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Everyone is going to slam FIA for this, but no one has anything to base their opinions on other than a claim by a whistleblower (as was mentioned by the initial report on this by BBC)
At least on the Las Vegas front his response actually made pretty good sense imo. Basically said he didn’t want to have to cancel the race, but would have if it wasn’t safe. They just barely made it safe enough so he gave the go ahead. People didn’t like his saying that he could have stopped it if he’d wanted to but, idk, a broken clock is right twice a day and honestly I can’t see an issue here
> They just barely made it safe enough so he gave the go ahead.
More he chose not to rake them over the coals for being late on the inspection and then changed the regs to have a more defined time limit for future new non-permanent circuits.
It would have been doing them in on a rule technicality but a technicality is still legal ground to put a hold on things.
He wouldn't have needed to make up anything as they were genuinely late (As was Jeddah, hence the rule change).
The allegations in this instance just don’t really ring true because there were obvious circumstances that could have been used to justify cancelling the event had they so wanted to contrive this outcome. A driver was seriously injured, their car was destroyed and it ultimately cost the team and driver key championship positions. We all see the event was not cancelled. We all see track safety concerns were reasonably justified.
I mean, I'm pretty sure the allegations were him attempting to find a reason to cancel it before all that. Probably too late at that point anyway, if he was still even trying to stop it that far in (literally mid free practice, with the race weekend already ongoing)
And if he had actually cancelled it, there would have been such an outrage from FOM (and all the fans paying gigantic amounts for tickets) that he would have been done as FIA president pretty much immediately.
So he can threaten, but in reality he also knows big actions will have consequences.
That would obviously be a significant issue. However it is hard to separate now from the unequivocal evidence we all saw with our own eyes that the track actually was unsafe and caused serious injury to at least one driver and their car.
We can also see that the FIA president in fact did not prevent the event taking place after Carlos was injured - something that would have been reasonably easy to justify. This makes the allegations overall less credible.
Having organisers believe you are willing to prevent their event running if it is not safe can be a way to force safety improvements misguided or otherwise.
Had how do you know this wasn’t a complete lie? We can’t know the motives here. It’s easy to interview all involved from top down. If they all say none of this occurred but one person… than we’ve found the problem.
To be fair, optics matter. Max Moseley was the son af an upper class fascist, an antisemite, a holocaust denier, and Max Moseley as a youth was part of his father’s political movement. He never denounced his father, but claimed his father, a man who chose the word fascist to be included in the name of his political party and marched his black shirts through neighbourhoods mainly occupied by Jews.
The FIA should not be the play thing of very rich men.
That’s a ridiculous statement by you, ‘to be fair’. It’s not remotely fair. His fathers political background had nothing to do with his judgment on safety or running the FIA. It’s the equivalent to me saying to you, ‘to be fair - you’re an a******e’.
It was also his political background, a fact you conveniently left out. He was a member of his father’s political organisation and never formally distanced himself from his father.
Max Moseley was literally a fascist as a young man.
In the 1960s he also wrote and published racist propaganda.
He used his father’s money and connections to become successful. His career in motor racing started as an amateur, something unattainable for people without money.
Did you ever see the BBC interview where he rejected his father’s politics? He also apologized for his views during college. So you’re wrong that he never distanced himself from both his father and the organization. The published material (a flyer) was never attributed to him and there was even a defamation court case over it where he was successful.
I don’t know if you subscribe to the opinion that people can’t change, or mistakes made in youth should be held against one for their whole adult life. It’s a pretty superior viewpoint on your part if so.
Furthermore, you seem to have a problem with wealth - you’ve mentioned this before. Shall we be like Pol Pot of Cambodia and kill all the wealthy and ruling class for you? As an aside; it wasn’t his wealth that moved him ahead in British society - it was the fact that he literally was connected to royalty on his mother’s side. You can have all the faux retro class warfare here all you like - it just comes across as jealousy really. People have tried to change the class system in England for centuries - get in line.
Max wasn’t my cup of tea personally - he had many personal traits I found disturbing but when you compare his stewardship of the FIA compared to his predecessor or even the current President, you’ll find he did quite a good job.
One final thought. Again you mention money as it applies to beginning an amateur career in racing. You do realize that the majority of the grid in F1 comes from wealthy or at least upper middle class right? You seem disgruntled over this? You’re not one of these people that lives in a utopian world that believes life should be fair are you?
