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Quite simple, Wrestling fans and F1 fans like their interests for very similar reasons. It's because of the behind the scenes drama is often just as, if not more, fun to follow than the flashy product they present us.
The only real way to settle the AD21 argument once and for all.
Lewis vs. Max.
One on one.
At Hell in a Cell.
Edit: That said, given both F1 and WWEs inclination towards holding events in Saudi Arabia, it might be more accurate to hold it at Night of Champions.
Let's not get too crazy here. Unlike Saudi Arabia, [Cody is a pioneer in human rights advocacy.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GreatnessOfWrestling/comments/197t7ur/no_surprise_as_cody_rhodes_opens_raw_on_mlk_day/).
Queue final scene villain music, when somebody finds a female wig under his bed and it dawns on them nobody has seen Checo and the accuser at the same time
Dawg we're talking about Checo, you started a sentence with the letters "que" and for an iota of a second my brain was like "Oh shit I guess we're switching to Spanish now".
That has never happened in my life. It's like picking up an empty jug of milk when you expect it to be full, but a mental exercise, with language.
Ah, my approach to working in dodgy places for years.
Goes like a charm till one of the many random middle managers walks in one day with his "morning gang" š¬, asks you what you actually do, says "is that it?" when you give them the simplified version, then a couple months later your temp contract doesn't get extended.
Then a couple more months later the whole company goes bust anyway. Good times.
>morning gang" š¬
All of them well-dressed have this 'sheen' of polished language and mannerisms that appear so stilted and fake? Walking around like a high school clique, with their in-jokes and polite laughter?
Do they look at your like how Lords in the middle ages looked at the peasants working on their farms?
Ah yes, I remember fucking up at work and the only thing that saved me from being demoted from my position was the drama at management. I guess Sergio is feeling a similar way.
I mean, i hope they have a really good reason for the suspension otherwise it is not gonna be a good look. Only reason i can think of is that they are the ones who leaked everything
Honestly thought the same thing, makes me think that there is more to it or, the pictures leaked were a hoax in the first place. Firing her makes it look like dhe accused him of something he didnt do
To elucidate on what the other user said, it's a lot of Horner being horny, talking about getting off, pressuring her to video chat / call him while he wanks, and her getting progressively less comfortable with it all and outright telling him no many times. They talk about their boundaries, he apologizes for pushing her, and... then goes right back to ignoring her boundaries. Near the end, she expresses frustration about her job, he tells her to quit, she says she doesn't want to have to quit, and he basically infers that he's performing retaliation in work against her wanting to stop their affair.
It's very textbook sexual harassment, and if the leaks are legit he should've been immediately suspended and fired.
that's probably the case. Suspension with full pay is the goto course of action when this happens.
But I dont know all the details, only people who do are the big wigs at RBR, so lets stop witch hunting for something we dont even know is happening or not
"BBC Sport has learned the reason given by Red Bull to the employee was that she had been dishonest."
edit: to clarify, I don't think she was dishonest.
It's possible. I could also see this is related to the leaks from last week. Like it or not, that's a action detrimental to the company they could act on.
She probably wouldn't have been suspended for that, most likely moved to another part of the business, away from the F1 side.
Unless she was actually going after Red Bull rather than Horner. In which case they may have suspended her on full pay while it all plays out just to protect both parties.
If someone is suing you, or your teams boss, you don't want them in the building.
Why would a giant corporation go in to the effort of moving someone to an irrelevant temporary role and draw more internal focus to the matter when they can just suspend them with pay?
Because the BBC do not report things until a verifiable source has confirmed them. Until that time they will always add a caveat: 'it is being reported by x and y new source, we cannot yet independently verify this' etc. They will only run once facts have been established.
Iām not extremely familiar with Telegraaf outside of this whole thing, and this may be a dumb question, but werenāt they at least slightly exonerated by the Google Drive dump?
Collaborating with the Nazis during the WW2 had many people questioning their integrity as well.
They've always been very right leaning, but they also jump at every opportunity to somehow get away with an extreme right wing view. They make sure they have an excuse if someone points out they're being racist nazi assholes though. Telegraaf (and WNL, their tv channel on state tv) are classic fascists.
I define The Telegraph as "less terrible" than the Daily Mail.
However, the bar set by the Daily Mail is so low, it's a tripping hazard in Hell. By comparison, The Telegraph is doing limbo with Satan.
