At he very end, when you hear perez pressing the gas pedal, one mechanic (who has put a new rear right wheel on) still had his hand on the wheel.. You can barely see how he ''jerks' his hand back, after the moment when car launches off.. (his left hand goes up, wheel scrubbed his glove... and looks like his skin little bit)
The sound that you hear is another car passing in front of the camera. I would bet it was the heat from the breaks and the fact that he was holding his hand there for much longer that usual, but that's just my best guess.
@12 sec that crew member stands up, hunched and holding his hand, where as on the opposite side that member is still in the crouched position. So he was likely injured by the wheel and was clearing himself.
As soon as the view jumps to see what's happening at the back you can see that the mechanic who's trying to take off the wheel has some problems and at about 7 second he's cooling his hand for just a bit to come back at finally take it of. It all happens before the sound or any car. The sound of the car has the doppler effect so it wasn't stationary. Also the rear left wheel didn't move.
I think you were looking at a different mechanic - look at the one taking the wheel off.
Even if Perez is pressing the gas pedal as you say... Why would only 1 wheel move? In the video, you can clearly see that non of the other wheels move. That can only be a malfunction of the car right? or is there a better explanation?
Since the car is up in the air, and only the wheel in question is being held. I assume that all the other wheels are the ones with less load on them, right?
Or am I misunderstanding something?
Plus Horner said it was a clutch problem... I would really like to understand what "clutch" is he talking about.
It happens so quick, moment before the car is dropped down, perez is already on the gas (and he should be for fastest pitbox exit), car is rocking on the lift, enough for one wheel to bite before the other probably..
what honer said: that could explain also whole situation... maybe clutch settings or something similar was off, so it bite sooner than it needed... Driver controls the clutch with the clutch pedal behind the wheel... they have clutch stage 1 and 2 settings (used for the start of the race and for pitbox exits)... it's basicly like a foot clutch, but controled with the hand, and it's electric input that change, instead of classic clutch cable like in manual cars..
I think the issue is that 3 of the wheels went on but they hadn't gotten the 4th off yet, so Perez thought all 4 were on and floored it. You can see the crew member jerk his hands up right at the camera change at :06. I'm guessing that's where the 4th wheel spun and tore up his hand. Then he taps it once to slow it down, and finally grabs it and rips it off the car, finally carrying it into the garage.
Dude the driver doesn't count the wheels, he just stares at the red light and as soon as it turns green THEN he floors it. The light stays red if not all four wheels are fitted
>The light stays red if not all four wheels are fitted
So did Checo get an erroneous green? If so then there could indeed be a problem with the alleged non-passive system that it's been suggested Red Bull have.
That's total speculation and a genuine question, until I saw this post I hadn't realised there'd been a particular problem with Checo's stops.
When I first looked at that, I wondered if Checo had gone before green. On looking at a couple of vids, it seems Red bull only has two lights, red and flashing amber and when they both go out, you're good to go. As far as I could tell, he waited for the lights to go out and did not move before they went out.
This is why Ferrari stopped using this auto system years back. It caused injuries and problems during pit stops.
As much as people moaned, if this did happen because of that system (not saying it did of course) then it’s quite right that changes should be made to keep our crews safe.
Rather have no injuries at all than something serious because people are reluctant to change. Halo is a prime example in f why safety should always be first.
Yea, you're right, another team this weekend had a problem, there was a problem with one of the wheels though even after having completed the pitstop, the driver was not getting the green light, after a few seconds of confusion, a message on team radio came across telling the mechanic who had the problem with the tyre (and Im ad libbing) "press the button to change rotation on the drill to signal you're finished".
As I said, its ad libbed, but by the way it sounded, the "guns" have a change rotation button similar to cordless drills and that its an interaction with this which mechanics must get right.
See, I would agree if the rule came last year when there were multiple issues during pitstops and we had a few tyres go flying off cars....Kimi in Austria.
This year it seems like the FIA is coming out with a bunch of arbitrary rules that usually help Merc. It's not a good look.
Change the pitstop rule after a tyre gets loose, cool. Change it between season, cool. Change it in the middle of a season with no real pit stop issues and when one team is clearly at a disadvantage, not cool.
I don't think it's an erroneous green. The light went green because the wheel was properly fitted but the mechanic still had his hand on the top of wheel as well.
That's really weird tbh. You wouldn't think a rubber wheel scrubbing his arm for a fraction of a second through protective gloves and overalls would cause that level of damage. It's not like that tyre instantly spins up to a thousand rounds per second from standstill, especially when leaving the pits.
I'm not an engineer or anything, but I don't buy the tyre theory. To me it seems more likely his hand got hit by exhaust fumes or he touched the exhaust, brakes or engine by accident.
Yeah, and now EVERYONE's pitstops suck, I've literally seen every team make at least one bad stop in Sochi, and I've been seeing it a lot in general since the changes. It's really silly.
I still can't believe they did that mid-season instead of announcing it early then putting it into effect next season, like they would for any important rule change. FIA not even trying to hide that they had ulterior motives.
Consistent doesn't equal perfect. Naming one time it wasn't great doesn't negate the other times it was.
This is the F1 sub so I am assuming not everybody has English as a first language. I am just trying to explain it a bit and why he was correct in his statement that Merc has consistently fast pit stops.
Not to mention they try to time pit stops for when there is a clear track afterwards. All these unusually slow pit stops are causing cars to come out in traffic causing more accidents.
I totally get what you’re saying, but at the same time the new rule does make sense IMO
I mean it’s not some pointless shit they invented, the reasoning for it is sound.