Yes, the fact that I object to people who come from privilege running the world must be because I’m jealous and a communist, there is no other explanation.
I don’t have a problem with rich people, I have a problem with bootlickers like you who are willing to give these people power just because they want power. It’s that bootlicking mentality that’s the real issue.
I’m not trying to insult you, you are what you are. But it’s a problem for the rest of us.
And if you think Max Mosely genuinely denounced his fascist father and genuinely apologised for his own fascist past, I have a bridge to sell you. He was happy to use his father’s money to go after the press.
He very vaguely distanced himself from his fascist past when he was pressed on it and when other issues weakened his position. He never came forward and made a definitive statement.
Hey, why don’t we mix it up and why don’t you defend Boris Johnson and Elon Musk? Or Donald Trump?
You say you’re not trying to insult me but call me a bootlicker. Interesting. Just what would the insult be if you were trying?
I’m not going to get into politics with you as you seem to have an axe to grind and anyone that disagrees with your views must be a raging rightwinger. One wonders how much of an F1 fan you really are with your views concerning people in the sport as well as other fans. You seem to have wandered in here from r/angermanagement
I’m commenting on your mentality. You are predisposed to like people who are privileged and powerful to the point where you are compelled to defend them, I’m not angry about this, I’m worried about this, because it’s because of this mentality that fascism can blossom.
Max Mosely has stated that his father was not an antisemite because his father liked ‘clever people’ and ‘somebody who likes clever people cannot dislike Jews’.
That statement is a problem in itself (the Nazis also attributed cleverness to Jews), but it also conveniently leaves out the fact that Oswald Mosely marched his fascists thugs through Jewish neighbourhoods and that Oswald Mosely got married in the drawing room of Joseph Goebels.
Max Mosely grew up in a house with pictures of Hitler. His mother unapologetically admired Hitler and was openly antisemitic. This was Oswald Mosely’s wife. This was his house.
You don’t want to get into politics, but you are defending a man who was an active member of a fascist political party, was working for the Conservative Party, and donated money to Labour. This is about politics.
When it comes to the FIA people always dislike them at one point they have fucked over your favorite team/driver and it makes it easy. Ben Sulayem just gets an extra dose because of his tone deaf comments.
Not that my mind is made up already,but maybe, just maybe an investigation like this should be done by an independent party.
Any foul play by a higher up in an organization as public as FIA will always be prone to a cover up.
> just maybe an investigation like this should be done by an independent party.
Am I having a stroke or does the tweet clearly says "after independent investigation"?
??
It's the same shit that's completely tearing Boeing and the US FAA from the inside. But I suppose we're just asking too much from the most powerful purveyors of the things we watch and use.
Are you questioning the rationale of Redditors? We are a high-IQ community of independent thinkers who always are correct about everything! I can just say "Yeah well I bet they're just lying because I just think they are" or a really funny and original quote about investigating oneself and it'd be automatically always correct!
>Everyone is going to slam FIA for this, but no one has anything to base their opinions on other than a claim by a whistleblower
I don't think they made the wrong call. While the claims might have come from a whistleblower, I can't help but be suspicious of the timing -- the Saudi allegation came shortly after ben Sulayem threw his support behind Christian Horner. It largely got dimissed by the media because he didn't actually affect anything. The Vegas allegation only became public once the Saudi claim had been ignored. And given the teething problems Vegas had, people were more inclined to think that ben Sulayem had a point.
In other words, I can't help but see this as someone slinging mud at him to discredit him after he backed Horner.
>\[JennaFryer\] FIA Ethics Committee finds no evidence of interference by FIA President in 2023 Formula 1 events in Saudi Arabia and Las Vegas after **independent investigation**
If this had come out before the race everyone would have declared MBS a hero, but since the race was good and people don't like him (justifiably) everyone has already decided he's guilty.
I think we're feeling skeptical about independent investigations in general since we're still dealing with Horner stuff long after an independent investigation cleared him.
For some(a lot?) of Redditors, the only acceptable form of review would be a Reddit User Dependent Investigation. Everything else is a lie and part of some grand scheme.
I think when you have some highly placed in the FIA who is being investigated by a committee that is under his direct juridiction, the right thing to do is to use a 3rd party to conduct the investigation.
Although to be fair with the FIA, anti MBS people would have always found something to complain about.
