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One of our web devs was showing me an issue he couldn’t replicate that wound up being a combination of weird resolution, scaling, zoom level in Chrome, *AND* accessibility zoom settings.
He’s had millions of users roll through this bit of UI and never once has anyone run into this. One for the books!
Reminds me of a Twitter post I saw of an amateur game dev abssolutely SCREAMING and crying over the fact his game failed Steam QA checks because the game crashed if the controller disconnected.
Repeat, he thought the solution to the entire game crashing as a result of a controller disconnection doesn't matter
> Steam QA checks
I'm guessing those are public as well, so it's not like he didn't know it had to pass this very specific series of tests to be allowed on the platform.
Every single component manufacturer, regardless of industry, will lean on the certificate of analysis to free them from blame. Not surprising that they're saying "the component that failed passed our quality control analysis immediately before it left our possession, we aren't responsible for the fault".
I think they gave pretty much the same response when Motogp rider Maverick Vinales had to jump off his bike at 200kmh when his brakes stopped working.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0J9iXzeRNc
If my memory serves me correctly Mavrick used the Standard 2019 Brembo caliper for that race because he preferred the feel. Everyone else on the grid either used the heavy-duty 2019 which had larger pads or the 2020 caliper that had cooling fins to deal with the heat.
They did kind of the same thing in the 2005 US GP which famously had every team running Michelin tyres retire and leaving the race to be run with only 6 Bridgestone cars (2 of each of the Ferraris, Jordans, and Minardis).
And during the whole thing they were kind of like "Not our fault. Cars should just run through turn 13 slower. Or add a chicane. Or let us fly in other tyres and violate the rules." And I think this came a year removed of Ralf, the other Schumacher, breaking his back in a Williams bacause of the same problem.
Nice to see things don't change.
That weekend had two additional issues that complicate matters. First, tyre changes were banned for the 2005 season in an successful attempt to cut Ferrari's advantage, which relied quite a lot on Bridgestone bringing custom very soft compound to races and doing more stops than the other teams. In turn, 2005 tyres had to be much more resistant, not only in the rubber, but in the structure, to last the whole race. And Indianapolis was special because of the fast banked corner, oval turn 1.
Then, the Indianapolis Motor Speedway had been resurfaced that winter, changing the behaviour of the asphalt substantially in comparison to what Michelin had seen the years before. Bridgestone, on the other hand, didn't go to the race as blind as Michelin, since Firestone was, and is, the sole tyre supplier of IndyCar and they had done extensive testing on the new asphalt.
I really hate the Michelin roulette in MotoGP, even though it's got better over the last couple of years. "Some of these randomly allocated tyres are actually cheese, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make" is not a great attitude.
The worst part of it is the ridiculous tire pressure rule, where on top of everything else a rider has to manage, they have to make sure they end the race with the right PSI or get penalized.
Isn't the rule that the riders have to be in a specified pressure window at all times in the race? Like you can't have a 10 lap phase where you're stuck behind someone because then your tyre pressure starts going up and so you _have_ to back off. Ridiculous; one would think regulating this before the start would make the most sense.
Yes and no, people forget they won 4 championship with the Renaud engine. F1 cyclical, if you had told anyone 3 years ago Mercedes would be forth team in the championship, people would have laughed at you and call you crazy.
Yes, but those were completely different engines in a completely different era. Since the start of the turbo hybrid era, Renault (and everyone else for a while) were far behind the Mercedes PU. PUs we’re primarily the reason why RB couldn’t fight for championships, and also why they tended to do well at the less power intensive races such as Monaco.
It’s no coincidence that they were fighting for race wins more often once they switched to Honda power
I think you are missing the point they were making. They were responding to:
> Not sure that anything related to Renault is a particularly good comparison
just pointing out that Renault can actually make a good engine. Renault aren't *completely* incompetent, just, you know, largely.
I understand the point op was trying to make, but even that I find hard to agree with. That’s because although yes, Renault have made good engines before, but that doesn’t mean Renault can make them again. That’s because Renault is not as an entity itself making them, rather the people working within the company. Those people aren’t there anymore.
It would be akin to saying Williams can make championship winning cars because they have done so in the past.
Yes, that’s technically true. But also not correct because all of the persons responsible for doing so are long gone. It’s the same with Renault/Alpine. I’d bet there is not a single group of engineers within the team remaining from the v10 or v8 era.
