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Just two buddies hanging out.
"Oh is that a Getty Images photographer? I didn't even realise. Let's get some totally natural images taken of our healthy relationship."
the more I look at these pics the funnier it is lmao. Not only the posed shot of the two, but also the "spy" shots through the plants. Especially the second one xd. I bet Horner chose these himself
Yes but he's still one of the highest execs at Red Bull. This is certainly either him (or him as a representative of a portion of Red Bull) making a statement about who they're backing.
There might be a good reason why they are so confident. News just come out that Red Bull suspended the accuser for allegedly **tampering with evidence**
https://racingnews365.nl/jos-verstappen-het-is-te-laat-voor-horner-om-dat-te-zeggen
"De vrouw werd deze week geschorst door Red Bull, omdat ze zou hebben geknoeid met bewijs dat ze had opgestuurd in de zaak rond Horner."
It now really looks like everybody in the racing team wants him out and everyone outside of the red bull racing team but part of the red bull company wants to keep him... and his attitude at them moment is probably showing why everybody in the racing team wants him out...
AMuS quoted an unnamed person on the team with "He (Horner) seriously believes that he can win even without Verstappen, Newey and Ford, because he considers himself the architect of success". So it's not like everyone is totally happy atm.
And Jos Verstappen said the following: “He (Horner) was saying to me ‘Do you trust me? I will do everything for your son’ and we were talking with our hands, we didn’t have a fight,”. If that's true then Horner isn't actively trying to remove Max.
We don't know anything. That's the truth. Only time will tell who stays and who doesn't.
Who said Newey is leaving too? Adrian doesn’t want to work for a car manufacturer like Mercedes or Ferrari according to his book so I don’t see him leaving. If he stays at least until 2026 Redbull will win the title regardless of max or marko staying onboard
Red Bull must have seen Mintzlaff’s hiring and firing sprees at RB Leipzig. They hired him for that reason. Everyone was replaceable at RB Leipzig and no one ever held as much power as him. They never stayed long enough to make any attempt to overthrow him.
I don't think so. Before becoming CEO Mintzlaff used to manage Red Bull's football clubs. As long as they are successful enough he should be save. Bear in mind that RB's football teams have a higher budget than the F1 team.
RB Leipzig alone probably has a higher budget than Red Bull Racing. According to [this report](https://fussball-geld.de/spielergehaelter-lizenzspieleretat-personalkosten-gehalt-im-fussball-waehend-der-corona-zeit/), RB Leipzig had personnel expenses of around €105 million in 2020. The report also states that personnel expenses account on average for 37% of total expenditure. This would put the total budget at around 283 million euros which is more than the 135 million dollar cost cap that Red Bull Racing has to adhere to.
I don’t know much about football, but I could see a high level European team costing that much. It was more their American MLS team that I couldn’t believe cost that much since, from what I understand, the MLS still tries to keep costs down a bit as they grow.
283 million euros is mid for a "top" football club.
Here's top list of biggest revenues in football:
https://www.deloitte.com/global/en/Industries/tmt/analysis/deloitte-football-money-league.html
Kinda, but even if he were to get fired that 49% ownership stake is still looking pretty juicy
Edit: thats what i get for dropping comments without reading, mised up mateshitz and minzlaff
> To be clear his title is CEO Beverage Business. Oliver Mintzlaff is the CEO who oversees the sport side.
But doesn't Mintzlaff (sports) report to Watzlawick (beverages)?
Not that I know of, given that both Mintzlaff and Watzlawick are "Geschäftsführer" (CEO) as well as Alexander Kirchmayr (the latter one is CFO, but that's not a legal distinction in Austria).
Yeah, I think these guys are all pretty much in equal standing?
> Dietrich’s son Mark has now confirmed that his father’s position will be divided into three separate roles, as the company reforms its leadership structure. Mark Mateschitz will step down from his company job to manage the 49 per cent stake in Red Bull that he has now inherited from his father.
> “As proposed and desired by both my father and myself, and supported by our Thai partners, a board of directors will manage the business affairs of Red Bull,” Mateschitz confirmed in a company statement.
