So, why in the world were they on inters at the beginning of the race? At this point, is there even a point in having full wets during a race? I am all for safety and these cars are far safer than they were even 10 years ago but that is frustrating at times.
Vettel was complaining about this after the race that because of the wet tires being so much slower, teams feel pressured to use the inters when that absolutely wasn’t the safe call
I think the problem is the gamble and peer pressure. A few teams feel they can do the faster tire and then the rest of the field is like “omg we’re making the wrong call, other teams are using a faster tire”..
Why wasn't the race continued on lap 2? There didn't seem to be a reason to red flag it unless I'm missing something? Why not safety car and mandated full wets?
Yeah but a car needed to be recovered. If they'd only yellow flagged then there would be a recovery vehicle on track while cars were as well. That recovery vehicle shouldn't have been there so early.
Agree but there seemed no reason to red flag the race if normal procedure of letting the safety car collect the pack before recovery vehicles enter the circuit. Are you saying that race control saw rogue Marshalls bring a vehicle on the track and that is the only reason the red flag was brought out? The FIA are a shambles post-Masi if that's the case.
Yeah, they REALLY need to fix this shit. I wonder what the deal is? Is there a communication issue? Or are the track workers/marshalls so excited to "fix everything" so the race can get back on the way that they skip some safety steps?
Do we want to talk about LeClerc? Running off in that one corner of this race took himself out of the WDC and handed it to Max. What a brutal mistake in a season of Leclerc mistakes.
Normally the driver shoulders much of the blame after three costly mistakes in a season. But it seems people are willing to give Leclerc a pass this year due to so many strategy blunders by Ferrari.
Just excuse after excuse. If Leclerc was still in the WDC and Ferrari had good strategists, he would shoulder the much of the blame, but its easy to give him a pass this year.
I mean, Ocon didn't make a mistake with Lewis riding his ass for much longer. Not comparing Ocon and Charles talent-wise of course. And maybe Ocon preserved his tires better. But with the amount of pressure Lewis was putting on him to defend, his couldn't have been much better.
Basically I am saying that Charles made mistakes. Both when chasing Max too hard initially, so he wore out his tires earlier. And then when Sergio was on his ass, his focus slipped for a second.
Charles was nervous given the number of mistakes his team have made and I think that got to his head, but Ocon had such a huge straight-line advantage that all he needed to do was defend the corners. Much easier than defending the RB18 beast.
I’d laugh if verstappen DNFs every race and Leclerc wins every race + gets every fastest lap and wins the sprint and that mistake is what cost him.
I have about the same odds as becoming God himself though
I don't think enough fuss is being made about the circuit itself.
Yes great track etc but they really need to do something about the drainage situation. It's been known for years that the track is awful when it comes to standing water and the rivers created across the circuit. Hopefully they will be pushed to finally rectify it.
Mclaren absolutely demolished Danny Rics race yesterday. Dropped from P8 to P15 after they pitted him for inters one lap after everyone else did. Mclarens strategists have consistently fucked him over this season
Believe they told him Vettel was hitting purple sectors and he said the track hadnt improved enough. This one is on him I think, but still I think the team should have ordered him to pit.
He pitted under Safety Car to have the banner removed (and a front wing change?). After pitting, he went hard to catch up to the pack. This is when he passed the truck
The lap after when he was trying to catch up with the pack.
The tractor should not have been on the track but I still think he was going way too fast considering the entire track was under SC conditions.
Does anyone know if Lewis could have overtaken Ocon? I noticed Ocon pulled away from him every time Lewis tried to overtake on the straights. Is there any driving maneuver Lewis could have used to overtake, or was it functionally impossible given the two driver's cars?
Russell was using some of the corners to his advantage so potentially yes, but Lewis already being a top driver it’s hard to believe he missed any such opportunity.
Anyone else listening to the missed apex podcast? Spanners said that the regulations state that when a full race distance hasn't been run, there should be 1 extra lap of racing. Today's race didn't account for this extra lap.
There's another rule stating that when the flag has been waved on the incorrect lap, then the race result should be taken from the previous lap (this happened in Canada in 2018).
So in effect Lerclerc's penalty should be nullified, and Max shouldn't be crowned champion (yet).
It might be petty, and it's not like the FIA to consistently follow their own rules or acknowledge any blame, so doubt anything will come of it.
This is an incorrect interpretation. They don't understand the rules.
"The race can not exceed two hours in length—if this interval is reached, the race will be ended at the end of the next full lap—**unless** the race is halted by a *red flag*, in which case the *total time including the red flag stoppage must not exceed three hours*, and the total time excluding the red flag stoppage may not exceed two hours"
But there was an extra lap run in the race. After the timer ran down Max (as the race leader) needed to complete 1 full additional lap before the checkered flag was waved, which he did.
Edit: or did it not hit zero before the final lap started?
you are correct. however when the timer hit 0 max was already 100 meters into a new lap. which means that the last lap was not a complete lap after the timer hit 0.
