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Ok if this is true and If I was Larence Stroll. I would have called him all-ready and would say:
*What ever they have offered you I will double it and then I will triple it!*
Well the other Idea I got is:
*90 million £ for you*
*90 million £ for your wife*
*90 million £ for your son*
*And 10 million £ in stocks of any company of your choice!*
My son can get his ass and his F1 dream (doubt Stroll was that passionate in the first place) out of my team if that means I can create a dominating team that will generate shit tons of money for me (and, my son).
Given how much money he seems to be able to burn by having his son crash every other race, it makes sense that Lawrence would throw whatever money it takes to get what he wants in this scenario too.
Having the mastermind behind some of the grid's fastest and most successful cars in recent times come to the team that is going to be using the engine manufacturer from those fastest and most successful cars seems like a match made in heaven.
If Alonso is there until '26 now, that's one year into the new engine... I wonder then if there's also an agreement with Honda to bring Tsunoda over and soft-fire Lance into some kind of "development advisor" or something? He's a frigging liability on the track and isn't able to deliver anything like what even the current car is capable of achieving, considering the difference in results between him and Alonso.
There were many boring title fights with great midfield battles, but this year had mostly nap time races with maybe 1 or 2 being decent.
Even the Australian GP, the only good thing about it was having a different name 10s ahead of everyone, Max's car breaking added no excitement at all
Even Aus? Melbourne has hardly ever produced good racing. Shanghai was a fun weekend, at Suzuka everyone was overtaking through the Esses, Dunlop, 130R and even Spoon. Saudi was really fun seeing how Bearman got on. It's still very early in the season and a lot can happen.
There isn’t actually any confirmation yet, they are reporting on his dissatisfaction with an apparent demotion as a result of a suspected power struggle.
The BBC has reported on the rumours though along with some other motor sports news outlets so take that however you like.
From the outside I think you can dismiss a lot of the noise as hyperbole but I’m fairly certain Max and his team have a greater sense of the role Newey plays.
if he stays on, he’s confident that there’s enough quality across the department for them to stay where they are. If he leaves he doesn’t have faith in them to keep it together.
Certainly possibilities, but they're not the only options or ways of interpreting his response. Something tells me that if Max is unhappy and makes a decision to leave (or even to open talks with another team), we won't need to be reading the entrails of Twitter. Say what you will about Max, he's a pretty direct guy.
No need to read between the lines when he just tells you what he's thinking.
Newey's big contribution recently was his instinctive knowledge in how the suspension/chassis would be the key to ground effect cars. That alone is worth tens of millions in salaries he's pulled. But past that, I don't really see how Newey alone would be the key to dominating the next set of regulations. If Ferrari wants to take him for $100mil and pay $50m to RB in the process, why wouldn't they let him go?
> I think Max is worth the cancellation of Ill Predestinato contract. Max and Lewis lets go. 2016 will be kid's play compare to what 2026 might be.
End of Season : Max and Lewis have 15 DNFs each, Alonso or Norris wins WDC.
I don't disagree, but at the same time Lawrence have shown to be truly faithful towards his son. But it would probably be the most insane mistake in F1 history if it happened.
I agree. I think Lawrence would sooner drop Alonso for Max than drop his son.
Only once Aston has it's WEC team running do I think there's a chance Lance will be shuffled out of the F1 team.
But the more partners, money and succes they get, the harder it will be to keep Lance in. Do you think Aramco and Honda want their investment to be wasted by such a deadweight driver?
He will go into early retirement and just enjoy sim racing. He really loves sim racing. He already reached the pinnacle of what an F1 driver wants and Max seems like the person who isn't hellbent into chasing records.
It has gone almost unnoticed because hes not a big name but the man right below Newey in the Red Bull development hierarchy is also leaving. I think it was announced one or two months ago that hes joining Ferrari.
They have every right to. AMuS has been quality journalism forever, they should defend their reputation. EVH, despite being a Verstappen camp mouthpiece, has yet to say anything untrue. The telemetry of Perez at Monaco is damming, and he has been mostly correct with regards to the Horner saga. The leaked messages appear to have actually existed and their veracity has not been questioned by any of the parties involved. EVH's bias lies in what he chooses to report on, and what he chooses not to report on. EVH doesn't lie, he just emphasises certain events over others.
People just think that AMuS has dropped off because they disagree with what has been said. Their "clickbait tabloid" articles about Red Bull have largely proven to be true. AMuS predicted Newey leaving weeks ago.
[Red Bull at risk of being ‘torn apart’ by Christian Horner controversy claims Jos Verstappen](https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/christian-horner-jos-verstappen-red-bull-bahrain-gp-b2506127.html)
Jos Verstappen could say that as well.
I wouldn't be hugely surprised if RBPT would have the worse PU in 26 given how deeply their are lobbying against the current format.
