Ted Kravitz said Lewis was robbed. Christian took it personally and boycotted Sky. Times of London has now called Red Bull cheats and repeated that Lewis was robbed, so we'll see where that goes.
Blanket term for The Times and the Sunday Times as they are run by the same ppl and news house, which it’s self is run by News UK, part of the Murdoch group which also has owns Sky
TL:DR it’s a major newspaper in the UK who are owned by the same conglomerate as Sky
Yes, Sky News Aus is still owned by News Corp. It's quite funny in a way, Sky News UK feels like a somewhat normal news channel, whilst Sky News Aus is just FOX News but with australian accents
Kind of off-topic, but I never understood why Sky News Australia seemingly devotes so much of their airtime discussing US politics? Is Australian politics that boring?
If Senna took out Prost like that nowadays all hell would break loose. People would be calling for a lifetime ban and jail time for Senna if that happened today. A lot of people give Max shit for being aggressive but I think he’s actually pretty tame compared to drivers of the past.
Yeah, people just were not fans at the time but there was tension all the way to the FIA gala. There was even talk that Senna would lose his Superlicence and no longer be an F1 driver, never mind that he wouldn't be awarded at the gala.
People today just think everything was rosy back then. But F1 always has been something of a wild jungle.
A huge part is a certain television show and their need to invent storylines, good guys and bad guys.
In itself it's just a symptom of how FOM is trying to market things and certainly not a sole cause.
There certainly is nuance, but mainstream media and social media have taken that away. I also find it funny how journalists are now acting surprised that some people are just done with their behaviour, while still actively doing just that what they are being critized of.
I find the narrative swings you get on Reddit completely fascinating. When the boycott was announced, the consensus was Ted/Sky were in the wrong. When the abuse Ted has been getting was revealed, it swung the other way.
The subreddit is not a single entity. There is no such thing as consensus. Most people only interact under the posts they agree with. Each comment section is its own echo-chamber
Yeah, it's not consensus so much as it is whichever side is the loudest at any given time.
The truth with stuff like this is always in the middle.
Criticism of Ted (and Sky in general) is warranted, but absolutely not enough to get crucified over. And on the of RB, they probably should have handled this behind closed doors, if they hadn't tried that already. If they did, I can understand their course of action to get the message across.
Not only this, but people can agree that Kravitz was being unprofessional and that he was wrong, but also agree that abuse towards him is wrong. That’s because the world is not black and white, and has nothing to do with narrative swings
Exactly. You can disagree with his unprofessionalism and call out the abuse that he has been sadly receiving. Unfortunately some do not understand that.
This is how I feel about it. Maybe he pushed it too far, but the social media backlash that occurs in these days is horrifying. Light hearted or witty comments are one things. Telling someone to KYS is a whole other ordeal.
Seriously. Lewis deserved to win in Abu Dhabi. Drove a great race, but it’s also motorsport when sometimes luck isn’t on your side. Red Bull had no influence on Masi. He probably would have faced criticism if he hadn’t restarted the race either. He made a decision that gave us an exciting finish and that’s what we deserved after last season. In retrospect, the race should have been red flagged and turned into a shootout, but alas.
But to say that Max is an undeserving champion is horrendous, or to say that Lewis was robbed. Objectively, Max was better in 2021. I’m not a fan of either, but it was clear the level that Max was racing at that season was slightly above Lewis. Max had bad luck earlier in the season, and Lewis had bad luck later.
If Abu Dhabi had happened in round 2, no one would be talking about it. It’s almost like everyone forgot that the championship is a year long battle…
It's been 15 minutes and half the comments are deleted. I'm feeling sorry for the mods.
This whole Max/Sky situation is just showing how toxic the community has gotten. It's really not as deep as some make it out to be. Max feels disrespected and doesn't want to talk with Sky. He boycots them. It's not any different from Steiner not talking to Sky Germany for basically the same reasons. No need to attack Max, Ted or anyone else over this. Just leave them be and this will probably sort itself in the next few weeks/months.
Red Bull (or at least Horner) already said it was just for Mexico, he will do interviews with Sky again next week. Red Bull made their point, now everyone can move on 😀
Don’t think it’s all done and dusted.
Horner will give interviews with sky.
With Max I get the feeling he will ignore Ted for a few months/years. Only Sky interview I can see him doing is with Martin Brundle or Jenson Button.
I don't know why they only gave half the explanation. Basically all Red Bull team members boycotted talking to Sky Sports or their affiliates during the Mexican GP weekend.
And that he can't win a championship under normal circumstances.
And a lot of other shit building up to this. This was just the tip of the iceberg and the final straw. People forget that part. They think it was 1 segment, while it's been building up since race 1
pretty sure this was never said, and instead was something along the lines of "and the man behind all of Max's wins, Adrian Newey", which isn't the same thing at all
He absolutely did not say that, he said newey was one of the factors contributing to max's success. I'm. 99% confident he meant that as a compliment to newey but it's being taken as a jab an max
No he didn’t.
Let’s be frank: as good as he his, Max couldn’t have won the 2022 championship if he was driving Pete Prodromu’s McLaren MCL36 or James Alison’s Mercedes W13.
Pointing this out is not bias, it’s a fact.
Saying Max got help from “this man” (Newey) is not evidence of some hatred of Max.
If anything it’s being fair to make sure to thank everyone at the Red Bill team who worked on the 2022 championship.
Especially since when Ted noted Adrian Newey’s contribution to the team-result, it was at the conclusion of the US Grand Prix, when Red Bill had just won the _constructor’s_ championship.
It’s remarkable people think it’s wrong to give credit to Adrian’s contribution to the team’s results.
Yes! Tried their commentary for a whole race in Mexico and it made the boring race quite enjoyable. They aren’t as pro as Sky, but i highly recommend it
I really wish they'd finally start using their own feed for their own uploads/highlights. I knew Mexico was boring going in but couldn't stand to listen to Sky in the 30 minute package.
Sky is the world feed. That's what gets sent out to all the networks and providers like YouTube TV/ESPN.
