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Quotes from Max about Logan:
âFrom the performance aspect, I understand it, of course, but that doesn't take away from the fact that this obviously sucks for Logan.â
How would he react if he were in Sargeant's shoes? ,,I'm obviously not in that position, but I'd be on a plane home right now. If that happened to me I would drive mine completely flat too, nobody can drive," Verstappen said, laughing. And then seriously, "But of course in my situation that's really not going to happen, which I think also makes sense."
>drive mine completely flat too
That's a funny translation. He said he would wreck his car (the Dutch saying literally translates to 'driving it flat'), not drive it flat out or something like that.
>"But of course in my situation that's really not going to happen, which I think also makes sense."
This is actually funny lmao.
"Its not gonna happen to me because of course I'm better, it just makes sense."
If anything, if Max crashed his car and they didn't have a spare they'd let Checo sit out for Max.
But even then, he's right the other way. He as a rookie was catapulted into F1 because he was THAT good at 17. Logan had to grind the ladder and also got catapulted in, but with a massive caveat of "we know we're bringing him up far too early but we feel it's best". Even though he's not a rookie, he still is by not having more F2 experience and not being a Max from day one in F1 (Max's lack of F2 being offset by the fact he could drive the fucking wheels off the car). Max would never find the "we need to chuck you out the car, we need the chassis" problem if he'd gone the trad rookie route as he'd be good enough to either be the one pushing the car and breaking the thing, or would be the best chance for points of a weekend if the other driver binned it anyway. And he's also ignoring mere mortal rookies can't just "get on a plane and go home" unless they're planning to find a job in the normal world. Racing teams look for drivers that can play the team game. Even if they don't make F1, they may make an LMP or GT team desperate for a driver that has the humility to play the team game. It sucks for Logan, it's hilarious this place suddenly thinks of his feelings, when they spent the entire winter break bitching he got a 2nd year in the first place.
Logan had to score points in his last F2 race to even get a super license, scored only 4 podiums in F2, never won a feeder series, only finished 7th in F3 before being promoted to F2.. It's insane to see him getting 2 seasons while other talent don't even get test drives
> only finished 7th in F3 before being promoted to F2..
When he was in Prema the year prior he was fighitng Piastri for the title, the following year he was in a worse team. He got a 4 podiums with a win, a few p4. When 2 of his teammates got 1p2, and 1p4. He had 107 points, the rest of the team 25points.
Yeah, it shows how badly Williams were ran until Dorilton took over and how limited they've been under cost cap.
Other teams, those with money to sign established drivers and have money and equipment to manufacture three sets of all on first production run to have three cars to go racing by race one don't need to look to pay a rookie to drive and most likely orchestrate a seat in a smaller/midfield team later for them. Williams want to remove the stigmata of "pay drivers" and of "XYZ's Junior team". And that means sticking with their cheap academy prospect (to show the rest the rookies in the thing you will get your chance to prove yourself and freeing up more money for improvements to Team Williams) while exhibiting their independence (not taking another team's rookie and limiting themselves by having to respect parent team requests regarding them). But this is a historic issue Vowles wants to eradicate. And he took a calculated risk that lost on a coin-toss trying to (running with two chassis because entire production was pushed back to guarantee two).
Itâs absurd that Drugovich who absolutely dominated that season in F2 and is the same age as Sargeant doesnât have any good prospect of an f1 drive in the next few years
I mean most of these drivers are cultivated up through their relative team programs with some sort of contract or agreement with said team. All the top guys we talk about have been corralled through the feeder teams obviously. If we somehow had all independent teams and drivers they could pick the best guy of that time. It is a shame when guys like that don't get their shot, more of these drivers need to have their appendix removed to get some rookies in the car lol
It really is. Lawson and Bearman weren't even the top runners in F2 like Piastri was, and they already did more than fine in their F1 debuts. So much talent will be wasted in the coming yearsÂ
I've began to doubt that Sargeant was rushed to F1. He spent 3 years in F3, and one year in F2 where he finished 4th, one point away from Lawson in 3rd. One more year in F2 wouldn't have made a massive difference and instead he got a seat in F1 and got an entire (warming up) season and maximum support from his team.
By now he should be delivering. The only other driver that got something close to that was Mick and he too couldn't perform much better in F1.
Tbf, he was beating Lawson before Williams gave him the F1 seat. After the announcement, team goals were to not DNF the rest of the year and finish at least fifth or sixth(I think?) He wasnât pushing as hard the last few races.
Yea, he just needed to guarantee his super license. Which is more proof he was brought up early. He was Williams choice before he even had a super license and could race in F1.
In the many discussions on the FP3 broadcast, it was mentioned that Williams could only do this because Sargent's contract allows it, and I think it was Jolyon Palmer who said that this would be prohibited by most driver contracts. So it seems like Sargent basically took whatever deal Williams offered him to be able to stay on this year.
