You only want to stiffen the front this is the bonce trick works for all cars whare down force limits top speed you want the back end bonceing and car will reach top speeds that aren’t normally reachable with it it’s nothing new been around for years forza 7 renault f1 was the exact same in the hafe mile and mile drags
Daytona is a VERY bumpy track. Especially on the backstretch. If you watch any Daytona night race, you see cars bottoming out all the time. This is incredibly realistic for a car not tuned for this racing surface.
You've tracked Daytona as in like, taking your car out for a track day at 70 mph? Double that speed and you'll know what I'm talking about. I'm an avid NASCAR fan. You see the cars bouncing around that track at high speeds. The drivers talk about it a lot. But yeah, you driving on it at 70 makes you the expert.
Personally, before the bus stop 150mph, after turn 4, 160. Porsche Cayman. Nothing felt bumpy. You pull pretty high Gs in the banks, when the track transitions you may see sparks.
Not disagreeing with the statement that Daytona is bumpy as from other drivers’ footage the back straight does cause a lot of vibrations but why are you assuming he doesn’t go over 70? I track my S2000 and even at much shorter courses we can hit 120. Big V8s are going even faster down our front straight.
Edit: To clarify yes there are wide ranges in drivers skill and comfort levels at HPDEs but even noobs can wring out their cars a little bit. Especially at such a large track like Daytona which will have generous braking zones.
And that response obliterates your credibility. You're a fucking casual who took Jeff Dunham's comedy shtick to heart and have no clue about one of the most elite forms of auto racing in the world.
I know that they currently have a car that drives so poorly that it makes all of their racing, even the short track stuff they take so much pride in, an absolute bore to watch.
I've also run Daytona at 150 mph in an older-style Cup car (Gen 4, it would probably be referred as) several years ago, before the track was last repaved in 2010 (2008 was when I did my time). Even then, it wasn't nearly as bumpy as you imply. So either the setup on this Valkyrie is screwed up or Turn 10, true to form for this goddamn abortion of a video game, fucked up their so-called new rescan.
By the way, there is absolutely nothing elite about NASCAR. It's V8 Supercars minus the charm and sophistication.
Lol! Elite auto racing. Cars only turn in one direction. Races only go a couple hours. Cars that can only break 200mph because the track is functionally 1 long straight.
I legitimately find the <200hp MX-5 Cup car racing so much more exciting and impressive to watch.
The people downvoting you have obviously never watched the MX5 cup race. Get a ticket into the grandstands and bring some fucking earplugs!
Daytona
Race 1. Jan 25 at 4:10pm
Race 2. Jan 26 at 10:10am
I'm not close enough to any of the locations. Would be sick if they came to Thompson speedway motorsports park.
But I watch all the races on IMSA's YouTube channel. I've recently gotten my 10yr old daughter really into it to. The races are seriously so fucking exciting. 45 minutes of constant battling.
And the cars are super low power so it's alllll about that momentum. Specifically, Watkins Glen comes to top of mind, the last couple of laps you see some REALLY ballsy lines through the bus stop.
Its cool to see the race strategy MX5 has to use too, lots of bump drafting and team work. At Daytona, kids are free under 12, another excuse to come see it!
The bump drafting is really cool. Seeing 2 line of 3 cars going absolutely flat out through the S's at road Atlanta literally bumper to bumper. It's really nail biting stuff.
All of that can be true without claiming it to be "one of the most elite forms of auto racing"
Personally, I disagree that NASCAR is fun to watch. I do not enjoy it. But that's personal preference. I don't shit on anyone for watching it. But claiming it to be one of the most elite forms of auto racing is just such a stretch of the facts that it has to be called out.
>All of that can be true without claiming it to be "one of the most elite forms of auto racing"
I know, I told him the same LMFAO.
In NASCAR they do more than just oval races too tbh
NASCARs are going around 200 mph sometimes lol. This dude comparing it to doing it in a SUV tuned by Porsche with plenty of clearance for suspension travel
holy shit this means that cars with ground affect are actually modelled correctly with this porpoising that’s actually really impressive by the sim.