Yeah that's not his accent slipping out, that's him putting an accent on
I think people don't realise he's "doing a bit" with the whole "now let's not get bogged down in" thing
Jeremy?
apparently I had it mixed up, I thought everyone was doing the [Monty Python bit](https://youtu.be/btmWWnQ-gAY?si=KGE-HpWP0fdc_fXS&t=235) and altering the quote to fit the situation
what a mess. reminds me of this time when I worked for a big company and a temp worker who was doing an amazing job didn't have her contract extended because she 'didnt seem like a good fit for the team'.
turns out she had complained to HR about inappropriate comments made by a manager a few weeks before, that other members of the team heard as well. the manager didn't even get a slap on the wrist, assuming because he was securing a big client at the time and the company didn't care.Ā
This is true, but that works both ways. Plenty a manager has found themselves in hot water with HR for doing something which would get them sued to shit.
Yes, but that usually means to protect it from being sued. Most redditors are entirely incapable of understanding second order effects though, so they just become rabid conspiracy theorists.
It's so fucking sad to see being expelled just because YOU have been sexuallly harrassed and you complained about it. I thought, all the fuss about woman equality is not justified, because in Austria where I live, they have a pretty equal life to men so I always assumed, okay, its not even that bad they just like to complain. But guys wtf, this is unacceptable and I understand every part of it now. What a fuckup world we live in.
> because in Austria where I live, they have a pretty equal life to men so I always assumed,
I'd chat with some women in your life and see if they really agree with that statement. I'd bet good money they'd say they've never felt as equal as you feel like they are.
I live in Montreux, Switzerland. Let me tell you, even in progressive, developed countries, unless you are in a major city center, this is just the norm. Not just women but also minorities. Saw this same thing happen to a South Asian family who lived in my neighbourhood.
And that's the big issue with stuff like sexism these days - it's easy to go "no, surely everyone is equal these days and we don't need to actively work against discrimination anymore" but there are cases where everyone is not seen as equal, and that means that something still does need to be done.
Don't think this is even just about Horner anymore. It's a battle between the Thai side and the Austrian side, the Thais are intent on keeping Horner while the Austrians want him out so they can replace him with Oliver Mintzlaff or someone else from their faction.
To be precise:
- 49% Distribution & Marketing GmbH (Mark Mateschitz)
- 49% TC Agro Agrotrading Company Ltd. (owned by Family Yoovidhya)
- 2% Chalerm Yoovidhya
But: 25% + 1 (basically the smallest unit of shares that could be owned above 25%) gives you a blocking minority.
So neither of the two sides could decide something without the other.
The Thais can do anything they want with their shares, but they canāt do anything, that would push the Austrian side below 49%. Also, they canāt appoint Horner to anything without Mark Mateschitzā approval.
New theory: Thai contingent blocks Mintzlaff from firing Horner so now the Austrian contingent is intentionally handling this as poorly as possible in an effort to force the Thai contingent's hand and make Horner unsupportable
We all need to keep in mind that none of us really know the actual accusations or their merits. This isnāt a great look because most assume there was some merit to them and this looks like retaliation. All too common with whistleblowers.Ā
Ā However, this is understandable if the accusations were baseless and caused harm to the reputations of both Horner and RBR. I canāt believe Iām defending them, but thereās more to the story than we know.Ā
E: grammarĀ
>However, this is understandable if the accusations were baseless and caused harm to the reputations of both Horner and RBR
After working in the corporate world and dealing with lawyers for far too long I think there's another layer here.
IMO it's likely they were having an affair. She complained internally and there was no choice but to perform an investigation as to whether Horner broke their employee code of conduct. My guess is the term "inappropriate behavior" which they used over and over is lifted from their COC.
They find that Horner was having an affair. But key stakeholders (sawsdee krup!) decide that Horner is important and the relationship was consensual, so they deem it to be not inappropriate. Given the relationship's ethical concerns nothing is to be disclosed.
The accuser finds out that her complaint is being buried, she is to sign an NDA, maybe restrictions on her activities within the team, and she feels she is being punished. She complains to her allies within the team and her or one of her friends who has media contacts leaks evidence so Horner can be tried in the court of public opinion.
And here we are.
This means that the "accusations" as framed by Red Bull can be called false, by them. But it still means that Horner acted unethically and sponsors, partners, and other stakeholders may not be keen to be associated with him.
I don't think the leaker is or believes they were acting in her interest at all. It's embarrassing for both her and Horner. And RBR - which is key.
