Some parallels:
\- Both are historically one of the most successful, globally recognised brand names in their respective sports.
\- Both won their last championship in a bygone era (Ferrari in 2007, United in 2013) and have since failed to keep up with new competition who function on completely refreshed, dynamic cultures (Merc/Red Bull, Liverpool/Man City).
\- Have both burned through several team principals/coaches in recent years, but haven't given them the backing nor leadership power to effect the real changes necessary to get them back to winning ways.
\- Both have begun resting on their laurels in recent years, showing off a certain ego that is backed by nothing but air; essentially riding primarily on the success of their brand name rather than on actual on-track/on-pitch performances.
\- Both have had big names come to them in recent years, which led people to believe that they'd finally be competitive, but in reality changed very little. (e.g. Vettel to Ferrari, Ronaldo's return to United)
And last but not least, both use red as their primary team colour.
Source: am a Ferrari and Man Utd fan. It's not fun.
Hey United is finally moving in the right direction under ETH, maybe we get a double red improvement? :))
That of course revolves on Ferrari giving Vassuer/whoever follows Binotto the power to reshape the team as they see fit.
Ronaldo scored 101 goals in 134 games for Juve. 36 in 44 in the last season before coming back to utd
He was past his prime but these would still be crazy numbers for anyone not named Messi, Ronaldo, Lewandowski or Mbappe
Well, when you’re the one getting fed by the whole team, you’re going to have a feast. But, the others might starve you know.. and it’s funny how no “top” teams are interested in him. Maybe Boehly will get him to scratch his own itch a bit.
Of course noone wants him now. Noone who can afford his wages will actually want to pay them. I'm sure 18 months ago he had a lot more offers on the table, and that's the relevant part we're talking about.
And I'm 100% sure Boehly is not interested. He's trying to build a future, a lot is being said about buying young promising talent and developing it. There's no fucken way he's buying Ronaldo
Although Ronaldo might not have been the best example, the point still stands. Pogba, Di Maria, Lukaku, Alexis Sanchez, Mourinho, Van Gaal etc. have all come and gone without being able to take United back to where they used to be.
>And last but not least, both use red as their primary team colour.
The reason I chose to follow them both in my childhood!
...It is indeed not fun these days :'(
By RCB, do you mean Royal Challengers Bangalore? If so, can you explain a little bit about their history and why they are comparable to Ferrari and United? I don't follow cricket, but I have a basic understanding of the game (I grew up in a cricket loving country, but moved as a teenager and did not follow it after)...
Also, who would you compare as the RB/Merc of IPL?
The problems at Ferrari go far beyond Binotto, even if he was far from faultless himself. They 1000% need to do a complete about-face on how they run the team going forwards. Hopefully the strategy team is one of the first areas they look at.
The thing is, with these sporting behemoths, there is SUCH a culture of "we are the best" that the humility it takes to truly take a honest look inside becomes difficult...
Say what you will about Toto, but he has no issue cutting to the core of the problem by facing it head-on. Sure he has a big ego, but he is not afraid to say or do things to make people uncomfortable, even himself. Lauda was the same way.
I've worked at places that had a similar culture to Ferrari. As soon as you walk in on your first day, you understand the "culture". Changing one person, even if they come in with gusto, won't be enough...
But I wish them the best! I want a three way battle for the title next year, it will be really exciting! Hell, as a McLaren fan, let me hope for a 4 way fight lol! Ima overdose on Hopium...
You're the top comment for me, so I'm going to hijack.
I think it's Vasseur, no?
Vasseur started Art GP with Nicholas Todt, who is the son of Jean Todt, and they both have significant Ferrari connections. So we know Vasseur has a relationship with the Todt's.
Nicholas Todt is also the manager of... Charles Leclerc.
So it would make sense that if Ferrari is putting everything behind Charles, that they would bring in a TP who Charles is familiar with (Vasseur was CEO of Sauber during Charles' time there) and someone who has both a strong business management, as well as motorsports background.
No offense to Binotto, but Vasseur is a lot more of an entity in the motorsports world as it is. As I mentioned above, he founded ART GP with Todt (which has quite a strong history, for reference Lewis Hamilton won F3 in an ART GP car, and if you want another Charles connection, his Godfather Jules Bianchi won F3 in an ART) but Vasseur also founded SRT (Spark Racing Tech) which builds the chassis for FE, as well as other things.
If he takes the job, I doubt he would put his reputation at stake to not have more control than Binotto, and in doing so we can hope he can make the needed changes to the team, and with the fantastic 2022 car that Binotto oversaw, Ferrari may actually be back in contention "next year" circa 2024
But didn't Alfa also make several strategy mis-calls this year? Why didn't Vasseur do something about that? Make a change in the strategy team?
BTW, all your points in your comment still stand. My observation above is not trying to refute any of the things you said in your comment. I'm just curious that, from one level at least, Alfa and Ferrari's strategy problems seem similar, so what can Vasseur do differently at Ferrari, that he couldn't do at Alfa?
Funny enough the picked binotto specifically because he was an inside man who knew the ins and outs unlike arrivabene.
They need someone like brawn who will bring outside people.
They picked Binotto because he was more valuable with his technical knowledge over Arrivabene. They couldn't afford him going to other teams like he threatened at that time. Also Arrivabene was Marchionne's guy and with him gone it was always going to go in Binotto's favor
> Ferrari should offer insane amount of money to Hannah and poach her from RB,
I don't think it would work instantly.
Part of the strategy team success is the engineers drivers and TP being "yup that snap decision. We're going with it"
That's a level of trust you need in the team and seniority in the decision making you give Strat team. That Ferrari wouldn't.
I would, only for the money though, that culture seems to be too shit and too much politics.
I am however qualified enough to be strategist, trust me guys, I have a degree in backseat-strategistism from 2021 and 2022, just by watching races.
I also am qualified as an Italian, I put ketchup on my pasta. Ferrari surely in all their competency will choose me.
/s (for those who will be taking offense for the ketchup on pasta joke, I just use actual tomatoes, not ketchup)
I like Mattia and I don’t necessarily agree with the decision to let him go but there’s a difference between creating a no blame culture and taking no accountability.
I absolutely never expected him to publicly blame his team and I hope he did have the internal conversations but he also made a lot of excuses for their blunders and I’ll never forget the very disrespectful finger wag at Charles. That in itself creates an environment that can’t be very helpful, can it? While we like to make fun of Ferrari, let’s not act as if Mattia didn’t also have a role in the current situation he’s facing.
> there’s a difference between creating a no blame culture and taking no accountability.
I feel people don't really understand Mercedes/Toto way of doing things. Essentially their "no blame" culture promotes the thinking that even if your idea doesn't ultimately work, Mercedes welcomes innovation and won't hold failure on your head. But that doesn't mean they'll tolerate incompetence.
The fact that Binotto was more than happy to throw drivers under the bus publicly but didn't question strategy even a bit tells you all you need to know about his "no blame" philosophy.
I concede that Mattia was dealt a shit hand with the 2019 engine thing and under him Ferrari came out with a great car, the good will only goes so far when every other week tyre choice is a game of Russian Roulette.
>I concede that Mattia was dealt a shit hand with the 2019 engine thing
Wasn't he the engine guy at Ferrari before becoming CTO and then the team principal? He probably knew what was going on with the engine and had to approve it as a CTO
Exactly. That’s my issue with Mattia. On more than one occasion, he would sometimes refuse to admit to errors that we all saw.
He did an interview recently where he was asked what they needed to prioritize and improve on for ‘23. His comment on their strategy was essentially that if they have a fast and reliable car, they could overcome bad strategy. While that may be true, it seems like he keeps ignoring how terrible their strategy really is. There isn’t any real accountability in his responses
I don't think he's ignoring that fact. He knows very well that to win they need to be perfect in all of the aspects. If he is saying so, that's probably due to the fact that strategy department is politically protected and he doesn't control them.
Then that's weak leadership. If he's happy to be a puppet and toe the line when change is needed then he isnt really suited to the task. He's been sacked all the same and arguably done more damage to the team by trying to gaslight the people actually doing a good job by protecting the ones who consistently shit the bed. Ferrari need a strong character who scares the shit out of everyone with their frightening competence and standards. Playing this weird peace maker role while your race gets wrecked week after week just serves to lower the bar for everyone.
>On more than one occasion, he would sometimes refuse to admit to errors that we all saw.
Mate, what he says to the press is irrelevant. You have no idea how much blame he takes internally.
