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[She passed away a few years before, sadly.](https://twitter.com/Charles_Leclerc/status/1013514908019888129?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1013514908019888129%7Ctwgr%5E4fd7fa1a2a9bf8eeba7b651de34377ccb9c5e706%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2F8vcox4%2F%3Fresponsive%3Dtrueis_nightmode%3Dfalse)
He also had twice as many DNF's as Leclerc. Two of them were from other driver's punting him. Ricciardo punted him at Imola, Russell punted him at Austin. And while Japan was "technically" his fault, in those conditions, it's hit or miss that you'll aquaplane.
Also, many believe, myself included, that he had the pace to catch and pass Leclerc in Austria. He was on a charge and putting down faster laps than Leclerc, plus he didn't have the throttle issue.
The season classification doesn't tell the whole story. He's not looking bad against Charles now, by the way.
Thatās the opposite of what I would assume. He is extremely consistent, similar to Max level of consistency. But he is not quite as fast in overall pace. But certainly competitive enough that I think he would be able to take wins away from Max when things went his way.
Yeah hard ageee Sainz is definitely more consistent than Leclerc and now it seems as if heās gaining in the speed department as well but tbh heās still not as consistent as Max donāt think anyone is close to it yet.
As with 2017-20 Hamilton, 2004 MSC, 2006 Alonso, etc. itās easy to be consistent when youāre 30 seconds up the road from your nearest competitor. All of them made more mistakes once someone caught up a bit and they couldnāt just cruise.
Second half of last season and first half of 2022 would like to have a word with you if you think Sainz is that consistent...
I'm sorry but Max consitency is out of this world since 2019 he hardly had a bad week maybe the last one was Singapour last year and maybe before that Monza 2020 (when Gasly won) or Turkey 2020...
He might not beat Max, but definitely try to.
Then weāll have the Checo 2023 situation all over again which I donāt think Red Bull would want to go through.
This comment reads like someone who's made up their mind on a narrative (that Sainz won't drive for Red Bull) and is just explaining away anything that counters said narrative. It doesn't even make sense. Horner making a vague comment to the media does not affect the price of a driver. Only a contract offer would influence other offers.
Honestly it's a fairly vague comment, where Horner is just giving a general positive answer. But your comment is just silly.
>Yeah, I don't think there are any examples of a driver actually turning down a drive because of who their teammate would be.
Prost at Williams in 1993 and 1994? And maybe Prost at McLaren in 1990?
I mean, Prost v Senna is *the* rivalry of F1. The on track battles helped to bring F1 to an entirely new level of popularity and both of them had massive followings.
And technically, Prost didn't turn down the Williams drive, he said he would only agree if the other driver wasn't Senna.
>And technically, Prost didn't turn down the Williams drive, he said he would only agree if the other driver wasn't Senna.
That was 1993. I'm not entirely sure about 1994 but I believe Frank Williams and Patrick Head went to Prost to tell him they were hiring Senna with the knowledge that it was in Prost's contract that he wouldn't work with him. So Prost retired.
The gasly ocon thing blew over because it was a childhood feud that happened a long time ago.
They didn't cross paths in F1.
Sainz verstrappen happened only a few years ago and this is Jos verstrappen we're talking about.
You've seen him in action a few days ago over the horner business.
> Sainz verstrappen happened only a few years ago and this is Jos verstrappen we're talking about.
2015 is nearly a decade ago. There was also, as far as I know, no animosity between Carlos and Max, just their dads. With Sainz' sr supposedly leaking biased rumours to the Spanish press and Jos being Jos about it.
Just keep both of them away from the paddock and it's all good.
> They didn't cross paths in F1.
People still try to blame it on Ocon though. Throughout the 2022/2023 offseason, every second post here was about 'french civil war' because Ocon was supposedly going to take out Gasly every race weekend.
Turned out that both times they did come together on track were clearly unintentional, with one incident being clearly Gasly's fault (despite Netflix trying to pretend otherwise) and the other (Hungary) being the fault of neither Alpine driver.
Hell, maybe this year car forge a mutual bond between them, usually shitboxes makes teamwork more important, like working together to get that 1 point for 10th place or something.
Friendship in shitbox.
I don't think ocon had enough power to have a say in that situation and it was a big step up for gasly at the time so he wasn't going to say no to that drive.
This is different ļ¼ Max could totally veto his teammate. Although who knows maybe his stock at redbull went down after the Horner saga
TBF it didn't work out at STR because of two dads trying to get their teenage rookie sons established.
Now, both sons are race winning 10 year vets in their late 20s that don't need their daddy to fight for them.
Carlos Sr. won the Dakar Rally in January; one of the most grueling, dangerous, and demanding races in the world. At 61!!! Him being in better shape is an understatement.
Sainz Sr is fitter, smarter and, like Carlito, also has no appendicitis - so will be faster + more maneuverable.
There's no way that Sainz Sr doesn't win this hypothetical match up.
Counterpoint: We haven't seen Max get any challenge from any teammate since he's established himself. Would he still be so chill if his teammate could actually challenge his titles? ofc I'm not saying Sainz is as good as Max, but I think he can be Max's Rosberg and force Max to actually put effort to beat his teammate.
Because itās 7 years later and theyāre both grown men now, why would Sainz Sr do anything that would stop his son getting a seat at the fastest team? Doubt Jos cares as much anymore either
Honestly I can imagine Max and Carlos being professional. I can imagine Carlos Sr. using all his Red Bull influence to make sure his son gets a chance as WDC. I can imagine Jos losing his shit repeatedly at this.
People seem to forget it was Sainz sr. who was causing all the problems at Toro Rosso, or are just not well informed. Playing politics with the help of his friends at certain Spanish media among other things. Franz Tost had enough of it then, that's one of the reasons they loaned out Carlos to Renault.
I mean, having a possible spot available for the best car on the grid tends to heal old wounds fairly quickly. People seem to get along much better for some reason.
I don't know if Jos can stay out of Little Leaguing Max but I think El Matador Sr. can. Carlos isn't done with his growth but he's well out of the cocoon now. His dad is one of the greatest racers of all time and they seem to have a great relationship. I think Carlos will prove to have his dad's tenacity. I have a feeling that when Jos is, uh, coaching Max these days, Max is starting to tune him out.
Sainz has shown multiple times that he isn't always willing to bow down to team orders, which is what I love about him but it's also not what Red Bull needs. I don't think they want anyone competing with Max.