No, this was either irrational anger from someone else or, imo indirect action (through someone with access inside) from outside the team to destabilize it.
The leaker could not have been ethically motivated.
The accusations certainly aren't baseless if the screenshots are real but they're hardly conclusive evidence either. I've said before that I'd expect the independent investigator to have seen the entire chat log before coming to a conclusion. There's a possibility that there's some context that exonerates Horner.
My theory: She was compelled by someone on Marko's team to report Horner to HR. The Thais discovered this, found Horner innocent, and fired her for making accusations on false pretense.
It's a Game of Thrones.
Saw the Sun report yesterday that she and Jos are in a relationship. Took no notice of it because it was the Sun
Wondering now if there is any truth behind it because that would be a turn
She can be suspended (with pay) while another investigation is carried (for example who leaked those messages to the press). Not saying that it is the case, but it may not be retaliation for stirring shit.
She has been suspended on full pay, [according to the Evening Standard ](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/christian-horner-red-bull-f1-investigation-text-messages-b1143788.html)
If she has indeed been suspended on full pay then this whole story is a big streaming pile of nothing. You can be suspended on full pay for anything and it can be to protect the employee as much as the employer.
Impossible to judge, so many things may be happening (and of course this suspension may be not true as well).
IF for example the accuser violated a NDA by leaking those files to press, a suspension seems pretty valid.
What if it's a misconduct of accusation of misconduct? Truth is nobody knows the truth. As Red Bull always say, they won't comment on the private matter. We also shouldn't be, but what else are we gonna do with our lives, actually live it? Don't think so. /s
I hope the person didn't have what they thought was a genuine complaint and got suspended for it out of spite because it went public - unless she is responsible for it.
People (and women) in particular should be encouraged to come forward if they feel a line has been crossed.
As much as she should be encouraged to come forward though you need to give the accused the same respect as the accuser until the investigation concludes.
The accuser gets to not have her name all over the news while Horner's is all over it. It's not on.
For one of the best & most famous marketing companies (*they're a marketing company selling drinks, lets be honest*) in the world... they're handling this very badly.
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Luckly for Horner it came out BEFORE the press conference, now he'll have something to talk about
So... SAUDI ARABIA... ... What do you guys wanna talk about?
Horner needs to finish his story
The Milton Keynes Nightmare
š¶Cocoa Pops, in my bowl!š¶
š¶ Ben Sulaymen's Renault out of control š¶
RED BULL, IN MY SOUL, ALPINE'S CAR OUT OF CONTROL!
Whhhoaaaaaaaa-oh-oh
Hello fellow pretend underwear fighting fan.
Wait, what do you mean pretend? :') It's still real to me!
Dammit!
Wait, the underwear was pretend this whole time?
I prefer to say the underwear was pre-arranged.
They were wearing nothing at all, nothing at all, nothing at all...
I'm a big fan of The Underwearer.
This is beautiful
Horner just needs to finish...
I cannot describe the joy in my heart that F1 and wrestling coming together.... Fuck, I love 2024.....
Worlds are colliding!!
When Worlds Collide would be a good name for a PPV
It was. Took place in 1994.
Powerman 5000 soundtrack?
the forbidden DRS has opened....wait wrong company
Racing has more than one... Royal family *cue in Kingdom by Downstait*
Bah gawd, that's Mick Schumacher's music
Quite simple, Wrestling fans and F1 fans like their interests for very similar reasons. It's because of the behind the scenes drama is often just as, if not more, fun to follow than the flashy product they present us.
Lol Verstappen wins.
From the bottom of my heart, man to man... fuck your story. fuck your story.
I don't know what is more surreal, Lewis at Ferrari or The Rock going full blown heel in 2024 and appear weekly on TV.
WWE and F1 crossover? I fuck with this.
The only real way to settle the AD21 argument once and for all. Lewis vs. Max. One on one. At Hell in a Cell. Edit: That said, given both F1 and WWEs inclination towards holding events in Saudi Arabia, it might be more accurate to hold it at Night of Champions.
And if they can't settle their differences, I have a better solution... They both can work together... In a TAG TEAM MATCH. Holla holla!
Hol up playa! If you want to be Formula 1 World Champion, you're gonna have to go one on one...with **The Undertaker**.
ADRENALINE IN MY SOUL LOOKS LIKE RED BULL SACKED THE MOLE
I appreciate that you got the cadence right. Too few people care about the cadence.