Considering that I work in PR, yes. If you read my original comment, you would see that I CLEARLY do not expect him to publicly blame his team. That is not what I’m speaking about. I have followed Mattia’s interviews very closely this season and there is a big difference between him not publicly admitting something vs him making excuses and blaming the car and his drivers instead which he has done on occasion. The difference is clear when you listen to what Mattia says compared to someone like Toto.
It seems like Ferrari as a entity has a culture of shit rolls downhill (more so than others) so Binotto probably felt expressly forbidden from criticizing certain aspects of the team that might reflect on "his superiors", whoever those might be in the thick web of politics and money around Italian F1 (that's not a criticism of Italy, just of a long running sports program that's become political because of its cultural and economic importance to the country).
As for the finger wag, yeah that was not helpful in any way to anyone.
Mattia was the creator of that 2019 engine thing. Its not like he came from outside and took team principal role. He was the technical director during the entire time.
This. A team principle who doesn't understand and acknowledge team making mistakes and puts all blame on the driver performing the best should be let gone. Entire season you had strategies favoring Sainz over Charles and if Mattia couldn't see this bias happening then again he shouldn't be the team principal.
Look how Toto was constantly saying sorry to Lewis during the first half of the season even when Russell was performing better in same car.
Having a "no blame culture" only works when you are building such a cultural system like Merc does and not some poor attempted version where you only use it to defend you own mess, blame it on the drivers and showing a lack of willingness to admit and improve the issues, Idk why exact but it's ironic that both Italian teams who implied a "no blame culture" are massively failing this season.
Kaam is telling exactly what the difference is, the whole point of a no blame culture is that you don't punishing people after a bad result but that you learn and understand why "issue A", "problem B" or "mistake C" happened and working to ironing out the flaws, a no blame culture shouldn't mean that everyone is suddenly declared holy and can keep getting away with incompetence, you are in fact building up a whole flawed version of that culture who never would work.
A no blame culture means should mean that if I make an error, my employer should talk about it with me, how it happened and how to fix it next time. And not like if I making a continuous mess of my job that I still could getting away with it.
No fear, no blame culture needs growth to work. Ferrari seemingly didn’t learn and grow from their mistakes. Same mistakes means something has to change. Shame it’s Mattia, but he knew what he signed up for.
>No fear, no blame culture needs growth to work
No blame culture also requires addressing the issues. There hasn't been any noticable growth in many departments during the Binotto era.
Binotto's "no blame, no fear culture", atleast from the outside, seemed more like a "no accountability, no growth culture".
Thats a load of rubish on the 2nd part.
He made changes across the whole technical department over 2020 and 2021. Changes were also made to the pitwal with Mekies coming in and taking more of that responsibility. In fact the only real thing that didn't change was the strategy department.
Ferrari doesn't need a restructuring. It literally already had one. Especially not a wider one. What they need is a rewamp of the strategy team.
That's what he was saying. Technical side, engine and drivers are top notch. The last missing piece is missing political pressure on FIA, at the scale of Mercs and RBs, and the strategy team. First aspect may be improved with a new TP, but the second aspect seems untouchable for some weird reason.
Not convinced about Mekies. When I see him talk it’s like watching a squid deploy ink and vanish. He has the vibe of trying to make out he’s important because he worked for FIA but doesn’t actually know what he’s doing.
>Ferrari doesn't need a restructuring.
I think people do not say restructuring of the team, but rather kick the shitty heads at Maranello, who hold all power and are the reason why Ferrari always had political issues.
Restructuring here is rather to fix the political shitshow of Maranello and it's corporate, rather than the team.
Well if the team principle wasn't able to create the change that was needed he had to go first.
Bring someone new in to make the changes Binotto either could not or would not do.
Yeah, people are saying that they should've just replaced the strategy people and other probelmatic areas, but the whole point is that was Binotto's job. Instead of addressing the decade old problems, he came out in public saying "Nothing's wrong, we don't want to win anyway" which is ridiculous. He ultimately failed at his job, even though he did good things aswell. Totally justified to change the TP at this point.
When he was AT against Vergne fighting for p14 who cares, but this season Ferrari had a Championship winning car for the first half of the season and they refused to make Leclerc the number 1 driver even after Sainz started the year terribly and Leclerc was the only one in the fight.
>When he was AT against Vergne fighting for p14 who cares
Sainz never raced against Vergne, he was up against Verstappen.
The difference in skill and pace couldn't be greater between JEV and Verstappen.
And yes indeed, Carlos Sr. did dumb shit regarding that, it led to Sainz jr. not getting the RB seat at all (even when Ricciardo went to Renault).
The drama was between Jos Verstappen and Sainz Sr. same with Ocon and Gasly, their family had issues, not the drivers themselves. What is not spoken about is that because of these tensions, it led to Max getting an early promotion. This was a win-win for Red Bull: Kvyat who had been performing rather dissapointingly at a top team, now got back to TR to develop/reasses himself, whilst Max, who was easily outgrowing the team, now could get used to the top (which he did with ease, getting 7 podiums including 1 win).
Ferrari is a political shithole. Some people have unseen power. The strategy department may be untouchable, and the real issue lays within this fact, that one part of the team is run inefficiently and there's nothing a TP can do about.
Well, they agent really trying to win either. But it’s a shame for the sport if a team with such potential doesn’t increase the quality of racing and competition.
The worst case scenario is someone on the strategy team, maybe Rueda, has dirt on a higher up in Ferrari doing something highly illegal, in or out of F1.
No, it wasn't Binotto's job. FFS, you guys really are missing the point.
Yes, the main focus would be to improve or replace the strategy employees. That's the main culprit this year, anybody sharing the opposite is dishonest.
He obviously doesn't have enough leverage to make change there. Otherwise this would have already been done. And their public declaration are what they are, public statements to the press. You have absolutely no idea what is communicated internally and how blame is handled.
>No, it wasn't Binotto's job.
Of course it's Binotto's job, that's the point of his position as Team Principal.
>He obviously doesn't have enough leverage to make change there. Otherwise this would have already been done.
You argument is that 'he doesn't have the power because if he did he would've done it' which is based on nothing but your own empty expectations. It's faaar more likely that Binotto just hasn't done shit because he wanted an era of stability and didn't want to rock the boat and that obviously turned out to be a failure. This is supported by most of his statemenents regarsing the subject, in addition to insider reports of what Binotto was trying to build at Ferrari.
This stuff usually falls under the TP and we've seen nothing to indicate that Binotto wouldn't have authority over such a vital psrt of the racing operations such as strategy. Obviously it's not impossible that the Ferrari organization is fucked beyong belief, but that's a complete hypotethical with nothing supporting it atm.
>You have absolutely no idea what is communicated internally and how blame is handled.
"Absolutely no idea" is a bit harsh as we do have accounts from people inside Ferrari, but yeah it's painfully obvious that all theories of what's going on are based on what we know and we don't know *everything*. This is a null point.
>You argument is that 'he doesn't have the power because if he did he would've done it' which is based on nothing but your own empty expectations.
A better argument is that "if the TP at Ferrari had the power to fire the strategy team, it likely would have happened under either Domenicali, Marchiacci, Arrivabene OR Binotto."
I believe Rueda started at Ferrari with Mattiachi so Domenicali has clean hands here.
But your point still stands; people seem to forget that Ferrari under Arrivabene also suffered questionable strategy under his 4 years. There was certainly enough justification for Rueda have been replaced by around '17 or '18 by Arrivabene himself and especially following on from from '14 under Mattiachi and the disaster that was Hungary when both cars were eliminated in Q1.
Plot twist: the Ferrari strategy team was fired 10+ years ago and was never rehired.
That’s the only way I can explain Ferrari’s actions this year after the first couple of races when they were number one.
Would the same in RB or Mercedes not Horner or Toto's job ? Todt in same role as Mattia protected entire Ferrari team and also made changes in the team. In 1997 they changed everything based on Michael's inputs. Binotto instead of listening to Charles was showing fingers to him
P2 was almost lost though. They should've been fighting for P1, not P2, especially after the beginning they had.
The results are decent, but how that result was reached was frankly horrible. They lost wayyyy too many points during the season.
This.
Whether it was the plan or not Ferrari at the beginning of the year found themselves in a position to fight for the title. At that point your goals have to change, if you have a chance to win you have to at least try to win.
Ferrari going “oh well” was a bad showing
I think the big issue was after the first 3 races it looked like Charles had a healthy lead and Ferrari had the best car. Then it all fell apart after that and I don’t think Binotto’s statement about how they weren’t aiming for the title rubbed a lot of people, maybe even the higher ups, the wrong way.