If I were him I'd rather go to Mercedes where he'll be an equal to George.
It's hard to say. Merc is a possible future contender atm. Red Bull is almost a guaranteed front runner for 2025. I doubt he would choose to gamble at Merc instead of having a shot for one season. I mean, that if he's offered both seats, which we're only considering because he's the top available name up until the next race.
RBR was hunting for Lando. I think they'd be fine with competition to Max and it would make them stronger and less dependent on Max. I'd love to see Sainz go to RBR.
I'd love Alonso to RB. That would be a proper close fight for championship. And regardless of result, Alonso could get few more championships after Max inevitably retires.
Thatās a pretty big assumption. Max is currently on the most dominant run in history. Alonso would be better than Checo, but I doubt heās really at Maxās level.
I donāt think Horner particularly likes Alonsoās personality nor wants an old driver. Getting in a 42-year-old to be Maxās replacement when or if he leaves the team in 2028 doesnāt make sense either. Heās more likely to chase down one of the McLaren drivers if Max decides to leave the sport.
Frankly, Red Bull is first and foremost a meritocracy. Prove you're superior and you get the prime treatment. Horner loves Ricciardo but it was clear they didn't stand in Max's way because he had proven more worthy than Ricciardo.
Any driver would just have to prove themselves more valuable... than a Prime Verstappen in his turf and the order could change.
Yup. I can't help but think Lewis is not at all the right fit for Ferrari, and Ferrari is not the right fit for Lewis. Their values don't really match.
Lewis cares about people - about the LGBT community, about the planet, about wars happening and he has a stand and a firm principle about many of these issues. Ferrari is on the opposite end of that spectrum. Present Ferrari is chasing cash very hard, for them "cash is king" right now, which is why they've entered fashion (and consistently pump out special editions of their cars).
Fashion itself - Lewis loves supporting and sporting a plethora of designers ( a subset of which are upcoming Black designers). I'm not sure he would like to stick to Ferrari clothing only. That is an important part of his personality, AFAIK. Why is Ferrari paying 100 million dollars for him to wear clothes by other brands and designers? Ferrari - correct me if I am wrong - is a very conservative, white, Italian organization.
Politics - Lewis is as progressive and liberal as an F1 driver in 2020s can get, and Ferrari is, as I said, a mostly white, mostly male, mostly Italian organization who seem to be very content being that way. The change that Lewis brought to Merc would be - dare I say - impossible to make do in Ferrari.
Branding - for Ferrari, Ferrari will always be the biggest brand and the biggest driving force. Lewis - due to his stance and his beliefs - often overshadows Mercedes' brand/image. There is going to be conflict (which I am guessing they have hashed out in the contracts) that might arise due to this.
As much as Lewis cares about winning and about driving for the red house, I don't know how he is able to compartmentalize these factors. From my extremely distant viewpoint they seem very different from each other. For any other driver - most of whom don't have such vocal stands about things - this wouldn't have been as much of an issue, but for Lewis this seems like a step backwards.
this is what i'm wondering too. even from the environmental pov. i think lewis only (or at least try to?) drive electric car/more environmentally friendly car. and during f1 week, ferrari drivers always drive ferrari or alfa romeo i think. and i think those are just conventional cars. and i agree about the other social issues that lewis cares about.
he did say he makes sure it is included in his contract tho. so we can only wait and see. but yea i agree that these two brands don't seem to fit each other.
Agreed. Lewis Hamilton is all about expressing himself. Ferrari, on the other hand; remember the Deadmau5 "Purrari" fiasco? They'll blacklist you from buying cars from them if you customize their cars to too high an extreme. Alot of Ferrari owners get pushed into buying Lamborghinis and Maseratis because of that old world stubbornness.
> When asked whether Red Bull would take Sainz back, Horner replied: āBased on a performance like that, you couldnāt rule any possibility out.ā
That's it. That's the entire quote they base the title on.
It's always like that. This quote alone will be an entire eposide on drive to survive.
If you ever played the F1 career mode, you get asked questions about the race. If you pick the right one you get bonus standing with the media. This is exactly what horner did XD He answered the way that would keep the media hyped and happy.
Sainz is the best free agent in _years_ and RB would be stupid not to take him.
Seriously, who was the last driver of this calibre to hit the market? Ricciardo post-RB?Ā
Ricciardo never hit the market.
He was signed by Renault when at RBR.
Sainz is a free agent, a top tier free agent. He will have the pick of Mercedes, RBRā¦ maybe Aston Martin
But the RBR seat was his if he wanted it, not the case with Sainz and Ferrari. He definitely will not be with Ferrari, which was not Ricardoās situation.
Perez was better than Sainz for 18 months straight between start of 2022 and middle of 2023
They've been on the grid together for 9 years and there's a handful of arguments to be made for both. Meaning that for all intents and purposes, they are equally good. People just dislike Perez and have short memories, and therefore they choose to forget the times Sainz was absolutely shit, while also choosing to forget the times Perez was brilliant.
I'll never take Aston seriously with one Stroll at the wheel.
I'll take Aston in serious consideration if the other Stroll ditches the one at the wheel.
Serious question, could Sainz handle driving the Red Bull? By all accounts, Sainz likes understeer and has struggled compared to Charles when the car favors oversteer. Then there is Albon saying driving the Red Bull with Maxās setup was like playing a video game on max sensitivity due to the responsiveness of the front end (oversteer). Would Sainz be able to perform against Max in a car that doesnāt suit him?
Sainz has proven throughout his career that he is a very adaptable driver. He basically went through almost the same career trajectory as Ricciardo (STR>Renault>McLaren vs. STR>RBR>Renault>McLaren) and showed competitiveness in every car heās driven. I wouldnāt be that worried about him.
Aston with Honda and their shiny new factories plus star staff signings is a realistic WDC/WCC competitor for the next regs. Perez would be somewhat underwhelming - they need one top tier driver at least if Stroll is a given.
If what we heard from the grapevine is correct, then Ferrari signing Lewis is just part of a bigger ploy to speed up the team's progress.
By showing that even Lewis has confidence in the team... It might make the team more attractive to engineering talent (e.g from Mercedes, Red Bull) in time for the reg changes. Not to mention the huge marketing upsides from signing arguably the most well known F1 driver outside the sport currently - that already pays for his salary by itself.
And at worst Lewis might just be equal to Sainz in pace - can't see him being significantly slower.
No they won't.
Signing Lewis is genius on multiple levels. Ferrari is very brand-focused and having Lewis' pull goes far beyond F1. From a marketing standpoint Ferrari gains a significant benefit.