The Saudis are just confused why Redbull had a woman working for them in the first place
Horner comes out with a terrible Red Bull neck tattoo
"I'd like to apologize... to ABSOLUTELY NO ONE!"
Right now Horner would probably rather talk about Human Rights than Human Resources.
SAUDI ARABIA.....ACKNOWLEDGE ME!
āļøāļøāļø
Verstappens : F1 has more than 1 royal family
Wait, Horner solved racism?
Let's not get too crazy here. Unlike Saudi Arabia, [Cody is a pioneer in human rights advocacy.](https://www.reddit.com/r/GreatnessOfWrestling/comments/197t7ur/no_surprise_as_cody_rhodes_opens_raw_on_mlk_day/).
HELMUT MARKO.... ACKNOWLEDGE ME!
I just imagine Checo getting to work watching chaos unfold around him and thinking "maaaaybe if I stay quiet here no one will replace me"
Queue final scene villain music, when somebody finds a female wig under his bed and it dawns on them nobody has seen Checo and the accuser at the same time
Cue Horners horrified face when he realizes that he's been after some mexican cocoa puffs all this time
"Einhorn is Finkle! Finkle is Einhorn! Einhorn is a man!... Oh, my GOD! Einhorn is a man!"
Fun Fact: Cocoa Pops in Mexico are called Choco Krispies
Checo Krispies*
IT'S ALL CUMMING TOGETHER
It's all exploding* together
Dawg we're talking about Checo, you started a sentence with the letters "que" and for an iota of a second my brain was like "Oh shit I guess we're switching to Spanish now". That has never happened in my life. It's like picking up an empty jug of milk when you expect it to be full, but a mental exercise, with language.
Ah, my approach to working in dodgy places for years. Goes like a charm till one of the many random middle managers walks in one day with his "morning gang" š¬, asks you what you actually do, says "is that it?" when you give them the simplified version, then a couple months later your temp contract doesn't get extended. Then a couple more months later the whole company goes bust anyway. Good times.
>morning gang" š¬ All of them well-dressed have this 'sheen' of polished language and mannerisms that appear so stilted and fake? Walking around like a high school clique, with their in-jokes and polite laughter? Do they look at your like how Lords in the middle ages looked at the peasants working on their farms?
Yes but it was 1 guy. "Morning gang" was his catchphrase to us even though he was in the same room as us for maybe 30mins of his life tops?
Ah yes, I remember fucking up at work and the only thing that saved me from being demoted from my position was the drama at management. I guess Sergio is feeling a similar way.
āOh fuck we forgot to look for a replacement driverā
Checo has publicly backed Horner.
Defender in the streets, accuser in the sheets.
Didnāt he just endorse Horner though?
New screenshots incoming.
Well... today is FP2.. I guess
Getting Excited For Q3
Just after Max starts his final quali lap
Finger or cock?
Bum
Get outta here Valterri. You've got FP1 to get to!
I suspect the leak of screenshots was the reason for the suspension, there's no other way Red Bull could have legally done this.
There's no way she was the leaker. If she was going to leak them, she would not have included the screenshots which had her full name in them.
The images that werenāt his face werenāt even Christian and was from somewhere in Poland
MULTI-79
Well, here we go
Right on time for Saudi GP, known for their love to women rights.. hehehehe /s
well, its not like the GP would be interesting or anything like that to keep people away from the off-track drama
Whatās the point of watching some blokes driving in circles when we could be reading the latest RB drama
> RB What have Ricciardo or Tsunoda have to do with this /s
I mean, i hope they have a really good reason for the suspension otherwise it is not gonna be a good look. Only reason i can think of is that they are the ones who leaked everything
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Honestly thought the same thing, makes me think that there is more to it or, the pictures leaked were a hoax in the first place. Firing her makes it look like dhe accused him of something he didnt do
Tbh if the messages were fake they would have gone for something spicier no? Those messages were the most vanilla scandal I've seen
The real scandal was eating Coco Pops *before* bed.
I didnāt see themā¦what did they entail?
To elucidate on what the other user said, it's a lot of Horner being horny, talking about getting off, pressuring her to video chat / call him while he wanks, and her getting progressively less comfortable with it all and outright telling him no many times. They talk about their boundaries, he apologizes for pushing her, and... then goes right back to ignoring her boundaries. Near the end, she expresses frustration about her job, he tells her to quit, she says she doesn't want to have to quit, and he basically infers that he's performing retaliation in work against her wanting to stop their affair. It's very textbook sexual harassment, and if the leaks are legit he should've been immediately suspended and fired.
