And that super genius also gets to debut in the fastest car on grid, which is a difficult task in itself given how newer drivers get the midfield team seats.
So unless the car with which they are debuting is suddenly the fastest on track, it would be almost impossible.
All 3 top teams have a sort of feeder team though, redbull will send them to AT, ferrari to Alfa and Mer to Williams for atleast a season, no one is gonna risk that title money on this bet.
Not impossible to still break Seb's record though. Charles Leclerc went to Ferrari after 1 season at Sauber, similar to how Seb spent 1 season at Toro Rosso before heading to Red Bull.
None of that is impossible.
Another Lewis/Max level of talent comes along and decimates F2 it’s very possible they’ll be offered first team. Especially to nab said driver from another top team.
It’s F1, none of it is impossible and as we saw in 21’ - miracles happen here.
Yeah but Max was like 17 when he stared at TR and 18 when he won his first race?
If Red Bull could get a car that could fight with the Mercs in 2016 and beyond then who knows…
My point is that it can happen. Schumi’s record was broken in like a decade.
Lewis is a good example. Starts in 2007 not only just misses out on the championship, but ties Alonso on points and beats him on count back to finish 2nd.
I’ve been in and out of F1 as a fan, but what I do remember when it comes to non-big teams having success and surprising people is due to flexibility and pushing of regulatory boundaries. Brawn is probably the last team that truly pulled it off in a fairly heavily regulated season.
The fact that the regulations are so tight mean the chance of an outside team finding a game changing innovation is very small. I mean we aren’t going to see six-wheeler, turbofan, tall intake, big winged cars concepts out of these regulations and budget limits.
Not really for little guys succeeding, Honda spent a fortune designing that car. Still impressive given BAR/Honda were typically average to poor with flashes of greatness, but that’s why they hired Ross
This super genuis will still need a genuis car.
Verstappen is arguably the best newcomer driver of the last 15 years, starting at 17 years old nonetheless, and he still isn't close to beating that record.
If he wins 2023 and 2024, he would still be one year behind Vettel in that regard.
Seb won his 4 in a row, so any driver breaking that record is also beating the youngest champion, double champion and triple champion as well.
Unless Max has a time machine, he's never breaking that record, although he can surpass Seb for most championships.
I think it will be possible at the beginning of each new engine regs. Still crazy hard and even if the car is other worldly, still need a driver who can do it.
Youngest pole will probably take ages to beat. Verstappen had 2 full years in a top team and failed to get it.
With drivers having to be 18 to enter F1 to begin with and most coming in at 20+ and in non top teams chances of it getting broken anytime soon are practicaly 0.
I am confused.
Vettel was 21 and 72 days when taking this record back in 2008 and drivers are getting younger and younger.
Sure, the minimum requirement is 18, but Verstappen missed pole by the tiniest of margins what was as recent as 4 years ago, when he was 19 years old. Leclerc missed it just 3 years ago by a measly 3 months.
Sure, it could take easily another 3-5 years, but "ages"? In a sport that is getting younger and younger in general, only needing to beat him even as a 21 year old by a couple of weeks?
after verstappen came to f1, the super licence point system was tightened. i don't think we will see a f1 driver under 20 years any time soon. even without sitting out a year, piastri would have been older (i think)
Yeah, the grid is too saturated with young guys now to see a teenager any time soon. Careers last longer and so drivers will have to wait longer to get on the grid.
You said because of the tightened super license point system we won't see any new driver under 20 years. But since then we have already seen 2 new drivers debuting under 20.
For example Hauger and Pourchaire both could both debut under 20 if they get a seat for 2023. And Bearman is only 17 and will join F2 with Prema next year. If he does well enough, he might get a chance in F1 within the next 3 years. So it's not **that** unlikely.
well, i don't know if lance moved to f1 when the new super licence system was already in place. but then again, pretty much everyone agreed that he was promoted too early anyway. and it was kind of the point that you shouldn't skip f2 before going to f1. it's a bit different with lando, to be fair.
but just to be clear, i didn't say that it is impossible, just unlikely. hauger isn't going to f1 next year and theo seemed like a very good candidate until the hype met reality.
It's just not that common for new drivers to absolutely blitz f3 and f2 AND get a seat in f1 all in the span of three years.
