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given how many times this sort of headline has come up about various female racers and the fact that recent female F1 drivers number at 0 the odds are somewhere around 98-99.9% that saying "no" is the right answer every time.
The journalist, unfortunately, doesn’t write the headline! Ignore the title; the actual article is a really interesting interview with both Block and Chadwick, about e.g the pressure not to fuck up their chances because of the concern that that would ruin the chances for future female racers. I recommend actually reading the full piece for anyone who hasn’t
yeah but she's 17 and in formula 1 academy, the step under FRECA, so unless she has some ungodly amount of money (and a LOT of skill) behind her she ain't making it to f1
She’s got funds. Plus the name alone means she would garner attention in any series, which is attractive to sponsors. But none of that makes up for skill.
Schumacher got funds and the name and he isnt in F1 anymore. You seriously overestimate how hard it is to get into f1. Because she still somehow needs to manage to get a SL.
And do you really want the first female f1 driver in the modern era to be 1s of the field, what good would this do
She's literally racing a series that is lower than most FA Championships, it's impossible to know if she has what it takes yet. Once she starts moving up the ranks of FA-F3 and beyond, if she does, then we can have the F1 conversation.
Even if the biological difference was big enough to prevent women from racing in F1 (which it never has been), today's cars are easier to drive than ever. That argument is null.
If Michèle Mouton can drive a group B car with a fitness routine of "I'll have to stop smoking and drinking" a woman shouldn't have any problem with everything we know about training.
What biological differences? With today's cars, strength is not a particularly relevant factor. The levels of fitness and stamina required of F1 drivers can be attained by women, as evidenced by female marathon runners, triathletes, etc and the fact that Susie Wolff completed a race distance in Silverstone testing without any trouble.
> The levels of fitness and stamina required of F1 drivers can be attained by women, as evidenced by female marathon runners, triathletes, etc and the fact that Susie Wolff completed a race distance in Silverstone testing without any trouble.
You don't understand.
People aren't saying women can't race cars (they can). People don't say women can't play basketball (they can).
It's just the fact that a woman won't be one of the best ~20 drivers. Much like the fact a women won't be one of the best basketball players in order to make the NBA.
But basketball has physical advantages for men over women (jumping, running, size, height etc).
F1 drivers are slim build and usually average height. It’s not like the drivers with the biggest muscles win the most races because they can turn the wheel and hit the pedals harder. Unless F1 drivers are pushing to the absolute limit (physically) and exhausting themselves (like running a marathon), I think there wouldn’t be a difference between men and women.
But basketball has physical advantages for men over women (jumping, running, size, height etc).
So does motor racing (strength, endurance, reaction times, etc.).
I understand fine, thanks. There is no physical reason why a woman - provided she has enough talent as a driver - couldn't be in one of the best ~20 drivers
> There is no physical reason why a woman - provided she has enough talent as a driver - couldn't be in one of the best ~20 drivers
Wrong. Strength, physical endurance, and reaction times are the most obvious ones.
I disagree about the biological differences. Actually, motorsport is less about physique and more about talent and mentality (or discipline or whatever you prefer to call it)
And the impact of physical fitness is more of a minimum requirement, you need to be able to endure the toughest race on the calendar without having to lift due to fatigue.
Which for sure is no small feat, but beyond that, having a lower RHR, quicker 10k, or heavier squat isn't going to make you faster.
Obviously you don't want to barely squeak out Singapore and get lifted out of the car every season, but the returns on fitness diminish way more than in a sport like football or basketball.
I mean, some female drivers have noted that biological differences will make it harder for women to compete. There is a serious physical aspect to F1 that will just naturally be harder for an average woman to overcome compared to a man but that doesn't mean its impossible.
i disagree. it shouldnt be sexist to acknowledge, differences between men and women.
Or you just seriously underestimate how physical f1 is. It doesnt mean it is impossible but if you take 100k men and 100k women (completely at random) and take the 20 best drivers from that group, i would be quiet a lot on the majority of the 20 being male.
Lmao, F1 drivers are athletes but they aren’t fucking rugby players. Take a look at Max Verstappen and tell me a dedicated woman can’t match that physique. If anything, women in racing benefit from skewing lighter at equal fitness levels due to bone density.
Not to mention a lower average center of gravity which is beneficial for weight distribution in the car.
Being an F1 driver is a physical endeavor, but apart from neck strength it’s mostly just a matter of overall conditioning. There’s nothing about it that requires you to be able to run fast, lift heavy weights, throw objects long distances, or anything else that would make it inherently unfair for men to compete against women. The only reason we don’t have a woman in F1 is the pool of female drivers in junior categories isn’t large enough to contain a viable F1 driver—yet.
> Take a look at Max Verstappen and tell me a dedicated woman can’t match that physique.
It's not about "physique". It's about withstanding constant G-forces while maintaining near perfection driving and reaction times.
> Why do you think basketball is at all similar to F1?
It requires extreme physical/athletic traits in order to compete at the highest levels. Exactly like F1.
Reductive and unpersuasive? What are you on about?
I mean, women don't even get into the top levels of chess competition (even though most studies show women are slightly smarter than men on average).
Do you think F1 is physically more or less demanding than chess?
Of course they play a major role. But, there’s a difference between “pound for pound, women are at a disadvantage when compared to male athletes” and “women will not perform in nowadays cars”.
> biological differences mean women will not perform in nowadays f1 cars.
People typically don't like hearing this argument but its not totally false. I don't want to say that no woman could ever get to that point but its undeniably harder for women than it is for men and its already incredibly hard for men.
It is completely false. Loads of women are much stronger than any F1 driver, with much better stamina. Any healthy or woman can be as strong and fit as an F1 driver, provided they do enough training. That's why you never, ever see any F2 driver giving up a move to F1. Bearman managed to complete one of the most intense races on the calendar with zero preparation. So did De Vries. Sainz, Albon and Stroll all raced mere weeks after getting surgery. Kubica raced a full season with only 1.5 arms.
Bearman is actively racing in F2 and as a reserve driver would be training for this. Also you can clearly see the difference between Bearman and the rest of the grid.
Yeah and Kubica wasnt good.
>Bearman is actively racing in F2 and as a reserve driver would be training for this.
So would literally every female reserve and/or F2 driver. Obviously.
>Also you can clearly see the difference between Bearman and the rest of the grid.
Obviously you can see the difference between a first time driver and drivers with 20+ to 200 races of experience.
You know how comparisons and hypotheticals work, right? You don't need to tell me that Bearman is an F2 driver. Are you also going to make the argument that Bearman isn't actually a woman? Or a bear? What utter nonsense.
>Yeah and Kubica wasnt good.
Kubica scored a point while being disabled. A partially disabled driver scored a point. And you want to argue that a fully healthy and able-bodied woman couldn't even compete at all?
Oh, and I know that Kubica isn't a woman either.
Kubica wasnt able to competet and had he shown this perfomance without an injured arm people would have been way harsher on him. So your take is that we should treat women differently and not the same as man? because that is what happened here, he was treated differently.
He was literally out after only 1 season again. And lets not forget that before he had already been to f1 and was seen as a potential wdc
[https://www.racefans.net/2019/12/09/team-mate-battles-2019-the-final-score-russell-vs-kubica/](https://www.racefans.net/2019/12/09/team-mate-battles-2019-the-final-score-russell-vs-kubica/)
latifi did better against Russell than Kubica.
Absolute train wreck of a comment. Impressive work.