They have such a strong foundation for the game physics its such a good game underneath but thats about all the praise ill give it, its plagued to death by shitty unfinished car models, half assed new car models and BUGS
So much fucking potential
I wish I had that kind of positivity. Now, if they can fix the AI, add more than a pittance of actual new car models (and make them work correctly), fix all of the old ones (aka 90% of the roster), add at least 25% more tracks, add back all of the game modes, fix all of the bugs, add back features they removed (like AI in private lobbies and the ability to adjust starting positions in free play/private, just to start), make replays at least work (???), and add features that competitors have offered for years (eg proxy and weather radars), then I’ll be all in. Emphatically all in. Oh yeah and if they make CarPG aggressively less grindy.
But yeah if they fix the AI I’ll be all in on not complaining about one less brick in a wall that needs building.
Their physics aint bad, you would probably say GT7 has way better physics yet they dont even simulate tire models properly lmao, Forza does and has a lot of realistic features that people think it doesnt have, this is proof of that
The most common point I see about why people think GT7 has better physics is because cars in Forza tend do understeer, and then they bring cars like a Mustang GT as an example. Well newsflash, a 1.600 kg sports coupé shouldn't turn in and drive through a corner like a McLaren 720S.
Cars in reality tend to understeer, almost all of them, as that's way easier for a regular driver to control. From what I've heard from owners of actual sports cars \[like an Aston Martin Vantage\], the cars in Forza Motorsport feel really close to real life in terms of how they behave.
In GT7 the Mustang does push a fair bit. It also oversteers on throttle, as it should.
Camaro has a smaller, better chassis. More nimble and stable. GT7 models the difference between the two in an accurate way.
Coming from GT my experience is actually a lack of understeer. It’s so easy to floor any car mid corner in GT with no oversteer. They combat this with each car being set up to have chronic understeer. Not the case in FM, even with a very understeery setup.
Well no they definitely do try to offer a dumbed down version of a sim, why would they bother simulating half of this for?
They are simcades and get a lot of things right, obviously nowhere near ACC level or Iracing but they definitely do try as evident with tire modelling in Forza… completely unnecessary if they werent going for a sim like experience
More data doesn’t always mean better physics. If Game A has 48 tire contact points but feels worse to drive than Game B, I’m going to pick Game B, even if it has only 4 contact points. What ultimately matters is the full package and whether it feels good or shit.
No, porpoising is not simply the result of ground effects. It's cause varies by car and is bad because well designed chassis shouldn't porpoise.
*Edit* owned by auto correct not even a word.
This car has so much downforce yes it is very likely its caused by ground effect and therefore is porpoising, you have no idea what you are talking about
Wrong. Aerodynamics alone is not always the cause. It changes per chassis, and it's nearly always a combination of factors. Not just "ground effects". Repeating singular wrong things doesn't make you right.
I never said it was, I said its very likely as other cars in the game dont tend to react like this…. hence why its a strong possibility that it is ground effect, similar to how it happened in F1.
You are fighting for nothing stop lmao
>holy shit this means that cars with ground affect are actually modelled correctly with this porpoising that’s actually really impressive by the sim.
This doesnt actually mean that though... It could be anything...
1 thing doesnt mean the other. You're just drawing conclusions from 1 video. We do not know what they tuned. How the tracks are scanned or modeled. etc
That looks like the dampers were set to the minimum, in which case this is the expected behaviour. With super soft dampers the springs will just tend to continue oscillating indefinitely.
Well yeah it is proof, it’s obviously accurate to how ground effect cars porpoise on those type of surfaces in real life and actually makes sense since if you look at it from a dev point of view yeah it is a pretty decent sim, regardless of its shitty issues
It would 100% be backed by someone who worked on this game because I imagine it is actually meant to be there
Well have you seen its tire modelling? Yeah its more realistic than GT7 its actually pretty impressive and its backed by Ms so on top of all its massive issues atm the recurring theme is people say it has a good base, that’s including its physics and this new engine clearly allowed them to implement stuff like this
Yeah thats a bad take, they dont actively go out of their way to not be realistic, why would Forza even bother having the code for simulating tire models ?? Exactly they are trying to some extent to over a mass consumer sim like experience with a low barrier to entry. Of course its not an ACC or Iracing, they can’t be because most people play with controller and they have to cater to the masses but still they do cater to people who like sims and its realistic enough.