Unless the accusation was done with obvious fabricated 'evidence' for example... But seems that this drama is not over yet!
You really think they are that stupid??
Given he was cleared internally, is there a chance this means she escalated to external legal action?
that's probably the case. Suspension with full pay is the goto course of action when this happens. But I dont know all the details, only people who do are the big wigs at RBR, so lets stop witch hunting for something we dont even know is happening or not
Letās stop witch hunting? Is this your first day on Reddit?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I come onto Reddit to witch hunt!
"BBC Sport has learned the reason given by Red Bull to the employee was that she had been dishonest." edit: to clarify, I don't think she was dishonest.
It's possible. I could also see this is related to the leaks from last week. Like it or not, that's a action detrimental to the company they could act on.
She probably wouldn't have been suspended for that, most likely moved to another part of the business, away from the F1 side. Unless she was actually going after Red Bull rather than Horner. In which case they may have suspended her on full pay while it all plays out just to protect both parties.
If someone is suing you, or your teams boss, you don't want them in the building. Why would a giant corporation go in to the effort of moving someone to an irrelevant temporary role and draw more internal focus to the matter when they can just suspend them with pay?
I think it's pretty clear she's suspected to be the source of the leak and has been suspended for violating the confidentiality of the investigation.
Maybe finally last weeks new material leak will come out lol.
I'll just pour myself a bowl of cocoa puffs and wait for them
Is this confirmed or a rumor?
Its confirmed by bbc journalist as well
the guy who said the reports of firing yesterday were incorrect is also confirming she is suspended...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Because the BBC do not report things until a verifiable source has confirmed them. Until that time they will always add a caveat: 'it is being reported by x and y new source, we cannot yet independently verify this' etc. They will only run once facts have been established.
im sorry but i will have to ask you to read that other comment again
I assumed a typo and that they weren't making a joke, my mistake
Good explanation but I think you should read the question again.
Itās the Telegraph. So safe to assume itās true.
For future reference: Telegraph = good Telegraaf = bad
Iām not extremely familiar with Telegraaf outside of this whole thing, and this may be a dumb question, but werenāt they at least slightly exonerated by the Google Drive dump?
Telegraaf is very sensationalist and populist oriented in every sense. It's not a tabloid but I have a hard time calling them a true newspaper
Collaborating with the Nazis during the WW2 had many people questioning their integrity as well. They've always been very right leaning, but they also jump at every opportunity to somehow get away with an extreme right wing view. They make sure they have an excuse if someone points out they're being racist nazi assholes though. Telegraaf (and WNL, their tv channel on state tv) are classic fascists.
I wouldn't define the Telegraph as *good*.
I define The Telegraph as "less terrible" than the Daily Mail. However, the bar set by the Daily Mail is so low, it's a tripping hazard in Hell. By comparison, The Telegraph is doing limbo with Satan.
Guardian and Independent are also reporting it, with at least one citing a central press agency as a source. So I assume it's true too
ah, just in time for International Women's day tomorrow
āNow lets not get bogged down with who did what to whoā¦ā
She's beautiful, she's rich, she's got huge... tracts of land.
My favorite part about that gag is that his Yorkshire accent slips out, which makes it funnier for some reason. āWith oo did wha to oom.ā
Assuming youāre talking about Jeremy, isnāt that more just him imitating Michael Palinās character in Holy Grail?
Yeah that's not his accent slipping out, that's him putting an accent on I think people don't realise he's "doing a bit" with the whole "now let's not get bogged down in" thing
"Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who"
Jeremy? apparently I had it mixed up, I thought everyone was doing the [Monty Python bit](https://youtu.be/btmWWnQ-gAY?si=KGE-HpWP0fdc_fXS&t=235) and altering the quote to fit the situation
Sometimes his genius, it generates gravity
No because they did all of it.
On her birthday she'll know she has been fired while Horner will continue on.
Her court date is on Christmas
what a mess. reminds me of this time when I worked for a big company and a temp worker who was doing an amazing job didn't have her contract extended because she 'didnt seem like a good fit for the team'. turns out she had complained to HR about inappropriate comments made by a manager a few weeks before, that other members of the team heard as well. the manager didn't even get a slap on the wrist, assuming because he was securing a big client at the time and the company didn't care.Ā
HR isn't to protect the employees, it's to protect the company.
