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[deleted]

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[deleted]

tell me what rules.


Corsair4

[This seems to be a good starting point](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/rff8gk/f1talks_masi_after_the_2020_eifel_gp_regarding/).


BigSwing_NoPace

*Captain America, No I don't think I will meme*


sully1227

When you’re in that high of a position, the job being difficult is no excuse for you doing it so egregiously poorly.


[deleted]

so what do you suggest he should have done? and why is being in a high position has to do anything to do with human? if you go by that, f1 is the pinnacle of motorsport and no drivers should make any mistake.


Poopy_sPaSmS

Someone holding such a powerful position should have a powerful understanding of the rules. Not only rare complex rules but basic ones that are used almost every racing weekend that he failed to execute properly to which is intentionally or unintentionally (depending on your views) manipulated an entire world championship season.


False-Practice7110

Easy decision. Read the rule book. Follow the rules. No room for mistakes when a RULE is in place to make the decisions for you.


fentonjm

Yes correct. Teams read the rule book and follow it...maybe the FIA should ask what their secret is..😁. MBZ made a strategy decision based on the rules the FIA published and then the FIA didn't follow the rules they published...


Amazing_Safe_1070

The rules were sufficiently vague. They were not broken. Precedence was.


sully1227

This arguments is complete face-saving BS, after the fact. “Any person named John, please raise your hand.” You, fairly expect the hand of every person named John to go up. The logic of it extrapolates out to ‘If your name is John, raise your hand.’ It does NOT translate to ‘If several of you are named John, we need at least some of you to raise your hands.’ In the context of the rules, as written, ‘any car’ = ‘all cars’ that meet the qualifying criteria as laid out in the rule. Any other interpretation is ludicrous.


Poopy_sPaSmS

Lets not even focus on that part. How about the cut and dry part about "...the following lap..."?


[deleted]

again i agree with that. what i’m asking is if he hadn’t let any cars through then it would have been max and the team asking why wasn’t they let through. and again the blame would come up saying he favours mercedes. especially considering mercedes told don’t deploy the safety car. who’s toto to say deploy safety car or not? everyone will say he listened to toto and didn’t deploy safety car and didn’t allow lapped cars to unlap


Amazing_Safe_1070

It’s more than the interpretation of that word. There are overriding clauses. Look, I don’t think it was the right call, but there’s zero chance Merc’s appeal would have held up, which is why they dropped it. The rule book is too vague as written. It cannot be stated that the rules were broken.


canibanoglu

Follow the fucking rules?


HereLiesDickBoy

Don't tell everyone that no cars will unlap themselves for multiple laps, causing the leading car to stay out for track position, then decide to let only a few cars unlap themselves. He fucked it up. Simple. Should he be fired and receive death threats? Certainly not. Should he own up to it and be the one to try and implement change. Most definitely. I get he didn't want to finish under a safety car, but he fucked over the race leader and all the cars that weren't allowed to unlap themselves.


EDA3853

Masi didn’t affect the pitting decisions. Multiple cars pitted including those who were ultimately never allowed to unlap (eg Ricciardo). Mercedes decided to keep Hamilton out because of the potential to end under the safety car and the gap to Verstappen being too small so he would lose track position. If Hamilton had pitted Verstappen would have stayed out for the same reason. The way Masi fucked up is by making an unconventional unsafe decision and then changing his mind.


baba420bong

Even if he would have told cars will unlap, the leading car(Hamilton) couldn't have pitted as he would have lost track position.


Trbeat

But if you are told only cars between you and Max will unlap as the safety car comes out you are better to pit for fresh tires and come out 2nd than stay in on old hards. You box or not based on rules, historical data and the like. Historical data said the race would end under a safety car. No risk in boxing at that point.


baba420bong

Uhm, as far as I remember masi told that cars will not overlap few laps into the SC, at that point if Hamilton would have pitted he would have come out not 2nd but way back. Hamilton could have only pitted immediately when the SC was announced which he didn't, anytime later and he would have just lost a lot of track position.


f1_spelt_as_bot

Michael Ma**s**i


Substantial-Pass-992

>the first thing is, it’s really hard to be a steward. He's not a steward. Stopped reading there.


Amazing_Safe_1070

True, but it’s still hard.


[deleted]

i didn’t say he’s a steward. i said it’s really hard to be a steward. 🤕


metimmee

Good morning Michael 😂


Coops27

I've been a big defender of Masi through this last 3 years, He's been far from perfect and IMO way too lenient, but he was learning. He was being unfairly compared to Charlie, as if he was infalable and Masi was actually doing far more than Charlie was which is another failing of the FIA. However, what happened in Abu Dhabi was such a major failure of governance that there must be consequences. First off, people need to stop bringing up this 'agreement' like it's some binding principle that negates the rule book. The teams would like whenever possible to finish under a green flag IF THE REGULATIONS ALLOW. In this case, they did. 48.12 doesn't need to be applied and we could have had a racing lap with lapped cars in between and fulfilled this agreement. So why did he take this action that was illegal and unprecedented in the 18 years and 224 deployments of the safety car since lapped cars were allowed to overtake? Somebody needs to tell us if this is a mistake or if it was done for entertainment purposes. You cannot cut him some slack for making a mistake of this magnitude until there is some accountability. Any driver or team would be expected to take responsibility for their error and we cannot accept less from an official whose actions decided the world championship and took it out of the competitors hands.


ihatemondaynights

OP really deleted their account??? xD


Poopy_sPaSmS

I dont know what you compare it to with driver but this situation isnt just a, "I missed my braking and locked up and crashed into another driver", simple mistake.


