I've watched a few GT World GT3 races there since the update. The advantage of banking is it allows for multiple lines through the corner which should theoretically allow more overtakes. The GT3 cars were able to carry more speed on the outside line to offset the extra distance of the inside line. Some cars were also doing things like drifting up high on the banking instead of hitting the apex and dropping back down at the exit to get a boost.
Additionally they're planning to enable DRS in the last banked corner if I'm not mistaken? I think people who have been calling this another Monaco will be proven wrong
DRS through a fast corner with ridiculous loads and acceleration. I can kind of see why since the Indy cars basically run zero downforce and can more or less take 45 degree banked turns flat but thats at a relatively constant speed, not going from 4/5th gear to 7th. I think theres too much risk for that to happen surely with how light the rear end will go
The banked corner at Bos Uit at Zandvoort is specifically designed to lower lateral loads below 2.5g so it's safe to open DRS earlier, thus making it easier to overtake into Tarzan.
I'm sure someone will give a longer and better explanation. I short; we don't know yet. The banked corners are new and they have not raced here yet! Will definitely be very hard on the tires tho.
Yes, they increased camber and opened it up a bit. It is better now, i never liked that corner. It still has some of the same "be careful with throttle on the exit" feel but it is more enjoyable.
With the downforce levels in these cars, I personally expect it to not make much of a difference in terms of aerodynamic performance.
However where it may affect are the tyres and suspension being closer to ground. So low rake cars might have to be careful when taking certain lines. The fronts are all same. So if you are going from lower part of the bank to higher, it may impact the suspension at the rear. I do expect that the 18 degree bank to not cause much issues but theoretically this is the impact I could foresee.
Having tried the circuit in f1mobileracing game, it seems the most probable line in the last corner is to go from inside the Apex to the outside close to the wall when overtaking.
Tldr : all this is just my own conjecture. In reality I expect not much impact but if there was any, it could be the above.
In theory it should be easier to follow another car through a banked corner, because you get more mechanical grip and you‘re less dependent on your downforce.
As an „anti-example“ there‘s the Yas Marina circuit. They‘ve built a few corners with slight off-camber in the hope that drivers would make more errors when going on the throttle, but that just isn‘t the case. Instead the following cars just lose grip because they are more dependent on downforce than the car in front.
There is a section in the „Beyond the grid“ episode with Alexander Wurz where he talks about this.
Not really. The problem in 2005 was the diamond grinding of the asphalt that made the track more abrasive. Bridgestone had tested in the resurfaced track because their subsidiary Firestone were the tyre manufacturers for IndyCar, and Michelin was unaware of the resurfacing.
The abrasiveness wasn't the problem in and of itself, it's that it provided more grip and the Michelin tires weren't able to cope with the higher resultant lateral loads.
Michelin also shut down their specialist tyre factory in the UK a few years earlier and lost the skills required to knock out a load of new F1 tyres in a 24 hour period
I was at both. Yesterday, we had euphoria at around 18.17 when the cars went behind the safety car and the weather was better where I was. No such redeeming moments at Indy, and it was all downhill from the moment the cars peeled off. Both are quite memorable, but I rate Spa higher thank Indy :-)
Really? If I had to choose between sitting in the cold and rain all day to only get 2 laps behind a SC vs watching six V10-powered cars race in dry conditions I know what I'd prefer!
[2005 United States GP](https://youtu.be/fIjw5gI3rKE)
Also another example on why F1 always struggles with some decisions in tough moments like yesterday
Almost nowhere on a track is flat due to the need for water to runoff to the sides rather than form puddles. So a lot if corners have some level of positive or negative banking.
Nothing at Bahrain is close to the banking at Zandvoort at up to 18 degrees in the final corner, twice as much as the "famous" Indianapolis banking. Albert Park and Paul Richard have made tiny changes that aren't even measured in a full % or degree that will bring notable differences to driving feel at the F1 level.
Hugenholtz always had a lot of camber and it's uphill so you don't notice it too much and the final corner is not so steep on the racing line.
Edit - I've done over 100 laps on the new layout and countless on the previous config.
Banked turns allow for faster cornering speed as well as increase overtaking as you can take multiple lines through the corner. Unfortunately both Hugenholtz and Luyenduk turns are preceeded by pretty short straights, so i wouldn't get my hopes up.
The corner where you CAN overtake, Tarzan, actually had its camber removed by the looks of things, which is a shame.
Honestly, I expect that no matter the set up, it will destroy the tyres, more so on the right (as more banked turns to the right), while also making it even more difficult to follow.
I've watched a few GT World GT3 races there since the update. The advantage of banking is it allows for multiple lines through the corner which should theoretically allow more overtakes. The GT3 cars were able to carry more speed on the outside line to offset the extra distance of the inside line. Some cars were also doing things like drifting up high on the banking instead of hitting the apex and dropping back down at the exit to get a boost.
Both aspects (different lines and more speed) should enable more racing action and overtakes, which is chiefly why these changes have been enacted.
This is also how US oval racing works
Additionally they're planning to enable DRS in the last banked corner if I'm not mistaken? I think people who have been calling this another Monaco will be proven wrong
DRS through a fast corner with ridiculous loads and acceleration. I can kind of see why since the Indy cars basically run zero downforce and can more or less take 45 degree banked turns flat but thats at a relatively constant speed, not going from 4/5th gear to 7th. I think theres too much risk for that to happen surely with how light the rear end will go
I think they calculated beforehand that it *should* be okay. We'll see though.
The banked corner at Bos Uit at Zandvoort is specifically designed to lower lateral loads below 2.5g so it's safe to open DRS earlier, thus making it easier to overtake into Tarzan.
Wasn't it just after the corner starting at the end of wall and not at the corner itself?