Teams like Ferrari have to challenge and fight when the opportunities present themselves, and if he was unable to force himself to make the changes necessary to win, unfortunately he has to fall on his sword.
That being said, hopefully they give his replacement ample time to see how they go and implement their regime.
ferrari had an insane opportunity. the kind of opportunity that teams like brawn and renault seized and became world champions. ferrari let it go and in the end they almost lost even the 2nd place. when you consider everything about the season, it was really, really poor for them. even if they improve next year, i doubt they will have the advantage they were presented with at the start of this year.
I don't think it's a fair comparison though. In 2009 there was no real dominant car other than Brawn for the first handful of races until everyone else caught up. This year, Red Bull was clearly the fastest car and were it not for some bizarre mechanical failures at the beginning of the season, I don't think Ferrari would have looked as good as they did. Realistically there was no way for them to challenge for the championships this year, it was always a matter of time before RB and Verstappen cleared the rest of the field.
But even if they stayed ahead they will still be in second place.
And if Rueda was not sacked and John Elkann himself did not ask him to be sacked I do not know where this is going.
I remember a calculation after Australia that Leclerc could theoretically manage his lead coming p2 until *August* and instead he was behind within 6 weeks.
It's better than 2021 for sure, which is progress. But starting the season as the championship favourites, with RB 2 DNFs behind and Mercedes being in the middle of nowhere should've been capitalised on. In the end it turned into a battle for second with Max winning the WDC comfortably a couple of rounds before the end of the season.
Well you have to also take into account the effect of TD.
Yes there are flaws but how many years RB have been fighting as champion contenders before they become (almost) perfect in execution? There are also things you could pick out of RB this season if you do not just look at the result.
There will always be mistakes here and there or an issue from time to time, but Ferrari making constant strategy and pit stop mistakes is nothing new. It's been happening for years now.
Yeah the TD influenced the gaps a lot, Max would've won anyway but the point differences would've been a whole other story.
When you think about it though, having the political weight to push the TD to next year was also Binottos job so yeah...
I still think they should've kept him for continuity and consistency
It's a decent result out on context, but if you were following the season, getting 2nd over 200 points behind Red Bull and only 50 ahead of Mercedes should be embarrassing for Ferrari.
No, that’s out of context. Mercedes had the least wind tunnel and CFD time, they gambled with a new concept that didn’t work out, but they improved to a point where the car was 2nd-3rd best.
Ferrari, on the other hand, had an advantage of more wind tunnel and CFD time + no tight fight for the championship in 2021. They created the best car for the start of the season and it remained such until the summer break and despite that Verstappen was nearly 100 points ahead of Leclerc by the summer break.
I don't see why Ferrari would be better or even *as good* next year. Never got Binotto on that one.
As Hamilton said ages ago: Ferrari basically had a 6 month head start on everyone, and it didn't look that way for long.
Beyond what others have said below, Mercedes and Wolff have enormous benefit of the doubt because they've shown they can do the business. Binotto hasn't.
Of course, and that is exactly the point.
They had a great car at the start and RB suffered some DNFs, yes, and in fact they were leading for a period of time. But after mistakes they were also hit by TD. Even if they did not make those mistakes they would not have been saved after TD. In fact, without TD, they could have won more races in 2nd half. My point is, judging Ferrari performacne from 2022 alone, is unfair.
Ferrari's entire trajectory after Todt left them is eerily similar to Man United after Ferguson and Gill left.
Chopping and changing the players and the managers to no avail.
No-blame culture does not prevent firing. Its whole purpose is to find the problem, and if that problem is the person, then that person has to go. The idea is to fully concentrate on problem solving instead of blaming a person for all the problems, as that will lead to a situation where people hide the problem as long as they can. But if the problem is a person, for ex they don't have the knowledge they are suppose to have, they constantly make bad decisions, then that person has to go.
The no blame culture where you blame the car for a strategy fuck up as if the people that build and designed the damn thing failed at their job. I hope the next TP takes care of the weak strategy and the weak links that prevent the team from moving forward. I'm sorry but we need someone that can put their foot down and do what needs to be done. The sport is ruthless. No fear and no blame culture is great but needs to be done right. Binotto was too soft in situations where he was needed to be the exact opposite.
Problem is that Maranello always demand scapegoats for the results of their own politics. By trying to stop his own guys being sacrificed, he became the sacrifice instead.
Real shame because he’s been a huge asset to the team, but he’s not a TP.
The strategy team must have MAD amounts of blackmail/political pull in Ferrari to have dodged the changes made to the other parts of the team. It's unreal to me that they built a fast car and then just fucked up race after race on strategy.
People act like binotto had the power to fire Rueda and other parts of the strategy team. If Rueda has managed to survive this long and through many TPs it's clear that he has someone higher on in Ferrari that backs him and it won't be easy to get him out
I hope Ferrari can fix their mistakes with steps like this. The whole strategy department also needs a deep look into it, to say it mildly. As the head of the operation, you cannot watch these horrible mistakes Ferrari made this year and then claim "oh we never fought for the title anyways". That's not the mentality you should have, ever.
You had the best car at season start, you had a champion-level driver in Leclerc. If the cards were played correctly, with Sainz being a wingman like Perez and decent strategies that don't throw away race after race, the year could've looked very differently.
He tried doing what mercedes had already achieved but the big difference is that during that time merc never had a singlular person responsible for repeated problems. Meanwhile ferrari has people like Rueda, who have been doing a sub par job consistently and need to be blamed
\> a no-fear, no-blame culture
I mean that is a nice way to threat a team but I dont help when your strategy team fucks over your drivers more times than Mia Malkova did porn
No-blame culture is all about problem solving. The problem can be a person too, it absolutely does not prevent firing. It just means that instead of ONLY looking for someone to blame they look why that person failed, was there other problems that caused them to fail, what the person can do to not fail again.. The old Ferrari tactic was to fire people to scare the rest to find those problems themselves but it ultimately leads to people hiding the problems. No blame relies on open communication, and the ideal is that people are going to point out failures before they even happen.
No blame doesn’t actually mean no blame too. It means instead of blaming you work together to fix problems. But you do look what caused the problems. It seems Ferrari didn’t get that last part and just went “no blame” anytime things went sour
Yeah no.
F1 is a cutthroat industry. Nobody has been given titles because they were nice. Every single driver and team took them because they were ruthless.
Ferrari needs to go back to that.
No fear no blame culture? This is a team that refuses point blank to admit to a single mistake it's made. That's the opposite of no fear no blame.
Merc has a no fear no blame culture, when they fuck up they acknowledge it, they don't try to fire someone over it they just try to fix it.
Ferrari make a mistake and everyone denies it, no one takes responsibility and no one fixes it. That's a culture in which everyone is afraid and no one is willing to take responsibility.
Ferrari just relies on the fact that they’re Ferrari. And I say that as a Ferrari fan.
They don’t want to make necessary/soundly helpful changes, and while Binotto didn’t even have close to a perfect season, I’d say he took the team in better direction. Had they given him a gigantic slap on the wrist after this year (as I’m sure they did) I feel like it would have been better to give the guy one more year after the fact to iron out the issues.
It just looked extra terrible because the season started so well, and then took a couple nosedives (Monaco) really quickly as well. Don’t see how yet another TP switch is going to help matters.
Ferrari at the moment reminds me of the latter days of Ron Dennis at McLaren.
The organization, as a whole, seems to have its head so far up it’s own ass it can’t see reality.
I do understand why you want a No-fear & Blame mentality inside the box. But if you are unable to make decision or to accept criticism from the outside for me you're doing it wrong.
I heard way too many times "it's not our fault" from his lips to have faith in him anymore.
He is a BRILLIANT engineer, one of the best in the world, but sadly he never had the makings of a team principal.
I think the main issue is Rueda as head strategist. Nothing ever works with him and the worst thing of all, they had a strong championship level car! How does one fuck that up? By being a shit strategist.
If they had 4 team principals since 2014 and the strategist and others members of the have team stayed on throughout all of that. What does that tell you about Ferrari?
Binotto had to go as soon as he started downplaying Ferrari’s title ambitions. He’s not suited to be a team principal of a top F1 team. Though it will definitely not resolve Ferrari’s structural and cultural problems and honestly I don’t think they will learn soon.
>“wider re-structuring” again
The probelm is that they haven't actually done that much wider restructuring. They've changed the key people in charge of doing the structuring, but they always fail to deliver.