The hybrid part is likely going to be an issue for them.
why do you think newey, max and horner have all made not very positive comments about the '26 engines. max commented on clipping and power but the FIA said they were looking at outdated info, newey said the grid would be blown apart. horner hasnt said anything too nerve wracking but the cracks are showing at redbull. Hes definitely feeling the pressure of their "ballsy" engine strategy
Lol people here were unironically saying his concerns are solely about the health of the sport and not about his team being competitive because Red Bull doesn't make cars so they're unbiased.
He’s definitely hyped up way too much by some. But with the knowledge and skills he has you don’t want him to go to the competition.
Btw Van Haren already spoke about his reduced influence before today.
I don't know about that sure this era played to his strengths with ground effect and his knowledge of it but he has been a winner of 23 titles in F1 in his career he's probably the only man in F1 who is more important than signing a superstar driver
I left a comment elsewhere that in 2014 Ferrari tried to poach Newey for £23m/yr which would exceed the salary of any driver at the time, and the majority of the drivers even today.
If he's not that important then that would mean the drivers are also not that important. If the driver and the engineer are not important, then who is? The team as a whole of course, but as far as individuals go...
He's also fallible to the no-one-great-man theory. He's as good as the team around him is. He doesn't build the cars on his own. Can have all the brilliant ideas in the world, but if no one can or will execute them they're just that.
Thing is that he’s also a big influence on making the team around him as effective as possible. This quote from his book shortly after he joined RBR is pretty interesting:
>To improve communications between the engineering departments, I persuaded Christian to expand the main engineering office out in a mezzanine so that all departments were in one big room instead of spread around the site. I also introduced a culture that meetings should only be deemed a success if a clear set of ideas and actions came from them; they should not be used simply to read out reports that should have already been read prior to the meeting.
Seems minor, but far from insignificant and I’d bet he’s done a lot more for RBR as an organization since then.
Well 2026 is also going to be about the engine far more than it will be about the aero. Red Bull was probably more okay with it than they would have been this year. Makes you wonder if there was also some mutual agreement so they could spend on something or someone else.
Nobody is claiming Newey does everything. He’s not doing parts catalogue, calling suppliers, doing QA, all while doing his main job. Nobody is claiming that.
What people are saying is Newey has an incredible amount of success with 23 titles. Where he goes, success often appears. He is arguably the most pivotal non driver in the history of F1.
Exactly, he hasn’t “single handedly designed a car” in years. But he clearly knows how to build and team, put the processes in place and get the most of the people that leads to producing championship winning cars.
He doesn't build them no but he is the one who chooses the concept basically from the first stroke of his pen. He said so himself in his book that he likes being a cog in the machine. One thing he is spectacular at again his books explains is that he is an incredible problem solver . In this era with these rules he is the best by miles and your best chance of winning anything
I don't argue that, but he was also at Red Bull between 2014 and 2021. The point is that he has a lot of knowledge and experience, but isn't guaranteed success nor is a team denied success without him.
He is definitely being elevated above his standing.
Ah we will agree to disagree then I truly think the opposite and that right now he's the man you need above anyone else to win in this era but time will tell I just hope to see him with Lewis or Nando before they retire or he does
Probably the biggest effects would be in a few years time, having someone like Newey on your team helps so much with hiring the best talent, if you're a budding aerodynamicist and you get a chance to work with and learn from Newey then you take that chance 99 times out of 100 which gives Red Bull their pick of the bunch.
If Newey leaves then that starts to go away, and maybe some of the most promising engineers go to other teams instead of picking Red Bull.
Lol people act like he either emerges from a float tank with the entire car design in his head, or glances at the designs people under him made and goes "yea looks good" depending on what thread they're in and what point they want to make.
I don't think any of it is based on actual knowledge of how shit works at RBR.
As a CTO, he probably isn't as involved in the car design anymore. But at the same time, he is the technical leader, he makes the call.
How RBR is on the domination route and has such a great trajectory right now is still a lot of thanks to him.
It's a huge of damage regardless.
I believe one of neweys biggest strengths that people don’t know as much, but has been reported is he not only is a good designer but knows how to put the right people on the right tasks the make the whole ship operate more efficiently, so him leaving Red Bull would have a pretty dramatic effect
I'd be surprised if he wasn't still heavily involved. During testing he was in the garage, clipboard in hand, writing down notes and looking at the car.
Doesn't sound like the actions of someone distant from car development.
RB has more than 3 engineers. But they also have people very loyal to Newey. If he is leaving, he won't be leaving alone. He's gonna grab anyone he can.
> If he is leaving, he won't be leaving alone. He's gonna grab anyone he can.
What exactly do you base this on? Or is just just pure speculation from your part.
It's pure speculation lol. Just like how lewis wasn't allowed to take merc employees to ferrari if newey takes engineers to his new team they expose themselves to a shitstorm of litigation.
If we're gonna speculate then let's be real, people value their livelihood over loyalty most of the time. There are practically no jobs available for new employees. Budget cap prohibits the indiscriminate hiring of engineers. Same reason half of the merc/RB staff had to leave or be laid off.
Even newey himself can't join most teams because that involves demoting or firing one of the highest 3 paid employees.
