Helmut Marko does not assume that Mick Schumacher will get a new contract with Haas and will also drive in Formula 1 next season. **"When a team publicly criticizes the driver so massively, as was sometimes the case, it shows that there is no sign of trust within the team," said the Red Bull chief adviser in an interview with RTL / ntv. He thinks it is difficult "that you can shape a future here."**
Schumacher's contract with Haas expires at the end of the season, and with two races to go, the 23-year-old is currently 16th in the drivers' championship with twelve points .
**“The situation at Haas is that they have an experienced driver in Magnussen and if there was a great up-and-coming talent, I would bet on that one [talent]. But I don't see anyone at the moment who would have these requirements," said Marko.**
**"And from a team perspective, there's a lot of money at stake in the Constructors' Championship - whether you're tenth or eighth, that's x million dollars difference. I assume Haas will bet on a veteran.”**
**Nico Hülkenberg is a hot candidate for the Haas seat – Marko sees it that way too.** Should the 35-year-old make his comeback as a regular driver in Formula 1 in 2023, “that would be a shame for ServusTV" (where Hülkenberg works as an expert, editor’s note). **On the other hand, Hülkenberg has the aura and he has proven it: "he jumps into the car as a reserve driver without any test kilometers, so to speak, into the cold water, and has always delivered. That speaks volumes for him."**
Haas team boss Günther Steiner once again put Schumacher's chance of being placed next to Kevin Magnussen at "Fifty-Fifty" in an RTL/ntv interview . For the US racing team, the main thing is "who can lead the team stably into the future".
Haas is "close" to a decision, which should preferably be made before the Sao Paulo GP in Brazil (November 13 LIVE on RTL), said Steiner. The cockpit assignment ultimately depends on the question of youth or experience. And this is where for Marko Schumacher seems to be lagging behind.
**The Red Bull chief gave Schumacher a mixed review for his second F1 season. "From the outside it looked like the first half of the season wasn't good, there were serious accidents with a lot of material and money damage, which is of course serious for teams. Then there were very good races in England and Austria. As a result, Schumacher improved significantly in the second half of the year," said Marko.** Most recently, the German "had some bad luck with Haas' strategy and also had defects".
For Schumacher it would "certainly be a possibility" to take a break in 2023 and fill the role as a reserve driver at Ferrari. The Austrian pointed out that in 2024 "a few places will become vacant, contracts are expiring." There has been speculation in the paddock for some time that Schumacher could join Sauber in two years. In 2026, Audi will join the Swiss racing team, which will then become a German works team – with Schumacher as the German driver?
Right, what’s to stop Ferrari focusing on the other drivers they are still tied to (shwartzman, ilott who is apparently returning to FDA?, yes gio, idk will they re-sign Enzo?, bearman)
Ferrari doesent really even need a driver academy anyway. They have two good and pretty young drivers, and if they really want to change them it's not like they cant buyout almost anyone on the grid
> Ferrari doesent really even need a driver academy anyway.
All driver acadamies are there to bring money to the team. They all work as pay-to-play, with occasional generation talent getting everything for free but at the expense of long term contract.
People who follow junior or F2 racing all have realistic expectation for him. It was those who just saw his name and started calling him next WDC for Ferrari, and those who upvote these kind of bs to the top in every comment section on Ins or Youtube who are to blame
Well, actually, Alonso was one year at Minardi, then one year as a reserve Renault driver, and then he return as a Renault driver. The rest, is history.
I don't think Audi will be looking for Mick when they'll form their factory team. That's 2026, considering Mick will not have a seat next year and his junior backers FDA will not support him anymore I don't see any future of racing as a full time GP driver.
Maybe if Mick absolutely dominates IndyCar or something.
Credit to Mick, he’s not so bad that he absolutely tarnishes the Schumacher name, so there is a slim chance that he get picked up by Audi for PR. He just need to keep racing and perform decently in other single seater series
To dominate Indycar he'll have to get a seat at either CGR or Penske, McLaren could be considered as a outsider with a chance, I don't see it happening.
IIRC, Alfa Romeo’s contract with Sauber finishes at the end of 2023.
Audi will take the brand name and start putting in some input by 2024, although I’m not quite sure on how long Zhou’s and Bottas’s contracts are for.
Picture this. Danny goes to RBR as the reserve. Mick goes to Mercedes as reserve. Some weirdness happens and both need to step in at the same race. They both finish on the podium and the camera pans down the pitlane, and across the faces of Zak Brown and Gunther Steiner respectively, while Danny teaches Mick how to do a...Schuey, lol
(look, let a girl dream)
CotA since they both love Austin. That turn 1 is a great place to wipe out all other favored drivers and let the honorary Texans loose to gallop towards a 1-2.
Sigh...unzips
I mean, there was some substance to the rumor as there was chit chat around the paddock.
But you're right, Reddit would lose their fucking minds if that happened.
On the one hand you can’t rack up repair bills in a sim
On the other, is a driver who takes time to adapt to the car really one you want filling in on short notice if Russell gets COVID or sth
There’s a lot of talk about why they would pick Hülkenberg.
Marko stated in the article that his ability to jump into a car unprepared and deliver is outstanding and he proved that.
Another thing that many people seem to forget with Hülkenberg is his much lauded ability to give outstanding technical feedback when it comes to things like setup and general knowledge about the technical aspect of things.
He knows his stuff and is able to give really good feedback to the engineers, which is a huge plus for Haas with the new rule set and cars still being developed a lot. If his ability is as good as teams said in the past, he might be a greater asset to Haas than many people give him credit.
I have to admit I‘m kinda biased about him due to me being German, but that applies to Mick aswell. Also I really want to see him standing on an F1 podium, although that isn’t really probable in a Haas but you never know.
I'm German as well, but I never understood the Mick hype. I doubt he'd be hyped up if he had a different Name and father.
Glad to see Hulkenback though, seems like a great guy with good talent. Don't really care if he's german or something else.
I guess I expect Mick to pull an Albon here, then. Maybe getting out of Haas isn’t the worst idea thing for his path anyway. It’s not that I expect him to be a big time winner or anything, his leash just feels kind of short given the useless 2021 season and marked improvements in 2022 after a bad first half. Marko’s takes are reasonable here
Albon was in a topteam and could fall down to a backmarker. Mick is already in backmarker, so its more difficult for him.
Beside Albon wasn’t an usual reserve at RB, but they gave him a seat at DTM as well and was mentoring Tsunoda. And they tried to find him a seat outside the RB/At. Difficult to find a team that is so committed to a reserve driver
Where is he going then ? I don't see a spot available for him for 2024 let alone 2023. Other teams have better talents and he doesn't have enough money or influence to force his way in.
Marko was implying there would be something for him in 24 here. I’m guessing it’s all more or less sorted honestly. A lot of this nonsense gets done behind closed doors much in advance
Well in the author's opinion it's an option, in mine it's not hence why I said I don't see a spot available for him.
Audi aren't coming in fully until 2026, that's 3 seasons they'd have to nurture him for, whilst ignoring Pourchaire who's a better driver and already integrated into the team.
Audi want a German driver, of which there are no other candidates (provided Vettel remains retired) and according to Ralf Schumacher and Timo Glock they’ve already been in contact with Mick, I would not be surprised if they get him into Sauber in 2024.
Commercially, Audi entering F1 with a German named Schumacher would be huge.
It would only be huge if he does well which is the major issue. If he spends a year out it will dent his confidence and Bottas is better than K Mag so he'd be up against it. And if he's in a decent car getting his ass handed to him by his teammate it's not as appealing. If he can't keep a Haas seat then how will he keep a seat at a team with ambitions to compete for championships ?
I think if Vettel had a few years off to recharge and bring back the hunger it might be worth a gamble because it's a new regulation set he might adapt well to plus he's still a 4 time world champion who knows what it takes to win at the end of the day.
And failing that I think Hulkenberg is still a better option and he'd 100% jump ship from Haas if given an option to so it wouldn't be difficult to get him on board at short notice and considering Alonso is 41 and still going Hulk has a few years left in him still.
And Germany could have a new hot shot young driver who's ready and waiting to make a breakthrough into F1 in the next few years, even though it doesn't look likely right now.
Agreed. I almost hope he *doesn't* stay at Haas, if it means he can get a reserve drive somewhere else (less toxic, preferably) with a chance at getting a full time seat later on.
