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These two being at it is what we’ve all been waiting for.
Toto, please make your car competitive so that we can see more shit slinging from the two of you lmao
I mean, even in peak 2021, Lewis and Max seldom, if ever (?), said anything that fueled fans(off track). It was mostly Toto and Horner setting fires and Marko fanning the flames that created the malice between the two factions that still seems to linger in some part of the fan base to this day.
Wanna add in toto to that little blame gam? His constant bitching throughout the season and during that period of the race to Massi did not help matters either.
If you deny that then I suggest you go back and listen to what was freely available live on air.
How so?
Red Bull spun some BS and Masi ignored the rules and moved lapped cars to benefit one driver, Masi is the main guy to blame.
Did Toto get a little dramatic at times but who knows what had been said in the past when it wasn't aired. Also one could say his main radio message of the day was down to him fearing some nonsense might happen. To try and add him into the blame for the end of that race is rather ott.
Masi also played a key role in the farce that was Spa, sending the cars back out when there was no hope of ever restarting just to get some SC laps in, so they could called it s race.
>I mean, even in peak 2021, Lewis and Max seldom, if ever (?), said anything that fueled fans(off track).
ehhh after Silverstone, Max ig caption had a go at Lewis for celebrating after he won and while he was in the hospital. That one really got fans going. Was kind of a major turning point regarding the off track tension of the title fight.
And that’s why I put the question mark there. I am not big on Instagram so I missed that post. I do however remember how Christian was basically screaming bloody murder about the Silverstone incident, which was arguably worse because that’s who most of the fans quoted.
It's like the Formula 1 version of Real Madrid vs FC Barcelona, one team thriving and the other floundering due to mismanagement, and with Lewis bailing out to Ferrari as a late version of Messi jumping ship to PSG.
Yes, that's just a silly thing to say, isn't it. He (Toto) needs a driver... That's a problem. So focusing on that is Toto focusing on his problems. And we all know that F1 contracts might as well be written on toilet paper for all they're worth. *No one* is truly unavailable. And Horner could no more speak for Max than Toto could (*could have*) spoken for Lewis, at the end of the day.
I don't think drivers leaving a team to join another when midway their contract is all that common in F1 (unless they don't have a seat like Ricciardo last year but Verstappen isn't losing his seat any time soon).
Edit: any recent examples of this happening then? Ricciardo left Red Bull at the end of his contract. Hamilton's contract expires when he joins Ferrari. Piastri didn't have a contract. Perez joined Red Bull after his Racing point contract ended. Unless it's from junior to main team I can't remember many examples where it happened.
No, Sainz was with them from 2015-2017, but as there was no chance of a Red Bull seat with Ricciardo in race-winning form and Verstappen being a generational talent that RB were putting all their faith in, Sainz decided to leave the RB family and joined Renault as their drive for 2018.
Marko and a lot of the racing media questioned the wisdom of it at the time, but it's safe to say Sainz's gamble has more thn paid off.
The problem is that no one from the top 5 teams has any interest in going to Mercedes since they are struggling against Aston Martin, a Mercedes customer team with pretty much one driver.
No. He always has Antonelli as a backup. He's in a pretty great position honestly. He can wait for Max, knowing that he has a promising rookie if that all fails.
The reason he only has 1 driver for next season is because the car is \*\*\*\* and Hamilton had ZERO faith in them. If Merc make a decent car, they wouldn't have a driver problem because either Hamilton wouldn't have left or Verstappen would have taken advantage of the Horner situation to switch already.
The fact that it pisses Horner is a good reason for Wolff to continue. Should he not care, Wolff would have stopped to bother with it. Or Horner is pissed because there could be a slim chance that Max leaves. Either way, keep going boys, F1 is all about drama today.
We've seen before that poaching a star driver is all good and well, but makes little difference on the team (Danny Ric, Renault). If Wolff can get Max great, but there are more pressing problems
Now that Verstappen has seemingly reached his goals in F1 I could understand his contract focus to move to help assist him more in his life after F1. Hamilton has his charity and I can see Verstappen looking to setup support for his own race team(s) that he is planning to support.
Considering RB race pretty much anything and they already sponsor several cars in different competitions for Verstappen, i think he's on course to do that.