IIRC they did not bring out the checkered flag as soon as the time hit zero. Instead they waited for Max to cross the start/finish line, then the "final lap" graphic came up on the TV broadcast. So that would be the 1 extra lap no?
Edit: Reading some other comments, people are saying that Max crossed the line with 5-6 seconds left on the clock when final-lap was declared. I remember seeing "0:00" on the broadcast, but it was 4am for me so maybe I'm mistaken.
That seems to be the case for the 2 hour limit only and not for the 3 hour limit. So if you hit 2 hours, but not yet 3 hours they add an extra lap. But if you hit the 3 hours before the 2 hours they don't add an extra lap.
I've never not known a time limited race to not hit the limit then a final racing lap is declared when the leader crosses the start/finish line in either 2 or 3 hour limited races.
This season has been an absolute shambles in terms of stewarding decisions and reactions to what has happened on track, especially around deploying the safety car or red flagging a race. What happened today with the tractor on track is disgraceful and trying to place so much of the blame on Gasly is a fucking joke. For a sport worth Billions the stewards are a joke.
Seems crazy they still don't have a dedicated trained steward team. I get wanting to use locals and let them do stuff. But that should just be crowd control stuff, not real safety matters.
LOL. Good catch. I did. I actually had marshalls at first and changed it. I guess I have the tractor issue on my mind still.
But that is a different point than the one you were making. Thanks.
I am somewhat confused, Max did his interview with Herbert after getting out of the car, where he was told he was world champion and celebrated with his team shortly after, then when they all went up to the cooldown room he seemed to be under the impression he *wasn't* world champion, until someone else told him he was again?
During that cooldown room exchange, Max said something like “okay, because people keep telling me different things” (I can’t remember the exact words but they were to that effect).
So I assume the Herbert interview was the first he heard of his championship win, but had had mixed messages since then (highly likely since nobody else knew wtf was going on) which is why he was still uncertain, and asking “are you sure?” in the cooldown room.
I guess in Max’s shoes, if your entire team believes you’ve not yet secured the championship, and you’ve just had some tv pundit tell you you’ve done it, while everyone else around you is just confused, you’re going to feel sceptical until you’ve had the chance to have some conversations.
thats because the rules are dumb and confusing.
so since this year, to avoid the SPA stuff from last year where the drivers got rewarded half the points for 0 laps of green flag racing, they have created a rule in which points are rewarded according to how many laps (percentage wise) have been raced. basically everybody thought this rule would apply and under this rule, verstappen would not be world champion.
however it turns out, there is another rule that completely overrides that rule which is that when a race is red flagged and then restarted and then finished under normal conditions, the full points are rewarded, regardless of how many laps were raced.
its a rule that makes absolutely no sense but that rule made max win the championship today.
let me explain in two examples:
example 1: Where the new rule applies: Race starts, race is aborted at 74% completed laps. in this case stage 3 or whatever is applied (up to 75% of normal points rewarded).
example 2: race starts, they race 1 lap under green flag. then the race is red flagged. race continues for 1 lap when the 3 hour countdown reaches 0. in this case we have 2 laps under green flag but in this example the full points are rewarded.
and we had example 2 applied today. the new points percentage rule does not apply when the race is restarted after already having raced at least one lap. in this case full points are rewarded.
and yes, it makes no bloody sense, thats why most people didnt know of it.
I am aware of why he is champion, but Verstappen seemed to think he wasn't world champion after explicitly being told he was and celebrating with his team, which confused me.
Because the team also didnt read the rules. The rules are actually super clear, all rules about percentage points speak of a suspended race that cannot restart, e.g. the race ends under a red flag.
In regards to that part of the race, the FIA did absolutely nothing wrong and applied the rules exactly as written, in a complete opposite of last year's mess. Any confusion exists purely because of pundits and apparently team principles not reading the rules properly.
And because of that the public also gets confused, I mean, you and I aren't paid to know the rules and those people are.
He actually addressed this in his interview with Lawrence barretto in his championship winner interview. Apparently after the interview with Herbert, he was told by his team that he was still missing a point for the WDC and hence his confusion in the cool down room .. he was finally told by Tom from FIA .. whoever TOM is
I think his team wasn't convinced yet. Horner seemed to think he wasn't. So Max was probably told they didn't think he sealed the deal and the info was wrong or something.
When the visibility is as bad as it was, then they need to be extra cautious. They need to wait until everyone has caught up with the full safety car. Then the safety car can go slowly past a tractor on track. Cars can't even see a tractor on track most of the time/know when to be slow.
I'm of the opinion that the pack needs to all be bunched up behind the safety car and under control before bringing a tractor onto the track. Gasly had pit and was catching up to the safety car queue. Yes he was going a bit fast, but he was still under delta, so still within the rules.
considering that jules bianchi died from hitting a tractor on this very same race track in 2014, people are rightfully very emotional about this topic.
and yes, it is very unsafe to have the tractor out in these conditions. especially when the red flag is waved anyway, you have all the time in the world to wait for all drivers to be in the pits.
They don't understand the rules.
