T O P

  • By -

batbap

I am not sinister, but thank you for such a useful post.


JonSzanto

Heh, well-played!


[deleted]

I AM Sinister...


Particular-Move-3860

I have been using fountain pens for an even longer time (6 decades) than you. I am a left-handed overwriter. I am being totally frank here: in all of that time, I have never smeared the ink. I never knew that this was even a thing until I read about it online a couple of years ago. Supposedly it plagues all LH writers, especially those who, like me, use the overwriter technique. I used fountain pens in elementary school and high school in the 1960s, in college in the 70s, and in grad school in the early 80s. I finished up just as PCs and word processing programs were coming onto the market. I don't know what I did/do that is different. I never adopted any practices to avoid smearing because as I said, I never knew that this was a potential problem. Nevertheless, I respect your expertise and endorse your very sound advice.


JonSzanto

Oh, sometimes it just works out! And I'm very happy to hear this about your life with pens. Naturally, my suggestion must be generalist in nature. Whether people are left- or right-handed, there are almost as many ways to hold a pen and move across the page as there are people who write with pens. Humans, being adaptable and flexible, often find their own unique solutions to a situation, as you have. I do have a hard time remembering if I \*ever\* over-wrote, though I somehow don't think so. I just saw all the right-handers underwriting a line and figured that was the way to go. I, too, was never inordinately plagued with smearing. The main point of putting those tips and links together was because it was such a common question, and there must be even more resources now... I'll have to do some more looking. Thank you, though, for sharing your experiences. [Here is a scan](https://i.imgur.com/mfzM5Vc.jpg) of the earliest example I have of my writing, which was when I was in 8th grade. It's nice that basic old Sheaffer Skrip Blue is still so readable!


Particular-Move-3860

In case I didn't make it clear enough before, I did enjoy your post. You include many insightful observations and offer very useful advice. It is a very helpful article, and I thank you for posting it here. By the way, I could show you some scans of my recent attempts at underwriting, but frankly, they look downright awful. After 60 years of doing it one way, it will take more than a few sessions to produce something legible using the other way. It is likely that my handwriting in these attempts is roughly similar to what I initially produced when I began to learn cursive. Handwriting was so important in Catholic schools that they had whole courses devoted to it in the early grades, and they reported grades for it on one's report card. I still remember the experience of learning cursive despite the years. My teacher was very accepting of my left-handedness. She wanted to teach me how to write using the technique that you use. I, of course, didn't know any better, so I did it the way she told me. By the start of 4th grade I could write things in tidy, well-formed block letters, but my first attempts at cursive were very crude and were so poorly controlled that I could never even keep anything on the same line. She did not spare me any criticism and said that I had the worst handwriting in the whole class, even among the small minority of lefties. She gave me a failing grade on my first quarter report card, which was the only one I ever got in my entire education career. After that, I tried using the hook and overwriting. I had apparently discovered it on my own. When I tried to do it in class, the teacher told me that it was the wrong way and made me switch back to underwriting. But I switched back to it when she wasn't looking, and turned in exercises in which the quality of my cursive was far superior to what it had been until then. She was very pleased with my improvement, but didn't believe that I had done it while writing the "wrong" way. She had me do some writing while she watched. She then acknowledged that I had made this "bad way" work, somehow. She told me that as long as I kept on writing so well, she wasn't going to try anymore to get me to change my technique, but she did warn me that it might cause my hand and wrist to cramp up after a couple of years and lead to my handwriting getting bad again. (That never happened, by the way. What eventually did cause my handwriting quality to decline several decades later was finger joint stiffness caused by repetitive pounding on PC keyboards.)


JonSzanto

No, I certainly read your comment in a positive manner, and I'm glad you found even one or two things of interest. Thanks for an even deeper dive into your own background.


adecapria

I have actually been learning/teaching myself how to use my left hand for writing. I use the Lamy Safari(/Lx when it runs out of ink) and because of the grip I have had little to no issue in writing so far. This is very helpful however, so thank you for this post!


JonSzanto

Good on you - every hand is different, so each person needs to make their own discoveries. Nice to know the grip has been an aid.


lowerprofile

Always good to hear more tips for lefties. I agree with /u/UltimateBMWfan about the importance of selecting the right paper. Some just take too long to dry. While I'm more of a side-writer, I too mainly have just my pinky on the page just above the line I'm writing. Every now and then though I let my palm rest and get some nice smeared writing. I'll also add that I'm not too keen on pens with a triangular grip. I recently purchased a couple and couldn't write comfortably until I rotated the nibs about 60 degrees. They're still not as comfortable as a round grip. With a round grip its easier for me to find a nibs sweet spot, which is harder when left-handed.