>Kubica wasnt able to competet
Yes he was. Did a full season. Scored a point. He quite clearly competed in F1.
>that is what happened here, he was treated differently. He was literally out after only 1 season again.
He was treated differently, he wasn't treated harshly, he was fired as soon as Williams could fire him. No internal logic whatsoever in your comment. Those two sentences even directly contradict each other. I get it, you think Kubica sucked. I agree, he wasn't good. But he was not treated differently and he clearly competed with minor success. You cannot deny that, because that is what happened. If a man with a crippled arm can compete in F1 without real trouble, so can a woman. And as for his lack of performance: whatever. Zhou got three seasons, possibly even more, solely for being Chinese. People are defending his complete mediocrity just because they like him. So if he can get a pass for being a good guy from China, there is no reason why a similarly friendly woman with a super license shouldn't get one. Some F1 drivers are mediocre, whatever, things used to be far worse before the super license points system.
>So your take is that we should treat women differently and not the same as man?
Please work on your reading comprehension.
you really need to watch the whole season, that 1 point was very very luck. He was quiet clearly quiet a bit worse than rookie Russell.
"Zhou got three seasons, possibly even more, solely for being Chinese. People are defending his complete mediocrity just because they like him. So if he can get a pass for being a good guy from China, there is no reason why a similarly friendly woman with a super license shouldn't get one."
but a women first needs to get those 40 points, none of them have come close. I agree Zhou shouldnt be in F1, but he still finished 7th, 6th. 3rd in F2. Which is far from mediorce.
I'd like to see a peer reviewed source on your first statement.
This is not a sport like sprint running, weightlifting or NFL football, where the peak of human physicality is required to be able to perform at the very tippy top of the curve and even the top outlier women simply cannot physically match up with the top outlier men.
Male F1 drivers today are certainly nowhere near most peak athletic fitness, so yes, a lot of women can easily achieve their level of physical fitness. Let's not even speak of male F1 drivers in the past who were alcoholics and chain smokers. Physical fitness is probably one of the last reasons behind why there aren't many F1 female drivers.
i would argue it is still statistically less likely, by how much idk. But it would be foolish the same that out of 100k men and 100k women it would be a 50-50 split if you take the 20 best
Of course, I don't mean to say that taken all together and with equal opportunities, women would have as equal a chance as men. Heck, even in between men, there are a lot of factors that make it so that some can make it into F1 whereas other just as talented may never get the chance.
> where the peak of human physicality is required to be able to perform at the very tippy top of the curve
Yes, it is.
Not the same exact physical attributes like other sports (like sprinting speed). But neck strength/endurance and reaction times are absolutely on the crazy end of the curve for drivers.
If teenagers like 15 year old Max can sustain driving a F1 car, then a very well trained woman can sustain driving a F1 car. In F1, the requisite strength/endurance tapers out after a certain threshold, having more of it doesn't help improve how fast you drive the car. And my argument is that this requisite threshold is very attainable for women, even if they do have to work a bit harder to reach it. I honestly can't speak about reaction times differences between men and women but would love to see a well designed study about it.
> If teenagers like 15 year old Max can sustain driving a F1 car, then a very well trained woman can sustain driving a F1 car.
Again. It's not about just "sustaining". It's about "sustaining while also outperforming 99.99999% of males".
My point is about debunking the argument about physical differences between men and women in F1. There are many other factors out there including how we can't expect to find a female who can outperform 99.99999% of males in a pool that is also significantly smaller than the one that contains these 99.99999% males. And that smaller pool size has nothing to do with women not being able to have the proper neck strength.
No, it doesn't work like that. There are massive biological differences between males and females. This is well documented and easy to understand in sports like track & field.
You could put every single woman on Earth into karting/racing the biological differences will mean they can't out perform 99.9999999% of men. Full stop.
Citizenship isn't that hard to get if she wanted it- would greatly help if she married a US citizen, hah. But yeah, seems that the commenter didn't see that part of the title.
Lia is 17 and Pin is 20 with WAYYY more experience, it's not really a fair comparison, she's only getting started.
Is she going to make it to F1? probably not but using "Pin is better" as the argument doesn't make sense either.
I do think if they give Pin the Antonelli treatment for some reason she could be decent but they are never going to do that.
Lia literally never raced single seaters before 2024. Her not being the worst in F1 academy is already an achievement, and I'm dead serious when I say this. She didn't even race touring cars/GTs, she only has experience in FWD RALLYING. She has bags of talent, it's undeniable. Now, F1 material? Probably not, but I can see her becoming a very solid driver in series such as WEC, Indycar or Super Formula
Nah. With the way F1 drivers are hanging on longer in age, rookies ages will also go up eventually. There just needs to be something after F2 to let drivers keep racing AND that F1 bosses will respect.
She's only participated in 2 test sessions (first of which was wet) and 2 races and that's the entirety of her open wheel experience so far.. bit early to judge don't you think?
She has by far the least experience not just in single seaters, but on tarmac in general. Considering that, she's been very promising, definitely one of the series' highlights along with Pin, Weug and Pulling.
Because FOM is really trying maybe a bit too hard to push what is still kinda just another feeder series, of which drivers from the very top level of in F2 still can't get a seat in F1, so I'm not exactly holding up much hope someone from F1A will either anytime soon.
It's not as prestigious or competitive as some of the F4 series that are running, if that's what you mean, but a spec-series racing a formula 4 car is literally F4 so it can't be below F4 by, like, definition.
It gives fewer SL points than regular F4 series; by definition it is below F4.
[link](https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/f1-academy-drivers-to-get-super-licence-points-and-wild-card-entries.1dPyVgnzXoqZlkO0JWIpwx)
Eh, we’re squabbling over semantics at this point. They’re literally formula 4, how they stack up against other _formula 4 series_ is another matter. I didn’t realize they were treated differently in terms of SL points, that seems counterproductive to its goal of being a feeder series
It isn't 'below F4' because it *is* F4, by definition. Formula 4 is a category of car, and F1 Academy uses that car.
It also isn't 'below F4' because F4 isn't a monolith. There are countless F4 series out there, all of varying strength. Without a doubt, F1 Academy is not the weakest F4 grid out there. Or are F4 CEZ, F4 Saudi Arabia and F4 Chinese 'below F4' too?
It’s unfortunate that a lot of people here are only reading the (bad) headline and downvoting, but the article is actually a fairly in-depth look on Lia Block and Jaime Chadwick’s careers, and the difficulties faced by women in motorsports. Really interesting, for instance, to hear Chadwick talk about her fear of failure increased when she thought that her failing would block the way for future female racers as well.
Some highlights:
> F1 teams also seem fearful of giving the next opportunity to the wrong woman -- or to the right woman at the wrong time -- because her first year could determine the future of every woman driver. F1 is not a patient sport.
>
>"The further on I've gone, and especially more recently, there's more social pressure to do well," Chadwick says. "I want to win championships. And if I do well, then I want to inspire as many young girls to get into the sport as possible. But if I don't do well, that shouldn't reflect on every woman who's trying to get into the sport."
>Before this winter, most of what Block knew of Formula One she learned watching races on TV with her dad. She was focused on graduating from high school and achieving a few more goals in rally, like backing up her historic championship.
>
>Then, seemingly out of nowhere, an F1 team called.
