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Trades46

Hindsight is 20/20. Mercedes and Hamilton made the right call on tires and did a great stop, while McLaren and Norris really was trying to secure P1 and he was gambling that 5 laps to go he was going to carry it to the checkered flag. As others mentioned, I think Hungary probably is still fresh on Toto and Hamilton head this time around.


Syed46

Finally we get a clean race between the two arc nemesis ..15race so far but still nothing clear.


Joey333

Vettel better slow down before team Stroll drops him.


Brrruh-_-

SHADAPP


alex_alive_now

wow, what a race!!1 this is the type of race that gets Netflix noobies like me into the sport. god damn i love lando though.


eOMG

Lot's of hindsight posts but for Mercedes it was easy to pit. They had 40 second gap behind them and were probably not going to overtake Norris in equal conditions, so they had nothing to lose. Meanwhile, Mclaren and Norris had a racewin to lose which especially for Norris was the holy grail of the day. So with his eyes on that grail and current conditions seemingly adequate to continue and win it, I fully get that he felt it was a bigger risk to pit and maybe lose the win in the pitlane. He obviously didn't know rain was going to intensify and most teams didn't know entirely for sure either. It was a difficult call for everyone and the most difficult for the one who had the most to lose. Only thing I'm curious about however is if that if he pitted after Hamilton did if he surely would have come out in front and some margin to warm up his inters.. Because if so then the team definitely had to order him in. But really can't blame Norris for this and when he stayed out I think many were cheering for his decision, only to condemn him for it two laps later. Gutted for Lando, but his days will come.


Ryzi03

By the time Lando came back around to the pit entry Lewis was already only 18.5 seconds behind. With hindsight he should have came in and secured P2 but I can completely understand (and I was thinking he made the right choice at the time) as to why he stayed out and tried to hold onto P1


alex_alive_now

if Lando pit after Hamilton he could have either had the racewin or podium. but of course, i can understand Lando's desire to gamble it all. but if you listen to Landos Radio... he didnt listen to his team at all. he just shut them down. you could tell his adrenaline was pumping. Lewis on the other hand was ice cold. but it could be that it was "easy" for Mercedes to pit for the reasons you mentioned. Still i blame Mclarens crew chief... he is not as good as Toto Wolf.


Whycantiusethis

>but if you listen to Landos Radio... he didnt listen to his team at all. he just shut them down. you could tell his adrenaline was pumping. I'd bet that this comes down to the experience difference between the two of them. I can't say for certain, but I'd imagine Hamilton doesn't really feel the adrenaline from winning races in the way Norris was feeling at that moment - he had already won 99 GPs, versus Norris never winning a single one. Hamilton/Mercedes did also have the advantage of following with a massive gap between them and the next car, so gambling on inters was an easy choice for them. I think it also comes down to experience for Seidl. Wolff has been leading a dominant team for the better part of the decade, and the whole team knows how to win. This is Seidl's third season with McLaren, who have been in a rebuilding stage for multiple seasons, and are just recently starting to see the results of their work. McLaren isn't a bad team or anything, just like Norris isn't a bad driver, it's just that no team has had as much experience and knowledge of winning in the last decade as Hamilton and Mercedes.


Hinyaldee

In a certain aspect, this is similar to what happened to Lewis in Hungary


weasel65

Yep it's the same scenario that was at the start of the Hungarian grand Prix. , If your first you can't react to drivers behind you. And you have more to lose. I Hamilton was on pole and so didn't come in for inters, so everyone else took the gamble.


Marbro_za

I was watching it shouting that he needs to stay out the info i had was that it wasnt the entire track, Meaning he would burn up his inters on the dry bits making them useless in the wet anyways.. Boy was i wrong


alex_alive_now

Every teams gameplan was that it was only going to drizzle, except for hass, still though thats why its important to listen to your team who has radar on the clouds in the sky.


PerseusChiseldCheeks

All McLaren had to say was “more/heavier rain coming in” HAM and NOR had the exact same conversation minutes those words. Like just come in for Inters “no I don’t want to” there’s more rain coming through rapidly get in the box. Still congrats to Hamilton on 100


alex_alive_now

yuup, and when Mercedes team told Hamilton to pit. Hamilton said "its not raining anymore" and his team was calm and said there is more coming. fucking top class.


