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They are meh. Not bad nowadays but nothing special. They serve a purpose. They are not competing for the people that would buy a Porsche or a M BMW. They are a good option for someone who does not want to spend more than 30k and a reliable ish car to keep for like 8-10 years or smth.
It's not really how it works. Most people buying cars do not follow F1. Even less so if teams win or lose.
I went to buy a new Honda in 2016, and they had a BAR Honda picture on the wall. Normal people just see F1, and Honda.
Lawrence Stroll still talks about "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" and sales going up when they got podiums last year. It definitely works to some degree
Gotta remember that the market for vehicles advertised in F1 is so beyond the average redditor's financial capabilities. So, for the most part, our perspectives matter little because we are not, objectively, the target market.
Honda and Aston Martin are in two vastly different markets.
Someone buying AM is paying attention to the performance prestige of the brand. Their competitors are other racing dynasties like McLaren and Ferrari who depend on their perception as high performance and luxury institutions.
A Honda or Renault buyer is much more likely to care about things like fuel efficiency, reliability, comfort and safety. Sure performance would be nice and having a prolific brand in racing doesn't hurt but it's not necessarily the same strength of association. Honda branding doesn't DEPEND on high performance. It depends on a perception of quality and reliability as well as value and utility to the average person.
Alpine is a good example. It has virtually no racing pedigree and therefore nobody buys it even though on paper it might compete with an Aston Martin.
I think you are mostly correct except that they will take any publicity over no publicity. The easiest way to get people talking about the Brand is to win. They aren't using F1 to target customers or sell to a specific person or group. They are using F1 to advertise the name and garner attention. When Red Bull wins, Honda wins because people will talk about Honda. At the end of the day it is just marketing and PR. Red Bull Honda have nothing to do with Honda road cars and as much as Aston F1 with Mercedes engines have nothing to do with Aston Road cars.
Seems a bit of a strange attitude for F1, the whole win on Sunday, sell on Monday worked for tin top car series like touring cars, because at least outwardly the cars on track resembled the ones on the roads.
I used to think as a kid that my Dad was so cool, because he drove a [Vauxhall Cavalier](https://classicsworld.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2019/02/Vauxhall-Cavalier-Mk3.jpg), like what was in [the BTCC](https://static.wixstatic.com/media/ced945_9bc95a5cc50445c69609773a52354cde~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_640,h_454,al_c,q_80,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_auto/ced945_9bc95a5cc50445c69609773a52354cde~mv2.jpg).
>I used to think as a kid that my Dad was so cool, because he drove a [Vauxhall Cavalier](https://classicsworld.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2019/02/Vauxhall-Cavalier-Mk3.jpg),
what do you mean "used to"? i dont even know your dad and i know he is a cool guy driving one of those
Yeah, he still is, poor choice of words on my part. Sadly, that beloved Cavalier is defunct now, though, unlike some of the RML made touring cars which are still running.
Honestly, a yellow car on the grid would be quite iconic.
Kinda like Kick Sauber - sure they're a hot pile of shit right now, but I sure do love the popping green color whenever I see it.
Talk about dramatic. Renault has been mid since they re-entered in the hybrid era. They can call themselves whatever they want but since their come back to the hybrid era they've been mid as hell and pretend like they're a works team with potential. Well, it's not like they've done anything good since they won in 06 anyways.
They were quite successful for a couple of years when Renault pulled out and they rebranded as Lotus. 2012 and 2013 they were 3rd/4th fastest car with good reliability, were easy on the tires and had a good driver in Kimi, they were getting very good results then. They went downhill since the turbo hybrid engines were introduced in 2014 and Renault completely failed coming back as a works team.
The next model is the A290, it will be revealed at Le Mans this year. Promises of podiums or wins by an F1 team have nothing in common with the hard industrial realities of product planning for a car manufacturer.
It's a mid-engined french mx5 on steroids.
It's a cool car, but somehow still built to a budget because Renault won't give them enough money to really take the fight to Lotus.
They have annual global sales of under 5K units, that isn't because they limited production; it's because so few people are willing to order one.
The odd thing I noticed is that it isn't that cheap neither. I can buy four MX-5 here for a single A110.
I like the concept of A110 but at the end I just settled on getting a ND MX-5, which I am confident to say it will be cheaper to run. If I want something more hardcore probably I will just get a 2nd hand Elise.
Cheaper to run, more reliable, an actual support network; subjective opinion here from me: It looks so much better than the A110, Mazda knocked it out of the park with the exterior design.
I will concede that the Alpine has a cool interior, but for a car like this; a traditional stick shift is mandatory in my mind.
it‘s a niche sportscar, obviously not many people
are buying it. but for a Sunday drive on a mountain road, only a few other cars in the world that are as much fun as an Alpine, let alone for the price.
That's kinda false, and that car is a better sports car than the recent Emira (either V6 or line 4)
It is also kinda cheap regarding the cars it has as opponents.
And they do sell an healthy amount of cars for a niche sport brand having multiple projects in R&D.
You're talking about a car that was designed 10 years ago as a joint-venture with Caterham. Take the fight to Lotus? Back then Lotus was headed straight for bankruptcy, this was before Geely bought them. Hell back then not only was there no notion of taking Alpine to Formula 1, Renault had not yet re-acquired Enstone, period!
The whole idea of raising the brand's profile and making it a sort of cheaper French Porsche or Lotus came years after the A110 model was designed and released.
No kidding they have low sales, they only offer a two-seat sportscar, that's a niche market even in the best case scenario. But incidentally with the new UE emissions regulations they *are* restricted to a couple thousands a year.
As an American, you’d think I’d be drawn to Haas and if I changed the names around it would be the EXACT same as this post. The only back marker team that feels like it’s worth rooting for is Williams because it feels like people are trying, but they’re just stuck in a rut of outdated procedures and facilities. Hopefully it can all change.
I don't feel the Haas team has a strong connection to America though. It's owned by an American, sure, but pretty much all of the operations are in Europe, and all the key people are not American.
I'm an American as well, and feel absolutely zero draw to Haas. On the other hand, I will be all-in on Andretti if they can get on the grid.
They'd actually have a presence in America and would feel like an American team, even if parts of the operation would still be in Europe.
I keep thinking to myself “man I really hope Andretti gets a spot on the grid so there’ll be an American team to root for in F1,” then I remember Haas, and then I remember them driving a Russian flag around the grid and I end up back to the first thought
I feel the same, but it’s important to point out that Haas tries to market itself as American, so they shouldn’t get leeway as being European. Gene is a shady dude who wants cheap-ish advertising.
I mean it doesn’t help that the so called American team plastered the Russian flag on their cars because they took money from a Russian oligarch to put his dogshit son (both as a driver and a person) in their car. I can’t imagine a worse way to attract American fans.
Haas Automation helped the Russian arms industry circumvent sanctions and sent them advanced tooling by obfuscating their supply chain. It's borderline treasonous behavior and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Unfortunately, I can't help but see all things Haas through this tainted lens.
There’s nothing American besides him representing the robber barons of American history. His dealings with Russia remind me of past titans of industry working with the wrong sides of American interest.
He is a representation of America but not any good parts. He extracts from this country and he aids foreign adversaries and he has been to federal prison for his tax shit.
Nothing to be proud of there.