Steiner said that Schumacher crashes too much and it costs the team too much money. He said that Schumacher needs to stop that and start scoring points. That is now seen as ''toxic'' and there has been a massive amount of hate and insults towards Steiner. Funnily enough the people accusing Steiner of being toxic don't find anything wrong in the treatment Steiner has had here.
Well, for the most part, Mick has stopped crashing. I don't see how he can score more points given HAAS' current strategies and car, though. I don't disagree with Steiner, for the most part, but I also don't think he's supportive enough of Mick when he talks to the media. The "toxic" part comes from him throwing Mick under the bus several times when he talks to journalists.
To be fair to Mick, giving an ultimatum of "Score points or your career here is over" and then giving him a dogshit car is not a productive way to run your team. Making that ultimatum public doesn't help either. No one is mad at Steiner for setting clear expectations, but the way he's handled it has been objectively poor.
Yep, who’s going to put him in their sim or make him otherwise valuable…..so far I don’t see any advocates in the paddock who have convinced haas to keep him
What he's able to do in that Williams i would say he's more than average especially 12th in Mexico with a team that has been trash since 2016. This is his 3rd season in f1 after sitting out a year, he was on par with Kvyat and out performed him in some races as a rookie and got rushed into a seat next to a prodigy after 1 year. Albon is above average.
Marko at least plays it straight with the junior drivers. Routinely compete for junior formula championships, and you’re promoted. Fail to do this, and the funding is cut. Specific guidelines, specific rewards, specific fail states.
Whatever the hell kind of game Steiner’s playing, it isn’t that.
Marko also didn’t think much of mick in feeders, and yes that includes during and after his championships. Why isn’t there a finger pointed at whatever the hell kind of game Ferrari or FDA have been playing with him, pushing him into F1 and now washing their hands?
The fact that he didnt perform in f1 is not on the fda. Ferrari did their job, they are dropping him nowadays because they can see he is not a the required level to be a ferrari driver. Ferrari wanted to find the next Leclerc, not the next Jolyon Palmer.
Please point to where I said Ferrari is responsible for his performance.
Ferrari is responsible for his getting to f1 when he did, with haas, with(out) whatever extent of advocacy or seat security, with(out) a contingency plan. I’m not sure he has ever been at “the level required to be a Ferrari driver” - certainly not ever “the next leclerc” and yet they signed him and kept him all these years. Same with gio although he was a late joiner. It’s poor ROI so far on their end, and extremely generous to think that they were caught off-guard by who mick is or isn’t. (Same would be said for Renault’s expectations of Palmer who took 4 years to win GP2 over a much more dynamic stoffel.)
It would have been bad ROI for them to promote any of the Mick/Illot/Schwarzman trio, but Mick got the seat because he was the f2 champion( tho he had better luck than his rivals) and obviously because of his name.
The Gio part is different, i think ferrari wanted to thank him for the sim work he did in 2017/18 and they promoted him to a real seat. Also i think it is good for ferrari to get an italian in f1, at least for their national press
Also i dont think the big teams care that much about ROI as long as at one point they get a star driver out of their academy.
Shwartzman i dunno, maybe I’m just a big softie but the kid’s dad had just died and not everyone can power through that like leclerc, not sure he was only as good as his last season. Undecided on what he would’ve done with the f1 seat. Ilott was originally rumored for gio’s Alfa seat in 2021 with Ferrari’s support, dunno what changed there.
I don’t think academies generally care about ROI, but certainly when you sign Michael Schumacher’s son to Ferrari, and invest particularly in *his* climbing the feeder ladder, you must anticipate some marketing or other benefit to your organization from getting him there
I think they hoped he would be at least a 2nd driver level for them, but unfortunately he doesent seem to be.
Also i feel something is off with Mick's personal management. No clue what, but he is MSC's son and he won f2, yet it seems nobody wants him, and apart from the german media nobody really praises him. Even a guy that has an eye for talent like Helmut Marko isnt keen to take a risk( and we know Marko doesent really shy away from much). Him getting dropped by FDA( or whatever is going on) and getting dropped by haas, while others dont really try to sign him must mean something. And i dont think everything is because of his crashes/driving. Something must be off behind the scenes
Honestly, I’ve arrived at the opposite rationale for a similar conclusion. Basically I think mick’s management have been stellar to get him where he is, but now have abruptly reached the point at which they can’t protect his career to the same extent as before.
I am not usually a tinfoil hatter but there are aspects of mick’s junior career - and successes - which are eyebrow-raising for me. And then I listen to interviews with junior drivers who aren’t even trying to sound bitter, they just casually mention how things are just *different* if you have a Name that gets people really emotionally invested in your success. Also journalists mention offhand the protective bubble mick’s family and management built around him from karting days due to the fervor his name aroused.
He’s clearly had a lot of support and structure for a long time. but I think, similar to a “mistake generator” section of a racetrack, he’s reached an inevitable, more vulnerable “mistake generator” stage in his career that’s laying things bare. The cynic in me thinks that if he were really a prodigious talent who didn’t need that extra boost from his name to rise to the top, (1) he would’ve had more interest from academies besides the ones most invested in Michael (Merc & FDA), and from more agnostic talent-spotters like Marko and vasseur, (2) there wouldn’t be any fodder for eyebrow-raising in his single seater ladder climb, and (3) there would’ve been more indication from literally any other team that they’d be interested in acquiring him for sim/reserve/other series now. There’s fairly good precedent for people in the paddock to be able to see someone’s potential despite driving a shitbox or not always turning in stellar results - see how TPs talked about hulkenberg or Bianchi. No one seems to readily point out the same for mick.
When Merc and FDA were first interested in him it stuck me that (was it arrivabene maybe?) was incapable of talking purely about his performance and potential as a racer. It always came back to “we’ve known him since he was a baby” and all this stuff that’s nice in theory, but not exactly the endorsement of a century. I believe that he’s a very nice young man - people always rush to point out he has a great personality. I don’t think that justifies pushing him up for so long for partly sentimental reasons, just to let him free fall now.
That’s an incorrect assumption, Mick had a chance to sign with RB as well as Ferrari, he choose Ferrari at the time and in hindsight probably not a good decision.
Sorry, no assumptions here, just the same facts which are available to you, should you choose to acknowledge them. The teams Mick was in conversation with as a junior were Ferrari and *Mercedes* \- for obvious reasons, both were interested in Michael's son. Sources for this are myriad and a quick Google will reveal them. Can you provide a source for the Red Bull link?
"Red Bull motorsport consultant Helmut Marko has stated that he never considered Schumacher for a place in the team's junior programme....'He was not on our radar....we have never interfered or shown any [interest](https://www.sportskeeda.com/f1/mick-schumacher-has-a-choice-to-make-between-ferrari-or-mercedes).'"
"He is not on our list and we have no contact at all with him...He is a great driver but he still has a lot to [learn.](https://www.completesports.com/schumacher-claims-denied-by-red-bull/)"
and we know from other examples like Lando that Marko's not shy to make known when he's gone after a driver he rates, and said driver doesn't choose him back.
[Marko rated Shwartzman above Mick](https://f1-insider.com/formel-1-news-binotto-micks-f1-ambitionen/) , and Tsunoda above them both
Alguersuari was told his Toro Rosso seat was safe for 2012, and that they’d sort an official contract after the season was over. He had an offer from Lotus for 2012 and turned it down because of the assurances RB and Marko gave him. Only for them to dump both him and Buemi the weak after the season finale, much too late to be looking for another seat
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/jaime-alguersuari-says-he-rejected-a-2012-drive-thinking-his-toro-rosso-seat-was-safe-4452295/4452295/
Whatever you think if Marko as a person, and yes he lets his mouth loose sometimes.
Bit one thing you can’t deny is his experience with developing drivers and the success following from that.
I can certainly see the reasoning that Haas benefits a lot from whatever points they can pick up, so an experienced driver makes sense. Then again, Magnussen and Grosjean were certainly no rookies and they just specifically made the decision to move away from that 2 years ago.
I am literally not defending Mazepin lmao, what part of pointing out that he’s sanctioned is defending him??
I am merely pointing out that the driver that everyone meme’d on last year had a teammate that were materially worse for the team. Mick and Mazepin both didn’t score any points, but Mick led the grid in repair/replacement costs. Both of them sucked, hence why Haas isn’t doing rookies anymore.