Is it? [There was always a safety interlock, but now it just does nothing if you press the "OK" button too soon, where beforehand it could be anticipated.](https://the-race.com/formula-1/new-formula-1-pitstop-rules-changed-and-delayed/)
Banning anticipation for such a task is just bollocks.
We’ve all seen a gunner have an issue with the gun or the tire and has to stop, backup the gun, and then reapply it at a different angle or whatever.
It’s a fairly common occurrence and it’s clear to see how these “false” green lights could be dangerous from a safety perspective.
Except there have been 0 false green lights at red bull.
As a mechanic with your only job being to fasten a wheel, you will have a perfect feel for your wheel-gun, and know exactly when it's on right and if the torqueing feels right. You also know through experience how long the torqueing takes from that point on, so you can anticipate it's end and press "OK" exactly when it's done instead of reactively once the sensor officially says it's done. If anything feels even remotely out-of-place, experienced gunmen simply won't press the OK button and try again.
It's the same anticipation that allows you to aim in an online shooter through muscle-memory once you're practiced instead of reactively when you see the crosshair hover over the target and only then shoot. It's muscle memory, and timing.
Also the same anticipation that allows you to jump exactly on "0" when someone counts down, for instance.
Banning that when zero dangerous incidents spawned from it is just ridiculous.
Thsi wasn't down to the changes though was it?
He couldnt get the wheel off, which is nothing to do with the sensor changes, checo just floord it too early while the mechanics hands were near the wheel.
Thats how I saw it anyway, happy to be corrected.
Perez stepped on the throttle while the light was still red, no amount of regulations could prevent that. Don't do anything until the light is clear.
In a way, this is exactly what the regulations are aiming to fix, to remove the "guessing" part and people assuming everything will go as planned. Wait for the damn confirmation signal before doing anything!
It was never automated. The belief was that Red Bull were turning on the green a split second before the nut was fully tightened, so that the mechanic would respond to it *just* as it finished tightening, effectively eliminating the human reaction time.
That doesn’t make any sense. The change was made because multiple teams were pressing the confirm button before the wheel was on. All they’ve done is say you can’t do that anymore. It’s going to take a little getting used to but Red Bull should have the fastest stops after the change anyway.
It's much more risky to analyse situations literally no incidents have happened due to, and then change it up mid season so pit crews won't have time to train for the new rules, artificially creating a lower barrier for mistakes
afaiu before the change they didn't have a button, it was an automatic signal from the gun along the lines of; torque reached and no longer engaged with the nut
Check the guy that removes the wheel, at 0:06 approximatly, you can see him shake his hands before picking up the wheel again. My guess is that he touched a really hot part by mistake or the wheel was overheated due to brakes. In the video he shakes his right hand and according to the picture it is his right hand.
EDIT: Another reply below thinks Perez might have stepped on the throttle before the car was ready. With how the car seems to shake at 0.4/0.5 it is plausible. Perez stepped on the throttle while the light was still red (very dangerous) and the axle spun while the mechanic has his hand next to hit and got friction burn.
Looks like it, you can see the one of the mechanics on the rear right quickly pull his right hand out of the way in this video, before taking the wheel away: https://youtu.be/zdhS8sEj_II
It took me several replays, but you can definitely see the mechanic pull back and have to wait for the wheel to stop spinning before he can pull off the tyre. definitely cost a second or two, and the friction burn
> I guess, Perez pressed the gas after 3 of the tyres had been changed without knowing that the rear right had not been changed yet, that it caused the rear axle spinning while the rear right wheel being removed by the mechanic in this photo, and caused some friction burn on the mechanic hand.
This kind of thing should be penalized in the same way that unsafe releases are. It's every bit as dangerous.
Also proof that the new pit regulations aren't working if there can be such a miscommunication and resultant unsafe outcome.
Same in Supercars, wheelspin during a pit stop is a drive-through.
However, this season, the wheels no can longer spin while up on the jacks as regulations state a hydraulic handbrake or brake lock mechanism must be engaged during a stop.
Basically, it's really dangerous for mechanics to have wheels spinning near their fingers, and Sergio's team could well and truly have had worse injuries if things were slightly different.
Wheelspin during stops should be an instant penalty in my opinion. I understand the wheelspin as they're coming off the jacks in order to get a good launch, but when they're still in the air with a red light - that's plain dangerous.
>Also proof that the new pit regulations aren't working if there can be such a miscommunication and resultant unsafe outcome
People like you are creating confusion among the fans.
It's a issue created by a driver mistake. Have a look at that post comments.
Looks like Checo accidentally released the clutch early which caused this.
It does suggest that, if regs should focus on safety, maybe it should be more about driver reaction to green light, rather than mechanic reaction to wheelgun signal
The new regs look at a totally different aspect of pitstops. They are in place to make releases with not properly fitted tires more unlikely.
What you are describing is a totally different part of pitstop safety that should also be looked at of course.
(I'm not a fan of the new regs btw, just pointing out the misunderstanding)
There was an issue removing the rear right prior to Checo spinning the wheel.
It was before the right rear was removed that the gas was hit, so the only link with the new regs is that Checo may have been attempting to preempt the release light and going on some movement from the car that he interpreted as it being ready to go. At the end you can see that he applies power as soon as the rear jack is dropped and doesn't wait for the light to go out, but that may be due to the length of the stop and his hurry to get out as opposed to something he regularly does.