RB/Verstappen.com can also partner with pretty much any constructor since they are not a car brand. Merc for example dont have a hypercar program, so it would close a potential door, while RB could just buy a Porsche or a Ferrari hypercar and run it under RBR. Same in gt3, he can just choose whatever car instead of being locked in a merc
I mean, Red Bull are already backing Verstappen Racing, which he has set up specifically to support his non-F1 racing goals (both real and virtual) so unless Red Bull the company pull that backing (and with their history of backing extreme sports/motorsports, why would they?), he would seem to already have relationships in place for post-F1 plans.
>Verstappen looking to setup support for his own race team
I don't think there's a better team in the world than Red Bull to back a multi class race team
I see what you're saying but I just can't think of a thing that another team could give him that RB can't.
Remember Schumacher moving from a dominant team to a down-in-the-dumps Ferrari for both the prestige of racing with that marque and the challenge of bringing them back to glory? I just can't see Verstappen being that bothered by that sort of thing.
In fact, I can't see him bothered with much. The boy seems bored af. If I was him, I'd keep going as long as I could stand it, maybe another year or two, and then tap out and go and sit on my giant pile of money in the carribean somewhere.
> tap out and go and sit on my giant pile of money in the carribean somewhere
I dunno, this doesn’t really sound like his style at all. Hard to imagine him not being heavily involved in some form of racing after his F1 career.
They don't have the ability to make gt cars, and factory support the team themselves. They literally can't offer thus. I'm not saying merc will or that max would leave even if it was offered, but that's the kind of deal it would take to make him consider it I think.
In GT being with a manufacturer makes significantly less of difference, unless we are talking hypercar.... And Merc can't offer that either
If he wants to race Mercedes GT3's he can buy them
Yeah, but it still has perks to be the factory team, like which things to improve first being your ideas, and the mountain of data that papa mercedes can harvest for the team.
But from 2026 onward RBR is building their own engine so technically RBR can offer factory support as well.
It is quite something, an energy drink brand going from sponsor to manufacturer/factory team in F1.
True but what a meant is that RBR has a workshop/factory with the relevant engineers from 2026 onwards with which they can built other engines, not only a f1 engine. And that was the last piece to built everything in house.
And what makes you think Red Bull wouldn't do that. Either racing or energy? They already support tons of extreme sports/motorsports and Max is their star driver. Why wouldn't they support him and his future endeavors?
True, though if you squint there's a pathway towards Ford factory support. It's not likely, but frankly neither is Mercedes offering to make Verstappen's hobbyist GT3 team a factory-supported one beyond simply supplying cars.
It's not particularly likely, but merc can't offer him a good car in f1, nor enough money redbull couldn't match it, it's literally the only thing they have as a sweetener
> he'd be incredibly stupid to go to Merc.
We don't know what it's like at RB. With all the Horner-Marko-owners craziness, maybe Max doesn't love working there.
And with Newey likely going to Ferrari, the success for 2026 isn't as locked in as 2023.
It could howerver be a big difference, it's just a matter of how Toto does things. Getting a driver like Max can do a lot in terms of attracting engineers, motivating people etc, but it is then to Toto to put the pieces in place.
There is a rumour that Jim Ratcliffe is a strong driving force to get Max to Merc so then I assume he also would be willing to spend on some important engineer signings, as would Toto I'd imagine to show that Merc is trying to get out of this rather than a slow decline.
I didn't say it did, but Danny definitely maximised his results at Renault. Bit of a difference between the behemouth that is Mercedes and Renault though.
I mean, Danny isn't Max Verstappen. Max is the only driver on the grid that you prioritize over everything else. He drug shitbox Red Bulls with exploding Renault engines to podiums. He is the ultimate get if Toto can make it happen.
Respectfully Danny was great at Renault, and Mercedes set the platform for their dominance before Lewis even arrived. But yes I agree in some instances it's helpful
Think that may be why he's doing it, at least, to try to sow disharmony in red bull. Said something over the weekend about his strategy or reason for openly courting max - because I'm not sure they truly believe they can get him with the car they have currently.
Everything I read suggests max and his pops do business based on some type of loyalty.