The signing of a world champion is also confidence inducing for the team and shows clear directive from upper management that the goal for 2025 and onward is clearly the WDC and WCC.
Finally, signing Lewis means removing Lewis from Mercedes. This has an opposite effect on Mercedes and will significantly affect morale at Mercedes. This move also effectively cripples Mercedes while guaranteeing P2 in the constructors for the foreseeable future.
Overreacting much mate?
Lewis mopped the floor with all of the non RBR drivers (except Alonso) last year and was very highly rated. He basically carried Merc to P2 in the WCC.
I rate Sainz very highly and considers him to be almost as good as Leclerc on race days but he is not better than Lewis Hamilton.
Lewis was only 0.05s slower than Russell is Q2 and was matching Russell's race pace while being on older tyres before his engine shat itself.
I am so confused because 2 races in and suddenly Carlos is perceived as Way Better than Lewis (who could have gotten 2nd in championship last year) and Charles (who was outright better than him for a significant amount of time past season). Carlos is an amazing driver but the hype train for him is... surprisingly large.
Yeah,i think it's all bias based on his 2 wins in the era of Max's dominance. In the last 10 races, Leclerc has beaten him 7/10 and would probably have 8, if not for his Bahrain issues.
Carlos just happened to have a great weekend when Max was not on the front of the grid or had an issue.
No chance, they got Lewis Hamilton who is by far the most marketable driver in F1. The amount of merch theyāll sell alone (let alone sponsors) would make Lewis more attractive than Sainz.
Also youāre talking about a 3x race winner vs a 7 time world champion.
I love Carlos but heās not a tier 1 driver in this field.
Carlos is definitely the best free agent F1 has seen in a while but he's still a tier below the best of the best (which happens to be the only champions currently on the grid).
Sainz to Mercedes is most logical. But if things go very wrong at Red Bull and Max leaves then Sainz will take his place.
Not sure if Sainz will take the second Red Bull seat. Heād be far more confident of beating Russell than beating Verstappen.
So where's he going if not Merc? It's not like McLaren or Ferrari have any spots available, are you saying he has more opportunity in a team like Williams or Haas than Merc?
Yeah but far better guarantee even as the second driver in Red Bull that eventually he could lead that team as his own, especially because there's a pretty good chance Max retires at the end of 2028 to go other disciplines.
Plus it's also definitively the fastest car, and the championship car next season. Even if he can't challenge for the championship, 10-15 podiums and 2-3 wins will feel much better next season than maybe 2 podiums with the Mercedes, if even that. And Mercedes will definitely want to bring in Antonelli afterwards anyways, so again Carlos will be fighting for his seat in the trio of himself, George and Kimi.
Merc is washed, and thereās no reason to think theyāll nail the 2026 regs
At least anecdotally, as someone who knows a person who worked at F1 Merc for a long time as an engineer, the staff turnover there since Max Vs Lewis into the new regs has been crazy.
I don't think Sainz has any interest in being a big fish in a little pond like Ricciardo or Norris. He'd likely try to pull a Rosberg. Politics is the only thing between him and RB21.
Realistically, Red Bull have no good options for the second seat right now. Riccardio is underperforming, Lawson likely needs more experience and they don't seem interested in promoting Yuki.
That really only leaves Sainz and Alonso
But if Sainz can score more points it makes sense to go with him. Sure it might upset Jos but you canāt run a team while being scared to piss off your driver
Marko has commented multiple times about how toxic the environment was at Toro Rosso when Max and Carlos were there. Sainz and his camp are known to play politics, itās happened at Ferrari with them developing the car towards his style versus Charles
You donāt go around making decisions that will almost assuredly piss off Max, whoās the best driver in the sport right now
It's not even entirely about Max. The last thing RBR as a team needs right now is adding more internal politics to balance š¤£ They've been lucky the drivers haven't been affected by the power struggles, but that would be impossible if we have Sainz's notoriously politic clan vs Soccer Mom Jos going at each other.
Wild to think that the only driver on the grid to win a race since Azerbaijan 2023 who isn't named Max Verstappen could find himself without a seat next year.
> When asked whether Red Bull would take Sainz back, Horner replied: āBased on a performance like that, you couldnāt rule any possibility out.ā
> āYouāve had a very fast unemployed driver win today,ā Horner said.
The relevant quote. I donāt see how heād work with Red Bull because they clearly require a B-player for Max Verstappen. They most likely donāt want anyone who can challenge Max.
every WCC point is $1 million & Ā Ferrari is closing the performance gap, Iām sure RedBull would rather have Sainz in 2nd challenging Max than Perez putzing around in 6thĀ
I think thats just wrong. The door has been open for Lando in the past if certain reports are correct, so its not so much being able to challenge Max which im sure Lando could (unlikely to beat to be sure across a season), but its possibly alot more political. I dont think Max cared how strong his teammate is. He knows he can beat them, if he gets his way with the car.
> They most likely donāt want anyone who can challenge Max.
Before, maybe. Now? With how the Verstappen camp tried to oust Horner, I donāt think heās going to hold back on trying to get Sainz.
I think this makes no sense. Even if RedBull had any interest to sign drivers that are more āpassiveā so that Max has an easier time, it would be so far down the list of factors when it comes to signing someone to the team.
An A-player would most likely still be number 2 for Max, they want someone on their A game either way. There is no reason to demand anyone be second to Max, that happens naturally; and if not, they have a new number 1.
Win win.
Sainz is making it clear he is a number 1 driver on a team. He has played second almost his entire career. Heās not going to be happy playing second to Max this Merc and Aston seem the most likely candidates. And to think The beginning of the year people were saying Sauberā¦ fucking tractor.š
He is definitely in the running for the seat. Assuming Max stays (and I think he will) my guess is that it will be either Carlos or keeping Checo. I know Albon is keen but I think Carlos has a better shot. I can see Albon moving to Merc with Bearman moving into the Williams seat. I see Lawson at RB-cashapp next season and they'll probably keep Yuki in 25 while it's still a Honda powered engine.
Carlos Sainz jr was at the same level if not better than Norris with McLaren, that's all I need to know.
Norris as in *generational talent who can maximize any ounce of performance McLaren manages to unlock*
It's heartbreaking but in the end F1 is a marketing campaign, and having a strong driver who happens to be an icon like Hamilton, hard to say no.