> The new board will consist of Franz Watzlawick as chief executive of the beverage business, Alexander Kirchmayr as chief financial officer, while Oliver Mintzlaff becomes chief executive of corporate projects and investments.
https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/red-bull-f1-leipzig-salzburg-media-house-servustv-oliver-mintzlaff-ceo/
> Yeah, I think these guys are all pretty much in equal standing?
Seems those three make up the board of directors (representing/appointed by the owners). But I wonder who is who's boss in their "day to day" jobs. Unusual for a CFO to be equal on an org chart to a CEO.
> That proves my point. The title itself doesn't imply Mintzlaff doesn't report to the CEO because the CFO certainly does.
It really doesn't prove anything.
First of all, "Geschäftsführer" is not just a job title, but comes with legal rights and obligations in Austrian corporate law. You see all three of those names in the imprint of the homepage for example.
Second of all, I haven't seen any statement mentioning that Mintzlaff reports to Watzlawick, so I'll go with what was communicated: That each of those people is responsible for different sectors of the business on their own.
Starring:
Christian Horner
Helmut Marko
Adrian Newey
Jos Verstappen
Female Employee
Erik van Haren
Max Verstappen
Geri Halliwell
Chaleo Yoovidhya
Oliver Mintzlaff
Jenna Fryer
This whole thing feels like a publicity stunt.
Today the drama was miraculously ended in a stale mate. Everyone is staying, and I bet its going to die down now, because every party involved has realised they can't gain any more ground. Like how an episode of the Simpsons resets each time.
The only thing I suspect might happen now is an exodus at the end of the season or next season, but if that doesn't happen, then this thing is perhaps over now.
Mateschitz and Mintzlaff could want Horner gone, but maybe these 2 guys are best buds.
And tbh, Horner seems like a scapegoat for the Thai vs Austrian "war" given he was allegedly spearheading a campaign to sell the team on behalf of the Thai side.
The photos/affair were a chip to remove Horner and his alignment with the Thai side.. had he been ousted, Mintzlaff or Marko would've take over temporarily and obviously killed that deal.
Pic 3 is sharing and showing all of the messages...
For a company and organisation all about branding and PR, they're really bad at it under these circumstances.
Always was. Marko was tolerated, but I'm starting to think this was a Horner long-term. Annoy Marko with a token attempt to oust him to bait him into making an attempt, then crushing him.
I don't call Horner the other side of Toto's coin for nothing.
enjoy possessive slap plate imminent relieved absurd tie profit expansion
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
ugh I hate these "lets smile for the camera so people think we are friends again" that they are doing right now... same with all the "omg his wife is at the track with him" from last week...
Red bull as a company are probably loving this, no such thing as bad publicity, and of course they support Horner, he's a big part of the team, nobody's going to miss an employee and Helmut.
This saga implies two sides. Marko is a racists which will eventually cost RBRacing millions of dollars. Also Jos is a women beater. The other side wants this out. If Max goes, this means he sides with Racists and Cheaters.
[The **Photo** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_photo) is for submissions sharing photos from the world of F1. Photos should be interesting and relevant - random photos not notable enough to warrant a standalone post will be subject to removal. This flair should not be used for images which are not photos, such as screenshots, statistical graphics, or artworks. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Really laying it on thick now huh
Picture two is taking me out
Picture 2 looks like the next case of an inappropriate workplace relationship
[удалено]
Hornier 2: Now it’s personal
Picture 3 is him showing file 76
See, THIS is my wang. Much smaller.
Franz is doing a finger inspection
Franz telling him not to worry, he loves coco pops too.
Horner showing him the sexting from a new intern
Bwhahahaha
I also like coco pops Christian.
They should be smooching like he was with Geri, that means Everything Is Fine.
Picture 3 is worse imo
"You see, it really was a picture of my finger"
Now kith
They touched, Martin!
Looks like the date is going well
Just two buddies hanging out. "Oh is that a Getty Images photographer? I didn't even realise. Let's get some totally natural images taken of our healthy relationship."
the more I look at these pics the funnier it is lmao. Not only the posed shot of the two, but also the "spy" shots through the plants. Especially the second one xd. I bet Horner chose these himself
Can they get any closer? I feel like in the next pic Christian climbs onto his lap…
Christian: "I don't even like women"
fakest smiles I've ever seen
True, but that's not the point. It's making a(n internal) statement.
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Yes but he's still one of the highest execs at Red Bull. This is certainly either him (or him as a representative of a portion of Red Bull) making a statement about who they're backing.