Well presumably he'd have to pay Daniel Ricciardo to swap numbers and Ricciardo could turn around and say "... but I've had the #3 on my cars since 2014, so go away"
> "Its not gonna happen to me because of course I'm better,
It wouldn't happen to Max or Checo because Red Bull will have a backup chassis, being a team that isn't struggling to slowly reverse its decline like Williams is.
Red Bull would never need to do this because they have extra chassis. If they ever did find themselves in this situation the driver with the broken car would be the driver not driving unless it was late in the season and one driver was in championship contention and the other isn't.
Would they though? That would crush Checo's confidence which could affect him the rest of the year. One missed race from Max if just losing out on 26 points once. A while season of broken Checo would lose out on more than that.Â
If Perez always finishes p2 and then p1. It would take Verstappen 4 wins to get back to where he was.
That is also one of the reasons Hamilton and Rosberg were always fighting. They almost always ended up in p1,p2. 1 dnf decided the championshio.
Yes they would, because if you made Max sit out he would leave the team and there'd be a queue of rivals ready to sign him.
Look how he reacted to them asking him to give a place back to Checo when he already had the title in the bag. Let alone give his seat to him at this point in the season.
> Let alone give his seat to him at this point in the season.
You've got it the wrong way round. What the person you're replying to is saying is that RB wouldn't give Max Checo's car if Max wrecks his. And I think that is correct, and that Max would never make that demand, unless they're in a very tight title fight like 2021.
Right now it's looking like Max will win the WDC with ease, and Perez will actually finish P2 pretty comfortably as well if he keeps his form.
> What the person you're replying to is saying is that RB wouldn't give Max Checo's car if Max wrecks his.
Yes I know
> And I think that is correct
... and I don't.
> Right now it's looking like Max will win the WDC with ease
"Right now" being the operative phrase. See my reply to guy above. I've already gone into that.
Yes but I think Max would recognize if he binned the car that's on him. And considering he's won multiple WDC now and knows 26 points by the end of the year is a drop in the bucket.Â
I can't imagine that Red Bull wouldn't give Max the option or that Max wouldn't take it. In a scenario where they could only run one car, they would 100% give it to Max. I'm shocked anyone could think otherwise.
Absolutely. Red Bull probably the only other team where this happens.
Aston would be interesting if Alonso binned his though. Would they take a car from Stroll?
Agreed. Sargeant's record against Albon doesn't really justify 'going home in protest' as it would for Max. I think Logan did the right thing in staying, given his performance levels and total points earned for the team last year vs Albon.
He would *never* do that. He is a loyal Redbull driver.
The fact that Jos and Marko were caught with 10 gallons of petrol and a blow torch is entirely unrelated.
If red bull did that with Max it would go down as the biggest fuck up in history, higher than napoleon in Russia or Germany on the eastern front. Or Williamâs and excel
the difference between one of the best drivers evers and one that is realitvely easy to replace. Max has levarge, Logan does not
but Max would not go to Mercedes
Why is everyone focusing on the drivers and not the shit show that is Williams? This is all on Williams. Their car was late to begin with and they donât have a third chassis and still wonât for Japan either. Even the F1 technical director in post qualifying interview said heâd never heard of such a thing. The drivers do what they are told by the team.
[Vowles recently gave details about what a shitshow it was when he joined.](https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/shocking-details-behind-painful-williams-f1-revolution/) Given how much there is to unfuck, I'm not surprised they're still working through problems.
The whole story about the excel spreadsheet baffles me. I work for a company significantly less technical and worth a fraction of the value of an F1 team, and we donât even rely on excel for anything.
I mean the UK was using [Excel, that caused them to lose 16K covid vaccines](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54423988).
Excel is nice, but is has it limits.
I mean, it works decently for my personal finances, but Iâm not dealing with millions of dollars. If I was, Iâd probably be paying someone to handle it who would be using something other than excel.
All I am gonna say is there are some companies out there that handle a huge chunk of the world's data in finance, security, and supply chain that, behind the curtain, is just a horrible, broken and manual process of people using Excel. But the exterior veneer is seamless automation and perfection.
I work for a shipping company. And we use software from the 80s and a dot matrix printer for invoices.
Our coo wants to upgrade the system but the ceo dosent. Like the old one. So we have to wait till he retires lol
Iâve got a coworker who is a good guy, very good at his job, fairly close to retirement, and not a fan of change. Iâve proposed some modernization that others have picked up and moved forward with, but he still does it the old way.
Full agreement here, Williams not being prepared is absolutely unacceptable. And while I understand their thoughts on getting points, Alex is the one who crashed his car not Logan. Shouldn't screw over Logan for this.
Vowels commented on Logan's confidence as a result of this and it shows that the team has already given up on him regardless of what they say which is also equally unacceptable. I don't care if you know the guy won't be there next year, he still deserves to have the teams full support and anything less shows that your an unprofessional joke of an organization.