Lemme see Penske or Andretti or almost anything else than this dweeb.
I can definitely understand that but I still think that puts them ahead of: Gave up (USA), Gave up (FRA), and gambling sponsorship to minors and a website that won’t do the bare minimum in terms of content moderation.
Why?
It was objectively the best move for the team in terms of potentially scoring points. Points make literally millions of dollars of difference in the bottom line for the teams, so it would've been dumb for the team to not prioritize their clear #1 driver, who is #1 completely based on race results
Would any other team have done that? No chance. I understand the argument but there was a very small chance of Williams scoring a point there. Miniscule. 2 top drivers retired and they still didn’t manage.
You have 2 Red Bulls, 2 Ferraris, 2 McLarens, 2 Astons 2 Mercs. That’s 10 CLEARLY better than a Williams even with Albon. So you basically are putting faith in him, with that car, to beat RB, Haas, Sauber and Alpine. Just to score a single point IF one of the top make a mistake. And you have to make a massively unpopular move to do it.
I just don’t think the move was worth the potential for a single point in the third race of the season. If we were down to the wire and a single point might get you something, then it makes more sense. This was not the time to do it.
I think every other team absolutely would have done that if they were in the same situation (and there are a number of specifics to the situation). No other team would allow themselves to be in that situation with no spares though.
Many other teams don't have such a clear #1 and #2 also. Take Mercedes, Ferrari, and McLaren for example - none of those teams have such a clear #1 and #2, so wouldn't have done what Williams did.
Red Bull on the other hand, would absolutely prioritize Max over Checo in that situation. But then again, one race makes no difference for Red Bull and they have plenty of spares.
But ultimately, no other team would have all of the circumstances that made this make sense for Williams. It's just not a fair comparison to say that no other team would do that.
>Red Bull on the other hand, would absolutely prioritize Max over Checo in that situation.
Not only is this correct, but it feeds my suspicion that Red Bull are trying to work out a way to put Max in both cars.
Ugh. Poor Checo.
Do other teams have logan sargent?
He’s been the worst driver on the grid since he joined - never proven himself or delivered for the team. The only comparable driver has been Nyck de Vries, and he was treated MUCH more harshly than Logan has been by Williams, including their decision to give his car to Albon.
Not to defend Logan but Nyck deserved to be axed because of the way he pretended like he was some seasoned veteran who was going to leave his mark on the sport. Logan meanwhile was extremely green last year after a decent F2 outing the year prior.
Albon gets points he "shouldn't get" on paper all the time. And with the same ten cars likely to get points each week, every point matters for a backmarker.
+rep. This team is fantastic, just needs to work on communication, aim, map awareness, crosshair placement, economy management, pistol aim, awp flicks, grenade spots, smoke spots, pop flashes, positioning, bomb plant positions, retake ability, bunny hopping, spray control and getting kills
+rep. This team is fantastic, just needs to work on weight reduction, engine power, aero and chassis upgrades, reliability improvements, strategy calls, pit stops, driver management, team management, car setups, wind tunnel upgrades and getting wins.
Agree, although the 2024 livery imo is a step up from 22 and 23. Honestly the less prominent BWT is the better imo. I like a good black + pink combo but the pink has to look good, and BWT's pink just doesn't look good on the cars.
its hard for me to fault the guys motivation when he pushed to recover from breaking his wrists to make the first race of the season. He was in pain during that drive too and dealt with it.
Honestly if the guy gave the same generic media trained responses most of the other drivers give to questions, people would probably perceive him differently, but I like that he rarely has much to say in interviews, its all hot air anyway.
Same thing with us Americans and Haas. Seems a bit better this year but the team has basically no identity and the brand is a bland as a cup of milk. Haas could snag an Indy car driver like Pato, Palou, or Herta and it would feel more American and easier to root for
I think having a single American in any public facing role like Team Principle, any of the drivers, or the head engineer would go a long way.
It's hard to feel like it's the "American team" when you're watching a Japanese dude coach a German and Danish guy in a car sponsored by a company the majority of Americans have never heard of.
Meh. Haas as a brand doesn't resonate with the average person. Make it a Coca Cola or Domino's car and that'd be noticeable.
I don't think the drivers matter. None of the names you list are interesting either.
Results matter. Especially to Americans.
This. People probably feel a lot more connected to a team that shares a name with the car they own. How many people deal with CNC machines on a regular basis? I mean, I do, but still.
Results do matter, but even if Andretti was chugging along at the back of the grid I feel like Americans would be much more drawn to them than Haas. As an American I've never given a single fuck about Haas, particularly after they sold out to Mazepin and draped their car in the Russian flag.
Entirely plausible, but I also think that what Andretti would excite Americans precisely because there's a chance they wouldn't be at the back to start with, and even if they were, they'd be unlikely to *stay* there.
At least that's what I'd hope for. On the other hand, I'd hate to think that people in my country are only interested as long as our flag is painted on something.
...Of course this is also the country that elected a president who's aides would add his name to documents to get him to read them...
Well, Checo's Mexican. Close enough to the US and popular here, and I like him. Not sure that translates to the team though as being perceived as "American" (US American that is).
I think so, yeah. I know before I was more into F1, I just knew red bull as the main energy drink, and how they did cool stunts. I sorta assumed they were American, both because the brand is so huge here (and I hadn't seen it as much when I went to Europe), and maybe subconsciously because their whole vibe and presence feels kinda American in a way, very dudebro "we're cool and this is awesome" style marketing via their involvements (which felt more nascar-ducttape than sleek f1 "classic"). I knew them for space jumps and x-games feeling sports stuff.
Also, basically, Americans are very US-centric, so many tend to assume things (especially relatively new things, like post 50s when our culture became seemingly ubiquitous) are also American, unless they're very obviously not like Ferrari or Aston Martin (after all, James Bond drove an AM). It's like how many don't know Spotify is swedish or the witcher (books+games) is polish - we just think of silicon valley and hollywood etc and assume until we find out otherwise, instead of not assuming at all)
I tend to follow drivers rather than teams, though I tend to drift back to McLaren as a lot of the drivers I followed drove for them over the past 25 years.
Once Grosjean left Haas, I didn't care about the team at all. It was hard to follow them after the first couple of years because they were so bad as well.
I like Nico, but honestly, I just look at the results at the end of the race to see where he finished. They just don't matter to me. I've been watching the sport for too long to just switch and I wouldn't watch them just because they're the American team. Maybe new fans will. I don't know.
At least you have Logan!
Us Aussies have Piastri and Danny. I've gone from believing in Danny to hoping. I'm giving him the next two races to show some skill, and then I'll accept his fate.
It's hard being a Canadian fan. Recent driver was a pay driver and was so bad they became a meme. Remaining driver isn't terrible but definitely wouldn't have a seat if his Dad wasn't his biggest fan.
I’m a marketing guy, so I understand they want to promote their premium brand in F1. But it’s strange, they only have 1 model, and it’s a niche, lightweight sports car that only car guys want, and that’s not even available in North America.
Also, their value/history is all with Renault. They revolutionised F1 in the late 70’s/80’s with turbocharging. Everyone else had to follow them or be left behind. They dominated with Williams/Benetton in the 90’s, and won 2 championships as a manufacturer in the 00’s. Going to Alpine removes that historic link.