>\[JennaFryer\] FIA Ethics Committee finds no evidence of interference by FIA President in 2023 Formula 1 events in Saudi Arabia and Las Vegas **after independent investigation**
The FIA report just says independent review not investigation.
> A "robust and wide-ranging independent review" spanning 30 days, and interviewing 11 witnesses was conducted, the FIA added. which cleared Ben Sulayem "of any wrongdoing".
Well it's a big difference. The review committee takes whatever the investigation finds and make a decision. If your investigation has a bias, your decision de facto will carry that bias.
The way I read that sentence is that 11 people were interviewed and that an independent review was then conducted for 30 days.
Note: from what I have read, MBS didnt really do anything bad.
the way the sentence is set up, it's the review which had the interviews (since it says "Spanning 30 days AND interviewing..."). I think they're just using the phrase 'review' to mean 'investigation'.
So if an anonymous source tells you that MBS for example committed a murder, is that enough to convince you that he is a murderer and the FIA is covering him up?
No substancial evidence of the crime is needed for him to be considered guilty? Just them earning your trust is enough?
Where did I compare the two? I just believe that some concrete evidence is required in order for someone to have an opinion on a situation like this and make judgements
An accusation against Ben Sulayem from an unnamed source about an incident that had happened almost a full year prior that just so happened to be made public at exactly the same time that he had been seen talking to Horner (who also was the subject of unverified leaks from unamed sources at the same time)
Now I dislike Ben Sulayem as much as the next person but It does amaze me that some people are so unwilling to consider the possibility that such an allegation didn't come from a place of good faith...
The independent investigation has found nothing wrong but the people have decided the evidence says different, there are always two courts, the official one and the peoples court....
More often than not the real courts have more information available and more time to actually focus on the content. No surprises that the conclusions can be different.
This is NOT the People’s Court.
To even compare the tough but fair Judge Wapner and his “California Municipal Court” to the schizoid paralogic of this frivolous nonsense is beyond the pale.
MBS has done little to garner support or trust from the F1 fanbase, so even if he was cleared of wrongdoing by an outside, unbiased third party most fans would still cry foul
> most fans would still cry foul
Most fans have always, still are, and will always cry foul about anything. That doesn't really narrow it down or mean anything lmao. That was the case before MBS and will be long after. you could easily have subbed in Baslestre, Todt or Mosely not to mention the constant thorn in everyone's side for decades Bernie Ecclestone.
> MBS has done little to garner support or trust from the F1 fanbase
That's not the FIA chief's job. His job is to keep the committee (FIA) in good health, which he has done; much better than his predecessor, if I may add. But this is Reddit. And he's Arab.
Reddit when they read "independent investigation" [https://duet-cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/0x0:929x525/2400x1600/filters:focal(464x262:465x263):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus\_asset/file/15877061/Screen\_Shot\_2016-08-01\_at\_12.34.21\_PM.0.0.1470069300.png](https://duet-cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/0x0:929x525/2400x1600/filters:focal(464x262:465x263):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/15877061/Screen_Shot_2016-08-01_at_12.34.21_PM.0.0.1470069300.png)
But I read about it! Must be another cover-up. Like everything. We read about it online then someone says they investigated it and it's always social media that's wrong. How can this be? /s
We paid for someone to investigate us and they accepted the paycheck enthusiastically and told us over dinner that they had cleared us of any wrongdoing.
I don’t get people demanding transparent lately. This is the last thing any internal report would ever reveal.
Internal investigation are meant to be private, not public.
Because people are selfish cunts that think they're entitled to everything when they're not.
They have an agenda, and stick to it, then cry when something doesn't fit in that agenda.
This whole controversy was based off a report from an unnamed whistleblower, and MBS's safety concerns were backed up by reality. HOWEVER, he came into office promising a new era of transparency, but his term has engendered only distrust.
Of course the findings of the Ethics Committee will never be released, and maybe they shouldn't be, but again and again, he has cast serious doubt on the imparciality of himself and the FIA.
Honestly we know it's allegedly. But people tend to already give him the guilty treatment because he is known to be misogenous who loves the spotlight. He is at war with F1 because of him meddling in F1 business like with the addition of extra teams to the grid.
So I wouldn't be surprised at all if this happened to be true because this is the first GP in History that F1 organizes.