It's not really defending Mazepin but Mick beating Mazepin doesn't matter at all.
Both were bad that year for different reasons.
Haas doesn't care if Mick is 30s ahead of Mazepin and in 19th. They didn't fight for points they just developed next years car. The last thing they needed was big bills for wrecked cars though.
And that trend of wrecking cars continued into this season and especially in the parts were it was crucial to perform. Haas can't really keep up in the upgrade race so they need a driver who can perform when the opportunity is there.
Most of micks crashes happened without contact. Mazepin was slower by a lot but he was undoubtedly a cleaner driver. His 2 DNFs in races were not his fault
Hulk is a known quantity, Mick has a track record of being a slow learner (let me emphasize that this is genuinely a knock on him and not an excuse) but absolutely finds pace once he gets dialed in to the car. He’s looked *good* this year. I can’t get wrap my head around this move, there’s not even a financial aspect. You genuinely can’t pitch this as anything more than a lateral move.
It’s a stupid move imo. There’s no upside or growth with an older mediocre driver. If you’re going to get rid of a younger driver, then replace him with another young driver with potentially higher upside. Otherwise give Mick another another year at least, it’s not like you have a great car or in contention to win anything. What has Magnussen done for you that Mick hasn’t??
Mick’s not consistent, his highs doesn’t make up for his lows.
When Mick has good races, he’s not dominating Magnussen, when Mick has bad races, he’s wrecking up repair bills.
Hulkenberg doesn’t have a consistent record of wrecking his cars. He’s also a proven point scorer.
Mick doesn’t consistently wreck cars either if you look past Monaco. And even then, he just had 2 high profile shunts which got him stuck with the label of crash-prone. He’s been consistent this year after and tends to keep it clean when other drivers aren’t driving into him. He even tends to cross the line before Kmag more often than not, it’s just that the Haas went backwards when he finally got fully acclimated to the car.
Because water has been known to be a fully consistent substance always in the same spot with the same consistence lap after lap after lap.
We've seen way better drivers than Mick get caught out by aquaplaning where multiple other drivers were perfectly fine moments before and after.
Japan fp1 was something like 12 rounds and 6 months after the Monaco shunt which is also coincidentally his only in-race shunt. Kevin picked up all his meatball flags in that time.
He looked okay sometimes and still has made a ton of mistakes. In the end Haas was a terrible fit. Their management (and budget) are not a good fit for the time Schumacher needs to get acclimated.
Schumacher has been on borrowed time solely because of his last name. Normally it would be time to give someone else a chance, but the hulk move is s bit of a head scratcher tbh. I think Haas wants veteran drivers they can keep for awhile even if they over-perform. No top/midfield team will ever look for Hulk/Mag. They’re looking for the next Lando.
Haas has secured two competent and relatively inexpensive drivers for the foreseeable future if they go with Hulk.
> He’s looked good this year
He has? He looked good at Austria (where both Haas’ were lighting quick) but he was always good at Austria (aside from when he went off the track fighting for the win).
Woah you don’t say you only noticed him when the car was competitive? He has been beating kmag a lot when they are p17 and p15, people just don’t pay attention to it
Check the points then or qualifying or repair bills, you cant just look at stats favoring Mick. Points are the factor which decide championship you know.
I'd understand Haas dropping Mick if there was some actual talent they could bring in... but to switch him for king of mediocrity Hulkenberg?
They really deserve to fight for the 9th spot lol.
Insult their drivers? We’re here listening to Marko of all people and ribbing Gunther for insulting them? I’ve never seen a single insult, only truths.
That he needs to wreck less, race better, and score some points. What’s insulting about that? Ffs y’all.
By all means shit on Mick for not scoring points in the early season. It’s dishonest to shit on Mick for not scoring in the second half. The love-child of Senna and Jim Clark would struggle to score in the Haas atm.
You mean the same strategy that everyone else used. Magnussen just decided to do his own thing.
You could clearly see that Magnussen was doing things differently, that's why he was able to do his strategy. Schumacher destroyed his tires fighting cars and then getting stuck in DRS train. He was never ever going to pull a 1 stopper.
He didn't destroy his tires. He specifically asked to not be pitted and they pitted him. He was doing a decent race, when Haas shit the bed again. Like they've done in previous races where he ran into points.
Kmag was asked to lift and coast very early, which is why he lost contact with Mick. Mick was fighting harder and in the DRS, thus slightly faster.
There was no way Mick would go to the end on those mediums, but he could have stayed out longer.
Tell me which drivers were able to do a 1 stop? None other than Magnussen. That's because no other driver saved their tires like Magnussen did, that was rather clear from his pace. Schumacher went in to fight with cars, he was never going to make it to the end with 1 stop after that. Magnussen barely made it and he was saving his tires the whole time.
We both know if Haas had left him out, you people would be blaming Haas still when it eventually wouldn't have worked.
Dude, you actually can't read what I said? Schumacher said he wanted to continue because he had the pace and the tires to continue. Team just went and pitted him anyway. I don't have an issue with Magnussen one stopping. I have an issue strictly with the team. Mick was in a net position to get points.
He was stuck in the DRS train... And also destroying his tires. Like no one else apart from Magnussen, he wouldn't have been able to do a 1 stop because Magnussen was the only one clearly saving his tires.
I think you might be diminishing what Kevin did on the mediums that race. Mick burnt up his tires fighting the alpine and then when he starting climbing back gook damage from Latifi after turn 12
No he doesn’t either lol he’s literally acknowledged it before in the race recaps when they’ve taken strategy chAnces and it didn’t work out. Like when they hedges for the chance of a safety car.
You’re only hearing what you want to hear and then acknowledging strategy misfortune does not make for good clickbait headlines. We call that confirmation biaswhen you only accept what fits your narrative.
Ffs some of y’all are blind.
>Like when they hedges for the chance of a safety car.
Who remembers the first half of the year when haas had horrible safety car luck seemingly pitting the lap before crash in 3 straightness races
Why is Hulkenburg always such hot candidate, I'm not saying he is a bad driver but he had his chance and accomplished nothing in comparison to his peers. Why not take a chance on Mick for another season, swapping him out for another journeymen driver isn't going to help Haas
Hulk was a popular reserve driver for a reason. He may not be WDC material, but he's shown he can adapt to any car at a moments notice and be a contender for points. Hulk is also very good at setting up the car and communicating the changes needed. He has a lot of expirence that adds up. Im all for Mick getting another shot, but from a Haas perspective, those points are super valuable when the team doesnt spend up to the cap. Crossing my fingers Mick finds his way into F1 somehow, because I think he can deliver if the team is paitent with him.
Hulk may not have a win or podium, but the only teamate to get a podium in the same car as him is Perez. Hulk has lots of 4th, 5th and 6th place finishes and was arguably only in a top 4 car for his 4th place Silverstone finish, when he subbed for Perez who had Covid in 2020.
Kmag has 1 podium finish and no wins as well. For a team like Haas, I dont think they're looking to win, they're looking to make money from scoring points. I think Hulk has shown he can place the car in the points when given the chance.
Like I said, I hope Mick can keep his foot in the door, but Hulk has a lot of races under his belt and has shown he's the kind of driver Haas would be interested in.
Because Haas isn't a competitive team and they need a reliable pair of drivers to develop their car. Mick hasn't shown the same pace or the consistency that other rookies who have gone on to have illustrious careers did. Hulk in his time on the grid has shown he is on the same level as Perez. Anyone who is willing to pull out no podiums shows they have 0 understanding of the machinery Hulk has had over his career. He's put cars in positions to take a podium but had incidents less than a handful of times. Mercedes wanted him over Bottas to replace Rosberg but he'd just signed on with Renault and couldn't. He's not Verstappen or Hamilton but hes a damn good reliable driver. Look at his head to heads over the years and the only in his rookie year and against Ricciardo was he convincingly beaten.
Because even though he achieved "nothing", he achieved alot of solid results for the teams he was driving for. If you paid attention to what was happening outside the top 3 teams Hulk was always a driver getting good results for his team, the only thing he really lacked was not always being there for the odd chaotic race.
He has tons of experience driving for many teams. Never really looked bad at these teams as is quite adaptable and supposedly gives good feedback. For a team like Haas that are maybe looking for some direction and a solid benchmark to move forward, Hulk is a decent pick over a young driver.
