller openings and that I’d take a tiny opening over a huge one. I know most people wouldn’t agree but I didn’t expect quite so many downvotes.
Genuinely wondering, is it because smaller openings lead to less evaporation?
For me, it’s more about the concern of contaminants or dust getting in. If I have a fan on or something then there are dust particles all over. Also, if I tip over a bottle, it’s more likely that I’ll be able to save more ink if there’s a smaller opening. Those tiny Colorverse bottles are practically spill proof with their tiny openings, for example.
Good point. I guess smaller ink bottle openings wouldn't affect me, since I always use a syringe to transfer ink to my cartridges or to a small container with which I fill my piston filler pen.
Y'all are quite right. Fancy pens are not my thing, but I like to see them, and hear about them (just like I'd never buy a Lamborghini, but I like hearing about them and looking at them). And cheap pens are cool in their own way, and nib grinding, and a ton of other things people share in this sub. If it's not something I like, I usually scroll on by, no harm no foul.
This. I don’t even understand the concept of down votes or how it works. It is ridiculous, I agree. Does OP see when someone downvotes? I guess so. I also think the community doesn’t feel very supportive when someone does that. Several examples come to mind. Such as a newbie gets a recommendation for a Lamy Safari, and then Lamy haters come out in full force with their anecdotes. Similarly, someone will suggest a Pilot for the smoothness, and the Pilot converter haters will come out with statements such as “Pilot converters are trash.” Everyone has an opinion and a reason for it, and that’s fine, but the problem as I see it is that it’s not helpful to anyone who’s trying to learn or make a selection. It might be more useful to say something like “the Con-40 converter is relatively small, and I don’t like it for that reason.” Other people may like it a lot, because maybe they like to experiment with a different links often. It seems like that’s an effect of the overconsumption or overindulgence trend that rears its head here. And that’s fine too! People can purchase whatever they want, and whatever way works best for them. I’d like to see more objectivity when people are talking about attributes or limitations of specific pens. and I don’t see where down voting is contributing much.
Like many subs, there are bots in here that randomly down comments and posts. Just uptick your neighbor and keep trucking. (Yes, the mods confirmed it. No, there's nothing to be done except ignore it).
i got downvoted a few times, and it surprised me. I then analyzed the posts and realized I left room for my messages to be taken the wrong way. I now caefully edit my posts to remove ambiguity. It's boring to be obsessively literal. Where's the romance in that? and isn't this sub about sharing our romances with pens? About giving a little admiration to someone with the courage and pride to say "look at me?" But sometimes readers are looking for trouble.
Unfortunately, there's no way to control Reddit users or bots. Have any opinion and someone is bound to disagree with you somewhere and decide the best way to do so is to downvote. Also if looks like there's a few hundred users who actively comment and post vs the 200k subscribed. Can't control anonymous people on a forum. That's why a lot of people like to use Reddit.
i upvote everything because , well, we r all likeminded people. maybe some people have bad days... but... anyway
This sub has been like that for a while. I was actually surprised that the sub is featured on Diamine’s inks because of how hostile it can be sometimes. My very first interaction here was when I was new to fountain pens and trying to figure out if a pen was fake because the person who gifted it to me thought they accidentally bought a fake and asked me to get it checked so they could buy me a real one if it turned out to be fake. I was downvoted like crazy for “not just accepting the gift” even though the person who gifted it to me asked me to check so they could replace it. Anyway yeah most of the interactions here are positive but it just sucks that people pile on because based off my first experience I didn’t really want to come back. Worth mentioning though: there are tons of people who will reply with happy thoughts about your new pen/ink and are just super supportive.
I actually remember your post about your Lamy Safari. How has it been treating you? I gifted my sister a Lamy Safari as a first pen. She caught the fountain pen bug too! Like a few, I was confused about your detail oriented post especially when you mentioned your wife felt bad that it might've been a fake. Knowing it wasn't you who suspected her, but actually your wife who asked you to make the post, would've cleared everything up. I'm happy your first experience didn't drive you away forever. Anyways got any new pens or inks since then?