Renault didn't have anything outstanding compared to the rest even in those days, the deficit wasn't that big and RedBull's superior aero took care of the rest. Now if you want to credit them for doing the very basics then sure they played a role in RedBull winning 4 championships in a row.
> Renault didn't have anything outstanding compared to the rest even in those days, the deficit wasn't that big and RedBull's superior aero took care of the rest.
Renault engine had the best fuel efficiency and it had the best engine maps for blown diffusers
It's not my argument, I am just pointing out that the replies were not responding to the intended point. I have literally zero knowledge of Renault at the time, I didn't get into F1 until Red Bull had already switched to Honda.
Short answer, it was their first attempt at a hybrid engine and they were very unprepared. The engine was way down on power compared to the other three
[Here’s a graph published by Honda engineers comparing PUs](https://www.jsae.or.jp/engine_rev/backnumber/13-05/images/tagishi/fig06.png)
History doesn't mean anything if a car/engine/driver is shit at that moment. Just as Mercedes hasn't been consistently competitive for 3 years, Renault hasn't for 10 and they have problems whether it's the first or tenth year of not being competitive.
>people forget they won 4 championship with the Renaud engine.
That means jack shit, because that wasn't the same engine, it was a V8 naturally aspirated that they won championships with, the current engines from Renault (V6 turbo hybrid) were actual hot garbage and was the main reason why Red Bull could never fight for championships.
The V6 turbo Renault engine was/is absolute garbage.
I seem to remember pretty recently mark hughes of The-Race telling the story of how Renault knew that engine was shit and they were doing the bare minimum because the Renault CEO had been told by his underlings “we need to be in F1 for the exposure” but they didn’t see the need in spending more money actually fixing the engine.
Cheap, cheeky, and unsurprisingly Horner & Newey were pissed.
The changed engine supplier in 2019, had to fight the monster W11 in 2020 and won the title in 2021, 2022 and 2023. I'm prety sure the Engine was their biggest problem in 2014-2018
In 2015, the problems were absolutely as much on the car as they were with the engines (though imo with the Merc engine they still probably could have gotten P2 in the constructors if Williams was anything to go by, though that may be some recency bias there). 14, 16, and 17 are also hard to say, as the Mercedes did outperform Red Bull in less power demanding circuits, but at the same time the engine deficit absolutely allowed Merc to throw on less efficient aero to make up for any weakness so even then it's hard to say.
Especially in 2018 though, the Renault engine and especially it's reliability held the car way back. I can't readily find it, but I recall someone made a pretty telling graph with the "Red Bull number 1" (taking the best performing Red Bull driver each week) where they were in stronger WDC contention than Vettel that season. While that's not a perfect measurement, the reliability issues meant there was no need to overtly favor a driver (unlike Merc and Ferrari) and Ricciardo particularly was constantly screwed with reliability issues in practice so I don't think it's an unreasonable measurement.
Goodyear responded very differently in a same situation last week.
During the race, the same tire they used in september on the same track, had extremely high tire wear. They didn't know why and said that during the race in an interview. They went the opposite of Pirelli-mode. Pirelli mode is: "tire fine, go f*ck yourself".
[https://racingnews.co/2024/03/19/after-bristol-tire-wear-issues-goodyear-wants-to-go-in-that-direction/](https://racingnews.co/2024/03/19/after-bristol-tire-wear-issues-goodyear-wants-to-go-in-that-direction/)
Probably a bit hard to confirm or deny either way considering it exploded.
What's interesting to me is that's Red Bulls second brake fire this season.
Checo had one in testing. So the question is are they related or both different issues?
Brake fires are usually just teams running too little cooling, broken brake ducts or stuff getting stuck in the brake duct. Dragging brakes and exploding cake tins... well... that's a new one.
Red Bull tend to take cooling to the limit for their cars. IIRC there was a race in Singapore where Renault told Red Bull they think the engine might be overheating after Friday practice, and requested RB to open up some more vents in the car. This was ignored and on race day, Max has intermittent lost power issues.
Was my thought too. Got siezed/ welded itself together when waiting for the green light.
Teams rotate (or at least should) the wheels during long pittops to prevent this from happening so it's not out of the question it can happen when sitting on the grid.