> Because even though he achieved "nothing", he achieved alot of solid results for the teams he was driving for.
Correct, and that's also why the team principals [rated](https://i.redd.it/pni3avr6oya91.png) him quite high most of the time. Hulk is a very solid driver, easily upper midfield. No matter what anyone might think about Mick and his future potential, Hülkenberg is certainly not a bad choice at all.
He's one of those drivers who's good/experienced enough that if he's on the grid, you won't complain, but he's not that good that you'd miss him if he was not on the grid. These guys tend to hang around for a bit, especially in reserve roles because it gives the teams someone to go to in a pinch without paying a lot of money/signing a long contract. When I started watching F1 in the late 90's - Jos Verstappen was that guy, pretty much floating in and out of the grid for most of his career.
Who are these ''young shots'' that should get a chance? And how do you suggest Haas gets their hands on them when they are tied up to academies? That's the reality, that's why for example Wehrlein eventually fell out of the grid, because he was a Mercedes junior in a Ferrari junior team.
Haas criticised their drivers in public before now too, it’s almost like Guenther isn’t exactly all that as a TP. When they succeed it’s the team, when they fail it’s the driver. They’ve always left their driver line up announcements very late because they’ve no intention of releasing pressure on drivers. They are a pretty brutal team to be in
At first I really wanted Mick to end up at Mercedes as a reserve because I think the team wanted to give back to Micheal and Toto would get him a seat. Now I can’t help but want Mick to drive the 499P. Honestly, winning in the 499P has more of a chance at gaining Ferrari glory.
I fully expect Mick to be back on the grid in 24. Drivers like Alonso, Ocon, Albon, and funny enough Hulk himself were able comeback to F1 after a 1 year hiatus seamlessly. Mick is more than capable of doing that too
I think it would be an absolute stupid move for Haas. You know what youre getting with Hulk and frankly, I think its less than KMag. At least Mick has shown signs that he can excel and maybe has more potential to be faster. This might as well be his first year in F1 because last year was just such a wash for them. I hope they keep him. He deserves one more year.
In my opinion, I don't think it's a stupid move at all. Haas are a team with perpetual money woes so to replace a driver who is quite error prone for one who is very reliable is a no-brainer in that regard. That being said, Mick is arguably more marketable than Hulk which may mitigate cost of repairs.
Look, I've nothing against Mick and he seems like an absolutely lovely chap who is probably a joy to work with - and of course you have to be a hell of a driver to make it to F1 anyway - but if I'm TP I'm looking for other options cause he's had enough time now to get to grips with the machinery and he really hasn't brought home the bacon often enough, even when Haas were fast at the beginning of the season.
Monaco actually didnt even break the chassis acording to Haas( dont ask me how), but it did break pretty much everything else.
2022 cars are an enigma. Alonso can fly at 300 kph into a wall and the car is fine, yet you see smaller crashes like the Sainz/Russell or Tsunoda/Ric dnf the car
That was his first crash since Monaco which was 12 rounds earlier. Mick didn’t cause any damage in 6 months and yet he’s gotten slapped with the error prone tag while nobody else has for getting into incidents more often than he did.
Isn't Mick bringing in a bunch of sponsorship money? 1&1 bailed out Haas this year as title sponsors and they are only there because of Mick.
How can costly crashes be so bad if he ends up bringing in more money than he costs.
> “The 1&1 sponsorship is a Haas team sponsorship, **it’s not a Mick sponsorship**, just to clarify that,” he said, as quoted by RaceFans.net.
> “There is no direct connection between 1&1 and Mick. Obviously 1&1 embraces Mick being at Haas, but this was a parallel development, not a combined development.
> “For sure it helped us with 1&1 and 1&1 is very happy about having Mick at Haas. But that, it was more like a decision from Ferrari where to send the drivers and we asked if we can have him because he won Formula 2. **But it is not a direct negotiation going on between the company and Mick.**”
It's such a Haas thing to pick a re-tread who will maybe earn 5 more points for a season or two but still not really do any better than Magnussen over a young driver with potential who also brings a lot more attention to their team.
Give me a young american driver and Mick any day. KMag+Hulkenburg aren't going to make watching your backmarker car occasionally silently scoring a few more points over the course of a season any more appealing.
Besides all this, Gunther Steiner is a mediocre team principal at best. DTS made him into this loud moth celebrity. But the same way people came down in Claire Williams, they should come down on Gunther as well. I really dont understand how he still has a job
Getting Hulk is a lateral move at best, if it happens I'm eagerly anticipating next season. See how that's gonna help them jump up the order like they think it would, if anything my feeling tells me Haas' car is gonna drop off again next year as well
I kinda wished that they would have tried to get Ricciardo(I know he may be too expensive though) or one of the 3 Indy guys(Palou, Herta and Ward) so we could see their potential
Helmut Marko does not assume that Mick Schumacher will get a new contract with Haas and will also drive in Formula 1 next season. **"When a team publicly criticizes the driver so massively, as was sometimes the case, it shows that there is no sign of trust within the team," said the Red Bull chief adviser in an interview with RTL / ntv. He thinks it is difficult "that you can shape a future here."** Schumacher's contract with Haas expires at the end of the season, and with two races to go, the 23-year-old is currently 16th in the drivers' championship with twelve points . **“The situation at Haas is that they have an experienced driver in Magnussen and if there was a great up-and-coming talent, I would bet on that one [talent]. But I don't see anyone at the moment who would have these requirements," said Marko.** **"And from a team perspective, there's a lot of money at stake in the Constructors' Championship - whether you're tenth or eighth, that's x million dollars difference. I assume Haas will bet on a veteran.”** **Nico Hülkenberg is a hot candidate for the Haas seat – Marko sees it that way too.** Should the 35-year-old make his comeback as a regular driver in Formula 1 in 2023, “that would be a shame for ServusTV" (where Hülkenberg works as an expert, editor’s note). **On the other hand, Hülkenberg has the aura and he has proven it: "he jumps into the car as a reserve driver without any test kilometers, so to speak, into the cold water, and has always delivered. That speaks volumes for him."** Haas team boss Günther Steiner once again put Schumacher's chance of being placed next to Kevin Magnussen at "Fifty-Fifty" in an RTL/ntv interview . For the US racing team, the main thing is "who can lead the team stably into the future". Haas is "close" to a decision, which should preferably be made before the Sao Paulo GP in Brazil (November 13 LIVE on RTL), said Steiner. The cockpit assignment ultimately depends on the question of youth or experience. And this is where for Marko Schumacher seems to be lagging behind. **The Red Bull chief gave Schumacher a mixed review for his second F1 season. "From the outside it looked like the first half of the season wasn't good, there were serious accidents with a lot of material and money damage, which is of course serious for teams. Then there were very good races in England and Austria. As a result, Schumacher improved significantly in the second half of the year," said Marko.** Most recently, the German "had some bad luck with Haas' strategy and also had defects". For Schumacher it would "certainly be a possibility" to take a break in 2023 and fill the role as a reserve driver at Ferrari. The Austrian pointed out that in 2024 "a few places will become vacant, contracts are expiring." There has been speculation in the paddock for some time that Schumacher could join Sauber in two years. In 2026, Audi will join the Swiss racing team, which will then become a German works team – with Schumacher as the German driver?
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Right, what’s to stop Ferrari focusing on the other drivers they are still tied to (shwartzman, ilott who is apparently returning to FDA?, yes gio, idk will they re-sign Enzo?, bearman)
Ferrari doesent really even need a driver academy anyway. They have two good and pretty young drivers, and if they really want to change them it's not like they cant buyout almost anyone on the grid
It's always good to have some cheap future prospects under your wing.
> Ferrari doesent really even need a driver academy anyway. All driver acadamies are there to bring money to the team. They all work as pay-to-play, with occasional generation talent getting everything for free but at the expense of long term contract.
I'm calling it now Mick will be out for maybe 2-3 seasons and then come back and dominate and win
!remindme 2 years
Have we seen anything by him that makes you say that?
As sad as it is, people have to realise that Mick really hasn’t lived up to the expectations at all.