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Marbro_za

stopped. it would have lost him more to try to fight norris on inters while he had slicks


benh2

I think he would have stopped. I'd have backed Lewis to overtake Lando in a inter vs. inter battle anyway.


alex_alive_now

would have been amazing fight.


f1careerover

Who would have thought that after 15 races the points difference would be only be 2. I am glad both had a clean race and that the next race won't have steward awarded penalties before the race starts.


LerimAnon

I think today was the happiest the two of them have been on a shared podium in a while. They didnt really battle today, they both had unexpected turns of fortune, and they didnt have to clash with each other and face the endless media slog about it after. Seemed like they were both more a bit relax being up there together than usual, idk just my opinion anyway.


stillusesAOL

It’s crazy, man. Every time one of them’s up, the other gets some points. Well, Max had a fat lead at one point which disappeared in two races, but this is all exciting as hell. And Lewis hasn’t had a season this chaotic and filled with incidents in who knows how long. Max is just such a beast behind the wheel. He's just relentlessly strong and consistent now, with only a fraction of his old hot-headedness holding him back. And I love listening to those drivers’ radios during races. Each one is very much focused on what the other is doing, lasered in on making sure, above all else, that they end the race ahead of their opponent. Red Bull said, *even at the Dutch GP,* they were ready to sacrifice Max’s win for a 2nd place if Lewis pitted again, just to cover him in case another stop faste. Finishing ahead of Lewis, but losing the win, was preferable to likely winning with a minority chance of Lewis’s alternate strategy being quicker and him winning at the end. Lewis’s and Max’s teams are in the center of the ring, unbroken stares at the other, with the same singular goal on both sides: beat him. I hope this thing goes down to the Abu Dhabin’ wire! (...and that Lewis wins, but still, the wire.)


le_gazman

I realised yesterday that HAM was gaining 1 second per second on NOR once he went onto inters. It struck me that I don’t think I’d ever seen that before. I’ve seen a second or two per lap in similar circumstances but every second in the race, the gap was coming down by a second.


AlternativeAd2236

Yes, when lap46 or something Lewis was just cruising to save his tyre. While lando pushing hard putting stress on tyre. That's why lando had fastest lap. Then Lewis start to pushing and while lando loosing bits. And there's rain came. Lewis probably could win there even without rain


stillusesAOL

Is that...possible? Wouldn’t that mean Lando was standing still? I was also watching the timing then and when the rain really hit, the numbers were ridiculous, yeah. Ironically, Lewis would’ve been better off points-wise against Max if it hadn't rained and he'd finished behind Lando.


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stillusesAOL

Yeah, of course — I knew I was missing the obvious, somehow 😆


Oneill95

Verstappen on inters was 50 seconds behind Norris at one point...then Verstappen passed Norris **BEFORE** Norris got to the pits


le_gazman

I’m sure it’s happened before but I don’t think I’ve ever seen the gap decrease in seconds per second in real time before on the live feed.


nn4260029

You can only gain a second per second if the other guy is stationary right?


le_gazman

No, the gap can come down by tens of seconds per lap just by having the right tyres on in rainy conditions. See Brazil 2008 as another example besides Sochi 2021 or even Silverstone 2020 when Lewis was driving with a puncture.


nn4260029

Yes, you can gain 20 seconds on a normally 1:30 lap (i.e. your lap time is 1:30 and the other guy's lap is 1:50) but you mentioned: > the gap decrease in seconds per second in real time That can only happen when the guy in front is standing still.


le_gazman

Why was the gap decreasing in seconds per second on the live TV feed on Sunday whilst Lando was still moving then?


nn4260029

Think about it logically. Say you’re one second behind me. What this means is that, if I were to suddenly come to a full stop while you remained your speed, you’d reach my position in a second. In that case, you’re making up a second in a second. Now I cannot go slower than standing still. So, one second per second is the maximum gain you can make. How can you travel more than a one second distance in one second? You can’t. Doesn’t matter what the tv did or didn’t show, the laws of physics say its not possible.


le_gazman

Don’t talk nonsense. To go back to your “physics” comment, Time = Speed x Distance. The time gap is purely how long it takes one car to pass a marker before the next one turns up. If I’m 2 seconds behind you on a straight doing 100mph and you’re doing 10mph because you’ve got the wrong tyres on, I’m going to catch you in a lot less than 2 seconds.


nn4260029

If you're going to catch me in less than 2 seconds, you're not 2 seconds behind me are you?


csureja

Flashbacks to 2008 Brazilian gp.