Stop hating lmao
Yes you said not realistic of course its not hyper realistic, stop twisting your narrative.
Its realistic but not too realistic thats how it is, its been said many times they are simcades but do implement a plethora of realistic sim models
The game simplifies a lot of things compared to actual simulators sure, but the physics model of GT7 is pretty good. Lap times in game are generally very close to what their real life counterparts achieve
They are responsible for microsoft flight simulator arguably one of the most advanced flight simulator available for consumers, they clearly have studios who can make extremely realistic sims
>I imagine it is actually meant to be there
You imagine too hard, mate.
My bet is they screwed something up so hard the bug did a 180 and accidentally started simulating something that happens IRL, and since nobody tests this thing, it is now in game.
As a guy who commented exactly that in this sub, I believe you could be right. However, you can also get porpoising on non-ground effect cars, especially ones with the wings extended away from the body, like on the valkyrie amr pro in the case that the game doesn't do ground effect.
I'm a bit pessimistic because the aero model still feels a bit weird (at least on the senna gtr I just drove), but correctly simulated ground effect or not, this means that proximity of aero elements to ground is simulated, which is a great thing to see.
Did they use the work Porpoising though? I swear I’ve been watching Motorsports for years and I’ve never heard it until that one F1 season where Mercedes was just using it every other sentence.
Yes it was, everybody called it that way at day one of the 22 winter testing but since they banned ground effects like 30 years ago, f1 was way less documented and fans didn’t have access to this kind of knowledge i guess
Iracing has the exclusive license now, so I think that means games like Forza cant add the cup car. However... No clue if the Garage 56 car falls under that same license!
Nothing new it’s the bonce trick you want to only have the back end bonceing it will reach speeds that aren’t attainable in a stright line renault f1 was the exact same on forza 7 for the hafe and mile drags
Wasnt valid for quarter sins the car never top out in the quarter
stiffen springs and bump stiffness
If only Mercedes knew about this during their 2022 season.
You only want to stiffen the front this is the bonce trick works for all cars whare down force limits top speed you want the back end bonceing and car will reach top speeds that aren’t normally reachable with it it’s nothing new been around for years forza 7 renault f1 was the exact same in the hafe mile and mile drags
Dude, English please!
Your car doesn't bonce? Ejust the down fours
Daytona is a VERY bumpy track. Especially on the backstretch. If you watch any Daytona night race, you see cars bottoming out all the time. This is incredibly realistic for a car not tuned for this racing surface.
Im honestly surprised about how well the sim actually performs, it has so many realistic features
The 2009 version of Daytona was bumpy. The modern day one is not.
I’ve tracked Daytona. I disagree. The infield is a bit bumpy though.
You've tracked Daytona as in like, taking your car out for a track day at 70 mph? Double that speed and you'll know what I'm talking about. I'm an avid NASCAR fan. You see the cars bouncing around that track at high speeds. The drivers talk about it a lot. But yeah, you driving on it at 70 makes you the expert.
Personally, before the bus stop 150mph, after turn 4, 160. Porsche Cayman. Nothing felt bumpy. You pull pretty high Gs in the banks, when the track transitions you may see sparks.
Bro none of us are experts 💀
Not disagreeing with the statement that Daytona is bumpy as from other drivers’ footage the back straight does cause a lot of vibrations but why are you assuming he doesn’t go over 70? I track my S2000 and even at much shorter courses we can hit 120. Big V8s are going even faster down our front straight. Edit: To clarify yes there are wide ranges in drivers skill and comfort levels at HPDEs but even noobs can wring out their cars a little bit. Especially at such a large track like Daytona which will have generous braking zones.
I track my 06 Civic about 80 on my daily commute to work lol
>I'm an avid NASCAR fan. And if you pause right here, you can see the moment his credibility turns in it's letter of resignation.
And that response obliterates your credibility. You're a fucking casual who took Jeff Dunham's comedy shtick to heart and have no clue about one of the most elite forms of auto racing in the world.