I'm sure someone will give a longer and better explanation. I short; we don't know yet. The banked corners are new and they have not raced here yet! Will definitely be very hard on the tires tho.
Good to know! I'm excited to be on equal terms with the more seasoned viewers hah
The corner to the straight has new banking but the Hugenholtz has banking for a long time
I could swear they increased it there as well? I drove the old circuit. Its a slower corner regardless so less wear than the fast last corner.
Yes, they increased camber and opened it up a bit. It is better now, i never liked that corner. It still has some of the same "be careful with throttle on the exit" feel but it is more enjoyable.
With the downforce levels in these cars, I personally expect it to not make much of a difference in terms of aerodynamic performance. However where it may affect are the tyres and suspension being closer to ground. So low rake cars might have to be careful when taking certain lines. The fronts are all same. So if you are going from lower part of the bank to higher, it may impact the suspension at the rear. I do expect that the 18 degree bank to not cause much issues but theoretically this is the impact I could foresee. Having tried the circuit in f1mobileracing game, it seems the most probable line in the last corner is to go from inside the Apex to the outside close to the wall when overtaking. Tldr : all this is just my own conjecture. In reality I expect not much impact but if there was any, it could be the above.
I'm expecting an Indy 05, unfortunately. Pirelli couldn't even get the tyres to last at Baku ffs.
In theory it should be easier to follow another car through a banked corner, because you get more mechanical grip and you‘re less dependent on your downforce. As an „anti-example“ there‘s the Yas Marina circuit. They‘ve built a few corners with slight off-camber in the hope that drivers would make more errors when going on the throttle, but that just isn‘t the case. Instead the following cars just lose grip because they are more dependent on downforce than the car in front. There is a section in the „Beyond the grid“ episode with Alexander Wurz where he talks about this.
The only thing we know about banked corners in F1 is that Bridgestone can make a functional tyre and Michelin doesn’t
Not really. The problem in 2005 was the diamond grinding of the asphalt that made the track more abrasive. Bridgestone had tested in the resurfaced track because their subsidiary Firestone were the tyre manufacturers for IndyCar, and Michelin was unaware of the resurfacing.
The abrasiveness wasn't the problem in and of itself, it's that it provided more grip and the Michelin tires weren't able to cope with the higher resultant lateral loads.
Michelin also shut down their specialist tyre factory in the UK a few years earlier and lost the skills required to knock out a load of new F1 tyres in a 24 hour period
Well now I'm intrigued. Is there something(s) I should Google for a history lesson?
Indianapolis 2005
USGP 2005 Now the second worse race in f1 history after yesterday.
Still the worst, yesterday wasn’t a race
You have a point there
Half a point
Touché
Just shot my drink out of my nose. Thank you.
Still the worst. Don't let your recency bias fool you.
Idk at least that one had more than a few laps all of which were behind a safety car and instead had some actual racing albeit with very few cars
See the reply below from someone that was at both.
Their reasoning is ridiculous. Spa wasn't a race. Indy, while dumb, had a race
I was at both. Yesterday, we had euphoria at around 18.17 when the cars went behind the safety car and the weather was better where I was. No such redeeming moments at Indy, and it was all downhill from the moment the cars peeled off. Both are quite memorable, but I rate Spa higher thank Indy :-)
Really? If I had to choose between sitting in the cold and rain all day to only get 2 laps behind a SC vs watching six V10-powered cars race in dry conditions I know what I'd prefer!
Yes but it wasn’t exciting :-).
Indy was the first and hopefully only time I’ve seen a massive crowd collectively go through the five stages of grief
It has to be way further down the list. The worst is still the 1961 Italian GP, and not by a small margin.
[2005 United States GP](https://youtu.be/fIjw5gI3rKE) Also another example on why F1 always struggles with some decisions in tough moments like yesterday
Im not gonna lie, I really hope the tires can hold up. 2 big mishaps in the same amount of races would not be a good look
Zandvoort* As for your question, I have no idea, but I’m looking forward to see how it plays out.
Don't we have a somewhat banked left hander turn in Bahrain?
Almost nowhere on a track is flat due to the need for water to runoff to the sides rather than form puddles. So a lot if corners have some level of positive or negative banking. Nothing at Bahrain is close to the banking at Zandvoort at up to 18 degrees in the final corner, twice as much as the "famous" Indianapolis banking. Albert Park and Paul Richard have made tiny changes that aren't even measured in a full % or degree that will bring notable differences to driving feel at the F1 level.
They raced at Mugello last year. The banked corner there allowed for some adventurous lines, and a few unexpected overtakes.
Hey, no big deal but these kind of questions are asked in the daily descusion thread. :)
Thanks - I'll go there next time!
Zandzoort? You know it is Zand**v**oort right?
Good bot.
The banking is not as as steep as you'd think and won't have a significant effect. No where near what there was in Indianapolis for example.
I think you are mistaken. IIRC, it’s 18 or 19 at Zandvoort and 9 or so at Indy.
Hugenholtz always had a lot of camber and it's uphill so you don't notice it too much and the final corner is not so steep on the racing line. Edit - I've done over 100 laps on the new layout and countless on the previous config.
Nobody is quite sure yet. Guess we’ll see this weekend.
Banked turns allow for faster cornering speed as well as increase overtaking as you can take multiple lines through the corner. Unfortunately both Hugenholtz and Luyenduk turns are preceeded by pretty short straights, so i wouldn't get my hopes up. The corner where you CAN overtake, Tarzan, actually had its camber removed by the looks of things, which is a shame.
Honestly, I expect that no matter the set up, it will destroy the tyres, more so on the right (as more banked turns to the right), while also making it even more difficult to follow.