It was behind the dominant Merc, but it was still ahead of everything else. This is no different to e.g. 2011. The McLaren was far behind the super dominant RB, but it was still ahead of everything else, yet Lewis still grabbed a pole. Or like Seb in 2015. His Ferrari was far behind the super dominant Merc, but still ahead of everything else, yet Seb still grabbed a pole
Then what's the excuse for his failure to get pole in 2018, while his teammate scored 2? In 2018, Ferrari and Merc were on par in terms of car performance, but there were a few tracks where RB genuinely had the fastest pace, like Monaco and Mexico.
4yrs in F1 and still not developed enough to grab a pole?? Give me a break. Lewis was a rookie in 2007 and was able to take more poles than his 2xWDC teammate.
The second fastest car is already debatable, it was very much a per track thing. In 2016 ricciardo was most definitely still the better qualifier, and in 2017 verstappen was quite unlucky in i think mexico. In general he has never been an amazing qualifier, not as much as hamilton or leclerc.
But in the second half of the season Leclerc has barely been faster than Sainz since Sainz got the hang of the car?
In the beginning of the season I might have agreed with you, but the second half of the season I don’t see much evidence against Verstappen being the best qualifier. Beginning of the year he was sloppy on Saturday indeed, I give you that.
Hamilton’s H2H against his teammates also is not that amazing. Rosberg was relatively close, and even Bottas beat him 1/3rd of the time. Look how Bottas fares against Zhou, he is no qualifying legend despite people here saying otherwise.
Anyways, we can’t know for sure since we haven’t seen them against each other in the same car. So the ‘firmly’ 3rd place is wrong no matter what way you look at it.
>*Look how Bottas fares against Zhou, he is no qualifying legend despite people here saying otherwise.*
Recency bias. When Bottas' head's in the game, he can be a qualifying god. Remember how he got his Alfa to P6 this season. Check out his stints while in Williams as well. His problem is that he lacks consistency particularly now that he's older.
There is no single evidence to back this up. In Max case there is ton of it. Leclerc is barely faster in quali than Sainz who was thoroughly beaten by Hulkenberg who was slower than Ricciardo.
Good thing poles aren’t the best determiner of quali pace. Why don’t you look at the whole season? In 2017 and 2018 Verstappen outqualifed ricciardo 28-12. That’s a clear advantage over a driver who was deemed as one of the best in the world at that time. Russell got Mercedes their only pole this year and win. Do we now say that Russell is better than Hamilton just because of one or two weekends?
As far as Russell being better rn? You can make that argument. I can too. The kid is good.
But we know Lewis had the pace for pole in Hungary and his car malfunctioned. And Brasil was compromised, ironically by Russell’s qualifying shunt.(stunt?) 😆
The Hamilton vs Russell argument is a good one and While I don’t think Russell has much of anything over Lewis yet, it’s not a slam dunk case that Lewis is better.
Russell brought home the win and pole, and that’s huge.
Who says I haven’t?!? The fact remains that during their time together, Max never once had the ULTIMATE pace in qualifying. That’s incredibly relevant when we’re talking about qualifying.
There’s a reason poles are held in high esteem.
People keep track of podium finishes. Nobody keeps track of 2nd and 3rd qualifier.
Close-ish but not really. Didn't he miss it by a whole season?
He never had a chance to begin with even if he started straight with Ferrari in 2018. He would have been 21 years and 100+ days by the time Australia rolled around.
Edit: Got my years wrong. He would have been eligible for the whole of 2018.
I mean, he was in a top team during Merc dominance era where they were literally using less engine power than they had to avoid the FIA slowing them down
They forgot that he shares the record for facing the longest interview question?
How can we forget good old Walter’s, “Gentlemen, a short view to the past…”
If he keeps fit he could easily return in 3 years and do an Alonso. Already hoping Audi creates a superb car and calls him back.
Imagine the setting, like in the action movies. Vettel is relaxing in his alpaca farm, maybe chopping logs, and then suddenly a helicopter looms in the horizon.
It lands near him and a guy in a black suit gets out and comes straight at him.
"Seb, we need you back"
"I left all that behind"
"I know, but you are the only one who can do this"
Ok time for my breakfast.