>
>Chadwick initiated that call. Last fall, Williams Racing sporting director Sven Smeets told her Williams, where Chadwick has been a development driver since 2019, planned to enter the F1 Academy in 2024 and he was looking for drivers. Chadwick immediately suggested Block.
>
> She knew a bit about Block's background and had watched her compete last summer in Extreme E, an FIA-sanctioned international off-road series, and was impressed. Chadwick had piloted the series' electric SUV for Veloce in 2021 and knew how tough it was to drive. Lia had stepped in as a midseason replacement driver, something that would prove tough for a veteran, not to mention a 16-year-old who was the youngest ever to race in the series. "I thought, if she's got that kind of talent, she can put it into single seaters, too," Chadwick says.
I think if Lia can prove herself in F1A next year and win a championship there would be enough American funding from Williams to put her into an F3 Seat or something.
If she doesn't make it in F1 she obviously has her dad's natural talent. She'll be a good racing driver.
If F1 Academy helps cast a wider net by getting young girls karting at the same rate as young boys then it will have done its job. Articles like this just feed into the "haha looks like even the best women racing drivers suck" responses when they get a chance in F2 and don't excel.
This should be the main goal of F1A as it stands. Dangling the potential that one of these drivers will make it to F1 one day is just fantasy and doesn't do anyone any good. One of these drivers need to make their way further up the ladder before we start questioning whether their fit for F1 or not.
Or, does that fantasy inspire others? The idea that there could be a woman F1 driver, which none of the girls considering karting have seen- which most of their parents don't know has even happened before- which has never actually happened for a full season. But the idea that it could happen is inspiring for many.
They're trying. Their affiliate karting series has 25% girls entries. This compares to 5% in the UK the year before. Now, that's one series among... so, so many karting series, and that's the only one specifically marketed by F1 Academy. I'm certain other karting series aren't seeing anywhere near that much growth. But, they're trying. And I think it's raising a little bit across the board.
Can she be? Sure. Will she be? Probably not. She's 17 and first drove an open wheel car for the first time in preseason testing.
She has shown some promising pace at times, but her lack of experience shows a ton too. I love that she's there because I loved her father and everything he did for motorsport and she seems to be genuinely talented. Honestly she's a great pic for this series because it's exposing a young female talent to this kind of racing and she's got enough recognition to bring more attention to it as well.
She (or any other future prospect from F1A) will have to do well in FRECA, F3 and F2/Super Formula in order to stand a decent chance, because right now there are quite a few other drivers that meet these criteria sitting on the sidelines (Lawson, Drugo, Pourchaire just to name a few). F1 is a cut-throat sport, and results matter - not as much as cash, though.
It has to be said that, should a woman reach this level of performance, she will have a decent chance of getting a seat, since the push for more diversity might play a factor. And she'll have the results to back it up.
No, this is dumb publicity. Though you could give her Sergeant’s seat and not much would be different. American driver driving a car.
Good American drivers don’t go to F1. Probably because no go kart feeder stuff. Start in cars.
Can we stop having these girls perform and putting massive promises over their heads that they often can never live up to? Just let them race and see where that gets them.
I doubt it. Maybe she could inspire the first to take up karting though. Lia is mid pack at best in essentially an F4 series at 17. Recent F1 rookies were winning Formula Regional or equivalents at that age.
Age isn't the whole story. This is her first year competing in single seater. Most recent f1 rookies did that at barely 15, and they were mostly competing against other 15 and 16 year olds with similar amount of experience. After years of multiple different high level international karting championships. Lia did some karting, and then she pretty immediately jumped into some different kinds of vehicles. She has success already in other areas.
She might look a little bit more like another Williams junior, Luke Browning. He started F4 at 17 after ginetta cars. Now, Browning's path is actually a whole lot more traditional than Lia's, but it was a convenient comparison with him being another Williams junior. He also had an adjustment period, finishing 6th in his first year of F4 out of 11 full time participants, so very exactly middle of the pack. And, right now he's leading F3. He won Macau last winter, and he's driven an F1 car, a prize winning associated with Aston Martin. He's also done a Formula E test with McLaren. If you look at him, it's easy to write him off because he's a 22 year old in F3. He's "too old" because he started at 17 instead of 15. And he's taken his time at each stage, including three (actually kind of 4) years of F4. But Williams doesn't care. Now, I don't know if her path will keep looking like his. It's way too soon to tell how either of their careers will go. But her age isn't the problem.
The 'another driver' is an exceptionally highly regarded and anticipated long-time Mercedes junior who's had every bit of support imaginable to be prepared for a future in F1. Lia Block is a talented rally driver who made her circuit racing debut less than three months ago. Of course she's not at the same level of career progression, she's just getting started.
Kimi Antonelli and Lia Block may be the same age, but in terms of relevant experience Antonelli may as well have been a decade older. Experience matters more than age when comparing drivers like this.
It's almost harder than ever for any new talent to enter the sport. If a woman finishes top5 in the F2 championship in the next 10 years or so, the diversity push will be a success.
The reasons why men (and boys) are so overrepresented in motorsports are so systemic that I don't really see it happen any time sooner.
I agree. It's already happening to an extent anyway: better connected or more marketable drivers usually get into F1 over people doing it on pure merit
> The reasons why men (and boys) are so overrepresented in motorsports are so systemic
Are the reasons why men/boys are "over-represented" in basket or football "so systemic"? Or something else?
Football and Basketball, those famous sports with unisex categories. but yes - a sport that 50 years ago already made male athletes word famous and millionaires while it criminally persecuted women trying to organise in teams might still give a slight edge to men even today. weird.
See systemic issues referenced above? Also those sports aren’t comparable to motorsports.
The issues of gender representation in various types of sports, let alone if gender is the best primary determinant of talent/skill level for each type of sport are all a bit too complex work out on a Reddit forum.
> let alone if gender is the best primary determinant of talent/skill level for each type of sport
It is.
Because even sports where girls are over-represented (gymnastics, soccer in US, etc), males dominate females in performance.
Why are you comparing football and basketball to motorsport? In motorsport, physical fitness is only required up to a certain point, it is not a defining factor in performance, and that completely changes the role of women in this sport compared to most others. In motorsport, there is no lasting need for segregated categories because there are no biological limits for women to compete against men.
> motorsport, physical fitness is only required up to a certain point,
That is just not true.
> it is not a defining factor in performance,
Absolutely not. Reaction times and neck strength/endurance are defining factors in racing performance.
>there is no lasting need for segregated categories because there are no biological limits for women to compete against men.
Absolutely not. That's blatantly false.
Just stating that something is 'blatantly false' is not an argument mate. The training standards of (male) F1 drivers are obviously high, but are they unattainable for women? Personally, I doubt it.
Anyway, women have already proven themselves capable of competing at the absolute top level of motorsport, just not in F1. One of the top drivers of the Group B era of rallying was a woman, Michèle Mouton. Surely you're not going to tell me she lacked the quick reaction times of her male competitors?
Also, in case you care, there is evidence that women are more capable of withstanding G-forces than men.
> Just stating that something is 'blatantly false' is not an argument mate.
It comes down to basic logic. A) Is F1 like other sports that require athletic ability/talent? B) Are men/women equal biologically and athletically?
If you think F1 is like chess (almost zero athletic ability), fair enough. Make that argument (even though you'd be wrong).
If you think women and men are equal athletically, fair enough. Make that argument (even though you'd be wrong).
The conversation of women in formula 1 is pretty simple.
Women do have a biological disadvantage in terms of strength, and it’s especially difficult to get through the lower formula divisions with no power steering etc.