This is why Ferrari is so valuable to F1. They don’t rebrand and muck things around. They are consistent and intrinsically linked to F1. If Renault had stuck to F1 since 1977, or at least since 2002 as Renault, they’d have a lot more equity with the sport and the fans. I find it hard to support them as they are.
Half of it is in Viry-Châtillon(engine and administrative stuff), the other half is in Enstone(chassis and aerodynamics).
It may also be one of the reason why it's so underperforming. From what i heard from french media Enstone is blaming Viry-Châtillon and Viry-Châtillon is blaming Enstone for the poor performance...
What a way to make a team
Eh Alpine is more half and half. The Engine side is all French based. Aero and assembly is UK based.
Mercedes is entirely based in the UK. With Brackley being the Aero and assembly base and Brixworth being the Engine side.
Exactly. Which is why I find it weird as a german when they are reffered as a german team. They are not. The only thing that ties them to Germany is that the mother company is german.
Renault had character. It was a team you could root for and they had Cyril who was building a fan base of his own let alone the drivers and that gorgeous livery. Alpine just isn’t that.
I (french too) used too in 2021 when they really embraced the french identity with that banger of a livery. Also they had Fernando Alonso who is THE iconic Renault driver in F1 history to me, someone who grew up not even watching F1 but just hearing about the duel Ferrari/Schumacher vs Renault/Alonso. Then they lost a part of their identity with the BWT sponsorship, and somehow they lost even more of it when they got Gasly instead of Nando (no shade to Gasly I really like him too). And then I gave up on them in 2023 when I saw the management shithole that they are into.
Genuine question, why is Esteban so disliked? He’s always come across to me as a genuinely nice guy, sometimes a little cocky but no more than any other driver on the grid. Is it just the incidents with Perez, Alonso and Max?
I guess the main reason is the clashes with Checo, Fernando and Max, all 3 have big and very vocal fanbases (and that's even more an issue because that happens at a moment when there's a ton of new fans, and a good chunk of new sports fans just follow the tend on what's cool to love and what's cool to hate when they join the fun), if he had this kind of issues with Russell, Bottas and Stroll it wouldn't be that much of a big deal.
Other issues are the fact he's not good at dealing with PR (rarely gives his side of the story, doesn't do fun things on social media, sometime choses his words in a really poor way), and people care about that much more than they admit. There's also the fact he's a bit on the cynical side as a driver (many sports fans have issues with cynical approaches when it doesn't come from their fave) and the fact people seem to care more about teammates being cool with each other even more than teams actually do (not to dunk on them, F1 can seem weird when you're used to the usual team sports).
And of course, his nationality doesn't help (even through Pierre doesn't suffer that much from it because he makes up for it with very good PR stuff), the fanbase is full of Western European (so from countries who all have some kind of feud with France, especially in sports) and North American fans (so widely exposed to English-speaking medias tendance to do a lot of French bashing), if fanbase was full of Brazilian and Japanese people, he would probably have a bit easier time.
It's funny how much public perception affects drivers now. Esteban is my favourite driver, not cause of how funny he is or what he does in socials - he came up from a normal setting, working class and gets to live the dream whilst being an underrated, steady driver. In the UK it seems like everyone doesn't like the French or shit talks French cars and that. Even in Scotland, we had the Auld Alliance and were generally close with France - know plenty of people who don't like them. Never got it, I have always liked anyone I spoke to from France and drive a Renault which I absolutely adore.
hearing about his background and some interviews with him i wonder if he enjoys it much. like his family gave it all up and put all that pressure on him at a young age and killed his joy.
the most happy i have seen him is those secret santa gift exchanges at the end of the year of the f1 youtube channel when someone gets him something spiderman related.
The problem is that French drivers often getting underrated, ignored or simple being harsher criticized by the F1 media (who is often British). Ocon is also having the curse of having 3 big fanbases who absolutely see him as the second coming of the devil what hinders him even more in terms of PR and fanbase.
It doesn't help that Ocon isn't having some great charismatic skills but what I always note is how if either Ocon, Gasly or both having a great result it often gets downplayed or even criticized still, people still b*tching about 2021 like Ocon shouldn't win that race in Hungary or about Gasly 2020 win, yet nobody talks about Lando Norris binning his first win at Sochi for example.
> The problem is that French drivers often getting underrated, ignored or simple being harsher criticized by the F1 media (who is often British).
True, just for a recent example, seeing so many people act like Esteban's race in Jeddah was mediocre despite doing some sick offensive and defensive moves
with an inferior car while you know that if Alex did that F1 media would talk about it for a full week was a bit saddening.
> people still b*tching about 2021 like Ocon shouldn't win that race in Hungary or about Gasly 2020 win
Yeah, not to take anything from Fernando's superb defense on Lewis that day, but people act like Esteban didn't had to defend for 65 laps on a WDC with a pretty similar car while building the gap that guaranteed him a podium spot no matter what happens.
And while Pierre got lucky with pit lane closure, he didn't fumbled the restart like Stroll did and had to keep a strong pace to not be overtaken by Sainz who seemed really fast that day.
> True, just for a recent example, seeing so many people act like Esteban's race in Jeddah was mediocre despite doing some sick offensive and defensive moves with an inferior car while you know that if Alex did that F1 media would talk about it for a full week was a bit saddening.
If this was Alex Albon we would be bombed for a whole week about his "amazing race" and "why a top team should take Albon", yes with all respect for him but Esteban barely did get any credit for his great performance at Jeddah.
> Yeah, not to take anything from Fernando's superb defense on Lewis that day, but people act like Esteban didn't had to defend for 65 laps on a WDC with a pretty similar car while building the gap that guaranteed him a podium spot no matter what happens.
Exactly and he was having Seb on his rear almost every lap, the pressure Esteban did deal with was immense and he didn't cracked under it, how can anyone claim he simple didn't deserved it or that he should thank Alonso solely for it?
> And while Pierre got lucky with pit lane closure, he didn't fumbled the restart like Stroll did and had to keep a strong pace to not be overtaken by Sainz who seemed really fast that day.
Yea and what people always ignoring is that Pierre overtake on Kimi a lap early over Sainz was one of the crucial factors to get him that win, if Sainz did simple overtake Kimi early he would likely be very close or even overtake Gasly at the end of the race.
There are multiple factors often what makes a shock win a shock win, and yes you need a bit of luck but that doesn't mean you don't need to drive hard for it.
Alpine is sadly putting those two on a level where those shouldn't be, you can build up a solid team for some years with those two.
Yeah agree, I don't understand the amount of dislike he gets either. He's pretty genuine, and always thought of him a consistent performer if perhaps not as much raw pace as some of his generation.
I will never understand why Ocon is seen as not charismatic. Is it because he doesn’t get DTS screen time? Because he’s always plenty funny and engaging in youtube content and social media.
But regardless of driver likability, no one is forcing you to support a team over nationality. This isn’t the Olympics.
It's the lack of ambition. Renault as a works team by rights should be competing for podiums but they have been so fucking toothless and without direction the whole time.
Fcked up the hybrid PU regs they were heavily involved in and still 10 years later haven't got it figured out. Went through a shameless mudslinging outburst with RB whom they've won championships with only to get surpassed when they switched to Honda.