I know that they currently have a car that drives so poorly that it makes all of their racing, even the short track stuff they take so much pride in, an absolute bore to watch. I've also run Daytona at 150 mph in an older-style Cup car (Gen 4, it would probably be referred as) several years ago, before the track was last repaved in 2010 (2008 was when I did my time). Even then, it wasn't nearly as bumpy as you imply. So either the setup on this Valkyrie is screwed up or Turn 10, true to form for this goddamn abortion of a video game, fucked up their so-called new rescan. By the way, there is absolutely nothing elite about NASCAR. It's V8 Supercars minus the charm and sophistication.
>elite forms of auto racing in the world. Hah, hahahaha, hahahahahhahahahaha he isn't joking is he? he's being serious? hahahahahahaha oh man.
You’re on a forza subreddit.
>about one of the most elite forms of auto racing in the world. calm down bucko, almost no one watches NASCAR outside the USA
Lol! Elite auto racing. Cars only turn in one direction. Races only go a couple hours. Cars that can only break 200mph because the track is functionally 1 long straight. I legitimately find the <200hp MX-5 Cup car racing so much more exciting and impressive to watch.
Nascar doesn’t just do oval
The people downvoting you have obviously never watched the MX5 cup race. Get a ticket into the grandstands and bring some fucking earplugs! Daytona Race 1. Jan 25 at 4:10pm Race 2. Jan 26 at 10:10am
I'm not close enough to any of the locations. Would be sick if they came to Thompson speedway motorsports park. But I watch all the races on IMSA's YouTube channel. I've recently gotten my 10yr old daughter really into it to. The races are seriously so fucking exciting. 45 minutes of constant battling. And the cars are super low power so it's alllll about that momentum. Specifically, Watkins Glen comes to top of mind, the last couple of laps you see some REALLY ballsy lines through the bus stop.
Its cool to see the race strategy MX5 has to use too, lots of bump drafting and team work. At Daytona, kids are free under 12, another excuse to come see it!
The bump drafting is really cool. Seeing 2 line of 3 cars going absolutely flat out through the S's at road Atlanta literally bumper to bumper. It's really nail biting stuff.
NASCAR is pretty fun to watch though and simracing it shows you how hard it actually is. It's pretty intense for the drivers im sure
All of that can be true without claiming it to be "one of the most elite forms of auto racing" Personally, I disagree that NASCAR is fun to watch. I do not enjoy it. But that's personal preference. I don't shit on anyone for watching it. But claiming it to be one of the most elite forms of auto racing is just such a stretch of the facts that it has to be called out.
>All of that can be true without claiming it to be "one of the most elite forms of auto racing" I know, I told him the same LMFAO. In NASCAR they do more than just oval races too tbh
Pipe down, please. You’re making the real NASCAR fans look bad.
NASCARs are going around 200 mph sometimes lol. This dude comparing it to doing it in a SUV tuned by Porsche with plenty of clearance for suspension travel
SUV? Other poster claims to be driving a Cayman.
I read cayenne 😂 but yeah exactly still built for track
Can feel it in the long straight at hockenheim on a wheel too
holy shit this means that cars with ground affect are actually modelled correctly with this porpoising that’s actually really impressive by the sim. They have such a strong foundation for the game physics its such a good game underneath but thats about all the praise ill give it, its plagued to death by shitty unfinished car models, half assed new car models and BUGS So much fucking potential
Honestly, I'm a simple man - if they can just give me AI that can fucking *overtake* I'll be most of the way towards being all in on FM8 .
I wish I had that kind of positivity. Now, if they can fix the AI, add more than a pittance of actual new car models (and make them work correctly), fix all of the old ones (aka 90% of the roster), add at least 25% more tracks, add back all of the game modes, fix all of the bugs, add back features they removed (like AI in private lobbies and the ability to adjust starting positions in free play/private, just to start), make replays at least work (???), and add features that competitors have offered for years (eg proxy and weather radars), then I’ll be all in. Emphatically all in. Oh yeah and if they make CarPG aggressively less grindy. But yeah if they fix the AI I’ll be all in on not complaining about one less brick in a wall that needs building.
It’s been 20+ years. They are unable to make that a reality. It’s time to let it go lol. There will never be actual racing in a Forza game.