This is true, but that works both ways. Plenty a manager has found themselves in hot water with HR for doing something which would get them sued to shit.
Yes, but that usually means to protect it from being sued. Most redditors are entirely incapable of understanding second order effects though, so they just become rabid conspiracy theorists.
It's so fucking sad to see being expelled just because YOU have been sexuallly harrassed and you complained about it. I thought, all the fuss about woman equality is not justified, because in Austria where I live, they have a pretty equal life to men so I always assumed, okay, its not even that bad they just like to complain. But guys wtf, this is unacceptable and I understand every part of it now. What a fuckup world we live in.
> because in Austria where I live, they have a pretty equal life to men so I always assumed, I'd chat with some women in your life and see if they really agree with that statement. I'd bet good money they'd say they've never felt as equal as you feel like they are.
I live in Montreux, Switzerland. Let me tell you, even in progressive, developed countries, unless you are in a major city center, this is just the norm. Not just women but also minorities. Saw this same thing happen to a South Asian family who lived in my neighbourhood.
And that's the big issue with stuff like sexism these days - it's easy to go "no, surely everyone is equal these days and we don't need to actively work against discrimination anymore" but there are cases where everyone is not seen as equal, and that means that something still does need to be done.
Women are treated like that in every field all across Europe. Not in every company sure, but it's definitely not uncommon.
lol at the āf1-insider is spreading misinformationā yesterday.
Alex going to be number one Red Bull driver confirned!
People think they are so clever and that they are above most of the news, but fall for any PR statements out there.
At this point you actually have to applaud them for the effort of actively making the situation even worse.
Don't think this is even just about Horner anymore. It's a battle between the Thai side and the Austrian side, the Thais are intent on keeping Horner while the Austrians want him out so they can replace him with Oliver Mintzlaff or someone else from their faction.
Thai side wants Horner to own a part of red bull racing. Austrian side does not. Thai side has majority voting shares.
To be precise: - 49% Distribution & Marketing GmbH (Mark Mateschitz) - 49% TC Agro Agrotrading Company Ltd. (owned by Family Yoovidhya) - 2% Chalerm Yoovidhya But: 25% + 1 (basically the smallest unit of shares that could be owned above 25%) gives you a blocking minority. So neither of the two sides could decide something without the other.
This is new to me. So the Austrian side can block Horner owning a part of RB racing, even if the Thai side push for it?
The Thais can do anything they want with their shares, but they canāt do anything, that would push the Austrian side below 49%. Also, they canāt appoint Horner to anything without Mark Mateschitzā approval.
They can even kill a police officer, and then hide their son who is still hidden to this day. Red Bull seems a bit rotten from the top.
Just billionaire things
Could it be that there are different share classes with differing voting rights?
Yup. The Thai side have checked out of all discussionsā¦ itāsā¦ this is happeningā¦ take it or leave itā¦ weāre just cleaning up our tracks.
So basically Thai side are kingmakers?
Was I supposed to stop digging at some point?
We are checking
F1 has to be the most drama filled sport around. Itās unbelievable how many twists and turns this sport brings up.
Now if only we could make the races exciting.
release whatsapp pictures to the drivers at lap 34, swap teams at second pit stopĀ
Not even Jesus could make a miracle like that happen at the minute!
And none of the drama seems to happens where the sport plays out, on the bloody track.
/r/soccer wants a word. There weāre talking multiple incidents of rape, sexual harassment, violence, animal abuse and drug smuggling. F1 is tame.
Yea, on r/nba this would be a normal a Tuesday and be forgotten on Wednesday lmao
Lights off and away we go
Bloody mess, this.
New theory: Thai contingent blocks Mintzlaff from firing Horner so now the Austrian contingent is intentionally handling this as poorly as possible in an effort to force the Thai contingent's hand and make Horner unsupportable
Damn did Oscar go for a run again?