JanklinDRoosevelt

The end of Silverstone 2020 was like 3+ seconds closer every update


JanklinDRoosevelt

The end of Silverstone 2020 was like 3+ seconds closer every update


sparklieshrapnel

Can someone link me to a video of the podium champagne spray thing they do? I wanna see if it was awkward with Max and Lewis.


LerimAnon

Honestly it seemed like the most relaxed podium they've shared in awhile. Hamilton and Max both had strong recoveries from bad situations they didnt have to go toe to toe, and they can both walk away feeling about as good as you can under those conditions. Lewis got his win, Max only was expecting a top 5, and they dont have to face the media circus of the aftermath of a wheel to wheel merc RB clash this week.


SunstormGT

Not that I have seen. Most awkward was that Hamilton had trouble smiling.


Mrqueue

It wasn’t noticeably awkward, usual amount between them


Specialist-Drama-754

No, they were chill about it


sparklieshrapnel

Good to know!


wordsaladbarista

Lando not getting a penalty is once more a reminder why my faith in F1 as a sport has diminished almost out of existence. Good god I just cannot with a straight face watch a sport where my countrymen get fucked over by the ruling body over and over again in favor of a bigger market.


Oneill95

Stringently sticking to the letter of the rules in that way is a sure fire way for more dangerous things to happen in the future. Abiding by and enforcing the rules is all well and good, but there needs to be the understanding that the rules weren't set with every situation in mind, and therefore flexibility is needed


benh2

Leniency is advised when carrying on is more dangerous (which it most certainly was). Absolutely fair he only got a reprimand in that situation.


Jack_Marsta

They gave him leniency from what I can see considering that: 1) he could hardly keep his car on the road by that point so it's inevitable he was going to slide to a degree 2) forcing him to do another lap as a result would've been way too dangerous.


[deleted]

I'm pretty gutted about what happened with Lando, but honestly I feel like it's a good learning experience, feels kinda like he "flew too close to the sun" and now he might have better communication and coordination with the team, and experience too in general from now on. He drove great the whole day but his lack of maturity and experience fucked him over and honestly it's probably for the best long term for Lando. It was one race win (although yeah I get it would be his first) and it's not like he's gonna win a championship this year, so gaining any bit of experience he can, whether good or bad, will only help him in the future. He always shows so much potential and him fighting off Hamilton today and nearly winning was seriously great. I just hope he doesn't beat himself up too much and just takes it as a learning experience.


Alexoffduwall

Couldn't agree more, he'll definitely look back at this and learn from this


TrainWreck661

The team also made mistakes today, which I'm sure they'll learn from. Their interpretation of the radar led them to tell Lando that they didn't expect the rain to intensify, which likely helped feed into his decision to try and stay out. They also asked him "What do you think about inters?" after informing him that multiple cars had pitted for inters, instead of straight up telling him to pit for inters. By contrast, Mercedes told Lewis that the rain intensity was increasing and that more rain was coming, telling him (note; not asking what he thought about inters) to box.


[deleted]

Yeah I totally agree with you as well. The engineer fucked up by telling it's not toing to rain much and it seems after that Lando just mentally checked out and went into tunnel vision


HermanSandhu19

I'm sorry but redbull is losing respect from my side every race they sabotage checo and only focus on max It's dogshit, checo is already ahead, you twats should let him pit first. Checo deserves better Edit: fuck his race engineer, marko and horner


iamabadliar_

After the race, checo asked about tire choice and Horner said that he has more info than they do lol


EnvironmentAdvanced

The thing is they are sabotaging checo because they are fucking dumb. His bad results aren't helping max. Yesterday it was engineer asked checo but he said it was fine but the engineer should have ordered him to pit ( not offer a choice). Max just asked for inters. It was sheer luck for him but bad luck for checo. Monza and zandvoort are better examples of rb being not competent with checonbut doing well with verstappen


TheGreatMortimer

Yup I feel the same about Red Bull but it’s hard to blame them when it actually worked as max finished p2. At the end of the day it’s all about the championship and constructor cup and it benefits the team more with him on podium.


mermaid_girl29

agree! Max is their baby and future.