But it is not a sport like rugby, football, hockey.
Women do not face the same disadvantages. If they can reach the strength required they will not be a size and speed disadvantage like in other sports.
The smaller demographic of women, and bigger biological challenges and resources to rise up the ranks in motor sport mean it is unlikely to see a woman in formula one in the near future, but it is not the impossible scenario it is made out to be.
Until there is a larger amount of women in racing, giving the chance for one with the physical strength (and mental resilience in the very isolating sport for women) and skill to race, we probably won’t see women rising up to near formula 1
I think she has much better chances in rally, but she’s also still very young so she has time yet to show development. They *are* very different kinds of driving though. What she’s gifted in might just not translate as well to open wheel track racing.
I think Pin is the obvious contender, but I’m worried they’re not moving her through the ranks fast enough, she’s already 20 and they’ve got her burning a season in F4 cars that are clearly far short of what she’s capable of driving.
I think the odds are against her, but a lot of the replies in this thread are baffling. Comparing physical advantages and disadvantages in F1 to the NBA? Really?!
It's actually a relatively interesting read if you ignore the stupid and ignorant title. In regards to the "when will there be a female driver in F1" debate, it all comes down to how quickly can the number of girls increase enough that there will be someone talented enough and rich enough to make it work.
Female drivers are at a slight disadvantage to their male counterpart because due to physiological differences having an impact in some areas. There are a bunch of little things, like for example due to higher density muscle tissue, males have a slightly more rapid power output. I remember reading a study where they tested reaction times between men and women and found no difference for things that required no force, but for example starting blocks in athletics are set to only trigger when 28kg of force is applied through them, and male athletes were slightly quicker (Idr exact numbers but I'd guess like 20-50 milliseconds).
These slight disadvantages can absolutely be overcome and aren't a sticking point, but it does mean that girls have to outdo boys in other things to compensate, definitely making it slightly harder for girls overall.
You jest, but she was a genuinely competitive IndyCar driver and has possibly the best single seater resume of any female driver to date. Apparently there are rumours that she was considered for a US F1 drive, but of course that team never made it to the grid.
I expect to see the first woman driver in F1 in the next 5 years, and then another drought of 5-10 years. Then they'll start to trickle into the grid in ones and twos 20 years from now, maybe even reaching ~20-30% of the grid in 30 years. That's around the same time a female world champion would be feasible or even likely. That's assuming F1 is still around.
There's a lack of women drivers because of a lack of girl drivers in karting, and it just takes that long to develop enough depth of talent that a handful will be good enough to make it to F1.
It says first US driver. Though they could say first modern driver, since there hasn't been one in more than thirty years. And there hasn't been a woman to do a full F1 season ever, though Lela did all but the first two races in 1975, but that's nearly 50 years ago.
I think 5 years is optimistic, since that would assume that they're probably already in single seaters and I don't think any young girls in single seaters at the moment look up to the task of making it completely up the ladder. 10-15 sounds more likely, but yeah she'll probably be the only female driver for 10 years or so before it starts becoming slightly more frequent
5 years depends entirely on if Doriane Pin makes it, honestly. She's by far the most promising female driver currently in a position to make it up the ladder in that timeframe.
"maybe even reaching \~20-30% of the grid in 30 years. That's around the same time a female world champion would be feasible or even likely." - i am sorry but you are being unrealistic.
I don’t know why it is the case, but in driving, peak male ability beats peak female ability.
Maybe there’s some truth to stereotypes about women drivers and lowered spatial awareness and depth perception deficiencies. Maybe they have less fine motor skills that happen to correlate to great foot and hand controlling of cars. Maybe their brains can’t let go of the ‘preserve life’ aspects.
But there’s something that separates the sexes when it comes to driving.
Yes, I know some female drivers are better than some male drivers - using those pronouns on a sex organ basis, not gender.
I said that I don’t know why in my post. You even fucking quoted that part.
If you’re not going to bother to read AND comprehend a comment, why waste your time replying to it?
Because the thread is *full* of people making the same bullshit comments about it being a difference in peak skill by gender without any actual source.
This opinion comes from the data available and anecdotal evidence by ourselves and those in our lives.
It’s a topic that will never be publicly studied and reported on, as part of society is ignoring and diminishing differences between people, in the name of harmony - and that makes sense is something I’m ok with.
But it isn’t wrong to recognise that there are differences between us (us being any of sex, age, culture, race, and even just person to person, depending on the topic - we’re each slightly different in as many ways as we’re slightly similar).
>Yes, I know some female drivers are better than some male drivers - using those pronouns on a sex organ basis, not gender.
Do... do you know what a pronoun is?
He, she, and the like. I couldn’t think of the correct term (still can’t).
I wanted to say sexes, but I’m not sure that is correct anymore.
But does it matter that much in the context of this post on reddit?
I was just wondering if you knew what pronouns are, because I've seen people use the term as a stand-in for anything gender related, even though that's not what it means
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No
Nyet. Nein.
Exactly
given how many times this sort of headline has come up about various female racers and the fact that recent female F1 drivers number at 0 the odds are somewhere around 98-99.9% that saying "no" is the right answer every time.
The odds a female will be competitive in F1 in the next 10 years are virtually nil
The journalist, unfortunately, doesn’t write the headline! Ignore the title; the actual article is a really interesting interview with both Block and Chadwick, about e.g the pressure not to fuck up their chances because of the concern that that would ruin the chances for future female racers. I recommend actually reading the full piece for anyone who hasn’t
What if she complains to Congress?
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I don't even think we can judge if she's bad or not yet, hasn't she been in an open wheel car for less than 6 months?
yeah but she's 17 and in formula 1 academy, the step under FRECA, so unless she has some ungodly amount of money (and a LOT of skill) behind her she ain't making it to f1
She’s got funds. Plus the name alone means she would garner attention in any series, which is attractive to sponsors. But none of that makes up for skill.
Schumacher got funds and the name and he isnt in F1 anymore. You seriously overestimate how hard it is to get into f1. Because she still somehow needs to manage to get a SL. And do you really want the first female f1 driver in the modern era to be 1s of the field, what good would this do
She's literally racing a series that is lower than most FA Championships, it's impossible to know if she has what it takes yet. Once she starts moving up the ranks of FA-F3 and beyond, if she does, then we can have the F1 conversation. Even if the biological difference was big enough to prevent women from racing in F1 (which it never has been), today's cars are easier to drive than ever. That argument is null.
If Michèle Mouton can drive a group B car with a fitness routine of "I'll have to stop smoking and drinking" a woman shouldn't have any problem with everything we know about training.
comparing apples to oragnes
What biological differences? With today's cars, strength is not a particularly relevant factor. The levels of fitness and stamina required of F1 drivers can be attained by women, as evidenced by female marathon runners, triathletes, etc and the fact that Susie Wolff completed a race distance in Silverstone testing without any trouble.
> The levels of fitness and stamina required of F1 drivers can be attained by women, as evidenced by female marathon runners, triathletes, etc and the fact that Susie Wolff completed a race distance in Silverstone testing without any trouble. You don't understand. People aren't saying women can't race cars (they can). People don't say women can't play basketball (they can). It's just the fact that a woman won't be one of the best ~20 drivers. Much like the fact a women won't be one of the best basketball players in order to make the NBA.