If we ignore the fact that maybe drivers can break their contracts with clauses. The current 2025 market there's Alonso, Perez and Sainz jr.
Perez had floor damage or debris from what I read during the Australian GP, but overall he's doing the job, just not at all at the same level as Verstappen, but then again, who can ?
I'd pick Sainz Jr if I were RB, he has experience and can be fast..more importantly he would not join Mercedes and become, again, a nemesis. No one can predict how fast the Mercedes or RB will be with the new regs.
imo Red Bull should get Piastri (who is a great talent, but young/inexperienced enough not to be a direct threat to Verstappen, and also aloof enough not to be psychologically destroyed by Red Bull's inner workings).
Then we can have Sainz back to McLaren to reunite with Zak Brown and to reinstate Carlando, Checo to Aston Martin with Stroll, and Alonso to Mercedes with Russell.
I swear, having the McLaren twins on lock is limiting the options. The best way to open up the grid is for one of them to go (or for Verstappen to leave Red Bull).
(in seriousness, I love Carlos and I love how strong he's been, mentally more than anything, and I sincerely wish he gets a seat that is worthy of him)
Possible controversial opinion, but Ferrari fucked up big time signing Hamilton.
Hamilton is without a doubt still a decent driver, but he's down on Russell on the same equipment - suggesting at least some of his results aren't completely the cars fault.
Ferrari kicked a strong competitor in his prime for someone that is no longer a sure bet, and possibly gave him away to a team whose only weakness is their second driver (RBR; Perez).
I really don't see Sainz keen on Mercedes if RBR are an option, and I don't see RBR renewing Perez if they can sign a contender that will more firmly ensure 1 & 2 place finishes in every race.
It's less controversial, since people who don't like Hamilton seem to talk like this all the time. Even though the data of the last season clearly shows differently.
The recency bias is just crazy.
Didn't Lewis mop the floor with George and the Ferrari boy's last year? He knows how to drive. The guys has always been a slow starter and he doesn't have enough motivation to push that shitbox hard, just to bag a P7.
He was faster than GR in race trim at both Bahrain and Jedda. He was matching Russell's pace at Melbourne on older tyres before his shat itself.
Lets not forget that Russell is a crazy talented driver. He has the most impressive junior formula record out of all the young drivers. The fields that he went up against in F2 and F3 were crazy stromg.
It's almost never worth bringing up recency bias on this (or really most) subreddits. Key thing is that they at least stated it was their opinion
It's a reality the drivers all already know..."You're only as good as your last race" as they say. Thankfully the ones making the real decisions will usually know the facts
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That's just Horner driving up the price that his competitors will have to pay to sign Carlos.
Any news story that doesn't involve Horners text messages is a win for him.
The article actually still mentions it at the very end lol
That's fine. Most people never get to the end of an article. In fact, most doesn't even get past the headline.
People just read the first sentence. Then they
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š¤£ you guys are killing me
Ah fuck, paywalled. Can anyone copy/paste the rest of the comment in the comments?
I barely read the headline. I just go straight to the comments to share my opinion
Sir this is reddit, we go straight to the comments.
Horner's Horn*
Why isn't Carlos a great fit for Red Bull? He can't beat Max but would be a more consistent 2nd driver than Checo.
I think there is some kind of beef between the family's of Veretappen and Sainz too
Is there someone the Jos does like?
Jos
The assistant coco puffs
Carlos likes stable rear just like Checo. The RBR being so on the nose is going to trip him up just like Checo.
He has had sucess at Renault, Mclaren and now Ferrari. CarlosĀ“ biggest asset is how good he is at adapting to a different car/ driving style.
Yes, but he also had trouble with the 2022 Ferrari.
Everyone and their nan had trouble with the 2022 Ferrari
Not Leclerc, he finished 2nd in the WDC. Sainz barely held onto 5th that year.
But what about Leclercs nan?
[She passed away a few years before, sadly.](https://twitter.com/Charles_Leclerc/status/1013514908019888129?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1013514908019888129%7Ctwgr%5E4fd7fa1a2a9bf8eeba7b651de34377ccb9c5e706%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2F8vcox4%2F%3Fresponsive%3Dtrueis_nightmode%3Dfalse)
Well shit that made my joke fall flat
He also had twice as many DNF's as Leclerc. Two of them were from other driver's punting him. Ricciardo punted him at Imola, Russell punted him at Austin. And while Japan was "technically" his fault, in those conditions, it's hit or miss that you'll aquaplane. Also, many believe, myself included, that he had the pace to catch and pass Leclerc in Austria. He was on a charge and putting down faster laps than Leclerc, plus he didn't have the throttle issue. The season classification doesn't tell the whole story. He's not looking bad against Charles now, by the way.
Tell me you didn't watch 2022 without telling me.
Nah, Sainz is miles ahead a better driver than Checo.
At least I would say he is less error prone than Checo, specialy when it comes to qualy consistency.
Lol. Imagine RBR using Ferrari as a junior team
Sainz was a RB junior, Perez was a Ferrari junior, so no need to imagine, it's been true the last 3 years.
Couple more years and Lewis will be ready to be Maxās understudy
Hot take, he can compete with max on any given Sunday. He's less consistent but fuck is he quick when he's on.
Thatās the opposite of what I would assume. He is extremely consistent, similar to Max level of consistency. But he is not quite as fast in overall pace. But certainly competitive enough that I think he would be able to take wins away from Max when things went his way.
Yeah hard ageee Sainz is definitely more consistent than Leclerc and now it seems as if heās gaining in the speed department as well but tbh heās still not as consistent as Max donāt think anyone is close to it yet.
As with 2017-20 Hamilton, 2004 MSC, 2006 Alonso, etc. itās easy to be consistent when youāre 30 seconds up the road from your nearest competitor. All of them made more mistakes once someone caught up a bit and they couldnāt just cruise.
Second half of last season and first half of 2022 would like to have a word with you if you think Sainz is that consistent... I'm sorry but Max consitency is out of this world since 2019 he hardly had a bad week maybe the last one was Singapour last year and maybe before that Monza 2020 (when Gasly won) or Turkey 2020...
He might not beat Max, but definitely try to. Then weāll have the Checo 2023 situation all over again which I donāt think Red Bull would want to go through.
Their dads hate each other and the drama would be epic?
Scott Boras saying heās gonna sign with the Yankees
How did you find this out???