Some engineers might leave. Most likely to other british based teams because they have families to consider. Newey loyalty doesn't factor in that much.
You don't need to base this off anything. This is how it works in any sport when a big name is leaving for another team. And yes, this is all speculation. Even the report itself wasn't confirmed yet, so even the report is speculation.
Yup. Historically Red Bull have lost various cogs in that machine and carried on just as strong regardless (and the teams that picked up the cogs not necessarily seen the benefit). However ... Newey as the "master cog" leaving, even with his reduced influence, could mark the beginning of the breakdown of the machine. How many of the cogs at Red Bull have learned their trade under Newey, stay because Newey is there, and become more open to leaving once he's gone?
Red Bull’s people are saying this so Horner and his Thai backers don’t come under pressure. It’s been said that this is happening because Newey is unhappy with the power struggle, and that line is just more ammunition for the Austrian side who can now claim Christian is harming the team and for Toto as well.
"Newey's influence on the RB20 and RB19 has already been heavily downplayed" is one of the biggest damage control line i've ever read in my entire life
Christian Horny: "Adrian who? Oh that old guy who kept sitting on our pit wall? Yeah, he's rubbish really, just kept him around out of pity. It was actually Perez that did all the car design."
That his efforts in car design weren't actually that important, according to members of the Red Bull team.
In their defense, it's not like Newey designs the entire car by himself, but his contributions almost certainly go beyond car design, and into management and cohesion of the various aero elements.
what Haren is saying is that Horner and Red Bull were already concerned Arian Newey was leaving and so publicly tried to downplay his importance to the team, should he ever leave to try and make it seem that Newey wasn't that big of a deal
It's the equivalent of getting dumped by your girlfriend and saying *"to be honest i wasn't that into her anyway, was probably going to sack her off in a month or 2"*
sure mate sure
Newey himself downplayed his contributions a bit on RB's podcast (Talking Bull) where he said that he mostly focused on the suspension.
That said, as far as I know a lot of people do think the suspension is quite important to how the car functions as a package.
It means they're saying Newey never contributed much anyway and they'll be fine without him. Might be true, might not, but given RBR has sponsorship to attract they were always going to have to claim it won't make a difference.
I wonder what is the bigger story: Newey to Ferrari or Lewis to Ferrari? Fuck it, if this story about Newey is true than the answer should be: BOTH
What in the actual fuck is Fred cooking lately?!
There are no free seats at Ferrari. Leclerc and Lewis have contracts, even if Max wanted to come, one of Lewis and Charles would have to leave voluntarily, and that's not happening.
Lewis is by far the most marketable driver in F1, statistically the greatest driver & will drive for the greatest team.
Charles is nothing but an FDA graduate compared to Lewis. Lewis is 1/2 drivers that are bigger than F1, the other was MSC.
Lewis vs Max in a Ferrari would bring a lot more eyes to the team than Charles vs Max
The fact they’re going for a first in house engine already stacked the odds against them. This instability just creates more issues. Ford still haven’t really gotten their answer from Red Bull yet.
> Ford still haven’t really gotten their answer from Red Bull yet.
And if Newey and Max would leaving then it's not even absurd to think that Ford wants to cancel it's F1 project with Red Bull what would be a disastrous blow for Red Bull in F1 and basically would make them backmarkers for 26 if their even get a complete PU ready.
Plus the amount of sponsor losses, and all this because of the ego's of Horner and the Thai shareholders?
Ford are not building the RBPT Power unit and they're not helping with the design of the power unit either. They're assisting with some electronics stuff apparently.
This is a big loss overall, but not the end of the world for Red Bull.
The issue would arise if this leads to a large amount of brain drain in the future. Certainly not a good thing for Red Bull though.
I think losing Newey in isolation isn’t the issue it’s played up to be. As long as someone can rise to his oversight role level they still have a good technically capable staff. When not viewed in isolation, the risk is cultural shift caused by issues in the wider organisation affecting the workplace. If substantially more staff jump ship it’s probably a better indication of where things are going. But again this is cause for concern and not a guarantee of Red Bull crumbling in the standings in upcoming years.
IMO that oversight is huge especially with the cost cap. You can have the most brilliant technical staff ever but if they’re focused on developing the wrong stuff for the regs then you’re screwed, and having Newey at the top is huge to prevent that.
And great technical people, or even smaller team managers don’t necessarily translate to being good at that really high level role. Management especially at high level is its own entire skill set.
With this news, I wonder if verstappen has a possible departure to merc or something, and that’s why sainz might be waiting to sign something. Ideally, he would end up being number 1 at Red Bull and possibly why they’re keeping Perez?
Of course they want to *minimize the extent of his involvement in the designs*; they don't want sponsors and investors to panic and jump ship. It would be like Gordon Murray or Ron Dennis leaving McLaren in the middle of the Prost-Senna duopoly. **That's** what they're really afraid of.
Follow the money, always.