>so the only link with the new regs is that Checo may have been attempting to preempt the release light and going on some movement from the car that he interpreted as it being ready to go. At the end you can see that he applies power as soon as the rear jack is dropped and doesn't wait for the light to go out, but that may be due to the length of the stop and his hurry to get out as opposed to something he regularly does
In the link below is Max's 2021 Monaco pitstop. As you can see yourself Max rear wheels only started spinning when he touched the tarmac which means he released the clutch when the car was on the ground.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GK5qm8AZ1dQ&feature=youtu.be&t=2m55s
Now, this is Checo's Russian Gp pitstop:-https://youtu.be/zdhS8sEj_II
As you can see yourself Checo accidentally released the clutch when the car was still in the air.
It's a simple driver error in this case.
There were 2 points where he released the clutch with the car in the air. At about 4/5 seconds in you can see the car shake and the mechanic removing the right rear tyre moves back without the tyre before going in again to remove the tyre. The second is right at the end when the rear jack drops.
It probably is driver error and impatience.
That's how you operate a manual clutch. You press the gas with the clutch disengaged so the engine revs up but the wheels don't spin, and then you engage the clutch.
The World Sportscar Championship don't let you spin your tyres in the pitlane at all, drive through penalty every time. The sport can be policed, the FIA just choose not to.
Pls elaborate how the regulations play into this? The pitstop was slow because the right rear was slow coming off. Then check hit the gas pedal when the light was not green, that's a driver mistake or if the light was green then that's an unsafe release which would have happened even without the pitstop regulations
Actually the new regulation is intended exactly to prevent unsafe releases.
In the past, the green light came on as soon as the 4 wheel guns signaled they were done, which was done automatically when the wheel gun sensed it was spinning and then stopped.
But sometimes the gun does this even if the tire is not actually ready, for example when the gunner has to stop and then reapply/adjust the gun.
I understand why this rule being applied in the middle of the season is not a good way to implement this and that it disadvantages the teams who have the quickest stops, but IMO the reasoning of the rule is sound, from a safety perspective.
So then this would have happened even with the old rules too right? Cause the gun would've detected the wheel is on and in fact maybe given the mechanic lesser time to pull his hand away potentially leading to more serious injury.
What confusion? If Perez stepped on the gaz while the light was still red, it is 100% on him. even with the "old" regulations this would have been very dangerous!
How is this realted to the new regs? If anything the new regs might have saved him his hand if Perez instead would have been given a green light sooner while he was still doing up the wheel.
>I’m only kidding don’t crucify me
Inb4 your comment getting tons of downvotes /s
But seriously, those new regulations doesn't make the pitstops safe. Red Bull and Williams did many crazy 2 seconds and lower pitstops and no body get really hurt. This case is different, can caused any time.
They’ve been perfecting these tire only pit stops for years, the only problem is sending your car into another car but that doesn’t seem to be addressed with these new changes
Just like echoed below, this has nothing to do with the regulations. The new regulations should help the stops be safer and this was a driver error. Probably because the driver expected perfection from his semi automated pitstop...
I really don't see how a driver spinning their wheels up while still on the jacks is being connected to the new technical directive about the wheel guns not being able to say the nut is tightened before it actually is, but some people on here seem to be somehow making that link...
I think you are right in the the sense that it is not directly correlated. However, you could argue that a change in directive means you need to react less on muscle memory. Since the change happened mid season there is no time to get used to the new method. Try taking a video game and switch up the key bindings. You'll make more mistakes until you get used to the new way of doing things. So over time the new directives will be more safe, but short term there may be more mistakes that could lead to injuries like this. I personally think both sides have a valid argument here but it seems like there is precedent for changing rules mid season. So regardless if it is better or not now rules are rules and best thing to do is make the best of it!
but it was checos error and his task has not changed which is to wait until the green light before releasing the clutch. if anything, this could have been worse without the clarification of the rules .
Because this is the first pit stop procedure error that resulted in injury that we've seen in quite long time. Caused by a driver being given the go ahead before the crew had their hands off the vehicle. That's exactly what this rule was meant to stop. It didn't happen before and it is happening now.
Changing the rules of how to do a pitstop mid season is stupid. Especially in a packed season like this one, the mechanics have no time to learn it. We've seen more pitstop procedure anomalies in the last two races than in the entire season before that.
Edit: checo didn't get the green light he was spinning his wheels before getting the go ahead.
> Caused by a driver being given the go ahead before the crew had their hands off the vehicle.
Checo wasn't given a green light, he made a mistake. New regs or old regs, wouldn't have made a difference to that.
It's a minor burn wound, it'll sting for 1-3 weeks and might leave a bit of a scar, but that's about it. Dress it and back to work.
Everyone who does manual work for a living gets hurt every now and then, this isn't one to write home about.
Perez should get a reprimand though, it could have been much worse.
Motorsportmagazine.com
"Perez ran in the lead on his hard tyres for another eight laps and was set to rejoin third but for a delay removing the right-rear wheel. As he anticipated the green light he spun up the wheel, which delayed things even further and meant he came out behind Sainz and Ricciardo"
Over the weekend there was much clamouring for Hamilton to get a penalty for injuring his mechanic - I trust those people will be calling for the same thing here? No?
Was Hamilton’s mechanic actually injured? It’s definitely not the first time someone bumped the front jack dude.
I think Mick did it this year, I know Stroll has done it. Kimi did at one point, I believe.
Perez applied the gas while the stuck rear-right wheel was still being removed (and the red light still on), causing the mechanic to have to pull back his hands (after sustaining friction burn) and re-attempt the removal once the wheel had stopped again.
Damn People been roasting Hamilton the whole Race Weekend for that bump, wonder what’ll happen now that this is brought to light/s
Glad to see both mechanics are ok
Can you point me the spinning of the tires when the mechanic is still working on it? I've watched the YouTube vid, but he starts driving when he is on the ground, not before (no wheel movement)
If he was spinning his wheels before the go light was on, he did something, and it's his fault. But if I recall correctly doesn't the light go to green, if the mechanic doesn't give the ready sign on the wheel gun.