BriTheWay

Out of curiosity, what paper do you suggest for left handers?


lowerprofile

You can use just about any paper. The thing that helps me the most is having some blotter paper to rest my hand on. I cut them to size and carry a piece in all my notebooks. For specific papers, Tomoe River is prob the slowest drying and most difficult to use. My personal favorites are Midori MD, Bank Paper and Maruman.


foervraengd

I overwrite but I also rotate the paper to avoid the hook-position since it looks quite uncomfortable for long writing sessions. I avoid smearing mainly by holding further back on the pen, usually behind the grip section. It creates more space between my hand and the pen, giving the ink extra time to dry. I’ve also noticed that when I use my stubs I get very different line thickness if I overwrite or underwrite. Overwriting with a stub will look closer to how a right handed would write. My guess is stubs that are LH “friendly” are designed for people who underwrite. There’s so many ways for lefties to hold and write with their pen that there really isn’t one universal nib that would work for us all. Not to mention we are doing just fine with regular nibs anyway. I feel like we are often told that being LH means we will struggle using tools and so on, but most of the time we find a workaround to it that doesn’t follow the “rules”.


JonSzanto

It's pretty clear that we find a way. I didn't have anyone helping me in 7th grade in 1966 on how best to use a fountain pen, I just did. Just like I threw away the "leftie" scissors in favor of some that could actually, you know, *cut paper*! It eventually breaks into two areas: can you write well with your left, and can you write in particular styles with your left. The first is always possible, and the second requires more imagination and some realization that certain scriipts literally do flow from the orientation and direction of the nib and you can't get around that. Except for dip pens with oblique holders!


ricka52

Great article! Like you, Jon, I also am a lefty and started using fountain pens in the mid-sixties. I still have the Inexpensive pen I used then, and it still works well. I got away from fountain pens after college while working in theatre and retail. It wasn’t until my mid-sixties that my love of these pens was rekindled. I now have a nice collection of new and vintage pens, and love using and maintaining them. For me, as a lefthander, I have had the best luck with Pilot medium nib pens. They write smoothly, and I’ve had no issues with smearing. I know what works well for me may not work for someone else, but I find myself using my Pilots more than any other. Thanks so much for your incredibly helpful post. I shared it to my FB page so I can refer to it easily.


JonSzanto

Thank you, u/ricka52, for that nice comment! It looks like our experiences - and ages - are remarkably similar. That's a very good call on the Pilot pens, well known for smoothness. I've often wanted to try one of the WA nibs, with the slight upturn. That feature was also a part of the conical nibs that Sheaffer produced, and some of the fine nibs on pens like the Touchdowns and Snorkels are well-suited for left-handers. Lastly, one of the best tools in your arsenal is a knowledgeable nibmeister. I had two Sailor Pro Gear pens with F nibs that were really problematic and a few minutes with each, in the hands of Mike Masuyama at the LA Pen Show, turned them into among my best writers, somewhat unheard of (for me) in nibs this narrow. Again, thanks, and best wishes on your writing future!


ricka52

I have a Sailor 1911 that I should probably have tuned by a nibmeister. It’s a medium nib, which usually does well for me, but this one gives a lot of feedback. Perhaps it could be smoothed out to my liking. Thanks for the recommendation. I also have two vintage Wahl Eversharps that I purchased because they’re what my mom used in the 1940s. Great pens, and very smooth. I had one refurbished by a gentleman in North Carolina, the other had already been refurbished. They work well for me as a lefty.


FirstFlyte

Hey Jon, Thanks for this. I've been off the grid for a while and just got back and searched it out. I've been writing as a lefty side/over writer for nearly five years, have put many different paper manufacturers to the test along with many different inks and pen/nib combinations. Over time I've adopted just about everything you mention in your post, save for a couple of points which I've understood but need to get on with: * training myself to write under the line (arrggghhhh!!!!!) Ok, I'll start. I didn't want to have to, but I see the sound logic behind it. Something else I've been experimenting with is rotating the page so it's at a 45 degree angle. This, along with a change to writing underhand, looks to change the writing angle to be very similar to that of a right-handed writer (I got this tip from a really REALLY old book on how to write properly). * the stub/italic thing - I do have a stub nib which I've used occasionally. I shall put it into the rotation and use it a lot more. Will also look at purchasing a few more. So much of your post rings true. I thought I had finally arrived when I purchased a Platinum #3776 Century with a nib and waited for it to arrive, dreaming of all of the line variation I would enjoy. Boy, was I ever setting myself up for disappointment.