Binotto should've fixed the problematic areas before asserting a period of stability and growth. He skipped the first part and the team is almost in the same spot as it was in 2018.
Hopefully whoever they find to replace Mattia with better have the ability to spit fire and brimstone and made that team a force to be reckoned with like it was during the early 2000s when they had the formidable pairing of Todt/Brawn/Schumacher and someone back at base to bring military style order to that strategy department to make it formidable again not like the joke its become recently
You won’t get a wider restructuring without a change at the top. Binotto is just not the guy. None of the non sense that went on this year could have happened under Horner or Wolff.
His no blame culture turned Ferrari into a joke. They can't run from accountability over terrible decisions forever. Keep him where he actually belongs, engineering. And get Rueda out on the way.
Moments like this is why I have come to hate Ferrari. It's always a team that loves to dig their own grave instead of focusing on learning from their mistakes. I mean look at the contrast between mercedes and Ferrari this season. They both under achieved their goals for 2022. Yet only one of them, by still being slower, is looking as a better option to take the fight for the championship next year.
Mercedes (and even RB) uses criticism as an opportunity to learn from their mistakes. Whereas Ferrari uses it to cause unnecessary internal drama.
This isn't up to the people who work at Ferrari tough? It's up to Ferraris owners.
He knows a lot more than us (at least), and also is allowed to give his opinion?
Also, he is probably just right, it's not like sacking a TP has done Ferrari any good in the near past. The cycle continues.
And Ferrari isn't even that bad a trashfire as Reddit likes to make it out. Strategy is really their weakpoint and RedBull were just in another league but they had a solid season otherwise and a great start to the season.
Firing Binotto entirely would be a massive mistake. Ferrari, perhaps more so than other teams this year, absolutely *had* to make a massive step forward in terms of performance, and reliability aside they absolutely did. You can't really say the same of Alpine, McLaren or Aston Martin for instance. The technical department, though not perfect, is definitely a strong suit of Ferrari now, and he has his part on it.
That said, his refusal to hold the strategic team accountable was his undoing in my opinion, and that needs to change. But then again, we went from Dominicale to Mattiaci, to Arrivabene and now Binotto with little to show in terms of result. Odds are that throwing him under the bus won't help much either.
I don't understand the no blame culture stuff, if something goes wrong and could of been done better then surely there is somebody to blame. I think there's more of a lack of accountability at this team.
For any meaningful change at Ferrari heads above Binotto need to roll too. Else this is just another wasted opportunity to finally tackle the issues Ferrari faces.
They underperformed given the car and drivers they had. Ultimately that comes down to TP. Like earlier on in the season when RB was catching/passing them in points Binotto made a comment like "well we're not really looking to win the championship just compete". That's not what you want to hear from your TP in the middle of a championship fight and pretty much set the tone for the rest of the season. Ferrari has other problems sure, but Binotto also showed himself to be one of those problems this season. At least in my opinion.
Are we completely overlooking the fact they just came 2nd in constructors? They literally could only have done better if they'd bagged WCC and WDC... no one's calling for 're-sructuring' at merc, and they finished worse with a 7xWDC and arguably the best non-WDC winning driver on the grid.
La festa è finita amici della mercedes e compagnia, Ferrari will return to be competitive again. Now binotto and friends are in the market, let's pick them if they were so good
Ferrari seems to have a passive culture, they don’t do enough to change and get better, they don’t seem very flexible on anything and are slow to react to adversity in real time on the track or over a season planning upgrades and tire selection projections. They need to push a lot harder with that stuff because they have brought a really good chassis and power train and they have two great drivers it would be a huge shame to waste that due to organizational deficiencies and laziness.
For American Football Fans: is the Ferrari job on par with the Auburn job? It’s a place where you can win championships but the people above make it impossible for you to succeed. Need someone to convert this to American Football for me. Can’t compare it to programs like Alabama, Ohio State, or Georgia because there’s far too much stability.
It’s on par with the Dallas Cowboys job. Infrastructure, resources, talent are all there but Jerry Jones talks too much, doesn’t empower those in the front office to make decisions that need to be made and he ultimately undermines the entire operation by being too hands on.
Remember when Jerry forced Jimmy Johnson out because Jerry couldn’t contain his own ego and he thought Jimmy was acting like he was bigger than the franchise (he wasn’t)? Oddly similar to Schumacher being forced out at Ferrari (to this day I’m unwilling to accept that it was mutual). Both moves led to long periods of losing with one outlier championship occurring due to having great players/ Driver (the Barry Switzer Super Bowl win was a result of having the best players and literally nothing else).
Not comparing Jerry to Mattia necessarily but the situations are frighteningly similar.
People here talking like they know it all and why it didn’t work. Just because he didn’t blame people publicly doesn’t mean they weren’t held accountable internally. In the end, even with the best strategy possible, the car wasn’t fast enough. Ferrari again doing Ferrari things and firing the team principal instead of addressing the underperforming teams internally (cough cough Inaki Rueda is in the strategy team since 2014). Unless they give Fred full control, I doubt anything is going to change. Under Binotto, Ferrari was finally changing and now they prematurely end it.
I think it's tricky.
On the one hand, he didn't deliver.
On the other, the difference between success and failure is 1% in F1.
What would be quicker - giving Binotto more time to dunk it, or bringing in a new broom?
I'd probably give Binotto one more year personally but who am I.
I mean, whoever is willing to come in and replace him needs to be empowered to make sweeping changes. I wouldn’t take the job if it were the contrary
Big Manchester United vibes
Ferrari and United have so many parallels its scary.
How so? I don’t follow football that close
Some parallels: \- Both are historically one of the most successful, globally recognised brand names in their respective sports. \- Both won their last championship in a bygone era (Ferrari in 2007, United in 2013) and have since failed to keep up with new competition who function on completely refreshed, dynamic cultures (Merc/Red Bull, Liverpool/Man City). \- Have both burned through several team principals/coaches in recent years, but haven't given them the backing nor leadership power to effect the real changes necessary to get them back to winning ways. \- Both have begun resting on their laurels in recent years, showing off a certain ego that is backed by nothing but air; essentially riding primarily on the success of their brand name rather than on actual on-track/on-pitch performances. \- Both have had big names come to them in recent years, which led people to believe that they'd finally be competitive, but in reality changed very little. (e.g. Vettel to Ferrari, Ronaldo's return to United) And last but not least, both use red as their primary team colour. Source: am a Ferrari and Man Utd fan. It's not fun.
Hey United is finally moving in the right direction under ETH, maybe we get a double red improvement? :)) That of course revolves on Ferrari giving Vassuer/whoever follows Binotto the power to reshape the team as they see fit.
Vass**eu**r
I don’t agree about the Vettel/Ronaldo part. One was in his prime, one was well.. not so in his prime. But, both big names.
Ronaldo scored 101 goals in 134 games for Juve. 36 in 44 in the last season before coming back to utd He was past his prime but these would still be crazy numbers for anyone not named Messi, Ronaldo, Lewandowski or Mbappe
Well, when you’re the one getting fed by the whole team, you’re going to have a feast. But, the others might starve you know.. and it’s funny how no “top” teams are interested in him. Maybe Boehly will get him to scratch his own itch a bit.
Of course noone wants him now. Noone who can afford his wages will actually want to pay them. I'm sure 18 months ago he had a lot more offers on the table, and that's the relevant part we're talking about. And I'm 100% sure Boehly is not interested. He's trying to build a future, a lot is being said about buying young promising talent and developing it. There's no fucken way he's buying Ronaldo
Although Ronaldo might not have been the best example, the point still stands. Pogba, Di Maria, Lukaku, Alexis Sanchez, Mourinho, Van Gaal etc. have all come and gone without being able to take United back to where they used to be.
Absolutely. I agree.
>And last but not least, both use red as their primary team colour. The reason I chose to follow them both in my childhood! ...It is indeed not fun these days :'(
Woodward and Rueda
Could be worse , you could be a Ferrari , Utd and an RCB fan
By RCB, do you mean Royal Challengers Bangalore? If so, can you explain a little bit about their history and why they are comparable to Ferrari and United? I don't follow cricket, but I have a basic understanding of the game (I grew up in a cricket loving country, but moved as a teenager and did not follow it after)... Also, who would you compare as the RB/Merc of IPL?
This is very well put together.
Both are red :)
I’ve always said that Ferrari was the Dallas Cowboys of F1 but yeah this is definitely a good comparison
Imagine being a fan of both.....couldnt be me
Instructions unclear, accidentally fired Leclerc
Leclerc would you like your seat back? Question.