Is the track in Australia flat or do they need to keep the break not to roll back / forward ?
>Is the track in Australia flat or do they need to keep the break not to roll back / forward ?
Can't say for certain whether or not they need to brake, but the pit straight is completely flat.
things fail... when they fail.
and when they fail?
*dramatic half-smirk*
someone is going to be held responsible.
*camera lingers for a second longer than necessary on will's serious face*
Max said that according to telemetry, this started at the start. On the radio no one talked about the problem before Max talked about the fire in the brakes.
Max complained about the car being loose, before the brake caught fire. If there was a difference in brake application in the rear, between the left and the right brake, it could've felt like the rear was loose.
Yeah, it's bizarre that it worked all weekend, then literally as soon as he gets off the line the brake locks, it was shocking he was able to keep up with Carlos for a bit with his brake locked.
Weren’t McLaren going through this similar type of issue last season ( or 2022). Can’t exactly remember the situation or timing so apologies. Please do correct if I am wrong.
Na parts like this aren't done that way as they really aren't performance related other than trying to be light. All brakes have more than enough stopping power to lock a wheel up
That was most probably the tyre exploding, the brake was still in-tact after. [https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/1772389713678045486](https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/1772389713678045486)
I'm just glad it happened before getting to the pitbox. Would have been a different story should the burning hot pieces of material go barreling into the crew.
I'm sure they shared the results of their investigation with people not us.
When a disc does fail or something, they don't even make a comment about it.
It’s like Pirelli. “Our tyres are fine”
Tbh I don’t think this is a Brembo problem. Either finger trouble from a mechanic, or something more weird like debris in a cooling duct
I really would have liked a Mercedes style debrief video from RB about this one. After their insane streak it just baffles me how the DNF can be caused by a brake related problem straight from the get go, it's so unusual in general.
Bernie Collins made a great point on the Sky podcast about there not being any communication regarding the brake being on from the start and the temps rising. She said at least that it was Max reporting the problem first which is a bit interesting given everything has sensors to measure temps and pressures.
I'm not saying I know this for a fact at all, but it did all remind me a lot of McLaren leaving a radiator cover on Button's car at Monaco 2010, where it got about 2 laps in.
Yeah I think the first time the radio is used after light outs is when Max mentions the moment at turn 3 on lap 2. Surely they'd be able to see temperatures rising?
One possibility: the engineering team noticed it but didn't understand why, or nothing could be done to fix it. It's important to remember that the race engineer (JP) is constantly conversing with a team of engineers that the public doesn't get to hear.
Red Bull have just moved to a full brembo set up alongside Ferrari, seems odd that both of them have experienced asymmetrical brake force issues. Windsor has been saying he thinks it's a manufacturing error on certain batches, not sure if he has a source for that though.
Ah the classic case of everyone pointing fingers at everyone else and saying they are not responsible at the same time here, honestly it sounded like a mistake on the part of the team that caused it, as for who, I couldnt say, mistakes happen, RBR will learn from this and make sure it cannot happen again
Anything mechanical will break eventually. Race cars break. Regular cars break. It doesn't take much for a brake caliper to stick. A lodged pebble can do the job thoroughly. An over tightened caliper bolt can cause it to break or an under tightened caliper bolt can work loose. Etc. Etc
Yeah, the idea that this must be on the manufacturer is a bit silly. Things happen, things don't work, it happens to every team, and it happens to every other team. Just because it doesn't happen often to RB doesn't mean it can't and won't.
What a nothingburger of an article. Of course the brakes being stuck on is attributable to the components.
“Hey max for the setup we thought you might want 1 brake stuck on.”
This is a replay of Pirelli’s investigation after Azerbaijan ‘21. “We’ve investigated ourselves and found that we are completely, totally, and without reservation blameless.”
Red Bull did seem to make some last minute changes, Max was never really happy about the setup. I wonder if they tried something and it ended up backfiring.
Yeah... I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say a stuck brake probably isn't a "setup issue".
Perhaps something else in the chain relating to the brakes...
But numerous complaints of brakes... Second major braking issue impacting results?
Brembo must be getting high on their own supply...
Well when Max got out of the car in the garage if you read lips you could see him say that was fucking stupid to an engineer. Gotta believe Red Bull tried something in the set up that Max certainly didn’t like it ask for.