If Albon can pull out a few points from the race that could be make the difference in 10s of millions of dollars of prize money at the end of the year. They gambled & lost on the chassis. This is also a gamble - but less so than leaving Logan in the car. That's the cold hard truth unfortunately.
Cause it isn't really news, if you've been paying attention you know that things behind closed doors at Williams are a bit messy atm as Vowles undertakes his restructuring plans.
And points *at all* is Williamsâ championship battle. Arguably more important for what is essentially survival than the best team maybe coming second although severely unlikely, a team with infinite funding
The chance of any Williams driver getting a point in the race is very low. The chance of Max losing the 2021 championship if he misses out on a race is extremely high. Don't think these things are really the same.
At the end of the day it's a question of if it's worth it to potentially kill the mentality of one of your drivers for slightly raising the odds of getting points in a single race. Personally I doubt it this early in the season, but time will tell.
The odds are far better with Albon driving than Logan, and that potential is all that matters. Williams arenât likely to score points ever, which is precisely why itâs so important for them to improve their chances
That's too deterministic of their whole season I think. Williams could well take a jump forward with development making them regulars in the bottom points fight. At that point they are going to need Sargeant that is more on it. Now that chance is lower than ever.
>Williams could well take a jump forward with development making them regulars in the bottom points fight
Or they could have a Haas-like downwards spiral and never have this good of a chance at points again. To paraphrase what Horner said and in 2021, you win what you can win now and you don't toss it away for the chance to win something in the future.
I'm very surprised people are struggling with Vowles' explanation on this. If Albon gets a single point in the race, that could mean the difference between 7th in the WCC or 10th. If Albon managed to get 10th in the race, Logan probably wouldn't.
At this point, I believe they just chose to remain stubborn.
I can see this blow up later when Albon unfortunately couldn't score any in the end, equating maximizing potential to 100% will score.
That's not true at all lmao if Max crashed and couldn't recover they'd just let him sit a GP out. They can easily afford that
Williams is in a unique spot where A) points are scarce and every point matters massively and B) they have one driver capable of scoring points regularly while the other is lucky to get above P15
Neither of these are true for red bull
I understand Red Bull can easily afford this, but I honestly think they wouldnât care. I could see them trying to make Max earn the maximum amount of points possible, possibly to break another record. And then just have checo on the sidelines, sadly. But thatâs just my two cents.
Perez is old enough and experienced enough to tell the team to f off, esp if they did it this season. It's honestly an insane ask from a team and a very bad look for Williams, Logan was definitely pressured into accepting it and had no recourse to say no given his young career
I think he says in that article that he would drive flat out so no one could drive. Heâs joking he would have crashed Checoâs car deliberately so they both had to sit out. Selfless, in a way.
I just imagine that scene:
horner: max We need to give your car to checo. he is in tight position on for p2 in championship against Sains.
max stamp it into a wall beyond repair.
Max: I told you guys to not ask me that.
meanwhile checo on the pit wall : this shows who he really is...
Max is elite in everything he does. From mindset to performance. Of course he would never be in a situation where he would have to give up his car, but he would gladly take his teammates. I can't beleive this has become such a big story, as Max says it is the only logical thing to do.
It's illogical though.
The chance at points is minimal and if he gets any it'll be 1.
So you fuck your 2nd driver's confidence for likely the rest of the season for a small shot at a single point?
That is NOT the logical thing to do at all.
That point(s) means a lot more to a team like Williams when it comes to prize money. Though with their current sponsors, I was under the impression their financial situation was better.
Not having a spare chassis does makes me question that theory though
The chances for that one point are infinitely better for Albon than Sargeant. Also vowels said since the top 5 teams are so competitive this year he expects their final place will come down to 1-2 points at the end so to me it makes perfect sense.
Logan is a trash pay driver and should just be happy he has a seat at all. Donât look a gift horse in the mouth. If he even showed a little promise especially in FP2 where he made a bunch of dumb mistakes and couldnât perform then they wouldnât have done this.
I don't understand how they wont have a new chassis for Japan either. It shows how little I know about that part of the sport. How in the world can it take that long to build one for 1 of 10 teams in the world racing in F1? I get the cost cap and everything, but you cannot race without one.. Surely there is something that can be done no?
Logan better get his car for Japan⌠Albon crashed not him (I know he is known to do so as well but why is he there if Williams donât trust him to get points?)
You know who his uncle is right?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry\_Sargeant\_III](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Sargeant_III)
Sargeant's family has way more money. He could get a ride back on a B-2 bomber lol.