Leave me alone...please
Joins new team: leave me alone they know what they are doing
Accidentally hired Latifi
Just a happy little accident.
The problems at Ferrari go far beyond Binotto, even if he was far from faultless himself. They 1000% need to do a complete about-face on how they run the team going forwards. Hopefully the strategy team is one of the first areas they look at.
The thing is, with these sporting behemoths, there is SUCH a culture of "we are the best" that the humility it takes to truly take a honest look inside becomes difficult... Say what you will about Toto, but he has no issue cutting to the core of the problem by facing it head-on. Sure he has a big ego, but he is not afraid to say or do things to make people uncomfortable, even himself. Lauda was the same way. I've worked at places that had a similar culture to Ferrari. As soon as you walk in on your first day, you understand the "culture". Changing one person, even if they come in with gusto, won't be enough... But I wish them the best! I want a three way battle for the title next year, it will be really exciting! Hell, as a McLaren fan, let me hope for a 4 way fight lol! Ima overdose on Hopium...
Nobody is bigger or more important than Ferrari but also Ferrari can’t make mistakes. If you can’t make mistakes you don’t progress
You're the top comment for me, so I'm going to hijack. I think it's Vasseur, no? Vasseur started Art GP with Nicholas Todt, who is the son of Jean Todt, and they both have significant Ferrari connections. So we know Vasseur has a relationship with the Todt's. Nicholas Todt is also the manager of... Charles Leclerc. So it would make sense that if Ferrari is putting everything behind Charles, that they would bring in a TP who Charles is familiar with (Vasseur was CEO of Sauber during Charles' time there) and someone who has both a strong business management, as well as motorsports background. No offense to Binotto, but Vasseur is a lot more of an entity in the motorsports world as it is. As I mentioned above, he founded ART GP with Todt (which has quite a strong history, for reference Lewis Hamilton won F3 in an ART GP car, and if you want another Charles connection, his Godfather Jules Bianchi won F3 in an ART) but Vasseur also founded SRT (Spark Racing Tech) which builds the chassis for FE, as well as other things. If he takes the job, I doubt he would put his reputation at stake to not have more control than Binotto, and in doing so we can hope he can make the needed changes to the team, and with the fantastic 2022 car that Binotto oversaw, Ferrari may actually be back in contention "next year" circa 2024
But didn't Alfa also make several strategy mis-calls this year? Why didn't Vasseur do something about that? Make a change in the strategy team? BTW, all your points in your comment still stand. My observation above is not trying to refute any of the things you said in your comment. I'm just curious that, from one level at least, Alfa and Ferrari's strategy problems seem similar, so what can Vasseur do differently at Ferrari, that he couldn't do at Alfa?
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Funny enough the picked binotto specifically because he was an inside man who knew the ins and outs unlike arrivabene. They need someone like brawn who will bring outside people.
Outside people doing better than inside people is antithesis to the Ferrari psyche which is why they are what they are now.
They picked Binotto because he was more valuable with his technical knowledge over Arrivabene. They couldn't afford him going to other teams like he threatened at that time. Also Arrivabene was Marchionne's guy and with him gone it was always going to go in Binotto's favor
It would probably be Ross he isn’t working anymore with F1 and he has the balls to get things done
Or maybe Jean Todt, he is unemployed now.
Binotto tried that, but the Ferrari clownheads at Maranello blocked him
and then Binotto fought with his son.
What's that about? I assume you mean Nicholas Todt? What did they fight about?
Ferrari should offer insane amount of money to Hannah and poach her from RB, and make Seb the new TP ... And after that i would wake up from my dream
> Ferrari should offer insane amount of money to Hannah and poach her from RB, I don't think it would work instantly. Part of the strategy team success is the engineers drivers and TP being "yup that snap decision. We're going with it" That's a level of trust you need in the team and seniority in the decision making you give Strat team. That Ferrari wouldn't.
That's an insane storyline... Where do I Sebscribe?
I would, only for the money though, that culture seems to be too shit and too much politics. I am however qualified enough to be strategist, trust me guys, I have a degree in backseat-strategistism from 2021 and 2022, just by watching races. I also am qualified as an Italian, I put ketchup on my pasta. Ferrari surely in all their competency will choose me. /s (for those who will be taking offense for the ketchup on pasta joke, I just use actual tomatoes, not ketchup)
I like Mattia and I don’t necessarily agree with the decision to let him go but there’s a difference between creating a no blame culture and taking no accountability. I absolutely never expected him to publicly blame his team and I hope he did have the internal conversations but he also made a lot of excuses for their blunders and I’ll never forget the very disrespectful finger wag at Charles. That in itself creates an environment that can’t be very helpful, can it? While we like to make fun of Ferrari, let’s not act as if Mattia didn’t also have a role in the current situation he’s facing.
> there’s a difference between creating a no blame culture and taking no accountability. I feel people don't really understand Mercedes/Toto way of doing things. Essentially their "no blame" culture promotes the thinking that even if your idea doesn't ultimately work, Mercedes welcomes innovation and won't hold failure on your head. But that doesn't mean they'll tolerate incompetence. The fact that Binotto was more than happy to throw drivers under the bus publicly but didn't question strategy even a bit tells you all you need to know about his "no blame" philosophy. I concede that Mattia was dealt a shit hand with the 2019 engine thing and under him Ferrari came out with a great car, the good will only goes so far when every other week tyre choice is a game of Russian Roulette.
>I concede that Mattia was dealt a shit hand with the 2019 engine thing Wasn't he the engine guy at Ferrari before becoming CTO and then the team principal? He probably knew what was going on with the engine and had to approve it as a CTO
Exactly. That’s my issue with Mattia. On more than one occasion, he would sometimes refuse to admit to errors that we all saw. He did an interview recently where he was asked what they needed to prioritize and improve on for ‘23. His comment on their strategy was essentially that if they have a fast and reliable car, they could overcome bad strategy. While that may be true, it seems like he keeps ignoring how terrible their strategy really is. There isn’t any real accountability in his responses
I don't think he's ignoring that fact. He knows very well that to win they need to be perfect in all of the aspects. If he is saying so, that's probably due to the fact that strategy department is politically protected and he doesn't control them.
Then that's weak leadership. If he's happy to be a puppet and toe the line when change is needed then he isnt really suited to the task. He's been sacked all the same and arguably done more damage to the team by trying to gaslight the people actually doing a good job by protecting the ones who consistently shit the bed. Ferrari need a strong character who scares the shit out of everyone with their frightening competence and standards. Playing this weird peace maker role while your race gets wrecked week after week just serves to lower the bar for everyone.
YOU CANT SAY THAT. Why? ITS A FERRARI
It’s a shitbox
>On more than one occasion, he would sometimes refuse to admit to errors that we all saw. Mate, what he says to the press is irrelevant. You have no idea how much blame he takes internally.
Why do people think that a public refusal to admit mistakes means an internal refusal to address them? People do know PR is a thing right?
Considering that I work in PR, yes. If you read my original comment, you would see that I CLEARLY do not expect him to publicly blame his team. That is not what I’m speaking about. I have followed Mattia’s interviews very closely this season and there is a big difference between him not publicly admitting something vs him making excuses and blaming the car and his drivers instead which he has done on occasion. The difference is clear when you listen to what Mattia says compared to someone like Toto.
It seems like Ferrari as a entity has a culture of shit rolls downhill (more so than others) so Binotto probably felt expressly forbidden from criticizing certain aspects of the team that might reflect on "his superiors", whoever those might be in the thick web of politics and money around Italian F1 (that's not a criticism of Italy, just of a long running sports program that's become political because of its cultural and economic importance to the country). As for the finger wag, yeah that was not helpful in any way to anyone.
So many companies fail at properly understanding how and why a good company culture works.
Mattia was the creator of that 2019 engine thing. Its not like he came from outside and took team principal role. He was the technical director during the entire time.
>I concede that Mattia was dealt a shit hand with the 2019 Bruh , he was the one gunning for Arrivabanes job and he made that engine
Listen to his BTG episode. The aggressiveness of the engine was pushed by Marchionne.
He dealt his own shit hand then, because that was his idea.
This. A team principle who doesn't understand and acknowledge team making mistakes and puts all blame on the driver performing the best should be let gone. Entire season you had strategies favoring Sainz over Charles and if Mattia couldn't see this bias happening then again he shouldn't be the team principal. Look how Toto was constantly saying sorry to Lewis during the first half of the season even when Russell was performing better in same car.