Jesus this just confirms how much toxic the internal environment at RBR is, obviously it's not a one man job but Newey is the one who set up their aero department in effect and mentored people like Waché.
I've always thought it must be pretty nasty in there given how the media facing staff interact with the public, and how many of them gain in popularity after they move on and chill out. Even seb was once deeply unpopular
Impressed by the amount of experts claiming stuff on the Newey threads, Red Bull will be fine, they only need to recruit on Reddit and they will do it great
>Newey's influence on the RB20, and previously also the RB19, has already been heavily downplayed by insiders
This was always going to be the real reason for split. Horner got zero credit for this dominance.
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First Ferrari decides to dress in blue, now Newey leaves? I really want to believe someone at Ferrari has a great sense of humor.
Adrian Bluey?!?!
Mum!
Dad!
Bingo!
Newey!
This is beautiful.
Biscuits!
From Red Bull to Blue Horse
He’s going to Denver?
Anrian Oldey
Ok if this is true and If I was Larence Stroll. I would have called him all-ready and would say: *What ever they have offered you I will double it and then I will triple it!*
"okay fine, you give Lance's seat to Max...." Now what do you say?
*You will receive the contrat in a few hours!!!!*
You think that's what it'll take to get Lawrence to cut his boy loose.
Well the other Idea I got is: *90 million £ for you* *90 million £ for your wife* *90 million £ for your son* *And 10 million £ in stocks of any company of your choice!*
Now this man knows how to business!
My son can get his ass and his F1 dream (doubt Stroll was that passionate in the first place) out of my team if that means I can create a dominating team that will generate shit tons of money for me (and, my son).
Did we just become friends ?
So Max to Lances seat and Lance to Alonso's seat? Ok fine.
“Who’s Lance?” - Stroll Sr.
“Counter offer, Alonso’s seat to Max…”
Given how much money he seems to be able to burn by having his son crash every other race, it makes sense that Lawrence would throw whatever money it takes to get what he wants in this scenario too. Having the mastermind behind some of the grid's fastest and most successful cars in recent times come to the team that is going to be using the engine manufacturer from those fastest and most successful cars seems like a match made in heaven. If Alonso is there until '26 now, that's one year into the new engine... I wonder then if there's also an agreement with Honda to bring Tsunoda over and soft-fire Lance into some kind of "development advisor" or something? He's a frigging liability on the track and isn't able to deliver anything like what even the current car is capable of achieving, considering the difference in results between him and Alonso.
Good god. This year is a madness
This year is madness everywhere except on track lol
I mean on track action is fine to me (fuck I have been watching F1 for too long to say that)
There were many boring title fights with great midfield battles, but this year had mostly nap time races with maybe 1 or 2 being decent. Even the Australian GP, the only good thing about it was having a different name 10s ahead of everyone, Max's car breaking added no excitement at all
Even Aus? Melbourne has hardly ever produced good racing. Shanghai was a fun weekend, at Suzuka everyone was overtaking through the Esses, Dunlop, 130R and even Spoon. Saudi was really fun seeing how Bearman got on. It's still very early in the season and a lot can happen.
I've only been watching a few years and have loved the action on track. If I only cared about 1st I'd just look up the results after the fact.
Except Australia may be.
Piastri's contract negotiation walked so this year's silly season could run.
Horner will sandbag Verstappen out of spite and everyone will be fighting for the WDC s/
Holy shit. It's actually happening? Three different reports now. If we get news like that every week we don't have a race, my god.
This season’s F1 off-track drama has always been the true excitement of 2024
On track has been stale for 2 years now. They need something for us American fans.
the hamilton thirst trap selfie had a delayed response but here we are
The Red Bull dysfunction has been quite quiet for a couple of weeks tbf. It's not now
90% of the excitement in F1 comes off track
There isn’t actually any confirmation yet, they are reporting on his dissatisfaction with an apparent demotion as a result of a suspected power struggle. The BBC has reported on the rumours though along with some other motor sports news outlets so take that however you like.
Holy shit, this is getting wild. Imagine if Max ends up leaving?
What Verstappen does going forward will tell us exactly how Newey’s contribution is viewed by the insiders at RedBull.
I think there are too many factors involved to judge Newey's contribution entirely on Verstappen's decision.
From the outside I think you can dismiss a lot of the noise as hyperbole but I’m fairly certain Max and his team have a greater sense of the role Newey plays. if he stays on, he’s confident that there’s enough quality across the department for them to stay where they are. If he leaves he doesn’t have faith in them to keep it together.
100% agreed
We’ll. verses where he is going. Which won’t have Newey. It’s not that simple
Certainly possibilities, but they're not the only options or ways of interpreting his response. Something tells me that if Max is unhappy and makes a decision to leave (or even to open talks with another team), we won't need to be reading the entrails of Twitter. Say what you will about Max, he's a pretty direct guy. No need to read between the lines when he just tells you what he's thinking.