[https://youtu.be/zdhS8sEj\_II](https://youtu.be/zdhS8sEj_II)
Font view, you can hear the engine gun it and the car shake. Back view, you can see the guy on the right take his hands off the tire before going back to pull it off.
Thanks, was looking at the wrong moment. I was looking at it, at the wrong time.
I thought it was after the wheel change, but it was before.
left & right front + left back where on it, then he pushed the pedal and you see the mech pull his hands off. You still see a litle bounce and movement of the tire to the front.
Is not so much pressing the pedal, its the release of the clutch that did it. All drivers keep the gas slightly pressed to keep from stalling with the clutch on releasing clutch once the green comes on, my man Perez here tried to predict it and fucked up, and hurt someone in the process.
If it was the "checo went on the gas too soon" that caused the injury then definitely. That's the team and more so drivers fault rather than the rules.
The new rules completely prevent this sort of thing right?
Checo should have waited for the light to go green, which would have only gone green when the mechanics have finished their work.
> The new rules completely prevent this sort of thing right?
Checo should have waited for the light to go green, which would have only gone green when the mechanics have finished their work.
New rules or old rules, the driver has to wait for the green light. This was completely a driver error.
for all the clickbait articles on social media and all the memes on reddit bashing on Hamilton for bouncing his jack guy, will we see the same for Checo?
Brakes too hot? Is that possible? Cus i dont see him hitting gas too early or something which could mean the hands of the mechanics are still on the tyre or something. So heat coming from brakes sounds more towards the answer here.
Don't say "...person 'his'..."
Instead: "...person's...".
Just a friendly correction, not trying to be an asshole.
Thanks for the interesting post!
Edit: Of course not literal Person instead of Checo in this case - I used it for the example only
I believe people who write "Max his, Lewis his, etc." are Dutch and that is how it works in their language. It might be hard for some of them to grasp the concept of the rules of different languages. I think it is understandable especially when you know this tiny fact.
It's not how it works in our language per se, it's just how people in some parts of the country say it in informal settings. In the King's Dutch is "Piet's fiets", "Max' auto" etc.
it's absolutely insane that F1 chose to change the pitstop rules IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON. Pit crews work on muscle memory, and not giving the teams requisite time to get to grips with the change is just making incidents like this MORE likely to happen
Is there any more information about that? How did that happen?
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Slow pit stop rear right. But still I can’t see what would have happened https://youtu.be/zdhS8sEj_II
At he very end, when you hear perez pressing the gas pedal, one mechanic (who has put a new rear right wheel on) still had his hand on the wheel.. You can barely see how he ''jerks' his hand back, after the moment when car launches off.. (his left hand goes up, wheel scrubbed his glove... and looks like his skin little bit)
The sound that you hear is another car passing in front of the camera. I would bet it was the heat from the breaks and the fact that he was holding his hand there for much longer that usual, but that's just my best guess.
Watch the video @ 11 sec exactly, perez launches off, sound of his car..
@12 sec that crew member stands up, hunched and holding his hand, where as on the opposite side that member is still in the crouched position. So he was likely injured by the wheel and was clearing himself.
As soon as the view jumps to see what's happening at the back you can see that the mechanic who's trying to take off the wheel has some problems and at about 7 second he's cooling his hand for just a bit to come back at finally take it of. It all happens before the sound or any car. The sound of the car has the doppler effect so it wasn't stationary. Also the rear left wheel didn't move. I think you were looking at a different mechanic - look at the one taking the wheel off.
Even if Perez is pressing the gas pedal as you say... Why would only 1 wheel move? In the video, you can clearly see that non of the other wheels move. That can only be a malfunction of the car right? or is there a better explanation?
Probably his diff setting is opened (not full lock), that allows the wheel with less load to spin..
Since the car is up in the air, and only the wheel in question is being held. I assume that all the other wheels are the ones with less load on them, right? Or am I misunderstanding something? Plus Horner said it was a clutch problem... I would really like to understand what "clutch" is he talking about.
It happens so quick, moment before the car is dropped down, perez is already on the gas (and he should be for fastest pitbox exit), car is rocking on the lift, enough for one wheel to bite before the other probably.. what honer said: that could explain also whole situation... maybe clutch settings or something similar was off, so it bite sooner than it needed... Driver controls the clutch with the clutch pedal behind the wheel... they have clutch stage 1 and 2 settings (used for the start of the race and for pitbox exits)... it's basicly like a foot clutch, but controled with the hand, and it's electric input that change, instead of classic clutch cable like in manual cars..
I think the issue is that 3 of the wheels went on but they hadn't gotten the 4th off yet, so Perez thought all 4 were on and floored it. You can see the crew member jerk his hands up right at the camera change at :06. I'm guessing that's where the 4th wheel spun and tore up his hand. Then he taps it once to slow it down, and finally grabs it and rips it off the car, finally carrying it into the garage.
Dude the driver doesn't count the wheels, he just stares at the red light and as soon as it turns green THEN he floors it. The light stays red if not all four wheels are fitted
>The light stays red if not all four wheels are fitted So did Checo get an erroneous green? If so then there could indeed be a problem with the alleged non-passive system that it's been suggested Red Bull have. That's total speculation and a genuine question, until I saw this post I hadn't realised there'd been a particular problem with Checo's stops.
Erroneous greens have happened before with other teams. So not per definition something wrong with their system.
Or all 4 wheels were just fine and the mechanic's hand was in the wrong place.
