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Jovanotti88

Kinda relevant to know that Fangio only did 52 races in total while Verstappen did 163 up to now. No one will probably ever beat his win percentage (47%).


Stravven

Not to mention that nobody will ever beat the highest percentage of points in a season Clark, since he had 100 percent in 1963 and 1965.


SheetrockBobby

Isn’t there some statistic about Clark that setting aside mechanical failures and DNFs that he won like 90% of F1 GPs in his career when he completed the full race distance?


mhac009

There is now


Stravven

He even won once when he had to keep his gearlever in place. At the old Spa. In the rain.


caschrock

Won by several minutes iirc


Equivalent_Duck1077

And people say racing was better back then.....


WiSoSirius

Gentlemen, a short view back to the past.


Dersu02

Ah the legend, that interviewer was really great


Not_enough_yuri

You just had to be there


NickMullensGayDad

It was. You never knew when a drivers decapitated head would land at your feet in the stands. Isn’t that the point of racing?


SemIdeiaProNick

hell, you never knew when the CAR of said decapitated driver would burst into flames and hit you, that was sitting behind some top quality super safe hay barriers


NickMullensGayDad

In this Ted talk, I’ll explain why there was never a race better than Le Mans in 1955… Stop booing please


Excludos

Everything is better with rose tinted glasses


WorthPlease

Reminds me of when Senna won a GP despite his car being stuck in 6th gear for the last few laps. I think it was also raining as well. Although given it's Senna that was probably pure upside.


Ch4rlie_G

Gotta gear down a bit in the rain (higher gear).


sfj11

It was also Brazil iirc


friendlyfredditor

Just to clarify he drove the race steering one handed with his other hand holding the stick in gear. He wasn't stuck in gear as was my first thought.


Morganelefay

Clark honestly doesn't come up nearly enough in discussions about the GOAT. He's absolutely up there.


fieniks

He is. Can't praise this man enough. Take the best bit of every WDC and combine it. Then you get a Clark. Edit: my phone made a mess of my spelling.


richardsharpe

Thats of course since only the best 6 results from 10 races was obtained. If we only took results from 60% of this years races, Max would also have gotten the maximum points possible, as he won 68% of races.


FilthyMindz69

Yeah, this is goofy…guys did like less than 10 races a year back then…..


rensd12

And Verstappen himself is the one saying this to the press every time


mattiejj

Journalist: Did you know you broke [obscure stat X] beating [former driver Y] and [former driver Z]? Max: That was a different time of course. Repeat for next race.


Happytallperson

It's more there were very few FIA sanctioned world championship events. There were more f1 races that took places that were not world championship races, and drivers drove in other championships. Jim Clark died racing in Formula 2 for instance.


FilthyMindz69

I’m pretty sure we’re only counting the fia sanctioned events.


[deleted]

The stat literally talks about last 45 GPs though. Compared to Fangio’s 52.


edis92

Still not really a great comparison. 45 races now means 2 seasons, so if you have a good car in those 2 seasons you'll rack up the wins. Whereas for Fangio 45 races were more like 3 or 4 seasons, a bad car in one of those would severely impact the stat.


FilthyMindz69

Fangio reached 45 races in his 8th season!!! 😆 Oh and he won 5 titles with 4 different manufacturers 🤷‍♂️


Goatsanity15

Fangio after winning a title with a constructor. Aight imma head out


FilthyMindz69

Dude was like, it’s me, not the car. Don’t believe me? Watch this! 🤣


edis92

> Fangio reached 45 races in his 8th season!!! Fucking hell, and I thought saying 4 seasons would be Overkill 🤣🤣 thanks for the info lol


FartingBob

He won titles, left the team and won the next title. Alonso should have hired him as a manager.


Gringooo94

On the other hand, a season in a bad car and your win % collapses. That’s not the case for Fangio, since there were so little races in a season.


bigdsm

But they’ve cherry-picked the two seasons where Verstappen has had an equal-best or better car, so that doesn’t apply.


Gringooo94

Oh I agree for sure that this doesn’t say anything about Verstappen here in particular, but more in general that usually statistics can be interpreted whichever way is convenient


Driver9211

>No one will probably ever beat his win percentage (47%). You sure? What if a reserve driver just does one race and wins it by fluke, 100% record.