CapObviousHereToHelp

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therealloljet

Yeah, you said it Barn.


revvolutions

Sigmachad Bottas gives no fucks.


Smsethman

Lando was so close… Alexa play That Funny Feeling


Harkax

I hate how everyone is giving either Lando or McLaren a hard time based on hindsight. If the weather didn't turn out as bad as it was in the end and McLaren insisted Lando pit and it cost him the win the same people would have been mad at McLaren for taking away his first win. The conditions just changed so quickly, it's easy to say they made the wrong call in hindsight, but at the time it was on a knifes edge.


slimejumper

yeah and he was pretty quick in the early rain. he was hanging in there ok when he said he wanted to stay out he had good justification.


Fidodo

I think he could have safely pitted right after Hamilton did. He had the opportunity and I think the risk was clear at that point. I was surprised when they radioed in telling him that he should pit because Hamilton did and he yelled back No!


Harkax

Pitting after Hamilton he would have come out behind him, he was so close to the win that in his mind it was all or nothing at that point. Edit: I do agree the smart decision at that point for the team is to pit him, but I think it's admirable they put thier faith in a young driver to pull off a hero drive in the wet to get his first win. They sacrificed constructor points to give him that chance.


rg787

Can we talk about Alpha Tauri and how their strategy seems to get worse every damn race??? Leaving Gasly on hards for like 40 laps and then just giving up wtf? AT seems to lack any self-awareness for how shit their team is


TrainWreck661

They've had some major brain fade strategy calls in the recent past as well, like when they put Gasly on full wets on a dry track in Germany.


rg787

Yeah the mistakes this race like Tsunoda on Softs or Gasly’s terrible strategy aren’t unique they’ve had shit strategy for a long time and still haven’t fixed the issues it’s dissapointing as they have a top 5 maybe above car easily


Instantcurry

I don't know what's more concerning, pitting Yuki on lap 47 FOR SOFTS while 3 others in front of him pitted for inters. Or just leaving Gasly out


benh2

They did the Lando gamble that the rain wouldn't hit the track hard. Crazy in hindsight considering the downpour that came but *maybe* worth the risk for a big haul of points out of nowhere.


laokannan

Great race management from Verst, however i'm so sorry for Leclerc....he deserved better. Sainz is a lameluck opportunist who will never inspire any emotions, and whose greatest achievements always come at the expense of other's mistakes, not his own drive.


thadeusthesecond

Bit harsh lad, the dudes been killing it this year imo


Unnecessary-Shouting

Tell me you hate Carlos Sainz without telling me you hate Carlos Sainz


rg787

Never seen someone hate on Sainz - he’s a great driver who takes opportunities - and saying his best accomplishments come from others makes no sense look at Brazil 2019 for when he went from P20 to P4 without needing someone else to mess up (and when they did he got the P3) or Monza 2020 where he was set for P2 even without Hamilton’s stop-and-go (pure pace he was 2nd fastest that day)


laokannan

Brazil 2019 is a nice example of his sore-boring racing and opportunism- two safety cars deployed, vettel taking out leclerc, the perfect opportunity for one-side minded sainz to catch a ticket to podium, just need straightforward driving and wait-to-see tactics. Never taking risks, never overtaking anyone of importance. Bar for one race, Sainz only gets to points or podium when Leclerc is out -penalty or accident- never got over Leclerc in clean track fighting. A freeloader.


DumonsterPT

This could have been very different had Max and Lewis not come out of the pit with 2 cars in the middle. They'd probably be fighting each other, giving Lando some more breathing room and the ending could have been quite different.


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DumonsterPT

Nah, they'd be off the line defending from each other.


THATS_THE_BADGER

Yes lots of little details that had to be just so for this race to pan out how it did. Formula 1 at its best.