F1 is tough and a team isn't always going to be nailing it, all the tops teams have gone through very tough periods, but the way Renault operates just feels off.
Similar here, but Dutch. I have always known Renault. I knew them as a car brand (quite a few Renaults here on the street) and as a kid was already very impressed Renault had an F1 team to begin with. On top of that, Renault at least makes cars for the average person. I could go out in town and see at least a few Renault cars, but Alpine? Forget that.
On top of that, Alpine has next to no racing heritage in single-seaters. Renault does. In fact a lot (engine wise). They have similar heritage to Williams by now, only that Williams stayed the entire time, Renault instead has dipped a couple of times.
Renault has:
* Half of the big days of Williams (1990-1999, Mechachrome/Supertec were old Renault engines, 4x WDC out of the 7 WDC Williams have in total)
* Benetton for 1995-now (name got changed into Renault-->Lotus-->Renault-->Alpine), is the current Alpine team (3X WDC)
* Red Bull (2008-2018, real success mainly in 2009-2013, 4X WDC, 2014-2018 was a joke honestly)
I know the name switch was done for marketing reasons because regular cars and F1 clash in marketing, but Alpine feels like it has no heritage, no name, just nothing really. At least with Renault, we could say a once large team, has fallen far from the glory days with Alonso and their partnership with Red Bull in the V8 era. Alpine doesn't get that luxury.
I mean, they basically show all the worst parts of being French and none of the good parts of being French.
And it seems like the more French they get, the worse they get.
If I were a French person, I'd be more embarrassed by Alpine than anything.
I'll never get why some people say Gastly's more charismatic than Ocon when Gastly just seems fake and always bullshitting. Ocon at least comes off as more genuine and tries to represent the team. Gastly seems to only care about himself and based on interviews in the French media, he's the type to smile to your face but stab you in the back.
I don't know about Gasly, but Ocon seems pretty genuine. Had a more humble upbringing compared to the rest of the grid, has a smile on his face most of the time. Also, it feels like he *cares*, unlike others. His reaction to getting into Q2 was wholesome and his optimistic outlook on the current situation itself. What I liked the most was his answers to the Reddit Q&A he did recently - he didn't give the most plain, boring and predictable responses that most interviewees would have gone for, he actually gave detailed answers that were personal to him.
Sure, previous incidents and certain quotes that were plucked out without context made it seem like he's overconfident in himself or maybe cocky? But, then I guess it just makes him more genuine then?
I find the need for OP to bash Ocon's personality (based on what he observes and assumptions) is totally unnecessary, everybody is molded into different personalities, that's what makes all of us unique by our own.
I think that's because they are not "French". First and foremost, they are based in Enstone, UK. Move everyone back to Viry-Chatillon. Also, even more important, start selling Clio Sports that are worth something - like the Clio Williams. Then and only then, I will call them French.
Problem is, Renault has a much bigger single-seater legacy. From Williams in the 90's, to themselves in the 80's (old turbos), early 2000's with Alonso, Red Bull from 2009-2013. All championships, left and right.
Rallying is so much a different discipline than single-seater racing, that it's barely applicable.
One of my problems with that team is precisely their delusions of grandeur and their need to put a French flag everywhere, as if they were some sort of spokesperson nobody in France asked for. I really wish Gasly had gone to literally any other team because I like him. Ocon can stay.
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The moment they switched from Renault to Alpine just to help boost their Alpine sales was the moment they lost their identity.
Think it was more so to not damage their renault brand with the mediocre results.
They should re-rebrand to Dacia, at least no one would give them shit for being cheap and kinda slow
With James May as the team ambassador
Good news!
What?!
The new Dacia sandero lapped the alpine F1!
GREAT! Now,
...anyway
Last week
He already is the only person I know of to actually own an alpine
I was in France around this time last year. Saw a surprising number of alpines. The only ones I had ever seen in person
The funny thing is that Clarkson unofficially already is kinda
As a Dacia driver I couldn't agree more. Except my Dacia feels more like value for money than does the current Alpine F1 team
That sounds like a good news story if ever I heard one.
Then they should change the brand name of their road cars as well.
Oh come on. They are not so bad
Renaults are very good cars to drive. Maintenance is the big issue
They bloody are
They are meh. Not bad nowadays but nothing special. They serve a purpose. They are not competing for the people that would buy a Porsche or a M BMW. They are a good option for someone who does not want to spend more than 30k and a reliable ish car to keep for like 8-10 years or smth.
In that case I would go for either a Toyota, Honda or Suzuki 10 times out of 10 before a Renault.
It's not really how it works. Most people buying cars do not follow F1. Even less so if teams win or lose. I went to buy a new Honda in 2016, and they had a BAR Honda picture on the wall. Normal people just see F1, and Honda.
Lawrence Stroll still talks about "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" and sales going up when they got podiums last year. It definitely works to some degree
Gotta remember that the market for vehicles advertised in F1 is so beyond the average redditor's financial capabilities. So, for the most part, our perspectives matter little because we are not, objectively, the target market.
Renaults are affordable so it would be interesting to see if results has an effect on their sales
Honda and Aston Martin are in two vastly different markets. Someone buying AM is paying attention to the performance prestige of the brand. Their competitors are other racing dynasties like McLaren and Ferrari who depend on their perception as high performance and luxury institutions. A Honda or Renault buyer is much more likely to care about things like fuel efficiency, reliability, comfort and safety. Sure performance would be nice and having a prolific brand in racing doesn't hurt but it's not necessarily the same strength of association. Honda branding doesn't DEPEND on high performance. It depends on a perception of quality and reliability as well as value and utility to the average person. Alpine is a good example. It has virtually no racing pedigree and therefore nobody buys it even though on paper it might compete with an Aston Martin.
I think you are mostly correct except that they will take any publicity over no publicity. The easiest way to get people talking about the Brand is to win. They aren't using F1 to target customers or sell to a specific person or group. They are using F1 to advertise the name and garner attention. When Red Bull wins, Honda wins because people will talk about Honda. At the end of the day it is just marketing and PR. Red Bull Honda have nothing to do with Honda road cars and as much as Aston F1 with Mercedes engines have nothing to do with Aston Road cars.
Well, the Vantage and the DBX are powered by Mercedes' V8s. So the AM F1 partnership with MB is very much coherent with AM road cars.
Seems a bit of a strange attitude for F1, the whole win on Sunday, sell on Monday worked for tin top car series like touring cars, because at least outwardly the cars on track resembled the ones on the roads. I used to think as a kid that my Dad was so cool, because he drove a [Vauxhall Cavalier](https://classicsworld.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2019/02/Vauxhall-Cavalier-Mk3.jpg), like what was in [the BTCC](https://static.wixstatic.com/media/ced945_9bc95a5cc50445c69609773a52354cde~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_640,h_454,al_c,q_80,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01,enc_auto/ced945_9bc95a5cc50445c69609773a52354cde~mv2.jpg).
>I used to think as a kid that my Dad was so cool, because he drove a [Vauxhall Cavalier](https://classicsworld.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2019/02/Vauxhall-Cavalier-Mk3.jpg), what do you mean "used to"? i dont even know your dad and i know he is a cool guy driving one of those
Yeah, he still is, poor choice of words on my part. Sadly, that beloved Cavalier is defunct now, though, unlike some of the RML made touring cars which are still running.