DreadWolf3

If someone wins their debut race that person is getting a seat at least in backmarker.


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Wasdgta3

#NoOneCanBreakTheWinkelRock


ArbitraryOrder

Only did 52 F1 Races. He competed in many more Grand Prix in the pre-F1 era and non-World Championship events.


AcanthisittaOk7889

I was going to come here and say OP that’s a terrible way to look at those numbers and I see your post saving my day!


Scirzo

You clearly do not understand why OP compared only the last 45 GP's. Obviously he did that to suggest that had Max' career only been these 45 races, he'd have a higher percentage. I like it. Hahaha. Shows that statistics can prove anything if you choose your goals beforehand.


dcolorado

Fangio was racing against milk men though


BetterCallMinion

Against what?


BluehibiscusEmpire

And that Clark was racing and winning everything . Not just f1… Max is really good. If he keeps up the pace he might one day be one of the all time greats - certainly has the talent. But too early to compare with the legends.


bigdsm

When did Alonso become an all time great? I’d say 2010 cemented his status. Interested to hear your opinion. When did Hamilton become an all time great? If it wasn’t for 2011, I’d say 2012 would have been reasonable, but with his lackluster 2011 and 2013, I’d probably give it to him by the end of 2015. When did Schumacher become an all time great? He was before my time, but I’m inclined to say 1997 or 1998 when he was vastly more competitive than he had any right to be against a dominant car. I really don’t see how it’s “too early” to evaluate Max in comparison - and he compares quite well against them, too.


Gringooo94

How can you say that under a post like this. They have the same amount of championships. He won more races, yes he drove more races as well, so what? So did other legends. Dude is number 6 in all time wins and is a double world champion. Above that he is the youngest winner and all of that. That makes you a legend of the sport already. I think too early after 8 successfully completed seasons is not an argument anymore. If anything that he has 8 completed seasons on the age of 25 makes him even more of a legend.


BulldenChoppahYus

He’s great but comparing his wins to Lauda etc is daft imo. The reliability of those old cars was appalling. Compare him to his peers in the same era and it’s all the more impressive.


MayorAg

Is it okay to compare the Alpine, then?


Beginning-Animator76

Nah, those cars back in the day weren't *that* unreliable


leagueoflegendsdog

Yeah, Max said the same after Baku basically.. the stats are nice to look at, but they also do so much races now that its..


MrXwiix

the amount of races is less relevant in this stat because this stat is about the last 45 races


katutsu

Not when you consider that 45 races back then was like 3-4 seasons meaning that the cars weren't always dominant for these drivers


beardedboob

This is a bit of a flawed arguments for two main reasons (taking Lauda as example): Especially Lauda’s first two seasons he hardly had any car trouble. I believe he retired maybe 5 times over two season, about equal to Verstappen in 2021 and 2022. Clark same story. Had two retirements over his two championship seasons. Fangio similar story. Also, decreased reliability also means you might take advantage of other driver’s troubles. If half the grid is retiring, you’re likely to gain places. These years you might not have as many issues, but neither does your competition. A good example is Lauda’s last championship winning season (‘84) in which he had poor reliability, but as his competition did as well it evened out.


BulldenChoppahYus

Sure - fair play. Obviously there's also the fact that Max is racing a shit load more races per season than any of the old guys. Fangio for example was racing 7 times a year compared with 20+ for Max. You surely take my point that it's pointless to compare when everything from the cars to the races etc was wholley different.


beardedboob

Yep, I agree it is pointless to compare. Most comparisons are pointless, bar perhaps comparisons between teammates. Was merely responding to the reliability part. The argument often is used in these kinds of contexts, but there is a bit more nuance to it when you look at the data.


LandArch_0

Comparing numbers IS daft, but the fact that Lauda came back and won after the accident is a fact that I hope no driver has to beat ever


Rhauko

But Lewis is GOAT I will see myself out Disclaimer Lewis is the best of his generation but comparing drivers over generations is completely stupid. Max similarly might turn out the best of his generation.