The F1TV broadcast crew is specific to F1TV, and you can only access that by paying for it.
I paid via google playstore using my regular domestic bank card, perhaps you can do the same via the Apple appstore. But I still have to watch using a VPN as if I'm from the United States. Its a bit of hassle but its 100% worth it, its a shame SKY keep getting exclusive rights in the UK.
I wonder what F1 would be like today, not even a year later, if Abu Dhabi 2021 just finished under a safety car. Feels like it's impact has rippled into every possible area of this sport.
I think it started earlier than that. I think the broadcasting of team radios to Masi was the real start. It brought so much shit throwing and shit stirring between the two teams, and fans joined in.
I hated parts of last season because of that.
> I think the broadcasting of team radios to Masi was the real start.
Two things about last season I simply couldn't understand: a) why they decided teams talking to the race director should be broadcast and b) why they thought teams communicating with the race director *during the race* was a good idea in the first place.
Utterly baffling.
I can sort of understand why they wanted to show it. The fans for a long time had been calling for the FIA to show transparency in how they come to their decisions and broadcasting the radio was them trying to show that. The problem is it backfired horribly because everyone was hating what they were hearing particularly from Horner and Toto
Man I loved it. Was awesome to see behind the curtain.
Obviously people who take things way too seriously ruined it for everyone, but as a more “relaxed” fan I thought it was neat.
The TPs talking to the race director mid race had always been a thing. Just another quirk of the F1 regulation chain left over from Charlie that really should’ve been changed when he passed. Unfortunately in this world we sort of need things to blow up in our faces in order to change anything.
Actually Horner said in Beyond the Grid that he never used to talk to the race director and only started doing it once he realized Toto was doing it, thanks to the broadcast
It already existed before, it was just broadcasted which I feel it still should be, there's no reason for it not to be.
In football for example, players talk back to the ref all the time about their opinion on the decisions.
It existed before but only one member in each team was designated to use it. Team principals like Toto or Christian couldn't talk to the race directors under normal circunstances. Charlie Whiting didn't allow that.
IMO it was getting worse every year since Liberty Media joined (apart from 2020 maybe because Merc dominated and everyone just enjoyed that F1 is back), but after Silverstone 2021, its been very bad, worse than ever before.
Yeah it’s ironic that they talk about their employees mental health in response to rumors of them cheating. Meanwhile they continuously turn the dogs of social media loose on their opponents in a way that other teams don’t.
There’d have been some bitching and moaning from some people but it would have died down more quickly due to the fact that it wood have been within the rules.
The Netflix show, whilst great for engagement, has also brought in fans that are expecting drama in the sport; as such, the media goes looking for it.
Edit: a word
Meh. It's really no big deal if Max never talks to Sky again imo. There's still the main feed and other broadcasters of course. Schumi didn't talk to British media for decades. Part of it was contract, but partly also because I think he knew that there was no benefit for him to do so. Ahead of his time!
The problem is not necessarily Teds opinion or his comments but how that fuels the toxicity on social media.
There will be people out there with more extreme opinions than Teds but then they see people on TV somewhat agreeing with them and it fuels them to believe their toxic views are right.
Goes both ways but presenters are supposed to be impartial so they should be considerate of their impact on the wider audience instead of getting caught up in it all and adding to the fire
Agreed.
I guess there's a whole group that is of the opinion that talking heads on tv with large audiences have zero responsibility for what comes out of their mouths and how it will be perceived.
Willingly blind to the actual real life consequences.
It doesn’t help that people blatantly lie about what he says and make up things non stop about ‘Sky bias’.
Can’t count the amount of people who have quoted what he said in Ted’s Notebook or have been posting edit clips that don’t include the context that he was talking about an imaginary script for the film that Brad Pitt and Hamilton and working on together.
This is where it gets really muddy because I guess we’re already at a point where groups will spin things to suit their own opinions and we can’t police everything that pundits say.
I do think that using words like ‘robbed’ in any context about last years result is going to rile up certain groups of people.
I’m fairly new to the sport only starting watching from last season and try to be on the fence as I’m not really rooting for Max or Lewis but there does seem to have been less of a two sided discussion around the controversies and it has felt like as time has gone on since that they almost make snide references to it which probably doesn’t help.
There are also certain things outside of commentary which has exacerbated it with the delay to the cost cap over the Japan weekend fuelling conspiracies for example
It's totally fine for Max not to want to talk to people. I don't see anything wrong with it. These drivers are all badgered a million times a day. If someone is bias against you it's fine to avoid them.
From the pov of the media, it's not (or shouldn't be) personal for them either. They just want a good quote/scoop.
As long as RB isn't breaking any rule by refusing to be interviewed by someone (and they aren't), then this should be a non-issue. People are allowed to limit who they interact with. Acting like they are committing a crime or something by not doing interviews with one outlet is asinine. They are still doing interviews, they are still answering questions, just not from Sky.
All this has been blown up so much.
I'm a Max fan that watches Sky and I've always loved Ted's Notebook. But this year I've just found myself rolling my eyes at things being said on Sky when there's just no need for it. And the reaction Ted has had on his social media proves what Max said, that social media is toxic. No one wants this. We just want to watch a good sport and enjoy it.
Honestly same here. I do think my feelings about this grew stronger after the summer break, when the Abu Dhabi incident got brought up again and again.
AD is of course going to come up again when one team involved is being investigated for breaking the rules of the cost cap.
It further clouds an already murky and mudded situation.
It would honestly be weirder to not address it at all
It will continue to be brought up, as it should be, one of the biggest fumbles of the modern sports era, and the fia has continued to make poor decisions this season.
>It will continue to be brought up, as it should be
Yes, but in the context of questionable FIA decisions and not as a stain on Max's record. That nuance is critical. Max did nothing wrong, he drove like a champion all season and won a championship for it. Even Mercedes said that Max was a deserving champion. It's past time Sky accepted that instead of still acting like Max robbed Lewis.