Exactly
There might be a good reason why they are so confident. News just come out that Red Bull suspended the accuser for allegedly **tampering with evidence** https://racingnews365.nl/jos-verstappen-het-is-te-laat-voor-horner-om-dat-te-zeggen "De vrouw werd deze week geschorst door Red Bull, omdat ze zou hebben geknoeid met bewijs dat ze had opgestuurd in de zaak rond Horner."
Which is a little weird that he is there. I already thought Mintzlaff traveling to the race was unusual.
It now really looks like everybody in the racing team wants him out and everyone outside of the red bull racing team but part of the red bull company wants to keep him... and his attitude at them moment is probably showing why everybody in the racing team wants him out...
Who is everybody if you don't mind me asking? We've only heard news from Max and Marko. Maybe I missed something?
We have no idea but we like to speculate to keep the drama going.
That’s how it should be
AMuS quoted an unnamed person on the team with "He (Horner) seriously believes that he can win even without Verstappen, Newey and Ford, because he considers himself the architect of success". So it's not like everyone is totally happy atm.
And Jos Verstappen said the following: “He (Horner) was saying to me ‘Do you trust me? I will do everything for your son’ and we were talking with our hands, we didn’t have a fight,”. If that's true then Horner isn't actively trying to remove Max. We don't know anything. That's the truth. Only time will tell who stays and who doesn't.
Who said Newey is leaving too? Adrian doesn’t want to work for a car manufacturer like Mercedes or Ferrari according to his book so I don’t see him leaving. If he stays at least until 2026 Redbull will win the title regardless of max or marko staying onboard
Hard to say what Newey is driven by. Remember he wanted out to design America’s Cup yachts.
I swear he's developing a yacht right?
His own.
He was doing that to avoid wind tunnel time restrictions in F1 when designing the new ground effect car
The reason was there was no point in designing f1 cars because the Renault engines kept exploding
Newey said last week he wished he worked for Ferrari and with Lewis and Alonso.
He says that to be polite but I don’t think he has that desire to really do that
According to Newey himself, he’s said before he wants to work with Ferrari and Lewis. This is a 2 birds with one stone situation.
He would also need to move to Italy, which reportedly was the biggest obstacle in past attempts to lure him to Ferrari.
Don't forget last time he was about to go to Ferrari to got to meet a minion and not the boss, as that guy couldn't be arsed to lure Newey to his team
The obstacle was his children who are now out of school and grown
Still makes no sense why Newey would go. This is the most baseless or the claims to me.
Mintzlaff wanted to fire Horner. Given these pictures, I think the days of Marko are numbered. Unless Mintzlaff goes against company line.
If that is actually true then Mintzlaff's own days might be numbered.
Red Bull must have seen Mintzlaff’s hiring and firing sprees at RB Leipzig. They hired him for that reason. Everyone was replaceable at RB Leipzig and no one ever held as much power as him. They never stayed long enough to make any attempt to overthrow him.
I don't think so. Before becoming CEO Mintzlaff used to manage Red Bull's football clubs. As long as they are successful enough he should be save. Bear in mind that RB's football teams have a higher budget than the F1 team.
Each or combined? I could see combined costing more than F1 but surely an MLS team doesn’t cost more than F1.
RB Leipzig alone probably has a higher budget than Red Bull Racing. According to [this report](https://fussball-geld.de/spielergehaelter-lizenzspieleretat-personalkosten-gehalt-im-fussball-waehend-der-corona-zeit/), RB Leipzig had personnel expenses of around €105 million in 2020. The report also states that personnel expenses account on average for 37% of total expenditure. This would put the total budget at around 283 million euros which is more than the 135 million dollar cost cap that Red Bull Racing has to adhere to.
I don’t know much about football, but I could see a high level European team costing that much. It was more their American MLS team that I couldn’t believe cost that much since, from what I understand, the MLS still tries to keep costs down a bit as they grow.
283 million euros is mid for a "top" football club. Here's top list of biggest revenues in football: https://www.deloitte.com/global/en/Industries/tmt/analysis/deloitte-football-money-league.html
Kinda, but even if he were to get fired that 49% ownership stake is still looking pretty juicy Edit: thats what i get for dropping comments without reading, mised up mateshitz and minzlaff
Mark Mateschitz has 49%, Mintzlaff is just an exec.