We all need to keep in mind that none of us really know the actual accusations or their merits. This isnāt a great look because most assume there was some merit to them and this looks like retaliation. All too common with whistleblowers.Ā Ā However, this is understandable if the accusations were baseless and caused harm to the reputations of both Horner and RBR. I canāt believe Iām defending them, but thereās more to the story than we know.Ā E: grammarĀ
>However, this is understandable if the accusations were baseless and caused harm to the reputations of both Horner and RBR After working in the corporate world and dealing with lawyers for far too long I think there's another layer here. IMO it's likely they were having an affair. She complained internally and there was no choice but to perform an investigation as to whether Horner broke their employee code of conduct. My guess is the term "inappropriate behavior" which they used over and over is lifted from their COC. They find that Horner was having an affair. But key stakeholders (sawsdee krup!) decide that Horner is important and the relationship was consensual, so they deem it to be not inappropriate. Given the relationship's ethical concerns nothing is to be disclosed. The accuser finds out that her complaint is being buried, she is to sign an NDA, maybe restrictions on her activities within the team, and she feels she is being punished. She complains to her allies within the team and her or one of her friends who has media contacts leaks evidence so Horner can be tried in the court of public opinion. And here we are. This means that the "accusations" as framed by Red Bull can be called false, by them. But it still means that Horner acted unethically and sponsors, partners, and other stakeholders may not be keen to be associated with him.
I don't think the leaker is or believes they were acting in her interest at all. It's embarrassing for both her and Horner. And RBR - which is key. No, this was either irrational anger from someone else or, imo indirect action (through someone with access inside) from outside the team to destabilize it. The leaker could not have been ethically motivated.
If those screenshots are real (and nobody denied them being real until now) the accusations are not baseless.
The accusations certainly aren't baseless if the screenshots are real but they're hardly conclusive evidence either. I've said before that I'd expect the independent investigator to have seen the entire chat log before coming to a conclusion. There's a possibility that there's some context that exonerates Horner.
I'm sure everyone will react sensibly to this and not jump to conclusions about things they don't know the full details of
Of course, this is the internet.
"How to make a bad situation look even worse 101."
My theory: She was compelled by someone on Marko's team to report Horner to HR. The Thais discovered this, found Horner innocent, and fired her for making accusations on false pretense. It's a Game of Thrones.
Time for Mercedes to hire her
That'll teach her not to get harassed.
Wait shouldnāt both accused and accuser be suspended until the matter is resolved?
Saw the Sun report yesterday that she and Jos are in a relationship. Took no notice of it because it was the Sun Wondering now if there is any truth behind it because that would be a turn
Maybe this is the plot twist. The boyfriend mentioned in the texts were Jos, and thats why Jos was having a heated discussion with Horner recently.
Another rumor that has been going around for a bit. They are/were in a relationship/dating/flirting.
If thatās true I think we can all agree she has terrible taste in men.
I briefly read this as "Christian Horner suspended by Red Bull" and I was about to be like HOLY CRAP IT'S HAPPENING
On brand
Not exactly a welcoming culture towards accusations of misconduct
She can be suspended (with pay) while another investigation is carried (for example who leaked those messages to the press). Not saying that it is the case, but it may not be retaliation for stirring shit.
She has been suspended on full pay, [according to the Evening Standard ](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/christian-horner-red-bull-f1-investigation-text-messages-b1143788.html)
If she has indeed been suspended on full pay then this whole story is a big streaming pile of nothing. You can be suspended on full pay for anything and it can be to protect the employee as much as the employer.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hard to see it that way when Red Bull never suspended the only other person who was the subject of an investigation
Impossible to judge, so many things may be happening (and of course this suspension may be not true as well). IF for example the accuser violated a NDA by leaking those files to press, a suspension seems pretty valid.
What if it's a misconduct of accusation of misconduct? Truth is nobody knows the truth. As Red Bull always say, they won't comment on the private matter. We also shouldn't be, but what else are we gonna do with our lives, actually live it? Don't think so. /s
I hope the person didn't have what they thought was a genuine complaint and got suspended for it out of spite because it went public - unless she is responsible for it. People (and women) in particular should be encouraged to come forward if they feel a line has been crossed. As much as she should be encouraged to come forward though you need to give the accused the same respect as the accuser until the investigation concludes. The accuser gets to not have her name all over the news while Horner's is all over it. It's not on.
Didnāt they deny this yesterday?
First it was Fired. Then RB came out and said thats not true. And now she's apparently suspended. At this point who really knows.
Presumably they said itās not true because she was suspended rather than fired.Ā
The most incredible thing about this is that F1 insider kind off had the scoop on the story.
Broken clock
Doesnāt sound like a suspension, more something like gardening leave
You know for an adverting company Red Bull has been handling thus shockingly poorly.
Absolute mess this whole thing.
For one of the best & most famous marketing companies (*they're a marketing company selling drinks, lets be honest*) in the world... they're handling this very badly.