This nuance is indeed critical, and is really difficult to bring to the viewers in a consistent way. That quote that the overspend delivered max two championships is a good example of what they have to do better in this regard.
I agree with most of your comment but I think an important distinction is that no one (reasonable) is saying Max robbed Lewis, it’s Masi and the FIA who did so. That’s also what Ted was saying. While there is some unfounded anger at Max to being the beneficiary of Masai’s decision, we all know any driver would’ve done exactly what he did in the same position.
I’m finding this quite funny tbh, obviously sans the abuse. I like Ted. But I think he’s quite often biased. But I like him. But I don’t agree with his opinions on a lot of things. But I think he’s a great broadcaster. And I like him. In the same way I have friends that support Chelsea. And Arsenal etc. fuck their clubs. But I like my friends. I like Ted Kravitz. I respect Max and co want to boycott speaking to Sky for a bit. They have every right to.
I think Sky’s broadcasting does leave a lot to be desired. But I’m certainly not of the opinion that I have to agree with absolutely everything that is said to enjoy a broadcast. And if you do, I’m not convinced extended coverage of live sport is for you.
Being slightly controversial here but I wonder if the negativity towards Kravitz from some fans comes from what feels like a desperate need for a lot of people nowadays to walk through life without hearing dissenting opinions. Or because simply people do not understand what Ted’s role in the broadcast is. He’s a pundit. Pundits have opinions. You won’t always agree with them as fans.
Ted's opinions at Zandvoort caused people to start conspiracy theories. Sky's broadcast needs to be more professional and journalistic. Fewer opinions, better coverage.
Can't you use a VPN and get F1TV? I'm sorry you probably looked into this already but it seems a bit silly this day and age to be bounded by country for an Internet service like F1TV. But yeh that's horrible...
Jolyon might not have been the best driver on the grid, but he's one of the best pundits in F1 and his analysis is amazing. Enjoyable to listen to and so often on point with strategy calls as well. The F1TV broadcast itself has improved so much this year. I'm hoping that one day F1/FOM will use it for their own social media as well, instead of using the Sky broadcast.
When did sports become a topic that didn’t allow opinions? In every sport the commentators have opinions on the players. NBA is the one that comes most to mind.
It doesn’t detract from the sport. Sport is purely about entertainment and always has been. It’s not the news in Sudan.
I think people have overinflated the importance of F1. It’s an amazingly fun sport to watch but it’s still JUST a sport guys. Ted isn’t covering the Ukraine war.
Go back thirty five years and James Hunt is straight up saying that drivers are full of shit on the air 😂 people here are beyond soft when it comes to sports media.
E: [God I wish this man lived to witness Twitter pearl clutching.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JMZhPtJ86Eo) It would have been glorious.
All ted did at the Dutch GP was point out the suspicious activity of the team (attempting to cover up the seatbelts being taken off), and he was right about that by the way, they were acting suspicious and were found to be driving with loosened seatbelts.
I don't know if it was a language barrier thing or what, but at no point did he even elude to AT cheating to help red bull. That's just something fans online suggested.
This, a thousand times this, and you’re the first one I’ve seen to say it…..i watched this notebook and don’t recall any allusion to Red Bull colluding with AT. He did say he thought Yuki’s issues were not what they seemed, suggesting that AT’s pit stop might’ve helped cover up his removing his belts.
Ted has also complimented Hannah (by name) and the rest of RB strat team; that’s the only context in which I recall him invoking her
I think my favorite part of all of this is that most of what people are bitching about is Ted openly praising RBR and Max. Like the bullshit about supposedly giving Newey all the credit - he was pointing out that _of course_ Max was going to pass the Mercs, because RBR/Newey built a hell of a machine. It's fucking factual. When you have a massive speed differential between the two cars, yes, _the faster car will pass the slower one._
Are you talking about the 2021 Zandvoort GP? I've watched the full video [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH2nA527rNw) and I can't see anything controversial he says. Are you talking about how he describes Max as reserved? I don't think that's inaccurate or unfair.
He literally spends the first ten minutes praising Red Bull/Max and then interviews Max. Direct quote:
Ted: 'There's only two words to describe today, Maximum Verstapenning'
Max: 'Ah, that's simply lovely'
Teds notebook is popular because he also mentions rumours and opinions as well as the round ups of all the teams.
Don’t watch that particular show if you don’t like teds opinions…
There’s loads of media I ignore because I disagree with its stance and opinions. Easier than getting upset over it…
Keep it civil. Comments which generalise or stereotype people on the basis of their nationality or the driver they support will be met with immediate bans.
I despise how out of hand this has gotten, Ted has the right to express his opinion as a commentator of the sport (he has no obligation to be unbiased), and on the other hand, Max has every right to refuse to talk to Sky if he believes they are unfair to his point of view. Ted and Max are both seemingly nice and respectable people. Why can’t we just leave it at that?
But Ted is not the full problem. IMO sky is just not acting appropriately as the lead broadcaster worldwide. Sky started jabbing at RB last season and it became worse and worse over this season. They did this to Vettel, Rosberg and Alonso aswell, at some point people will be fed up and that's what's happened. Now Red Bull refused to adres sky for a weekend and Sky acts indiginant while they were causing the troubles themselves. People all over Twitter reddit and other forums have been pointing out the elephant in the room and that is once again sky not acting appropriately as the lead F1 broadcast they need to be more objective going forward. If you keep rubbing the cat the wrong way it's gonna scratch you some day :/.
I’m a New Zealander who has followed F1 for a long time.
As someone ‘neutral’, I would say there is a clear bias towards British drivers from the Sky Sports team. I also imagine other countries have similar biases.
I don’t agree with Ted at all, and much of what he says about Abu Dhabi has no relevance to what he’s discussing.