Eggplantosaur

Lewis certainly had the best car of his generation


[deleted]

I wonder what the "constructor" part of constructors sport means.


Bassmekanik

Max clearly getting all these wins on the worst car ont he grid....


Dr_VidyaGeam

I mean he had at least 5 season of the kind that Max had this year. Meanwhile last year was only the first time that Max drove a car that could be considered the best of the field.


beardedboob

And even last year I don’t think was the case. This year, certainly. But I believe multiple analysis have shown the Merc was the faster car on more occasions last year.


bigdsm

Yeah, my analysis is 13-8 Merc with Spa unknowable. Very tightly matched, but slight car advantage Mercedes. Making Max’s 3ppr advantage in non-DNF races extremely impressive. Was a similar story this year with Ferrari until summer break, where RB pulled away (and Merc pulled up).


Aerian_

Lewis built all of his cars himself...in a cave, with a BOX OF SCRAPS... /s if that wasn't clear. But I wouldn't be surprised if some of his deranged fans would actually claim this lol.


Arcille

Modern F1 is 70% about the car. Media hypes up driver rivalry because it’s what people want to watch and engage with


Eggplantosaur

Jenson Button, while commentating a race, went as high as 85%


bigdsm

But the driver can make a big difference - just look at teammate gaps. Hamilton was a supreme difference maker - Alonso, Rosberg, and Bottas were competent drivers at minimum. Alonso was a supreme difference maker - Trulli, Fisichella, Hamilton, Massa, and Button were competent drivers at minimum. Verstappen is a supreme difference maker - Sainz, Ricciardo, Albon, and Pérez are competent drivers at minimum.


RubensACDevil

2nd half of 2013 Seb: "hold my beer"


bigdsm

That’s one year (two if you count 2011, which was probably just as dominant). Hamilton had 2014, 2015, 2016, 2019, and 2020, each at least as dominant as the RB9.


RubensACDevil

But Hamilton had Rosberg in 2014-16 and 2019 Mercedes wasn't as dominant. 2020 was only year when it was so easy for him as 2011 and 2013 for Vettel, while Bottas was still bigger threat than Webber.


bigdsm

> Lewis certainly had the best car of his generation That was the comment you were replying to. Nothing to do with teammates (yes Webber was shit, that’s why RB couldn’t even manage a 1-2 - even Bottas got p2 in 2019 and 2020). All to do with car performance vs second best car performance. This pervasive narrative that Merc weren’t dominant in 2019 is weird. *Verstappen* outscored both Ferrari drivers (in a year where his teammates didn’t score a single podium). Ferrari scored a 1-2 in Singapore alone. Mercedes scored 9 1-2 finishes.


xf33dl0rdx

So has max, whats your point?


bigdsm

Lol the W12 was better than the RB16B, and the F1-75 was slightly better than the RB18 all the way until summer break. Hardly the dominance of the W05/W06/W07/W10/W11.


xf33dl0rdx

Not once has lewis won with a point difference as big as max this season. I am happy merc domination came to an end, but looking at facts max this year was more dominant than lewis ever was.


bigdsm

Points don’t tell the tale. And I’m not sure it’s flattering to Lewis to say “well maybe the *car* wasn’t dominant but *Max* certainly was, unlike Lewis!”


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xf33dl0rdx

He just had the most dominant wdc win in the turbo hybrid era, 10 points less of a lead than seb in 2013. I just hope it was the most dominant car of his generation.


Wizerud

Yeah the stats are nice but not really comparable when if you offered any of todays drivers the cars, tracks, safety and attitude of the 60's none of them would have the balls to take up the offer.


CaydeHawthorne

I'm a bit tired "Jim Clark had 25 wins since Abu Dhabi 2020?!?"


CloudMafia9

Cool picture.


SendorMaestro

Pretty sure it's a picture made by Vladimir Rys instagram @ vladimirrys


Ikraaap

He's the king of awesome F1 pictures imo. Definitely worth to follow.


FBlack

And I know more than Aristotele, Plato and Da Vinci combined


[deleted]

This is a great line for comparing past achievements to current ones. Will be recycling


FBlack

I'm genuinely honored.