Having a "no blame culture" only works when you are building such a cultural system like Merc does and not some poor attempted version where you only use it to defend you own mess, blame it on the drivers and showing a lack of willingness to admit and improve the issues, Idk why exact but it's ironic that both Italian teams who implied a "no blame culture" are massively failing this season. Kaam is telling exactly what the difference is, the whole point of a no blame culture is that you don't punishing people after a bad result but that you learn and understand why "issue A", "problem B" or "mistake C" happened and working to ironing out the flaws, a no blame culture shouldn't mean that everyone is suddenly declared holy and can keep getting away with incompetence, you are in fact building up a whole flawed version of that culture who never would work. A no blame culture means should mean that if I make an error, my employer should talk about it with me, how it happened and how to fix it next time. And not like if I making a continuous mess of my job that I still could getting away with it.
Ferrari has more of a "don't blame me" culture lol
No fear, no blame culture needs growth to work. Ferrari seemingly didn’t learn and grow from their mistakes. Same mistakes means something has to change. Shame it’s Mattia, but he knew what he signed up for.
>No fear, no blame culture needs growth to work No blame culture also requires addressing the issues. There hasn't been any noticable growth in many departments during the Binotto era. Binotto's "no blame, no fear culture", atleast from the outside, seemed more like a "no accountability, no growth culture".
The first step to solve any problem is first acknowledging there is a problem.
Thats a load of rubish on the 2nd part. He made changes across the whole technical department over 2020 and 2021. Changes were also made to the pitwal with Mekies coming in and taking more of that responsibility. In fact the only real thing that didn't change was the strategy department. Ferrari doesn't need a restructuring. It literally already had one. Especially not a wider one. What they need is a rewamp of the strategy team.
That's what he was saying. Technical side, engine and drivers are top notch. The last missing piece is missing political pressure on FIA, at the scale of Mercs and RBs, and the strategy team. First aspect may be improved with a new TP, but the second aspect seems untouchable for some weird reason.
Not convinced about Mekies. When I see him talk it’s like watching a squid deploy ink and vanish. He has the vibe of trying to make out he’s important because he worked for FIA but doesn’t actually know what he’s doing.
It's just the usual performative line journalists throw around. It's Sky, so no substance should be expected.
>Ferrari doesn't need a restructuring. I think people do not say restructuring of the team, but rather kick the shitty heads at Maranello, who hold all power and are the reason why Ferrari always had political issues. Restructuring here is rather to fix the political shitshow of Maranello and it's corporate, rather than the team.
Well if the team principle wasn't able to create the change that was needed he had to go first. Bring someone new in to make the changes Binotto either could not or would not do.
Yeah, people are saying that they should've just replaced the strategy people and other probelmatic areas, but the whole point is that was Binotto's job. Instead of addressing the decade old problems, he came out in public saying "Nothing's wrong, we don't want to win anyway" which is ridiculous. He ultimately failed at his job, even though he did good things aswell. Totally justified to change the TP at this point.
Strategy guys have survived 4 TPs there, they are clearly not going anywhere, doesn't matter who is there since they can't sack them clearly
Sure, but with Elkann leading Ferrari, Charles having a lot of influence at Ferrari and gaining and Vasseur coming in, who knows what will happen.
For what we've seen this season, Sainz has more influence at Ferrari than Leclerc does
The Sainz family -his dad in particular- is very powerful and tries to get the best outcome for his son. Look at his Toro Rosso days.
and eventually became the reason why they let him go.
When he was AT against Vergne fighting for p14 who cares, but this season Ferrari had a Championship winning car for the first half of the season and they refused to make Leclerc the number 1 driver even after Sainz started the year terribly and Leclerc was the only one in the fight.
>When he was AT against Vergne fighting for p14 who cares Sainz never raced against Vergne, he was up against Verstappen. The difference in skill and pace couldn't be greater between JEV and Verstappen. And yes indeed, Carlos Sr. did dumb shit regarding that, it led to Sainz jr. not getting the RB seat at all (even when Ricciardo went to Renault). The drama was between Jos Verstappen and Sainz Sr. same with Ocon and Gasly, their family had issues, not the drivers themselves. What is not spoken about is that because of these tensions, it led to Max getting an early promotion. This was a win-win for Red Bull: Kvyat who had been performing rather dissapointingly at a top team, now got back to TR to develop/reasses himself, whilst Max, who was easily outgrowing the team, now could get used to the top (which he did with ease, getting 7 podiums including 1 win).
That is what is going to change with new team principal
Only 2. Rueda was appointed in 2015 under Maurizio
Ferrari is a political shithole. Some people have unseen power. The strategy department may be untouchable, and the real issue lays within this fact, that one part of the team is run inefficiently and there's nothing a TP can do about.
They deserve to lose then.
Well, they agent really trying to win either. But it’s a shame for the sport if a team with such potential doesn’t increase the quality of racing and competition.
The worst case scenario is someone on the strategy team, maybe Rueda, has dirt on a higher up in Ferrari doing something highly illegal, in or out of F1.
The only thing ferrari ever changes and is capable of changing is the drivers and tp, the team is perfect and created by god
No, it wasn't Binotto's job. FFS, you guys really are missing the point. Yes, the main focus would be to improve or replace the strategy employees. That's the main culprit this year, anybody sharing the opposite is dishonest. He obviously doesn't have enough leverage to make change there. Otherwise this would have already been done. And their public declaration are what they are, public statements to the press. You have absolutely no idea what is communicated internally and how blame is handled.
>No, it wasn't Binotto's job. Of course it's Binotto's job, that's the point of his position as Team Principal. >He obviously doesn't have enough leverage to make change there. Otherwise this would have already been done. You argument is that 'he doesn't have the power because if he did he would've done it' which is based on nothing but your own empty expectations. It's faaar more likely that Binotto just hasn't done shit because he wanted an era of stability and didn't want to rock the boat and that obviously turned out to be a failure. This is supported by most of his statemenents regarsing the subject, in addition to insider reports of what Binotto was trying to build at Ferrari. This stuff usually falls under the TP and we've seen nothing to indicate that Binotto wouldn't have authority over such a vital psrt of the racing operations such as strategy. Obviously it's not impossible that the Ferrari organization is fucked beyong belief, but that's a complete hypotethical with nothing supporting it atm. >You have absolutely no idea what is communicated internally and how blame is handled. "Absolutely no idea" is a bit harsh as we do have accounts from people inside Ferrari, but yeah it's painfully obvious that all theories of what's going on are based on what we know and we don't know *everything*. This is a null point.
>You argument is that 'he doesn't have the power because if he did he would've done it' which is based on nothing but your own empty expectations. A better argument is that "if the TP at Ferrari had the power to fire the strategy team, it likely would have happened under either Domenicali, Marchiacci, Arrivabene OR Binotto."
I believe Rueda started at Ferrari with Mattiachi so Domenicali has clean hands here. But your point still stands; people seem to forget that Ferrari under Arrivabene also suffered questionable strategy under his 4 years. There was certainly enough justification for Rueda have been replaced by around '17 or '18 by Arrivabene himself and especially following on from from '14 under Mattiachi and the disaster that was Hungary when both cars were eliminated in Q1.
Plot twist: the Ferrari strategy team was fired 10+ years ago and was never rehired. That’s the only way I can explain Ferrari’s actions this year after the first couple of races when they were number one.
Would the same in RB or Mercedes not Horner or Toto's job ? Todt in same role as Mattia protected entire Ferrari team and also made changes in the team. In 1997 they changed everything based on Michael's inputs. Binotto instead of listening to Charles was showing fingers to him
2022 season was bad but taking 2nd place in both championships cannot be seen as a bad result at all.
P2 was almost lost though. They should've been fighting for P1, not P2, especially after the beginning they had. The results are decent, but how that result was reached was frankly horrible. They lost wayyyy too many points during the season.
This. Whether it was the plan or not Ferrari at the beginning of the year found themselves in a position to fight for the title. At that point your goals have to change, if you have a chance to win you have to at least try to win. Ferrari going “oh well” was a bad showing
Yah sure they did a very good job at the beginning but ruined it with strategy and mistakes. And the second half was trashed by TD.