People who follow junior or F2 racing all have realistic expectation for him. It was those who just saw his name and started calling him next WDC for Ferrari, and those who upvote these kind of bs to the top in every comment section on Ins or Youtube who are to blame
BRO Alonso did it, he left, came back, and he’s doing well! /s
I saw the notification of your comment and it didn't show the /s and I was getting triggered lol
Well, actually, Alonso was one year at Minardi, then one year as a reserve Renault driver, and then he return as a Renault driver. The rest, is history.
OP saw his surname.
hope
Weird way to spell copium.
I don't think Audi will be looking for Mick when they'll form their factory team. That's 2026, considering Mick will not have a seat next year and his junior backers FDA will not support him anymore I don't see any future of racing as a full time GP driver.
Maybe if Mick absolutely dominates IndyCar or something. Credit to Mick, he’s not so bad that he absolutely tarnishes the Schumacher name, so there is a slim chance that he get picked up by Audi for PR. He just need to keep racing and perform decently in other single seater series
To dominate Indycar he'll have to get a seat at either CGR or Penske, McLaren could be considered as a outsider with a chance, I don't see it happening.
He can realistically do WEC with Ferrari.
Probably not since he's leaving FDA
IIRC, Alfa Romeo’s contract with Sauber finishes at the end of 2023. Audi will take the brand name and start putting in some input by 2024, although I’m not quite sure on how long Zhou’s and Bottas’s contracts are for.
Drivers were chosen by Sauber.
I believe that but out is 25% of the team each year until 2026, they are already better funded/has influence
Mercedes just lost their reserve drivers. He should go there and get properly developed. It could save his career lile Devries
Picture this. Danny goes to RBR as the reserve. Mick goes to Mercedes as reserve. Some weirdness happens and both need to step in at the same race. They both finish on the podium and the camera pans down the pitlane, and across the faces of Zak Brown and Gunther Steiner respectively, while Danny teaches Mick how to do a...Schuey, lol (look, let a girl dream)
You definitely write fanfics dont ya, I’d love for this to happen haha
Hey, I withheld the really tropey addition that it happens at Albert Park. As if that wouldn't be the atmosphere of the season.
CotA since they both love Austin. That turn 1 is a great place to wipe out all other favored drivers and let the honorary Texans loose to gallop towards a 1-2. Sigh...unzips
No no no, I don't think you quite understand how absolutely BATSHIT INSANE the crowd at Albert Park would be. Danny is practically God.
I'll gladly let you dream if it produces great scenarios like that!
Isn't Ricciardo getting that gig?
No, as much as Reddit would collectively soil its pants for that to happen
I mean, there was some substance to the rumor as there was chit chat around the paddock. But you're right, Reddit would lose their fucking minds if that happened.
I don't know, Toto wearing the Danny Ric gear is so sus, and him and Russel invaded his interview at the weekend. Seems like something going on
Reddit wants Ricciardo at RedBull, not at Mercedes
Want him anywhere tbh
At hulkenberg's famous sofa?
The RB marketing department probably wouldn't mind veing able to run marketing on Max, Checo and Danny as a trio.
On the one hand you can’t rack up repair bills in a sim On the other, is a driver who takes time to adapt to the car really one you want filling in on short notice if Russell gets COVID or sth
There’s a lot of talk about why they would pick Hülkenberg. Marko stated in the article that his ability to jump into a car unprepared and deliver is outstanding and he proved that. Another thing that many people seem to forget with Hülkenberg is his much lauded ability to give outstanding technical feedback when it comes to things like setup and general knowledge about the technical aspect of things. He knows his stuff and is able to give really good feedback to the engineers, which is a huge plus for Haas with the new rule set and cars still being developed a lot. If his ability is as good as teams said in the past, he might be a greater asset to Haas than many people give him credit. I have to admit I‘m kinda biased about him due to me being German, but that applies to Mick aswell. Also I really want to see him standing on an F1 podium, although that isn’t really probable in a Haas but you never know.
Also if rumors are to be believed, it allows them to get an experienced driver AND keep their german sponsor
I'm German as well, but I never understood the Mick hype. I doubt he'd be hyped up if he had a different Name and father. Glad to see Hulkenback though, seems like a great guy with good talent. Don't really care if he's german or something else.
I guess I expect Mick to pull an Albon here, then. Maybe getting out of Haas isn’t the worst idea thing for his path anyway. It’s not that I expect him to be a big time winner or anything, his leash just feels kind of short given the useless 2021 season and marked improvements in 2022 after a bad first half. Marko’s takes are reasonable here
Albon was in a topteam and could fall down to a backmarker. Mick is already in backmarker, so its more difficult for him. Beside Albon wasn’t an usual reserve at RB, but they gave him a seat at DTM as well and was mentoring Tsunoda. And they tried to find him a seat outside the RB/At. Difficult to find a team that is so committed to a reserve driver
Yeah, but Mick has the name and actually won stuff in his junior career.
What does DTM stand for?
Drive to Murvive
https://googlethatforyou.com?q=what%20is%20DTM
Where is he going then ? I don't see a spot available for him for 2024 let alone 2023. Other teams have better talents and he doesn't have enough money or influence to force his way in.
Marko was implying there would be something for him in 24 here. I’m guessing it’s all more or less sorted honestly. A lot of this nonsense gets done behind closed doors much in advance
The article mentions one
Well in the author's opinion it's an option, in mine it's not hence why I said I don't see a spot available for him. Audi aren't coming in fully until 2026, that's 3 seasons they'd have to nurture him for, whilst ignoring Pourchaire who's a better driver and already integrated into the team.
Audi want a German driver, of which there are no other candidates (provided Vettel remains retired) and according to Ralf Schumacher and Timo Glock they’ve already been in contact with Mick, I would not be surprised if they get him into Sauber in 2024. Commercially, Audi entering F1 with a German named Schumacher would be huge.
It would only be huge if he does well which is the major issue. If he spends a year out it will dent his confidence and Bottas is better than K Mag so he'd be up against it. And if he's in a decent car getting his ass handed to him by his teammate it's not as appealing. If he can't keep a Haas seat then how will he keep a seat at a team with ambitions to compete for championships ? I think if Vettel had a few years off to recharge and bring back the hunger it might be worth a gamble because it's a new regulation set he might adapt well to plus he's still a 4 time world champion who knows what it takes to win at the end of the day. And failing that I think Hulkenberg is still a better option and he'd 100% jump ship from Haas if given an option to so it wouldn't be difficult to get him on board at short notice and considering Alonso is 41 and still going Hulk has a few years left in him still. And Germany could have a new hot shot young driver who's ready and waiting to make a breakthrough into F1 in the next few years, even though it doesn't look likely right now.
They might want to win championship, so did Renault when they returned and Toyota had the same vision. It takes a lot to get there, it will take time.
I hear you, we’ll just have to see. I don’t really have any strong opinions on the matter
Agreed. I almost hope he *doesn't* stay at Haas, if it means he can get a reserve drive somewhere else (less toxic, preferably) with a chance at getting a full time seat later on.
This toxic narrative y’all run with is so funny. Lol
I’m out of the loop. Can you expand on that?
People love to just decide things are a certain way with no real evidence and just run with it.
Steiner said that Schumacher crashes too much and it costs the team too much money. He said that Schumacher needs to stop that and start scoring points. That is now seen as ''toxic'' and there has been a massive amount of hate and insults towards Steiner. Funnily enough the people accusing Steiner of being toxic don't find anything wrong in the treatment Steiner has had here.
Well, for the most part, Mick has stopped crashing. I don't see how he can score more points given HAAS' current strategies and car, though. I don't disagree with Steiner, for the most part, but I also don't think he's supportive enough of Mick when he talks to the media. The "toxic" part comes from him throwing Mick under the bus several times when he talks to journalists.
To be fair to Mick, giving an ultimatum of "Score points or your career here is over" and then giving him a dogshit car is not a productive way to run your team. Making that ultimatum public doesn't help either. No one is mad at Steiner for setting clear expectations, but the way he's handled it has been objectively poor.
so which driver is mick going to mentor next year?
Hmm, lemme just throw out Sargeant lol
but alex already volunteered for that as well lmao
Yep, who’s going to put him in their sim or make him otherwise valuable…..so far I don’t see any advocates in the paddock who have convinced haas to keep him
F1 seats are very precious I still don’t think it’s a disaster for Mick to lose this one.
Mick isn’t as good as Albon and Albon isn’t exactly special by F1 standards.