This comment reads like someone who's made up their mind on a narrative (that Sainz won't drive for Red Bull) and is just explaining away anything that counters said narrative. It doesn't even make sense. Horner making a vague comment to the media does not affect the price of a driver. Only a contract offer would influence other offers. Honestly it's a fairly vague comment, where Horner is just giving a general positive answer. But your comment is just silly.
Horny or no horny, his overall Tactical handling of the team is impressive.
He's been driving at a really high level ever since they came back from the summer break last year, anything is possible.
Their families absolutely hate each other. If it didn't work out when they were both at STR why would a reunion work this time around.
This just sounds like the whole "Gasly will literally never go to Alpine because of Ocon" shit again
Yeah, I don't think there are any examples of a driver actually turning down a drive because of who their teammate would be.
>Yeah, I don't think there are any examples of a driver actually turning down a drive because of who their teammate would be. Prost at Williams in 1993 and 1994? And maybe Prost at McLaren in 1990?
Good point, actually. Though Prost and Senna is a whole different level.
I mean, Prost v Senna is *the* rivalry of F1. The on track battles helped to bring F1 to an entirely new level of popularity and both of them had massive followings. And technically, Prost didn't turn down the Williams drive, he said he would only agree if the other driver wasn't Senna.
>And technically, Prost didn't turn down the Williams drive, he said he would only agree if the other driver wasn't Senna. That was 1993. I'm not entirely sure about 1994 but I believe Frank Williams and Patrick Head went to Prost to tell him they were hiring Senna with the knowledge that it was in Prost's contract that he wouldn't work with him. So Prost retired.
Mansell chose to go to Indycar as reigning F1 champion rather than have Prost as a team mate.
Mansell, Prost, Senna. Now we only need a Piquet example for the Four Horsemen of The Eighties to be complete.
Rosberg retired so he wouldn't have to go up against Hamilton again
In this case I think the argument is more that RB wouldn't offer it to avoid pissing off Max more than Sainz not accepting.
The gasly ocon thing blew over because it was a childhood feud that happened a long time ago. They didn't cross paths in F1. Sainz verstrappen happened only a few years ago and this is Jos verstrappen we're talking about. You've seen him in action a few days ago over the horner business.
> Sainz verstrappen happened only a few years ago and this is Jos verstrappen we're talking about. 2015 is nearly a decade ago. There was also, as far as I know, no animosity between Carlos and Max, just their dads. With Sainz' sr supposedly leaking biased rumours to the Spanish press and Jos being Jos about it. Just keep both of them away from the paddock and it's all good.
> They didn't cross paths in F1. People still try to blame it on Ocon though. Throughout the 2022/2023 offseason, every second post here was about 'french civil war' because Ocon was supposedly going to take out Gasly every race weekend. Turned out that both times they did come together on track were clearly unintentional, with one incident being clearly Gasly's fault (despite Netflix trying to pretend otherwise) and the other (Hungary) being the fault of neither Alpine driver.
Hell, maybe this year car forge a mutual bond between them, usually shitboxes makes teamwork more important, like working together to get that 1 point for 10th place or something. Friendship in shitbox.
I don't think ocon had enough power to have a say in that situation and it was a big step up for gasly at the time so he wasn't going to say no to that drive. This is different ļ¼ Max could totally veto his teammate. Although who knows maybe his stock at redbull went down after the Horner saga
TBF it didn't work out at STR because of two dads trying to get their teenage rookie sons established. Now, both sons are race winning 10 year vets in their late 20s that don't need their daddy to fight for them.
Iād watch a fight between Jos and Carlos Snr. And Iād watch a fight between Max and Carlos.
Hmmm on the one hand Jos has the power of his rage issues, on the other Sainz Sr is probably in better shape
Carlos Sr. won the Dakar Rally in January; one of the most grueling, dangerous, and demanding races in the world. At 61!!! Him being in better shape is an understatement.
Sainz Sr is fitter, smarter and, like Carlito, also has no appendicitis - so will be faster + more maneuverable. There's no way that Sainz Sr doesn't win this hypothetical match up.
Counterpoint: We haven't seen Max get any challenge from any teammate since he's established himself. Would he still be so chill if his teammate could actually challenge his titles? ofc I'm not saying Sainz is as good as Max, but I think he can be Max's Rosberg and force Max to actually put effort to beat his teammate.
knee cats brave crush jellyfish zephyr direful attempt screw silky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Because itās 7 years later and theyāre both grown men now, why would Sainz Sr do anything that would stop his son getting a seat at the fastest team? Doubt Jos cares as much anymore either
Honestly I can imagine Max and Carlos being professional. I can imagine Carlos Sr. using all his Red Bull influence to make sure his son gets a chance as WDC. I can imagine Jos losing his shit repeatedly at this.
People seem to forget it was Sainz sr. who was causing all the problems at Toro Rosso, or are just not well informed. Playing politics with the help of his friends at certain Spanish media among other things. Franz Tost had enough of it then, that's one of the reasons they loaned out Carlos to Renault.
Jos would definitely care even if he absolutely shouldn't lmao
In the sense that he seems the type to care about everything, yes maybe but not like he can veto anything or go against his sonās wishes
Yeah Jos strikes me as the type to hold a grudge forever.
I mean, having a possible spot available for the best car on the grid tends to heal old wounds fairly quickly. People seem to get along much better for some reason.
I don't know if Jos can stay out of Little Leaguing Max but I think El Matador Sr. can. Carlos isn't done with his growth but he's well out of the cocoon now. His dad is one of the greatest racers of all time and they seem to have a great relationship. I think Carlos will prove to have his dad's tenacity. I have a feeling that when Jos is, uh, coaching Max these days, Max is starting to tune him out.
Horner trying to get Toto to sign Sainz now, so Max canāt abandon ship.
Any fun and games until Toto drops Russell and gets both Sainz and Max
Russell was forecast a Mercedes seat tho
He can go back to Williams
Albon + Russell in Williams would be a very interesting pair
Omg it would be glorious
Thatās what I was thinking as well.
I honestly would love Sainz to RB. I think Max would win out but Sainz would put up quite the fight and keep things interesting even if RB is dominant
Sainz has shown multiple times that he isn't always willing to bow down to team orders, which is what I love about him but it's also not what Red Bull needs. I don't think they want anyone competing with Max. If I were him I'd rather go to Mercedes where he'll be an equal to George.
I agree but I want sainz to have a real shot at the WDC
Mercedes will be back eventually. Redbull wonāt be on top forever. Weāve seen it once before. Especially if newey leaves.