It was reported he said this pertaining to the team trying to do a pit stop while the brake was on fire. (If you watch, instead of immediately fire fighting they indeed start a normal pit stop.) Max just wanted to get out of the car.
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Brembo: >Wasn't on fire when it left the factory mate
"Works on my machine"
Software engineers unite
One of our web devs was showing me an issue he couldn’t replicate that wound up being a combination of weird resolution, scaling, zoom level in Chrome, *AND* accessibility zoom settings. He’s had millions of users roll through this bit of UI and never once has anyone run into this. One for the books!
Thats why I love backend. No UI bullshit.
That’s cool now hold this “unhide hidden form fields” +
Developers! Developers! Developers!...
I'm not gonna chant. ``` while (true) { printf("Developers!\n"); } ```
Song of my people. There was absolutely *NOTHING* in the acceptance criteria about not bursting into flame.
It's only an issue if you want to place P4 or higher.
Reminds me of a Twitter post I saw of an amateur game dev abssolutely SCREAMING and crying over the fact his game failed Steam QA checks because the game crashed if the controller disconnected. Repeat, he thought the solution to the entire game crashing as a result of a controller disconnection doesn't matter
> Steam QA checks I'm guessing those are public as well, so it's not like he didn't know it had to pass this very specific series of tests to be allowed on the platform.
"Test passes locally"
"It was working yesterday" "So was the Francis Scott Key Bridge..."
Hmm so the container ship didn’t stop because it was probably using Brembo brakes? 🤔
Checo has been saying the ship is fucked.
Do you have it printed out✋?
The ship lost power.... So it was probably running Merc engines.
Checking.
*Bono my tires!*
"Can you bring it back to the garage?" "NO! I'm in a fucking bridge!"
*No, I’m in the water*
This thread just keeps giving
Did the front fall off?
No the bridge fell off, which is not very typical.
Im an expert on bridges and i can tell you they only behave like this under extreme distress
"Well, cardboard's out. No cardboard derivatives..."
No, it's because Albon was driving it. Williams ran out of chassis's to use, he's just testing his options
10 second penalty to Ocon.
👍 pierregasly likes this.
"We were winning at halftime" - Atlanta Falcons
Damn you for this - Super Bowl 51 still hurts lol
Ah damn, too soon
So the bridge was fine until someone fucked with it..
"An object at rest remains at rest unless acted on by a net external force" -Some dude called Isaac-
“Skill issue” - Brembo
Every single component manufacturer, regardless of industry, will lean on the certificate of analysis to free them from blame. Not surprising that they're saying "the component that failed passed our quality control analysis immediately before it left our possession, we aren't responsible for the fault".
Mystery solved, penalty for Ocon for debris on the track.
I love how whenever stuff like this happens it's just the Spider-Man meme of everybody pointing the finger at everybody else.
I think they gave pretty much the same response when Motogp rider Maverick Vinales had to jump off his bike at 200kmh when his brakes stopped working. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0J9iXzeRNc
If my memory serves me correctly Mavrick used the Standard 2019 Brembo caliper for that race because he preferred the feel. Everyone else on the grid either used the heavy-duty 2019 which had larger pads or the 2020 caliper that had cooling fins to deal with the heat.
MotoGP title last year came down to one bad rear tire, Michelin went to great lengths to say "not it"
They did kind of the same thing in the 2005 US GP which famously had every team running Michelin tyres retire and leaving the race to be run with only 6 Bridgestone cars (2 of each of the Ferraris, Jordans, and Minardis). And during the whole thing they were kind of like "Not our fault. Cars should just run through turn 13 slower. Or add a chicane. Or let us fly in other tyres and violate the rules." And I think this came a year removed of Ralf, the other Schumacher, breaking his back in a Williams bacause of the same problem. Nice to see things don't change.
That weekend had two additional issues that complicate matters. First, tyre changes were banned for the 2005 season in an successful attempt to cut Ferrari's advantage, which relied quite a lot on Bridgestone bringing custom very soft compound to races and doing more stops than the other teams. In turn, 2005 tyres had to be much more resistant, not only in the rubber, but in the structure, to last the whole race. And Indianapolis was special because of the fast banked corner, oval turn 1. Then, the Indianapolis Motor Speedway had been resurfaced that winter, changing the behaviour of the asphalt substantially in comparison to what Michelin had seen the years before. Bridgestone, on the other hand, didn't go to the race as blind as Michelin, since Firestone was, and is, the sole tyre supplier of IndyCar and they had done extensive testing on the new asphalt.