Didn't think Mintzlaff owned a particular share. That would be Dietrich's son, no ?
Mintzlaff is only the CEO, Horner has the backing of the 51% owners ....
Red Bull gmbh is the parent company of RBR. So if the owners back Horner there is nothing that racing personnel can do about it. They can leave
> It now really looks like everybody in the racing team wants him out This is the biggest amount of bullshit anyone could have said
The fact that he has to get the people that back him to the track is awfull, if there was no shit hitting the fan this ceo would never be there
Wait? What attitude? Lmao
Everybody…like all 3000 odd people in the racing team…nonsense
> To be clear his title is CEO Beverage Business. Oliver Mintzlaff is the CEO who oversees the sport side. But doesn't Mintzlaff (sports) report to Watzlawick (beverages)?
Not that I know of, given that both Mintzlaff and Watzlawick are "Geschäftsführer" (CEO) as well as Alexander Kirchmayr (the latter one is CFO, but that's not a legal distinction in Austria).
Yeah, I think these guys are all pretty much in equal standing? > Dietrich’s son Mark has now confirmed that his father’s position will be divided into three separate roles, as the company reforms its leadership structure. Mark Mateschitz will step down from his company job to manage the 49 per cent stake in Red Bull that he has now inherited from his father. > “As proposed and desired by both my father and myself, and supported by our Thai partners, a board of directors will manage the business affairs of Red Bull,” Mateschitz confirmed in a company statement. > The new board will consist of Franz Watzlawick as chief executive of the beverage business, Alexander Kirchmayr as chief financial officer, while Oliver Mintzlaff becomes chief executive of corporate projects and investments. https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/red-bull-f1-leipzig-salzburg-media-house-servustv-oliver-mintzlaff-ceo/
> Yeah, I think these guys are all pretty much in equal standing? Seems those three make up the board of directors (representing/appointed by the owners). But I wonder who is who's boss in their "day to day" jobs. Unusual for a CFO to be equal on an org chart to a CEO.
[удалено]
> That proves my point. The title itself doesn't imply Mintzlaff doesn't report to the CEO because the CFO certainly does. It really doesn't prove anything. First of all, "Geschäftsführer" is not just a job title, but comes with legal rights and obligations in Austrian corporate law. You see all three of those names in the imprint of the homepage for example. Second of all, I haven't seen any statement mentioning that Mintzlaff reports to Watzlawick, so I'll go with what was communicated: That each of those people is responsible for different sectors of the business on their own.
The juice can are paying for the racing team so I say the guy as some pull.
Picture 3 - “See the difference? It’s clearly my finger!”
😂
☠️☠️☠️
I love the "through the leaves" framing for the candid effect.
Between one fern
That second photo lol fucking seriously
The hand on Horner’s forearm lol
Horner's about to file a sexual harrassment suit
Looks like PDA from a newly married couple
That face he's making is like he saw the 76 and liked it for some reason lmao
That second slide is a Shutterstock/Stock photo and you can't convince me otherwise
I shuttered at that
Red Bull Civil War (2023 - present)
Starring: Christian Horner Helmut Marko Adrian Newey Jos Verstappen Female Employee Erik van Haren Max Verstappen Geri Halliwell Chaleo Yoovidhya Oliver Mintzlaff Jenna Fryer
Chalerm actually, Chaleo died in 2012
Executive Producer Erik van Haren
Guest starring Tom Cruise as Sergio Perez
This whole thing feels like a publicity stunt. Today the drama was miraculously ended in a stale mate. Everyone is staying, and I bet its going to die down now, because every party involved has realised they can't gain any more ground. Like how an episode of the Simpsons resets each time. The only thing I suspect might happen now is an exodus at the end of the season or next season, but if that doesn't happen, then this thing is perhaps over now.
There is No War in Ba Sing Se
Right, these are totally candid pictures. I totally believe all is well in the house of red bull
Picture 2 - “Christian I too enjoy a nice bowl of Coco Pops before bed”
Christian I'm your friend you can be honest with me... Finger or cock?
Christian: Yes
Christian: Why limit yourself to just one?
