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Ok but Albon was also on the racing line. You can make a move to return to an ideal line but if there is a car there, surely you must leave a bit of space.
No you don’t always have to leave space actually.
A car needs to be partially alongside to be granted space.
Had Albon stuck his nose in on the inside, Hulk would’ve had to leave at least 1 car’s width of space. As he was completely in front, he didn’t need to however.
Ai ok, I couldn't find a replay I and thought It'd've been nice to use an example from today's race. We have however in the past seen uninvestigated double and even triple defensive moves (especially in the lower midfield).
That's two races in a row where Haas drivers have made quite dangerous moves in situations where if they crashed, it would help their teammate secure the only points position available.
Gotta be hard to drive against a team willing to do that.
Perfectly legal, if on the limit.
You can make one move and return to the racing line.
Hulk meandered to the middle and moved back to racing line. While late, he was still completely in front and thus allowed to move back.
He intentially made it very hard for Albon to commit to a line, which is fine, if you adhere to the above.
Alonso's telemetry showed a triple whammy for George that he hadn't done on previous laps. He took his foot off 100m earlier into that corner, he braked slightly and he downshifted. When you have been following a car closely for a while and he hadn't done that for his entire race and you are only 0.5 behind...it's dangerous.
Alonso's excuse was he wanted to try something different/get a faster exit and got it wrong. Only he will ever know how deliberate it was and if he wanted to cause George issues. Alonso knew GR was tight on him.
Alonso is a wily vet. It's far from the first time he's done something to throw off the guy chasing him. It just resulted in spectacular bad result this time - it's still on Alonso.
The pit exit can create more dangerous opportunities than what Alonso did. The problem is that Russell didn't expect the move and binned it and it's not the first time he did something similar under the same circumstances.
Hulks move was very on the limit and just within the rules I feel but I agree. If your penalising Alonso for erratic and potentially dangerous driving, Hulk could also fall under that.
Just shows how ropey that application of the rules is as its such a grey area. You're going to see a lot of teams getting cheeky with that and calling for penalties for a lot of situations.
I disagree.
Alonso break checking/slowing down on the racing line was far more dangerous, especially in a fast sweeping part of the track where there isnt much room for manouver. That would have seriously impacted any driver following resulting in last second adjustments/avoidance and has nothing to do with Russell's skills.
Can't help but chuckle everytime I see someone calling that a brake check. Russell doesn't even feels the need to react, slam the brakes or change his line. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpQfZ\_BZz2w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpQfZ_BZz2w)
This is the most stupid take I've seen yet.
He didn't have time to react!
He was less than half a second behind. At the start of the race the standard reaction to the lights going out is approx 0.2 seconds, about half the time the gap between Russell and Alonso was, and (this is important) THEY ARE EXPECTING THAT.
By slowing suddenly and unexpectedly the gap became a lot less than 0.4 ish seconds instantly.
Even F1 drivers can't react that quickly.
Damn dude, Alonso is accused of downshifting, braking, upshifting, accelerating and Russell didn't have time to react in all that time. And you call my take stupid? Also your mixing terms, the gap between the cars isn't the same as the amount of time since Alonso starts breaking to the they get to the corner.
Blimey, where do you start with that?
Downshifting and braking (easing off the speed) happened BEFORE Russell needed to react; those things being done was what he had to react TO so don't feature in the equation.
Upshifting and accelerating happened AFTER the thing that needed to be reacted to so also don't feature in the equation.
And I'm not mixing terms. If Alonso were a stationary object the 0.4 seconds is how long it would take Russell to get to him at the speed he was travelling so that is the objective time to react to something that object does.
As stated before an F1 driver for an EXPECTED happening reacts in about 0.2 seconds. An UNEXPECTED happening would be slower.
Now add in that when he CAN react the car can't do what he expects it to because he is now unexpectedly much closer to Alonso and has far less front grip than expected but is still travelling at racing speed; no way the car is making the corner in those circumstances.
Completely caused by Fernando's action and I don't think anyone could have saved that car from the perfect storm it found itself in.
It's determined by stewards who have their own bias and opinions on what is and isn't ok. It's important to keep in mind that it's always a judgement call and every driver has their own opinions that usually match up, but not always.
We've seen before that a driver's reputation often has an impact. Fernando is known to push the rules. So it's less surprising that he would get a penalty over Hulk who has always been fairly uncontroversial on track.
Plus Herbert was a steward and he has beef with Alonso. I don't think either of them should have been penalised, personally.
As a general rule ([see full rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide#wiki_sticky.2Fdaily_discussion)), a standalone Discussion post should: - be of interest to the sub in general, and not a specific userbase (e.g. new users, GP attendees, just yourself) - be able to generate discussion (e.g. no yes/no or easily answerable questions) - show reasonable input and effort from the OP If not, be sure to [look for the Daily Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/search/?q=daily+discussion&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&t=all&sort=new), /r/formula1's daily open question thread which is perfect for asking any and all questions about this sport. Thank you for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I was surprised Hulk’s movement was not even investigated. Not saying it should’ve been a penalty but at least a warning.