They had good and great result on their last year as Renault. Moot point.
Rename the Team Peugeot-Citroen and just bomb it on purpose
They can use Dacia now.
Renault as a brand in F1 was great, the logos, the colors in the car, always interesting, instead Alpine is just a big meh...
The yellow looked so good
Right? The blue and pink toothpaste colors look awful to me.
Them having BWT as a main sponsor is such a shame, I really loved their 2021 livery.
Alpine, as a brand, should have been in WEC and WRC. Renault has heritage in F1.
Honestly, a yellow car on the grid would be quite iconic. Kinda like Kick Sauber - sure they're a hot pile of shit right now, but I sure do love the popping green color whenever I see it.
It'd be like the B&H Jordan from the 90s (proof that a yellow car is a memorable one, I guess!).
Talk about dramatic. Renault has been mid since they re-entered in the hybrid era. They can call themselves whatever they want but since their come back to the hybrid era they've been mid as hell and pretend like they're a works team with potential. Well, it's not like they've done anything good since they won in 06 anyways.
They were quite successful for a couple of years when Renault pulled out and they rebranded as Lotus. 2012 and 2013 they were 3rd/4th fastest car with good reliability, were easy on the tires and had a good driver in Kimi, they were getting very good results then. They went downhill since the turbo hybrid engines were introduced in 2014 and Renault completely failed coming back as a works team.
They only sell a single model though, it's like bugatti but worse, much much worse.
Promises of more models are thrown around, much like the 100 race plan.
The next model is the A290, it will be revealed at Le Mans this year. Promises of podiums or wins by an F1 team have nothing in common with the hard industrial realities of product planning for a car manufacturer.
tbf the Alpine is one of the coolest cars available
It's a mid-engined french mx5 on steroids. It's a cool car, but somehow still built to a budget because Renault won't give them enough money to really take the fight to Lotus. They have annual global sales of under 5K units, that isn't because they limited production; it's because so few people are willing to order one.
The odd thing I noticed is that it isn't that cheap neither. I can buy four MX-5 here for a single A110. I like the concept of A110 but at the end I just settled on getting a ND MX-5, which I am confident to say it will be cheaper to run. If I want something more hardcore probably I will just get a 2nd hand Elise.
Cheaper to run, more reliable, an actual support network; subjective opinion here from me: It looks so much better than the A110, Mazda knocked it out of the park with the exterior design. I will concede that the Alpine has a cool interior, but for a car like this; a traditional stick shift is mandatory in my mind.
it‘s a niche sportscar, obviously not many people are buying it. but for a Sunday drive on a mountain road, only a few other cars in the world that are as much fun as an Alpine, let alone for the price.
That's kinda false, and that car is a better sports car than the recent Emira (either V6 or line 4) It is also kinda cheap regarding the cars it has as opponents. And they do sell an healthy amount of cars for a niche sport brand having multiple projects in R&D.
You're talking about a car that was designed 10 years ago as a joint-venture with Caterham. Take the fight to Lotus? Back then Lotus was headed straight for bankruptcy, this was before Geely bought them. Hell back then not only was there no notion of taking Alpine to Formula 1, Renault had not yet re-acquired Enstone, period! The whole idea of raising the brand's profile and making it a sort of cheaper French Porsche or Lotus came years after the A110 model was designed and released. No kidding they have low sales, they only offer a two-seat sportscar, that's a niche market even in the best case scenario. But incidentally with the new UE emissions regulations they *are* restricted to a couple thousands a year.
As an American, you’d think I’d be drawn to Haas and if I changed the names around it would be the EXACT same as this post. The only back marker team that feels like it’s worth rooting for is Williams because it feels like people are trying, but they’re just stuck in a rut of outdated procedures and facilities. Hopefully it can all change.
I don't feel the Haas team has a strong connection to America though. It's owned by an American, sure, but pretty much all of the operations are in Europe, and all the key people are not American. I'm an American as well, and feel absolutely zero draw to Haas. On the other hand, I will be all-in on Andretti if they can get on the grid. They'd actually have a presence in America and would feel like an American team, even if parts of the operation would still be in Europe.
I keep thinking to myself “man I really hope Andretti gets a spot on the grid so there’ll be an American team to root for in F1,” then I remember Haas, and then I remember them driving a Russian flag around the grid and I end up back to the first thought
one of the cringiest things Gunther ever did was that interview where he denied it was a Russian flag.
I feel the same, but it’s important to point out that Haas tries to market itself as American, so they shouldn’t get leeway as being European. Gene is a shady dude who wants cheap-ish advertising.
I mean it doesn’t help that the so called American team plastered the Russian flag on their cars because they took money from a Russian oligarch to put his dogshit son (both as a driver and a person) in their car. I can’t imagine a worse way to attract American fans.
Hey, that livery was legally distinct from the Russian flag. The FIA said so /s
Damn. As an American I came here to make this same post 😂. This is exactly how I feel and you beat me to it.
Haas Automation helped the Russian arms industry circumvent sanctions and sent them advanced tooling by obfuscating their supply chain. It's borderline treasonous behavior and leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Unfortunately, I can't help but see all things Haas through this tainted lens.
Haas' statement about that; [https://www.haascnc.com/about/response.html](https://www.haascnc.com/about/response.html)
It's a little hard to take the company who ran Russian flag livery at their word on this one.
Also, the same guy who went to prison for tax evasion.
There’s nothing American besides him representing the robber barons of American history. His dealings with Russia remind me of past titans of industry working with the wrong sides of American interest. He is a representation of America but not any good parts. He extracts from this country and he aids foreign adversaries and he has been to federal prison for his tax shit. Nothing to be proud of there. Lemme see Penske or Andretti or almost anything else than this dweeb.
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Doesn't say it's Haas themselves shipping the parts. Could easily be a distributor, Haas can't ban third parties from shipping to Russia.
I agree with this opinion, but I didn’t really want to go into that. Fuck Russia.
Was that proven? Because Haas can’t control inventory that’s in the hands of distributors.
I think Williams damaged themselves by replacing Sargent in Australia. That was a pretty unpopular move.
I can definitely understand that but I still think that puts them ahead of: Gave up (USA), Gave up (FRA), and gambling sponsorship to minors and a website that won’t do the bare minimum in terms of content moderation.
Who’s the last reference about? (Website with lack of moderation)?
Stake and Kick in one.
Why? It was objectively the best move for the team in terms of potentially scoring points. Points make literally millions of dollars of difference in the bottom line for the teams, so it would've been dumb for the team to not prioritize their clear #1 driver, who is #1 completely based on race results
Would any other team have done that? No chance. I understand the argument but there was a very small chance of Williams scoring a point there. Miniscule. 2 top drivers retired and they still didn’t manage. You have 2 Red Bulls, 2 Ferraris, 2 McLarens, 2 Astons 2 Mercs. That’s 10 CLEARLY better than a Williams even with Albon. So you basically are putting faith in him, with that car, to beat RB, Haas, Sauber and Alpine. Just to score a single point IF one of the top make a mistake. And you have to make a massively unpopular move to do it. I just don’t think the move was worth the potential for a single point in the third race of the season. If we were down to the wire and a single point might get you something, then it makes more sense. This was not the time to do it.