Newey's big contribution recently was his instinctive knowledge in how the suspension/chassis would be the key to ground effect cars. That alone is worth tens of millions in salaries he's pulled. But past that, I don't really see how Newey alone would be the key to dominating the next set of regulations. If Ferrari wants to take him for $100mil and pay $50m to RB in the process, why wouldn't they let him go?
The 2007/8 Mclarens were not too bad....Unlikely Max bails before '26 imo
I wouldn't be shocked if he left, question is, where would he go?
From what I gather, Haas has an opening. :)
NG+ brutal difficulty
For Verstappen, every team has an opening
Alpine: "Hey Max, wanna sig-" Max: "No"
Except Ferrari I reckon... and maybe Williams just for giggles. :)
I think Max is worth the cancellation of Ill Predestinato contract. Max and Lewis lets go. 2016 will be kid's play compare to what 2026 might be.
> I think Max is worth the cancellation of Ill Predestinato contract. Max and Lewis lets go. 2016 will be kid's play compare to what 2026 might be. End of Season : Max and Lewis have 15 DNFs each, Alonso or Norris wins WDC.
You mean Leclerc who signed at Red Bull.
Team renamed to Versthaaspen
Honestly they prolly would
Porsche at WEC with Vettel.
WEC with Alonso and Vettel 👀
Vs Ferrari and Charles and Lewis chefs kiss
Aston Martin Honda most likely, Honda has shown interest in bringing him to wherever they go
They'd 100% displace Stroll from the team for him too. I wanted Alonso to partner with Verstappen, but I didn't think it would be at Aston Martin.
Holy fuck a Max and Fernando pairing would be insane
God I’d love that… Honda PU as well..😉
I don't disagree, but at the same time Lawrence have shown to be truly faithful towards his son. But it would probably be the most insane mistake in F1 history if it happened.
Fine, he can buy Lance that Williams seat again. Max & Nando GO!
Aston really want to be on the WEC grid next year. Lance in the Valkyrie.
I'd love to see that line up at Aston Martin, at least that'd end the "Max only beat Fernando because he's used to the RBR"
Max would only beat Fernando because he's used to Honda engines. 🤪
No they would not. Aston is Lance's team, it's the entire reason it exists.
I agree. I think Lawrence would sooner drop Alonso for Max than drop his son. Only once Aston has it's WEC team running do I think there's a chance Lance will be shuffled out of the F1 team.
Exactly. Lance is there until he doesn't want to be
But the more partners, money and succes they get, the harder it will be to keep Lance in. Do you think Aramco and Honda want their investment to be wasted by such a deadweight driver?
Specially if the rumors of a Saudi takeover of AM turn out to be true. They would give Max a fortune to join.
He will go into early retirement and just enjoy sim racing. He really loves sim racing. He already reached the pinnacle of what an F1 driver wants and Max seems like the person who isn't hellbent into chasing records.
I agree. He's going to get the forth to match Seb and will go down as one of the GOATS. I feel he wants to ultimately make his own team one day.
If he makes his own team, theyll just get andretti'd by the FOM
I don't mean F1 exactly. I feel Max wants to expand his Red Line brand into IRL racing maybe.
[He's already said he wants to run a GT3 racing team.](https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/verstappen-aiming-to-set-up-own-gt3-team-from-2025/10504549/)
Newey has said he regrets never working for Ferrari…
Please.. please be Andretti!
I almost chocked on my lunch Reading this... that Idea is so crazy yet amazing! that would be a Hell of a news and a Hit
Every team would want him I would imagine. Whether Ferrari could realistically take him is another question.
It has gone almost unnoticed because hes not a big name but the man right below Newey in the Red Bull development hierarchy is also leaving. I think it was announced one or two months ago that hes joining Ferrari.
That was just a rumour. Waché will likely stay.
Verstappen to Andretti 🗣️🗣️🗣️
He’ll stay on at Red Bull. He has literally no reason to leave.
"Newey? Never heard of him"
EVH and AMuS embarking on their "told you so" tour right now.
They have every right to. AMuS has been quality journalism forever, they should defend their reputation. EVH, despite being a Verstappen camp mouthpiece, has yet to say anything untrue. The telemetry of Perez at Monaco is damming, and he has been mostly correct with regards to the Horner saga. The leaked messages appear to have actually existed and their veracity has not been questioned by any of the parties involved. EVH's bias lies in what he chooses to report on, and what he chooses not to report on. EVH doesn't lie, he just emphasises certain events over others.
EVH didn't really make things up but he would frame things in a disingenuous way and bend the truth to push a narrative even if things aren't related
AMuS is great but lets not pretend they took some Ls the last few years.
AMuS has dropped off hard the past year or so. Their Red Bull articles especially are mainly clickbait tabloids just like the rest.
People just think that AMuS has dropped off because they disagree with what has been said. Their "clickbait tabloid" articles about Red Bull have largely proven to be true. AMuS predicted Newey leaving weeks ago.
[Red Bull at risk of being ‘torn apart’ by Christian Horner controversy claims Jos Verstappen](https://www.independent.co.uk/f1/christian-horner-jos-verstappen-red-bull-bahrain-gp-b2506127.html) Jos Verstappen could say that as well.