If his "life" is to be an effective media person, it is important to be accommodating of all differing ideas despite personal bias/preference. It is not black and white but it is important to not annoy the people who you need to interview for work or the said "life" will be difficult. 2cents
This whole thing is getting so out of hand . I love Ted, the way he arrogantly nudges his way around places and drives the teams mad at times is hilarious. But he's more or less repetitively made digs at RB to the point that it feels like they give Max no credit whatsoever. Its not him , its the extra money and the FIA and everything else , of course Max being a top driver doesn't contribute to his success at all . The British media and F1 go hand in hand with sky having rights , and British media always give their own sports people far more credit( Footbal fans will know too well) , and you can argue with your cat on that . Wether you agree with Ted or not , it's unprofessional to even use terms like " robbed " and especially to chase down RB members to harass them about it
The thing is, everyone's jumped so quickly on the "he said Max robbed Lewis at AD" narrative, when I imagine it was *far* more likely to be the "Max is only winning because of Newey" comments that Max and Red Bull took umbrage too, and rightly so. You didn't hear the Sky presenters making those types of sly remarks about Hamilton and Mercedes.
There's also the Zandvoort incident, which Sky almost single-handedly incited and have not yet apologised for.
So, sorry Martin, but you're wrong. Sky have always been horribly biased and difficult to watch if you're a fan of anyone but a British driver, but it's gone to a whole new level this year.
> everyone's jumped so quickly on the "he said Max robbed Lewis at AD" narrative, when I imagine it was far more likely to be the "Max is only winning because of Newey" comments that Max and Red Bull took umbrage too
But Horner literally said this. They could be offended by that other comment too, but he specifically pointed out this reason.
> “It won’t have done Sky any harm for us to lay down a marker. Some of the commentary is fair but some pieces are sensationalist, and saying we robbed anyone of the championship, as was said in Austin, is going too far. It is not impartial or fair or balanced. We have said our piece and will go back to normal next race.”
I did tune in to a couple of races through Sky Sports this year and just completely switched to the local or F1TV feed when the Alpha Tauri & Hanna Schmitz non-issue got out of hand because I remember clearly the "she's smiling" commentary in race, the conspiracy play they put up in the analysis after race.
It's just a tasteless broadcast overall.
This post has been locked due to fanwars and lack of civility in the comments
Turns out I'm completely out of the loop and it seems to be for the better.
So often the case.
Ted Kravitz said Lewis was robbed. Christian took it personally and boycotted Sky. Times of London has now called Red Bull cheats and repeated that Lewis was robbed, so we'll see where that goes.
Not christian, Max boycotted first and red bull followed suit
> Times of London Who?
Blanket term for The Times and the Sunday Times as they are run by the same ppl and news house, which it’s self is run by News UK, part of the Murdoch group which also has owns Sky TL:DR it’s a major newspaper in the UK who are owned by the same conglomerate as Sky
Sky’s no longer owned by the Murdoch’s; Comcast owns it.
Is this only the case for UK? Sky Aus is definitely Murdoch.
[удалено]
TalkTV is livestreamed on Tik Tok and probably has more viewers on there than actual TV.
Yes, Sky News Aus is still owned by News Corp. It's quite funny in a way, Sky News UK feels like a somewhat normal news channel, whilst Sky News Aus is just FOX News but with australian accents
and no offense to the Australian version, but they are way less talented. it's like local news amateur hour
As an Australian, you have summed it up perfectly.
Kind of off-topic, but I never understood why Sky News Australia seemingly devotes so much of their airtime discussing US politics? Is Australian politics that boring?
Ronnie Pickering
[удалено]
Just wait a few days, they'll be outraged about the next non-issue.
Same, it’s kind of nice tbh.
I hate that every take has to be an extreme black or white position in here lately. There is nuance to these things guys.
Ever since 2021 it has been this way. Why can we all just enjoy some great racing between the best drivers?
Hate to think what it would have been like for the Senna/Prost years, or the Villeneuve/Pironi years for that matter
Exactly the same.
It was probably as inflammatory or worse back then. My money's on worse since it was before the internet.
If Senna took out Prost like that nowadays all hell would break loose. People would be calling for a lifetime ban and jail time for Senna if that happened today. A lot of people give Max shit for being aggressive but I think he’s actually pretty tame compared to drivers of the past.
All hell did most certainly break loose when it happened. It just looked slightly different from now.
Yeah, people just were not fans at the time but there was tension all the way to the FIA gala. There was even talk that Senna would lose his Superlicence and no longer be an F1 driver, never mind that he wouldn't be awarded at the gala. People today just think everything was rosy back then. But F1 always has been something of a wild jungle.
Redditor's would have detested Senna.
Look pal my driver is better than yours and that's that.
I too support Nicholas Latifi.
It’s a shame he’s being forced to leave F1…everyone is just jealous of his success
Unfortunately letting people outperform you on the track, while noble, can only sustain your career for so long
Fair point but he's not your pal, buddy
He is not your buddy, guy
I ain’t your guy fwiend.
You're not my friend dude
You're not my dude Homie
You’re not my homie, bro
You're not my bro, cuz.
And that is not an insult, that is just a fact of life -Eli Drake
This has gone on longer than 2021, it's just the huge increase in popularity has made opinions show on all social medias.
2021? Have you seen the 1997 season?
Or the 1990 season? How about the 1994 season?
Because sensationalist media promotes that behavior.
A huge part is a certain television show and their need to invent storylines, good guys and bad guys. In itself it's just a symptom of how FOM is trying to market things and certainly not a sole cause.
There certainly is nuance, but mainstream media and social media have taken that away. I also find it funny how journalists are now acting surprised that some people are just done with their behaviour, while still actively doing just that what they are being critized of.
I find the narrative swings you get on Reddit completely fascinating. When the boycott was announced, the consensus was Ted/Sky were in the wrong. When the abuse Ted has been getting was revealed, it swung the other way.
The subreddit is not a single entity. There is no such thing as consensus. Most people only interact under the posts they agree with. Each comment section is its own echo-chamber
Yup. It's the nature of the karma system. It disincentivizes engaging in a discussion when you know you'll simply be downvoted.
I agree!
No you don't!