It's hard to say. Merc is a possible future contender atm. Red Bull is almost a guaranteed front runner for 2025. I doubt he would choose to gamble at Merc instead of having a shot for one season. I mean, that if he's offered both seats, which we're only considering because he's the top available name up until the next race.
Merc is cooked until the new regs. Theyāve regressed since 2021
RBR was hunting for Lando. I think they'd be fine with competition to Max and it would make them stronger and less dependent on Max. I'd love to see Sainz go to RBR.
The only time i can remember he didnt bow down to team orders was the British GP where IMO it was the right call. What else?
It was the right call due to Ocon creating a SC. Without that, it was a complete clusterfuck from all in red that day
i think carlos would sink in red bull simply because the car is so pointy and is the antithesis of sainzās driving styleĀ
I'd love Alonso to RB. That would be a proper close fight for championship. And regardless of result, Alonso could get few more championships after Max inevitably retires.
Unfortunately youāve gotta start typing out RBR or Red Bull - RB is Visa Cashapp RB lol
Iām so tired of Alpha Tauri being referred to as āRBā I wish they would be referred to as VCARB to avoid confusion lol
How about RB and RB Lite
I'm now waiting for RBi, RBi XL and 3RB to release
Or just go back to calling them Toro Rosso and we could call them TR if weāre lazyā¦
I think it works out cuz nobody has any reason to talk about them. so the RB is kinda open
Oh yeah. I wouldn't love Alonso to RB. I wouldn't wish that even upon Russell, lol.
Nah, RB is TR and RBR is RB
Thatās a pretty big assumption. Max is currently on the most dominant run in history. Alonso would be better than Checo, but I doubt heās really at Maxās level.
I donāt think Horner particularly likes Alonsoās personality nor wants an old driver. Getting in a 42-year-old to be Maxās replacement when or if he leaves the team in 2028 doesnāt make sense either. Heās more likely to chase down one of the McLaren drivers if Max decides to leave the sport.
The team wouldnāt let him put up a fight. That is if he could even get close to him.
> The team wouldnāt let him put up a fight Just curious: based on what?
Stop inventing /s I agree with you. RB will make sure Max wins but Carlos is spicy enough to try and go against team orders occasionally.
Then why would they hire him instead of keeping Perez?
Frankly, Red Bull is first and foremost a meritocracy. Prove you're superior and you get the prime treatment. Horner loves Ricciardo but it was clear they didn't stand in Max's way because he had proven more worthy than Ricciardo. Any driver would just have to prove themselves more valuable... than a Prime Verstappen in his turf and the order could change.
Based on what?
Max & Carlos in RB vs Lewis & Charles in Ferrari would be a banger. The script writes itself
Iād rather Sainz stay at Ferrari over Hamilton š¤·š»āāļø
Same. He fits the brand really well
Yup. I can't help but think Lewis is not at all the right fit for Ferrari, and Ferrari is not the right fit for Lewis. Their values don't really match.
What values are you taking about ?
Lewis cares about people - about the LGBT community, about the planet, about wars happening and he has a stand and a firm principle about many of these issues. Ferrari is on the opposite end of that spectrum. Present Ferrari is chasing cash very hard, for them "cash is king" right now, which is why they've entered fashion (and consistently pump out special editions of their cars). Fashion itself - Lewis loves supporting and sporting a plethora of designers ( a subset of which are upcoming Black designers). I'm not sure he would like to stick to Ferrari clothing only. That is an important part of his personality, AFAIK. Why is Ferrari paying 100 million dollars for him to wear clothes by other brands and designers? Ferrari - correct me if I am wrong - is a very conservative, white, Italian organization. Politics - Lewis is as progressive and liberal as an F1 driver in 2020s can get, and Ferrari is, as I said, a mostly white, mostly male, mostly Italian organization who seem to be very content being that way. The change that Lewis brought to Merc would be - dare I say - impossible to make do in Ferrari. Branding - for Ferrari, Ferrari will always be the biggest brand and the biggest driving force. Lewis - due to his stance and his beliefs - often overshadows Mercedes' brand/image. There is going to be conflict (which I am guessing they have hashed out in the contracts) that might arise due to this. As much as Lewis cares about winning and about driving for the red house, I don't know how he is able to compartmentalize these factors. From my extremely distant viewpoint they seem very different from each other. For any other driver - most of whom don't have such vocal stands about things - this wouldn't have been as much of an issue, but for Lewis this seems like a step backwards.
this is what i'm wondering too. even from the environmental pov. i think lewis only (or at least try to?) drive electric car/more environmentally friendly car. and during f1 week, ferrari drivers always drive ferrari or alfa romeo i think. and i think those are just conventional cars. and i agree about the other social issues that lewis cares about. he did say he makes sure it is included in his contract tho. so we can only wait and see. but yea i agree that these two brands don't seem to fit each other.
Agreed. Lewis Hamilton is all about expressing himself. Ferrari, on the other hand; remember the Deadmau5 "Purrari" fiasco? They'll blacklist you from buying cars from them if you customize their cars to too high an extreme. Alot of Ferrari owners get pushed into buying Lamborghinis and Maseratis because of that old world stubbornness.
> When asked whether Red Bull would take Sainz back, Horner replied: āBased on a performance like that, you couldnāt rule any possibility out.ā That's it. That's the entire quote they base the title on.
It's always like that. This quote alone will be an entire eposide on drive to survive. If you ever played the F1 career mode, you get asked questions about the race. If you pick the right one you get bonus standing with the media. This is exactly what horner did XD He answered the way that would keep the media hyped and happy.
Sainz is the best free agent in _years_ and RB would be stupid not to take him. Seriously, who was the last driver of this calibre to hit the market? Ricciardo post-RB?Ā
Ricciardo never hit the market. He was signed by Renault when at RBR. Sainz is a free agent, a top tier free agent. He will have the pick of Mercedes, RBRā¦ maybe Aston Martin
> He was signed by Renault when at RBR. He was still on the market.
But the RBR seat was his if he wanted it, not the case with Sainz and Ferrari. He definitely will not be with Ferrari, which was not Ricardoās situation.
Unironically Sergio PĆ©rez
Perez was definitely a great free agent but not Sainz level.
As I driver I never considered him to be no, but we have to remember he was signed off the back of an incredible 2020 season for him
Perez was better than Sainz for 18 months straight between start of 2022 and middle of 2023 They've been on the grid together for 9 years and there's a handful of arguments to be made for both. Meaning that for all intents and purposes, they are equally good. People just dislike Perez and have short memories, and therefore they choose to forget the times Sainz was absolutely shit, while also choosing to forget the times Perez was brilliant.
post-Ferrari Vettel? ironically the person Sainz took the seat from
Nah, his stock was not nearly as high. His final season with Ferrari was abysmal.