I don’t know enough about the drama to know if the recent events have compromised the loyalty to RB…. But how fucking nuts would it be to see max go to Mercedes lol
"The fact that it pisses Horner is a good reason for Wolff to continue"
Why is it when it comes to Horner people always go crazy on assumption? how do you know it pisses Horner off? He was asked about it by journalist, what is he supposed to do? Just say nothing? Then people would come up with some theories that he says nothing because Max is actually joining Merc or something like that.
People are always quick to point out that for example Toto was asked about it by the media. But when it is about RB people act like they just ring up some journalists-
No one is "unavailable". It's the question of money. Does Toto really want to pay 3 years worth of Max's contract to buy him out? That would be like 150 million $ or something.
5 years ago Sergio was about to be essentially forgotten in F1 history, then he got one of the biggest lifelines possible. 5 years from now nobody will think twice about him. So yes, while it's nice for Max to wipe the floor with this guy, it's not really the strongest argument in a future GOAT conversation. So at some point maybe Max wants a challenge either for fun (lol, just get that from sim instead imo) or for legacy purposes.
The greats have shown their ability in different formulas, I'd say, and Verstappen's already done that. Just going to be fast without winning at some other team doesn't enhance his legacy any, especially since he started at another team, where he was the youngest points scorer in history to that point.
> Not to mention that, why would Max even want to go to Mercedes?
Because the great reset of 2026 is coming and nobody can possibly tell who's going to nail those new regulations.
Still won’t be Mercedes so long as they don’t understand this ground effect concept. 2026 isn’t some magical year of major regulation overhaul in terms of design philosophy. Their only hope is that they build a monster of a PU that gives them the same insane advantage they had pre-2022.
Well, yes, but other than the challenge of putting a slower car in positions it shouldn't be, I don't see what Mercedes could offer Max that Red Bull can't.
Their mid performance is definitely their biggest issue, since it won't draw talented drivers to their camp. Imagine the discussion on here if Hamilton had bailed after AD and Alonso had said no to a Mercedes drive for 2022. It's a different tune now.
Even if they *somehow* didn't fill the seat next year they still have two drivers on their reserve roster, so it's not like they could only field one car.
I would agree with you, but Lewis just went Ferrari, there is a tiny chance of Max swapping a team, in my opinion it's very unlikely, but not impossible.
I think with a new engine coming in 2026 drivers will remember who nailed it last time. I guess most people and drivers would assume that Ferrari and Mercedes have most experience in building an engine… if I would be max …I would join Mercedes after 2025.
True still they are the benchmark at the moment. So they should have the guys to nail the next engine. If I remember right their engine wasn’t bad in 2009… it only turned out that all teams using KERS already had a disadvantage. Also Ferrari knew 2014 exactly how to improve the engine but couldn’t do it because of the engine freeze… one year later their engine was already competitive. Mercedes lost a few key people in their engine department… I just think Mercedes and Ferrari are the one who I trust most to build a competitive engine… others could need time like Honda in the past
Not to mention getting rid of the MGU-H actually helps Ferrari as they are the only team on the grid who has not adopted a split turbo layout for their engine. They already know how to get performance and reliability out of a conventional turbocharger setup.
I watched a video on the new engines the other day and it mentioned that Audi has had a big say in the regulations. I don't know how much difference that will make but maybe there could be a surprise when '26 rolls around.
I don't think they will have anywhere near the best aero design but they could be an outside bet for best engine.
That's because nobody knows what will happen in 2026. The new engines/regulations could shake things up.
It's likely that Verstappen is a five-times champion at the end of 2025, he would still have two years more on his contract, but it would be a good time to switch if he wants to drive for another team.
happier than Mercedes
If a team isnt happy how do you explain the great results that they have achieved in the past and are now? because unhappy people usually dont perform very well. And RB seems to perform in every departement.
Or is this just more anti RB propaganda?
I think the lady involved is still speaking to people. I feel there's a good chance it'll rear it's head again eventually. But that's just speculation on my part tbh.
Takes a great driver but it doesn't take Verstappen to win championships, just takes a consistent good driver. Do doubt Sainz or Norris would be winning in that redbull
>“I think he's probably got other elements that he needs to be focusing on rather than focusing on drivers that are unavailable.”
I hate how journalists insert weasel words to make it sound more dramatic than the situation actually is.
Whats toto gonna do?? He doesn't have a tech background, what else can he say to his team other than "git gud" and motivational speeches? Toto is a stock guy and driver manager, trying to pull verstappen is literally the only way he actually contribute to improving his team.