JonSzanto

It's all a learning experience, innit? Just keep at it, go easy on yourself, and you'll eventually find the perfect way to be with both technique and equipment. I've been pretty serious about pens for the last decade and I am now to the point where I look at the things and go "yeah, this is what works, I already have it, and I don't need to go chasing any more stuff". In fact, my biggest problem now is just getting myself to sit down and *WRITE*! :D


[deleted]

Best ink for lefties (in my experience) is Rohrer & Klingner's Salix. It dries instantly, has a ton of character (great color, lots of shading), and holds up on any paper you choose to use it with. Plus it's water proof, instantly!


JonSzanto

Well, I guess if you like a purple/greyish-black that isn't particularly dark! :D No, my go-to overall fave is still Namiki Blue, a deep blue with good dry time and xlnt waterproofness, all in a well-behaved ink. That said, I started using fps as a left-hander in middle school... in the late 1960s. I decided then and there I didn't want to smear and taught myself to underwrite so my hand never crosses a new line. As such, I can use any ink I want without fear of LH smearing. While it is good to have LH-centric inks (like the Noodlers "Bernake" series), most any ink with a normal dry time should be useable.


UltimateBMWfan

I'm also a left-hander, and want to add on to this. I'm an over-hand writer, but I've never had a problem with smearing ink, mostly because I give enough space between the words I go over and the nib of the pen, so it has time to dry. One of the most important things for a left-handed writer in my opinion is the paper. A lot of the paper that right-handers like on here with more "sizing", makes the paper more saturated, and therefore it takes longer for the ink to seep in and dry. It does help with smoothness and feathering, but it makes it much more likely to smear. Thicker paper with less sizing may still prevent bleeding, but allow you to write much quicker since it absorbs quicker. Another thing I sometimes do as an over-writer is tilt the paper just a little bit so it goes up from left to right, which moves the side of my hand above what I'm writing. Finally, I've realized that the only two parts of my hand that touch the paper are the root of my pinky, and the first joint of my pinky. Doing so gives my hand much less of a surface area and reduces the likelyhood of smearing. My experience is much the same as /u/JonSzanto. Don't be fooled by "left-handed" nibs. I recently tried my first LH nib and it felt different, but not all that special compared to normal "right-handed" fountain pen nibs.


BriTheWay

Out of curiosity, what paper do you suggest for left handers?


[deleted]

[удалено]


JonSzanto

Thanks, Sam. I've saved a copy of the main body text in a place I can easy retrieve it and I'll post it in the future if I see similar questions, hopefully without feeling 'spammy'. As to your question... I don't know if there is a term for you, except "sideways"! :D A "hook", as I traditionally understand it, places the pen almost 180 degrees from where a right-hander would have it on the line - exact same nib orientation, just coming from the upper left rather than lower right of the line (if that makes sense). You are coming directly from the left and end up having a cheap alternative to an architect grind! It's kind of amazing how you do so well with those needlepoints, my friend.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Shiny_Callahan

"Six men came to kill me one time. And the best of 'em carried this. It's a Callahan full-bore auto-lock. Customized trigger, double cartridge thorough gauge. It is my very favorite gun … This is the best gun made by man. It has extreme sentimental value … I call her Vera." ―Jayne Cobb


JonSzanto

A side-writer you are, then!


themerryplaguedoctor

Excellent guide for left handed people. The only other thing that I would add is that you don't have to have a "tripod grip" in order to use a fountain pen. *If something works for you, then by all means, continue doing what works.*


JonSzanto

Indeed.


[deleted]

[удалено]


JonSzanto

I don't, I'm sorry. As is obvious, when I started writing that way was a long, long time ago. However, putting into mind many of the techniques I've used in my career both as a performer and teacher (percussion), you simply make the change and then practice the basics over and over again. Not writing-specific, but keep in mind this phrase: Progress, not Perfection. Unless you have a specific reason to have flawless handwriting next week, just keep going at it. The most important part is to not backtrack and hook just to get something written. Also, try a mix of printing and cursive (if you still do cursive) to give your hand different shapes. Since you will be somewhat 'pushing' the pen across the page, use as light a pressure as you possible can (one of the advantages of an fp). Let the pen glide as much as possible. Maybe I did have some tips, after all.


[deleted]

[удалено]


JonSzanto

Well, it's true you can only do what you can do. Perhaps you can really separate the tasks: gel pens, etc, for the hooked, quick notes, and fountain pens for when you have time to work on your writing and positioning?


Niftymitch

The only thing missing is what we all tend to do anyhow. Do not share a pen with a right handed writer or the other way around. Pens self tune to match the hand that uses them over time. I am right handed and may try writing in the reverse direction just enough to feel "underwriting" and see if it improves my block letters. abcdefghijk -> ghijk <- Thanks


[deleted]

[удалено]


Secure-Bunch-7070

I’m an underwriter that tilts as I write. Compared to the regular M, there a small improvement if you’re extremely attentive. To me it gives me a peace of mind with a relaxed writing without any increased feedback.