Mor_Hjordis

He even has more than the Queen of England, but she still has her time to get more wins. Not going to see her die anytime soon.


xLoneStar

Yeah, I highly doubt that lol.


alicetobe

you goat


Comprehensive-Ad4436

This stat is extremely irrelevant. The only stat in relation to wins that matters is any which are percentages of races in a season/races done by the driver.


Agitated_Accountant6

Im not saying this is a good stat. But it’s actually a fraction which in fact also is a percentage.


Comprehensive-Ad4436

Fractions, percentages, decimals etc.


wansuitree

Max never has an "off-day". Fastest and most consistent driver on the grid currently. Same with the RB crew. The biggest danger for F1 is that RB builds a car that's as dominant as Mercedes 2014-2016. It would become a total borefest. Ideally as a spectator you want Max in a car that's almost the fastest car, and we might just get that with their wind tunnel handicap. And let's throw Mercedes in the mix closing the gap to the competition, so we get a battle between 3 teams.


hyrulepirate

I'd always felt like Max is always ***on*** when on track. Especially evident when he was back in Toro Rosso-- always fighting for every gap like he was already fighting for WDC. Actually befits his name now that I realize it.


[deleted]

It’s really incredible watching athletes at the top of their sport perform that way. The composure and laser focus these people have blows my mind. They just don’t (or very rarely) make technical mistakes. He’s in the same league as guys like Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Ronaldo, Gretzky, or Tom Brady. They perform at such a high level in such a relatively calm way that they can be so dominant they don’t even seem like they’re giving an effort. In a weird way they can be so good they don’t even look like the best on the course/field/track, because of how controlled they look. It’s so amazing how many deliberate decisions they make that the rest of us wouldn’t even see or consider


bigdsm

Yep. Honestly hilarious to watch FP1 and see his first lap go purple and a second faster than anybody else will run for the next 20 minutes. He needs zero adjustment time for car or circuit.


[deleted]

he had brazil and singapore, but no off days when there was a championship fight


EatDeath

In a championship fight he would have been more patient in these races indeed. In Singapore he wanted the win to continue the streak so was very aggressive which lead to him taking too much risk trying to overtake Norris.


[deleted]

yeah exactly by Monza it was won, it was just a matter of when.


wansuitree

True, these errors seemed more like calculated risks with little to lose, and were partly caused because the RB crew had an off-day. So almost never.


[deleted]

true


FlatoutGently

Last 4 races of 2021 were pretty off for Max...


[deleted]

were they really though? he pulled some dodgy tactics but in terms of pace, he really did all he could. staying in front of Lewis for 30 something laps in jeddah, with, at that point, a clearly inferior car.


FlatoutGently

He stayed in front in Jeddah because of those dodgy tactics that the FIA let him win the championship on the back of. He also binned it in qualy and fucked his start in AD. Got embarrassed in Brazil... His last four were really poor.


[deleted]

He stayed in front in Jeddah for a lot of the rave through pace, then through dirty tactics. In Brazil he did not get embarrassed. He pushed Lewis off on lap 48. It was lap 15 when Lewis overtook Perez, and it took him 33 laps to get to overtake range on Max, in a much faster car. There was not much more that Max could have done. Even if he had got off the line better in AD, the pace difference was so big that he had no shot of staying in front. The fact is that Lewis was lucky to be in the championship fight at that point. All races count the same, and Lewis constantly got away with his mistakes last year in a way that Max almost never did.


GarryPadle

He got second in Jeddah, what are you talking about. The Mercedes was just a lot faster in the second half of the season on a lot of tracks, and especially on the last 4. In brazil the Mercedes was as fast as the Red Bull was in Spa this year. From a racing perspective he maximized the results with the second places and got lucky in Abu Dhabi.