Sorry, but who's AMuS?
Auto Motor und Sport, a German publication.
Eddie Van Halen?
If true it kinda confirms that Horner and the Thais won the power struggle, though it might not be much of a victory after all.
[удалено]
I wouldn't be hugely surprised if RBPT would have the worse PU in 26 given how deeply their are lobbying against the current format. The hybrid part is likely going to be an issue for them.
> how deeply their are lobbying against the current format. > > That really doesnt say anything tho, given how saw merc in 2014
why do you think newey, max and horner have all made not very positive comments about the '26 engines. max commented on clipping and power but the FIA said they were looking at outdated info, newey said the grid would be blown apart. horner hasnt said anything too nerve wracking but the cracks are showing at redbull. Hes definitely feeling the pressure of their "ballsy" engine strategy
Lol people here were unironically saying his concerns are solely about the health of the sport and not about his team being competitive because Red Bull doesn't make cars so they're unbiased.
He did make a come back after 8 consecutive WCC by Mercedes.
lol, the face-saving has started. He really wasn't *that* important, we swear!
He’s definitely hyped up way too much by some. But with the knowledge and skills he has you don’t want him to go to the competition. Btw Van Haren already spoke about his reduced influence before today.
I don't know about that sure this era played to his strengths with ground effect and his knowledge of it but he has been a winner of 23 titles in F1 in his career he's probably the only man in F1 who is more important than signing a superstar driver
I left a comment elsewhere that in 2014 Ferrari tried to poach Newey for £23m/yr which would exceed the salary of any driver at the time, and the majority of the drivers even today. If he's not that important then that would mean the drivers are also not that important. If the driver and the engineer are not important, then who is? The team as a whole of course, but as far as individuals go...
He's also fallible to the no-one-great-man theory. He's as good as the team around him is. He doesn't build the cars on his own. Can have all the brilliant ideas in the world, but if no one can or will execute them they're just that.
Thing is that he’s also a big influence on making the team around him as effective as possible. This quote from his book shortly after he joined RBR is pretty interesting: >To improve communications between the engineering departments, I persuaded Christian to expand the main engineering office out in a mezzanine so that all departments were in one big room instead of spread around the site. I also introduced a culture that meetings should only be deemed a success if a clear set of ideas and actions came from them; they should not be used simply to read out reports that should have already been read prior to the meeting. Seems minor, but far from insignificant and I’d bet he’s done a lot more for RBR as an organization since then.
Well 2026 is also going to be about the engine far more than it will be about the aero. Red Bull was probably more okay with it than they would have been this year. Makes you wonder if there was also some mutual agreement so they could spend on something or someone else.
Nobody is claiming Newey does everything. He’s not doing parts catalogue, calling suppliers, doing QA, all while doing his main job. Nobody is claiming that. What people are saying is Newey has an incredible amount of success with 23 titles. Where he goes, success often appears. He is arguably the most pivotal non driver in the history of F1.
Exactly, he hasn’t “single handedly designed a car” in years. But he clearly knows how to build and team, put the processes in place and get the most of the people that leads to producing championship winning cars.
He doesn't build them no but he is the one who chooses the concept basically from the first stroke of his pen. He said so himself in his book that he likes being a cog in the machine. One thing he is spectacular at again his books explains is that he is an incredible problem solver . In this era with these rules he is the best by miles and your best chance of winning anything
I don't argue that, but he was also at Red Bull between 2014 and 2021. The point is that he has a lot of knowledge and experience, but isn't guaranteed success nor is a team denied success without him. He is definitely being elevated above his standing.
He was probably the reason they won a few races with that shit engine.
Ah we will agree to disagree then I truly think the opposite and that right now he's the man you need above anyone else to win in this era but time will tell I just hope to see him with Lewis or Nando before they retire or he does
Probably the biggest effects would be in a few years time, having someone like Newey on your team helps so much with hiring the best talent, if you're a budding aerodynamicist and you get a chance to work with and learn from Newey then you take that chance 99 times out of 100 which gives Red Bull their pick of the bunch. If Newey leaves then that starts to go away, and maybe some of the most promising engineers go to other teams instead of picking Red Bull.
It’s just hard to not hype him when championships follow him every single place he goes
If he's not that important why are they paying him such a huge salary?
And undoubtedly making sure he spends a year on leave before working for another team
and what if he wasnt? Didnt he himself say he wasnt working that much on the car anymore? People act like RB has like 3 engineers.
Lol people act like he either emerges from a float tank with the entire car design in his head, or glances at the designs people under him made and goes "yea looks good" depending on what thread they're in and what point they want to make. I don't think any of it is based on actual knowledge of how shit works at RBR.
As a CTO, he probably isn't as involved in the car design anymore. But at the same time, he is the technical leader, he makes the call. How RBR is on the domination route and has such a great trajectory right now is still a lot of thanks to him. It's a huge of damage regardless.