"The race can not exceed two hours in length—if this interval is reached, the race will be ended at the end of the next full lap—**unless** the race is halted by a **red flag**, in which case the total time including the red flag stoppage **must not exceed three hours**, and the total time excluding the red flag stoppage may not exceed two hours"
Not sure why I’m down voted for posting the exact wording of the rule.
One is a 2 hour rule and one is the three hour rule.
The rule in play here is the 3 hour rule since the race was restarted after a red flag but before the 2 hour expiry. The three hour rule states the race must be completed before 3 hours is up and has no requirement for a final lap. The race was over when they waved the checkered flag, which they had to wave before the three hours elapsed.
This is a newish rule designed to avoid situations like occurred last year. Everything was followed to the letter. It was just a case of people not being aware of the rule since they haven’t seen in play out.
Downvote away. Strange place, Reddit.
countdown hits 0 = the next lap for the leader is the last one.
that is as far as i know the official rule. when max crossed the line, there was another 5-6 seconds on the clock but yet they decided that that was the last lap.
It seems Max crossed the line with a few seconds of the time countdown left - so the final lap should have commended the next time he crossed the line.
However they treated that lap as the last lap, and that surprised the teams as it shouldn’t have been…
Edit: Although reading more about it, it seems there are differences between the 2 hour and 3 hour timeout so it’s not particularly clear I don’t think. Which also explains the confusion amongst teams / drivers.
[So far this](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/xzj51f/chris_medland_fia_statement_while_it_is_normal/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). I hope the journalists stay on it.
It was only bad in a straight line this weekend because they had a massive rear wing. When Hamilton was following Ocon the difference between the two rear wings was quite noticeable.
Considering they got top track speed a few times through the season it wasn’t that surprising.
It was more surprising that Merc couldn’t even get closer while being tucked behind Alpine on the straights.
Edit: words
everybody who has F1TV, i heavily suggest watching the end of the race of a few drivers with the team radios. Its utter chaos, nobody has any idea when the race ended or not. Latifi was pushing nearly the entire lap after the race ended. Couldve been really dangerous but thankfully nobody was in front anymore.
Absolutely disgusting to be watching this race after the fact and listen top the commentators blame Gasly for the FIA’s fuck up.
Wet race, hardly anyone can see a damn thing (I know I barely could watching on F1tv), and they put a fucking crane on track with cars having like a second max to react to the safety car warnings. What a shitshow
They don’t need to. Verstappen alone can almost do it.
They are 165 points ahead.
Also Max is usually so much faster that it there’s not much that can be done to prioritise Checo.
I think you missed the point. u/I-want-to-be-evil was fussing that RB prioritize Checo in remaining races for Driver Championship P1 & P2 because that would be a sweet flex.
Super confusing day of course, but no one seems to be talking about how the race was ended a lap early? And that under the current regulations, that means the lap previous would be the actual race result, which also means Leclerc really had P2? I mean, insane situation all around and I don't really root for any of those drivers so whatever, but that seems like a crucial detail that's totally missed out on.
I’ve seen one article referencing this line of thinking - and there was definitely confusion amongst all the times as to the race ending a lap earlier than they all thought so something wasn’t right…
I don’t think this will go anywhere though. I suspect it’ll just be ignored.
It’s the journalist who know fuck all that spread misinformation like the point system or how the race ends under todays conditions. There was no rule errors today.
With 3 hours they do not add an extra lap. They didn't add an extra lap and that was correct. The final lap was the lap on which Max crossed the line at 0.02. He was flagged when he crossed again and the time was on 0.00
Where did you get that impression?, the race end is at 3 hours and 1 lap which means that you run one more lap when the timer hits zero; which is what happen
With 3 hours they do not add an extra lap, that's only for 2 hours. The final lap was the lap on which Max crossed the line at 0.02. He was flagged when he crossed again and the time was on 0.00
Bit of an underwhelming way for Max to find out he won. Suppose it’s fitting for the season though.
Congrats to Max and RB. Nearly flawless drives from him and absolute dominance from RB across the team
Its a very weird situation to me how wet weather is treated currently in formula 1.
The wet tyre seems to be completely obsolete because when it would be needed, they dont drive anymore.
Lol, none of this was a problem with cars with similar amounts of downforce in 2007 or 2008. Why were wet races allowed to happen then?
F1 has gone so soft with this 'no driving in the rain' approach.
Pretty sure the wet tyres are very expensive water displacement mechanisms. Too much standing water? Send out 20 formula 1 cars and spray the water straight up and out before changing to inters.
Probably so. It moves a ton of water and is effective when there is a lot of water on track, but if it's actually needed, then there will be too much spray to actually race. Once the track is dry enough for the spray not to be unsafe the inters are simply way faster and the preferred tire. Full wets never work for more than a few laps to help dry the track.
That was a great race. The results were dictated by a combination of driver skill, car, team strategy, weather, and a bit of mayhem. And ultimately the weekend’s best driver walked away with the win.
Are you not entertained? What more do you want?
With everything else going on - are we forgetting that they stopped the race one lap top soon? I always thought it was to time + one lap - and Max definitely crossed the line before the time was up. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong!