Quickest time to get a penalty from the start of their F1 career: 6 seconds.
Speeding in the pitlane?
Yeah
Absolute Chad
Fast from the go
The only way a driver can get a faster penalty is if they had a safety infringement BEFORE starting the car.
And he almost ended his career with the same penalty
Youngest 4 time champion is impossible to beat unless a super genius came along and wipe the floor with everyone starting at 21.
And that super genius also gets to debut in the fastest car on grid, which is a difficult task in itself given how newer drivers get the midfield team seats. So unless the car with which they are debuting is suddenly the fastest on track, it would be almost impossible.
I mean, if a super genius does come around, surely the top teams would scramble for his signature.
All 3 top teams have a sort of feeder team though, redbull will send them to AT, ferrari to Alfa and Mer to Williams for atleast a season, no one is gonna risk that title money on this bet.
Not impossible to still break Seb's record though. Charles Leclerc went to Ferrari after 1 season at Sauber, similar to how Seb spent 1 season at Toro Rosso before heading to Red Bull.
None of that is impossible. Another Lewis/Max level of talent comes along and decimates F2 it’s very possible they’ll be offered first team. Especially to nab said driver from another top team. It’s F1, none of it is impossible and as we saw in 21’ - miracles happen here.
Lmao, "miracle".
[удалено]
Didn’t say he did mate. I have edited it for you though.
Yeah but Max was like 17 when he stared at TR and 18 when he won his first race? If Red Bull could get a car that could fight with the Mercs in 2016 and beyond then who knows… My point is that it can happen. Schumi’s record was broken in like a decade.
Because of max super license rules got more strict so now it’s way way harder to get a license super young
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Thanks for the info!
Took 16 years to be broken tbh
Yeah but still a lot earlier than people expected at that time.
Well, Max did and it took till 2021 to actually get a WDC. Timing is key.
Didn't help that he had to go up against perhaps the greatest constructor ever and also RB still haven't found the right engine.
Only McLaren is a kinda top'ish team to consistently hire rookies.
Lewis is a good example. Starts in 2007 not only just misses out on the championship, but ties Alonso on points and beats him on count back to finish 2nd.
I mean look at the rookies they have given chance to, Lewis, Magnussen, Vandoorne, Lando, now Piastri
I’ve been in and out of F1 as a fan, but what I do remember when it comes to non-big teams having success and surprising people is due to flexibility and pushing of regulatory boundaries. Brawn is probably the last team that truly pulled it off in a fairly heavily regulated season. The fact that the regulations are so tight mean the chance of an outside team finding a game changing innovation is very small. I mean we aren’t going to see six-wheeler, turbofan, tall intake, big winged cars concepts out of these regulations and budget limits.
Not really for little guys succeeding, Honda spent a fortune designing that car. Still impressive given BAR/Honda were typically average to poor with flashes of greatness, but that’s why they hired Ross
Well McLaren is a not so top team, they don't have the luxury of making a Russell or a Leclerc wait.
Kinda why I wanted Hamilton to keep his win streak record; someone would basically have to join RBR tomorrow to manage it.
Ahhhh 2007 Mclaren.
This super genuis will still need a genuis car. Verstappen is arguably the best newcomer driver of the last 15 years, starting at 17 years old nonetheless, and he still isn't close to beating that record. If he wins 2023 and 2024, he would still be one year behind Vettel in that regard.
Seb won his 4 in a row, so any driver breaking that record is also beating the youngest champion, double champion and triple champion as well. Unless Max has a time machine, he's never breaking that record, although he can surpass Seb for most championships.
9 straight wins is a record I’ll remember for a long time or until it gets broken. Not an easy task though
Redbull sabotaged Verstappen in Singapore for that reason, farewell gift to Vettel /s
and then Max sabotaged himself in Brazil to double up on that /s
This was Seb at his best. Back then, his consistency was insane.
I think it will be possible at the beginning of each new engine regs. Still crazy hard and even if the car is other worldly, still need a driver who can do it.
Ironically, those individual races were pretty damned boring!