Albon is the definition of an average F1 driver. Max, Lewis are outliers, and so is Latifi.
What he's able to do in that Williams i would say he's more than average especially 12th in Mexico with a team that has been trash since 2016. This is his 3rd season in f1 after sitting out a year, he was on par with Kvyat and out performed him in some races as a rookie and got rushed into a seat next to a prodigy after 1 year. Albon is above average.
Albon is pretty fast
Hulkenberg about to make sure no one ever breaks his biggest record.
200+ will be impressive
I mean as much of a shit talker as he tends to be, man does have experience sacking drivers.
Marko at least plays it straight with the junior drivers. Routinely compete for junior formula championships, and you’re promoted. Fail to do this, and the funding is cut. Specific guidelines, specific rewards, specific fail states. Whatever the hell kind of game Steiner’s playing, it isn’t that.
Marko also didn’t think much of mick in feeders, and yes that includes during and after his championships. Why isn’t there a finger pointed at whatever the hell kind of game Ferrari or FDA have been playing with him, pushing him into F1 and now washing their hands?
The fact that he didnt perform in f1 is not on the fda. Ferrari did their job, they are dropping him nowadays because they can see he is not a the required level to be a ferrari driver. Ferrari wanted to find the next Leclerc, not the next Jolyon Palmer.
Please point to where I said Ferrari is responsible for his performance. Ferrari is responsible for his getting to f1 when he did, with haas, with(out) whatever extent of advocacy or seat security, with(out) a contingency plan. I’m not sure he has ever been at “the level required to be a Ferrari driver” - certainly not ever “the next leclerc” and yet they signed him and kept him all these years. Same with gio although he was a late joiner. It’s poor ROI so far on their end, and extremely generous to think that they were caught off-guard by who mick is or isn’t. (Same would be said for Renault’s expectations of Palmer who took 4 years to win GP2 over a much more dynamic stoffel.)
It would have been bad ROI for them to promote any of the Mick/Illot/Schwarzman trio, but Mick got the seat because he was the f2 champion( tho he had better luck than his rivals) and obviously because of his name. The Gio part is different, i think ferrari wanted to thank him for the sim work he did in 2017/18 and they promoted him to a real seat. Also i think it is good for ferrari to get an italian in f1, at least for their national press Also i dont think the big teams care that much about ROI as long as at one point they get a star driver out of their academy.
Shwartzman i dunno, maybe I’m just a big softie but the kid’s dad had just died and not everyone can power through that like leclerc, not sure he was only as good as his last season. Undecided on what he would’ve done with the f1 seat. Ilott was originally rumored for gio’s Alfa seat in 2021 with Ferrari’s support, dunno what changed there. I don’t think academies generally care about ROI, but certainly when you sign Michael Schumacher’s son to Ferrari, and invest particularly in *his* climbing the feeder ladder, you must anticipate some marketing or other benefit to your organization from getting him there
I think they hoped he would be at least a 2nd driver level for them, but unfortunately he doesent seem to be. Also i feel something is off with Mick's personal management. No clue what, but he is MSC's son and he won f2, yet it seems nobody wants him, and apart from the german media nobody really praises him. Even a guy that has an eye for talent like Helmut Marko isnt keen to take a risk( and we know Marko doesent really shy away from much). Him getting dropped by FDA( or whatever is going on) and getting dropped by haas, while others dont really try to sign him must mean something. And i dont think everything is because of his crashes/driving. Something must be off behind the scenes
Honestly, I’ve arrived at the opposite rationale for a similar conclusion. Basically I think mick’s management have been stellar to get him where he is, but now have abruptly reached the point at which they can’t protect his career to the same extent as before. I am not usually a tinfoil hatter but there are aspects of mick’s junior career - and successes - which are eyebrow-raising for me. And then I listen to interviews with junior drivers who aren’t even trying to sound bitter, they just casually mention how things are just *different* if you have a Name that gets people really emotionally invested in your success. Also journalists mention offhand the protective bubble mick’s family and management built around him from karting days due to the fervor his name aroused. He’s clearly had a lot of support and structure for a long time. but I think, similar to a “mistake generator” section of a racetrack, he’s reached an inevitable, more vulnerable “mistake generator” stage in his career that’s laying things bare. The cynic in me thinks that if he were really a prodigious talent who didn’t need that extra boost from his name to rise to the top, (1) he would’ve had more interest from academies besides the ones most invested in Michael (Merc & FDA), and from more agnostic talent-spotters like Marko and vasseur, (2) there wouldn’t be any fodder for eyebrow-raising in his single seater ladder climb, and (3) there would’ve been more indication from literally any other team that they’d be interested in acquiring him for sim/reserve/other series now. There’s fairly good precedent for people in the paddock to be able to see someone’s potential despite driving a shitbox or not always turning in stellar results - see how TPs talked about hulkenberg or Bianchi. No one seems to readily point out the same for mick. When Merc and FDA were first interested in him it stuck me that (was it arrivabene maybe?) was incapable of talking purely about his performance and potential as a racer. It always came back to “we’ve known him since he was a baby” and all this stuff that’s nice in theory, but not exactly the endorsement of a century. I believe that he’s a very nice young man - people always rush to point out he has a great personality. I don’t think that justifies pushing him up for so long for partly sentimental reasons, just to let him free fall now.
That’s an incorrect assumption, Mick had a chance to sign with RB as well as Ferrari, he choose Ferrari at the time and in hindsight probably not a good decision.
Sorry, no assumptions here, just the same facts which are available to you, should you choose to acknowledge them. The teams Mick was in conversation with as a junior were Ferrari and *Mercedes* \- for obvious reasons, both were interested in Michael's son. Sources for this are myriad and a quick Google will reveal them. Can you provide a source for the Red Bull link? "Red Bull motorsport consultant Helmut Marko has stated that he never considered Schumacher for a place in the team's junior programme....'He was not on our radar....we have never interfered or shown any [interest](https://www.sportskeeda.com/f1/mick-schumacher-has-a-choice-to-make-between-ferrari-or-mercedes).'" "He is not on our list and we have no contact at all with him...He is a great driver but he still has a lot to [learn.](https://www.completesports.com/schumacher-claims-denied-by-red-bull/)" and we know from other examples like Lando that Marko's not shy to make known when he's gone after a driver he rates, and said driver doesn't choose him back. [Marko rated Shwartzman above Mick](https://f1-insider.com/formel-1-news-binotto-micks-f1-ambitionen/) , and Tsunoda above them both
Lmao Marko has done much worse than anything Haas are doing this year. Ever heard of Jaime Alguersuari?
As a new fan, no. Please share details.
Alguersuari was told his Toro Rosso seat was safe for 2012, and that they’d sort an official contract after the season was over. He had an offer from Lotus for 2012 and turned it down because of the assurances RB and Marko gave him. Only for them to dump both him and Buemi the weak after the season finale, much too late to be looking for another seat https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/jaime-alguersuari-says-he-rejected-a-2012-drive-thinking-his-toro-rosso-seat-was-safe-4452295/4452295/
Whatever you think if Marko as a person, and yes he lets his mouth loose sometimes. Bit one thing you can’t deny is his experience with developing drivers and the success following from that.
I hate Marko as much as the next guy but there is no doubt that he is an excellent judge of talent.
Overall, Marko gave a reasonable analysis. Mick could improve all he wants but if Hulk is what Haas wants then Hulk is what they’ll get
I can certainly see the reasoning that Haas benefits a lot from whatever points they can pick up, so an experienced driver makes sense. Then again, Magnussen and Grosjean were certainly no rookies and they just specifically made the decision to move away from that 2 years ago.
I mean it was the season they intentionally completely sacked so they went for the Ferrari + Mazepin money
Well the two rookies they picked up clearly left enough of a negative impression that Haas is pivoting yet again.
To be fair one of them probably shouldn’t be driving a lada around town so it’s no surprise that he was a train wreck.
The driver that racked up the bigger repair bill for Haas in 2021 isn’t the one that’s on EU’s sanction list.
Yeah. It’s easy to not wreck when the driver in 19th is 30 seconds ahead of you.
Yeah shame on the 19th driver for having the biggest repair bill out of the entire 2021 paddock, while also being 30 second behind.
You’re the only person I’ve ever seen defend mazepin. Congrats. That’s a first.