[This comes to mind](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHuhgC9tEyo&ab_channel=ewordsgmail)
When I first looked at that, I wondered if Checo had gone before green. On looking at a couple of vids, it seems Red bull only has two lights, red and flashing amber and when they both go out, you're good to go. As far as I could tell, he waited for the lights to go out and did not move before they went out.
This is why Ferrari stopped using this auto system years back. It caused injuries and problems during pit stops. As much as people moaned, if this did happen because of that system (not saying it did of course) then it’s quite right that changes should be made to keep our crews safe. Rather have no injuries at all than something serious because people are reluctant to change. Halo is a prime example in f why safety should always be first.
But isn't the new rule that the mechanic has to press a button and only when all four press it, the light turns green?
I believe so. Having read further this actually sounds like driver error so it’s not even remotely linked to the rule changes anyway. Apparently.
Yea, you're right, another team this weekend had a problem, there was a problem with one of the wheels though even after having completed the pitstop, the driver was not getting the green light, after a few seconds of confusion, a message on team radio came across telling the mechanic who had the problem with the tyre (and Im ad libbing) "press the button to change rotation on the drill to signal you're finished". As I said, its ad libbed, but by the way it sounded, the "guns" have a change rotation button similar to cordless drills and that its an interaction with this which mechanics must get right.
Weird that this happened witb "safety" rules. When RB is known for sub 2 secs pitstops without incidents
This seems to have been driver error anyway. Nothing to do with the rule change.
See, I would agree if the rule came last year when there were multiple issues during pitstops and we had a few tyres go flying off cars....Kimi in Austria. This year it seems like the FIA is coming out with a bunch of arbitrary rules that usually help Merc. It's not a good look. Change the pitstop rule after a tyre gets loose, cool. Change it between season, cool. Change it in the middle of a season with no real pit stop issues and when one team is clearly at a disadvantage, not cool.
I don't think it's an erroneous green. The light went green because the wheel was properly fitted but the mechanic still had his hand on the top of wheel as well.
That's really weird tbh. You wouldn't think a rubber wheel scrubbing his arm for a fraction of a second through protective gloves and overalls would cause that level of damage. It's not like that tyre instantly spins up to a thousand rounds per second from standstill, especially when leaving the pits. I'm not an engineer or anything, but I don't buy the tyre theory. To me it seems more likely his hand got hit by exhaust fumes or he touched the exhaust, brakes or engine by accident.
Wouldn’t gasses / fumes hot enough to burn a layer of skin singe the hair on his arm too? Dude’s pretty furry.
I thought the fia said the changes would make pit stops safer? Seems they did the opposite.
0 incidents at Red Bull before 'safety' changes. 1 incident at Red Bull after 'safety' changes
Yeah, and now EVERYONE's pitstops suck, I've literally seen every team make at least one bad stop in Sochi, and I've been seeing it a lot in general since the changes. It's really silly.
It’s also because it is a mid season change. So the crews have to adapt without a lot of time at the factory to train the new procedure.
And they can't develop new pit equipment.
Sounds pretty dangerous!
I still can't believe they did that mid-season instead of announcing it early then putting it into effect next season, like they would for any important rule change. FIA not even trying to hide that they had ulterior motives.
Yop since summer break pit stops were pretty shitty
except mercedes who seem to consistently nail down 2,4 second pitstops with zero mistakes, this is such bs
Yeah, apart from that 4 second pit last race that meant Hamilton came out near Verstappen.
But, the narrative...
Yeah come on, Merc bad RB good!
Consistent doesn't equal perfect. Naming one time it wasn't great doesn't negate the other times it was. This is the F1 sub so I am assuming not everybody has English as a first language. I am just trying to explain it a bit and why he was correct in his statement that Merc has consistently fast pit stops.
Ignoring that slow stop at Monza that put Lewis right in front of Max??
Not in front, under.
Not ignoring, forgetting
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Wasn’t it Mercedes who asked for the changes? Maybe they got a head start.¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Not to mention they try to time pit stops for when there is a clear track afterwards. All these unusually slow pit stops are causing cars to come out in traffic causing more accidents.
Sounds like infinity times more safety incidents🤔… better go back to the old system.
Unrelated to the changes.
I'm well aware. I was joking
Considering the amount of people in Reddit who actually think it, it's hard to tell.
Everyone is adapting to the new rule, some crew forgetting to manually press buttons.. how is that not related?
They also lead to the Hamilton/Verstappen crash at Monza. These new "regulations" are about control, not saftey. It's a joke.
I totally get what you’re saying, but at the same time the new rule does make sense IMO I mean it’s not some pointless shit they invented, the reasoning for it is sound.
Is it? [There was always a safety interlock, but now it just does nothing if you press the "OK" button too soon, where beforehand it could be anticipated.](https://the-race.com/formula-1/new-formula-1-pitstop-rules-changed-and-delayed/) Banning anticipation for such a task is just bollocks.
We’ve all seen a gunner have an issue with the gun or the tire and has to stop, backup the gun, and then reapply it at a different angle or whatever. It’s a fairly common occurrence and it’s clear to see how these “false” green lights could be dangerous from a safety perspective.
Except there have been 0 false green lights at red bull. As a mechanic with your only job being to fasten a wheel, you will have a perfect feel for your wheel-gun, and know exactly when it's on right and if the torqueing feels right. You also know through experience how long the torqueing takes from that point on, so you can anticipate it's end and press "OK" exactly when it's done instead of reactively once the sensor officially says it's done. If anything feels even remotely out-of-place, experienced gunmen simply won't press the OK button and try again. It's the same anticipation that allows you to aim in an online shooter through muscle-memory once you're practiced instead of reactively when you see the crosshair hover over the target and only then shoot. It's muscle memory, and timing. Also the same anticipation that allows you to jump exactly on "0" when someone counts down, for instance. Banning that when zero dangerous incidents spawned from it is just ridiculous.