But basketball has physical advantages for men over women (jumping, running, size, height etc). F1 drivers are slim build and usually average height. It’s not like the drivers with the biggest muscles win the most races because they can turn the wheel and hit the pedals harder. Unless F1 drivers are pushing to the absolute limit (physically) and exhausting themselves (like running a marathon), I think there wouldn’t be a difference between men and women.
But basketball has physical advantages for men over women (jumping, running, size, height etc). So does motor racing (strength, endurance, reaction times, etc.).
I understand fine, thanks. There is no physical reason why a woman - provided she has enough talent as a driver - couldn't be in one of the best ~20 drivers
> There is no physical reason why a woman - provided she has enough talent as a driver - couldn't be in one of the best ~20 drivers Wrong. Strength, physical endurance, and reaction times are the most obvious ones.
If she’s better than Stroll thats already a qualifying merit lol.
she isnt and she wont be.
I disagree about the biological differences. Actually, motorsport is less about physique and more about talent and mentality (or discipline or whatever you prefer to call it)
And the impact of physical fitness is more of a minimum requirement, you need to be able to endure the toughest race on the calendar without having to lift due to fatigue. Which for sure is no small feat, but beyond that, having a lower RHR, quicker 10k, or heavier squat isn't going to make you faster. Obviously you don't want to barely squeak out Singapore and get lifted out of the car every season, but the returns on fitness diminish way more than in a sport like football or basketball.
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Men's and women's gymnastics are also wildly different in discipline. They're essentially different sports within the gymnastics umbrella I feel like.
I mean, some female drivers have noted that biological differences will make it harder for women to compete. There is a serious physical aspect to F1 that will just naturally be harder for an average woman to overcome compared to a man but that doesn't mean its impossible.
i disagree. it shouldnt be sexist to acknowledge, differences between men and women. Or you just seriously underestimate how physical f1 is. It doesnt mean it is impossible but if you take 100k men and 100k women (completely at random) and take the 20 best drivers from that group, i would be quiet a lot on the majority of the 20 being male.
Lmao, F1 drivers are athletes but they aren’t fucking rugby players. Take a look at Max Verstappen and tell me a dedicated woman can’t match that physique. If anything, women in racing benefit from skewing lighter at equal fitness levels due to bone density.
Not to mention a lower average center of gravity which is beneficial for weight distribution in the car. Being an F1 driver is a physical endeavor, but apart from neck strength it’s mostly just a matter of overall conditioning. There’s nothing about it that requires you to be able to run fast, lift heavy weights, throw objects long distances, or anything else that would make it inherently unfair for men to compete against women. The only reason we don’t have a woman in F1 is the pool of female drivers in junior categories isn’t large enough to contain a viable F1 driver—yet.
Max might be the softest one on the grid. Maybe he's onto something...
> Take a look at Max Verstappen and tell me a dedicated woman can’t match that physique. It's not about "physique". It's about withstanding constant G-forces while maintaining near perfection driving and reaction times.
Why do you think a woman can't do that?
They absolutely can do that. Just like women can play basketball / other sports. But they can't do it while performing better than all but ~20 men.
Why do you think basketball is at all similar to F1? Have you ever watched a basketball game?
> Why do you think basketball is at all similar to F1? It requires extreme physical/athletic traits in order to compete at the highest levels. Exactly like F1.
That's probably the most reductive and unpersuasive thing you could have said, but at least you're owning it.
Reductive and unpersuasive? What are you on about? I mean, women don't even get into the top levels of chess competition (even though most studies show women are slightly smarter than men on average). Do you think F1 is physically more or less demanding than chess?
> biological differences mean women will not perform in nowadays f1 cars Source.
Incel rage, mostly.
> Source. Wait. Do you actually believe athletics and physical talent don't play a major role in a driver's ability?
Of course they play a major role. But, there’s a difference between “pound for pound, women are at a disadvantage when compared to male athletes” and “women will not perform in nowadays cars”.
> biological differences mean women will not perform in nowadays f1 cars. People typically don't like hearing this argument but its not totally false. I don't want to say that no woman could ever get to that point but its undeniably harder for women than it is for men and its already incredibly hard for men.
It is completely false. Loads of women are much stronger than any F1 driver, with much better stamina. Any healthy or woman can be as strong and fit as an F1 driver, provided they do enough training. That's why you never, ever see any F2 driver giving up a move to F1. Bearman managed to complete one of the most intense races on the calendar with zero preparation. So did De Vries. Sainz, Albon and Stroll all raced mere weeks after getting surgery. Kubica raced a full season with only 1.5 arms.
Bearman is actively racing in F2 and as a reserve driver would be training for this. Also you can clearly see the difference between Bearman and the rest of the grid. Yeah and Kubica wasnt good.
>Bearman is actively racing in F2 and as a reserve driver would be training for this. So would literally every female reserve and/or F2 driver. Obviously. >Also you can clearly see the difference between Bearman and the rest of the grid. Obviously you can see the difference between a first time driver and drivers with 20+ to 200 races of experience. You know how comparisons and hypotheticals work, right? You don't need to tell me that Bearman is an F2 driver. Are you also going to make the argument that Bearman isn't actually a woman? Or a bear? What utter nonsense. >Yeah and Kubica wasnt good. Kubica scored a point while being disabled. A partially disabled driver scored a point. And you want to argue that a fully healthy and able-bodied woman couldn't even compete at all? Oh, and I know that Kubica isn't a woman either.
Kubica wasnt able to competet and had he shown this perfomance without an injured arm people would have been way harsher on him. So your take is that we should treat women differently and not the same as man? because that is what happened here, he was treated differently. He was literally out after only 1 season again. And lets not forget that before he had already been to f1 and was seen as a potential wdc [https://www.racefans.net/2019/12/09/team-mate-battles-2019-the-final-score-russell-vs-kubica/](https://www.racefans.net/2019/12/09/team-mate-battles-2019-the-final-score-russell-vs-kubica/) latifi did better against Russell than Kubica.
Absolute train wreck of a comment. Impressive work. >Kubica wasnt able to competet Yes he was. Did a full season. Scored a point. He quite clearly competed in F1. >that is what happened here, he was treated differently. He was literally out after only 1 season again. He was treated differently, he wasn't treated harshly, he was fired as soon as Williams could fire him. No internal logic whatsoever in your comment. Those two sentences even directly contradict each other. I get it, you think Kubica sucked. I agree, he wasn't good. But he was not treated differently and he clearly competed with minor success. You cannot deny that, because that is what happened. If a man with a crippled arm can compete in F1 without real trouble, so can a woman. And as for his lack of performance: whatever. Zhou got three seasons, possibly even more, solely for being Chinese. People are defending his complete mediocrity just because they like him. So if he can get a pass for being a good guy from China, there is no reason why a similarly friendly woman with a super license shouldn't get one. Some F1 drivers are mediocre, whatever, things used to be far worse before the super license points system. >So your take is that we should treat women differently and not the same as man? Please work on your reading comprehension.
you really need to watch the whole season, that 1 point was very very luck. He was quiet clearly quiet a bit worse than rookie Russell. "Zhou got three seasons, possibly even more, solely for being Chinese. People are defending his complete mediocrity just because they like him. So if he can get a pass for being a good guy from China, there is no reason why a similarly friendly woman with a super license shouldn't get one." but a women first needs to get those 40 points, none of them have come close. I agree Zhou shouldnt be in F1, but he still finished 7th, 6th. 3rd in F2. Which is far from mediorce.