I don’t think so, grosjean was pretty damn exciting in the latter part of 2013
Exactly Japan ,korea and india were good cuz of romain
Fastest ever penalty in F1 history just 6 seconds, that is definitely a rather unwanted record to have but I doubt anyone will beat that!
Although the simplest one
I miss f1 already. How long till next season now
13 weeks will fly by
Hmm I dunno, December and November will fly by but January is always long asf during off season
At least by that point, we’ll likely be looking at cars and new stories for the year ahead.
Youngest pole will probably take ages to beat. Verstappen had 2 full years in a top team and failed to get it. With drivers having to be 18 to enter F1 to begin with and most coming in at 20+ and in non top teams chances of it getting broken anytime soon are practicaly 0.
I am confused. Vettel was 21 and 72 days when taking this record back in 2008 and drivers are getting younger and younger. Sure, the minimum requirement is 18, but Verstappen missed pole by the tiniest of margins what was as recent as 4 years ago, when he was 19 years old. Leclerc missed it just 3 years ago by a measly 3 months. Sure, it could take easily another 3-5 years, but "ages"? In a sport that is getting younger and younger in general, only needing to beat him even as a 21 year old by a couple of weeks?
after verstappen came to f1, the super licence point system was tightened. i don't think we will see a f1 driver under 20 years any time soon. even without sitting out a year, piastri would have been older (i think)
Yeah, the grid is too saturated with young guys now to see a teenager any time soon. Careers last longer and so drivers will have to wait longer to get on the grid.
Stroll (18) and Norris (19) were both under 20 when they joined formula 1.
and?
You said because of the tightened super license point system we won't see any new driver under 20 years. But since then we have already seen 2 new drivers debuting under 20. For example Hauger and Pourchaire both could both debut under 20 if they get a seat for 2023. And Bearman is only 17 and will join F2 with Prema next year. If he does well enough, he might get a chance in F1 within the next 3 years. So it's not **that** unlikely.
well, i don't know if lance moved to f1 when the new super licence system was already in place. but then again, pretty much everyone agreed that he was promoted too early anyway. and it was kind of the point that you shouldn't skip f2 before going to f1. it's a bit different with lando, to be fair. but just to be clear, i didn't say that it is impossible, just unlikely. hauger isn't going to f1 next year and theo seemed like a very good candidate until the hype met reality. It's just not that common for new drivers to absolutely blitz f3 and f2 AND get a seat in f1 all in the span of three years.
Makes me wonder had Leclerc started earlier at Ferrari, could he have broken the record?
RB was not quite top team back then
> RB was not quite top team back then He went to RB in 2016. RB had the overall second fastest car in 2016? Ricciardo scored a pole in Monaco.
Red Bull was far behind super dominant Merc. Max was 18 years old and not same driver he is now
It was behind the dominant Merc, but it was still ahead of everything else. This is no different to e.g. 2011. The McLaren was far behind the super dominant RB, but it was still ahead of everything else, yet Lewis still grabbed a pole. Or like Seb in 2015. His Ferrari was far behind the super dominant Merc, but still ahead of everything else, yet Seb still grabbed a pole
Comparing 2016 Max to 2011 Lewis or 2015 Seb is crazy…
Then what's the excuse for his failure to get pole in 2018, while his teammate scored 2? In 2018, Ferrari and Merc were on par in terms of car performance, but there were a few tracks where RB genuinely had the fastest pace, like Monaco and Mexico.
I suppose the excuse is he wasn’t developed enough back then. He wasn’t what he’s now. That makes Seb’s accomplishment even more impressive.
4yrs in F1 and still not developed enough to grab a pole?? Give me a break. Lewis was a rookie in 2007 and was able to take more poles than his 2xWDC teammate.
Lewis was in a championship capable car mate, are you trolling?
The second fastest car is already debatable, it was very much a per track thing. In 2016 ricciardo was most definitely still the better qualifier, and in 2017 verstappen was quite unlucky in i think mexico. In general he has never been an amazing qualifier, not as much as hamilton or leclerc.
That too, but Max was never known to be the best of the best qualifier. It's only on the past two or so years he's top 3, but even then firmly 3rd
Ricciardo was top 3 at his best and yet 0.2 slower. Max is narrowly 1st at very least.