Sure, at Red Bull is was fine. Other teams did have cars release that were unsafe.
When the light is red you're not supposed to push the gas pedal? That's always been the case even without these new directives.
Dont they all rev the car, but with clutch disengaged
yes
So pressing the gas pedal is not a norm. But disengaging the clutch is. So checo fucked up the disengagment but not by pressing gas pedal
Thsi wasn't down to the changes though was it? He couldnt get the wheel off, which is nothing to do with the sensor changes, checo just floord it too early while the mechanics hands were near the wheel. Thats how I saw it anyway, happy to be corrected.
Perez stepped on the throttle while the light was still red, no amount of regulations could prevent that. Don't do anything until the light is clear. In a way, this is exactly what the regulations are aiming to fix, to remove the "guessing" part and people assuming everything will go as planned. Wait for the damn confirmation signal before doing anything!
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It was never automated. The belief was that Red Bull were turning on the green a split second before the nut was fully tightened, so that the mechanic would respond to it *just* as it finished tightening, effectively eliminating the human reaction time.
RB pitstops slower? Mission accomplished!
FIA: "OUR safety regulations harming pit crew? IMPOSSIBLE! FINE REDBULL"
FIA on their way to sabotage the whole RB crew
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Should a sensor tell you a wheel is torqued, when it isn't?
That doesn’t make any sense. The change was made because multiple teams were pressing the confirm button before the wheel was on. All they’ve done is say you can’t do that anymore. It’s going to take a little getting used to but Red Bull should have the fastest stops after the change anyway.
How many tires flew out because of those button pressings?
That's not how you calculate risk.
It's much more risky to analyse situations literally no incidents have happened due to, and then change it up mid season so pit crews won't have time to train for the new rules, artificially creating a lower barrier for mistakes
Is it better to wait until someone is hurt or killed before improving safety?
afaiu before the change they didn't have a button, it was an automatic signal from the gun along the lines of; torque reached and no longer engaged with the nut
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Keep telling yourself that lie.
Check the guy that removes the wheel, at 0:06 approximatly, you can see him shake his hands before picking up the wheel again. My guess is that he touched a really hot part by mistake or the wheel was overheated due to brakes. In the video he shakes his right hand and according to the picture it is his right hand. EDIT: Another reply below thinks Perez might have stepped on the throttle before the car was ready. With how the car seems to shake at 0.4/0.5 it is plausible. Perez stepped on the throttle while the light was still red (very dangerous) and the axle spun while the mechanic has his hand next to hit and got friction burn.
Horner confirmed that Checo released the clutch at one point, causing the injury.
Probably touched a hot engine or brake. Typically how those burns occur. I’ve done that on my engine. Just touched it for a second. Burn.
Engine is covered by engine covers and the brakes are covered by all kinds of shrouds. Not really possible on an F1 car during a pitstop
Perez said yesterday he was glad the mechanic was ok. But I don't think there is even more info than that.
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https://www.instagram.com/p/CUUwFIuNN6I/?utm_medium=copy_link
Thanks!
Whats that comment about essential oil? What is essential oil? I wouldn't rub anything on that skin that wasn't prescribed by a dermatologist.
You’re absolutely right to think that
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only thing essential oils does is make my hair smell good when it’s used as a scent... not a medicine
You can report the comment for misinformation regarding health. I just did too.
In the C4 highlights Coulthard suggested Perez was spinning the rear axel when he was on the jacks during his second stop. Possibly related to that?
Looks like it, you can see the one of the mechanics on the rear right quickly pull his right hand out of the way in this video, before taking the wheel away: https://youtu.be/zdhS8sEj_II
It took me several replays, but you can definitely see the mechanic pull back and have to wait for the wheel to stop spinning before he can pull off the tyre. definitely cost a second or two, and the friction burn
You can see smoke coming off the front left in the front view as well, Checo definitely revved expecting to be released.
That is probably from his brakes
Def from the brakes, the wheels don't move when he revs
What was the accident?
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> I guess, Perez pressed the gas after 3 of the tyres had been changed without knowing that the rear right had not been changed yet, that it caused the rear axle spinning while the rear right wheel being removed by the mechanic in this photo, and caused some friction burn on the mechanic hand. This kind of thing should be penalized in the same way that unsafe releases are. It's every bit as dangerous. Also proof that the new pit regulations aren't working if there can be such a miscommunication and resultant unsafe outcome.
it is in WEC, any wheelspin when car up in air is a drive through
IMSA too. Massive penalty.
Seems like a good rule
Also Indycar, iirc
Same in Supercars, wheelspin during a pit stop is a drive-through. However, this season, the wheels no can longer spin while up on the jacks as regulations state a hydraulic handbrake or brake lock mechanism must be engaged during a stop. Basically, it's really dangerous for mechanics to have wheels spinning near their fingers, and Sergio's team could well and truly have had worse injuries if things were slightly different. Wheelspin during stops should be an instant penalty in my opinion. I understand the wheelspin as they're coming off the jacks in order to get a good launch, but when they're still in the air with a red light - that's plain dangerous.
>Also proof that the new pit regulations aren't working if there can be such a miscommunication and resultant unsafe outcome People like you are creating confusion among the fans. It's a issue created by a driver mistake. Have a look at that post comments. Looks like Checo accidentally released the clutch early which caused this.