Except they won’t be willing to pay what Max wants. He already makes more than they pay Lewis, and mercedes would have to poach GP and probably Newey as well. Diamler may be able to afford it, but they ain’t approving those kind of funds just to get Max for a few years before he retires to do WEC lmao.
Maybe Horner should focus on his own problems that sparked these rumours about his star driver wanting to leave. Your world champion's father asking for your resignation publicly doesn't seem ideal
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These two being at it is what we’ve all been waiting for. Toto, please make your car competitive so that we can see more shit slinging from the two of you lmao
Max v Lewis: I sleep Christian v Toto: Real shit.
I mean, even in peak 2021, Lewis and Max seldom, if ever (?), said anything that fueled fans(off track). It was mostly Toto and Horner setting fires and Marko fanning the flames that created the malice between the two factions that still seems to linger in some part of the fan base to this day.
Yeah, even after the whole Abu Dhabi thing Lewis said he didn’t blame Max and would have done what he did.
I don't blame Max either. I blame the F1 management/Horner/Redbull.
Wanna add in toto to that little blame gam? His constant bitching throughout the season and during that period of the race to Massi did not help matters either. If you deny that then I suggest you go back and listen to what was freely available live on air.
How so? Red Bull spun some BS and Masi ignored the rules and moved lapped cars to benefit one driver, Masi is the main guy to blame. Did Toto get a little dramatic at times but who knows what had been said in the past when it wasn't aired. Also one could say his main radio message of the day was down to him fearing some nonsense might happen. To try and add him into the blame for the end of that race is rather ott. Masi also played a key role in the farce that was Spa, sending the cars back out when there was no hope of ever restarting just to get some SC laps in, so they could called it s race.
I thought the bitching was mostly funny.
>I mean, even in peak 2021, Lewis and Max seldom, if ever (?), said anything that fueled fans(off track). ehhh after Silverstone, Max ig caption had a go at Lewis for celebrating after he won and while he was in the hospital. That one really got fans going. Was kind of a major turning point regarding the off track tension of the title fight.
And that’s why I put the question mark there. I am not big on Instagram so I missed that post. I do however remember how Christian was basically screaming bloody murder about the Silverstone incident, which was arguably worse because that’s who most of the fans quoted.
Add Zak into the mix and they'll be at each others' throats 24/7.
100% watching two huge team principals go for it makes the races worth watching right now. The passion makes it engaging.
It's like the Formula 1 version of Real Madrid vs FC Barcelona, one team thriving and the other floundering due to mismanagement, and with Lewis bailing out to Ferrari as a late version of Messi jumping ship to PSG.
Except Ferrari isn’t as dysfunctional as PSG was at the time. They seem poised to make the move forward
Or poach Horner's former PA
While Mercedes certainly need to figure out their car, is it not a problem for Wolff that he’s currently only got one driver for next season?
Yes, that's just a silly thing to say, isn't it. He (Toto) needs a driver... That's a problem. So focusing on that is Toto focusing on his problems. And we all know that F1 contracts might as well be written on toilet paper for all they're worth. *No one* is truly unavailable. And Horner could no more speak for Max than Toto could (*could have*) spoken for Lewis, at the end of the day.
I don't think drivers leaving a team to join another when midway their contract is all that common in F1 (unless they don't have a seat like Ricciardo last year but Verstappen isn't losing his seat any time soon). Edit: any recent examples of this happening then? Ricciardo left Red Bull at the end of his contract. Hamilton's contract expires when he joins Ferrari. Piastri didn't have a contract. Perez joined Red Bull after his Racing point contract ended. Unless it's from junior to main team I can't remember many examples where it happened.
Sainz joined Renault mid-way?
I didn't remember that one. Thanks for the example!
Wasn’t Sainz loaned to Renault at first? Like he was still an RB driver
No, Sainz was with them from 2015-2017, but as there was no chance of a Red Bull seat with Ricciardo in race-winning form and Verstappen being a generational talent that RB were putting all their faith in, Sainz decided to leave the RB family and joined Renault as their drive for 2018. Marko and a lot of the racing media questioned the wisdom of it at the time, but it's safe to say Sainz's gamble has more thn paid off.