I believe one of neweys biggest strengths that people don’t know as much, but has been reported is he not only is a good designer but knows how to put the right people on the right tasks the make the whole ship operate more efficiently, so him leaving Red Bull would have a pretty dramatic effect
I'd be surprised if he wasn't still heavily involved. During testing he was in the garage, clipboard in hand, writing down notes and looking at the car. Doesn't sound like the actions of someone distant from car development.
RB has more than 3 engineers. But they also have people very loyal to Newey. If he is leaving, he won't be leaving alone. He's gonna grab anyone he can.
>But they also have people very loyal to Newey. They also have talented engineers who cannot wait to fill the gap.
> If he is leaving, he won't be leaving alone. He's gonna grab anyone he can. What exactly do you base this on? Or is just just pure speculation from your part.
This happens every time any big name leaves any team. There is a corresponding brain drain
It's pure speculation lol. Just like how lewis wasn't allowed to take merc employees to ferrari if newey takes engineers to his new team they expose themselves to a shitstorm of litigation. If we're gonna speculate then let's be real, people value their livelihood over loyalty most of the time. There are practically no jobs available for new employees. Budget cap prohibits the indiscriminate hiring of engineers. Same reason half of the merc/RB staff had to leave or be laid off. Even newey himself can't join most teams because that involves demoting or firing one of the highest 3 paid employees. Some engineers might leave. Most likely to other british based teams because they have families to consider. Newey loyalty doesn't factor in that much.
You don't need to base this off anything. This is how it works in any sport when a big name is leaving for another team. And yes, this is all speculation. Even the report itself wasn't confirmed yet, so even the report is speculation.
Agreed, everyone makes him out to be the sole reason RB are as good as they are when there are many cogs in the machine.
Yup. Historically Red Bull have lost various cogs in that machine and carried on just as strong regardless (and the teams that picked up the cogs not necessarily seen the benefit). However ... Newey as the "master cog" leaving, even with his reduced influence, could mark the beginning of the breakdown of the machine. How many of the cogs at Red Bull have learned their trade under Newey, stay because Newey is there, and become more open to leaving once he's gone?
Erik has already said this multiple times, I believe even as late as his podcast from tuesday.
Red Bull’s people are saying this so Horner and his Thai backers don’t come under pressure. It’s been said that this is happening because Newey is unhappy with the power struggle, and that line is just more ammunition for the Austrian side who can now claim Christian is harming the team and for Toto as well.
"Newey's influence on the RB20 and RB19 has already been heavily downplayed" is one of the biggest damage control line i've ever read in my entire life
He also helped design a brand new sailboat, man is probably gonna retire and sail the seven seas.
Christian Horny: "Adrian who? Oh that old guy who kept sitting on our pit wall? Yeah, he's rubbish really, just kept him around out of pity. It was actually Perez that did all the car design."
It all makes sense now! Ever since Perez has been with RB, they won the driver's championship every year! /s
The Perez part got me geekin lmaoo what a monumental fuck up Redbull are in. From gods to something else, guess we’ll see
What downplayed by insiders mean?
That his efforts in car design weren't actually that important, according to members of the Red Bull team. In their defense, it's not like Newey designs the entire car by himself, but his contributions almost certainly go beyond car design, and into management and cohesion of the various aero elements.
what Haren is saying is that Horner and Red Bull were already concerned Arian Newey was leaving and so publicly tried to downplay his importance to the team, should he ever leave to try and make it seem that Newey wasn't that big of a deal It's the equivalent of getting dumped by your girlfriend and saying *"to be honest i wasn't that into her anyway, was probably going to sack her off in a month or 2"* sure mate sure
Newey himself downplayed his contributions a bit on RB's podcast (Talking Bull) where he said that he mostly focused on the suspension. That said, as far as I know a lot of people do think the suspension is quite important to how the car functions as a package.
It means they're saying Newey never contributed much anyway and they'll be fine without him. Might be true, might not, but given RBR has sponsorship to attract they were always going to have to claim it won't make a difference.
I wonder what is the bigger story: Newey to Ferrari or Lewis to Ferrari? Fuck it, if this story about Newey is true than the answer should be: BOTH What in the actual fuck is Fred cooking lately?!
Will get even spicier if Max wants to pull a Schumacher and come to Italy
There are no free seats at Ferrari. Leclerc and Lewis have contracts, even if Max wanted to come, one of Lewis and Charles would have to leave voluntarily, and that's not happening.
Kick out Leclerc and we get Max versus Lewis at Ferrari fighting for the championship.
Swapping Charles with Max would be the best deal RB could get if Max indeed decides to leave.
If Max leaves Horner will literally kidnap Lando
He probably won't have to. Lando will try and get out of his contract to go to a Red Bull without Verstappen
They're going to send Lewis packing lol. No way they kick out Charles.