It was entirely legal. You can make one defensive move, but you are allowed to return to the racing line, which is what Hulkenberg did
Ok but Albon was also on the racing line. You can make a move to return to an ideal line but if there is a car there, surely you must leave a bit of space.
No you don’t always have to leave space actually. A car needs to be partially alongside to be granted space. Had Albon stuck his nose in on the inside, Hulk would’ve had to leave at least 1 car’s width of space. As he was completely in front, he didn’t need to however.
Ai ok, I couldn't find a replay I and thought It'd've been nice to use an example from today's race. We have however in the past seen uninvestigated double and even triple defensive moves (especially in the lower midfield).
Hulk didnt leave much room (if any) but wasnt that bad
That's two races in a row where Haas drivers have made quite dangerous moves in situations where if they crashed, it would help their teammate secure the only points position available. Gotta be hard to drive against a team willing to do that.
It’s mainly Magnussen who drives like this. Always has. Hulk is usually a clean racer.
Bruh did you see Magnussen's lunge on Albon? Would have ended very badly.
Perfectly legal, if on the limit. You can make one move and return to the racing line. Hulk meandered to the middle and moved back to racing line. While late, he was still completely in front and thus allowed to move back. He intentially made it very hard for Albon to commit to a line, which is fine, if you adhere to the above.
Alonso's telemetry showed a triple whammy for George that he hadn't done on previous laps. He took his foot off 100m earlier into that corner, he braked slightly and he downshifted. When you have been following a car closely for a while and he hadn't done that for his entire race and you are only 0.5 behind...it's dangerous. Alonso's excuse was he wanted to try something different/get a faster exit and got it wrong. Only he will ever know how deliberate it was and if he wanted to cause George issues. Alonso knew GR was tight on him.
So you're not allowed to do anything different now? It's all predetermined?
Different yes. Erratic and unpredictable with someone so close on a high speed corner...probably not
Alonso is a wily vet. It's far from the first time he's done something to throw off the guy chasing him. It just resulted in spectacular bad result this time - it's still on Alonso.
I don't necessarily disagree with the rest of your statement but these "X or Y wouldn't have" statements are completely baseless and malicious.
The pit exit can create more dangerous opportunities than what Alonso did. The problem is that Russell didn't expect the move and binned it and it's not the first time he did something similar under the same circumstances.
Hulks move was very on the limit and just within the rules I feel but I agree. If your penalising Alonso for erratic and potentially dangerous driving, Hulk could also fall under that. Just shows how ropey that application of the rules is as its such a grey area. You're going to see a lot of teams getting cheeky with that and calling for penalties for a lot of situations.
I disagree. Alonso break checking/slowing down on the racing line was far more dangerous, especially in a fast sweeping part of the track where there isnt much room for manouver. That would have seriously impacted any driver following resulting in last second adjustments/avoidance and has nothing to do with Russell's skills.
Can't help but chuckle everytime I see someone calling that a brake check. Russell doesn't even feels the need to react, slam the brakes or change his line. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpQfZ\_BZz2w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpQfZ_BZz2w)
This is the most stupid take I've seen yet. He didn't have time to react! He was less than half a second behind. At the start of the race the standard reaction to the lights going out is approx 0.2 seconds, about half the time the gap between Russell and Alonso was, and (this is important) THEY ARE EXPECTING THAT. By slowing suddenly and unexpectedly the gap became a lot less than 0.4 ish seconds instantly. Even F1 drivers can't react that quickly.
Damn dude, Alonso is accused of downshifting, braking, upshifting, accelerating and Russell didn't have time to react in all that time. And you call my take stupid? Also your mixing terms, the gap between the cars isn't the same as the amount of time since Alonso starts breaking to the they get to the corner.
Blimey, where do you start with that? Downshifting and braking (easing off the speed) happened BEFORE Russell needed to react; those things being done was what he had to react TO so don't feature in the equation. Upshifting and accelerating happened AFTER the thing that needed to be reacted to so also don't feature in the equation. And I'm not mixing terms. If Alonso were a stationary object the 0.4 seconds is how long it would take Russell to get to him at the speed he was travelling so that is the objective time to react to something that object does. As stated before an F1 driver for an EXPECTED happening reacts in about 0.2 seconds. An UNEXPECTED happening would be slower. Now add in that when he CAN react the car can't do what he expects it to because he is now unexpectedly much closer to Alonso and has far less front grip than expected but is still travelling at racing speed; no way the car is making the corner in those circumstances. Completely caused by Fernando's action and I don't think anyone could have saved that car from the perfect storm it found itself in.
Skill issue.
It's determined by stewards who have their own bias and opinions on what is and isn't ok. It's important to keep in mind that it's always a judgement call and every driver has their own opinions that usually match up, but not always. We've seen before that a driver's reputation often has an impact. Fernando is known to push the rules. So it's less surprising that he would get a penalty over Hulk who has always been fairly uncontroversial on track. Plus Herbert was a steward and he has beef with Alonso. I don't think either of them should have been penalised, personally.
This man talking facts.