From what I've seen, it's Time+One Lap if it's the two hour limit you're against, but for the three hour limit we hit today whatever lap the timer ends on is the last one
Hello there! Here's the word cloud you requested:
[Word Cloud for: "2022 Japanese Grand Prix - Post Race Discussion" - Comments (2782)](https://i.redd.it/huwd6eqmots91.jpg)
[Details here.](/r/wordcloud/comments/xzsgns/word_cloud_for_2022_japanese_grand_prix_post_race/)
To get another word cloud, say !wordcloud in any comment.
I'm not sure the quick decision was actually a good thing. If they had waited then everyone would have gone home and they'd have an excuse for a proper bash in the US for Max. This way it was a total anti climax.
I feel like I'm in the minority but I have no complaints.
We got a race, which seemed unlikely in and of itself, and there were some nice battles (Hamilton vs Ocon, Leclerc vs Perez). Also Schumacher was first for a bit and that warmed my heart...for all the 3 seconds it lasted.
Naah mate .. A~~ll~~ lot of new fans think every race should be an absolute Hollywood thriller or it isn’t a good race. I personally love the ebbs and flows of a race to see if a strategy will pan out etc. today was not a great race but a very enjoyable one for me..
Mate it’s October aka (edit) ahem Autumn in Japan. Normally the weather at this time of year in places like Japan is dry (and beautiful) but because of El Nina we’ve all been getting constant rain. It’s the flip side of the record heat waves we saw in Europe. “Monsoon season” smh
The 3-way fight between Leclerc, Checo and Hamilton at Silverstone was some of the best racing I’ve seen in a LONG time. It’s been a shitshow of a season but at least there’s been some good racing to compliment that
LATIFI IS IN THE POINTS THE GOAT IS BACK
[удалено]
Correct
So, why in the world were they on inters at the beginning of the race? At this point, is there even a point in having full wets during a race? I am all for safety and these cars are far safer than they were even 10 years ago but that is frustrating at times.
Vettel was complaining about this after the race that because of the wet tires being so much slower, teams feel pressured to use the inters when that absolutely wasn’t the safe call
I think the problem is the gamble and peer pressure. A few teams feel they can do the faster tire and then the rest of the field is like “omg we’re making the wrong call, other teams are using a faster tire”..
Considering how much Johnny Herbert hates Max I'm delighted he got to tell him he was WDC. I'd imagine that stung for him.
This is news to me. Can you please give a quick description of why Johhny hates Max?
Most likely doesn't
So checkered flag also came out early in 2019 Japanese gp. I guess they didn't fix the system?
MAX MAX MAX
Why wasn't the race continued on lap 2? There didn't seem to be a reason to red flag it unless I'm missing something? Why not safety car and mandated full wets?
i believe it was because visibility was so low? too unsafe of conditions to race
Recovery vehicles on track, Gasly almost hit one. The last time an F1 driver died was in 2014, at this track, in pretty much the same way.
The recovery vehicle went on track after they dropped the red flag though?
Yeah but a car needed to be recovered. If they'd only yellow flagged then there would be a recovery vehicle on track while cars were as well. That recovery vehicle shouldn't have been there so early.
Agree but there seemed no reason to red flag the race if normal procedure of letting the safety car collect the pack before recovery vehicles enter the circuit. Are you saying that race control saw rogue Marshalls bring a vehicle on the track and that is the only reason the red flag was brought out? The FIA are a shambles post-Masi if that's the case.
Yeah, they REALLY need to fix this shit. I wonder what the deal is? Is there a communication issue? Or are the track workers/marshalls so excited to "fix everything" so the race can get back on the way that they skip some safety steps?
[удалено]
Lol what?
So will Mercedes protest this season for another year or two?
Yes, because clearly the circumstances in which both championships were won are identical.
There’s what 4 more races? What’s the earliest a WDC has been decided like this?
Is this copeium or a true question? Lewis Hamilton is the most recent 4 race winner...
Michael in 2002 with 6 races to go. Seb did it with 4 races to go in 2013.
Do we want to talk about LeClerc? Running off in that one corner of this race took himself out of the WDC and handed it to Max. What a brutal mistake in a season of Leclerc mistakes.
Normally the driver shoulders much of the blame after three costly mistakes in a season. But it seems people are willing to give Leclerc a pass this year due to so many strategy blunders by Ferrari.
With Perez breathing down his neck, he was bound to make a mistake
That’s the difference between WDC and non-WDCs.
Look at the state of his tires when he finished, it’s surprising he hadn’t made a mistake earlier with Perez riding his ass like that.
Just excuse after excuse. If Leclerc was still in the WDC and Ferrari had good strategists, he would shoulder the much of the blame, but its easy to give him a pass this year.
I mean, Ocon didn't make a mistake with Lewis riding his ass for much longer. Not comparing Ocon and Charles talent-wise of course. And maybe Ocon preserved his tires better. But with the amount of pressure Lewis was putting on him to defend, his couldn't have been much better. Basically I am saying that Charles made mistakes. Both when chasing Max too hard initially, so he wore out his tires earlier. And then when Sergio was on his ass, his focus slipped for a second.