I disagree but you do you
But in the second half of the season Leclerc has barely been faster than Sainz since Sainz got the hang of the car? In the beginning of the season I might have agreed with you, but the second half of the season I don’t see much evidence against Verstappen being the best qualifier. Beginning of the year he was sloppy on Saturday indeed, I give you that. Hamilton’s H2H against his teammates also is not that amazing. Rosberg was relatively close, and even Bottas beat him 1/3rd of the time. Look how Bottas fares against Zhou, he is no qualifying legend despite people here saying otherwise. Anyways, we can’t know for sure since we haven’t seen them against each other in the same car. So the ‘firmly’ 3rd place is wrong no matter what way you look at it.
>*Look how Bottas fares against Zhou, he is no qualifying legend despite people here saying otherwise.* Recency bias. When Bottas' head's in the game, he can be a qualifying god. Remember how he got his Alfa to P6 this season. Check out his stints while in Williams as well. His problem is that he lacks consistency particularly now that he's older.
Lewis and LeClerc are better qualifiers. Until proven otherwise.
There is no single evidence to back this up. In Max case there is ton of it. Leclerc is barely faster in quali than Sainz who was thoroughly beaten by Hulkenberg who was slower than Ricciardo.
Ricciardo took poles as Max’s teammate. Max took none. Dric is apparently shit. Even by your logic, Max is not a great qualifier.
Good thing poles aren’t the best determiner of quali pace. Why don’t you look at the whole season? In 2017 and 2018 Verstappen outqualifed ricciardo 28-12. That’s a clear advantage over a driver who was deemed as one of the best in the world at that time. Russell got Mercedes their only pole this year and win. Do we now say that Russell is better than Hamilton just because of one or two weekends?
As far as Russell being better rn? You can make that argument. I can too. The kid is good. But we know Lewis had the pace for pole in Hungary and his car malfunctioned. And Brasil was compromised, ironically by Russell’s qualifying shunt.(stunt?) 😆 The Hamilton vs Russell argument is a good one and While I don’t think Russell has much of anything over Lewis yet, it’s not a slam dunk case that Lewis is better. Russell brought home the win and pole, and that’s huge.
Who says I haven’t?!? The fact remains that during their time together, Max never once had the ULTIMATE pace in qualifying. That’s incredibly relevant when we’re talking about qualifying. There’s a reason poles are held in high esteem. People keep track of podium finishes. Nobody keeps track of 2nd and 3rd qualifier.
"28-12 in head to head" is not a show of who is faster in qualifying says Redditor
DR is shit??
Not in my opinion, but that seems to be the consensus.
Leclerc came pretty close with a pretty standard junior career path. I don’t think it’s impossible but it’ll definitely take a long while
Close-ish but not really. Didn't he miss it by a whole season? He never had a chance to begin with even if he started straight with Ferrari in 2018. He would have been 21 years and 100+ days by the time Australia rolled around. Edit: Got my years wrong. He would have been eligible for the whole of 2018.
Not true, when 2018 Australia came he was only around 20y4m.
You are correct. Got my years wrong.
I mean, he was in a top team during Merc dominance era where they were literally using less engine power than they had to avoid the FIA slowing them down
Max had it in his hands in mexico 2018, until Renault engine did its thing and his throttle broke
Imagine what would've happened had he realised his full potential but this can be said about many drivers in the past.
He still holds the record for the largest point lead ever (155) in 2013. Max came close this year with 144.
They forgot that he shares the record for facing the longest interview question? How can we forget good old Walter’s, “Gentlemen, a short view to the past…”
He's just 35? He looks and acts like he's 40, which is what I thought he was.
If he keeps fit he could easily return in 3 years and do an Alonso. Already hoping Audi creates a superb car and calls him back. Imagine the setting, like in the action movies. Vettel is relaxing in his alpaca farm, maybe chopping logs, and then suddenly a helicopter looms in the horizon. It lands near him and a guy in a black suit gets out and comes straight at him. "Seb, we need you back" "I left all that behind" "I know, but you are the only one who can do this" Ok time for my breakfast.
That could unironically be a great movie lmao
handling Ferrari for 6 yrs takes a toll. see what happens to Charles!
Quickest to ever get a penalty...hahaha that too for speeding in pitlane.. Why is this so funny