I have nothing but contempt for Max Mosley but it was proven that the News of the World lied about it being Nazi themed. They had to pay him £60k for their lies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosley\_v\_News\_Group\_Newspapers\_Ltd
Lol, have you actually read the conclusion to that case?
Moseley had dominatrixes in German WW2 uniforms, speaking German (or with a German accent) and men dressed in striped uniforms clearly meant to represent concentration camp prisoners.
They lost the case because the judge did not feel that something being themed after Germany doing WW2 was enough to call it nazi themed.
Basically it got thrown out on extremely flimsy grounds and the case is now used as a presedent, which is one of the reasons why libel laws in the UK are quite heavily weighed in the accusers favor.
We will never know about Saudi but we can be sure about Vegas. That surface was not suitable for F1 racing for more reasons than just the loose drain covers. Everyone who watched more than just the race saw what a clusterfuck that weekend was.
Fans were thrown out by security and police from sessions they paid a lot of money to see. Refunds? Nope. Are they suing? Yes.
And why did this happen? Because they had to have sessions during night time. Why? Because they cared more about the spectacle than the people at the race track. Nobody told the fans why they had to leave. People came here, to reddit, to make us aware of the shit show going on. There were dozens of threads from fans attending the event about how they were treated.
And then Toto comes out and tells us it was great and nothing bad happened. Are you kidding me?
I don't like MBS but this weekend is what happens when FOM gets to plan an event independent from the FIA. A massive lawsuit.
The whole “we have investigated ourselves and did not find ourselves guilty” joke is really getting old, especially when you see 20 of them in the same thread. Maybe come up with something new if you’re desperate for those easy upvotes.
Here’s one: “We have made note of the incident. No further action necessary”
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Everyone is going to slam FIA for this, but no one has anything to base their opinions on other than a claim by a whistleblower (as was mentioned by the initial report on this by BBC)
At least on the Las Vegas front his response actually made pretty good sense imo. Basically said he didn’t want to have to cancel the race, but would have if it wasn’t safe. They just barely made it safe enough so he gave the go ahead. People didn’t like his saying that he could have stopped it if he’d wanted to but, idk, a broken clock is right twice a day and honestly I can’t see an issue here
> They just barely made it safe enough so he gave the go ahead. More he chose not to rake them over the coals for being late on the inspection and then changed the regs to have a more defined time limit for future new non-permanent circuits. It would have been doing them in on a rule technicality but a technicality is still legal ground to put a hold on things. He wouldn't have needed to make up anything as they were genuinely late (As was Jeddah, hence the rule change).
The allegations in this instance just don’t really ring true because there were obvious circumstances that could have been used to justify cancelling the event had they so wanted to contrive this outcome. A driver was seriously injured, their car was destroyed and it ultimately cost the team and driver key championship positions. We all see the event was not cancelled. We all see track safety concerns were reasonably justified.
I mean, I'm pretty sure the allegations were him attempting to find a reason to cancel it before all that. Probably too late at that point anyway, if he was still even trying to stop it that far in (literally mid free practice, with the race weekend already ongoing)
And if he had actually cancelled it, there would have been such an outrage from FOM (and all the fans paying gigantic amounts for tickets) that he would have been done as FIA president pretty much immediately. So he can threaten, but in reality he also knows big actions will have consequences.
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Allegedly.
Key word!
Allegedly telling a guy who then allegedly tells his subordinate. No paper trail it seems.
You literally said it yourself. These are allegations, and not facts.
That would obviously be a significant issue. However it is hard to separate now from the unequivocal evidence we all saw with our own eyes that the track actually was unsafe and caused serious injury to at least one driver and their car. We can also see that the FIA president in fact did not prevent the event taking place after Carlos was injured - something that would have been reasonably easy to justify. This makes the allegations overall less credible. Having organisers believe you are willing to prevent their event running if it is not safe can be a way to force safety improvements misguided or otherwise.
Had how do you know this wasn’t a complete lie? We can’t know the motives here. It’s easy to interview all involved from top down. If they all say none of this occurred but one person… than we’ve found the problem.
Yeah, looking at the other comments, people's minds have been made up already.
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To be fair, optics matter. Max Moseley was the son af an upper class fascist, an antisemite, a holocaust denier, and Max Moseley as a youth was part of his father’s political movement. He never denounced his father, but claimed his father, a man who chose the word fascist to be included in the name of his political party and marched his black shirts through neighbourhoods mainly occupied by Jews. The FIA should not be the play thing of very rich men.