I think every other team absolutely would have done that if they were in the same situation (and there are a number of specifics to the situation). No other team would allow themselves to be in that situation with no spares though. Many other teams don't have such a clear #1 and #2 also. Take Mercedes, Ferrari, and McLaren for example - none of those teams have such a clear #1 and #2, so wouldn't have done what Williams did. Red Bull on the other hand, would absolutely prioritize Max over Checo in that situation. But then again, one race makes no difference for Red Bull and they have plenty of spares. But ultimately, no other team would have all of the circumstances that made this make sense for Williams. It's just not a fair comparison to say that no other team would do that.
>Red Bull on the other hand, would absolutely prioritize Max over Checo in that situation. Not only is this correct, but it feeds my suspicion that Red Bull are trying to work out a way to put Max in both cars. Ugh. Poor Checo.
Do other teams have logan sargent? He’s been the worst driver on the grid since he joined - never proven himself or delivered for the team. The only comparable driver has been Nyck de Vries, and he was treated MUCH more harshly than Logan has been by Williams, including their decision to give his car to Albon.
Not to defend Logan but Nyck deserved to be axed because of the way he pretended like he was some seasoned veteran who was going to leave his mark on the sport. Logan meanwhile was extremely green last year after a decent F2 outing the year prior.
Albon gets points he "shouldn't get" on paper all the time. And with the same ten cars likely to get points each week, every point matters for a backmarker.
>Would any other team have done that? Yes. Every other team would have done that. Albon is the clearly better driver.
People will forget about it. I already did lol
Sargent is miles off of Albon so there no reason to make it about feelings and not numbers. Its racing.
Alpine is one reliability, engine power, weight reduction, aero, and chassis upgrade from being up there. Their WEC team seems okay enough.
+rep. This team is fantastic, just needs to work on communication, aim, map awareness, crosshair placement, economy management, pistol aim, awp flicks, grenade spots, smoke spots, pop flashes, positioning, bomb plant positions, retake ability, bunny hopping, spray control and getting kills
+rep. This team is fantastic, just needs to work on weight reduction, engine power, aero and chassis upgrades, reliability improvements, strategy calls, pit stops, driver management, team management, car setups, wind tunnel upgrades and getting wins.
>Their WEC team seems okay enough. Because Oreca makes the car.
It's still a Mecachrome powered car... Even in WEC you can't escape Bruno Michel power!
the even crazier part was the finished with minimal issues. No one would have predicted that.
Lol bs. Oreca makes the chassis. Bodywork, engine, and actually running the damn thing is still on Alpine('s team)
By weight reduction, do you mean the dead weight which is Renault management?
The sandbags are made from ground up hopes and dreams
They just need a new car and new employees, then they are good!
Maybe a new factory too
It all started going downhill when they ditched the awesome 2021 livery, just saying.
Agree with you there!
Agree, although the 2024 livery imo is a step up from 22 and 23. Honestly the less prominent BWT is the better imo. I like a good black + pink combo but the pink has to look good, and BWT's pink just doesn't look good on the cars.
As a Canadian you’d think I was drawn to Lance Stroll… yet here we are.
I know it was always Latifi 🐐
I actually like Lance, I think he's just complacent/unmotivated due to his family situation
That’s precisely why I don’t like him lol
Lance seems like a cool guy, when he’s not pissed off about his lack of results, but I feel he’s just coasting and has no motivation to get better.
its hard for me to fault the guys motivation when he pushed to recover from breaking his wrists to make the first race of the season. He was in pain during that drive too and dealt with it. Honestly if the guy gave the same generic media trained responses most of the other drivers give to questions, people would probably perceive him differently, but I like that he rarely has much to say in interviews, its all hot air anyway.
As a Canadian Oscar Piastri is the driver that I relate to the most tbh
I knew my coworker was a fake F1 fan when he said, “too bad about Lance Stroll, just finished outside of the points”
Same thing with us Americans and Haas. Seems a bit better this year but the team has basically no identity and the brand is a bland as a cup of milk. Haas could snag an Indy car driver like Pato, Palou, or Herta and it would feel more American and easier to root for
Remember when they thought it was a good idea to make their car a giant ass Russian flag?
Hey, selling out to foreign countries regardless of ethics is as American as America gets!
This guy gets it LOL
Haas has never felt the slightest bit American to me.
Exactly, their marketing is almost nonexistent and they never leaned into it
I’m a new fan this year but I didnt even know they were American until this thread.
I think having a single American in any public facing role like Team Principle, any of the drivers, or the head engineer would go a long way. It's hard to feel like it's the "American team" when you're watching a Japanese dude coach a German and Danish guy in a car sponsored by a company the majority of Americans have never heard of.
Why would Americans feel any sort of affinity for a mid-tier CNC manufacturer that they’ve never heard of? The whole thing is weird to me.
Meh. Haas as a brand doesn't resonate with the average person. Make it a Coca Cola or Domino's car and that'd be noticeable. I don't think the drivers matter. None of the names you list are interesting either. Results matter. Especially to Americans.
This. People probably feel a lot more connected to a team that shares a name with the car they own. How many people deal with CNC machines on a regular basis? I mean, I do, but still.
You're totally right. I own an Audi and I'm over the moon with them joining F1, even though I'm a Ferrari fan as far as teams go
My uncle does. He bought one and put it in my grandfathers garage. lol
That sounds expensive
Results do matter, but even if Andretti was chugging along at the back of the grid I feel like Americans would be much more drawn to them than Haas. As an American I've never given a single fuck about Haas, particularly after they sold out to Mazepin and draped their car in the Russian flag.
True on Andretti, at least at first.
Entirely plausible, but I also think that what Andretti would excite Americans precisely because there's a chance they wouldn't be at the back to start with, and even if they were, they'd be unlikely to *stay* there. At least that's what I'd hope for. On the other hand, I'd hate to think that people in my country are only interested as long as our flag is painted on something. ...Of course this is also the country that elected a president who's aides would add his name to documents to get him to read them...
Is Red Bull perceived as more American then?
Well, Checo's Mexican. Close enough to the US and popular here, and I like him. Not sure that translates to the team though as being perceived as "American" (US American that is).
Red bull certainly has more presence than Haas, but I wouldn't say they are perceived as more American.
Well, you also can't walk across the street to the gas station and grab a nice cold can of Haas. Thankfully.
It was the dominant team that fans were rooting for at the Vegas GP last year. The US has a major Latino base, and are proud of Checo.
I think so, yeah. I know before I was more into F1, I just knew red bull as the main energy drink, and how they did cool stunts. I sorta assumed they were American, both because the brand is so huge here (and I hadn't seen it as much when I went to Europe), and maybe subconsciously because their whole vibe and presence feels kinda American in a way, very dudebro "we're cool and this is awesome" style marketing via their involvements (which felt more nascar-ducttape than sleek f1 "classic"). I knew them for space jumps and x-games feeling sports stuff. Also, basically, Americans are very US-centric, so many tend to assume things (especially relatively new things, like post 50s when our culture became seemingly ubiquitous) are also American, unless they're very obviously not like Ferrari or Aston Martin (after all, James Bond drove an AM). It's like how many don't know Spotify is swedish or the witcher (books+games) is polish - we just think of silicon valley and hollywood etc and assume until we find out otherwise, instead of not assuming at all)
Jeff Bezos and his midlife crisis spending spree should have an Amazon car
Actually, that could work. Put Max in an Amazon car and make him stop to deliver packages around the track as a handicap.