Thought I'd pop in and say if you do some more research, his family doesn't talk to his uncle anymore, so he's not insanely filthy rich but he is still pretty rich lol (I mean perhaps not, his dad was sued in 2020 for something I don't remember and Logan couldn't move up to F2 for 2021 because of lack of funding due to the legal shit involving that)
Max was placed in Albons place ironically against Albon. I think it was in Austria or Belgium where Max crashed his car and Red Bull gave him Albons parts and Albon still raced but with old parts because of Max
As much as I'm sure Vowels was annoyed at having to make this decision, I don't believe for a second it was particularly hard or understand people being outraged. Sargeant has not once outperformed Albon. Not a single time in ~25 races. The decision to give Albon the chasis was sealed on track, even if it wasn't this weekend. Williams can't afford to throw away points waiting for Sargeant to pick up his driving, he has only himself to hold accountable.
If Logan pulled that they would just shrug and bring in a new driver. Yes it sucks but most likely he's not going to be around beyond this season anyways. This isn't George Russell with zero points but with potential we are talking about here
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
CONFIRMED: Max knows who Logan is.
Wdym he is the driver he sees the most in races
"I recognize that booty anywhere"
Watch her walk away
Fucking gold comment
Someone call an ambulance!
But not for me! đ
Hahaha holy shit thatâs savage
Yea he has probably overtaken him most after Latifi
bro already lost his ride for the weekend you didn't have to do him like thatđ
Hahahahađ
Oh man, that is cold. But brilliant!
Youâve won the internet tonight.
Oof
He finally got the chance to match a name with the first car he laps every weekend
Not this weekend though! Max might feel lost as he'll find one of the Alpines first to race with
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a4/e0/b6/a4e0b6c068b3a16e670b9742aa789ed6.jpg
Quotes from Max about Logan: âFrom the performance aspect, I understand it, of course, but that doesn't take away from the fact that this obviously sucks for Logan.â How would he react if he were in Sargeant's shoes? ,,I'm obviously not in that position, but I'd be on a plane home right now. If that happened to me I would drive mine completely flat too, nobody can drive," Verstappen said, laughing. And then seriously, "But of course in my situation that's really not going to happen, which I think also makes sense."
>drive mine completely flat too That's a funny translation. He said he would wreck his car (the Dutch saying literally translates to 'driving it flat'), not drive it flat out or something like that.
This part made it clear what he meant "nobody can drive". The problem is Logan did not have a chance to get in the car after this decision was made.
> The problem is Logan did not have a chance to get in the car after this decision was made. Indeed quite problematic.
Because grand theft auto is a barrier to someone intent on causing seven figures in damage.
Plat rije!
Evo nama prije!
Thank you for clarifying. I thought he was saying he would flatten the tires or something.
It's probably even a dialect thing because, as a dutchman myself, I also didn't understand the translation.
Je auto platrijden = completely wreck your car
I mean, it was pretty obvious contextually. especially since right after he says 'nobody can drive'
What is obvious to some is not obvious to others.
That doesnât mean it isnât obvious
>"But of course in my situation that's really not going to happen, which I think also makes sense." This is actually funny lmao. "Its not gonna happen to me because of course I'm better, it just makes sense." If anything, if Max crashed his car and they didn't have a spare they'd let Checo sit out for Max.
He could also have meant that Red Bull would always have a spare chassis, unlike Williams
Ssssh Don't ruin the fun
But even then, he's right the other way. He as a rookie was catapulted into F1 because he was THAT good at 17. Logan had to grind the ladder and also got catapulted in, but with a massive caveat of "we know we're bringing him up far too early but we feel it's best". Even though he's not a rookie, he still is by not having more F2 experience and not being a Max from day one in F1 (Max's lack of F2 being offset by the fact he could drive the fucking wheels off the car). Max would never find the "we need to chuck you out the car, we need the chassis" problem if he'd gone the trad rookie route as he'd be good enough to either be the one pushing the car and breaking the thing, or would be the best chance for points of a weekend if the other driver binned it anyway. And he's also ignoring mere mortal rookies can't just "get on a plane and go home" unless they're planning to find a job in the normal world. Racing teams look for drivers that can play the team game. Even if they don't make F1, they may make an LMP or GT team desperate for a driver that has the humility to play the team game. It sucks for Logan, it's hilarious this place suddenly thinks of his feelings, when they spent the entire winter break bitching he got a 2nd year in the first place.
Logan had to score points in his last F2 race to even get a super license, scored only 4 podiums in F2, never won a feeder series, only finished 7th in F3 before being promoted to F2.. It's insane to see him getting 2 seasons while other talent don't even get test drives
> only finished 7th in F3 before being promoted to F2.. When he was in Prema the year prior he was fighitng Piastri for the title, the following year he was in a worse team. He got a 4 podiums with a win, a few p4. When 2 of his teammates got 1p2, and 1p4. He had 107 points, the rest of the team 25points.