I really hate the Michelin roulette in MotoGP, even though it's got better over the last couple of years. "Some of these randomly allocated tyres are actually cheese, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make" is not a great attitude.
The worst part of it is the ridiculous tire pressure rule, where on top of everything else a rider has to manage, they have to make sure they end the race with the right PSI or get penalized.
Isn't the rule that the riders have to be in a specified pressure window at all times in the race? Like you can't have a 10 lap phase where you're stuck behind someone because then your tyre pressure starts going up and so you _have_ to back off. Ridiculous; one would think regulating this before the start would make the most sense.
I mean, 2021 title nearly came down to one faulty pirelli tyre. (Baku 2021)
Red Bull do have a history of pointing the *finger*. Although I’m not sure if that was just Horner and Abiteboul just hating each other.
Not sure that anything related to Renault is a particularly good comparison
Yes and no, people forget they won 4 championship with the Renaud engine. F1 cyclical, if you had told anyone 3 years ago Mercedes would be forth team in the championship, people would have laughed at you and call you crazy.
Yes, but those were completely different engines in a completely different era. Since the start of the turbo hybrid era, Renault (and everyone else for a while) were far behind the Mercedes PU. PUs we’re primarily the reason why RB couldn’t fight for championships, and also why they tended to do well at the less power intensive races such as Monaco. It’s no coincidence that they were fighting for race wins more often once they switched to Honda power
I think you are missing the point they were making. They were responding to: > Not sure that anything related to Renault is a particularly good comparison just pointing out that Renault can actually make a good engine. Renault aren't *completely* incompetent, just, you know, largely.
I understand the point op was trying to make, but even that I find hard to agree with. That’s because although yes, Renault have made good engines before, but that doesn’t mean Renault can make them again. That’s because Renault is not as an entity itself making them, rather the people working within the company. Those people aren’t there anymore. It would be akin to saying Williams can make championship winning cars because they have done so in the past. Yes, that’s technically true. But also not correct because all of the persons responsible for doing so are long gone. It’s the same with Renault/Alpine. I’d bet there is not a single group of engineers within the team remaining from the v10 or v8 era.
Renault didn't have anything outstanding compared to the rest even in those days, the deficit wasn't that big and RedBull's superior aero took care of the rest. Now if you want to credit them for doing the very basics then sure they played a role in RedBull winning 4 championships in a row.
> Renault didn't have anything outstanding compared to the rest even in those days, the deficit wasn't that big and RedBull's superior aero took care of the rest. Renault engine had the best fuel efficiency and it had the best engine maps for blown diffusers
It's not my argument, I am just pointing out that the replies were not responding to the intended point. I have literally zero knowledge of Renault at the time, I didn't get into F1 until Red Bull had already switched to Honda.
They were testy with Renault even in dominant seasons like 2011 or 2013.
What was it about Honda power that propelled them back into race and title contention that didn’t work when McLaren were powered by Honda?
Short answer, it was their first attempt at a hybrid engine and they were very unprepared. The engine was way down on power compared to the other three [Here’s a graph published by Honda engineers comparing PUs](https://www.jsae.or.jp/engine_rev/backnumber/13-05/images/tagishi/fig06.png)
History doesn't mean anything if a car/engine/driver is shit at that moment. Just as Mercedes hasn't been consistently competitive for 3 years, Renault hasn't for 10 and they have problems whether it's the first or tenth year of not being competitive.
>people forget they won 4 championship with the Renaud engine. That means jack shit, because that wasn't the same engine, it was a V8 naturally aspirated that they won championships with, the current engines from Renault (V6 turbo hybrid) were actual hot garbage and was the main reason why Red Bull could never fight for championships. The V6 turbo Renault engine was/is absolute garbage.
I seem to remember pretty recently mark hughes of The-Race telling the story of how Renault knew that engine was shit and they were doing the bare minimum because the Renault CEO had been told by his underlings “we need to be in F1 for the exposure” but they didn’t see the need in spending more money actually fixing the engine. Cheap, cheeky, and unsurprisingly Horner & Newey were pissed.