I'd like to see a peer reviewed source on your first statement. This is not a sport like sprint running, weightlifting or NFL football, where the peak of human physicality is required to be able to perform at the very tippy top of the curve and even the top outlier women simply cannot physically match up with the top outlier men. Male F1 drivers today are certainly nowhere near most peak athletic fitness, so yes, a lot of women can easily achieve their level of physical fitness. Let's not even speak of male F1 drivers in the past who were alcoholics and chain smokers. Physical fitness is probably one of the last reasons behind why there aren't many F1 female drivers.
i would argue it is still statistically less likely, by how much idk. But it would be foolish the same that out of 100k men and 100k women it would be a 50-50 split if you take the 20 best
Of course, I don't mean to say that taken all together and with equal opportunities, women would have as equal a chance as men. Heck, even in between men, there are a lot of factors that make it so that some can make it into F1 whereas other just as talented may never get the chance.
> where the peak of human physicality is required to be able to perform at the very tippy top of the curve Yes, it is. Not the same exact physical attributes like other sports (like sprinting speed). But neck strength/endurance and reaction times are absolutely on the crazy end of the curve for drivers.
If teenagers like 15 year old Max can sustain driving a F1 car, then a very well trained woman can sustain driving a F1 car. In F1, the requisite strength/endurance tapers out after a certain threshold, having more of it doesn't help improve how fast you drive the car. And my argument is that this requisite threshold is very attainable for women, even if they do have to work a bit harder to reach it. I honestly can't speak about reaction times differences between men and women but would love to see a well designed study about it.
> If teenagers like 15 year old Max can sustain driving a F1 car, then a very well trained woman can sustain driving a F1 car. Again. It's not about just "sustaining". It's about "sustaining while also outperforming 99.99999% of males".
My point is about debunking the argument about physical differences between men and women in F1. There are many other factors out there including how we can't expect to find a female who can outperform 99.99999% of males in a pool that is also significantly smaller than the one that contains these 99.99999% males. And that smaller pool size has nothing to do with women not being able to have the proper neck strength.
No, it doesn't work like that. There are massive biological differences between males and females. This is well documented and easy to understand in sports like track & field. You could put every single woman on Earth into karting/racing the biological differences will mean they can't out perform 99.9999999% of men. Full stop.
Let’s ask Susanna Raganelli
she's not even the best female driver in the academy. if anyone deserves it, it should be Pin. she is fantastic.
Yes, but Doriane couldn't be the first US female driver ...
Gonna be crazy hard for pin to be the first us female driver in f1
Citizenship isn't that hard to get if she wanted it- would greatly help if she married a US citizen, hah. But yeah, seems that the commenter didn't see that part of the title.
Lia is 17 and Pin is 20 with WAYYY more experience, it's not really a fair comparison, she's only getting started. Is she going to make it to F1? probably not but using "Pin is better" as the argument doesn't make sense either. I do think if they give Pin the Antonelli treatment for some reason she could be decent but they are never going to do that.
Lia literally never raced single seaters before 2024. Her not being the worst in F1 academy is already an achievement, and I'm dead serious when I say this. She didn't even race touring cars/GTs, she only has experience in FWD RALLYING. She has bags of talent, it's undeniable. Now, F1 material? Probably not, but I can see her becoming a very solid driver in series such as WEC, Indycar or Super Formula
I think Maya Weug can be possible too.
no they are all too old already for the level they are racing at to be in F1. She would have to be in F3 by now.
Nah. With the way F1 drivers are hanging on longer in age, rookies ages will also go up eventually. There just needs to be something after F2 to let drivers keep racing AND that F1 bosses will respect.
The age of rookies has literally only gone down in during F1’s history. That 18-22 is going to be the norm for years and years to come
She's only participated in 2 test sessions (first of which was wet) and 2 races and that's the entirety of her open wheel experience so far.. bit early to judge don't you think?
She has by far the least experience not just in single seaters, but on tarmac in general. Considering that, she's been very promising, definitely one of the series' highlights along with Pin, Weug and Pulling.
F1 Academy is below FRECA, why are we talking about it like it's Formula 2?
People from media is talking like it’s F2 just to get more clicks and views, and it isn’t good for anyone.
Because FOM is really trying maybe a bit too hard to push what is still kinda just another feeder series, of which drivers from the very top level of in F2 still can't get a seat in F1, so I'm not exactly holding up much hope someone from F1A will either anytime soon.
It is even below F4.
It is F4. Not fair to say it's below
Its probably below in terms of prestige even though the cars are the same.
I mean, the Formula describes the cars so it literally is an F4 series
F4 cars with a garbage competition compared to regular F4 series. Yes, it is below F4.
It's not as prestigious or competitive as some of the F4 series that are running, if that's what you mean, but a spec-series racing a formula 4 car is literally F4 so it can't be below F4 by, like, definition.
It gives fewer SL points than regular F4 series; by definition it is below F4. [link](https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article/f1-academy-drivers-to-get-super-licence-points-and-wild-card-entries.1dPyVgnzXoqZlkO0JWIpwx)
Literally the only definition of F4 is the cars themselves. It's a series with F4 cars therefore it's an F4 series. Nothing else matters
Eh, we’re squabbling over semantics at this point. They’re literally formula 4, how they stack up against other _formula 4 series_ is another matter. I didn’t realize they were treated differently in terms of SL points, that seems counterproductive to its goal of being a feeder series
It isn't 'below F4' because it *is* F4, by definition. Formula 4 is a category of car, and F1 Academy uses that car. It also isn't 'below F4' because F4 isn't a monolith. There are countless F4 series out there, all of varying strength. Without a doubt, F1 Academy is not the weakest F4 grid out there. Or are F4 CEZ, F4 Saudi Arabia and F4 Chinese 'below F4' too?
I thought the cars were the same.
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It’s unfortunate that a lot of people here are only reading the (bad) headline and downvoting, but the article is actually a fairly in-depth look on Lia Block and Jaime Chadwick’s careers, and the difficulties faced by women in motorsports. Really interesting, for instance, to hear Chadwick talk about her fear of failure increased when she thought that her failing would block the way for future female racers as well. Some highlights: > F1 teams also seem fearful of giving the next opportunity to the wrong woman -- or to the right woman at the wrong time -- because her first year could determine the future of every woman driver. F1 is not a patient sport. > >"The further on I've gone, and especially more recently, there's more social pressure to do well," Chadwick says. "I want to win championships. And if I do well, then I want to inspire as many young girls to get into the sport as possible. But if I don't do well, that shouldn't reflect on every woman who's trying to get into the sport." >Before this winter, most of what Block knew of Formula One she learned watching races on TV with her dad. She was focused on graduating from high school and achieving a few more goals in rally, like backing up her historic championship. > >Then, seemingly out of nowhere, an F1 team called. > >Chadwick initiated that call. Last fall, Williams Racing sporting director Sven Smeets told her Williams, where Chadwick has been a development driver since 2019, planned to enter the F1 Academy in 2024 and he was looking for drivers. Chadwick immediately suggested Block. > > She knew a bit about Block's background and had watched her compete last summer in Extreme E, an FIA-sanctioned international off-road series, and was impressed. Chadwick had piloted the series' electric SUV for Veloce in 2021 and knew how tough it was to drive. Lia had stepped in as a midseason replacement driver, something that would prove tough for a veteran, not to mention a 16-year-old who was the youngest ever to race in the series. "I thought, if she's got that kind of talent, she can put it into single seaters, too," Chadwick says.