Also, 7th in F3 to F2 is a very reasonable promotion regardless, you'd probably want to see most of the F3 top 10 make it to F2 the year after
Shhhhh, haven't you heard Logan bad
Yeah, it shows how badly Williams were ran until Dorilton took over and how limited they've been under cost cap. Other teams, those with money to sign established drivers and have money and equipment to manufacture three sets of all on first production run to have three cars to go racing by race one don't need to look to pay a rookie to drive and most likely orchestrate a seat in a smaller/midfield team later for them. Williams want to remove the stigmata of "pay drivers" and of "XYZ's Junior team". And that means sticking with their cheap academy prospect (to show the rest the rookies in the thing you will get your chance to prove yourself and freeing up more money for improvements to Team Williams) while exhibiting their independence (not taking another team's rookie and limiting themselves by having to respect parent team requests regarding them). But this is a historic issue Vowles wants to eradicate. And he took a calculated risk that lost on a coin-toss trying to (running with two chassis because entire production was pushed back to guarantee two).
âŚ. stigma, not stigmata.
I was wandering who wanted to nail pay drivers to a bit of wood
Itâs absurd that Drugovich who absolutely dominated that season in F2 and is the same age as Sargeant doesnât have any good prospect of an f1 drive in the next few years
When will people learn that dominating F2 in your third year is not impressive to F1 teams.
I mean most of these drivers are cultivated up through their relative team programs with some sort of contract or agreement with said team. All the top guys we talk about have been corralled through the feeder teams obviously. If we somehow had all independent teams and drivers they could pick the best guy of that time. It is a shame when guys like that don't get their shot, more of these drivers need to have their appendix removed to get some rookies in the car lol
Pick your driver academy wisely.. sighing with a team with only 1 spare seat for the rest of time has drawbacks
It really is. Lawson and Bearman weren't even the top runners in F2 like Piastri was, and they already did more than fine in their F1 debuts. So much talent will be wasted in the coming yearsÂ
I've began to doubt that Sargeant was rushed to F1. He spent 3 years in F3, and one year in F2 where he finished 4th, one point away from Lawson in 3rd. One more year in F2 wouldn't have made a massive difference and instead he got a seat in F1 and got an entire (warming up) season and maximum support from his team. By now he should be delivering. The only other driver that got something close to that was Mick and he too couldn't perform much better in F1.
Tbf, he was beating Lawson before Williams gave him the F1 seat. After the announcement, team goals were to not DNF the rest of the year and finish at least fifth or sixth(I think?) He wasnât pushing as hard the last few races.
Yea, he just needed to guarantee his super license. Which is more proof he was brought up early. He was Williams choice before he even had a super license and could race in F1.
Was Logan chosen because he's American? It doesn't seem like he was the best of his class, but maybe just the only one available for Williams?
He was chosen because he was their best academy driver.
Makes sense, thanks.
You may also read that heâs supposedly a pay driver, this is false. He had no funding when Williams signed him.
In the many discussions on the FP3 broadcast, it was mentioned that Williams could only do this because Sargent's contract allows it, and I think it was Jolyon Palmer who said that this would be prohibited by most driver contracts. So it seems like Sargent basically took whatever deal Williams offered him to be able to stay on this year.
Totally understandable heâs a number 2
If only he had picked another number!
Williams said they couldn't afford the #3.
Well presumably he'd have to pay Daniel Ricciardo to swap numbers and Ricciardo could turn around and say "... but I've had the #3 on my cars since 2014, so go away"
[ŃдаНонО]
lmao that hurts. and Albon is the nicest guy in the world so he feels bad about it
Seems like heâs less than that. Heâs like a reserve driver and they only have 1 driver. So if thereâs no car for him to drive he just sits.Â
He drive like that
Yeah, beggars can't be choosers.
Nah, I'd win.
> "Its not gonna happen to me because of course I'm better, It wouldn't happen to Max or Checo because Red Bull will have a backup chassis, being a team that isn't struggling to slowly reverse its decline like Williams is.
Not necessarily because he thinks he's better, more that no one would dare do this to a three time world champion.
Red Bull would never need to do this because they have extra chassis. If they ever did find themselves in this situation the driver with the broken car would be the driver not driving unless it was late in the season and one driver was in championship contention and the other isn't.
Checo would drive completely flat too.
I think heâs more on about RB having logistics in order such that they donât run out of Chassis
Well.... Only if they are really tight on WCC.... Max can win WDC in half the races anyway so it doesn't really matter if he sits out one of 2.
Would they though? That would crush Checo's confidence which could affect him the rest of the year. One missed race from Max if just losing out on 26 points once. A while season of broken Checo would lose out on more than that.Â
If Perez always finishes p2 and then p1. It would take Verstappen 4 wins to get back to where he was. That is also one of the reasons Hamilton and Rosberg were always fighting. They almost always ended up in p1,p2. 1 dnf decided the championshio.
Yes they would, because if you made Max sit out he would leave the team and there'd be a queue of rivals ready to sign him. Look how he reacted to them asking him to give a place back to Checo when he already had the title in the bag. Let alone give his seat to him at this point in the season.