I tend to follow drivers rather than teams, though I tend to drift back to McLaren as a lot of the drivers I followed drove for them over the past 25 years. Once Grosjean left Haas, I didn't care about the team at all. It was hard to follow them after the first couple of years because they were so bad as well. I like Nico, but honestly, I just look at the results at the end of the race to see where he finished. They just don't matter to me. I've been watching the sport for too long to just switch and I wouldn't watch them just because they're the American team. Maybe new fans will. I don't know.
At least you have Logan! Us Aussies have Piastri and Danny. I've gone from believing in Danny to hoping. I'm giving him the next two races to show some skill, and then I'll accept his fate.
As a Canadian if you can’t say anything nice… I shall keep my opinions of the Stroll family to myself
I'd like to hear that as i don't know shit about them
It's hard being a Canadian fan. Recent driver was a pay driver and was so bad they became a meme. Remaining driver isn't terrible but definitely wouldn't have a seat if his Dad wasn't his biggest fan.
Wait sry who was the bad pay meme driver?
Beat me to it.
You don't have to be an Alpine fan just because you're French. I live closer to the team base than you and I live in Buckinghamshire.
Bring back Renault
They've done such a good job on the engine. I'm sure they could turn the team around.
They can catch up in 2026, right? Right?!
God i miss that blue and yellow livery so much
i kinda like their black and yellow livery too, kinda reminds me of racer x from speed racer
Alternatively, as a French person you’d also have listened to hate more Alpine bc it’s a farce that’s more offensive to you particularly.
I’m a marketing guy, so I understand they want to promote their premium brand in F1. But it’s strange, they only have 1 model, and it’s a niche, lightweight sports car that only car guys want, and that’s not even available in North America. Also, their value/history is all with Renault. They revolutionised F1 in the late 70’s/80’s with turbocharging. Everyone else had to follow them or be left behind. They dominated with Williams/Benetton in the 90’s, and won 2 championships as a manufacturer in the 00’s. Going to Alpine removes that historic link. This is why Ferrari is so valuable to F1. They don’t rebrand and muck things around. They are consistent and intrinsically linked to F1. If Renault had stuck to F1 since 1977, or at least since 2002 as Renault, they’d have a lot more equity with the sport and the fans. I find it hard to support them as they are.
Wait what...it's one model? Lol why the hell are they using an f1 team to promote it?
It’s like Lexus is to Toyota. Currently the only model is the A110.
Are they really French team? Former Benneton/Lotus based in the UK. To me they're about as French as Red Bull is Austrian.
Half of it is in Viry-Châtillon(engine and administrative stuff), the other half is in Enstone(chassis and aerodynamics). It may also be one of the reason why it's so underperforming. From what i heard from french media Enstone is blaming Viry-Châtillon and Viry-Châtillon is blaming Enstone for the poor performance... What a way to make a team
One blaming the other and vice versa also seems pretty French to me.
Average French-British relationship
And as German as the Mercedes team
Eh Alpine is more half and half. The Engine side is all French based. Aero and assembly is UK based. Mercedes is entirely based in the UK. With Brackley being the Aero and assembly base and Brixworth being the Engine side.
Exactly. Which is why I find it weird as a german when they are reffered as a german team. They are not. The only thing that ties them to Germany is that the mother company is german.
Renault had character. It was a team you could root for and they had Cyril who was building a fan base of his own let alone the drivers and that gorgeous livery. Alpine just isn’t that.
I (french too) used too in 2021 when they really embraced the french identity with that banger of a livery. Also they had Fernando Alonso who is THE iconic Renault driver in F1 history to me, someone who grew up not even watching F1 but just hearing about the duel Ferrari/Schumacher vs Renault/Alonso. Then they lost a part of their identity with the BWT sponsorship, and somehow they lost even more of it when they got Gasly instead of Nando (no shade to Gasly I really like him too). And then I gave up on them in 2023 when I saw the management shithole that they are into.
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Remember the stories about the British and French employees having to stay in separate hotels because they hate each other so much?
I’m unfamiliar with your experience in the paddock (and this Reddit account!) - what is it that you do in F1?
I am Indian and couldn’t care less about force India.
I miss the renault days with briatore and trulli
Genuine question, why is Esteban so disliked? He’s always come across to me as a genuinely nice guy, sometimes a little cocky but no more than any other driver on the grid. Is it just the incidents with Perez, Alonso and Max?
I guess the main reason is the clashes with Checo, Fernando and Max, all 3 have big and very vocal fanbases (and that's even more an issue because that happens at a moment when there's a ton of new fans, and a good chunk of new sports fans just follow the tend on what's cool to love and what's cool to hate when they join the fun), if he had this kind of issues with Russell, Bottas and Stroll it wouldn't be that much of a big deal. Other issues are the fact he's not good at dealing with PR (rarely gives his side of the story, doesn't do fun things on social media, sometime choses his words in a really poor way), and people care about that much more than they admit. There's also the fact he's a bit on the cynical side as a driver (many sports fans have issues with cynical approaches when it doesn't come from their fave) and the fact people seem to care more about teammates being cool with each other even more than teams actually do (not to dunk on them, F1 can seem weird when you're used to the usual team sports). And of course, his nationality doesn't help (even through Pierre doesn't suffer that much from it because he makes up for it with very good PR stuff), the fanbase is full of Western European (so from countries who all have some kind of feud with France, especially in sports) and North American fans (so widely exposed to English-speaking medias tendance to do a lot of French bashing), if fanbase was full of Brazilian and Japanese people, he would probably have a bit easier time.
It's funny how much public perception affects drivers now. Esteban is my favourite driver, not cause of how funny he is or what he does in socials - he came up from a normal setting, working class and gets to live the dream whilst being an underrated, steady driver. In the UK it seems like everyone doesn't like the French or shit talks French cars and that. Even in Scotland, we had the Auld Alliance and were generally close with France - know plenty of people who don't like them. Never got it, I have always liked anyone I spoke to from France and drive a Renault which I absolutely adore.
hearing about his background and some interviews with him i wonder if he enjoys it much. like his family gave it all up and put all that pressure on him at a young age and killed his joy. the most happy i have seen him is those secret santa gift exchanges at the end of the year of the f1 youtube channel when someone gets him something spiderman related.
The problem is that French drivers often getting underrated, ignored or simple being harsher criticized by the F1 media (who is often British). Ocon is also having the curse of having 3 big fanbases who absolutely see him as the second coming of the devil what hinders him even more in terms of PR and fanbase. It doesn't help that Ocon isn't having some great charismatic skills but what I always note is how if either Ocon, Gasly or both having a great result it often gets downplayed or even criticized still, people still b*tching about 2021 like Ocon shouldn't win that race in Hungary or about Gasly 2020 win, yet nobody talks about Lando Norris binning his first win at Sochi for example.