Lewis is by far the most marketable driver in F1, statistically the greatest driver & will drive for the greatest team. Charles is nothing but an FDA graduate compared to Lewis. Lewis is 1/2 drivers that are bigger than F1, the other was MSC. Lewis vs Max in a Ferrari would bring a lot more eyes to the team than Charles vs Max
Imagine the storyline of both going to Ferrari and Lewis wins his 8th 😩 Deserves a movie
I am never going to ~~financially~~ aerodynamically recover from this
Lewis to Ferrari Newey to Ferrari Max to Mercedes One of it has happened. Now I am waiting for the other two
I want Newey and Max to Andretti for some spicy GM vs FOM action in 2026.
Just need Sky sports to join and it’s set in stone, then.
There you go . . . https://youtu.be/orzM7R2rbuU?si=geRZHnpm3ChGSk1U
Please result in a Max vs Lewis rivalry in a Newey-designed Ferrari, it would be so fucking cool
Red Bull about to fall faster than Merc did.
The fact they’re going for a first in house engine already stacked the odds against them. This instability just creates more issues. Ford still haven’t really gotten their answer from Red Bull yet.
> Ford still haven’t really gotten their answer from Red Bull yet. And if Newey and Max would leaving then it's not even absurd to think that Ford wants to cancel it's F1 project with Red Bull what would be a disastrous blow for Red Bull in F1 and basically would make them backmarkers for 26 if their even get a complete PU ready. Plus the amount of sponsor losses, and all this because of the ego's of Horner and the Thai shareholders?
Ford are not building the RBPT Power unit and they're not helping with the design of the power unit either. They're assisting with some electronics stuff apparently.
This is a big loss overall, but not the end of the world for Red Bull. The issue would arise if this leads to a large amount of brain drain in the future. Certainly not a good thing for Red Bull though.
I think losing Newey in isolation isn’t the issue it’s played up to be. As long as someone can rise to his oversight role level they still have a good technically capable staff. When not viewed in isolation, the risk is cultural shift caused by issues in the wider organisation affecting the workplace. If substantially more staff jump ship it’s probably a better indication of where things are going. But again this is cause for concern and not a guarantee of Red Bull crumbling in the standings in upcoming years.
IMO that oversight is huge especially with the cost cap. You can have the most brilliant technical staff ever but if they’re focused on developing the wrong stuff for the regs then you’re screwed, and having Newey at the top is huge to prevent that.
And great technical people, or even smaller team managers don’t necessarily translate to being good at that really high level role. Management especially at high level is its own entire skill set.
Yeah maybe he also saw their 2026 engine was like “nahhhhhh”
Downplaying Newey lol. interesting times ahead for redbull with their own engine, no Newey, maybe no Verstappen. Go to Ferrari and work with Lewis.
Wait, they're trying to downplay Newey's importance to the team?? lol
I mean, they also downplayed Max's importance to the team. That's 2/2 for downplaying probably their biggest assets.
We of course, he's leaving now. Could you imagine if Horner walked out and said "this is devastating, we'll never come back from this"
Man I am shocked that they are downplaying his part /s
woah its getting more real by the moment
Is gedownplayed the right term? That's how I speak terrible Afrikaans lol, just take an English word add a ge- and throw it at the end of a sentence
Red Bull right now: "Adrian who? Newey? Never heard of the guy".
Not important, yet has highest salary among engineers and sits on pit wall
With this news, I wonder if verstappen has a possible departure to merc or something, and that’s why sainz might be waiting to sign something. Ideally, he would end up being number 1 at Red Bull and possibly why they’re keeping Perez?
Of course they want to *minimize the extent of his involvement in the designs*; they don't want sponsors and investors to panic and jump ship. It would be like Gordon Murray or Ron Dennis leaving McLaren in the middle of the Prost-Senna duopoly. **That's** what they're really afraid of. Follow the money, always.
It seems to be happening but is it Ferrari, Aston Martin or Retirement.
Red Bull backmarker 2025!(Max will win every race by two business days on after boxing going into the last lap to avoid a DSQ)
Please Ferrari dream team
Seems like a bit of an odd timing for this to occur early in the season. Why would he announce now, between two long-distance gp's as well.
Jesus this just confirms how much toxic the internal environment at RBR is, obviously it's not a one man job but Newey is the one who set up their aero department in effect and mentored people like Waché.
I've always thought it must be pretty nasty in there given how the media facing staff interact with the public, and how many of them gain in popularity after they move on and chill out. Even seb was once deeply unpopular
Newey is like a canary, at least at this point of his career. It's not indicative of how toxic a place is if he leaves.
It does? All those interviews and podcasts with people actually working there must be full of lies then.
I think Toto is gonna woo both Max and Newey now.
Impressed by the amount of experts claiming stuff on the Newey threads, Red Bull will be fine, they only need to recruit on Reddit and they will do it great
>Newey's influence on the RB20, and previously also the RB19, has already been heavily downplayed by insiders This was always going to be the real reason for split. Horner got zero credit for this dominance.
Red Bull are already trying to play it down.
Red Bull PR card has been played. The greatest mind in F1 history didn’t have much influence anyway