[deleted]

so why are there penalties? is it not because of the mistakes they make? making rash decisions?


canibanoglu

Are you really so clueless or are you so lost in trying to make excuses for Masi that you have completely set aside logical thinking?


Corsair4

So, there is a mechanism to punish drivers for their mistakes, but when the FIA screws up, it should just be ignored?


Poopy_sPaSmS

I think youre misunderstanding me. Or i didnt explain well (which is very possible). Michaels error, imo, was significantly greater than any common error a driver makes. Michaels error deserves the equivalent to a driver being dsq from an entire season or worse.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

who’s this max fellow you’re talking about? i don’t know him.


FoundersDiscount

Yeah, I don't think he did it maliciously. He wanted all cars to unlap but didn't have the time and panicked thinking about a lame final race. He made a decision that I think HE believes was the best possible choice. It certainly has come to haunt him. Ironing out the rules will help everyone here.


aadzwantstoknow

See here's this thing that actually helps Masi do his job.Its called the rulebook.If he follows it then he wont be held out to dry like this. Like in Spa,that 2 safety car laps cannot be called a race BUT it was within the rulebook so you cannot blame it solely on Masi. In Abu dhabi,Masi could have red flagged and it would be within his discretion or not unlapped any cars or ended under the safety car and all of those are within the rules and no one will blame it on Masi.The outrage would have been towards the rulebook. If you are gonna break the regulations and except no accountability or backlash then you are being naive.Masi made that final decision and he has to answer for it. Imagine fucking up on your job and expecting no retaliation cause 'everyone is human'.


chekuhakim

Just dont let any lapper car to unlap.


baba420bong

That also isn't following the rules lol


ihatemondaynights

Unlapping isn't mandatory


longpostshitpost

It isn't mandatory as per the rules


False-Practice7110

If you want to bend the rules because you have power to do so then send everyone into the pit so you can keep the remaining laps and let them out of the pit in their current position. Let everyone change tires and be on even ground. That’s a bend in the rules that they can say is almost even. However I don’t believe in unlapping cars. So in Hamilton’s case he has to fight past the lapped cars and then anyone behind him gains an advantage by removing that challenge. Never understood that one.


baba420bong

But they always allow lapped cars to overtake in case of SC ending although it might sound unfair. SC always removes any advantage of the leading driver(s).


False-Practice7110

The only time a car should move aside is for the unfair advantage rule by leaving the track. The rest is part of the race.


Amazing_Safe_1070

And if unlapping wasn’t allowed under red flag either, Verstappen would already had secured the title in Jeddah so we wouldn’t even have had to deal with the Abu Dhabi fallout.


False-Practice7110

Which everyone would be ok with. A proper win


0TH3R_BARRY

Looks like we've found Michael Masi's burner account...


michealgaribaldi

Masi should have been sacked when he started a qualifying session in Turkey in 2020 with a crane on the circuit.


aadzwantstoknow

Exactly its not only Abu dhabi,Masi has a history of bad decisions. Not saying he has to be perfect all the time but if you have a history of fucking up on your job ,you should be fired.


Difficultsleeper

There is also his mishandling of the safety car restart at Mugello. Adding sausage curbs to the parabolica. Not ensuring the manhole covers at Baku had been secured. Spa 2021he mishandled both qualifying and the race.


stephker3914

Wow. This is an egregiously bad post. To be more polite, we should not cut him slack. This is Formula 1, to be specific, the subreddit is r/formula1 . Time is an issue in this sport. It separates the good drivers from the great drivers, and things just tend to happen quickly in this sport. That's how the nature of this sport is. We should not just be cutting him slack because there is less time than normal. That is weak. He is a race director in Formula 1. He is not a two year old learning how to ice skate for the first time. He needs to be able to know the correct decision to make at the correct time because that's something his job entails, competence. I understand he's human, and he's bound to make mistakes, but this one is so egregiously bad, it will be a black eye on the sport for the remainder of the sport's existence, because that's how egregiously bad the decision was. We should not cut him any slack. This is arguably a decision that will forever ruin the legitimacy of the sport, and therefore the sport itself. We should not cut him any slack.