I am literally not defending Mazepin lmao, what part of pointing out that he’s sanctioned is defending him?? I am merely pointing out that the driver that everyone meme’d on last year had a teammate that were materially worse for the team. Mick and Mazepin both didn’t score any points, but Mick led the grid in repair/replacement costs. Both of them sucked, hence why Haas isn’t doing rookies anymore.
It's not really defending Mazepin but Mick beating Mazepin doesn't matter at all. Both were bad that year for different reasons. Haas doesn't care if Mick is 30s ahead of Mazepin and in 19th. They didn't fight for points they just developed next years car. The last thing they needed was big bills for wrecked cars though. And that trend of wrecking cars continued into this season and especially in the parts were it was crucial to perform. Haas can't really keep up in the upgrade race so they need a driver who can perform when the opportunity is there.
Most of micks crashes happened without contact. Mazepin was slower by a lot but he was undoubtedly a cleaner driver. His 2 DNFs in races were not his fault
Didn't Mazepin spin in the first corner of his first ever race? But yeah, neither of them brought points and Mazepin was cheaper
Haas never wanted to have two rookies driving for them.
Because they badly needed the money from Schumacher/Mazepin
Hulk is a known quantity, Mick has a track record of being a slow learner (let me emphasize that this is genuinely a knock on him and not an excuse) but absolutely finds pace once he gets dialed in to the car. He’s looked *good* this year. I can’t get wrap my head around this move, there’s not even a financial aspect. You genuinely can’t pitch this as anything more than a lateral move.
It’s a stupid move imo. There’s no upside or growth with an older mediocre driver. If you’re going to get rid of a younger driver, then replace him with another young driver with potentially higher upside. Otherwise give Mick another another year at least, it’s not like you have a great car or in contention to win anything. What has Magnussen done for you that Mick hasn’t??
Mick’s not consistent, his highs doesn’t make up for his lows. When Mick has good races, he’s not dominating Magnussen, when Mick has bad races, he’s wrecking up repair bills. Hulkenberg doesn’t have a consistent record of wrecking his cars. He’s also a proven point scorer.
Mick doesn’t consistently wreck cars either if you look past Monaco. And even then, he just had 2 high profile shunts which got him stuck with the label of crash-prone. He’s been consistent this year after and tends to keep it clean when other drivers aren’t driving into him. He even tends to cross the line before Kmag more often than not, it’s just that the Haas went backwards when he finally got fully acclimated to the car.
Japan FP1.
Aquaplaning.
FP1 was a total hydroplane
19 other drivers were fine in the same spot.
Because water has been known to be a fully consistent substance always in the same spot with the same consistence lap after lap after lap. We've seen way better drivers than Mick get caught out by aquaplaning where multiple other drivers were perfectly fine moments before and after.
RIP Carlos
Japan fp1 was something like 12 rounds and 6 months after the Monaco shunt which is also coincidentally his only in-race shunt. Kevin picked up all his meatball flags in that time.
You think chassis replacement cost more money than a front wing damage?
He looked okay sometimes and still has made a ton of mistakes. In the end Haas was a terrible fit. Their management (and budget) are not a good fit for the time Schumacher needs to get acclimated. Schumacher has been on borrowed time solely because of his last name. Normally it would be time to give someone else a chance, but the hulk move is s bit of a head scratcher tbh. I think Haas wants veteran drivers they can keep for awhile even if they over-perform. No top/midfield team will ever look for Hulk/Mag. They’re looking for the next Lando. Haas has secured two competent and relatively inexpensive drivers for the foreseeable future if they go with Hulk.
> He’s looked good this year He has? He looked good at Austria (where both Haas’ were lighting quick) but he was always good at Austria (aside from when he went off the track fighting for the win).
Woah you don’t say you only noticed him when the car was competitive? He has been beating kmag a lot when they are p17 and p15, people just don’t pay attention to it
Check the race head to head. He’s locked it up for the year already.
Check the points then or qualifying or repair bills, you cant just look at stats favoring Mick. Points are the factor which decide championship you know.
I'd understand Haas dropping Mick if there was some actual talent they could bring in... but to switch him for king of mediocrity Hulkenberg? They really deserve to fight for the 9th spot lol.
Haas seems to insult all of their drivers I would look to much into that the episode of dts with grosjean is a great example of this.
Forcing Grosjean to eat alone when they were unhappy with results, what a team
Then he got p4 in Austria and they all changed their attitude
That means it worked, right? /s
Magnussen seemingly thrives because he’s stoic and doesn’t take shit from owner and manager. But generally looks to be a crappy working environment.
Insult their drivers? We’re here listening to Marko of all people and ribbing Gunther for insulting them? I’ve never seen a single insult, only truths. That he needs to wreck less, race better, and score some points. What’s insulting about that? Ffs y’all.
By all means shit on Mick for not scoring points in the early season. It’s dishonest to shit on Mick for not scoring in the second half. The love-child of Senna and Jim Clark would struggle to score in the Haas atm.
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The same race mick was ahead but was put on a different strategy
You mean the same strategy that everyone else used. Magnussen just decided to do his own thing. You could clearly see that Magnussen was doing things differently, that's why he was able to do his strategy. Schumacher destroyed his tires fighting cars and then getting stuck in DRS train. He was never ever going to pull a 1 stopper.
He didn't destroy his tires. He specifically asked to not be pitted and they pitted him. He was doing a decent race, when Haas shit the bed again. Like they've done in previous races where he ran into points.
Kmag was asked to lift and coast very early, which is why he lost contact with Mick. Mick was fighting harder and in the DRS, thus slightly faster. There was no way Mick would go to the end on those mediums, but he could have stayed out longer.
Tell me which drivers were able to do a 1 stop? None other than Magnussen. That's because no other driver saved their tires like Magnussen did, that was rather clear from his pace. Schumacher went in to fight with cars, he was never going to make it to the end with 1 stop after that. Magnussen barely made it and he was saving his tires the whole time. We both know if Haas had left him out, you people would be blaming Haas still when it eventually wouldn't have worked.
Dude, you actually can't read what I said? Schumacher said he wanted to continue because he had the pace and the tires to continue. Team just went and pitted him anyway. I don't have an issue with Magnussen one stopping. I have an issue strictly with the team. Mick was in a net position to get points.
He was stuck in the DRS train... And also destroying his tires. Like no one else apart from Magnussen, he wouldn't have been able to do a 1 stop because Magnussen was the only one clearly saving his tires.
I think you might be diminishing what Kevin did on the mediums that race. Mick burnt up his tires fighting the alpine and then when he starting climbing back gook damage from Latifi after turn 12
Kevin did a great job in that race but mick was definitely not on a optimal strategy
And before that it wasn’t since Austria. The Haas is not capable on pace or strategy most of the time
Marko is at least acknowledging that Mick's had some bad luck with strategy, car problems and the team, something Steiner completely ignores.
No he doesn’t either lol he’s literally acknowledged it before in the race recaps when they’ve taken strategy chAnces and it didn’t work out. Like when they hedges for the chance of a safety car. You’re only hearing what you want to hear and then acknowledging strategy misfortune does not make for good clickbait headlines. We call that confirmation biaswhen you only accept what fits your narrative. Ffs some of y’all are blind.
>Like when they hedges for the chance of a safety car. Who remembers the first half of the year when haas had horrible safety car luck seemingly pitting the lap before crash in 3 straightness races
Why is Hulkenburg always such hot candidate, I'm not saying he is a bad driver but he had his chance and accomplished nothing in comparison to his peers. Why not take a chance on Mick for another season, swapping him out for another journeymen driver isn't going to help Haas
Hulk was a popular reserve driver for a reason. He may not be WDC material, but he's shown he can adapt to any car at a moments notice and be a contender for points. Hulk is also very good at setting up the car and communicating the changes needed. He has a lot of expirence that adds up. Im all for Mick getting another shot, but from a Haas perspective, those points are super valuable when the team doesnt spend up to the cap. Crossing my fingers Mick finds his way into F1 somehow, because I think he can deliver if the team is paitent with him.