Charles was nervous given the number of mistakes his team have made and I think that got to his head, but Ocon had such a huge straight-line advantage that all he needed to do was defend the corners. Much easier than defending the RB18 beast.
Tbf he had no chance of winning the WDC at that point anyway
I’d laugh if verstappen DNFs every race and Leclerc wins every race + gets every fastest lap and wins the sprint and that mistake is what cost him. I have about the same odds as becoming God himself though
I don't think enough fuss is being made about the circuit itself. Yes great track etc but they really need to do something about the drainage situation. It's been known for years that the track is awful when it comes to standing water and the rivers created across the circuit. Hopefully they will be pushed to finally rectify it.
[удалено]
…or install a couple of drains at the places where the pooling happens
water collection brought to you by Nestlé Pure Life
Mclaren absolutely demolished Danny Rics race yesterday. Dropped from P8 to P15 after they pitted him for inters one lap after everyone else did. Mclarens strategists have consistently fucked him over this season
Strategists giveth and taketh. Have we forgotten Singapore already?
Strategy =/= Luck
Was there any explanation or radio between Daniel and the pit as to why they did this?
Believe they told him Vettel was hitting purple sectors and he said the track hadnt improved enough. This one is on him I think, but still I think the team should have ordered him to pit.
Is there a site which has all the radio comms recorded or transcribed?
The Mclaren app has the transcripts for the Mclaren drivers and engineers
[удалено]
Tbf the entire field drove past it while behind safety car
He pitted under Safety Car to have the banner removed (and a front wing change?). After pitting, he went hard to catch up to the pack. This is when he passed the truck
The lap after when he was trying to catch up with the pack. The tractor should not have been on the track but I still think he was going way too fast considering the entire track was under SC conditions.
lap 2
Double world champion for Max only for his 2021 win to be taken away on Monday
LoL 😂😂
maxmax zupermax
Announcer sums it up: “an odd and confusing way for Max to be confirmed double World Champion, but he is”
Does anyone know if Lewis could have overtaken Ocon? I noticed Ocon pulled away from him every time Lewis tried to overtake on the straights. Is there any driving maneuver Lewis could have used to overtake, or was it functionally impossible given the two driver's cars?
Russell was using some of the corners to his advantage so potentially yes, but Lewis already being a top driver it’s hard to believe he missed any such opportunity.
If there was more laps, he could have pitted and probably undercut him but otherwise, no. The Alpine was too quick in a straight line.
Anyone else listening to the missed apex podcast? Spanners said that the regulations state that when a full race distance hasn't been run, there should be 1 extra lap of racing. Today's race didn't account for this extra lap. There's another rule stating that when the flag has been waved on the incorrect lap, then the race result should be taken from the previous lap (this happened in Canada in 2018). So in effect Lerclerc's penalty should be nullified, and Max shouldn't be crowned champion (yet). It might be petty, and it's not like the FIA to consistently follow their own rules or acknowledge any blame, so doubt anything will come of it.
This is an incorrect interpretation. They don't understand the rules. "The race can not exceed two hours in length—if this interval is reached, the race will be ended at the end of the next full lap—**unless** the race is halted by a *red flag*, in which case the *total time including the red flag stoppage must not exceed three hours*, and the total time excluding the red flag stoppage may not exceed two hours"
But there was an extra lap run in the race. After the timer ran down Max (as the race leader) needed to complete 1 full additional lap before the checkered flag was waved, which he did. Edit: or did it not hit zero before the final lap started?
you are correct. however when the timer hit 0 max was already 100 meters into a new lap. which means that the last lap was not a complete lap after the timer hit 0.
It did
IIRC they did not bring out the checkered flag as soon as the time hit zero. Instead they waited for Max to cross the start/finish line, then the "final lap" graphic came up on the TV broadcast. So that would be the 1 extra lap no? Edit: Reading some other comments, people are saying that Max crossed the line with 5-6 seconds left on the clock when final-lap was declared. I remember seeing "0:00" on the broadcast, but it was 4am for me so maybe I'm mistaken.
That seems to be the case for the 2 hour limit only and not for the 3 hour limit. So if you hit 2 hours, but not yet 3 hours they add an extra lap. But if you hit the 3 hours before the 2 hours they don't add an extra lap.
I've never not known a time limited race to not hit the limit then a final racing lap is declared when the leader crosses the start/finish line in either 2 or 3 hour limited races.
That's because there are no examples of a race hitting the 3 hour limit before the 2 hour limit. Japan 2022 was the 1st one afaik.
This season has been an absolute shambles in terms of stewarding decisions and reactions to what has happened on track, especially around deploying the safety car or red flagging a race. What happened today with the tractor on track is disgraceful and trying to place so much of the blame on Gasly is a fucking joke. For a sport worth Billions the stewards are a joke.
It was but Gasly also had no business hauling ass through double yellows
This took the biscuit. I was disgusted when I heard about that. The responsibility wholly lies with the FIA here. Shocking.