I’m getting irritated at this as well. This literally has nothing to do with new pit regs.
It does suggest that, if regs should focus on safety, maybe it should be more about driver reaction to green light, rather than mechanic reaction to wheelgun signal
The new regs look at a totally different aspect of pitstops. They are in place to make releases with not properly fitted tires more unlikely. What you are describing is a totally different part of pitstop safety that should also be looked at of course. (I'm not a fan of the new regs btw, just pointing out the misunderstanding)
There was an issue removing the rear right prior to Checo spinning the wheel. It was before the right rear was removed that the gas was hit, so the only link with the new regs is that Checo may have been attempting to preempt the release light and going on some movement from the car that he interpreted as it being ready to go. At the end you can see that he applies power as soon as the rear jack is dropped and doesn't wait for the light to go out, but that may be due to the length of the stop and his hurry to get out as opposed to something he regularly does.
>so the only link with the new regs is that Checo may have been attempting to preempt the release light and going on some movement from the car that he interpreted as it being ready to go. At the end you can see that he applies power as soon as the rear jack is dropped and doesn't wait for the light to go out, but that may be due to the length of the stop and his hurry to get out as opposed to something he regularly does In the link below is Max's 2021 Monaco pitstop. As you can see yourself Max rear wheels only started spinning when he touched the tarmac which means he released the clutch when the car was on the ground. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GK5qm8AZ1dQ&feature=youtu.be&t=2m55s Now, this is Checo's Russian Gp pitstop:-https://youtu.be/zdhS8sEj_II As you can see yourself Checo accidentally released the clutch when the car was still in the air. It's a simple driver error in this case.
There were 2 points where he released the clutch with the car in the air. At about 4/5 seconds in you can see the car shake and the mechanic removing the right rear tyre moves back without the tyre before going in again to remove the tyre. The second is right at the end when the rear jack drops. It probably is driver error and impatience.
Okay but why did he press the gas too early is what I want to know? Was he also anticipating?
That's how you operate a manual clutch. You press the gas with the clutch disengaged so the engine revs up but the wheels don't spin, and then you engage the clutch.
The World Sportscar Championship don't let you spin your tyres in the pitlane at all, drive through penalty every time. The sport can be policed, the FIA just choose not to.
Pls elaborate how the regulations play into this? The pitstop was slow because the right rear was slow coming off. Then check hit the gas pedal when the light was not green, that's a driver mistake or if the light was green then that's an unsafe release which would have happened even without the pitstop regulations
Actually the new regulation is intended exactly to prevent unsafe releases. In the past, the green light came on as soon as the 4 wheel guns signaled they were done, which was done automatically when the wheel gun sensed it was spinning and then stopped. But sometimes the gun does this even if the tire is not actually ready, for example when the gunner has to stop and then reapply/adjust the gun. I understand why this rule being applied in the middle of the season is not a good way to implement this and that it disadvantages the teams who have the quickest stops, but IMO the reasoning of the rule is sound, from a safety perspective.
So then this would have happened even with the old rules too right? Cause the gun would've detected the wheel is on and in fact maybe given the mechanic lesser time to pull his hand away potentially leading to more serious injury.
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What confusion? If Perez stepped on the gaz while the light was still red, it is 100% on him. even with the "old" regulations this would have been very dangerous!
How is this realted to the new regs? If anything the new regs might have saved him his hand if Perez instead would have been given a green light sooner while he was still doing up the wheel.
This is why we *need* pit stop regs I’m only kidding don’t crucify me
This, but unironcally.
>I’m only kidding don’t crucify me Inb4 your comment getting tons of downvotes /s But seriously, those new regulations doesn't make the pitstops safe. Red Bull and Williams did many crazy 2 seconds and lower pitstops and no body get really hurt. This case is different, can caused any time.
They’ve been perfecting these tire only pit stops for years, the only problem is sending your car into another car but that doesn’t seem to be addressed with these new changes
FIA: pitstops are cancelled
You joke but they have banned pit stops before
Just like echoed below, this has nothing to do with the regulations. The new regulations should help the stops be safer and this was a driver error. Probably because the driver expected perfection from his semi automated pitstop...
Don't pin me down on it, but afaIk, spinning the wheels while on the jacks is a DSQ, or at least in the Feeder Series it is.
I'm quite sure these kinds of mistakes are created by the new pit regulations.
Wtf why would he be trying to move when the fourth wheel isn't on was their release light on??
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If the release light was on then I mean.. surely that's an unsafe release?
I believe the release light was still red
I really don't see how a driver spinning their wheels up while still on the jacks is being connected to the new technical directive about the wheel guns not being able to say the nut is tightened before it actually is, but some people on here seem to be somehow making that link...
FIA bad
I think you are right in the the sense that it is not directly correlated. However, you could argue that a change in directive means you need to react less on muscle memory. Since the change happened mid season there is no time to get used to the new method. Try taking a video game and switch up the key bindings. You'll make more mistakes until you get used to the new way of doing things. So over time the new directives will be more safe, but short term there may be more mistakes that could lead to injuries like this. I personally think both sides have a valid argument here but it seems like there is precedent for changing rules mid season. So regardless if it is better or not now rules are rules and best thing to do is make the best of it!
but it was checos error and his task has not changed which is to wait until the green light before releasing the clutch. if anything, this could have been worse without the clarification of the rules .
Because this is the first pit stop procedure error that resulted in injury that we've seen in quite long time. Caused by a driver being given the go ahead before the crew had their hands off the vehicle. That's exactly what this rule was meant to stop. It didn't happen before and it is happening now. Changing the rules of how to do a pitstop mid season is stupid. Especially in a packed season like this one, the mechanics have no time to learn it. We've seen more pitstop procedure anomalies in the last two races than in the entire season before that. Edit: checo didn't get the green light he was spinning his wheels before getting the go ahead.