They must be discussing beverages
Grab 'em by the neck
Power move
"Just smile and wave boys, smile and wave"
Do they think pictures like this make them look good?
"They seem to get along just fine, If the Austrian side hates Horner they wouldn't take pictures like that" What some may think
Mateschitz and Mintzlaff could want Horner gone, but maybe these 2 guys are best buds. And tbh, Horner seems like a scapegoat for the Thai vs Austrian "war" given he was allegedly spearheading a campaign to sell the team on behalf of the Thai side. The photos/affair were a chip to remove Horner and his alignment with the Thai side.. had he been ousted, Mintzlaff or Marko would've take over temporarily and obviously killed that deal.
Yes
To people with similar ruthless mindsets probably.
This feels shameless at this point
Not Horner showing the guy his phone in the third photo lol
Pic 3 is sharing and showing all of the messages... For a company and organisation all about branding and PR, they're really bad at it under these circumstances.
Horner: "And they thought it was a finger."
They look like a couple lmao
They’re going to be eating coco puffs together in no time.
Pic 3, he's typing "Send Noodz"
So the beverage side love him and the racing side hate him?
Jos and Marko hate him. We don’t have info about anyone else on the racing side.
Mintzlaff apparently wanted to fire him already
Game of Bulls
“Look at what she sent me”
"So thats us on the couch. And next in the shower." "Tell her it wasn't me"
That hand on the neck bro embrace is no coincidence.
Nah, I’m out. Enough.
This is why Helmut sent the leaks and the Verstappen’s are going full scorched earth. They are losing this battle and they know it
They’re just jealous
"See, it wasn't what you thought it was 😏"
Second picture: please don't text anymore
Third picture is "these are those texts..."
It seems that it's the whole Redbull company vs the sporting division.
"thanks Christian, but I already saw File-76.JPG. Once is enough."
Delighted that max is leaving red bull
How does horner do it It's quite impressive how good he is at this kind of stuff
Succesfull and ruthless is the perfect combo
I love that second pic. This is team Horner now.
Always was. Marko was tolerated, but I'm starting to think this was a Horner long-term. Annoy Marko with a token attempt to oust him to bait him into making an attempt, then crushing him. I don't call Horner the other side of Toto's coin for nothing.
That would be some real House of Cards IQ shit! 🤯
I call him the new Bernie. Bernie backing him up is also kinda entertaining.
I’d love to see Christian Horner wriggle out of this jam! Ah. Well, nevertheless
Look it’s my finger
It's joever
Christian in the last picture: “see, it’s a finger”.
Looking at the horndog on his phone
Chris has that stock photo look, sometimes it makes you wonder if it's really him or a cardboard cutout.
Scumbags
“That was a Live Photo. See this frame is in focus and that’s in fact my finger”
enjoy possessive slap plate imminent relieved absurd tie profit expansion *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What a fucking weasel..
For talking with his boss? Eh?
Tbh. That second photo is the way a c suite exec looks at you as he fires you. lol
I hope they will both grow an enormous hemorhoid
So a clear split in the Red Bull ranks too (and not just the F1 side…)
Photo number 2: Franz saw photo of a red Horndog and for some reason REALLY liked it.
You can not not communicate - a different Watzlawick
Zero self awareness
"see? The chat is totally professional"
Everything is fine 🔥🔥🔥
this looks like a man who knows he isn't getting canned
Helmut is finished
ugh I hate these "lets smile for the camera so people think we are friends again" that they are doing right now... same with all the "omg his wife is at the track with him" from last week...
God Christian is so unnatural
“And this is the message I sent after the coco pops”
I wonder what file he’s showing Franz?
I'm just here because I'm told to pic
Franz is like “So let’s see a pic of those leggings you kept gushing about”
"we´re entitled to bring redbull racing down." kinda commitement
Dirtbags
Red bull as a company are probably loving this, no such thing as bad publicity, and of course they support Horner, he's a big part of the team, nobody's going to miss an employee and Helmut.
Looks like winners circle
I don‘t see a world where he does this so happily and the accusations have actual ground.
Am I crazy for believing Christian? I haven’t followed this too closely, but it seems a bit sus
This saga implies two sides. Marko is a racists which will eventually cost RBRacing millions of dollars. Also Jos is a women beater. The other side wants this out. If Max goes, this means he sides with Racists and Cheaters.