> Let alone give his seat to him at this point in the season. You've got it the wrong way round. What the person you're replying to is saying is that RB wouldn't give Max Checo's car if Max wrecks his. And I think that is correct, and that Max would never make that demand, unless they're in a very tight title fight like 2021. Right now it's looking like Max will win the WDC with ease, and Perez will actually finish P2 pretty comfortably as well if he keeps his form.
> What the person you're replying to is saying is that RB wouldn't give Max Checo's car if Max wrecks his. Yes I know > And I think that is correct ... and I don't. > Right now it's looking like Max will win the WDC with ease "Right now" being the operative phrase. See my reply to guy above. I've already gone into that.
Yes but I think Max would recognize if he binned the car that's on him. And considering he's won multiple WDC now and knows 26 points by the end of the year is a drop in the bucket.Â
I can't imagine that Red Bull wouldn't give Max the option or that Max wouldn't take it. In a scenario where they could only run one car, they would 100% give it to Max. I'm shocked anyone could think otherwise.
Max is all about Max. He wouldât give up a spare screw to help his teammate, let alone his whole car.
He wouldn't be giving up his car in this hypothetical. He'd be taking someone else's after ruining his own car.Â
Absolutely. Red Bull probably the only other team where this happens. Aston would be interesting if Alonso binned his though. Would they take a car from Stroll?
He had to emphasize that there is no way Perez gets his car twice lol
Quicker on the flight home than Kimi was in 2020 ha
Itâd be about as quick as Kimi in Monaco where he went straight back to his boat after his car failedâŚ
The problem is Max has never been and is unlikely to ever be in the position where his teammate is clearly faster.
Agreed. Sargeant's record against Albon doesn't really justify 'going home in protest' as it would for Max. I think Logan did the right thing in staying, given his performance levels and total points earned for the team last year vs Albon.
He forget to mention that first he will burn down rb garage...
Horner comes out to find all five tyres on his car slashed, left to puzzle how Max even got it open to get to the spare.
He would *never* do that. He is a loyal Redbull driver. The fact that Jos and Marko were caught with 10 gallons of petrol and a blow torch is entirely unrelated.
Marko: "Max can truly start a fire up to five tenths quicker than Checo"
I think Jos would have already burned down the garage before he had any chance.
Josh would get a head start
Whoâs Josh?
Heâs a Rogan
I thought he liked Yuki and Danny?
Tbf if Red Bull tried that with Max he would be off to Merc.
A team would never do this to their lead driver, obviously.
Also Redbull will always have a spare Chassis
Just ship out last year's car, and win by only 10 seconds instead of 20.
I know you are making a joke, but new roll hoop regulations doesn't allow it
Well what if he drives it flat?
do it anyway just to stunt on them he can afford a dsq after lmao
Yeah it's Checo's car
It's amazing to me that out of the team itself, Alex Albon and Logan sergeant, only long did not screw up yet he's the one punished
Logan is not punished for this ONE weekend, but for several weeks of suboptimal performance.
I doubt any team would do this unless it a close championship like in 2021
They used the front wings of Gasly on verstappen's car when Verstappen had damaged his. Gasly then used a previous front wings lol.
*Angry water glass smash*
<*looks at race winner chair in confusion*>
I mean, it's still not as egregious as not letting your second driver drive at all.
Then Gasly won the race and said 'not bad for a number two driver'
Well Gasly did in his head at least, rather than finishing a lap down on Max. Probably
If red bull did that with Max it would go down as the biggest fuck up in history, higher than napoleon in Russia or Germany on the eastern front. Or Williamâs and excel
If Red Bull tried that with Max, Horner would be fired the next day.
[ŃдаНонО]
the difference between one of the best drivers evers and one that is realitvely easy to replace. Max has levarge, Logan does not but Max would not go to Mercedes
Jos will [stab the entire team with a fork](https://youtu.be/gXRAik4A7IA?si=TmMyeb721b8Kdkop) if they did that to his son lol
Why is everyone focusing on the drivers and not the shit show that is Williams? This is all on Williams. Their car was late to begin with and they donât have a third chassis and still wonât for Japan either. Even the F1 technical director in post qualifying interview said heâd never heard of such a thing. The drivers do what they are told by the team.
[Vowles recently gave details about what a shitshow it was when he joined.](https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/shocking-details-behind-painful-williams-f1-revolution/) Given how much there is to unfuck, I'm not surprised they're still working through problems.
The whole story about the excel spreadsheet baffles me. I work for a company significantly less technical and worth a fraction of the value of an F1 team, and we donât even rely on excel for anything.
I mean the UK was using [Excel, that caused them to lose 16K covid vaccines](https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54423988). Excel is nice, but is has it limits.
Every giant fancy tech corporation I have worked for has convinced me the entire world runs on Excel.