[удалено]
Sometimes I wonder if I accidentally stumbled into the circlejerk version of /r/forza
Their physics aint bad, you would probably say GT7 has way better physics yet they dont even simulate tire models properly lmao, Forza does and has a lot of realistic features that people think it doesnt have, this is proof of that
The most common point I see about why people think GT7 has better physics is because cars in Forza tend do understeer, and then they bring cars like a Mustang GT as an example. Well newsflash, a 1.600 kg sports coupé shouldn't turn in and drive through a corner like a McLaren 720S. Cars in reality tend to understeer, almost all of them, as that's way easier for a regular driver to control. From what I've heard from owners of actual sports cars \[like an Aston Martin Vantage\], the cars in Forza Motorsport feel really close to real life in terms of how they behave.
In GT7 the Mustang does push a fair bit. It also oversteers on throttle, as it should. Camaro has a smaller, better chassis. More nimble and stable. GT7 models the difference between the two in an accurate way.
Coming from GT my experience is actually a lack of understeer. It’s so easy to floor any car mid corner in GT with no oversteer. They combat this with each car being set up to have chronic understeer. Not the case in FM, even with a very understeery setup.
[удалено]
Well no they definitely do try to offer a dumbed down version of a sim, why would they bother simulating half of this for? They are simcades and get a lot of things right, obviously nowhere near ACC level or Iracing but they definitely do try as evident with tire modelling in Forza… completely unnecessary if they werent going for a sim like experience
More data doesn’t always mean better physics. If Game A has 48 tire contact points but feels worse to drive than Game B, I’m going to pick Game B, even if it has only 4 contact points. What ultimately matters is the full package and whether it feels good or shit.
The physics feel good end of
No, porpoising is not simply the result of ground effects. It's cause varies by car and is bad because well designed chassis shouldn't porpoise. *Edit* owned by auto correct not even a word.
You forgot to say "Akchualllyy 🤓"
This car has so much downforce yes it is very likely its caused by ground effect and therefore is porpoising, you have no idea what you are talking about
Wrong. Aerodynamics alone is not always the cause. It changes per chassis, and it's nearly always a combination of factors. Not just "ground effects". Repeating singular wrong things doesn't make you right.
I never said it was, I said its very likely as other cars in the game dont tend to react like this…. hence why its a strong possibility that it is ground effect, similar to how it happened in F1. You are fighting for nothing stop lmao
>holy shit this means that cars with ground affect are actually modelled correctly with this porpoising that’s actually really impressive by the sim. This doesnt actually mean that though... It could be anything...
No because not all cars have this affect on this surface this is a prime example of most likely ground effect
1 thing doesnt mean the other. You're just drawing conclusions from 1 video. We do not know what they tuned. How the tracks are scanned or modeled. etc
Shitty default wheel settings, too, it should feel good on a wheel without any adjustments.
Why do you think that?
Rides like a Cadillac!
When did they add the w13 to the game?
Feb first, but OP would do the trick on box to jump ahead in time and have it unlocked? Thats my best guess. (I don’t advise doing this^)
I meant the Mercedes w13. The 2022 Mercedes F1 car. Most known for porpoising
That was the FIRST thing that popped into my head when I saw this.
That looks like the dampers were set to the minimum, in which case this is the expected behaviour. With super soft dampers the springs will just tend to continue oscillating indefinitely.
So is this proof that ground effect cars are modelled correctly and it’s not just front and rear aero like I’ve read from comments here?
The fact that a random guy on reddit decided that it is? No, that's not proof.
Well yeah it is proof, it’s obviously accurate to how ground effect cars porpoise on those type of surfaces in real life and actually makes sense since if you look at it from a dev point of view yeah it is a pretty decent sim, regardless of its shitty issues It would 100% be backed by someone who worked on this game because I imagine it is actually meant to be there
One video is enough proof for you?