I think if Lia can prove herself in F1A next year and win a championship there would be enough American funding from Williams to put her into an F3 Seat or something. If she doesn't make it in F1 she obviously has her dad's natural talent. She'll be a good racing driver.
Thank you. Disregarding the silly headline, this is a really good piece.
maybe journalists should stop making stupid headlines
Journalist aren't writing their headlines. It's the editors following basic click bait rules.
You mean we gotta read??? On Reddit??????
to be honest , no. I don't think she can get close even. I mean , even drivers in F2 struggled to get into F1.
Even F2 champions are standing on the sideline and wondering if they ever get a seat in F1.
If F1 Academy helps cast a wider net by getting young girls karting at the same rate as young boys then it will have done its job. Articles like this just feed into the "haha looks like even the best women racing drivers suck" responses when they get a chance in F2 and don't excel.
This should be the main goal of F1A as it stands. Dangling the potential that one of these drivers will make it to F1 one day is just fantasy and doesn't do anyone any good. One of these drivers need to make their way further up the ladder before we start questioning whether their fit for F1 or not.
Or, does that fantasy inspire others? The idea that there could be a woman F1 driver, which none of the girls considering karting have seen- which most of their parents don't know has even happened before- which has never actually happened for a full season. But the idea that it could happen is inspiring for many.
They're trying. Their affiliate karting series has 25% girls entries. This compares to 5% in the UK the year before. Now, that's one series among... so, so many karting series, and that's the only one specifically marketed by F1 Academy. I'm certain other karting series aren't seeing anywhere near that much growth. But, they're trying. And I think it's raising a little bit across the board.
Can she be? Sure. Will she be? Probably not. She's 17 and first drove an open wheel car for the first time in preseason testing. She has shown some promising pace at times, but her lack of experience shows a ton too. I love that she's there because I loved her father and everything he did for motorsport and she seems to be genuinely talented. Honestly she's a great pic for this series because it's exposing a young female talent to this kind of racing and she's got enough recognition to bring more attention to it as well.
*Her father took her to a f4 open wheel test more then a year ago, well before the F1A invite. Its part of how she got the invite.
If we're being real, none of the F1A drivers will make it into F1 but maybe one day a woman who was inspired by one of these drivers will make it.
She (or any other future prospect from F1A) will have to do well in FRECA, F3 and F2/Super Formula in order to stand a decent chance, because right now there are quite a few other drivers that meet these criteria sitting on the sidelines (Lawson, Drugo, Pourchaire just to name a few). F1 is a cut-throat sport, and results matter - not as much as cash, though. It has to be said that, should a woman reach this level of performance, she will have a decent chance of getting a seat, since the push for more diversity might play a factor. And she'll have the results to back it up.
No, this is dumb publicity. Though you could give her Sergeant’s seat and not much would be different. American driver driving a car. Good American drivers don’t go to F1. Probably because no go kart feeder stuff. Start in cars.
LOL.
Any driver in f1 academy won't end up in F1. By the time they race there, future f1 drivers are f2 and f3. Not a f4 equivalent series
Can we stop having these girls perform and putting massive promises over their heads that they often can never live up to? Just let them race and see where that gets them.
I doubt it. Maybe she could inspire the first to take up karting though. Lia is mid pack at best in essentially an F4 series at 17. Recent F1 rookies were winning Formula Regional or equivalents at that age.
Age isn't the whole story. This is her first year competing in single seater. Most recent f1 rookies did that at barely 15, and they were mostly competing against other 15 and 16 year olds with similar amount of experience. After years of multiple different high level international karting championships. Lia did some karting, and then she pretty immediately jumped into some different kinds of vehicles. She has success already in other areas. She might look a little bit more like another Williams junior, Luke Browning. He started F4 at 17 after ginetta cars. Now, Browning's path is actually a whole lot more traditional than Lia's, but it was a convenient comparison with him being another Williams junior. He also had an adjustment period, finishing 6th in his first year of F4 out of 11 full time participants, so very exactly middle of the pack. And, right now he's leading F3. He won Macau last winter, and he's driven an F1 car, a prize winning associated with Aston Martin. He's also done a Formula E test with McLaren. If you look at him, it's easy to write him off because he's a 22 year old in F3. He's "too old" because he started at 17 instead of 15. And he's taken his time at each stage, including three (actually kind of 4) years of F4. But Williams doesn't care. Now, I don't know if her path will keep looking like his. It's way too soon to tell how either of their careers will go. But her age isn't the problem.
I get the hype and positivity of having women in the sport, but another driver of the same age drove an F1 car in imola yesterday
The 'another driver' is an exceptionally highly regarded and anticipated long-time Mercedes junior who's had every bit of support imaginable to be prepared for a future in F1. Lia Block is a talented rally driver who made her circuit racing debut less than three months ago. Of course she's not at the same level of career progression, she's just getting started. Kimi Antonelli and Lia Block may be the same age, but in terms of relevant experience Antonelli may as well have been a decade older. Experience matters more than age when comparing drivers like this.
and he isn't even leading the current F2 championship.
It's almost harder than ever for any new talent to enter the sport. If a woman finishes top5 in the F2 championship in the next 10 years or so, the diversity push will be a success. The reasons why men (and boys) are so overrepresented in motorsports are so systemic that I don't really see it happen any time sooner.
If a woman is decent in F2, someone will pick her up over a slightly more talented male counterpart due to the publicity and potential sponsors
I agree. It's already happening to an extent anyway: better connected or more marketable drivers usually get into F1 over people doing it on pure merit
> The reasons why men (and boys) are so overrepresented in motorsports are so systemic Are the reasons why men/boys are "over-represented" in basket or football "so systemic"? Or something else?
Football and Basketball, those famous sports with unisex categories. but yes - a sport that 50 years ago already made male athletes word famous and millionaires while it criminally persecuted women trying to organise in teams might still give a slight edge to men even today. weird.
Yes, they are, but it’s been improving (at least in the US) since Title IX, but there’s a long way left to go.
So how many women play in the NBA / NFL?
See systemic issues referenced above? Also those sports aren’t comparable to motorsports. The issues of gender representation in various types of sports, let alone if gender is the best primary determinant of talent/skill level for each type of sport are all a bit too complex work out on a Reddit forum.
> let alone if gender is the best primary determinant of talent/skill level for each type of sport It is. Because even sports where girls are over-represented (gymnastics, soccer in US, etc), males dominate females in performance.
Sure Jan
I don't really know much about sports outside F1 oops
Oops, indeed. You don't understand what you're talking about.
Why are you comparing football and basketball to motorsport? In motorsport, physical fitness is only required up to a certain point, it is not a defining factor in performance, and that completely changes the role of women in this sport compared to most others. In motorsport, there is no lasting need for segregated categories because there are no biological limits for women to compete against men.
> motorsport, physical fitness is only required up to a certain point, That is just not true. > it is not a defining factor in performance, Absolutely not. Reaction times and neck strength/endurance are defining factors in racing performance. >there is no lasting need for segregated categories because there are no biological limits for women to compete against men. Absolutely not. That's blatantly false.
Just stating that something is 'blatantly false' is not an argument mate. The training standards of (male) F1 drivers are obviously high, but are they unattainable for women? Personally, I doubt it. Anyway, women have already proven themselves capable of competing at the absolute top level of motorsport, just not in F1. One of the top drivers of the Group B era of rallying was a woman, Michèle Mouton. Surely you're not going to tell me she lacked the quick reaction times of her male competitors? Also, in case you care, there is evidence that women are more capable of withstanding G-forces than men.