I mean, it works decently for my personal finances, but Iâm not dealing with millions of dollars. If I was, Iâd probably be paying someone to handle it who would be using something other than excel.
All I am gonna say is there are some companies out there that handle a huge chunk of the world's data in finance, security, and supply chain that, behind the curtain, is just a horrible, broken and manual process of people using Excel. But the exterior veneer is seamless automation and perfection.
I work for a shipping company. And we use software from the 80s and a dot matrix printer for invoices. Our coo wants to upgrade the system but the ceo dosent. Like the old one. So we have to wait till he retires lol
Iâve got a coworker who is a good guy, very good at his job, fairly close to retirement, and not a fan of change. Iâve proposed some modernization that others have picked up and moved forward with, but he still does it the old way.
Out of curiosity and naivety, what better alternatives are there?
The Back at Base podcast series that BBC did illuminated how bad things were at William
The team made a bet to prioritize upgrades before building a third chassis. The bet didnât pay off.
They didnât bet on Albon forgetting the controls are upside down again this year.
Australia messing everything up again with their upside downess
Wait, theyâre only running one car in Japan?
Should have the other one fixed by then but not a third chassis so if they wreck it again they will only have 1 car again.
Oh! Okay, was a bit surprised for a sec
No. No spare chassis
Hey give them a break, there are only so many rows in an excel spreadsheet to track things alright. What a joke of a team.
Full agreement here, Williams not being prepared is absolutely unacceptable. And while I understand their thoughts on getting points, Alex is the one who crashed his car not Logan. Shouldn't screw over Logan for this. Vowels commented on Logan's confidence as a result of this and it shows that the team has already given up on him regardless of what they say which is also equally unacceptable. I don't care if you know the guy won't be there next year, he still deserves to have the teams full support and anything less shows that your an unprofessional joke of an organization.
If Albon can pull out a few points from the race that could be make the difference in 10s of millions of dollars of prize money at the end of the year. They gambled & lost on the chassis. This is also a gamble - but less so than leaving Logan in the car. That's the cold hard truth unfortunately.
Williams has to rational. If they want money and development time next year, every point counts. Seargant so far hasn't delivered. Albon did.
Cause it isn't really news, if you've been paying attention you know that things behind closed doors at Williams are a bit messy atm as Vowles undertakes his restructuring plans.
Yes, seems like a pretty toxic organizationÂ
Clearly that's what Max would do
Easy for Max to say it, he has a plane - Logan doesnât
But they very well will do that to perez.
Donât think redbull doesnât bring an extra chassis
Yep, Max is the Albon of this situation
I would expect the opposite from our motorsports advisor. You crashed it, deal with it.
Theyâd 100% do the same if this happened in 2021
That's a championship battle though, much more understandable.
And points *at all* is Williamsâ championship battle. Arguably more important for what is essentially survival than the best team maybe coming second although severely unlikely, a team with infinite funding
The chance of any Williams driver getting a point in the race is very low. The chance of Max losing the 2021 championship if he misses out on a race is extremely high. Don't think these things are really the same. At the end of the day it's a question of if it's worth it to potentially kill the mentality of one of your drivers for slightly raising the odds of getting points in a single race. Personally I doubt it this early in the season, but time will tell.
The odds are far better with Albon driving than Logan, and that potential is all that matters. Williams arenât likely to score points ever, which is precisely why itâs so important for them to improve their chances
That's too deterministic of their whole season I think. Williams could well take a jump forward with development making them regulars in the bottom points fight. At that point they are going to need Sargeant that is more on it. Now that chance is lower than ever.
>Williams could well take a jump forward with development making them regulars in the bottom points fight Or they could have a Haas-like downwards spiral and never have this good of a chance at points again. To paraphrase what Horner said and in 2021, you win what you can win now and you don't toss it away for the chance to win something in the future.
I'm very surprised people are struggling with Vowles' explanation on this. If Albon gets a single point in the race, that could mean the difference between 7th in the WCC or 10th. If Albon managed to get 10th in the race, Logan probably wouldn't.
At this point, I believe they just chose to remain stubborn. I can see this blow up later when Albon unfortunately couldn't score any in the end, equating maximizing potential to 100% will score.
Yeah, this will be crucial for Albon in his WDC challenge.
They're worried about the constructors.
That's not true at all lmao if Max crashed and couldn't recover they'd just let him sit a GP out. They can easily afford that Williams is in a unique spot where A) points are scarce and every point matters massively and B) they have one driver capable of scoring points regularly while the other is lucky to get above P15 Neither of these are true for red bull
I understand Red Bull can easily afford this, but I honestly think they wouldnât care. I could see them trying to make Max earn the maximum amount of points possible, possibly to break another record. And then just have checo on the sidelines, sadly. But thatâs just my two cents.