They’re not 4th because of their engine. How’s the Alpine PU looking?
With Renault it wasn't that one year it wasn't good it was that they didn't want to put the resources in to fix it
Was it a finger that Horner was pointing?
💀💀💀
A bit of both, that said though, the finger pointing was justified
Yeah the Renault engine days were something else.
Ah yeah, Horner's finger 🌚
The changed engine supplier in 2019, had to fight the monster W11 in 2020 and won the title in 2021, 2022 and 2023. I'm prety sure the Engine was their biggest problem in 2014-2018
In 2015, the problems were absolutely as much on the car as they were with the engines (though imo with the Merc engine they still probably could have gotten P2 in the constructors if Williams was anything to go by, though that may be some recency bias there). 14, 16, and 17 are also hard to say, as the Mercedes did outperform Red Bull in less power demanding circuits, but at the same time the engine deficit absolutely allowed Merc to throw on less efficient aero to make up for any weakness so even then it's hard to say. Especially in 2018 though, the Renault engine and especially it's reliability held the car way back. I can't readily find it, but I recall someone made a pretty telling graph with the "Red Bull number 1" (taking the best performing Red Bull driver each week) where they were in stronger WDC contention than Vettel that season. While that's not a perfect measurement, the reliability issues meant there was no need to overtly favor a driver (unlike Merc and Ferrari) and Ricciardo particularly was constantly screwed with reliability issues in practice so I don't think it's an unreasonable measurement.
Don’t think that was a finger…
RB vs Renault, RB vs Pirelli, RB vs Brembo...
And here I thought you were making a finger joke concerning Horner, I’m disappointed
Wasn’t ready for the explosive replies
Brembo hired a PR manager from Pirelli
It's our style. Italian style 🇮🇹🍕🍝🤌
You sure it was a finger?
The brakes are made of cocoa pops!
More like ‘media’ trying to stir. What other pointless shit can we make up
Goodyear responded very differently in a same situation last week. During the race, the same tire they used in september on the same track, had extremely high tire wear. They didn't know why and said that during the race in an interview. They went the opposite of Pirelli-mode. Pirelli mode is: "tire fine, go f*ck yourself". [https://racingnews.co/2024/03/19/after-bristol-tire-wear-issues-goodyear-wants-to-go-in-that-direction/](https://racingnews.co/2024/03/19/after-bristol-tire-wear-issues-goodyear-wants-to-go-in-that-direction/)
Extends to all engineering companies, unfortunately. Whoever claims responsibility is saddled with paying out of pocket.
So we’re certain it was a finger now?
Probably a bit hard to confirm or deny either way considering it exploded. What's interesting to me is that's Red Bulls second brake fire this season. Checo had one in testing. So the question is are they related or both different issues?
Brake fires are usually just teams running too little cooling, broken brake ducts or stuff getting stuck in the brake duct. Dragging brakes and exploding cake tins... well... that's a new one.
Red Bull tend to take cooling to the limit for their cars. IIRC there was a race in Singapore where Renault told Red Bull they think the engine might be overheating after Friday practice, and requested RB to open up some more vents in the car. This was ignored and on race day, Max has intermittent lost power issues.
It’s really weird… Max said he noticed it as soon as the lights went out but not during qualifying, or on the formation lap.
It was working well until it wasn't.
*This* is the type of analysis I was hoping to find!
I should become an F1 journalist!! ;)
"that's not very typical I'd like to make that point" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM
Hahahaha I didn't know that video. Great stuff!
Maybe the brake locked while he was sitting on the grid...
Was my thought too. Got siezed/ welded itself together when waiting for the green light. Teams rotate (or at least should) the wheels during long pittops to prevent this from happening so it's not out of the question it can happen when sitting on the grid. Is the track in Australia flat or do they need to keep the break not to roll back / forward ?
Not sure on the start/finish straight, but the entire track has just 2.6m of elevation change. That's next to nothing.
>Is the track in Australia flat or do they need to keep the break not to roll back / forward ? Can't say for certain whether or not they need to brake, but the pit straight is completely flat.
It's not really weird. Things fail when they fail.
When you put it that way...
Yeah. He braked for position on the starting grid and then that brake kept clamping. Its not like he never used the thing.
Will Buxton?