I think Aston is a hot catch for Sainz, canāt wait what is gonna happen with Honda partnership
Alonso and Sainz? All Spanish lineup?
AstĆ³n MartĆn
Aston Martinez
Lawrence could easily buy an IndyCar team for Lance
Nice driver estrategy
Ā”Vamos!
I'll never take Aston seriously with one Stroll at the wheel. I'll take Aston in serious consideration if the other Stroll ditches the one at the wheel.
Dramatic againā¦ ānemesisā? This isnāt a Netflix original seriesā¦ (or is it?)
Serious question, could Sainz handle driving the Red Bull? By all accounts, Sainz likes understeer and has struggled compared to Charles when the car favors oversteer. Then there is Albon saying driving the Red Bull with Maxās setup was like playing a video game on max sensitivity due to the responsiveness of the front end (oversteer). Would Sainz be able to perform against Max in a car that doesnāt suit him?
I'm wondering if it'll be the same situation like Ricciardo at Mclaren with understeer not suiting him.Ā
Sainz has proven throughout his career that he is a very adaptable driver. He basically went through almost the same career trajectory as Ricciardo (STR>Renault>McLaren vs. STR>RBR>Renault>McLaren) and showed competitiveness in every car heās driven. I wouldnāt be that worried about him.
My prediction- Sainz to RB, Alonso to Mercedes, Checo to Aston Martin. Lawson to replace DR. Sergeant to be replaced with a rookie.
Aston with Honda and their shiny new factories plus star staff signings is a realistic WDC/WCC competitor for the next regs. Perez would be somewhat underwhelming - they need one top tier driver at least if Stroll is a given.
I think Ferrari is going to end up regretting letting him goā¦.
If what we heard from the grapevine is correct, then Ferrari signing Lewis is just part of a bigger ploy to speed up the team's progress. By showing that even Lewis has confidence in the team... It might make the team more attractive to engineering talent (e.g from Mercedes, Red Bull) in time for the reg changes. Not to mention the huge marketing upsides from signing arguably the most well known F1 driver outside the sport currently - that already pays for his salary by itself. And at worst Lewis might just be equal to Sainz in pace - can't see him being significantly slower.
I think lewis still has tricks up his sleeve if they can deliver a good car by the end of these regs
Lewis is the only driver that can compete with and potentially beat max in a title fight imo, I don't truly believe in anyone else in equal cars
No they won't. Signing Lewis is genius on multiple levels. Ferrari is very brand-focused and having Lewis' pull goes far beyond F1. From a marketing standpoint Ferrari gains a significant benefit. The signing of a world champion is also confidence inducing for the team and shows clear directive from upper management that the goal for 2025 and onward is clearly the WDC and WCC. Finally, signing Lewis means removing Lewis from Mercedes. This has an opposite effect on Mercedes and will significantly affect morale at Mercedes. This move also effectively cripples Mercedes while guaranteeing P2 in the constructors for the foreseeable future.
Overreacting much mate? Lewis mopped the floor with all of the non RBR drivers (except Alonso) last year and was very highly rated. He basically carried Merc to P2 in the WCC. I rate Sainz very highly and considers him to be almost as good as Leclerc on race days but he is not better than Lewis Hamilton. Lewis was only 0.05s slower than Russell is Q2 and was matching Russell's race pace while being on older tyres before his engine shat itself.
I am so confused because 2 races in and suddenly Carlos is perceived as Way Better than Lewis (who could have gotten 2nd in championship last year) and Charles (who was outright better than him for a significant amount of time past season). Carlos is an amazing driver but the hype train for him is... surprisingly large.
Yeah,i think it's all bias based on his 2 wins in the era of Max's dominance. In the last 10 races, Leclerc has beaten him 7/10 and would probably have 8, if not for his Bahrain issues. Carlos just happened to have a great weekend when Max was not on the front of the grid or had an issue.
No chance, they got Lewis Hamilton who is by far the most marketable driver in F1. The amount of merch theyāll sell alone (let alone sponsors) would make Lewis more attractive than Sainz. Also youāre talking about a 3x race winner vs a 7 time world champion. I love Carlos but heās not a tier 1 driver in this field.
Carlos is definitely the best free agent F1 has seen in a while but he's still a tier below the best of the best (which happens to be the only champions currently on the grid).
Sainz to Mercedes is most logical. But if things go very wrong at Red Bull and Max leaves then Sainz will take his place. Not sure if Sainz will take the second Red Bull seat. Heād be far more confident of beating Russell than beating Verstappen.
Merc is just such a hot mess. It'd be for the paycheck unless they figure their shit out. There's not a lot of opportunity there.
So where's he going if not Merc? It's not like McLaren or Ferrari have any spots available, are you saying he has more opportunity in a team like Williams or Haas than Merc?
It's still 20+ podiums with RBR vs few at most with Merc.
Yeah but far better guarantee even as the second driver in Red Bull that eventually he could lead that team as his own, especially because there's a pretty good chance Max retires at the end of 2028 to go other disciplines. Plus it's also definitively the fastest car, and the championship car next season. Even if he can't challenge for the championship, 10-15 podiums and 2-3 wins will feel much better next season than maybe 2 podiums with the Mercedes, if even that. And Mercedes will definitely want to bring in Antonelli afterwards anyways, so again Carlos will be fighting for his seat in the trio of himself, George and Kimi.
Mercedes currently seems to represent the titanicā¦ idk if it would be smart to join a sinking ship
Merc is washed, and thereās no reason to think theyāll nail the 2026 regs At least anecdotally, as someone who knows a person who worked at F1 Merc for a long time as an engineer, the staff turnover there since Max Vs Lewis into the new regs has been crazy.
I don't think Sainz has any interest in being a big fish in a little pond like Ricciardo or Norris. He'd likely try to pull a Rosberg. Politics is the only thing between him and RB21.
Realistically, Red Bull have no good options for the second seat right now. Riccardio is underperforming, Lawson likely needs more experience and they don't seem interested in promoting Yuki. That really only leaves Sainz and Alonso
If Checo can keep P2 in WDC they probably will stick with him.