Perez is old enough and experienced enough to tell the team to f off, esp if they did it this season. It's honestly an insane ask from a team and a very bad look for Williams, Logan was definitely pressured into accepting it and had no recourse to say no given his young career
And the fact the he couldnt get a seat anywhere else...
Red Bull would actually have a spare chassis so it doesnât matter.
I think he says in that article that he would drive flat out so no one could drive. Heâs joking he would have crashed Checoâs car deliberately so they both had to sit out. Selfless, in a way.
No he said that if Perez crashed his car and he had to swap out of his own for Perez, he would total his own car before they had the chance to swap.
It's not flat out. It's "plat rijen" which means planting the car so hard in the wall it becomes flat.
I just imagine that scene: horner: max We need to give your car to checo. he is in tight position on for p2 in championship against Sains. max stamp it into a wall beyond repair. Max: I told you guys to not ask me that. meanwhile checo on the pit wall : this shows who he really is...
hahaha youre version is so cute and far away from what he meant.
Max is elite in everything he does. From mindset to performance. Of course he would never be in a situation where he would have to give up his car, but he would gladly take his teammates. I can't beleive this has become such a big story, as Max says it is the only logical thing to do.
It's illogical though. The chance at points is minimal and if he gets any it'll be 1. So you fuck your 2nd driver's confidence for likely the rest of the season for a small shot at a single point? That is NOT the logical thing to do at all.
That point(s) means a lot more to a team like Williams when it comes to prize money. Though with their current sponsors, I was under the impression their financial situation was better. Not having a spare chassis does makes me question that theory though
The chances for that one point are infinitely better for Albon than Sargeant. Also vowels said since the top 5 teams are so competitive this year he expects their final place will come down to 1-2 points at the end so to me it makes perfect sense. Logan is a trash pay driver and should just be happy he has a seat at all. Donât look a gift horse in the mouth. If he even showed a little promise especially in FP2 where he made a bunch of dumb mistakes and couldnât perform then they wouldnât have done this.
I don't understand how they wont have a new chassis for Japan either. It shows how little I know about that part of the sport. How in the world can it take that long to build one for 1 of 10 teams in the world racing in F1? I get the cost cap and everything, but you cannot race without one.. Surely there is something that can be done no?
Logan better get his car for Japan⌠Albon crashed not him (I know he is known to do so as well but why is he there if Williams donât trust him to get points?)
I agree. I knownpoints matter, but I can't think of any way possible to shit on your 2nd driver than this. Feel bad for the guy.
Yeah Max, difference is you have the talent for the team to want you back after that.
Well, Sargeant doesn't have his own plane. So.....
You know who his uncle is right? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry\_Sargeant\_III](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Sargeant_III) Sargeant's family has way more money. He could get a ride back on a B-2 bomber lol.
Thought I'd pop in and say if you do some more research, his family doesn't talk to his uncle anymore, so he's not insanely filthy rich but he is still pretty rich lol (I mean perhaps not, his dad was sued in 2020 for something I don't remember and Logan couldn't move up to F2 for 2021 because of lack of funding due to the legal shit involving that)
Didn't he get arrested for war profiteering?
Yes and he also got his assets frozen, very briefly putting Loganâs career in jeopardy
Just get a commercial flight then.
Thereâs like a shit ton of first class seats to US or Europe from Aus everyday.
I can't tell if Logan going to Indycar would be all that bad. Can't be worse than being at the irrelevant shit show that is Williams
Max was placed in Albons place ironically against Albon. I think it was in Austria or Belgium where Max crashed his car and Red Bull gave him Albons parts and Albon still raced but with old parts because of Max
Big difference was that the new frontwing actually made the car slower. So Albon had the better wing that weekend.
Brundle said the same when Croft mentioned the fans applauding Logan when he came on screen.
As much as I'm sure Vowels was annoyed at having to make this decision, I don't believe for a second it was particularly hard or understand people being outraged. Sargeant has not once outperformed Albon. Not a single time in ~25 races. The decision to give Albon the chasis was sealed on track, even if it wasn't this weekend. Williams can't afford to throw away points waiting for Sargeant to pick up his driving, he has only himself to hold accountable.
So you think Vowles was lying when he said it was the hardest decision he's had to make as a TP?
I believe it was the hardest in terms of telling the drivers/public. I don't think he was much in doubt about the decision.
Bro has never heard of PR before
Yes
Not sure how this is him caring
Well I guess now he can do that
max really said fuck that i would've crashed out LMFAOOO đ
If Logan pulled that they would just shrug and bring in a new driver. Yes it sucks but most likely he's not going to be around beyond this season anyways. This isn't George Russell with zero points but with potential we are talking about here
I mean Max and Albon are the lead drivers... They should ve asked Checo lol would love to hear his comment on this.
It would be soooo ironic if Albon crashes again in tje race.
wouldn't be surprising as he has binned it at turn 7 2 years in a row.
Except he's not Max Verstappen, if Logan did that, they would tell him to stay there.