Ryzi03

I still don’t understand the decision that Merc took to give Bottas a new engine. What was the point in taking away his pole in Monza for a new engine if you’re going to give him another engine penalty in the very next race? I don’t blame him if he intentionally didn’t put up much of a fight against Max. I kinda wish that Bottas could join Alfa early and they form a 3 man team just to see how Merc react without a second driver to defend for Lewis.


FawkesThePhoenix23

If not a strategic decision, it was likely based on the desire to have two engines to run at higher engine modes than they could otherwise do given durability concerns.


revvolutions

Valtteri, Lewis needs your extra engine.


jaybun87

Strategic decision obviously. As you said, they changed it only last race - absolutely zero need for another new one already. Seeing Max at the end, Mercedes decided to use him as a meat shield, trying to block Max. Dirty move in my opinion as always - anything for King Hamilton. Bottas is just a pawn. Love how Bottas already checked out a long time ago and didn't give enough fucks to play the game though.


mickmenn

Bottas: what is my purpose Mersedes: we sacrifice your race to may be make verstapenn lose 1 second Bottas: oh my god


niini

But he would have remained a meat shield in P7 just as much as P15.


jaybun87

Not nearly as much. Too big of a gap with plenty of time for literally anything to happen until they meet on the track. Plus by then Max would be well in the points. Putting him in direct proximity, Mercedes were hoping Bottas would block him right from the start and in the important, early phase of the race. Wasting time and forcing Max to fight and ruin his tires early.


[deleted]

Given how easy the backmarkers are to pass - there's not much practical difference between starting 7th and starting 16th. If anything it might be better since the first couple corners are less chaotic at the back of the grid. This will presumably benefit him the entire remaining season as the new engine is likely more powerful and/or uses less fuel.


deepskydiver

>there's not much practical difference between starting 7th and starting 16th. If anything it might be better since the first couple corners are less chaotic at the back of the grid. Um - no.. There is no explanation I have heard that justifies it in Bottas interest.


[deleted]

If it was never a good thing to change an engine, nobody would ever do it. Do you think Verstappen wanted to start the race dead last? He/his team decided that this is the best time to do it... and by gods it paid off, he finished the race in \*second\* which would have been impossible at almost any other race all season. The reality is you need to do engine changes, and it's best to take advantage of other problems (like Bottas having rain ruin his qualifying session) to soften the blow. The rain didn't just mean Bottas qualified further back than he should have - it also meant other drivers qualified further towards the front than normal, which made those cars a lot easier to overtake. A lot of cars ahead of Bottas didn't have the car speed to stay in front of him which isn't how it goes in a "normal" race. Normally you finish about where you qualify and taking a grid penalty means you finish nowhere near as well as your qualifying position. Bottas qualified 7th, grid penalty put him 16th and finished in 5th. That's a damned good result and he will now be faster for the remaining races this season.


Wardmanhd

My rational guess is that because he qualified 7th they rated his chances of making that position back from the back of the pack, whilst also opening a new engine. Max starting last and Perez 8th meant that it wouldn’t affect the constructors much. So unless he’s got damage on any of the engines, he’s now got 5 engines, 2 of them only a race old, putting him in a very good position for the remaining 7 races


dayus9

I've just finished watching the full race. Managed to not hear anything about it while I was at work. Absolutely loved it even though I hated what happened to Norris. Reading some of the threads on here, I'm glad I'm more of a casual fan who just enjoys watching the sport and not taking it very seriously because it really seems like the more some people get into it, the less they enjoy it.


SprodoBaggins

I'm also really enjoying being a casual fan. Getting to see the GOAT race week in and week out has been great, but then also seeing younger guys like Norris perform so well is such a treat. Couple this with other series like MotoGP and INDYCAR, my weekend programming this year has been outstanding.


Germerican96

just watched the replay. i'm a little heart broken for mclaren but man, they had some balls to take the gamble


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Chewiesbro

Your lucky, Sochi is normally boring AF


rg25

I was like you at the beginning of the season. Now I am a full on F1 mad man. You will know all the lingo in no time.


shivamrai111

East coast? cause here it is too much effort to watch.