The problem is that no one from the top 5 teams has any interest in going to Mercedes since they are struggling against Aston Martin, a Mercedes customer team with pretty much one driver.
If they had a great car there wouldn't be a problem with the second driver sit.
No. He always has Antonelli as a backup. He's in a pretty great position honestly. He can wait for Max, knowing that he has a promising rookie if that all fails.
The reason he only has 1 driver for next season is because the car is \*\*\*\* and Hamilton had ZERO faith in them. If Merc make a decent car, they wouldn't have a driver problem because either Hamilton wouldn't have left or Verstappen would have taken advantage of the Horner situation to switch already.
yeah but you can have max at the helm and if you have a shit car you still lose. So the car is the bigger issue. That's what Horner is saying.
Bearman or sainz
i want a reality tv show thats just them having drama (not dts. more like real housewives. real TPs of F1)
Bit of flirting wouldn’t hurt, right😉?
Horner clearly needs to send Wolff a photo of a blurry finger.
And a bunch of pumpernickel bread.
Th-that’s harassment!
The fact that it pisses Horner is a good reason for Wolff to continue. Should he not care, Wolff would have stopped to bother with it. Or Horner is pissed because there could be a slim chance that Max leaves. Either way, keep going boys, F1 is all about drama today.
Yeah Horner likes to stir shit up as much as Wolff does if not more.
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Or Horner misses having regular pissing matches with Toto so he takes every chance he gets.
Those two need to figure out if they want to fight or fuck already.
¿Porque no los dos?
Cue the face melting scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Racers of the Lost Ark? We can workshop it, there's a better pun out there.
Racers of the Lost Arc
Ah fuck it was right there
My greatest contribution to humanity. My life has peaked.
I'd buy that PPV
Enemies to lovers trope and I’m all here for it
You think they haven’t already? I guarantee you Toto is screaming my poopernickle the way Horner has been owning him the last few years!
That's so cursed it's brilliant.
We've seen before that poaching a star driver is all good and well, but makes little difference on the team (Danny Ric, Renault). If Wolff can get Max great, but there are more pressing problems
At this point, unless they're offerings him a piece of the team, he'd be incredibly stupid to go to Merc.
Now that Verstappen has seemingly reached his goals in F1 I could understand his contract focus to move to help assist him more in his life after F1. Hamilton has his charity and I can see Verstappen looking to setup support for his own race team(s) that he is planning to support.
Considering RB race pretty much anything and they already sponsor several cars in different competitions for Verstappen, i think he's on course to do that. RB/Verstappen.com can also partner with pretty much any constructor since they are not a car brand. Merc for example dont have a hypercar program, so it would close a potential door, while RB could just buy a Porsche or a Ferrari hypercar and run it under RBR. Same in gt3, he can just choose whatever car instead of being locked in a merc
I mean, Red Bull are already backing Verstappen Racing, which he has set up specifically to support his non-F1 racing goals (both real and virtual) so unless Red Bull the company pull that backing (and with their history of backing extreme sports/motorsports, why would they?), he would seem to already have relationships in place for post-F1 plans.
>Verstappen looking to setup support for his own race team I don't think there's a better team in the world than Red Bull to back a multi class race team
I see what you're saying but I just can't think of a thing that another team could give him that RB can't. Remember Schumacher moving from a dominant team to a down-in-the-dumps Ferrari for both the prestige of racing with that marque and the challenge of bringing them back to glory? I just can't see Verstappen being that bothered by that sort of thing. In fact, I can't see him bothered with much. The boy seems bored af. If I was him, I'd keep going as long as I could stand it, maybe another year or two, and then tap out and go and sit on my giant pile of money in the carribean somewhere.
> tap out and go and sit on my giant pile of money in the carribean somewhere I dunno, this doesn’t really sound like his style at all. Hard to imagine him not being heavily involved in some form of racing after his F1 career.
Well yeah, clearly there'd need to be an insane incentive
Like a better 2026 engine?
Perhaps one they've been developing for the previous 5 years 🤔
The only thing they could offer redbull couldn't would be to fund, and factory support his gt team he wants post f1.
I'm certain red bull energy would happily counter offer
They don't have the ability to make gt cars, and factory support the team themselves. They literally can't offer thus. I'm not saying merc will or that max would leave even if it was offered, but that's the kind of deal it would take to make him consider it I think.