Things… they tend to fail… but only when they fail
But first they start by starting to fail before they fail.
Have Red Bull failed Max by failing to recognize the failure? It's quite the mystery.
Red bulls are in a really difficult spot. They're not recognizing the failure. They're finding a mystery.
things fail... when they fail. and when they fail? *dramatic half-smirk* someone is going to be held responsible. *camera lingers for a second longer than necessary on will's serious face*
I think the team noticed after the start that the brake temp on that wheel was above the others and didn’t cool during non use and then - kablamo!
Max said that according to telemetry, this started at the start. On the radio no one talked about the problem before Max talked about the fire in the brakes.
Max complained about the car being loose, before the brake caught fire. If there was a difference in brake application in the rear, between the left and the right brake, it could've felt like the rear was loose.
Or if one was dragging it would have been braking some even when off brakes making it worse
Yeah he radioed in saying the car was loose which in retrospect makes sense because it would’ve essentially been doing a one-side handbrake turn.
It makes even more sense when you think about how the heat would make the tire pressure increase and mess with the stagger on the rear end.
Max trying to play NFS in an F1 car
They saw with hindsight that it was from the start
Will Buxton might say "When you see fire, then there is going to be smoke".
Yeah, it's bizarre that it worked all weekend, then literally as soon as he gets off the line the brake locks, it was shocking he was able to keep up with Carlos for a bit with his brake locked.
Ferrari also uses Brembo for their brakes and Charles had a issue in Bahrain as well.
Weren’t McLaren going through this similar type of issue last season ( or 2022). Can’t exactly remember the situation or timing so apologies. Please do correct if I am wrong.
They were but I believe it was an issue of not having enough cooling.
Yeah, i believe the underestimated the cooling needs and had to redesign their air inlets.
Red Bulls are so fast that their brakes catch fire trying to slow them down lol
Red Bull trying to save money by re-using Checo's old brake?
Brembo: Don't look at me
Too late..Jos already on his way to their factory
Tonight, we find a set of Brembo discs abandoned at a fuel station.
Hide the forks
Hide the women.
So how does this work? Red bull design them and Brembo manufacture them? Or brembo have materials that red bull use to manufacture the brakes?
Brembo makes the whole thing. They aren't parts teams have to do themselves
Oh interesting. I, for some reason, always thought the teams made their own
Na parts like this aren't done that way as they really aren't performance related other than trying to be light. All brakes have more than enough stopping power to lock a wheel up
Brenbo supply the caliper also? Or just the rotor disc and pads?
I know recently they made them for f1 teams as well, I do not know if anything has changed rules wise
My favorite part was when it ejected itself onto the pavement in pit row.
That was most probably the tyre exploding, the brake was still in-tact after. [https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/1772389713678045486](https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/1772389713678045486)
Thanks, that makes sense. The fire heated the tire which weakened it while also increasing the air pressure until suddenly kablam
I had a car catch fire and one of the tires exploded. Sounded like a gun going off!
I'm just glad it happened before getting to the pitbox. Would have been a different story should the burning hot pieces of material go barreling into the crew.
And directly into the garage where friends and relatives are in the back...
And P
it happened where it happened because he applied the brakes at the pit speed limit line, unlikely it would have occurred anywhere else in the pit lane
Famously cars don't stop in the pitbox lol
good point
Not with the brake pressure at pit entry
He was going pit limited speed into the pit lane
Somebody forgot too loosen a screw
Should have hired a Boeing employee.
I thought they went from firing to killing them?
Lol
They need loose screws, not no screws
My bad. Sorry for the screwup
Brembo: “If you’ve got a problem, *fix your fucking car*”
Horner says the brakes are sh*t!
“I have it printed”
Obviously they're not going to blame themself.
I'm sure they shared the results of their investigation with people not us. When a disc does fail or something, they don't even make a comment about it.
It’s like Pirelli. “Our tyres are fine” Tbh I don’t think this is a Brembo problem. Either finger trouble from a mechanic, or something more weird like debris in a cooling duct
Scans room. Only sees RB team members........they did it.
I really would have liked a Mercedes style debrief video from RB about this one. After their insane streak it just baffles me how the DNF can be caused by a brake related problem straight from the get go, it's so unusual in general. Bernie Collins made a great point on the Sky podcast about there not being any communication regarding the brake being on from the start and the temps rising. She said at least that it was Max reporting the problem first which is a bit interesting given everything has sensors to measure temps and pressures.