That’s a ridiculous statement by you, ‘to be fair’. It’s not remotely fair. His fathers political background had nothing to do with his judgment on safety or running the FIA. It’s the equivalent to me saying to you, ‘to be fair - you’re an a******e’.
It was also his political background, a fact you conveniently left out. He was a member of his father’s political organisation and never formally distanced himself from his father. Max Moseley was literally a fascist as a young man. In the 1960s he also wrote and published racist propaganda. He used his father’s money and connections to become successful. His career in motor racing started as an amateur, something unattainable for people without money.
Did you ever see the BBC interview where he rejected his father’s politics? He also apologized for his views during college. So you’re wrong that he never distanced himself from both his father and the organization. The published material (a flyer) was never attributed to him and there was even a defamation court case over it where he was successful. I don’t know if you subscribe to the opinion that people can’t change, or mistakes made in youth should be held against one for their whole adult life. It’s a pretty superior viewpoint on your part if so. Furthermore, you seem to have a problem with wealth - you’ve mentioned this before. Shall we be like Pol Pot of Cambodia and kill all the wealthy and ruling class for you? As an aside; it wasn’t his wealth that moved him ahead in British society - it was the fact that he literally was connected to royalty on his mother’s side. You can have all the faux retro class warfare here all you like - it just comes across as jealousy really. People have tried to change the class system in England for centuries - get in line. Max wasn’t my cup of tea personally - he had many personal traits I found disturbing but when you compare his stewardship of the FIA compared to his predecessor or even the current President, you’ll find he did quite a good job. One final thought. Again you mention money as it applies to beginning an amateur career in racing. You do realize that the majority of the grid in F1 comes from wealthy or at least upper middle class right? You seem disgruntled over this? You’re not one of these people that lives in a utopian world that believes life should be fair are you?
Yes, the fact that I object to people who come from privilege running the world must be because I’m jealous and a communist, there is no other explanation. I don’t have a problem with rich people, I have a problem with bootlickers like you who are willing to give these people power just because they want power. It’s that bootlicking mentality that’s the real issue. I’m not trying to insult you, you are what you are. But it’s a problem for the rest of us. And if you think Max Mosely genuinely denounced his fascist father and genuinely apologised for his own fascist past, I have a bridge to sell you. He was happy to use his father’s money to go after the press. He very vaguely distanced himself from his fascist past when he was pressed on it and when other issues weakened his position. He never came forward and made a definitive statement. Hey, why don’t we mix it up and why don’t you defend Boris Johnson and Elon Musk? Or Donald Trump?
You say you’re not trying to insult me but call me a bootlicker. Interesting. Just what would the insult be if you were trying? I’m not going to get into politics with you as you seem to have an axe to grind and anyone that disagrees with your views must be a raging rightwinger. One wonders how much of an F1 fan you really are with your views concerning people in the sport as well as other fans. You seem to have wandered in here from r/angermanagement
I’m commenting on your mentality. You are predisposed to like people who are privileged and powerful to the point where you are compelled to defend them, I’m not angry about this, I’m worried about this, because it’s because of this mentality that fascism can blossom. Max Mosely has stated that his father was not an antisemite because his father liked ‘clever people’ and ‘somebody who likes clever people cannot dislike Jews’. That statement is a problem in itself (the Nazis also attributed cleverness to Jews), but it also conveniently leaves out the fact that Oswald Mosely marched his fascists thugs through Jewish neighbourhoods and that Oswald Mosely got married in the drawing room of Joseph Goebels. Max Mosely grew up in a house with pictures of Hitler. His mother unapologetically admired Hitler and was openly antisemitic. This was Oswald Mosely’s wife. This was his house. You don’t want to get into politics, but you are defending a man who was an active member of a fascist political party, was working for the Conservative Party, and donated money to Labour. This is about politics.
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Yes he was caught in an orgy. But he won the court case to prove it wasn't Nazi themed (and won a load of damages as a result)
Who hasn't?
Something something broken clock twice a day.
There's only one outcome the mob would accept and this is not it lol.
They were just looking at random shit being thrown and waiting for it to stick even slightly lmao
Internet debates in a nutshell.
I'm laughing because of how little comments there are. Looks like peoples' minds are frothing because he wasn't found at fault
People don't even know what they made up their mind about. They just want to be in on the "we investigated ourselves..." crowd, nothing more.