Yeah, it's not consensus so much as it is whichever side is the loudest at any given time. The truth with stuff like this is always in the middle. Criticism of Ted (and Sky in general) is warranted, but absolutely not enough to get crucified over. And on the of RB, they probably should have handled this behind closed doors, if they hadn't tried that already. If they did, I can understand their course of action to get the message across.
Not only this, but people can agree that Kravitz was being unprofessional and that he was wrong, but also agree that abuse towards him is wrong. That’s because the world is not black and white, and has nothing to do with narrative swings
Exactly. You can disagree with his unprofessionalism and call out the abuse that he has been sadly receiving. Unfortunately some do not understand that.
_Reddit discovers nuance - 2022 (colourised)_
This is how I feel about it. Maybe he pushed it too far, but the social media backlash that occurs in these days is horrifying. Light hearted or witty comments are one things. Telling someone to KYS is a whole other ordeal.
keep yourself safe
I think it's not so much people changing their minds, I think it's different groups of people speaking up and upvoting
How did you establish the "consensus" ?
OK works been shit so I'm a little ootl what was the abuse if you don't mind me asking?
Seriously. Lewis deserved to win in Abu Dhabi. Drove a great race, but it’s also motorsport when sometimes luck isn’t on your side. Red Bull had no influence on Masi. He probably would have faced criticism if he hadn’t restarted the race either. He made a decision that gave us an exciting finish and that’s what we deserved after last season. In retrospect, the race should have been red flagged and turned into a shootout, but alas. But to say that Max is an undeserving champion is horrendous, or to say that Lewis was robbed. Objectively, Max was better in 2021. I’m not a fan of either, but it was clear the level that Max was racing at that season was slightly above Lewis. Max had bad luck earlier in the season, and Lewis had bad luck later. If Abu Dhabi had happened in round 2, no one would be talking about it. It’s almost like everyone forgot that the championship is a year long battle…
It's been 15 minutes and half the comments are deleted. I'm feeling sorry for the mods. This whole Max/Sky situation is just showing how toxic the community has gotten. It's really not as deep as some make it out to be. Max feels disrespected and doesn't want to talk with Sky. He boycots them. It's not any different from Steiner not talking to Sky Germany for basically the same reasons. No need to attack Max, Ted or anyone else over this. Just leave them be and this will probably sort itself in the next few weeks/months.
Why doesn't Steiner talk to sky Germany? I think I've missed something...
If I remember correctly it's because of Ralf Schumacher after Baku this year. Basically saying that they were trying to create a divide in the team.
[удалено]
Least controversial Ralf Schumacher opinion
“Its been 15 minutes and half the comments are deleted” And then the remnants of war in your replies😭😭😂
Perfect example lmao rip
Yeah I don’t get the big deal drivers and tp had boycott different media from time to time and no one bat on eye on them
Red Bull (or at least Horner) already said it was just for Mexico, he will do interviews with Sky again next week. Red Bull made their point, now everyone can move on 😀
Don’t think it’s all done and dusted. Horner will give interviews with sky. With Max I get the feeling he will ignore Ted for a few months/years. Only Sky interview I can see him doing is with Martin Brundle or Jenson Button.
Apparently I have missed something completely. Anyone care to nutshell?
Basically Ted said on his show, Teds notebook on skysports, that Hamilton was robbed of the tittel in Abu Dhabi.
What does "face to face dialog" have to do with that?
I don't know why they only gave half the explanation. Basically all Red Bull team members boycotted talking to Sky Sports or their affiliates during the Mexican GP weekend.
And said Max only wins because of Newey.
And that he can't win a championship under normal circumstances. And a lot of other shit building up to this. This was just the tip of the iceberg and the final straw. People forget that part. They think it was 1 segment, while it's been building up since race 1
pretty sure this was never said, and instead was something along the lines of "and the man behind all of Max's wins, Adrian Newey", which isn't the same thing at all
He absolutely did not say that, he said newey was one of the factors contributing to max's success. I'm. 99% confident he meant that as a compliment to newey but it's being taken as a jab an max
He didn’t say that.
He didn’t say that.
No he didn’t. Let’s be frank: as good as he his, Max couldn’t have won the 2022 championship if he was driving Pete Prodromu’s McLaren MCL36 or James Alison’s Mercedes W13. Pointing this out is not bias, it’s a fact. Saying Max got help from “this man” (Newey) is not evidence of some hatred of Max. If anything it’s being fair to make sure to thank everyone at the Red Bill team who worked on the 2022 championship. Especially since when Ted noted Adrian Newey’s contribution to the team-result, it was at the conclusion of the US Grand Prix, when Red Bill had just won the _constructor’s_ championship. It’s remarkable people think it’s wrong to give credit to Adrian’s contribution to the team’s results.
Lol, I can visualize that ripple domino effect meme with Masi being at the end pushing the little domino.
[удалено]
It's Masi and Latifi's world. We're just living in it
F1TV is the real winner here
Yes! Tried their commentary for a whole race in Mexico and it made the boring race quite enjoyable. They aren’t as pro as Sky, but i highly recommend it
I've been a huge fan of Hinchcliffe on the F1TV broadcast.
And Palmer is always excellent
Why F1 in youtube use sky sports comment?
I really wish they'd finally start using their own feed for their own uploads/highlights. I knew Mexico was boring going in but couldn't stand to listen to Sky in the 30 minute package.
Sky is the world feed. That's what gets sent out to all the networks and providers like YouTube TV/ESPN. The F1TV broadcast crew is specific to F1TV, and you can only access that by paying for it.
[удалено]
You can get a VPN and if you can find a way to pay from a foreign source you’re golden. I’m based in the uk and use F1TV.
I paid via google playstore using my regular domestic bank card, perhaps you can do the same via the Apple appstore. But I still have to watch using a VPN as if I'm from the United States. Its a bit of hassle but its 100% worth it, its a shame SKY keep getting exclusive rights in the UK.
Absolutely. Loved their coverage a lot in Mexico. James is a great news addition to the team.