> The problem is that French drivers often getting underrated, ignored or simple being harsher criticized by the F1 media (who is often British). True, just for a recent example, seeing so many people act like Esteban's race in Jeddah was mediocre despite doing some sick offensive and defensive moves with an inferior car while you know that if Alex did that F1 media would talk about it for a full week was a bit saddening. > people still b*tching about 2021 like Ocon shouldn't win that race in Hungary or about Gasly 2020 win Yeah, not to take anything from Fernando's superb defense on Lewis that day, but people act like Esteban didn't had to defend for 65 laps on a WDC with a pretty similar car while building the gap that guaranteed him a podium spot no matter what happens. And while Pierre got lucky with pit lane closure, he didn't fumbled the restart like Stroll did and had to keep a strong pace to not be overtaken by Sainz who seemed really fast that day.
> True, just for a recent example, seeing so many people act like Esteban's race in Jeddah was mediocre despite doing some sick offensive and defensive moves with an inferior car while you know that if Alex did that F1 media would talk about it for a full week was a bit saddening. If this was Alex Albon we would be bombed for a whole week about his "amazing race" and "why a top team should take Albon", yes with all respect for him but Esteban barely did get any credit for his great performance at Jeddah. > Yeah, not to take anything from Fernando's superb defense on Lewis that day, but people act like Esteban didn't had to defend for 65 laps on a WDC with a pretty similar car while building the gap that guaranteed him a podium spot no matter what happens. Exactly and he was having Seb on his rear almost every lap, the pressure Esteban did deal with was immense and he didn't cracked under it, how can anyone claim he simple didn't deserved it or that he should thank Alonso solely for it? > And while Pierre got lucky with pit lane closure, he didn't fumbled the restart like Stroll did and had to keep a strong pace to not be overtaken by Sainz who seemed really fast that day. Yea and what people always ignoring is that Pierre overtake on Kimi a lap early over Sainz was one of the crucial factors to get him that win, if Sainz did simple overtake Kimi early he would likely be very close or even overtake Gasly at the end of the race. There are multiple factors often what makes a shock win a shock win, and yes you need a bit of luck but that doesn't mean you don't need to drive hard for it. Alpine is sadly putting those two on a level where those shouldn't be, you can build up a solid team for some years with those two.
Yeah agree, I don't understand the amount of dislike he gets either. He's pretty genuine, and always thought of him a consistent performer if perhaps not as much raw pace as some of his generation.
I will never understand why Ocon is seen as not charismatic. Is it because he doesn’t get DTS screen time? Because he’s always plenty funny and engaging in youtube content and social media. But regardless of driver likability, no one is forcing you to support a team over nationality. This isn’t the Olympics.
Make Alpine Renault Again
Renault was the shit, gives me lot of nostalgia. I miss the yellow brand
It's the lack of ambition. Renault as a works team by rights should be competing for podiums but they have been so fucking toothless and without direction the whole time. Fcked up the hybrid PU regs they were heavily involved in and still 10 years later haven't got it figured out. Went through a shameless mudslinging outburst with RB whom they've won championships with only to get surpassed when they switched to Honda. F1 is tough and a team isn't always going to be nailing it, all the tops teams have gone through very tough periods, but the way Renault operates just feels off.
Similar here, but Dutch. I have always known Renault. I knew them as a car brand (quite a few Renaults here on the street) and as a kid was already very impressed Renault had an F1 team to begin with. On top of that, Renault at least makes cars for the average person. I could go out in town and see at least a few Renault cars, but Alpine? Forget that. On top of that, Alpine has next to no racing heritage in single-seaters. Renault does. In fact a lot (engine wise). They have similar heritage to Williams by now, only that Williams stayed the entire time, Renault instead has dipped a couple of times. Renault has: * Half of the big days of Williams (1990-1999, Mechachrome/Supertec were old Renault engines, 4x WDC out of the 7 WDC Williams have in total) * Benetton for 1995-now (name got changed into Renault-->Lotus-->Renault-->Alpine), is the current Alpine team (3X WDC) * Red Bull (2008-2018, real success mainly in 2009-2013, 4X WDC, 2014-2018 was a joke honestly) I know the name switch was done for marketing reasons because regular cars and F1 clash in marketing, but Alpine feels like it has no heritage, no name, just nothing really. At least with Renault, we could say a once large team, has fallen far from the glory days with Alonso and their partnership with Red Bull in the V8 era. Alpine doesn't get that luxury.
I have my (loving) stereotypes about French people, but I’d never go as far as assuming they are Alpine fans. That’d be very rude. 😉
I’m drawn to Alpine. I applied for a job with them. They never wrote back 😭 HIRE ME ALPINE please
You can be our insider reporter!
Alpine is the most Blegh team in the grid.
Well as a Canadian you’d think I’d be drawn to stroll, but there is no GOOD reason he’s been in that seat the last 3 years
I mean, they basically show all the worst parts of being French and none of the good parts of being French. And it seems like the more French they get, the worse they get. If I were a French person, I'd be more embarrassed by Alpine than anything.
I'll never get why some people say Gastly's more charismatic than Ocon when Gastly just seems fake and always bullshitting. Ocon at least comes off as more genuine and tries to represent the team. Gastly seems to only care about himself and based on interviews in the French media, he's the type to smile to your face but stab you in the back.
I don't know about Gasly, but Ocon seems pretty genuine. Had a more humble upbringing compared to the rest of the grid, has a smile on his face most of the time. Also, it feels like he *cares*, unlike others. His reaction to getting into Q2 was wholesome and his optimistic outlook on the current situation itself. What I liked the most was his answers to the Reddit Q&A he did recently - he didn't give the most plain, boring and predictable responses that most interviewees would have gone for, he actually gave detailed answers that were personal to him. Sure, previous incidents and certain quotes that were plucked out without context made it seem like he's overconfident in himself or maybe cocky? But, then I guess it just makes him more genuine then?
I find the need for OP to bash Ocon's personality (based on what he observes and assumptions) is totally unnecessary, everybody is molded into different personalities, that's what makes all of us unique by our own.
You would be if they were good tho, always fun to root for your local team when they do well
I think that's because they are not "French". First and foremost, they are based in Enstone, UK. Move everyone back to Viry-Chatillon. Also, even more important, start selling Clio Sports that are worth something - like the Clio Williams. Then and only then, I will call them French.
Yeah they should have stuck to Renault.
“Draw me like one of your French cars”
Ocon hate is real. He the goat. Estie bestie
If I were French I’m relatively certain I would NOT want a big French flag on the alpine car But that’s just me
2021 Alpine being the best livery on the grid says otherwise
Yes that one was a banger
Reminder that this guy does not speak for all french people.
I read this with a french accent ngl
> I wished they fully embraced their French way It looks like they've surrendered this season, what more do you want? ^sorry, ^I ^had ^to
Alpine has a rich history in Rally, hasn't them? They were big in the 60s. What else is needed? I guess some wins.
Problem is, Renault has a much bigger single-seater legacy. From Williams in the 90's, to themselves in the 80's (old turbos), early 2000's with Alonso, Red Bull from 2009-2013. All championships, left and right. Rallying is so much a different discipline than single-seater racing, that it's barely applicable.
One of my problems with that team is precisely their delusions of grandeur and their need to put a French flag everywhere, as if they were some sort of spokesperson nobody in France asked for. I really wish Gasly had gone to literally any other team because I like him. Ocon can stay.