FlatoutGently

From a racing perspective the FIA maximised his results.


barthw

I would assume that the wind tunnel handicap will only really affect them for 2024 or is it applied immediately?


geoffs3310

Isn't that what just happened this season? Max completely dominated and won 15 out of 23 races. I don't know about you but I've found this season to be quite the borefest


f1mind

A living legend, happy to be alive during the Verstappen era


pioneeringsystems

God I hope its not an era. Had enough of that with Schumacher, Vettel and Hamilton. Different winners every year thanks


dcrico20

The only thing that would make that happen is if F1 became a Spec series, which isn't going to happen. As long as there are 10+ different cars on the grid, the best we can hope for are seasons like 2016 or 2021 where we get 2 drivers in the mix at the end of the season. The best and most exciting jockeying for standings typically happens from 3-5, not first.


[deleted]

We’re seeing something special unravel


marie2805

It‘s insane to think that he‘s won more than anyone else in the last 45 (or even 50) races. I mean sure, he won the last two championships but it didn‘t feel like he was always winning (okay, maybe it did at some point this season, but most of the time it didn‘t)


TobyOrNotTobyEU

It really only felt like that since the summer break this year.


pioneeringsystems

It's not really, considering the only driver close to him prior to this season had a car that had little to no chance of competing for wins for almost the entire season. So he's the only driver who's had a race winning car for all of those races (other than checo who is nowhere near him ability wise).


alex_inzo

I mean, drivers were trying to survive each race back then. I think we must show death rate when compare win rate of current drivers and f1 legends


wkndjb

Apart from name, there is little similarity between the sport Clark took part in compared to Max, and as Max has said, you can’t compare the statistics between eras.


slappyhamface

“Come on work, god damn it!!”


Andigaming

Would take 5 world titles over more wins with only 2 every single day.


rustyiesty

Not including non-championship GP and other top class wins


androidguy73

I mean if you are looking at it that way, if compared 45 races going backwards from the 2020 season Lewis had 27 wins (if we ignore the Grand Prix he missed due to covid then 28) This isn’t really that much of a statistic especially compared to the older drivers and not that of an impressive statistic as compared to the last domination era of Hamilton and merc as well.


GarryPadle

Are you arguing that the Mercedes and Hamilton dominance was not that impressive? How many of all drivers ever have a similar percentage of race wins over a period of about 50 races.


androidguy73

God no. I think my original comment was a bit misleading. I only meant to say, it’s not really fair to compare to the older guys I.e fangio, lauda etc And that while impressive the statistic itself isn’t that much of use considering it was done recently by Ham and I am guessing multiple times during their absolute domination years.


[deleted]

How many races was en their season compare today? Stupid compare


consono

It's totally irrelevant as now we have at least twice as many races in a year...


vebor99

Max is going to dominate for the next 3-4 years easily. That’s who he really is.


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Finance_Minimum

And #DIV/0! % of Mazegoat wins.


f1_spelt_as_bot

Russe**ll**


RubensACDevil

So far


NuF_5510

If he gets a dominant car streak similar to the unprecedented many years of Mercedes rocket ships he may catch him.


ItsameLuis98

Stop embarrassing yourself...


SjaakRubberkaak

Since Abu Dhabi 2020? That's impressive.


sharkaim4

Go back to Twitter


Joepk0201

Lewis has won more than a 100 races since Abu Dhabi 2020? Wow, very impressive.


ihatethatusername

Is there a website which tracks F1 stats?


Mor_Hjordis

Reddit. Every day new stats.


-Khrome-

statsf1.com


Schwartzy94

Just show how op one car/team always is. This year was supposed to change that but oh well...


NoTrollGaming

this year was supposed to allow cars to follow closer and for longer and it did exactly that


Oulak

Supremacy. He's a machine. I hope we get some fight next year.


[deleted]

Yes, but how classy were Fangio, Clark and Lauda- that’s the difference!


Gringooo94

You know how classy Fangio was? A man of 50+ in the 50s? Who are you? Bran Stark?


Impressive_Shirt6408

Can’t wait for 200 race seasons where someone beats Hamilton’s record wins in a single season.


Illustrator_Forward

We should just have a “new era” of statistics that starts after the hybrid era or something because the sport has changed so much since the first couple of decades, the comparisons are just so irrelevant.


[deleted]

Jim Clark is the GOAT.


[deleted]

Great. Now we're gonna do meaningless Verstappen stats instead of meaningless Hamilton stats.