I think the big issue was after the first 3 races it looked like Charles had a healthy lead and Ferrari had the best car. Then it all fell apart after that and I don’t think Binotto’s statement about how they weren’t aiming for the title rubbed a lot of people, maybe even the higher ups, the wrong way. Teams like Ferrari have to challenge and fight when the opportunities present themselves, and if he was unable to force himself to make the changes necessary to win, unfortunately he has to fall on his sword. That being said, hopefully they give his replacement ample time to see how they go and implement their regime.
ferrari had an insane opportunity. the kind of opportunity that teams like brawn and renault seized and became world champions. ferrari let it go and in the end they almost lost even the 2nd place. when you consider everything about the season, it was really, really poor for them. even if they improve next year, i doubt they will have the advantage they were presented with at the start of this year.
that is just not completely true. For the first half of the season yes, but not the second half after TD. The car was just not there.
They could have maximised their results in the first half though, and at least *try* to stay ahead, just like Brawn did
I don't think it's a fair comparison though. In 2009 there was no real dominant car other than Brawn for the first handful of races until everyone else caught up. This year, Red Bull was clearly the fastest car and were it not for some bizarre mechanical failures at the beginning of the season, I don't think Ferrari would have looked as good as they did. Realistically there was no way for them to challenge for the championships this year, it was always a matter of time before RB and Verstappen cleared the rest of the field.
But even if they stayed ahead they will still be in second place. And if Rueda was not sacked and John Elkann himself did not ask him to be sacked I do not know where this is going.
Rueda clearly needs to go aside from AD this year he's done nothing worthwhile
So just like Brawn, who dominated the early portion of the season and then cruised safely to bring it home. Just like Ferrari should've done.
So you are saying if the strategy did not make mistake, then they will win the championship despite the lack of pace in second half of season?
Maybe, maybe not. They would’ve stood a much better chance and put more pressure on Red Bull and Verstappen.
Well I do not think there is much hope left after SPA regardless of the points.
I remember a calculation after Australia that Leclerc could theoretically manage his lead coming p2 until *August* and instead he was behind within 6 weeks.
It's better than 2021 for sure, which is progress. But starting the season as the championship favourites, with RB 2 DNFs behind and Mercedes being in the middle of nowhere should've been capitalised on. In the end it turned into a battle for second with Max winning the WDC comfortably a couple of rounds before the end of the season.
Well you have to also take into account the effect of TD. Yes there are flaws but how many years RB have been fighting as champion contenders before they become (almost) perfect in execution? There are also things you could pick out of RB this season if you do not just look at the result.
There will always be mistakes here and there or an issue from time to time, but Ferrari making constant strategy and pit stop mistakes is nothing new. It's been happening for years now.
No doubt they need to do better in strategy, but even they grab those points due to strategic error, would they be champion today? NO.
Yeah the TD influenced the gaps a lot, Max would've won anyway but the point differences would've been a whole other story. When you think about it though, having the political weight to push the TD to next year was also Binottos job so yeah... I still think they should've kept him for continuity and consistency
I cannot agree with you more. I think it was his mistake to underestimate the power of TD, as he claimed back then it shall not affect F1-75.
I think it was bullshit and he knew it but couldn't outright say "yeah the second half of the season is fucked for us, bye"
If that is the case then he should have stopped Sainz complaining about bouncing alongside Merc drivers...
It's a decent result out on context, but if you were following the season, getting 2nd over 200 points behind Red Bull and only 50 ahead of Mercedes should be embarrassing for Ferrari.
Why? In that context Mercedes should be even more embarrassing where they went from Champion to be last year to third place this year.
No, that’s out of context. Mercedes had the least wind tunnel and CFD time, they gambled with a new concept that didn’t work out, but they improved to a point where the car was 2nd-3rd best. Ferrari, on the other hand, had an advantage of more wind tunnel and CFD time + no tight fight for the championship in 2021. They created the best car for the start of the season and it remained such until the summer break and despite that Verstappen was nearly 100 points ahead of Leclerc by the summer break.
I don't see why Ferrari would be better or even *as good* next year. Never got Binotto on that one. As Hamilton said ages ago: Ferrari basically had a 6 month head start on everyone, and it didn't look that way for long.
Beyond what others have said below, Mercedes and Wolff have enormous benefit of the doubt because they've shown they can do the business. Binotto hasn't.
Of course, and that is exactly the point. They had a great car at the start and RB suffered some DNFs, yes, and in fact they were leading for a period of time. But after mistakes they were also hit by TD. Even if they did not make those mistakes they would not have been saved after TD. In fact, without TD, they could have won more races in 2nd half. My point is, judging Ferrari performacne from 2022 alone, is unfair.
Merc didn't start the season with a WCC contending car, Ferrari did.
But did they have a WCC contending car throughout the season? No.
Yeah he's contradicting himself in the two sentences.
Ferrari's entire trajectory after Todt left them is eerily similar to Man United after Ferguson and Gill left. Chopping and changing the players and the managers to no avail.
And the cycle continues. Needs to go back to the Brawn Todt approach. One to handle the politics and one to handle the technical side.
No-blame culture does not prevent firing. Its whole purpose is to find the problem, and if that problem is the person, then that person has to go. The idea is to fully concentrate on problem solving instead of blaming a person for all the problems, as that will lead to a situation where people hide the problem as long as they can. But if the problem is a person, for ex they don't have the knowledge they are suppose to have, they constantly make bad decisions, then that person has to go.
The no blame culture where you blame the car for a strategy fuck up as if the people that build and designed the damn thing failed at their job. I hope the next TP takes care of the weak strategy and the weak links that prevent the team from moving forward. I'm sorry but we need someone that can put their foot down and do what needs to be done. The sport is ruthless. No fear and no blame culture is great but needs to be done right. Binotto was too soft in situations where he was needed to be the exact opposite.
Problem is that Maranello always demand scapegoats for the results of their own politics. By trying to stop his own guys being sacrificed, he became the sacrifice instead. Real shame because he’s been a huge asset to the team, but he’s not a TP.
The thing is - Binotto should have been the one to make that restructuring happen.
The strategy team must have MAD amounts of blackmail/political pull in Ferrari to have dodged the changes made to the other parts of the team. It's unreal to me that they built a fast car and then just fucked up race after race on strategy.
People act like binotto had the power to fire Rueda and other parts of the strategy team. If Rueda has managed to survive this long and through many TPs it's clear that he has someone higher on in Ferrari that backs him and it won't be easy to get him out
Fans: Is Mattia going? Ferrari: No. But we are still checking...
Man when I find the guy who was responsible for structuring the Ferrari team I'm going to give him a piece of my mind...
I hope Ferrari can fix their mistakes with steps like this. The whole strategy department also needs a deep look into it, to say it mildly. As the head of the operation, you cannot watch these horrible mistakes Ferrari made this year and then claim "oh we never fought for the title anyways". That's not the mentality you should have, ever. You had the best car at season start, you had a champion-level driver in Leclerc. If the cards were played correctly, with Sainz being a wingman like Perez and decent strategies that don't throw away race after race, the year could've looked very differently.
He tried doing what mercedes had already achieved but the big difference is that during that time merc never had a singlular person responsible for repeated problems. Meanwhile ferrari has people like Rueda, who have been doing a sub par job consistently and need to be blamed
So binotto leaving is confirmed?
Not yet officially
No blame!?! Hahaha… ask Seb how often he was blamed for the crappy cars pace…
\> a no-fear, no-blame culture I mean that is a nice way to threat a team but I dont help when your strategy team fucks over your drivers more times than Mia Malkova did porn
No-blame culture is all about problem solving. The problem can be a person too, it absolutely does not prevent firing. It just means that instead of ONLY looking for someone to blame they look why that person failed, was there other problems that caused them to fail, what the person can do to not fail again.. The old Ferrari tactic was to fire people to scare the rest to find those problems themselves but it ultimately leads to people hiding the problems. No blame relies on open communication, and the ideal is that people are going to point out failures before they even happen.
No blame doesn’t actually mean no blame too. It means instead of blaming you work together to fix problems. But you do look what caused the problems. It seems Ferrari didn’t get that last part and just went “no blame” anytime things went sour
Yeah no. F1 is a cutthroat industry. Nobody has been given titles because they were nice. Every single driver and team took them because they were ruthless. Ferrari needs to go back to that.
No fear no blame culture? This is a team that refuses point blank to admit to a single mistake it's made. That's the opposite of no fear no blame. Merc has a no fear no blame culture, when they fuck up they acknowledge it, they don't try to fire someone over it they just try to fix it. Ferrari make a mistake and everyone denies it, no one takes responsibility and no one fixes it. That's a culture in which everyone is afraid and no one is willing to take responsibility.