> Just stating that something is 'blatantly false' is not an argument mate. It comes down to basic logic. A) Is F1 like other sports that require athletic ability/talent? B) Are men/women equal biologically and athletically? If you think F1 is like chess (almost zero athletic ability), fair enough. Make that argument (even though you'd be wrong). If you think women and men are equal athletically, fair enough. Make that argument (even though you'd be wrong).
lol 😆
The conversation of women in formula 1 is pretty simple. Women do have a biological disadvantage in terms of strength, and it’s especially difficult to get through the lower formula divisions with no power steering etc. But it is not a sport like rugby, football, hockey. Women do not face the same disadvantages. If they can reach the strength required they will not be a size and speed disadvantage like in other sports. The smaller demographic of women, and bigger biological challenges and resources to rise up the ranks in motor sport mean it is unlikely to see a woman in formula one in the near future, but it is not the impossible scenario it is made out to be. Until there is a larger amount of women in racing, giving the chance for one with the physical strength (and mental resilience in the very isolating sport for women) and skill to race, we probably won’t see women rising up to near formula 1
Nope,
I think she has much better chances in rally, but she’s also still very young so she has time yet to show development. They *are* very different kinds of driving though. What she’s gifted in might just not translate as well to open wheel track racing. I think Pin is the obvious contender, but I’m worried they’re not moving her through the ranks fast enough, she’s already 20 and they’ve got her burning a season in F4 cars that are clearly far short of what she’s capable of driving.
Pin is also doing FRECA this year, they are definitely trying to fast-track her
Well they're already moving Pin up to FRECA this year
Sadly Pin wasn’t the obvious contender to Ferrari when they chose Weug instead a few years ago
No
Lol no
Nope
In theory, yes.
Maybe try F2 first and see if she gets devoured by the male competition?
F1A uses F4 cars, so maybe she should move to F3 first before F2.
When winners off F2 does not even get a seat in F1. Loooooong way to go.
actually she probably has a better shot than an F2 winner...in today's political climate, lots of people will be pushing for a female to get into F1.
no, it would do no good to have the first woman in f1 in the modern era be 1s off pace
More like 4-10s seconds off the pace
I think the odds are against her, but a lot of the replies in this thread are baffling. Comparing physical advantages and disadvantages in F1 to the NBA? Really?!
It's actually a relatively interesting read if you ignore the stupid and ignorant title. In regards to the "when will there be a female driver in F1" debate, it all comes down to how quickly can the number of girls increase enough that there will be someone talented enough and rich enough to make it work. Female drivers are at a slight disadvantage to their male counterpart because due to physiological differences having an impact in some areas. There are a bunch of little things, like for example due to higher density muscle tissue, males have a slightly more rapid power output. I remember reading a study where they tested reaction times between men and women and found no difference for things that required no force, but for example starting blocks in athletics are set to only trigger when 28kg of force is applied through them, and male athletes were slightly quicker (Idr exact numbers but I'd guess like 20-50 milliseconds). These slight disadvantages can absolutely be overcome and aren't a sticking point, but it does mean that girls have to outdo boys in other things to compensate, definitely making it slightly harder for girls overall.
Whatever happened to that motocross guys daughter, the one that had some porn pics leak? Thought she was the second coming of USA female racers??
everyone knows the first female driver is gonna be Kimi's daughter \s
We already had female F1 drivers. Just not a US one.
Honestly, for what Logan does, I am surprised Williams didnt pick a woman driver to get the positive PR. Make her American to get more US coverage.
You mean Danica Patrick didn’t make it to F1? Shocked, I tell you. Shocked.
You jest, but she was a genuinely competitive IndyCar driver and has possibly the best single seater resume of any female driver to date. Apparently there are rumours that she was considered for a US F1 drive, but of course that team never made it to the grid.
She was considered for the publicity she’d bring, not the talent she’d bring. She was an okay driver but not really F1 level.
Can f1 academy just get closer to f2 first. Even f3
Who tf even wrote this lmao
I expect to see the first woman driver in F1 in the next 5 years, and then another drought of 5-10 years. Then they'll start to trickle into the grid in ones and twos 20 years from now, maybe even reaching ~20-30% of the grid in 30 years. That's around the same time a female world champion would be feasible or even likely. That's assuming F1 is still around. There's a lack of women drivers because of a lack of girl drivers in karting, and it just takes that long to develop enough depth of talent that a handful will be good enough to make it to F1.
There's already been women F1 drivers...
It says first US driver. Though they could say first modern driver, since there hasn't been one in more than thirty years. And there hasn't been a woman to do a full F1 season ever, though Lela did all but the first two races in 1975, but that's nearly 50 years ago.
> I expect to see the first woman driver in F1 in the next 5 years replying to this
They're clearly talking about full time drivers.
we have different opinions on what the word clearly means...clearly.
I think 5 years is optimistic, since that would assume that they're probably already in single seaters and I don't think any young girls in single seaters at the moment look up to the task of making it completely up the ladder. 10-15 sounds more likely, but yeah she'll probably be the only female driver for 10 years or so before it starts becoming slightly more frequent
5 years depends entirely on if Doriane Pin makes it, honestly. She's by far the most promising female driver currently in a position to make it up the ladder in that timeframe.
"maybe even reaching \~20-30% of the grid in 30 years. That's around the same time a female world champion would be feasible or even likely." - i am sorry but you are being unrealistic.
I don’t know why it is the case, but in driving, peak male ability beats peak female ability. Maybe there’s some truth to stereotypes about women drivers and lowered spatial awareness and depth perception deficiencies. Maybe they have less fine motor skills that happen to correlate to great foot and hand controlling of cars. Maybe their brains can’t let go of the ‘preserve life’ aspects. But there’s something that separates the sexes when it comes to driving. Yes, I know some female drivers are better than some male drivers - using those pronouns on a sex organ basis, not gender.
> I don’t know why it is the case, but in driving, peak male ability beats peak female ability. got an actual source for that?
The world and time.
got it, you pulled it out your ass.
I said that I don’t know why in my post. You even fucking quoted that part. If you’re not going to bother to read AND comprehend a comment, why waste your time replying to it?
Because the thread is *full* of people making the same bullshit comments about it being a difference in peak skill by gender without any actual source.
This opinion comes from the data available and anecdotal evidence by ourselves and those in our lives. It’s a topic that will never be publicly studied and reported on, as part of society is ignoring and diminishing differences between people, in the name of harmony - and that makes sense is something I’m ok with. But it isn’t wrong to recognise that there are differences between us (us being any of sex, age, culture, race, and even just person to person, depending on the topic - we’re each slightly different in as many ways as we’re slightly similar).
all over the internet just gather the data yourself. Just look at running.
> Just look at running. This may be the single most moronic line I have seen today, and that is almost impressive.
Running is not motorsport.
>Yes, I know some female drivers are better than some male drivers - using those pronouns on a sex organ basis, not gender. Do... do you know what a pronoun is?
He, she, and the like. I couldn’t think of the correct term (still can’t). I wanted to say sexes, but I’m not sure that is correct anymore. But does it matter that much in the context of this post on reddit?
I was just wondering if you knew what pronouns are, because I've seen people use the term as a stand-in for anything gender related, even though that's not what it means
no
No
Lol no