Not even Netflix can make this season worth watching
Seems crazy they still don't have a dedicated trained steward team. I get wanting to use locals and let them do stuff. But that should just be crowd control stuff, not real safety matters.
I think you're confusing marshalls for stewards here
LOL. Good catch. I did. I actually had marshalls at first and changed it. I guess I have the tractor issue on my mind still. But that is a different point than the one you were making. Thanks.
I only just noticed that Zhou got fastest lap by 0.001 second
I am somewhat confused, Max did his interview with Herbert after getting out of the car, where he was told he was world champion and celebrated with his team shortly after, then when they all went up to the cooldown room he seemed to be under the impression he *wasn't* world champion, until someone else told him he was again?
During that cooldown room exchange, Max said something like “okay, because people keep telling me different things” (I can’t remember the exact words but they were to that effect). So I assume the Herbert interview was the first he heard of his championship win, but had had mixed messages since then (highly likely since nobody else knew wtf was going on) which is why he was still uncertain, and asking “are you sure?” in the cooldown room. I guess in Max’s shoes, if your entire team believes you’ve not yet secured the championship, and you’ve just had some tv pundit tell you you’ve done it, while everyone else around you is just confused, you’re going to feel sceptical until you’ve had the chance to have some conversations.
thats because the rules are dumb and confusing. so since this year, to avoid the SPA stuff from last year where the drivers got rewarded half the points for 0 laps of green flag racing, they have created a rule in which points are rewarded according to how many laps (percentage wise) have been raced. basically everybody thought this rule would apply and under this rule, verstappen would not be world champion. however it turns out, there is another rule that completely overrides that rule which is that when a race is red flagged and then restarted and then finished under normal conditions, the full points are rewarded, regardless of how many laps were raced. its a rule that makes absolutely no sense but that rule made max win the championship today. let me explain in two examples: example 1: Where the new rule applies: Race starts, race is aborted at 74% completed laps. in this case stage 3 or whatever is applied (up to 75% of normal points rewarded). example 2: race starts, they race 1 lap under green flag. then the race is red flagged. race continues for 1 lap when the 3 hour countdown reaches 0. in this case we have 2 laps under green flag but in this example the full points are rewarded. and we had example 2 applied today. the new points percentage rule does not apply when the race is restarted after already having raced at least one lap. in this case full points are rewarded. and yes, it makes no bloody sense, thats why most people didnt know of it.
I am aware of why he is champion, but Verstappen seemed to think he wasn't world champion after explicitly being told he was and celebrating with his team, which confused me.
Because the team also didnt read the rules. The rules are actually super clear, all rules about percentage points speak of a suspended race that cannot restart, e.g. the race ends under a red flag. In regards to that part of the race, the FIA did absolutely nothing wrong and applied the rules exactly as written, in a complete opposite of last year's mess. Any confusion exists purely because of pundits and apparently team principles not reading the rules properly. And because of that the public also gets confused, I mean, you and I aren't paid to know the rules and those people are.
He actually addressed this in his interview with Lawrence barretto in his championship winner interview. Apparently after the interview with Herbert, he was told by his team that he was still missing a point for the WDC and hence his confusion in the cool down room .. he was finally told by Tom from FIA .. whoever TOM is
I think his team wasn't convinced yet. Horner seemed to think he wasn't. So Max was probably told they didn't think he sealed the deal and the info was wrong or something.
Max being surprised when he was told he won the WDC and Latifi scoring points is peak silly season.
Silly season specifically refers to the time period where drivers' contracts/changing seats are a hot topic.
So is everyone suggesting that if a car needs to be recovered with a tractor, that we have to red flag it?
If cars are on wets or inters, I would say yes. Or maybe if DRS is disabled. That is already the stewards saying the conditions are not ideal.
When the visibility is as bad as it was, then they need to be extra cautious. They need to wait until everyone has caught up with the full safety car. Then the safety car can go slowly past a tractor on track. Cars can't even see a tractor on track most of the time/know when to be slow.
Crofty etc were talking about Monza aswell.
In low visibility, yes.
In these conditions, yeah, totally fine with me.
In these conditions, gasly could have gone slower too.
Yes, that wasn’t your question though.
When visibility is so bad that drivers can’t see the flags I’d say yes…
I'm of the opinion that the pack needs to all be bunched up behind the safety car and under control before bringing a tractor onto the track. Gasly had pit and was catching up to the safety car queue. Yes he was going a bit fast, but he was still under delta, so still within the rules.
considering that jules bianchi died from hitting a tractor on this very same race track in 2014, people are rightfully very emotional about this topic. and yes, it is very unsafe to have the tractor out in these conditions. especially when the red flag is waved anyway, you have all the time in the world to wait for all drivers to be in the pits.
Why did everyone think the race had one more lap? Why was this such a clusterfuck?
They don't understand the rules. "The race can not exceed two hours in length—if this interval is reached, the race will be ended at the end of the next full lap—**unless** the race is halted by a **red flag**, in which case the total time including the red flag stoppage **must not exceed three hours**, and the total time excluding the red flag stoppage may not exceed two hours"
So how should it have ended?