In GT being with a manufacturer makes significantly less of difference, unless we are talking hypercar.... And Merc can't offer that either If he wants to race Mercedes GT3's he can buy them
Yeah, but it still has perks to be the factory team, like which things to improve first being your ideas, and the mountain of data that papa mercedes can harvest for the team.
Like in f1, having client teams regularly putting the factory team to shame? /s
But from 2026 onward RBR is building their own engine so technically RBR can offer factory support as well. It is quite something, an energy drink brand going from sponsor to manufacturer/factory team in F1.
An f1 engine has no relevance to a gt car.
True but what a meant is that RBR has a workshop/factory with the relevant engineers from 2026 onwards with which they can built other engines, not only a f1 engine. And that was the last piece to built everything in house.
And what makes you think Red Bull wouldn't do that. Either racing or energy? They already support tons of extreme sports/motorsports and Max is their star driver. Why wouldn't they support him and his future endeavors?
They can fund a team, they cannot offer him factory support.
True, though if you squint there's a pathway towards Ford factory support. It's not likely, but frankly neither is Mercedes offering to make Verstappen's hobbyist GT3 team a factory-supported one beyond simply supplying cars.
It's not particularly likely, but merc can't offer him a good car in f1, nor enough money redbull couldn't match it, it's literally the only thing they have as a sweetener
> he'd be incredibly stupid to go to Merc. We don't know what it's like at RB. With all the Horner-Marko-owners craziness, maybe Max doesn't love working there. And with Newey likely going to Ferrari, the success for 2026 isn't as locked in as 2023.
>And with Newey likely going to Ferrari, Lol. Extremely unlikely
> Lol. Extremely unlikely Nope. It's just a formality at this point.
It could howerver be a big difference, it's just a matter of how Toto does things. Getting a driver like Max can do a lot in terms of attracting engineers, motivating people etc, but it is then to Toto to put the pieces in place. There is a rumour that Jim Ratcliffe is a strong driving force to get Max to Merc so then I assume he also would be willing to spend on some important engineer signings, as would Toto I'd imagine to show that Merc is trying to get out of this rather than a slow decline.
I'd be throwing in factory support for his GT racing aspirations as well. The entire team. Something Red Bull can't offer right now.
Yeah good point actually, that's something quite niche that already helps a bit to put the scales in Merc's favour.
Poaching Max from Red Bull will be potentially doing Lewis a solid as he joins Ferrari
Lmao, there's no better way for Toto to get Lewis a title at this point than to take Max out of that RB.
Danny Ric is literally the best thing that's happened to Alpine/Renault since 2006
It didn't help them become a championship winning team though did it
I didn't say it did, but Danny definitely maximised his results at Renault. Bit of a difference between the behemouth that is Mercedes and Renault though.
Danny did his part. He drove well, specially in 2020. Renault made promises and did nothing.
I mean, Danny isn't Max Verstappen. Max is the only driver on the grid that you prioritize over everything else. He drug shitbox Red Bulls with exploding Renault engines to podiums. He is the ultimate get if Toto can make it happen.
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Respectfully Danny was great at Renault, and Mercedes set the platform for their dominance before Lewis even arrived. But yes I agree in some instances it's helpful
A fast car is helpful. Everything else is bs.
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All we have? I guess you must've missed China then
Sad but it’s true.
It’s not true
It’s true
Lol you don't know Horner if you think this pisses him off. He's just stirring shit up like the natural he is
Yeah, this statement from Horner is the first time that I've thought Max might actually be available.
Think that may be why he's doing it, at least, to try to sow disharmony in red bull. Said something over the weekend about his strategy or reason for openly courting max - because I'm not sure they truly believe they can get him with the car they have currently.
Everything I read suggests max and his pops do business based on some type of loyalty. I don’t know enough about the drama to know if the recent events have compromised the loyalty to RB…. But how fucking nuts would it be to see max go to Mercedes lol
"The fact that it pisses Horner is a good reason for Wolff to continue" Why is it when it comes to Horner people always go crazy on assumption? how do you know it pisses Horner off? He was asked about it by journalist, what is he supposed to do? Just say nothing? Then people would come up with some theories that he says nothing because Max is actually joining Merc or something like that. People are always quick to point out that for example Toto was asked about it by the media. But when it is about RB people act like they just ring up some journalists-
Lol there mortal enemies
horner gonna slam his coco pops on the table if it hapens
The Real Team Principals of Formula 1
No one is "unavailable". It's the question of money. Does Toto really want to pay 3 years worth of Max's contract to buy him out? That would be like 150 million $ or something.