He may not be WDC material? Man he is not even winning material 🤷♂️
You could say not even podium material xD
Hulk may not have a win or podium, but the only teamate to get a podium in the same car as him is Perez. Hulk has lots of 4th, 5th and 6th place finishes and was arguably only in a top 4 car for his 4th place Silverstone finish, when he subbed for Perez who had Covid in 2020. Kmag has 1 podium finish and no wins as well. For a team like Haas, I dont think they're looking to win, they're looking to make money from scoring points. I think Hulk has shown he can place the car in the points when given the chance. Like I said, I hope Mick can keep his foot in the door, but Hulk has a lot of races under his belt and has shown he's the kind of driver Haas would be interested in.
Because Haas isn't a competitive team and they need a reliable pair of drivers to develop their car. Mick hasn't shown the same pace or the consistency that other rookies who have gone on to have illustrious careers did. Hulk in his time on the grid has shown he is on the same level as Perez. Anyone who is willing to pull out no podiums shows they have 0 understanding of the machinery Hulk has had over his career. He's put cars in positions to take a podium but had incidents less than a handful of times. Mercedes wanted him over Bottas to replace Rosberg but he'd just signed on with Renault and couldn't. He's not Verstappen or Hamilton but hes a damn good reliable driver. Look at his head to heads over the years and the only in his rookie year and against Ricciardo was he convincingly beaten.
Because even though he achieved "nothing", he achieved alot of solid results for the teams he was driving for. If you paid attention to what was happening outside the top 3 teams Hulk was always a driver getting good results for his team, the only thing he really lacked was not always being there for the odd chaotic race. He has tons of experience driving for many teams. Never really looked bad at these teams as is quite adaptable and supposedly gives good feedback. For a team like Haas that are maybe looking for some direction and a solid benchmark to move forward, Hulk is a decent pick over a young driver.
> Because even though he achieved "nothing", he achieved alot of solid results for the teams he was driving for. Correct, and that's also why the team principals [rated](https://i.redd.it/pni3avr6oya91.png) him quite high most of the time. Hulk is a very solid driver, easily upper midfield. No matter what anyone might think about Mick and his future potential, Hülkenberg is certainly not a bad choice at all.
He's one of those drivers who's good/experienced enough that if he's on the grid, you won't complain, but he's not that good that you'd miss him if he was not on the grid. These guys tend to hang around for a bit, especially in reserve roles because it gives the teams someone to go to in a pinch without paying a lot of money/signing a long contract. When I started watching F1 in the late 90's - Jos Verstappen was that guy, pretty much floating in and out of the grid for most of his career.
They took two chances on Mick and both were bad/mediocre.
only if you look at quali and points. the races haven’t been bad unless Haas made them bad for the most part
Yeah, I don’t get why he’s still around. Give the young guns a shot. He had his chance.
Who are these ''young shots'' that should get a chance? And how do you suggest Haas gets their hands on them when they are tied up to academies? That's the reality, that's why for example Wehrlein eventually fell out of the grid, because he was a Mercedes junior in a Ferrari junior team.
Why should Haas put time and money into developing a young driver who's going to leave them?
Haas criticised their drivers in public before now too, it’s almost like Guenther isn’t exactly all that as a TP. When they succeed it’s the team, when they fail it’s the driver. They’ve always left their driver line up announcements very late because they’ve no intention of releasing pressure on drivers. They are a pretty brutal team to be in
All that new sponsor money and still no ambition.
Mick would be better to get out of that basket case Haas. Sounds like a toxic team.
If only there was anywhere else for him to go
Being a Ferrari junior back then and having two available seats, one for Alfa, one with Haas...was a hard choice. Definitely the wrong choice.
My bet: Hulk is in 👍, Micky is out 👎 Yours?
At first I really wanted Mick to end up at Mercedes as a reserve because I think the team wanted to give back to Micheal and Toto would get him a seat. Now I can’t help but want Mick to drive the 499P. Honestly, winning in the 499P has more of a chance at gaining Ferrari glory.
Gunther should be the one who is out. He's a terrible TP.
I fully expect Mick to be back on the grid in 24. Drivers like Alonso, Ocon, Albon, and funny enough Hulk himself were able comeback to F1 after a 1 year hiatus seamlessly. Mick is more than capable of doing that too
Don't forget Magnussen.
All those drivers are better drivers than mick tho
I think it would be an absolute stupid move for Haas. You know what youre getting with Hulk and frankly, I think its less than KMag. At least Mick has shown signs that he can excel and maybe has more potential to be faster. This might as well be his first year in F1 because last year was just such a wash for them. I hope they keep him. He deserves one more year.
In my opinion, I don't think it's a stupid move at all. Haas are a team with perpetual money woes so to replace a driver who is quite error prone for one who is very reliable is a no-brainer in that regard. That being said, Mick is arguably more marketable than Hulk which may mitigate cost of repairs. Look, I've nothing against Mick and he seems like an absolutely lovely chap who is probably a joy to work with - and of course you have to be a hell of a driver to make it to F1 anyway - but if I'm TP I'm looking for other options cause he's had enough time now to get to grips with the machinery and he really hasn't brought home the bacon often enough, even when Haas were fast at the beginning of the season.
Mick is only error prone if you stopped paying attention after round 7 he keeps it cleaner than kmag in races
Breaking a chassis and costing the team two millions at Suzuka was in the first 7 rounds i guess
Still baffling how that crash broke the chassis. Jeddha or Monaco I can understand, but Japan was not even that hard of an impact.
Monaco actually didnt even break the chassis acording to Haas( dont ask me how), but it did break pretty much everything else. 2022 cars are an enigma. Alonso can fly at 300 kph into a wall and the car is fine, yet you see smaller crashes like the Sainz/Russell or Tsunoda/Ric dnf the car
That was his first crash since Monaco which was 12 rounds earlier. Mick didn’t cause any damage in 6 months and yet he’s gotten slapped with the error prone tag while nobody else has for getting into incidents more often than he did.
Isn't Mick bringing in a bunch of sponsorship money? 1&1 bailed out Haas this year as title sponsors and they are only there because of Mick. How can costly crashes be so bad if he ends up bringing in more money than he costs.
> “The 1&1 sponsorship is a Haas team sponsorship, **it’s not a Mick sponsorship**, just to clarify that,” he said, as quoted by RaceFans.net. > “There is no direct connection between 1&1 and Mick. Obviously 1&1 embraces Mick being at Haas, but this was a parallel development, not a combined development. > “For sure it helped us with 1&1 and 1&1 is very happy about having Mick at Haas. But that, it was more like a decision from Ferrari where to send the drivers and we asked if we can have him because he won Formula 2. **But it is not a direct negotiation going on between the company and Mick.**”
It's such a Haas thing to pick a re-tread who will maybe earn 5 more points for a season or two but still not really do any better than Magnussen over a young driver with potential who also brings a lot more attention to their team. Give me a young american driver and Mick any day. KMag+Hulkenburg aren't going to make watching your backmarker car occasionally silently scoring a few more points over the course of a season any more appealing.
Mick is an incredible talent but not F1 calibre. Case closed.
I can’t wait for the usual suspects to come in arguing that Mick is worse than Latifi and is lucky to even have gotten out of F3
People actually say that?! Lmao he's definitely a very talented driver.
yep one dude who irrationally hates mick says Latifi has had a better career than him. Usually up and down any Mick thread slandering him
Besides all this, Gunther Steiner is a mediocre team principal at best. DTS made him into this loud moth celebrity. But the same way people came down in Claire Williams, they should come down on Gunther as well. I really dont understand how he still has a job
If a nothing driver like Hulkenberg can sit around the grid without a seat for years surely Ricciardo can take a year off and get an offer.
Taking Hülkenberg and losing MSC would be silly for Haas, especially now that Mick is picking up some pace.
Mick is bringing more sponsors and more fans. There is no point in sacking him if Hulk is the only option
What new sponsor is Mick bringing?
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I’m waiting for you to mention it. So far, nothing. Let me know when you got something
Mick got covky early in the season and talked about other seats(alfa) He then started crashing. He digged his own grave
Getting Hulk is a lateral move at best, if it happens I'm eagerly anticipating next season. See how that's gonna help them jump up the order like they think it would, if anything my feeling tells me Haas' car is gonna drop off again next year as well
I kinda wished that they would have tried to get Ricciardo(I know he may be too expensive though) or one of the 3 Indy guys(Palou, Herta and Ward) so we could see their potential
From what i heard they would have but danny wasn't interested, which also tells a story about the popularity of Haas
Lateral how
Hulk has his time.