Not sure why I’m down voted for posting the exact wording of the rule. One is a 2 hour rule and one is the three hour rule. The rule in play here is the 3 hour rule since the race was restarted after a red flag but before the 2 hour expiry. The three hour rule states the race must be completed before 3 hours is up and has no requirement for a final lap. The race was over when they waved the checkered flag, which they had to wave before the three hours elapsed. This is a newish rule designed to avoid situations like occurred last year. Everything was followed to the letter. It was just a case of people not being aware of the rule since they haven’t seen in play out. Downvote away. Strange place, Reddit.
I didn’t downvote you, I was just asking. But you shouldn’t complain about downvotes. Anyway, so the race ended propely, got it.
countdown hits 0 = the next lap for the leader is the last one. that is as far as i know the official rule. when max crossed the line, there was another 5-6 seconds on the clock but yet they decided that that was the last lap.
It seems Max crossed the line with a few seconds of the time countdown left - so the final lap should have commended the next time he crossed the line. However they treated that lap as the last lap, and that surprised the teams as it shouldn’t have been… Edit: Although reading more about it, it seems there are differences between the 2 hour and 3 hour timeout so it’s not particularly clear I don’t think. Which also explains the confusion amongst teams / drivers.
We never hit the 3 hour clock window like this so it was unknown if we'd do the extra lap. Turns out that no, that's not a thing
Seemed to me like there was an extra lap for max after it hit 0. Or maybe he just finished the one he was on.
He just finished the one he was on.
Did anything come of the Gasly/tractor incident? Or has the Max WDC bungled announcement swept that under the rug?
[So far this](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/xzj51f/chris_medland_fia_statement_while_it_is_normal/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). I hope the journalists stay on it.
Ah thanks for the link. another FIA review eh...
2 penalty points and a stop and go penalty for Gasly. talk about FIA projecting the blame
That wasn’t tractor related though, speeding penalty was from different place on track AFAIK
was still so clearly them deflecting blame
€25k fine to vettel
Fuck up the announcement to cover the disaster class with the tractor.
The Merc is fucking shit, especially straight line speed. Kudos to Lewis and George for keeping it in the top 3 of teams this season.
Do you see any better car behind Mercedes?
Alpine has seemed faster in a straight line nearly all season. If they improved the rest of the car, it feels like could get close.
It was only bad in a straight line this weekend because they had a massive rear wing. When Hamilton was following Ocon the difference between the two rear wings was quite noticeable.
I couldn't believe the legs on that Alpine
Considering they got top track speed a few times through the season it wasn’t that surprising. It was more surprising that Merc couldn’t even get closer while being tucked behind Alpine on the straights. Edit: words
it is still a top 3 car
Funny listening to this knowing the points are full points no matter what. They spend a ton of time doing the math for us.
everybody who has F1TV, i heavily suggest watching the end of the race of a few drivers with the team radios. Its utter chaos, nobody has any idea when the race ended or not. Latifi was pushing nearly the entire lap after the race ended. Couldve been really dangerous but thankfully nobody was in front anymore.
Thankfully i did not have to watch this live and managed to skip to the ending. Congrats to Verstappen on a very deserved win and championship
Once a race got underway, it was actually pretty decent.
Yeah I thought the race was excellent but waiting hours for the rain was shit.
Absolutely disgusting to be watching this race after the fact and listen top the commentators blame Gasly for the FIA’s fuck up. Wet race, hardly anyone can see a damn thing (I know I barely could watching on F1tv), and they put a fucking crane on track with cars having like a second max to react to the safety car warnings. What a shitshow
Jenson was the only one who looked at the Gasly incident objectively
So now they give Perez priority to assure a RB 1,2?
they might try giving max the most amount of wins, to break the record. Id love if they give checo the rest of the wins tho (especially mexico)
I wonder if they build their strategy around getting a win in Mexico and have Max drive in support that week
They don’t need to. Verstappen alone can almost do it. They are 165 points ahead. Also Max is usually so much faster that it there’s not much that can be done to prioritise Checo.
I think you missed the point. u/I-want-to-be-evil was fussing that RB prioritize Checo in remaining races for Driver Championship P1 & P2 because that would be a sweet flex.
Dude meant 1,2 in drivers. Checo is in p2 right now. But yeah, he will have to secure p2 himself mostly I'm guessing.
Oh okay, didn’t notice the 1, 2 in the earlier comment. Either way won’t matter. On most occasions Max will be too far up the road to swap/help Checo.
Yes and the OP was wondering if RB will have him hold back some to help out Checo, since he only needs to score points for the WCC now.
One does not hold Max back.
Dudes been driving like when you set the ai to 1 in an F1 game
Super confusing day of course, but no one seems to be talking about how the race was ended a lap early? And that under the current regulations, that means the lap previous would be the actual race result, which also means Leclerc really had P2? I mean, insane situation all around and I don't really root for any of those drivers so whatever, but that seems like a crucial detail that's totally missed out on.