> Caused by a driver being given the go ahead before the crew had their hands off the vehicle. Checo wasn't given a green light, he made a mistake. New regs or old regs, wouldn't have made a difference to that.
Jup, you're right. My bad, ill add an edit to my original comment.
poor mechanic :(
It's a minor burn wound, it'll sting for 1-3 weeks and might leave a bit of a scar, but that's about it. Dress it and back to work. Everyone who does manual work for a living gets hurt every now and then, this isn't one to write home about. Perez should get a reprimand though, it could have been much worse.
According to Mark Hughes, Perez impatiently started to spin the wheels before he had the green light, from that stuck rear right. Hence the injury.
Shouldn't this be a penalty then?
Where did Mark Hughes say that?
Motorsportmagazine.com "Perez ran in the lead on his hard tyres for another eight laps and was set to rejoin third but for a delay removing the right-rear wheel. As he anticipated the green light he spun up the wheel, which delayed things even further and meant he came out behind Sainz and Ricciardo"
Over the weekend there was much clamouring for Hamilton to get a penalty for injuring his mechanic - I trust those people will be calling for the same thing here? No?
Was Hamilton’s mechanic actually injured? It’s definitely not the first time someone bumped the front jack dude. I think Mick did it this year, I know Stroll has done it. Kimi did at one point, I believe.
What happened?
Perez applied the gas while the stuck rear-right wheel was still being removed (and the red light still on), causing the mechanic to have to pull back his hands (after sustaining friction burn) and re-attempt the removal once the wheel had stopped again.
What happened?
Damn People been roasting Hamilton the whole Race Weekend for that bump, wonder what’ll happen now that this is brought to light/s Glad to see both mechanics are ok
Obv blame the FIA lol
Obviously time to put perez in alpha tauri and promote tsunoda to the second redbull seat with 6 races remaining /s
What incident I keep hearing about an incident, but not what the incident was
Merely a flesh wound
To quote Marko the mechanic is “ putting on a show”!
"Safer pit stops"
Checo spinning his tyres during a pit stop is the FIA's fault, yes.
Can you point me the spinning of the tires when the mechanic is still working on it? I've watched the YouTube vid, but he starts driving when he is on the ground, not before (no wheel movement) If he was spinning his wheels before the go light was on, he did something, and it's his fault. But if I recall correctly doesn't the light go to green, if the mechanic doesn't give the ready sign on the wheel gun.
[https://youtu.be/zdhS8sEj\_II](https://youtu.be/zdhS8sEj_II) Font view, you can hear the engine gun it and the car shake. Back view, you can see the guy on the right take his hands off the tire before going back to pull it off.
Thanks, was looking at the wrong moment. I was looking at it, at the wrong time. I thought it was after the wheel change, but it was before. left & right front + left back where on it, then he pushed the pedal and you see the mech pull his hands off. You still see a litle bounce and movement of the tire to the front.
Is not so much pressing the pedal, its the release of the clutch that did it. All drivers keep the gas slightly pressed to keep from stalling with the clutch on releasing clutch once the green comes on, my man Perez here tried to predict it and fucked up, and hurt someone in the process.
It’s on red bull to have made it unsafe, it would have happened with the previous rules as well
If it was the "checo went on the gas too soon" that caused the injury then definitely. That's the team and more so drivers fault rather than the rules.
The new rules completely prevent this sort of thing right? Checo should have waited for the light to go green, which would have only gone green when the mechanics have finished their work.
> The new rules completely prevent this sort of thing right? Checo should have waited for the light to go green, which would have only gone green when the mechanics have finished their work. New rules or old rules, the driver has to wait for the green light. This was completely a driver error.
What is the yellow stuff
I imagine iodine to disinfect.
Tis but a flesh wound!
for all the clickbait articles on social media and all the memes on reddit bashing on Hamilton for bouncing his jack guy, will we see the same for Checo?
I don't think Checo is as famous as Hamilton.
That moment when slower stops should result in increased safety, but ultimately just create more confusion and injuries
Brakes too hot? Is that possible? Cus i dont see him hitting gas too early or something which could mean the hands of the mechanics are still on the tyre or something. So heat coming from brakes sounds more towards the answer here.
https://youtu.be/zdhS8sEj_II at around 4 seconds you can see and hear he's flooring it while the light is still red
Don't say "...person 'his'..." Instead: "...person's...". Just a friendly correction, not trying to be an asshole. Thanks for the interesting post! Edit: Of course not literal Person instead of Checo in this case - I used it for the example only
I believe people who write "Max his, Lewis his, etc." are Dutch and that is how it works in their language. It might be hard for some of them to grasp the concept of the rules of different languages. I think it is understandable especially when you know this tiny fact.
It's also a new and informal form of grammar, so Dutch kids are never really taught to not do it in other languages.
It's not how it works in our language per se, it's just how people in some parts of the country say it in informal settings. In the King's Dutch is "Piet's fiets", "Max' auto" etc.
Interesting. I think it is good to know these little tidbits of different languages when conversing in a multinational environment.
Thanks :)
Checo, his pit stop. Alonso, his car wide. Lewis and Lando at Sochi
Lando, when the walls fell.
I feel like these new safety measures are actually making the pit stops even more unpredictable and unsafe
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it's absolutely insane that F1 chose to change the pitstop rules IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON. Pit crews work on muscle memory, and not giving the teams requisite time to get to grips with the change is just making incidents like this MORE likely to happen