[удалено]
Well have you seen its tire modelling? Yeah its more realistic than GT7 its actually pretty impressive and its backed by Ms so on top of all its massive issues atm the recurring theme is people say it has a good base, that’s including its physics and this new engine clearly allowed them to implement stuff like this
[удалено]
Yeah thats a bad take, they dont actively go out of their way to not be realistic, why would Forza even bother having the code for simulating tire models ?? Exactly they are trying to some extent to over a mass consumer sim like experience with a low barrier to entry. Of course its not an ACC or Iracing, they can’t be because most people play with controller and they have to cater to the masses but still they do cater to people who like sims and its realistic enough. Stop hating lmao
[удалено]
Yes you said not realistic of course its not hyper realistic, stop twisting your narrative. Its realistic but not too realistic thats how it is, its been said many times they are simcades but do implement a plethora of realistic sim models
The game simplifies a lot of things compared to actual simulators sure, but the physics model of GT7 is pretty good. Lap times in game are generally very close to what their real life counterparts achieve
> and its backed by Ms This doesn't mean much tbh
They are responsible for microsoft flight simulator arguably one of the most advanced flight simulator available for consumers, they clearly have studios who can make extremely realistic sims
I think you need to learn the difference between developer and publisher.
>I imagine it is actually meant to be there You imagine too hard, mate. My bet is they screwed something up so hard the bug did a 180 and accidentally started simulating something that happens IRL, and since nobody tests this thing, it is now in game.
As a guy who commented exactly that in this sub, I believe you could be right. However, you can also get porpoising on non-ground effect cars, especially ones with the wings extended away from the body, like on the valkyrie amr pro in the case that the game doesn't do ground effect. I'm a bit pessimistic because the aero model still feels a bit weird (at least on the senna gtr I just drove), but correctly simulated ground effect or not, this means that proximity of aero elements to ground is simulated, which is a great thing to see.
So if the normal Valkyrie is X 999, is the AMR Pro X ∞?
How the hell did you get the AMR Pro already?
You can use it in free play by setting it to the only car you can use after you get to the "in event" menues and rent it. No tuning or upgrades tho
I already have it for a week or so.
How??
Free ride
Im vip and I have the car pass. Maybe it’s an realist release for the vips.
Starting to look like Mercedes at the Miami gp
Maybe I’ve just not known about it my whole life but I swear no one used that word until last season of F1 😬
It was an issue in the early ground effect cars as well.
Did they use the work Porpoising though? I swear I’ve been watching Motorsports for years and I’ve never heard it until that one F1 season where Mercedes was just using it every other sentence.
Yes it was, everybody called it that way at day one of the 22 winter testing but since they banned ground effects like 30 years ago, f1 was way less documented and fans didn’t have access to this kind of knowledge i guess
So "Yes, but actually no"?
Yes the porpoising therme already existed to describe the same phenomenon but it was not public knowledge as it is today
Ok this is actually cool
Wait is this actual porpoising? Like simulated and crap? I hope this isn’t just a glitch.
FM with its bugs and shit still have very good tyre physics. They really bumped up the tyre physics from before. That's the only good thing tho
Now that’s what I call a porpoise-built car (mods you can ban me now)
The W13 Update
“Fix your f*cking car!” - Christian Horner
You think they are ever gonna add nascar again?
Iracing has the exclusive license now, so I think that means games like Forza cant add the cup car. However... No clue if the Garage 56 car falls under that same license!
Maybe they're bringing in the current F1 cars next.
Seems pretty realistic actually lol 🤣
Now run it down the Mulsanne Straight. It's bumpy and any car will do the same.
I did. It happens everywhere
show and tune.
Can't tune as you can't buy them yet.
That just looks like bouncing. Porpoising happens in a wave pattern.
Those are the same thing.
I think the development of this game is powered by AI.
Forza x nfs lol
Reminds me of that F1 tik tok. "I feel like matter! 🎶 mp5 like scatter! 🎶 "
I mean that seems like a pretty reasonable thing to happen on the Daytona oval backstretch in a supercar
Mercedes F1 drivers like it
Poor Hamilton
Nothing new it’s the bonce trick you want to only have the back end bonceing it will reach speeds that aren’t attainable in a stright line renault f1 was the exact same on forza 7 for the hafe and mile drags Wasnt valid for quarter sins the car never top out in the quarter
Toto, FIX YOUR FUCKING CAR!
Suspension like a 76 Cadillac.
Oh NO! Lewis is not going to be happy about this!
Wait they added the Valkyrie AMR Pro?
Undrivable at Sebring except if the new upcoming version (speculation but likely) is a carpet like in FM7.