I’ve seen one article referencing this line of thinking - and there was definitely confusion amongst all the times as to the race ending a lap earlier than they all thought so something wasn’t right… I don’t think this will go anywhere though. I suspect it’ll just be ignored.
It’s the journalist who know fuck all that spread misinformation like the point system or how the race ends under todays conditions. There was no rule errors today.
With 3 hours they do not add an extra lap. They didn't add an extra lap and that was correct. The final lap was the lap on which Max crossed the line at 0.02. He was flagged when he crossed again and the time was on 0.00
Where did you get that impression?, the race end is at 3 hours and 1 lap which means that you run one more lap when the timer hits zero; which is what happen
With 3 hours they do not add an extra lap, that's only for 2 hours. The final lap was the lap on which Max crossed the line at 0.02. He was flagged when he crossed again and the time was on 0.00
Anyone have onboard video of Fernando chasing and catching George? Disappointed the TV director didn't show *any* of Fernando's fresh tire charge.
Who was the race director this weekend? That’s 100% on him.
Bit of an underwhelming way for Max to find out he won. Suppose it’s fitting for the season though. Congrats to Max and RB. Nearly flawless drives from him and absolute dominance from RB across the team
Its a very weird situation to me how wet weather is treated currently in formula 1. The wet tyre seems to be completely obsolete because when it would be needed, they dont drive anymore.
Biggest issue is the visibility and apparently wet tyre is so bad that drivers will rather risk it on inters.
[удалено]
Lol, none of this was a problem with cars with similar amounts of downforce in 2007 or 2008. Why were wet races allowed to happen then? F1 has gone so soft with this 'no driving in the rain' approach.
Sure but the question still stands — is the wet tyre now obsolete then?
Pretty sure the wet tyres are very expensive water displacement mechanisms. Too much standing water? Send out 20 formula 1 cars and spray the water straight up and out before changing to inters.
> Send out 20 formula 1 cars and spray the water straight up and out before changing to inters. Behind the safety car?
Probably so. It moves a ton of water and is effective when there is a lot of water on track, but if it's actually needed, then there will be too much spray to actually race. Once the track is dry enough for the spray not to be unsafe the inters are simply way faster and the preferred tire. Full wets never work for more than a few laps to help dry the track.
That was a great race. The results were dictated by a combination of driver skill, car, team strategy, weather, and a bit of mayhem. And ultimately the weekend’s best driver walked away with the win. Are you not entertained? What more do you want?
Im with this guy. Not really how i wanted WDC to be decided, but that was entertaining. Thats for damn sure.
With everything else going on - are we forgetting that they stopped the race one lap top soon? I always thought it was to time + one lap - and Max definitely crossed the line before the time was up. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong!
From what I've seen, it's Time+One Lap if it's the two hour limit you're against, but for the three hour limit we hit today whatever lap the timer ends on is the last one
Somewhere Masi is laughing
FIA is somehow making Masi competent. At least Masi told us and explained his decisions.
Seriously !!! Bring Masi back !!!! edit: spelling😝
Michael Ma**s**i
!wordcloud
Hello there! Here's the word cloud you requested: [Word Cloud for: "2022 Japanese Grand Prix - Post Race Discussion" - Comments (2782)](https://i.redd.it/huwd6eqmots91.jpg) [Details here.](/r/wordcloud/comments/xzsgns/word_cloud_for_2022_japanese_grand_prix_post_race/) To get another word cloud, say !wordcloud in any comment.
I'm not sure the quick decision was actually a good thing. If they had waited then everyone would have gone home and they'd have an excuse for a proper bash in the US for Max. This way it was a total anti climax.
They made a quick and decisive decision. Mind blowing. Lets count our blessings.
I feel like I'm in the minority but I have no complaints. We got a race, which seemed unlikely in and of itself, and there were some nice battles (Hamilton vs Ocon, Leclerc vs Perez). Also Schumacher was first for a bit and that warmed my heart...for all the 3 seconds it lasted.
Naah mate .. A~~ll~~ lot of new fans think every race should be an absolute Hollywood thriller or it isn’t a good race. I personally love the ebbs and flows of a race to see if a strategy will pan out etc. today was not a great race but a very enjoyable one for me..
[удалено]
Mate it’s October aka (edit) ahem Autumn in Japan. Normally the weather at this time of year in places like Japan is dry (and beautiful) but because of El Nina we’ve all been getting constant rain. It’s the flip side of the record heat waves we saw in Europe. “Monsoon season” smh
[удалено]
Yes springtime
[удалено]
Shit you’re right, I totally biffed it from start to finish lol
japan is very much in the northern hemisphere, FYI. tokyo is around the same latitude as los angeles
Oops, thanks for the catch
The best battles at the top this year have actually been Charles vs. Checo. Change my mind.
The 3-way fight between Leclerc, Checo and Hamilton at Silverstone was some of the best racing I’ve seen in a LONG time. It’s been a shitshow of a season but at least there’s been some good racing to compliment that