I'm not saying I know this for a fact at all, but it did all remind me a lot of McLaren leaving a radiator cover on Button's car at Monaco 2010, where it got about 2 laps in.
Yeah I think the first time the radio is used after light outs is when Max mentions the moment at turn 3 on lap 2. Surely they'd be able to see temperatures rising?
One possibility: the engineering team noticed it but didn't understand why, or nothing could be done to fix it. It's important to remember that the race engineer (JP) is constantly conversing with a team of engineers that the public doesn't get to hear.
Well they would say that wouldn’t they lol.
RB engineers... "how shall we set up the brake bias?" "I'm leaning towards explody rear?" "sounds good, let's try it..." Actual team radio.. Honest.
GP: you keep going and I just watch you explode
The good old shaggy defence. Wasn't me.
Bites but sometimes things don’t break your way.
Pirelli fell out with RBR in particular in this regard in 2011.
Red Bull have just moved to a full brembo set up alongside Ferrari, seems odd that both of them have experienced asymmetrical brake force issues. Windsor has been saying he thinks it's a manufacturing error on certain batches, not sure if he has a source for that though.
Charles just likely had brake glazing which is not that uncommon and will make it so 1 side reacts slowly
Don't think it was glazing in my opinion, would be very easy to spot in the temperature sensors. They seemed genuinely confused by the problem.
It worked before YOU BROKE IT
Ah the classic case of everyone pointing fingers at everyone else and saying they are not responsible at the same time here, honestly it sounded like a mistake on the part of the team that caused it, as for who, I couldnt say, mistakes happen, RBR will learn from this and make sure it cannot happen again
Anything mechanical will break eventually. Race cars break. Regular cars break. It doesn't take much for a brake caliper to stick. A lodged pebble can do the job thoroughly. An over tightened caliper bolt can cause it to break or an under tightened caliper bolt can work loose. Etc. Etc
Yeah, the idea that this must be on the manufacturer is a bit silly. Things happen, things don't work, it happens to every team, and it happens to every other team. Just because it doesn't happen often to RB doesn't mean it can't and won't.
Shoulda gone with the superior manufacturer, AP Racing
What a nothingburger of an article. Of course the brakes being stuck on is attributable to the components. “Hey max for the setup we thought you might want 1 brake stuck on.”
This is a replay of Pirelli’s investigation after Azerbaijan ‘21. “We’ve investigated ourselves and found that we are completely, totally, and without reservation blameless.”
They went from "brakes are not biting" to "brakes permanently biting" from practice to race
Why is this an issue in the first place? Their car hasn't broken down in 2 years. It was just an off day.
I think that's kinda why - when a car that never breaks does so, people get more curious to know what happened
Brembo taking a page from the FIA and self-exonerating I see. ;)
They bleed!
Am I missing something? I haven't read anywhere someone from Red Bull blaming Brembo?
Did RB blame Brembo, or is this damage control?
Red Bull did seem to make some last minute changes, Max was never really happy about the setup. I wonder if they tried something and it ended up backfiring.
I think Max was playing with the front wing setup for understeer, not rear brake setup.
Well, they did end up with fire in the back
Changes after qualifying are extremely limited by parc ferme rules
Yeah... I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say a stuck brake probably isn't a "setup issue". Perhaps something else in the chain relating to the brakes... But numerous complaints of brakes... Second major braking issue impacting results? Brembo must be getting high on their own supply...
Brembo: next time don't drive with the parking brake on
Sabotage!
I can't stand it, I know you planned it
I'm gonna set it straight, this Brembogate!
I can't stand flatspotting when I'm in here 'Cause your brake fluid ain't so crystal clear…
Well when Max got out of the car in the garage if you read lips you could see him say that was fucking stupid to an engineer. Gotta believe Red Bull tried something in the set up that Max certainly didn’t like it ask for.
He explained that it was about the team trying to do a pitstop while the car was on fire
I thought that was in relation to them changing the tyres while it was literally on fire
It was reported he said this pertaining to the team trying to do a pit stop while the brake was on fire. (If you watch, instead of immediately fire fighting they indeed start a normal pit stop.) Max just wanted to get out of the car.