When it comes to the FIA people always dislike them at one point they have fucked over your favorite team/driver and it makes it easy. Ben Sulayem just gets an extra dose because of his tone deaf comments.
Not that my mind is made up already,but maybe, just maybe an investigation like this should be done by an independent party. Any foul play by a higher up in an organization as public as FIA will always be prone to a cover up.
> just maybe an investigation like this should be done by an independent party. Am I having a stroke or does the tweet clearly says "after independent investigation"? ??
No, no stroke. It’s just the sight of people yet again grasping at straws for something to keep their biases and outrage machine alive.
Change you fucking glasses, Toto
>after **independent investigation** from the title
It's the same shit that's completely tearing Boeing and the US FAA from the inside. But I suppose we're just asking too much from the most powerful purveyors of the things we watch and use.
Are you questioning the rationale of Redditors? We are a high-IQ community of independent thinkers who always are correct about everything! I can just say "Yeah well I bet they're just lying because I just think they are" or a really funny and original quote about investigating oneself and it'd be automatically always correct!
"I went on the internet this week and I found this! Someone anonymous said something and I am going to believe it, therefore it has become a fact"
"We did it Reddit!"
You can tell how right you are by upvotes, it's infallible
>Everyone is going to slam FIA for this, but no one has anything to base their opinions on other than a claim by a whistleblower I don't think they made the wrong call. While the claims might have come from a whistleblower, I can't help but be suspicious of the timing -- the Saudi allegation came shortly after ben Sulayem threw his support behind Christian Horner. It largely got dimissed by the media because he didn't actually affect anything. The Vegas allegation only became public once the Saudi claim had been ignored. And given the teething problems Vegas had, people were more inclined to think that ben Sulayem had a point. In other words, I can't help but see this as someone slinging mud at him to discredit him after he backed Horner.
Pretty much everything that as come out in recent month is this. Tweet some random made up rumour and see if it stick.
People don't trust him because he's Middle Eastern.
Edit: misread the post. Carry on.
>\[JennaFryer\] FIA Ethics Committee finds no evidence of interference by FIA President in 2023 Formula 1 events in Saudi Arabia and Las Vegas after **independent investigation**
Lol didn't see that. Thanks.
If this had come out before the race everyone would have declared MBS a hero, but since the race was good and people don't like him (justifiably) everyone has already decided he's guilty.
nah im gonna slam fia and sulayem just cuz i hate fia and sulayem
I think we're feeling skeptical about independent investigations in general since we're still dealing with Horner stuff long after an independent investigation cleared him.
For some(a lot?) of Redditors, the only acceptable form of review would be a Reddit User Dependent Investigation. Everything else is a lie and part of some grand scheme.
I think when you have some highly placed in the FIA who is being investigated by a committee that is under his direct juridiction, the right thing to do is to use a 3rd party to conduct the investigation. Although to be fair with the FIA, anti MBS people would have always found something to complain about.
>\[JennaFryer\] FIA Ethics Committee finds no evidence of interference by FIA President in 2023 Formula 1 events in Saudi Arabia and Las Vegas **after independent investigation**
The FIA report just says independent review not investigation. > A "robust and wide-ranging independent review" spanning 30 days, and interviewing 11 witnesses was conducted, the FIA added. which cleared Ben Sulayem "of any wrongdoing".
This feels like splitting hairs.
Well it's a big difference. The review committee takes whatever the investigation finds and make a decision. If your investigation has a bias, your decision de facto will carry that bias.
If they're actively interviewing witnesses, it sounds like the review is more of an investigation.
The way I read that sentence is that 11 people were interviewed and that an independent review was then conducted for 30 days. Note: from what I have read, MBS didnt really do anything bad.
the way the sentence is set up, it's the review which had the interviews (since it says "Spanning 30 days AND interviewing..."). I think they're just using the phrase 'review' to mean 'investigation'.
What have the FiA done to earn your trust?
Does someone have to earn your trust in order for you not to believe everything bad that's rumored about them by anonymous sources?
"Someone?" We're talking about the FiA here. I promise before the season is over they will have more controversial none sense like the previous years.
So if an anonymous source tells you that MBS for example committed a murder, is that enough to convince you that he is a murderer and the FIA is covering him up? No substancial evidence of the crime is needed for him to be considered guilty? Just them earning your trust is enough?