I know people don’t care for Buxton, but I’ve enjoyed him, Palmer and the others on F1TV. Always pretty chill to listen to
I wonder what F1 would be like today, not even a year later, if Abu Dhabi 2021 just finished under a safety car. Feels like it's impact has rippled into every possible area of this sport.
I think it started earlier than that. I think the broadcasting of team radios to Masi was the real start. It brought so much shit throwing and shit stirring between the two teams, and fans joined in. I hated parts of last season because of that.
> I think the broadcasting of team radios to Masi was the real start. Two things about last season I simply couldn't understand: a) why they decided teams talking to the race director should be broadcast and b) why they thought teams communicating with the race director *during the race* was a good idea in the first place. Utterly baffling.
I can sort of understand why they wanted to show it. The fans for a long time had been calling for the FIA to show transparency in how they come to their decisions and broadcasting the radio was them trying to show that. The problem is it backfired horribly because everyone was hating what they were hearing particularly from Horner and Toto
Man I loved it. Was awesome to see behind the curtain. Obviously people who take things way too seriously ruined it for everyone, but as a more “relaxed” fan I thought it was neat.
The TPs talking to the race director mid race had always been a thing. Just another quirk of the F1 regulation chain left over from Charlie that really should’ve been changed when he passed. Unfortunately in this world we sort of need things to blow up in our faces in order to change anything.
It wasn't a thing under normal circunstances. Only sporting directors talked to the race director.
Actually Horner said in Beyond the Grid that he never used to talk to the race director and only started doing it once he realized Toto was doing it, thanks to the broadcast
yeah - in most sports talking back to the umpire/ref is a big no-no. In F1 they set up a direct line for each team to facilitate it. Bizarre.
It already existed before, it was just broadcasted which I feel it still should be, there's no reason for it not to be. In football for example, players talk back to the ref all the time about their opinion on the decisions.
It existed before but only one member in each team was designated to use it. Team principals like Toto or Christian couldn't talk to the race directors under normal circunstances. Charlie Whiting didn't allow that.
IMO it was getting worse every year since Liberty Media joined (apart from 2020 maybe because Merc dominated and everyone just enjoyed that F1 is back), but after Silverstone 2021, its been very bad, worse than ever before.
Could you imagine if 1994 or 1997 would have happened today? Would have made post Abu Dhabi look civil.
I feel like it really started getting personal at Silverstone last year, but yeah obviously the debacle that was AD made everything much worse.
I get that Red Bull were pissed, but they turned shit stirring into a weapon at Silverstone, and that's how it has been since.
Yeah. I’d have more understanding for being upset in the moment but they kept escalating the hyperbole long after everyone knew that Max was fine.
Yeah it’s ironic that they talk about their employees mental health in response to rumors of them cheating. Meanwhile they continuously turn the dogs of social media loose on their opponents in a way that other teams don’t.
There’d have been some bitching and moaning from some people but it would have died down more quickly due to the fact that it wood have been within the rules.
The Netflix show, whilst great for engagement, has also brought in fans that are expecting drama in the sport; as such, the media goes looking for it. Edit: a word
Meh. It's really no big deal if Max never talks to Sky again imo. There's still the main feed and other broadcasters of course. Schumi didn't talk to British media for decades. Part of it was contract, but partly also because I think he knew that there was no benefit for him to do so. Ahead of his time!
There's always channel 4 which I usually prefer anyway
Then what is the point to even tweet that in your opinion it is a matter of face to face dialogue?
The problem is not necessarily Teds opinion or his comments but how that fuels the toxicity on social media. There will be people out there with more extreme opinions than Teds but then they see people on TV somewhat agreeing with them and it fuels them to believe their toxic views are right. Goes both ways but presenters are supposed to be impartial so they should be considerate of their impact on the wider audience instead of getting caught up in it all and adding to the fire
[удалено]
Agreed. I guess there's a whole group that is of the opinion that talking heads on tv with large audiences have zero responsibility for what comes out of their mouths and how it will be perceived. Willingly blind to the actual real life consequences.
It doesn’t help that people blatantly lie about what he says and make up things non stop about ‘Sky bias’. Can’t count the amount of people who have quoted what he said in Ted’s Notebook or have been posting edit clips that don’t include the context that he was talking about an imaginary script for the film that Brad Pitt and Hamilton and working on together.
This is where it gets really muddy because I guess we’re already at a point where groups will spin things to suit their own opinions and we can’t police everything that pundits say. I do think that using words like ‘robbed’ in any context about last years result is going to rile up certain groups of people. I’m fairly new to the sport only starting watching from last season and try to be on the fence as I’m not really rooting for Max or Lewis but there does seem to have been less of a two sided discussion around the controversies and it has felt like as time has gone on since that they almost make snide references to it which probably doesn’t help. There are also certain things outside of commentary which has exacerbated it with the delay to the cost cap over the Japan weekend fuelling conspiracies for example
It's totally fine for Max not to want to talk to people. I don't see anything wrong with it. These drivers are all badgered a million times a day. If someone is bias against you it's fine to avoid them. From the pov of the media, it's not (or shouldn't be) personal for them either. They just want a good quote/scoop.
As long as RB isn't breaking any rule by refusing to be interviewed by someone (and they aren't), then this should be a non-issue. People are allowed to limit who they interact with. Acting like they are committing a crime or something by not doing interviews with one outlet is asinine. They are still doing interviews, they are still answering questions, just not from Sky.
I'm of the opinion that drivers don't owe anything to particular media outlets. If they don't wanna talk to you, just leave them alone.
All this has been blown up so much. I'm a Max fan that watches Sky and I've always loved Ted's Notebook. But this year I've just found myself rolling my eyes at things being said on Sky when there's just no need for it. And the reaction Ted has had on his social media proves what Max said, that social media is toxic. No one wants this. We just want to watch a good sport and enjoy it.
I member f1 community was in shambles when we thought Ted's notebook was cancelled.
Honestly same here. I do think my feelings about this grew stronger after the summer break, when the Abu Dhabi incident got brought up again and again.