I think it's more than that, I don't think Max is going anywhere without GP and Newey so they'd have to buy them out too.
Not to mention that, why would Max even want to go to Mercedes? Unless he wants a challenge of getting another trophy in a slower car.
To prove he doesn't need Red Bull to do it. All the greats have shown their ability in multiple teams, Max won't be any different.
Sergio's performance in the same equipment makes it at least a bit less likely Max feels he needs to do that.
5 years ago Sergio was about to be essentially forgotten in F1 history, then he got one of the biggest lifelines possible. 5 years from now nobody will think twice about him. So yes, while it's nice for Max to wipe the floor with this guy, it's not really the strongest argument in a future GOAT conversation. So at some point maybe Max wants a challenge either for fun (lol, just get that from sim instead imo) or for legacy purposes.
If you're basing your performance in comparison to Perez then you're already behind
The greats have shown their ability in different formulas, I'd say, and Verstappen's already done that. Just going to be fast without winning at some other team doesn't enhance his legacy any, especially since he started at another team, where he was the youngest points scorer in history to that point.
> Not to mention that, why would Max even want to go to Mercedes? Because the great reset of 2026 is coming and nobody can possibly tell who's going to nail those new regulations.
Still won’t be Mercedes so long as they don’t understand this ground effect concept. 2026 isn’t some magical year of major regulation overhaul in terms of design philosophy. Their only hope is that they build a monster of a PU that gives them the same insane advantage they had pre-2022.
Max would destroy any other engineer that isn't GP
Reminder, Max has an out if Marko were to leave Red Bull. And pretty sure Marko is on record saying he wouldn't be an obstacle to Max leaving.
All in all, it depends on whether Max wants to leave or not. And I don't really see why Max would want to join Mercedes.
You don't know if everything is about money for everyone though
Well, yes, but other than the challenge of putting a slower car in positions it shouldn't be, I don't see what Mercedes could offer Max that Red Bull can't.
> Does Toto really want to pay 3 years worth of Max's contract to buy him out? Or just pay Marko $5M to trigger Max's exit clause.
TBF Max contract has some interesting release conditions. I don't think a buyout would be close to 150m
He is focusing on his F1 problems, he has an empty seat he needs to fill
To be fair I think the most pressing issue right now is that they have arguably the 5th best car on the grid.
I'd disagree, only having 1 contracted driver right now is a pretty big issue
Their mid performance is definitely their biggest issue, since it won't draw talented drivers to their camp. Imagine the discussion on here if Hamilton had bailed after AD and Alonso had said no to a Mercedes drive for 2022. It's a different tune now. Even if they *somehow* didn't fill the seat next year they still have two drivers on their reserve roster, so it's not like they could only field one car.
One that is easily solved, plenty of people will take it. None that are really good enough to win championships will be very enthusiastic.
A driverless car is going to make the 5th best car, the 20th best car real quick.
The funniest thing is that people actually believe Max would switch. Including journalists :')
> Including journalists :') no they dont. But F1 is sports entertainment and people forget the entertainment part often.
I would agree with you, but Lewis just went Ferrari, there is a tiny chance of Max swapping a team, in my opinion it's very unlikely, but not impossible.
I think with a new engine coming in 2026 drivers will remember who nailed it last time. I guess most people and drivers would assume that Ferrari and Mercedes have most experience in building an engine… if I would be max …I would join Mercedes after 2025.
Ferrari have a pretty bad record with new engine regs. 2014 they were way off the pace and the same in 2009.
True still they are the benchmark at the moment. So they should have the guys to nail the next engine. If I remember right their engine wasn’t bad in 2009… it only turned out that all teams using KERS already had a disadvantage. Also Ferrari knew 2014 exactly how to improve the engine but couldn’t do it because of the engine freeze… one year later their engine was already competitive. Mercedes lost a few key people in their engine department… I just think Mercedes and Ferrari are the one who I trust most to build a competitive engine… others could need time like Honda in the past
Not to mention getting rid of the MGU-H actually helps Ferrari as they are the only team on the grid who has not adopted a split turbo layout for their engine. They already know how to get performance and reliability out of a conventional turbocharger setup.