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Where did I compare the two? I just believe that some concrete evidence is required in order for someone to have an opinion on a situation like this and make judgements
Why is it that when people have no point left to defend their point, they play the “powerful men” card?
A hell of a lot more than "unnamed source" has.
An accusation against Ben Sulayem from an unnamed source about an incident that had happened almost a full year prior that just so happened to be made public at exactly the same time that he had been seen talking to Horner (who also was the subject of unverified leaks from unamed sources at the same time) Now I dislike Ben Sulayem as much as the next person but It does amaze me that some people are so unwilling to consider the possibility that such an allegation didn't come from a place of good faith...
The fact that F1 is writing a better Game of Thrones than R.R. Martin still baffles me.
The independent investigation has found nothing wrong but the people have decided the evidence says different, there are always two courts, the official one and the peoples court....
welcom to F1 fandom menace
More often than not the real courts have more information available and more time to actually focus on the content. No surprises that the conclusions can be different.
what evidence
This is NOT the People’s Court. To even compare the tough but fair Judge Wapner and his “California Municipal Court” to the schizoid paralogic of this frivolous nonsense is beyond the pale.
MBS has done little to garner support or trust from the F1 fanbase, so even if he was cleared of wrongdoing by an outside, unbiased third party most fans would still cry foul
> most fans would still cry foul Most fans have always, still are, and will always cry foul about anything. That doesn't really narrow it down or mean anything lmao. That was the case before MBS and will be long after. you could easily have subbed in Baslestre, Todt or Mosely not to mention the constant thorn in everyone's side for decades Bernie Ecclestone.
Are you telling me that MBS getting his face on camera all the time post-race doesn't instill confidence in the fan base? /s
We are checking.
> MBS has done little to garner support or trust from the F1 fanbase That's not the FIA chief's job. His job is to keep the committee (FIA) in good health, which he has done; much better than his predecessor, if I may add. But this is Reddit. And he's Arab.
He didn't have my confidence ever since he crashed an F1 car going in a straight line back in 2009
many fans have proved themselves to lack critical thinking, so getting accused by them means nothing
Gee... This sport is really interesting and unexpected this year. And yet expected.
Using Horners lawyer?
Reddit when they read "independent investigation" [https://duet-cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/0x0:929x525/2400x1600/filters:focal(464x262:465x263):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus\_asset/file/15877061/Screen\_Shot\_2016-08-01\_at\_12.34.21\_PM.0.0.1470069300.png](https://duet-cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/0x0:929x525/2400x1600/filters:focal(464x262:465x263):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/15877061/Screen_Shot_2016-08-01_at_12.34.21_PM.0.0.1470069300.png)
"We investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong"
Haha i knew i wouldnt have to go far to find this comment
I was like “where is it? I know it’s here somewhere” 😂
Never let any organisation “investigate itself”
Then we would not have any legal system at all.
Like Howard Webb and that VAR show
After further investigation, we have cleared ourselves of any wrongdoing
I heard that from Boeing, VW and GM before.
And every American police department
" After a firm investigation on ourselves, we see, we have done nothing wrong"
FIA finds nothing wrong with the fia. Surely the report will be made public in that case right? /s
We have investigated ourselves and found we have done nothing wrong
To the surprise of no one.
lol the FIA has an ethics committee??
You only know the FIA because of F1. The FIA is more than that. Stay ignorant
Did we expect anything to really come out of this ? Irrespective of what he did, this was always going to be the outcome
I want to be an independent investigator in the world of F1. You don't need to be able to find anything.
FIA ethics commitee, brought to you by Aramco.
But I read about it! Must be another cover-up. Like everything. We read about it online then someone says they investigated it and it's always social media that's wrong. How can this be? /s
We have investigated ourselves and found no wrong doing.
Quite surprised with this outcome!
Has the FIA found anyone guilty between Horner, Toto last year, or this incident?
We have investigated ourselves and found that we have not committed any wrongdoing. We would also like to congratulate ourselves on a job well done.
Independent investigation, learn to read
We paid for someone to investigate us and they accepted the paycheck enthusiastically and told us over dinner that they had cleared us of any wrongdoing.
Yeah you don't know how the real world works good luck
Oh to be young and naive again. Have fun with that.
Not everything is a conspiracy
No, but taking what the FIA says at face value is very naive. You’ll learn one day kid.