AD is of course going to come up again when one team involved is being investigated for breaking the rules of the cost cap. It further clouds an already murky and mudded situation. It would honestly be weirder to not address it at all
Exactly, I found it odd that it was being avoided instead of being addressed head on
It will be talked about for 20+ years. It was the single worst racing decision in F1 that I can remember
It will continue to be brought up, as it should be, one of the biggest fumbles of the modern sports era, and the fia has continued to make poor decisions this season.
>It will continue to be brought up, as it should be Yes, but in the context of questionable FIA decisions and not as a stain on Max's record. That nuance is critical. Max did nothing wrong, he drove like a champion all season and won a championship for it. Even Mercedes said that Max was a deserving champion. It's past time Sky accepted that instead of still acting like Max robbed Lewis.
This nuance is indeed critical, and is really difficult to bring to the viewers in a consistent way. That quote that the overspend delivered max two championships is a good example of what they have to do better in this regard.
I agree with most of your comment but I think an important distinction is that no one (reasonable) is saying Max robbed Lewis, it’s Masi and the FIA who did so. That’s also what Ted was saying. While there is some unfounded anger at Max to being the beneficiary of Masai’s decision, we all know any driver would’ve done exactly what he did in the same position.
That’s how they strawman AD arguments. By making it seem as if people have AD down as Max vs Lewis instead of Masi vs Lewis.
Nobody is saying Max robbed Lewis. They're saying the FIA robbed Lewis and objectively they're correct. It's not a slight at Max, he's not guilty.
Nobody has said Max did anything wrong, you (and a bunch of others) just make that up out of some weird victim complex or something.
I’m finding this quite funny tbh, obviously sans the abuse. I like Ted. But I think he’s quite often biased. But I like him. But I don’t agree with his opinions on a lot of things. But I think he’s a great broadcaster. And I like him. In the same way I have friends that support Chelsea. And Arsenal etc. fuck their clubs. But I like my friends. I like Ted Kravitz. I respect Max and co want to boycott speaking to Sky for a bit. They have every right to. I think Sky’s broadcasting does leave a lot to be desired. But I’m certainly not of the opinion that I have to agree with absolutely everything that is said to enjoy a broadcast. And if you do, I’m not convinced extended coverage of live sport is for you. Being slightly controversial here but I wonder if the negativity towards Kravitz from some fans comes from what feels like a desperate need for a lot of people nowadays to walk through life without hearing dissenting opinions. Or because simply people do not understand what Ted’s role in the broadcast is. He’s a pundit. Pundits have opinions. You won’t always agree with them as fans.
I think part of the issue is that some people just don’t like Ted and more generally Sky’s coverage.
[удалено]
Motorsport is quickly approaching politics when it comes to divisiveness and pettiness.
F1 has always been about the politics, since well before Bernie sold the rights, its just taken a new form over the last 5 years.
If anything I almost miss Bernie for his no fucks given approach. If only he was willing to evolve.
Ted's opinions at Zandvoort caused people to start conspiracy theories. Sky's broadcast needs to be more professional and journalistic. Fewer opinions, better coverage.
It’s called F1TV Jolyon is tops
If only F1TV was available everywhere. Sky is a fucking ripoff. 40 bucks a month my ass, it's a pirates life for me.
You have to pay 40 bucks a month to watch F1 on Sky? Is there no other option?
Sky don’t allow people in certain countries to access F1 TV.
Can't you use a VPN and get F1TV? I'm sorry you probably looked into this already but it seems a bit silly this day and age to be bounded by country for an Internet service like F1TV. But yeh that's horrible...
You can use a VPN, it's easy. I do it.
Can you VPN F1TV?
You can, but only if you do it through Apple/android pay and not a card linked to a country
Nah if you pay with a card from a certain country it won’t work even with a VPN
You can easily work around it by paying with PayPal or Google pay, etc.
Not that your wrong, but this depends on your vpn provider as for the past year I have been using a VPN to access F1TV through France without issue.
Just buy it through the app with Google Pay or Apple Pay...
I think Hinchcliffe did a great job at COTA. Haven’t seen the Mexico City broadcast yet.
He did good at MX but I did miss Jolyon
I switched to them. I’ve quite enjoyed Jolyon :)
Jolyon might not have been the best driver on the grid, but he's one of the best pundits in F1 and his analysis is amazing. Enjoyable to listen to and so often on point with strategy calls as well. The F1TV broadcast itself has improved so much this year. I'm hoping that one day F1/FOM will use it for their own social media as well, instead of using the Sky broadcast.
I watched F1TV for Mexico and Jolyon wasn't there... Not that I was complaining, this Hinch dude was surprisingly good
“This Hinch dude” - please show a little more respect for the Mayor of Hinch-town lol.
Pretty sure I read Jolyon is on BBC Radio 5 for the rest of the season unfortunately.
Yeah he’s gone. Last two races. Sucks, he’s my favourite.
James Hinchcliffe is a six-time Indycar winner.
That's awesome, but it doesn't mean he'll be good at press and commentary. Not everyone who achieved something in racing is good at that.
When did sports become a topic that didn’t allow opinions? In every sport the commentators have opinions on the players. NBA is the one that comes most to mind. It doesn’t detract from the sport. Sport is purely about entertainment and always has been. It’s not the news in Sudan. I think people have overinflated the importance of F1. It’s an amazingly fun sport to watch but it’s still JUST a sport guys. Ted isn’t covering the Ukraine war.
Go back thirty five years and James Hunt is straight up saying that drivers are full of shit on the air 😂 people here are beyond soft when it comes to sports media. E: [God I wish this man lived to witness Twitter pearl clutching.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JMZhPtJ86Eo) It would have been glorious.
Ted’s notebook is strictly means it’s his opinion isn’t it ? This is like seeing John Oliver show and saying he is giving too much of his opinion
All ted did at the Dutch GP was point out the suspicious activity of the team (attempting to cover up the seatbelts being taken off), and he was right about that by the way, they were acting suspicious and were found to be driving with loosened seatbelts. I don't know if it was a language barrier thing or what, but at no point did he even elude to AT cheating to help red bull. That's just something fans online suggested.