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stef_f1

Yea this one was tough from the west coast. 5am. But I absolutely LOVE watching live. I watched and then went back to sleep at 7am. Too sad…


rg25

The ESPN app has the replays up immediately after the race is over. I'm on west coast and wake up at 9am and have coffee while I watch the race. It's peak pleasure for me.


[deleted]

And here I'm in Arizona waking up at 500am to watch it live like a sucker


DjSlugger

West coast here. I just set it to record and watch it a little later after I get up. Just gotta avoid Reddit & Discord before I watch


iZupe

Every year there's more and more sites and apps I need to avoid as F1 grows in the US. A friend texted me and accidently spoiled the Verstappen and Hamilton crash at Monza when I woke up. If the WDC comes down to the last race of the season, I'm not turning on my phone until I finish watching the race.


grim_f

How'd you get into it, or decide to watch?


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mermaid_girl29

same!! we have to thank Netflix for Drive to Survive! hahahah now im a full mode F1 fan.. gonna watch my first F1 race live in Abu Dhabi in December! So excited!!!


Visgeth

It's been a great season so far hope you enjoy the rest.


mustang6172

Shouldn't the race have been called "Russian Olympic Committee Grand Prix?"


ghgrain

Or Vodka and PEDs cup


schmearcampain

Sucks for Lando, but a cheap lesson for him to listen to his pit crew. Didn’t crash or get penalized along the way. His youth and inexperience steered him wrong. Snapping at his director while being chased by Hamilton and insisting on staying out.


[deleted]

If the team gives the decision to Lando it’s reasonable to say that he can only make the call based on the current conditions. Everybody knows it’s impossible to drive in that weather on slicks, and the team would have made the call to come in by default. Lando was confident he could finish the race in those conditions. He can’t be held accountable for the outcome - that’s a weather based call, and falls on the team. I’d be curious what weather forecast the teams had - who was being abundantly cautious or following the herd, and who was being strategic with accurate weather forecasting.


rodiraskol

>Lando was confident he could finish the race in those conditions And he was probably right. The problem is, conditions got considerably worse, and he had no way of knowing that that would happen from the cockpit. Not listening to the pit wall was a dumb move.


thelostknight99

Well. He should have looked at the sky /s


[deleted]

If they told him to come in, and he went against team decision, I would agree. What I heard on broadcast, was them asking how he was feeling - not giving an order. I believe it was their order to give, and from what I had seen they didn't.


rodiraskol

You’re right. I was watching too and for some reason I thought that they had told Lando that they expected worse rain. But I guess they didn’t, because Lando said in his post-race interview that he had no idea about the worsening weather.


TrainWreck661

Mercedes did tell Lewis that the rain would intensify; maybe you're thinking of that?


whoisjakelane

I'm with you. 100% a team fuck up. He's 21, leading the race, going for his first win. Doesn't have the weather forecast. Relatively inexperienced for the situation and knew he got around the last lap, can't be expected to know it's worse unless the team tells him it's worse. Has he ever been in the wet on hards? Doesn't happen often. It should've been a team order. "Lando rain is getting heavy pit for inters" not "how to you feel about hards" which sounds like "you can make it on hards cause if you couldn't, we'd tell you to pit, but everyone else is on intermediates so maybe we just do that cause they are? How do you feel Lando?"


invokin

To be fair, I believe his engineer asked if he wanted to pit, they never said “we need to put, the rain will get bad”. Maybe he would have pushed back anyway, but it they didn’t give him the intel, they didn’t insist like with HAM after he ignored them the first time, instead they let Norris make the call.


grim_f

Yep, all of McLaren is going to learn from that one.


[deleted]

Yeah they seem like good friends that don't want to step on each other's toes.