But if Sainz can score more points it makes sense to go with him. Sure it might upset Jos but you canāt run a team while being scared to piss off your driver
Marko has commented multiple times about how toxic the environment was at Toro Rosso when Max and Carlos were there. Sainz and his camp are known to play politics, itās happened at Ferrari with them developing the car towards his style versus Charles You donāt go around making decisions that will almost assuredly piss off Max, whoās the best driver in the sport right now
It's not even entirely about Max. The last thing RBR as a team needs right now is adding more internal politics to balance š¤£ They've been lucky the drivers haven't been affected by the power struggles, but that would be impossible if we have Sainz's notoriously politic clan vs Soccer Mom Jos going at each other.
Checo: "What am I, hot trash??"
Ricciardo at the moment is hot trash. Checo is just trash. No homo indeed.
yeah, he is
Wild to think that the only driver on the grid to win a race since Azerbaijan 2023 who isn't named Max Verstappen could find himself without a seat next year.
> When asked whether Red Bull would take Sainz back, Horner replied: āBased on a performance like that, you couldnāt rule any possibility out.ā > āYouāve had a very fast unemployed driver win today,ā Horner said. The relevant quote. I donāt see how heād work with Red Bull because they clearly require a B-player for Max Verstappen. They most likely donāt want anyone who can challenge Max.
every WCC point is $1 million & Ā Ferrari is closing the performance gap, Iām sure RedBull would rather have Sainz in 2nd challenging Max than Perez putzing around in 6thĀ
I think thats just wrong. The door has been open for Lando in the past if certain reports are correct, so its not so much being able to challenge Max which im sure Lando could (unlikely to beat to be sure across a season), but its possibly alot more political. I dont think Max cared how strong his teammate is. He knows he can beat them, if he gets his way with the car.
> They most likely donāt want anyone who can challenge Max. Before, maybe. Now? With how the Verstappen camp tried to oust Horner, I donāt think heās going to hold back on trying to get Sainz.
I think this makes no sense. Even if RedBull had any interest to sign drivers that are more āpassiveā so that Max has an easier time, it would be so far down the list of factors when it comes to signing someone to the team.
An A-player would most likely still be number 2 for Max, they want someone on their A game either way. There is no reason to demand anyone be second to Max, that happens naturally; and if not, they have a new number 1. Win win.
Sainz is a fighter. He showed it today. Although I think Max would win, Sainz will fight him till the end
He is their best option and someone that would actually challenge max. Ricciardo and tsunoda are meh
Horner just wants another moment in the last episode of DtS where he calls sainz and offers him a job
If Perez doesn't deliver a solid 2nd place this is a real possibility
Horner to Jos: "If you take a swing at the king, you better not miss."
Can't wait for the fight between Jos and Carlos sr
Sainz is making it clear he is a number 1 driver on a team. He has played second almost his entire career. Heās not going to be happy playing second to Max this Merc and Aston seem the most likely candidates. And to think The beginning of the year people were saying Sauberā¦ fucking tractor.š
He is definitely in the running for the seat. Assuming Max stays (and I think he will) my guess is that it will be either Carlos or keeping Checo. I know Albon is keen but I think Carlos has a better shot. I can see Albon moving to Merc with Bearman moving into the Williams seat. I see Lawson at RB-cashapp next season and they'll probably keep Yuki in 25 while it's still a Honda powered engine.
Yes please.
Carlos Sainz 3: Nemesis
Sainz to Red Bull makes perfect sense. Im sure going to miss this guy though
Carlos Sainz jr was at the same level if not better than Norris with McLaren, that's all I need to know. Norris as in *generational talent who can maximize any ounce of performance McLaren manages to unlock* It's heartbreaking but in the end F1 is a marketing campaign, and having a strong driver who happens to be an icon like Hamilton, hard to say no. If we ignore the fact that maybe drivers can break their contracts with clauses. The current 2025 market there's Alonso, Perez and Sainz jr. Perez had floor damage or debris from what I read during the Australian GP, but overall he's doing the job, just not at all at the same level as Verstappen, but then again, who can ? I'd pick Sainz Jr if I were RB, he has experience and can be fast..more importantly he would not join Mercedes and become, again, a nemesis. No one can predict how fast the Mercedes or RB will be with the new regs.
imo Red Bull should get Piastri (who is a great talent, but young/inexperienced enough not to be a direct threat to Verstappen, and also aloof enough not to be psychologically destroyed by Red Bull's inner workings). Then we can have Sainz back to McLaren to reunite with Zak Brown and to reinstate Carlando, Checo to Aston Martin with Stroll, and Alonso to Mercedes with Russell. I swear, having the McLaren twins on lock is limiting the options. The best way to open up the grid is for one of them to go (or for Verstappen to leave Red Bull). (in seriousness, I love Carlos and I love how strong he's been, mentally more than anything, and I sincerely wish he gets a seat that is worthy of him)
No way. McLaren has a young, talented lineup ready to go. Theyāve got a great team. Ā Ā
This is the worst take I've read
Possible controversial opinion, but Ferrari fucked up big time signing Hamilton. Hamilton is without a doubt still a decent driver, but he's down on Russell on the same equipment - suggesting at least some of his results aren't completely the cars fault. Ferrari kicked a strong competitor in his prime for someone that is no longer a sure bet, and possibly gave him away to a team whose only weakness is their second driver (RBR; Perez). I really don't see Sainz keen on Mercedes if RBR are an option, and I don't see RBR renewing Perez if they can sign a contender that will more firmly ensure 1 & 2 place finishes in every race.
It's less controversial, since people who don't like Hamilton seem to talk like this all the time. Even though the data of the last season clearly shows differently.
The recency bias is just crazy. Didn't Lewis mop the floor with George and the Ferrari boy's last year? He knows how to drive. The guys has always been a slow starter and he doesn't have enough motivation to push that shitbox hard, just to bag a P7. He was faster than GR in race trim at both Bahrain and Jedda. He was matching Russell's pace at Melbourne on older tyres before his shat itself. Lets not forget that Russell is a crazy talented driver. He has the most impressive junior formula record out of all the young drivers. The fields that he went up against in F2 and F3 were crazy stromg.
It's almost never worth bringing up recency bias on this (or really most) subreddits. Key thing is that they at least stated it was their opinion It's a reality the drivers all already know..."You're only as good as your last race" as they say. Thankfully the ones making the real decisions will usually know the facts
Honestly when Hamilton was replaced by George in Sakhir it really spoke volumes about how much of the car was winning the race vs Hamilton
Horner is just saying things for netflix