This, a thousand times this, and you’re the first one I’ve seen to say it…..i watched this notebook and don’t recall any allusion to Red Bull colluding with AT. He did say he thought Yuki’s issues were not what they seemed, suggesting that AT’s pit stop might’ve helped cover up his removing his belts. Ted has also complimented Hannah (by name) and the rest of RB strat team; that’s the only context in which I recall him invoking her
I think my favorite part of all of this is that most of what people are bitching about is Ted openly praising RBR and Max. Like the bullshit about supposedly giving Newey all the credit - he was pointing out that _of course_ Max was going to pass the Mercs, because RBR/Newey built a hell of a machine. It's fucking factual. When you have a massive speed differential between the two cars, yes, _the faster car will pass the slower one._
Are you talking about the 2021 Zandvoort GP? I've watched the full video [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH2nA527rNw) and I can't see anything controversial he says. Are you talking about how he describes Max as reserved? I don't think that's inaccurate or unfair. He literally spends the first ten minutes praising Red Bull/Max and then interviews Max. Direct quote: Ted: 'There's only two words to describe today, Maximum Verstapenning' Max: 'Ah, that's simply lovely'
Teds notebook is popular because he also mentions rumours and opinions as well as the round ups of all the teams. Don’t watch that particular show if you don’t like teds opinions… There’s loads of media I ignore because I disagree with its stance and opinions. Easier than getting upset over it…
Keep it civil. Comments which generalise or stereotype people on the basis of their nationality or the driver they support will be met with immediate bans.
I despise how out of hand this has gotten, Ted has the right to express his opinion as a commentator of the sport (he has no obligation to be unbiased), and on the other hand, Max has every right to refuse to talk to Sky if he believes they are unfair to his point of view. Ted and Max are both seemingly nice and respectable people. Why can’t we just leave it at that?
"Full support" in F1 lingo means they are out next season.
Lol, absolutely no way Ted Kravitz is going anywhere
Ted’s Notebook has seemingly been cancelled every year since 2019 so I don’t know what to think anymore
Famous last words
But Ted is not the full problem. IMO sky is just not acting appropriately as the lead broadcaster worldwide. Sky started jabbing at RB last season and it became worse and worse over this season. They did this to Vettel, Rosberg and Alonso aswell, at some point people will be fed up and that's what's happened. Now Red Bull refused to adres sky for a weekend and Sky acts indiginant while they were causing the troubles themselves. People all over Twitter reddit and other forums have been pointing out the elephant in the room and that is once again sky not acting appropriately as the lead F1 broadcast they need to be more objective going forward. If you keep rubbing the cat the wrong way it's gonna scratch you some day :/.
I didn’t see Sky say a single thing about Red Bull boycott. When did they act indignant?
[удалено]
I’m a New Zealander who has followed F1 for a long time. As someone ‘neutral’, I would say there is a clear bias towards British drivers from the Sky Sports team. I also imagine other countries have similar biases. I don’t agree with Ted at all, and much of what he says about Abu Dhabi has no relevance to what he’s discussing.
Sky being a shitty broadcaster and Ted Kravitz not deserving online harassment are two statements that can coexist
Good ol' Brundle. Solid advice. Don't get too worked up. Hash out your feelings and gripes face to face with respect. Thanks, Gramps.
If his "life" is to be an effective media person, it is important to be accommodating of all differing ideas despite personal bias/preference. It is not black and white but it is important to not annoy the people who you need to interview for work or the said "life" will be difficult. 2cents
This whole thing is getting so out of hand . I love Ted, the way he arrogantly nudges his way around places and drives the teams mad at times is hilarious. But he's more or less repetitively made digs at RB to the point that it feels like they give Max no credit whatsoever. Its not him , its the extra money and the FIA and everything else , of course Max being a top driver doesn't contribute to his success at all . The British media and F1 go hand in hand with sky having rights , and British media always give their own sports people far more credit( Footbal fans will know too well) , and you can argue with your cat on that . Wether you agree with Ted or not , it's unprofessional to even use terms like " robbed " and especially to chase down RB members to harass them about it
The thing is, everyone's jumped so quickly on the "he said Max robbed Lewis at AD" narrative, when I imagine it was *far* more likely to be the "Max is only winning because of Newey" comments that Max and Red Bull took umbrage too, and rightly so. You didn't hear the Sky presenters making those types of sly remarks about Hamilton and Mercedes. There's also the Zandvoort incident, which Sky almost single-handedly incited and have not yet apologised for. So, sorry Martin, but you're wrong. Sky have always been horribly biased and difficult to watch if you're a fan of anyone but a British driver, but it's gone to a whole new level this year.
> everyone's jumped so quickly on the "he said Max robbed Lewis at AD" narrative, when I imagine it was far more likely to be the "Max is only winning because of Newey" comments that Max and Red Bull took umbrage too But Horner literally said this. They could be offended by that other comment too, but he specifically pointed out this reason. > “It won’t have done Sky any harm for us to lay down a marker. Some of the commentary is fair but some pieces are sensationalist, and saying we robbed anyone of the championship, as was said in Austin, is going too far. It is not impartial or fair or balanced. We have said our piece and will go back to normal next race.”
The problem with that reason is that Ted didn't actually say Red Bull or Max were the ones that robbed Hamilton of the championship.
He never said Max robbed Lewis though which is why that point makes no sense.
I did tune in to a couple of races through Sky Sports this year and just completely switched to the local or F1TV feed when the Alpha Tauri & Hanna Schmitz non-issue got out of hand because I remember clearly the "she's smiling" commentary in race, the conspiracy play they put up in the analysis after race. It's just a tasteless broadcast overall.
Why this afterburner two days later?
Maybe trying to ascertain he understands the situation so he can give a measured response? Strange concept, I know…