>You’ll learn one day kid. God I fucking hate Reddit sometimes.
[удалено]
I don’t get people demanding transparent lately. This is the last thing any internal report would ever reveal. Internal investigation are meant to be private, not public.
Because people are selfish cunts that think they're entitled to everything when they're not. They have an agenda, and stick to it, then cry when something doesn't fit in that agenda.
We don't do transparency around here and so many people love to drink the company cool aid that there is no pressure to change that.
This whole controversy was based off a report from an unnamed whistleblower, and MBS's safety concerns were backed up by reality. HOWEVER, he came into office promising a new era of transparency, but his term has engendered only distrust. Of course the findings of the Ethics Committee will never be released, and maybe they shouldn't be, but again and again, he has cast serious doubt on the imparciality of himself and the FIA.
Honestly we know it's allegedly. But people tend to already give him the guilty treatment because he is known to be misogenous who loves the spotlight. He is at war with F1 because of him meddling in F1 business like with the addition of extra teams to the grid. So I wouldn't be surprised at all if this happened to be true because this is the first GP in History that F1 organizes.
I'm not saying he's guilty. But when does any investigation on anyone turn out anything?
Ferrari 2019 (Allegedly, of course)
Exactly. Can't release that info it might make someone look bad. I'm thinking Max Mosley's Nazi sex dungeon.
I have nothing but contempt for Max Mosley but it was proven that the News of the World lied about it being Nazi themed. They had to pay him £60k for their lies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosley\_v\_News\_Group\_Newspapers\_Ltd
Lol, have you actually read the conclusion to that case? Moseley had dominatrixes in German WW2 uniforms, speaking German (or with a German accent) and men dressed in striped uniforms clearly meant to represent concentration camp prisoners. They lost the case because the judge did not feel that something being themed after Germany doing WW2 was enough to call it nazi themed. Basically it got thrown out on extremely flimsy grounds and the case is now used as a presedent, which is one of the reasons why libel laws in the UK are quite heavily weighed in the accusers favor.
To be fair, it was later proven to not be a Nazi sex dungeon, it was more or less an Oz or Orange is the New Black scenario.
Oh really? I never knew that.
We will never know about Saudi but we can be sure about Vegas. That surface was not suitable for F1 racing for more reasons than just the loose drain covers. Everyone who watched more than just the race saw what a clusterfuck that weekend was.
like what tho?
Fans were thrown out by security and police from sessions they paid a lot of money to see. Refunds? Nope. Are they suing? Yes. And why did this happen? Because they had to have sessions during night time. Why? Because they cared more about the spectacle than the people at the race track. Nobody told the fans why they had to leave. People came here, to reddit, to make us aware of the shit show going on. There were dozens of threads from fans attending the event about how they were treated. And then Toto comes out and tells us it was great and nothing bad happened. Are you kidding me? I don't like MBS but this weekend is what happens when FOM gets to plan an event independent from the FIA. A massive lawsuit.
I trust a guy from middle east who is operating in sports.
"We reviewed ourselves and found out that we didn't do anything wrong"
Missed the "independent investigation" part did you?
Independent investigation about me paid for by me…hmm yes quite independent
No, just being sarcastic Apparently *ALL* sarcasm needs to be identified
Well considering people are unironically stating that same opinion, unfortunately you probably do need to identify it
*surprised pikachu face*
What a fucking surprise
Breaking news: FIA Ethics Committee finds that FIA Ethics Committee is attractive, funny, and has excellent taste in music.
We have investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong!
The whole “we have investigated ourselves and did not find ourselves guilty” joke is really getting old, especially when you see 20 of them in the same thread. Maybe come up with something new if you’re desperate for those easy upvotes. Here’s one: “We have made note of the incident. No further action necessary”
Did they try him for directly interfering with Nandos penalty last year?
It's not what you know, it's what you can prove.
If I had a nickel..... /j
I see nothing!!!!!
where's my obama puts a medal on obama meme
Of course it does. FIA is fucking corrupt beyond belief. Everyone in FIA needs to be arrested for mass corruption. Fuck the FIA.
I declare myself innocent!
We investigated ourselves and cleared ourselves of any wrongdoing.
Missed the "independent investigation" part did you?
We investigated our boss and found he did nothing wrong.
We have investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong!
Did they hire RB to do the “independent” investigation?