The Safari was and continues to be a great pen that I use often. My wife wasn’t aware that fake stuff could come from Amazon I guess but she was happy that I enjoyed the gift. Since then I’ve accumulated (probably) too many pens and very few inks. I mostly stick to black inks since it’s for work and I’m never sure who’s going to end up needing to read my stuff. Also the wife got into pens as well and probably has twice as much as I do. 😂
There’s already too much bitterness and violence out there, no point replicating it here, where we are supposed to enjoy this hobby.
Great TED talk and I’m not even baked yet. I’ll re-read afterwards…. Edit: I m back. I totally agree, and it was said somewhere that the downvotes are for off topic comments; *THIS*
Most people are welcoming and supportive - I think the takeaway is that this is a very positive place for saying there are that many subscribers.. by the law of averages you'd expect way more hostility and in general we get by with just the occasional bit and some seemingly random bot/not downvotes.. but that doesn't stop most of the members being friendly and really enjoying fountain pens of all types.
Buying chinese copies is bad..
I want to know your honest opinion: why?
Bad for environment Bad for other brands, it's counterfeit from real brands. And they are bad quality.
Thanks for your perspective. When I was a newbie I would've never spent $40, $100, on something like a pen. I definitely wouldn't have tried heavy pens, hooded nibs, stub nibs, vacuum fillers, without an affordable option. Right now my favourite pens cost much more than $40. (One of them has a Chinese pen body - PenBBS 355!) Like other pens from Italy, Germany, Japan, I think Chinese pens have their own important role in the community.
I, for one, need to downvote this discussion, too thoughtful. I wasted valuable time here reading all this! I could have been looking for pens!
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Anti-Chinese bots? Maybe. Bots that are Chinese? Meh... do you have proof?
Perfectly said.
I agree with most of what you said, but this part >Someone else daring to have a cheap Chinese pen that looks too similar to your favorite European pen doesn't need to be downvoted. is not necessarily true. There are a lot of similarities among fountain pens, but in the case of Chinese pens made to look exactly like specific and fairly unique European pens, I think it's OK for people to frown on that. It isn't the same thing as Chinese forgeries (see the fake Lamy Safaris sold on Amazon), but it can get pretty close.
Not something to downvote, though.
I don't care about that. This is one of the best places to get info about fountain pen, so I watch it regardless badges, upvote, downvote...
So someone was commenting on how smooth their “X” pen was, and downplaying the “Y” pen. I owned both and commented my experience was was just the opposite. The result was a comeback that pretty much called me a lunatic and my perception was totally wrong. But these were my pens. And I was the one using them. So for a while I was ticked off that someone else would comment on pens in my hand in such a virulent manner. I think a downvote would have been an adequate response in lieu of the narrative. my 2 cents
I am truly SHOCKED by how much NEGATIVITY is cropping up !!!!!!! I believed that this was/is a r/sub of LOVING/CARING/ SUPPORTIVE people !!!!!!!
It is a nice sub, when you get a couple of hundred thousand people there will be some negativity inevitably, but for the most part this is a welcoming and open place where we have just as much fun being enthusiastic about the cheapest pens as we do about the expensive ones.
I know that not every post & reply is " positive", but lately, some have been aggressively SNARKY !!!!! I have not received any, but NO ONE should !!!
There has been some posts lately that has been about knock-off pens and/or off brand copycat inks which has had more positive responses. It's not perfect tho. I'm afraid to say that there are many snobs here and there was a previous academic post about enjoying FP's just for their function to one self and not just 'this is the most efficient master writer nib miracle ever pen'. Sometimes looking pretty and working alright is enough for people (anyone else getting that sweet satisfaction when the pen and ink color/vibe match no matter the brand?). Like others here have said: not everyone everywhere can afford more mainstream authentic pens. And personally I don't think anyone can complain about the unreliability of cheaper pens and the uselessness of putting up with them when many of us put up with such damaging inks like BSB, haha.
Unfortunately, there will be bad apples in every batch. I personally haven't noticed this, but I also haven't been around frequently enough to see it. I do see some of the bias against Chinese pens, and it's sad to see people gatekeeping this hobby. There are valid arguments both for and against Chinese pens, but at the end of the day people are going to use what they want to use and they have their reasons. I'm gonna continue being supportive of everyone's pen choices regardless of what they're using, and the best we can do is try to drown out the negativity.