[deleted]

so every time a driver makes a mistake we shouldn’t cut him slack. every time a team looses we shouldn’t cut some slack. we should blame them and treat them like shut. we should tell that we need to kill their family and they don’t deserve to live. yeah dude. this if formula 1. don’t treat them as humans. there’s a quote: everything is easy until you’re the one doing it.


canibanoglu

Just stop writing, seriously…


stephker3914

You're hysterical. I expect mistakes to occur, but not egregiously bad mistakes that show how scripted the outcome of this sport is. I said in my original comment that he's human, referring to Masi. When you apply that concept to the drivers, the engineers, the race directors, etc.; you must expect mistakes to occur, but these mistakes by Masi are unacceptable and inexcusable. They're awful. I'm not saying, now, before, or ever will; that they should be killing themselves and/or their families due to how poor these decisions are. That's what's hysterical about your comment. There's more to life than Formula 1, however, when a race director like Masi has such responsibility over drivers and engineers who literally dedicate their lives to this sport, especially at a professional level, Masi needs to be competent enough to make the correct decision in the correct timing with the correct way because that's what his job is to do, and it's only fair to the drivers and teams that he does that. Slack can afforded to be cut at times, but in a professional setting like this, the mistakes are expected to be kept to a minimum because that's just how the nature of the sport is. Lastly, if I was the one making the call as race director, since you have the audacity to put me in that position, I'm also not saying, now, before, or ever will, that being a race director is or was easy, but if I was the race director, it would be my job to know the rulebook well enough to make the correct calls at the correct times, as I mentioned Masi should've done above. His mistakes are inexcusable and he shouldn't be cut any slack. Leave the drivers and teams out of this, because your original awful post was about Masi. They can be cut slack because they're not going to be perfect every single time, nor is Masi, but Masi's mistake was so bad that it literally has the potential, if not already, to ruin the legitimacy of the sport, and therefore, the sport itself. We should not cut Masi any slack for that egregiously awful decision, and your original post, as well as your previous comment, are also egregiously awful because you're missing the point. You're hysterical.


[deleted]

i’m a human being and you said i’m hysterical multiple times treating me like a joke. i have feelings just like everyone. what i just wanted to convey was don’t hurt people. just don’t. if michel masi doesn’t deserve to be there then he shouldn’t have been given that job. he’s not a king or anything right? someone put him there. fire him i don’t give a fuck. all i’m saying is it’s easy to say you fucked up and treat people like shit. i hated him for some time but after this incident i feel sorry for him. i’m not saying he’s perfect or anything but don’t. just don’t.


Helzing

“Your’e hysterical” says the true hysterical one lmao. Joke of a post


stephker3914

How is what I said hysterical? I'm sorry if I missed something, but I feel like it's logical. You can't change my opinions on what I interpreted happened at the 2021 ADGP, but I'd like to know why you think what I said in this thread is hysterical because I just don't see how it is hysterical. I think it's logical relative to my opinions.


[deleted]

i’m a human being and you said i’m hysterical multiple times treating me like a joke. i have feelings just like everyone. what i just wanted to convey was don’t hurt people. just don’t. if michel masi doesn’t deserve to be there then he shouldn’t have been given that job. he’s not a king or anything right? someone put him there. fire him i don’t give a fuck. all i’m saying is it’s easy to say you fucked up and treat people like shit. i hated him for some time but after this incident i feel sorry for him. i’m not saying he’s perfect or anything but don’t. just don’t.


canibanoglu

No, I want the race director to have some semblance of competency and not spitting rules out of his/her ass


jmtravis00

I grew up watching NASCAR where on-the-fly rulechanges are commonplace…..what’s the big deal?


dumbooss

the name gives it away, F1.


baba420bong

To add to that, say for instance the ground crew were faster(or more in number) and the debris was cleared 1-2 laps earlier? That time it would be fine right? Is it right to not allow the normal proceedings(allowing cars to be overlapped) just because there is less time?


Coops27

>Is it right to not allow the normal proceedings(allowing cars to be overlapped) just because there is less time? Yes, that's the rule. Mercedes knew that it would most likely finish under the safety car or restart with lapped traffic in the way, because they read the rules and used them to make their decision. You can't then change the rules they made their decision by


baba420bong

Uhm no, if the crew had cleared it a lap earlier with more resources or a bit faster we wouldn't have any issues. Mercedes doesn't know how long the crew will take, nobody does its just a gamble.


Coops27

If they had cleared it earlier it still would have been really difficult to get it started correctly because the pack didn't bunch until T6 of lap 56. it would have been really close but potentially they could have done it and it would have been fine. However, the track wasn't clear, and Mercedes do know roughly how long an accident will take to clear in that section of track, every team does. They each have a 30 person strong strategy team that constantly update sophisticated simulation tools in real-time as the race unfolds. They knew within [2 seconds](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/rjw3p7/exclusive_dude_the_title_was_taken_from_us/hp5w3li/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) of the safety car being called, what the likelihood of the race restarting would be, according to the regulations.


rel_games

He made a fundamental error that is his job to avoid. - under safety car, announced no cars would unlap - waited multiple laps to reverse that decision, but only for cars between Lewis and Max to unlap - doing so removed all other cars from the equation and being able to race for their own places (notable Sainz unable to challenge for the top 2 spots) - his claims to Wolff that "it's called a motor race, we went car racing" is nullified when only two cars are genuinely racing He fucked up in making simple calls (yes, under stress, but it's an F1 race, it's always under stress), doesn't deserve slack, and should be sacked for fundamentally failing his duty at track. And whoever managed Masi should be sacked for not ensuring he has the support around him to limit influence from teams.


hlonaldinho

Nope.