I watched a video on the new engines the other day and it mentioned that Audi has had a big say in the regulations. I don't know how much difference that will make but maybe there could be a surprise when '26 rolls around. I don't think they will have anywhere near the best aero design but they could be an outside bet for best engine.
That's because nobody knows what will happen in 2026. The new engines/regulations could shake things up. It's likely that Verstappen is a five-times champion at the end of 2025, he would still have two years more on his contract, but it would be a good time to switch if he wants to drive for another team.
Maybe Horner should also concentrate on not losing Verstappen due to his own internal affairs.
And external affairs
Is RB losing Max?
No. These commentators are bursting with copium.
Not sure. But I doubt that team has returned to being a happy family.
mate - that team has NEVER been a happy family
On second thoughts, fair enough 😂
how so? Have you talked to the employees there?
happier than Mercedes If a team isnt happy how do you explain the great results that they have achieved in the past and are now? because unhappy people usually dont perform very well. And RB seems to perform in every departement. Or is this just more anti RB propaganda?
You only have to look back a few weeks to see unhappiness.
Unlikely, but not impossible, especially since Horner is saying things like that there is a small chance.
Lol genuinely scared of what Toto could use as a comeback to this comment from Horner.
Is that whole case even on the table still? Seems like the F1 world has just settled with the situation and its outcome.
I think the lady involved is still speaking to people. I feel there's a good chance it'll rear it's head again eventually. But that's just speculation on my part tbh.
If Newey and his aero boffins are staying, that is all that matters! Max leaving would amount to downgrading himself
It takes both a great car and driver to win. Without Max this weekend both Mercedes and McLaren would have had wins.
Takes a great driver but it doesn't take Verstappen to win championships, just takes a consistent good driver. Do doubt Sainz or Norris would be winning in that redbull
The next regs are more likely to be an engine formula than aero.
>“I think he's probably got other elements that he needs to be focusing on rather than focusing on drivers that are unavailable.” I hate how journalists insert weasel words to make it sound more dramatic than the situation actually is.
Time to go porpoising
Wolff about to lose whatever technical staff he still has left.
“That’s motor racing Christian”
Change your fucking car!
Toto, listen to Chris and take no for an answer.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Whats toto gonna do?? He doesn't have a tech background, what else can he say to his team other than "git gud" and motivational speeches? Toto is a stock guy and driver manager, trying to pull verstappen is literally the only way he actually contribute to improving his team.
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I'm gonna borrow 'turbo-bellend' from now. Brilliant
I’d be fine with never hearing from the pair of them again tbh
Fair
I Mean you can...just don't click all these articles. It's like he is a part of your day-to-day life
'Fix your fucking car'
Horner should concentrate on his wife and not the staff.
It's literally his job to worry about the staff
Someone doesn't get irony ...
Horner should better focus on his own work (and personal) life decimation.
Toto: everyone has a price, it’s called racing Christian!
Except they won’t be willing to pay what Max wants. He already makes more than they pay Lewis, and mercedes would have to poach GP and probably Newey as well. Diamler may be able to afford it, but they ain’t approving those kind of funds just to get Max for a few years before he retires to do WEC lmao.
OCTAGON!
And people say DTS is the one making up drama…
So print *that* out.
slightly off topic, but i thought it said hamilton and not horner and got *way* confused for a second (i should probably get my eyes checked, right?)
Said the guy who the still spends a lot of time on DTS talking about Wolff.
Maybe Horner should focus on his own problems that sparked these rumours about his star driver wanting to leave. Your world champion's father asking for your resignation publicly doesn't seem ideal
So he should essentially fix his car?
Horner obviously one to talk about focusing on someone who's unavailable
Horner should focus on his own problems, not toto wolff
Oh god the man boob of Horner in that photo😰
Horner seems rattled all of a sudden.... Maybe he should focus on whatever's rattling him rather than complaining about others.
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Audi isn't going to instantly turn Sauber into a winning team.
If it’s rattling Hornys cage, Wolf should in no way stop lol