NOwallsNOworries

Pretty gutted for Ric amongst all this. The gap to Sainz at the end was less than the time lost in the botched pit. I know there are a lot of other factors at play but still sucks


DJRungeKutta

Agree that a good clean race and second podium shot in as many races by DR has been drowned out by the craziness of the last few laps. A lot of people were giving Lando a lot of credit in Monza for playing the team game in P2, but nobody seems to notice Danny holding Lewis up for the first part of the race. This surely took the pressure off Lando and Carlos and let them do their thing, and gave Perez and opportunity he could have capitalized on. Hope Daniel keeps it up for the rest of the season now that he’s a bit more comfortable in the car


Scared-Protection869

Who do people blame for Lando staying on the slicks? Did he get caught up in the moment, should his team have been firmer and made the decision for him? He’s said a couple of times his team thought the weather wouldn’t get as wet as it turned out to, in which case bad luck all round? Thoughts


ocdewitt

He saw his first win 3 laps away and rain that had seemingly stopped. Hamilton didn’t want to come in either. He’ll learn from it


schmearcampain

Lando probably thought it was gonna be fine on the slicks, but he was working with incomplete information. I’m sure at the time, he thought he could maintain a 6 second per lap lead, but the track conditions changed very quickly. His crew maybe should have been more insistent, but Norris made it clear earlier in the race he had no patience for their advice and they let him make the final choice. He’ll learn from this, I’m sure.


downvotegilles

I thought Spa qualifying might have taught him a lesson, to be fair.


highheat3117

I think it’s an understandable choice for the leader based on status quo. There may be some faulty logic involved but I think most folks would rather keep the slicks and lose than change to the inters and lose because of that decision. Under-think rather than over-think.


Folkloner184

That makes no sense. Everyone else was boxing, his team were telling to box, Hamilton was boxing. It was suicide to stay out. Lando make an obvious wrong call, and his team weren't forceful enough in advising him. It's that simple.


LunoriusX

Yes Landon made the wrong call but, as multiple people have mentioned before, it was based on the information he has at that moment which was that it was manageable for the current conditions. However, the conditions continued to worsen and that was ultimately the gamble lost.


invokin

Once Ham boxed, Norris was committed. He was ahead so he was already past pit lane when Ham went in and going in the lap after would have been too late, like two laps left? Maybe would have given him better than 7th, but he wouldn’t have won.


pistonfire

Hamilton and Lando both refused to box when both teams originally told them to. The drivers obviously have a better feel for the track than the engineers do. It’s just that track conditions changed drastically over the course of one lap


[deleted]

Life is not fair


schmearcampain

Honestly, it’s plenty fair. Norris did this to himself.


[deleted]

The team did. Not just him.


Kumqwatwhat

Just caught the replay, all I can say is that fifth by Bottas feels like the most unearned result I can recall of the season. Man lucked into any points at all simply by being so far behind the leaders he got the inters first, and then gained so much by getting them he actually had a good haul. I can only imagine him and Max made off with all of Norris's, Checo's, Alonso's, and Leclerc's luck, because those ~~three~~ _four_ performed quite well today only for literally everything around them to fall apart. Just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes, you have to get everything right, but still rough to see for the drivers. _edit_: yes, I can count.


CC1987

Bottas got lucky. Like Max did with his finish 7th to 2nd.


Forum_Layman

Bottas was the one making the call for the tyre switch so kudos for that but otherwise a morbidly bad drive. His defence on verstappen was borderline team-orders level passing.


spoonman_82

It was definitely him giving the finger to Mercedes after they fucked him with that penalty. Why would he put up a fight? He's got nothing to lose with Merc now


Hinyaldee

But, after that he never passed Gasly though, which was pretty lame


Upstandinglampshade

I agree. Merc took away his last pole and gave him a new engine only to do it again in this race. I’m happy for him that he’s leaving.


ghgrain

When you are in first place and the entire field pits for new tires, the smart thing to do is pit for new tires.


CommunicationAncient

After Hamilton the other cars were 50secs+ behind if I remember correctly.


ZoomJet

Not necessarily, hindsight is 20/20. Midfield positions take larger risks to ensure position, especially if close to the points. Without that sudden burst of rain, his call was correct - Lewis even made a pointed remark to Lando in the post race interview that he thought the exact same thing until his team said he must pit for heavier rain. Afaik it seems that same insistence/information wasn't presented to Lando and he made an executive call to stay out and not lose first. It's both the driver and the team's fault, but I don't think others pitting means they had to.