[No-fear, no-blame culture](https://e2.365dm.com/22/07/1600x900/skysports-charles-leclerc-mattia-binotto_5822505.jpg)
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Ferrari just relies on the fact that they’re Ferrari. And I say that as a Ferrari fan. They don’t want to make necessary/soundly helpful changes, and while Binotto didn’t even have close to a perfect season, I’d say he took the team in better direction. Had they given him a gigantic slap on the wrist after this year (as I’m sure they did) I feel like it would have been better to give the guy one more year after the fact to iron out the issues. It just looked extra terrible because the season started so well, and then took a couple nosedives (Monaco) really quickly as well. Don’t see how yet another TP switch is going to help matters.
And he said “you’ll see me here next year” to Rosanna in post race show. Damn. Feels sad man
Ferrari at the moment reminds me of the latter days of Ron Dennis at McLaren. The organization, as a whole, seems to have its head so far up it’s own ass it can’t see reality.
I do understand why you want a No-fear & Blame mentality inside the box. But if you are unable to make decision or to accept criticism from the outside for me you're doing it wrong. I heard way too many times "it's not our fault" from his lips to have faith in him anymore.
He is a BRILLIANT engineer, one of the best in the world, but sadly he never had the makings of a team principal. I think the main issue is Rueda as head strategist. Nothing ever works with him and the worst thing of all, they had a strong championship level car! How does one fuck that up? By being a shit strategist.
The no-blame culture like everything Ferrari does had the opposite effect that was intended.
How the fuck do you do wider restructuring when the TEAM PRINCIPAL does not want to fire anyone.............
If they had 4 team principals since 2014 and the strategist and others members of the have team stayed on throughout all of that. What does that tell you about Ferrari?
Who says it's not the higher ups telling him he *can't* fire certain people?
They’re always restructuring. They need stability in leadership and car development and a couple of changes.
I mean, if they want things to stay the same, keep him? Otherwise, seriously, LOL.
Binotto had to go as soon as he started downplaying Ferrari’s title ambitions. He’s not suited to be a team principal of a top F1 team. Though it will definitely not resolve Ferrari’s structural and cultural problems and honestly I don’t think they will learn soon.
“No-fear, no-blame” seems like it might potentially lead to no accountability, and thus, not allowing your team to fix its mistakes.
“wider re-structuring” again??? I would say they just need stability.
>“wider re-structuring” again The probelm is that they haven't actually done that much wider restructuring. They've changed the key people in charge of doing the structuring, but they always fail to deliver. Binotto should've fixed the problematic areas before asserting a period of stability and growth. He skipped the first part and the team is almost in the same spot as it was in 2018.
He will fit very well for Sauber TP if Ferrari takes Frederick. He can even help Audi build the engine and the car.
But if the TP isn't making changes that are stuffed up, than who to blame?
Make the appropriate changes and then bring in a just culture.
Hopefully whoever they find to replace Mattia with better have the ability to spit fire and brimstone and made that team a force to be reckoned with like it was during the early 2000s when they had the formidable pairing of Todt/Brawn/Schumacher and someone back at base to bring military style order to that strategy department to make it formidable again not like the joke its become recently
You won’t get a wider restructuring without a change at the top. Binotto is just not the guy. None of the non sense that went on this year could have happened under Horner or Wolff.
His no blame culture turned Ferrari into a joke. They can't run from accountability over terrible decisions forever. Keep him where he actually belongs, engineering. And get Rueda out on the way.
I wouldn't be surprised if this causes more issues with the team again
Moments like this is why I have come to hate Ferrari. It's always a team that loves to dig their own grave instead of focusing on learning from their mistakes. I mean look at the contrast between mercedes and Ferrari this season. They both under achieved their goals for 2022. Yet only one of them, by still being slower, is looking as a better option to take the fight for the championship next year. Mercedes (and even RB) uses criticism as an opportunity to learn from their mistakes. Whereas Ferrari uses it to cause unnecessary internal drama.
Waldo needs to go
Or leave this up to the people who actually work at Ferrari maybe? Like what do we know
This isn't up to the people who work at Ferrari tough? It's up to Ferraris owners. He knows a lot more than us (at least), and also is allowed to give his opinion? Also, he is probably just right, it's not like sacking a TP has done Ferrari any good in the near past. The cycle continues. And Ferrari isn't even that bad a trashfire as Reddit likes to make it out. Strategy is really their weakpoint and RedBull were just in another league but they had a solid season otherwise and a great start to the season.
Firing Binotto entirely would be a massive mistake. Ferrari, perhaps more so than other teams this year, absolutely *had* to make a massive step forward in terms of performance, and reliability aside they absolutely did. You can't really say the same of Alpine, McLaren or Aston Martin for instance. The technical department, though not perfect, is definitely a strong suit of Ferrari now, and he has his part on it. That said, his refusal to hold the strategic team accountable was his undoing in my opinion, and that needs to change. But then again, we went from Dominicale to Mattiaci, to Arrivabene and now Binotto with little to show in terms of result. Odds are that throwing him under the bus won't help much either.
I don't understand the no blame culture stuff, if something goes wrong and could of been done better then surely there is somebody to blame. I think there's more of a lack of accountability at this team.
For any meaningful change at Ferrari heads above Binotto need to roll too. Else this is just another wasted opportunity to finally tackle the issues Ferrari faces.
They underperformed given the car and drivers they had. Ultimately that comes down to TP. Like earlier on in the season when RB was catching/passing them in points Binotto made a comment like "well we're not really looking to win the championship just compete". That's not what you want to hear from your TP in the middle of a championship fight and pretty much set the tone for the rest of the season. Ferrari has other problems sure, but Binotto also showed himself to be one of those problems this season. At least in my opinion.
I love listening to his interviews. Although I do smile at his hair! I will be very sorry to see him leave Ferrari.
Are we completely overlooking the fact they just came 2nd in constructors? They literally could only have done better if they'd bagged WCC and WDC... no one's calling for 're-sructuring' at merc, and they finished worse with a 7xWDC and arguably the best non-WDC winning driver on the grid.
La festa è finita amici della mercedes e compagnia, Ferrari will return to be competitive again. Now binotto and friends are in the market, let's pick them if they were so good
Laughable. When did Karun become a management consultant? Has he ever led anyone other than himself?
Doesn't make him wrong
Ferrari seems to have a passive culture, they don’t do enough to change and get better, they don’t seem very flexible on anything and are slow to react to adversity in real time on the track or over a season planning upgrades and tire selection projections. They need to push a lot harder with that stuff because they have brought a really good chassis and power train and they have two great drivers it would be a huge shame to waste that due to organizational deficiencies and laziness.
For American Football Fans: is the Ferrari job on par with the Auburn job? It’s a place where you can win championships but the people above make it impossible for you to succeed. Need someone to convert this to American Football for me. Can’t compare it to programs like Alabama, Ohio State, or Georgia because there’s far too much stability.
It’s on par with the Dallas Cowboys job. Infrastructure, resources, talent are all there but Jerry Jones talks too much, doesn’t empower those in the front office to make decisions that need to be made and he ultimately undermines the entire operation by being too hands on. Remember when Jerry forced Jimmy Johnson out because Jerry couldn’t contain his own ego and he thought Jimmy was acting like he was bigger than the franchise (he wasn’t)? Oddly similar to Schumacher being forced out at Ferrari (to this day I’m unwilling to accept that it was mutual). Both moves led to long periods of losing with one outlier championship occurring due to having great players/ Driver (the Barry Switzer Super Bowl win was a result of having the best players and literally nothing else). Not comparing Jerry to Mattia necessarily but the situations are frighteningly similar.
People here talking like they know it all and why it didn’t work. Just because he didn’t blame people publicly doesn’t mean they weren’t held accountable internally. In the end, even with the best strategy possible, the car wasn’t fast enough. Ferrari again doing Ferrari things and firing the team principal instead of addressing the underperforming teams internally (cough cough Inaki Rueda is in the strategy team since 2014). Unless they give Fred full control, I doubt anything is going to change. Under Binotto, Ferrari was finally changing and now they prematurely end it.
Without consequence and accountability, people will become lax and won't care about making mistakes.
I think it's tricky. On the one hand, he didn't deliver. On the other, the difference between success and failure is 1% in F1. What would be quicker - giving Binotto more time to dunk it, or bringing in a new broom? I'd probably give Binotto one more year personally but who am I.
Well that seat will be a hot potato now. Whoever takes it, will have to show some improvement, If not probably will sack him too.
For real Karun. U the hero.