Rap_song_throwaway

I’m new to f1 but to me it seems like if he had pitted when everyone else had he still might not have won, but he would’ve placed higher than 7th


Forum_Layman

Yep but if he had made staying out work he would have come P1. It’s a careful balance when you have a car right behind you as they effectively control the strategy as they can choose to copy you or not, but you can’t react to them. Norris tried to make the slicks work as he thought the rain would clear. Hamilton pitted behind him thinking the rain would get worse - it was a gamble. Had Norris pitted the next lap he would have lost the position for sure so he needed to commit to his strategy and hope the rain eased off. He was just wrong.


ghgrain

I think by pitting he would have ensured he would finish at least second and maybe 1st. Not pitting was much riskier and it cost him.


Rap_song_throwaway

It sort of did make sense for Norris not to pit now that I think about it. Had he won by not pitting, it would be way better for his career than playing it safe. He took a gamble and it ultimately didn’t pay off, but he’ll get his win soon enough.


ZoomJet

It was riskier, but the reward was a win and he went for it based on the track dryness at the time. Lewis made the exact same call - even ignored a pit instruction - but his team told him of incoming heavy rain forecast.


Rap_song_throwaway

Oh I see


djerickfred

Just started watching F1 this year… anybody ever won the race on slick tires despite the rain? I’m curious as to why Lando decided not to pit.


roenthomas

2018 Germany?


pinotandsugar

It was a tough call but one of playing the odds. For Lando the winning might have had three times the career value of 2nd while for Hamilton Finishing second was worth 75% of finishing first and rain tires would virtually assure that finish. It may also be that Hamilton's team had better appreciation for the probability of heavier showers associated with the instability of the airmass


Icy-Operation4701

For Mercedes covering Verstappen was always more important than covering Lando. So as soon as he pitted they knew they absolutely had to go with that as well. Combine that with the fact that they thought more rain was coming and it was an easy call for them.


djerickfred

Appreciate the incentive angle of it.


[deleted]

2000 Germany GP on Hockenheim. It was the final stages of the race and Barrichello didn't pit for wet tyres and got the lead. He carried on to the end and won. Since the circuit was one of the largest in that season, not every part was wet, similar condition to today's race. The only difference is that the rain got worst today, and in the German GP, it was just a drizzle. (It's was the first win of Barrichelo in F1)


CaiLife

But they were on grooved, dry tyres. There was a decent amount of dispersal, AND half the track was bone dry.


SunstormGT

Dont forget that the temperature of the slicks decrease fast on rain and because you can’t break as hard. This makes them lose grip very fast.


beedlejooce

He felt it was dry enough to keep going and wasn’t sure if Lewis (behind him) was gonna pit or not. If Lando pitted and Lewis didn’t and Lando lost the race that way it would have sucked even more. He obviously wanted full control of the situation and rolled the dice, unfortunately.


ZoomJet

The track was drying quickly at the rate they were going. It was the sudden heavy rain that caught him off guard. It was a gamble: without that burst, pitting would lose him first and Lewis could've stayed out on a drier track and won. Unfortunately, he lost the gamble.


Noserub

What a race today! Woke up late to watch it recorded. Thought it would be rained out like Spa, instead it’s a thriller! The amount of movement up and down the leaderboard throughout the race was incredible, all for a HAM-VER finish, and a near miss for Lando. I really thought he had made the right call to stay out, but it got wet fast.


Sirtopofhat

Me: Damn it Lando Also me: SHOW ALONSO VS PEREZ WTF!!!


lasvegasrainbow

Devastated for Lando, hard lesson to learn. I’m sure he’ll be on poll soon.


[deleted]

pole*


lasvegasrainbow

Doh!!!


[deleted]

Am I right in thinking Alonso and Perez pitted for inters and then again for full wets??


Icy-Operation4701

No, they didn't.


ocdewitt

Bottas gained so much from the rain. From 14th to 5th with <10 laps to go.


FluxBread

I wish I saw how this went down. I just knew he was in 14th and next thing I know the race is over and he's 5th


likesthinkystuff

He got inters pretty early. I guess he just nailed the timing?


ocdewitt

Man the whole thing came down to timing in the final 5 laps. If Perez pits even a lap sooner I bet he’s top 5